Is there something I'm missing with this game? I was promised the greatest game of all time but what I got was an average, honestly kind of bland experience that isn't even the best Zelda, let alone video game period.
I'll admit I wasn't around when the game released but shouldn't a game be weighed on its merits relative to the medium as a whole rather than simple nostalgia?
Nah, it should be weighted based on how revolutionary it was for its time and how much influence it has today.
Majora’s Mask is better
>how revolutionary it was for its time
>how much influence it has today
Both of these things are independent of the game itself. How are they legitimate means of weighing a game's merits in 2019? Games like Daytona USA and Virtua-Racing were revolutionary and highly-influential and STILL fun to play.
>shouldn't a game be weighed on its merits relative to the medium as a whole
No
I agree. I think that it's good, but not THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST. For some reason, this apparently makes me a shitposter.
Nope. All games should be reviewed in a vacuum.
It's certainly no masterpiece
Not even the best RPG of '98.
pretty image
>Both of these things are independent of the game itself.
No they're not, they're directly tied to the quality of the game. A shitty game is going to be forgotten about with zero legacy to speak of.
>Games like Daytona USA and Virtua-Racing were revolutionary and highly-influential and STILL fun to play.
>implying OoT isn't
The cult of Nintendo controls the narrative.
An amazing game is amazing regardless of context. If you have to play a game when it first came out for it to be considered the greatest of all time, then it's not actually that good.
>racing games
>fun to play
lol
>No they're not, they're directly tied to the quality of the game.
How is the core game changed by awareness of its place in history?
They're exhilarating. PURE gameplay. Certainly more fun than wandering through a barren hyrule-field.
Because it's the only argument he has
yeah boi
OOT being considered the greatest game of all time is a testament to how shit the taste of 90% of the populace is. I can think of 10 better games in 1998 alone.
I wonder how many people would call OoT the GOAT if they had never read about it being the best in magazines or on the internet. I feel like that influences a lot of peoples' opinion on it.
And to many people it's still an amazing game that holds up extremely well. You're free to think the game is bad because it's old and you didn't grow up with it, but don't try to subject others who still enjoy it to this day to that same opinion with just that.
Because it was good enough to deserve its place in history to begin with. It didn't somehow sneak into first place while nobody was paying attention.
>I feel like that influences a lot of peoples' opinion on it.
you did figure that on your own? i'm shocked,it's like that's not even the point of reviewers themselves
that's a good one. not to knock people who enjoy racing games, but it's funny that you put them on a pedestal when they are among the bottom tiers of gaming genres
>Because it was good enough to deserve its place in history to begin with
Because at the time it deserved its place. But last I checked, it isn't the late 90s anymore and gaming has radically advanced.
I mean its ur uneducated opinion. Ur entitles to it.
>You're free to think the game is bad because it's old
I never said that. My favorite Zelda is older than OoT. You're strawmanning. I'm saying that "it's good because it was new and innovative at the time" is not an argument for a game's quality right now in the present.
>THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
All that means is most people find it good, or at least inoffensive enough, to be ranked higher than other games that might have slightly less appeal. OoT might be the highest rated game of all time, but the vast majority of people wouldn't say it's the favorite game of all time, and that's all that really matters.
>I mean its ur uneducated opinion. Ur entitles to it.
ironic
You think people are going to give enough of a shit to retroactively go back and rerate every game ever made every year just so some rando might have a chance at feeling validated by seeing his favorite game closer to the top?
K, list em.
It's pretty amazing how zoomers always have objectively wrong opinions. Why do we listen to them again?
Then why the fuck do OoTfags never shut the fuck up about it being the best?
>Then why the fuck do insertpopulargameherefags never shut the fuck up about it being the best?
I expect people to be realistic and adapt their opinions as they age. For example I fully acknowledge that Bionicle (a toyline I lived and breathed for the majority of my childhood) has a fucking retarded story despite thinking otherwise as a kid, but can still appreciate and look fondly on it largely due to nostalgia. I don't blindly claim Bionicle is the best thing since sliced bread.
wow, it's this fucking thread again.
Kill yourself faggot
you just have bad taste, it's a fact given how you think there's a better zelda
No. What you are saying is impossible to do. Ocarina was better in its time than game modern game was in ITS time. Thats how art is judged. Dont like it? Then dont critique art. There is a process, and there is rules to critique. Your shitty uneducated opinion doesnt count.
