Arthur told John to leave the outlaw life behind and take care of his family. Abigail told John not to go after Micah and let it go. If John didn't kill Micah, Ross would have never been able to track him down. John killing Micah literally fucked up not only his life but his family life as well.
John is a fucking idiot but goddammit why is he still so lovable?
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I still don't understand how that entire segment was even possible when Micah and Dutch were literally right behind Arthur, on horseback pursuit.
What would you do Yea Forums? Your older brother was dying and he told you to leave the outlaw life and don't look back. He gets killed by the worst person imaginable. Would you avenge your brother's death or would you listen to your brother's last words and let it go?
Wtf are you on about? If anything micah and dutch were ahead not behind.
And john/arthur weren't running from micah or dutch. Did you just watch a playthrough on YouTube to something?
Definitely get revenge.
But your brother literally told you not to
How would Ross have known it was John? It could've been anyone.
So what? I'm supposed to watch the other faggot carry on with his life? Where's the justice in that? I'd rather watch him suffer and pay for what he did even if it risks destroying my life. We can't let god do all the work.
Dutch was actually a good man. Everything that went wrong was literally out of his control. The only bad thing he done was left Arthur and John to die but at that point he couldn't trust anyone
this was the most boring ending to the game imaginable.
John literally borrowed money from the blackwater gang with his real name.
Your brother literally died for YOU so YOU can take care of your family. If you listened to your brother you wouldn't have ruined your life. I mean yeah it sucks but sometimes you just have to let some shit go
Shut the fuck up, Javier.
>If John didn't kill Micah, Ross would have never been able to track him down
I'm sure if given enough time, he would've found John's huge ranch eventually.
It's true though. If Dutch was actually a bad guy, he would have shot John instead of Micah.
Wouldn't it made more sense for Micah to have been the rat since the start? If he only became a rat after Guarma, then how exactly did they agents know Dutch's moves before then?
>I gave you all I had
This is probably true. He definitely would have found him anyways but maybe John could have struck a deal with them since he left the life of crime behind (like Pearson maybe?)
This is the one thing I am still uncertain about. During this mission, Dutch wasn't like he was in RDR. Dutch seemed like he was still clinging onto that final shred of humanity he had left.
Arthur was not able to fully convince Dutch about Micah but he said enough to leave Dutch confused and uncertain, that is why he walked away before Arthur died. I'm sure during the 7 year skip, Dutch thought about it extensively and might have realized Arthur was right or he was just tired of Micah. But during the 4 year gap from the Epilogue to RDR, Dutch has a huge change of personality and I really want to see what happened there
I don’t understand why Sadie and Charles couldn’t have killed Micah themselves, they were both capable enough and they had much less to lose.
I don't understand why Arthur didn't spit in his mouth.
Well they already had that huge bounty on their heads from Blackwater and after the train robbery in Chapter 1, Leviticus Cornwall paid the agents to find the gang and assuming Cornwall has the big bucks, the agents stepped into high gear and did everything they could to find the gang. If you go back to Micah's camp near Strawberry, you can find a newspaper clipping of Dutch's bounty so it implies that Micah was considering the possibility of snitching.
That's the beauty of flawed characters. John could not have let himself stand around while he knew Micah was near. His ego and lust for revenge was too big for him to see reason
I'd have traded fewer missions for more open-ended missions, and I don't like how they drip-fed you the Dead Eye system, especially the initial auto-target Dead Eye feels like crap.
Clearly not that capable since they both get fucked up during the final fight
revenge is a fools game
He used his name on a loan
John paid off the loan in full though
The problem is that both everyone wanted John to settle down and become a regular civilian and John thought he wanted that too but they were all fucking wrong, despite his complaints, John loves the life of an outlaw, roaming the land, having adventures and killing assholes and couldn't leave it behind even if he tried.
The game even allows you to see this by allowing you to keep playing as John after the story is over. As far as the game cares, there are no more enemies that need to be dealt with or unfinished business, you should totally be capable of spending all your day doing shit in the farm with your family and yet, no one does that shit, everyone fucks off to explore the map and have adventures the first chance they get because, like John, they don't want to be a boringass farmer.
The actual happy ending would have been if John accepted he would never be the man Abigail wanted him to be and let her walk away with Jack while he spent the rest of his life as a wandering outlaw.
>just abandoning his wife and child
You're a terrible person.
Better than staying with his child and wife when he can't be the husband/father they need and does nothing but cause them suffering, to the point that his retardation ends up leading to their life being ruined again and his son becoming a murderous outlaw.
There is nothing terrible about realizing you aren't capable of making your loved ones happy and that all you do is cause everyone (yourself included) to feel miserable.
He can make them happy, but the gubmt won't let him.
No, he can't. He loves being the "heroic" outlaw too much to settle down and actually become a family man.
Just look how things play out during that bit in the epilogue where he is working in some farm and a bunch of thugs show up. Abigails begs him to not do anything about it because she is more than happy to be a mere bystander and allow others to get fucked as long as she can keep her family safe and happy, but John refuses because the justice boner he got from hanging around Dutch and his gang before everything went to shit makes him unable to just stand down and not play the hero or go on an adventure.
yeah then as the game goes on and she leaves he realizes he has a responsibility to live with the choices he's made in life
And then uses that logic to fuck up the nice life he got and ruin everything for everyone.
how so
the gubmnt would've found him regardless of the Micah hunt
elaborate
We have no way to be sure that would be the case but we do know that hunting Micah led to him popping up in their radar again.
Does Yea Forums like Jack and would you play RDR 3 if Jack was the protag?
No, and no.
He goes to hunt Micah because he feels like he has a responsibility to pay back his debt to Arthur and to make up for the fact that he chose to fuck off to save his life and be with his family, even if staying behind wouldn't have changed anything other than causing his death.
It has been a while but I remember him wording his decision to avenge Arthur as something he HAD to do rather than something he wanted to do.
The Wild Wets is fucking dead by the time RDR1 ends, there would be no point in a third game that continues his story.
I assume that if Rockstar decides to make a RDR3, they will choose to go back even more, maybe having it take place during the early years of the Dutch gang and end with the Blackwater heist.
>/pol/ still mad
Fucking pathetic incels kek stay seething white boy
I think the game is about John growing up and realizing where his responsibilities lie. Him going after Micah is just him doing one last thing before truly leaving the life behind. Then 1 happens.
But that's the problem, there will always be some "one last thing" to do because he loves the outlaw life way too much.
Like I said, I think the game hints at this by allowing you to play as John after the story is over, knowing you will fuck off to have adventures rather than stay home with your family.
>he loves the outlaw life way too much
Is this expressed heavily in the first game?
To be fair Ross probably would've eventually found Micah and ditch. They wouldn't have been able to be okay on that mountain forever
No, he wants to stay home and live a quiet life. 2's epilogue was him getting there. By the time he decided to settle down, Sadie tells him she found Micah and it sparks John to act. I think in 1 John secretly does want to confront Dutch about leaving him for dead. Just goes to show you can never escape the life, which is why 1's ending is tragic with Jack turning into an outlaw.
Pearson doesn't count as he was just a cook and considered a non-threat like the women.
Do you think GTA 6 will be able to have an emotional and thrilling conclusion like this did?
lol fuck no
Would you marry a whore Yea Forums?
>lifetime of amazing sex
yeah why not
Micah should have been a red herring, too obvious and too much of a hate sink. Abigail should have been the real traitor in an effort to give herself, John and Jack a shot at a normal life.
she's already a women, that's bad enough
>a women
It kinda seems that way Rockstar was originally going in that direction but chickened out in the last moment. The fact that she somehow managed to escape when Hosea got captured was a red flag right there
If they wanted to surprise you then it should have been a new and lovable character like Lenny or Hosea.
Maybe he thought dying of disease wasn’t a proper way for Micah to die
and he wouldn't even be alive if it wasn't for arthur, john owned it to him to avenge him
Sometimes, living life happily with those you care about despite what your enemies have done is the best revenge.
why
WE ALL HAD HER
>triangle to get on horsie
>bro what if.. what if like.. we made it the button to choke hold people
>haha fuck yeah do it
Rockstar leaves it open. You can make an argument for Abigail being one of the rats. She certainly had motive and the suspicious actions.
yeah I always thought it was her
Multiple rounds of lead to the face seems like proper end for a guy like Micah
too quick and easy
WORK YA DAMN NAG
>Reddit buzzwords
Sure showed him, kiddo
jailbreak segment was so stupid
I'm gonna borrow a classic Dutch line-
>"The poetry of it all..."
basically summing up both Arthur and John's character arcs. It's classic western story telling and I gotta hand it to that rap-scallion Dan Houser because RDR 1 and 2's stories are damn good, and should go down as classic westerns.
what are yellow inventory items?
stolen items?
always vengeance
>John can't draw for shit
kek'd
He ultimately loved Abigail more than the life.
kiss his dying lips and say "arthur I always loved u and after u die i will kiss u again and take ur clothes and satchel"
then play the epilogue as john
Speaking as someone who used to have Backpage in his favorites whores typically aren't very good at sex.
>Backpage
I'm talking about professionals.
Revenge
He can't be the protag in the third one because ww1 breaks out, and everyone was drafted
>outlaw who probably lives in a cave
>drafted
This game actually fucked Marston's character up. RDR1 had you believe he was a bad dude during the gang's heydays, but in fact he was an effeminate little bitchboy from the very beginning to the moment he was set on his quest to find out where Dutch is in said first game.
>murderer, thief, accomplice to torture and mass murder
>good guy
yeah I'm sure you could survive wolf attacks and gunfights back then, not to mention jail and getting shot, then taking out a bandit camp on your own because your token blackie and clamie got injured
You misinterpret.
You miss the point.
the first game never painted him as a bad dude, just a dude part of a bad gang. first thing he does in the game is get shot and left for dead
The first game painted a picture that they were a gang who were fucking shit up, not the bumbling failure-train that was shown in RDR2. Also Marston was like a fucking saint and a dumbfuck who needed constant saving and lecturing.
I agree. It was pretty shitty to leave John and Arthur but at that point he was delusional and thought they had betrayed him.
I can't see 2 as a classic. I knew #1 was as I was playing it, but 2 seemed to lose so much focus after Chapter 2 that it didn't regain until right at the end. There was no real antagonist. No one lasts for more than one or two missions. Dutch isn't even acting "crazy" but all the characters go around saying he is but we're barely given a reason to believe it. The game feels rushed somehow, even with 8 years of development.
>The first game painted a picture that they were a gang who were fucking shit up
Not that guy but you could not be more wrong, did you even play 1?
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He portrays it pretty much exactly how it played out in 2.
They never had a prime time. They constantly refer back to misadventures. You're fucking faggots.
I think Dutch just gave up hope. At the beginning of RDR2 he tells Arthur and Hosea that as long as they're with him he will be just fine and he's confident things will work out. When Hosea dies the expression on Dutch's face is a "you can actually pinpoint the exact moment his heart breaks" type look. Later on when Arthur is dying Dutch honestly just looks terrified.
I think when you see Dutch on the mountain he's at the tail end of a huge depressed phase. He's let himself go while Micah by contrast looks healthier than ever. This is shown in how he acts too. He defends John because even though he was convinced John had betrayed him he still loved him on some level.
In RDR, he keeps fighting even though he knows there's nothing left for him to fight for and his mission is lost as well as the only people he ever considered family. His final speech to John reveals as much.
Damn this is actually shown pretty well with how fucking boring all the farm work in the epilogue is too
Yes and yes but I wouldn't like it.
>If I find out you're lying to me Reyes, you'll really see the man I used to be
Nice ''proof'' faggot.
>Dutch isn't even acting "crazy" but all the characters go around saying he is but we're barely given a reason to believe it.
You sure are a brainlet. They start by demonstrating the wavering faith. You'll also notice him mumbling to go himself and questioning everyone loyalty at camp. The boat incident is the pre-cursor to him losing control. And they have two antagonists until the O'Driscolls are taken out. Pinkertons are a threat from the very start as well, and they remain a threat.
>game feels rushed somehow
You're an absolute moron if you actually think this.
In the first video he doesn't even deny that they robbed people
>Dutch didn't see it that way
When talking to Javier he even tells him it was all an excuse to hurt people and the whole gang knew it.
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timestamp 16:10
>painted a picture that they were a gang who were fucking shit up
but the whole story of 2 is the gang just fucking shit up everywhere they go? And killing shit loads of innocents?
Not that poster but this dawned on me a little while after I finished RDR back in the day. How boring the game became when you just went back to being a rancher, and how much you missed that boredom after having to die.
F
The whole point of 2 is you're experiencing their downfall from the get-go.
which is a retcon of RDR1
Yeah that's why 2 was so great because it portrayed it exactly how you just explained it, and then 1 John had finally realized it all, hence him explaining it in the videos you just posted.
Like this guy said It was obvious they were all pieces of shit masquerading under Dutch's bullshit philosophies as early as chapter 2, everyone, even Hosea and the women were all gigantic pieces of shit just robbing innocents. All hypocrites. That's why in my opinion, it enhances 1's story and how far John has come as a character.
fuck no I hate him
Explain
RDR3 as Mac Callander
>In 1899, the Van der Linde gang attempted to rob a ferry in the town of Blackwater. However, things turned sour and both Callander brothers were injured. Davey was rescued and taken with the gang as they fled for the mountains, although Mac was separated from them and had to escape on his own.
Mac was eventually caught and killed by Agent Milton of the Pinkerton National Detective Agency, who would later claim that Mac was "shot up" by the time they caught him and that his death was “slow but merciful”.
>whores typically aren't very good at sex
dude I fucked a native chick who had 4 kids with 4 different fathers. I thought she'd be a cock thirsty nympho or some shit. She was absolutely awful like every other chick I banged.
How about you read a couple of posts back. No need to go about in circles.
Reminder that in the timeskip between Arthur dying and the epilogue, John had shot someone dead just because he looked at him funny
No it isn't you fucking moron.
If you're referring to this post you've already been proven wrong by multiple people dumbass
Instead of responding to the completely out of place insults, this is what I mean- We never see any escalation. He keeps saying things about the gangs "loyalty" but until the near-end when you rescue John before Dutch told you to, what lack of loyalty is ever displayed? Sure Dutch is imbalanced, borderline personality or manic depressive or whatever, and the trolley crash implies that it accelerated his mental issues, but what instigates his mistrust? Micah is such an apparent snake that Dutch trusting him while losing trust in everyone else just baffles me. It felt like a forced conflict. Micah literally does nothing but transparently kiss ass to Dutch.... And he believes it? The O'Driscolls were close to being real antagonists, but they disappear for almost the entire game besides the assault on Shady Belle, which while a dramatic fight, didn't have any bearing on the rest of the game, until you watch Colm hang (which was a great mission tho desu).
I'm saying the game felt 'rushed' because this feels like it was a first take on a script that didn't get revised. How many antagonists did the whole game get? Colm O'Driscoll and his gang, Micah, the Greys and Braithwaites, Angelo Bronte (really thought that story thread was going somewhere besides suddenly ending after 3 missions), the Guarma sidetrack, Milton and the Pinkertons, Leviticus Cornwall (such a wasted character, he should've been a foil to Dutch, instead he's relevant for three missions in the entire game, and barely says anything).
Dutch doesn't make sense because he is fucking insane.
Micah sucked his dick when they were together and supported his retarded plans so he overlooked his obvious evilness while Arthur and John constantly criticized his retarded ideas so he considered them traitors despite being part of his gang for years.
wow it's like Micah was manipulating him or something
you might want to play the game again because there's obviously a lot you've missed
You missed the point of the whole conversation.
No he didn't, you just missed the point of the game entirely.
Reminder that Rufus is a good boy.
Dumbass John is a bad guy, because he murdered and robbed innocents that was the whole point of that conversation. It doesn't matter if he knew or not he still did bad things. That's the point, you're retarded.
I want to play as Davey.
No shit he was a bad guy. Do you know what redemption means?
Christ how can someone be this dense..
I'm always impressed with you fanboys. The CONVERSATION was about whether or not John was a bad guy. I posted proof that he was a bad man. You are agreeing with me on this. I never commented on the quality of the game or anything. I just informed the user that yes John was a bad guy. How do you live your life this stupid?
Just give me a pulpy Landon Ricketts game set in the prime of his life. I'm sick of all the 'oh no the west is dying and the pinkertons are after us because we need our red dead redemption, too' stuff.
>protag from GTA-sryle game is bad goy
No fucking shit.
Go sit in the corner.
Oh and you can still end it with the Blackwater Heist if you really need to tie it into Dutch's gang, as he was there too.
John is a bad man trying to do good
Arthur is a good man forced to do bad
>forced
driven
I hate the way Sadie says John.
>The game was flashback missions to WW1
You just made it more kino
why are YOU not letting go and keep trying to explain the rationality behind an emotional situation to someone who clearly values emotion over logic?
why are you obsessed with this, clearly stoking something that could lead to negative ramifications later down the line, despite him telling you that the decision is already made?
no.
both are just men trying to do right, while right is fluid and unattainable, because the people who decide what is right are supremely selfish.
nobody in the usa was drafted for WW1.
the us were barely involved in the fighting.
THAT’S THE WAY IT IS
I keep seeing this webm posted but I don't understand what it's implying.
It's input lag.
>nobody in the usa was drafted for WW1.
wew
Micah and dutch went in the cave to get the gold John and Arthur were running from the cops
How the fuck could you not understand it?
Eat my shit.
I think taking the Blackwater munny is what cemented John's fate.
C'MON!
John literally lived less than a mile away from blackwater. You can't seriously believe that Ross and co. wouldn't have just stumbled upon him at random
this
that
It's like how taxi drivers fucking hate driving and are generally pretty shit at it. I'm sure that they just get sick of doing it and put as little effort into it as possible.
Seriously, why would you buy a ranch within spitting distance of the place where there was a gigantic bounty on your head? Hiding in plain sight doesn't work when they know what you look like, John.
>Native
There's your problem
Enjoy your bannoc bum loser
Can't wait until this fucking garbage game hits PC to see these threads fucking die, Jesus you're all faggots.
>Go to the bank to get a loan
>Use his real name after giving an alias like a retard
>"HUR IT'S BECAUSE HE SHOT SOME SMELLY HOMELESS MAN ONTOP OF A MOUNTAIN THAT THE FEDS FOUND HIM"
I found fertility statue and other random shit. Do I just sell them?
where the fuck is Charles postgame
I saw him once, and now I have his feather and he's nowhere to be found
POOR JOHN
bro did you watch the credits bro?
he still hangs around post-game
he just randomly appears at different times
So he doesn't go to Canada?
For the love of christ please no more Vanderlin gang shit just do something else like Revolver
not yet anyway
it glitches out for everyone
The bounty was gone wasn't it? Otherwise I feel like they would have scooped him up for a cool $5000 bounty or whatever it was. But yeah, that's one of those video game things that doesn't make much sense either way.