I'll take this opportunity to point out that you (the """boomer""") are the one acting like a child and not addressing the OP directly.
>I expect people to conform to my small and insignificant view of reality.
Fuck off.
It's pretty much just nostalgia.
Half Life.
Star Craft.
Panzer Dragoon Saga.
Metal Gear Solid.
Theif.
Grim Fandago.
Radiant Silvergun.
Soul Caliber.
Baldur's Gate.
Imagine choosing to remain this willfully ignorant.
Good taste.
It seems like many people on this board figured out their opinion 20 years ago and has vowed to never change them
People can appreciate things for different reasons, user. Yes, OoT is old. That doesn't mean people can't still claim it's the best for the impact it's had on the industry or the fact that they could just still really enjoy it today. It is a solid game, even by today's standards.
I played OoT in full for the first time in 2012 and liked it a lot. The game has some issues (it underestimates the player's ability to grapple with 3D space in its puzzle solving and navigation, with the Water Temple being a great exception) but it's a remarkably memorable and well-paced game. I started with the series with A Link to the Past in the early 2000s but even though I came to it quite late (and with many other Zelda games already under my belt including a couple 3D ones) I still found a lot to appreciate in OoT. It's definitely not just nostalgia. Sometimes you just don't like things as much as other people.
You obtuse retard, HOW does a game's impact or legacy alter the core game itself when time keeps marching on, and new, better games are released constantly? And I have no problem with OOT's age, my favorite console is the Saturn which was completely and utterly DEAD by 1998. Hell I even like games from the late 70s like Galaxian.
>Thats how art is judged. Dont like it? Then dont critique art. There is a process, and there is rules to critique.
>Ocarina was better in its time than game modern game was in ITS time.
But it wasn't, there were better games released in 1998 alone, see Let's use computers as an example. The Commodore 64 is the best selling computer of all time and was massively influential in familiarizing the public with the concept of computers. Does that mean it's the BEST computer of all time? By your logic it is.
Because the core game is what gave it that legacy and impact to begin with, why is that so hard for you to understand?
Not even an RPG.
None of those games, however great they were, broke the ground that zelda broke. It still influences games today. Every action adventure is dependant upon what oot did.
Star craft? Its good but in the end its just warcraft in space. Half life is just a really good shooter (really good), but nothing more. Halo, metroid prime and half life 2 where much better games for their time.
Metal gear solid? Are u smoking crack? That game series killed an entire genre. Its the pinnacle of overrated and dated game design. Everything from being wayyy too reliant on ur radar to the crappy "tactics" controls, to the cutscenes which where longer than the game play... Jesus. Not to mention it influenced jack shit. No one dares adapt that shitty gameplay.
>Because the core game is what gave it that legacy and impact to begin with
In 1998, back when it was mechanically SUPERIOR to its contemporaries. But it's not 1998 anymore. Games have superseded it in every facet of its design. It is now INFERIOR to many of its contemporaries in the medium. While I definitely understand reminiscing on its place in the history of video games, claiming it is the end-all-be-all of video games sounds like blatant nostalgia blindness.
What ground did OOT break exactly? It's structure is lifted directly from A Link to the Past. And at any rate, what does "breaking ground" matter after the fact when what you're left with at the end of the day is a game that, while once having represented the pinnacle of the medium, is far outclassed by other, newer games?
>Games have superseded it in every facet of its design
I honestly disagree with this. Not even more recent Zelda games have superseded it in design. They built off it, sure, but they also sacrificed things along the way.
Can you explain what is so superior about modern games compared to OoT and why it matters so much that OoT should be considered inferior?
This
Nobody is claiming it's the be all end all of video games just because it has the highest metacritic score. Nobody is claiming it's the be all end all of video games for any reason. It is simply generally considered the best for a wide variety of reasons, which ultimately means absolutely nothing when it comes to individual preference. Most people might say OoT is currently the best video game of all time, but those same people likely have very different video games that they'd claim as their personal best. Why does it bother you so much what the modern consensus is?
At the time there was nothing else like it. Just controlling your character and moving around the world was so amazing that it had to be labeled as the best.
>Just controlling your character and moving around the world was so amazing that it had to be labeled as the best.
You act like this was new in 1998.
> Why does it bother you so much what the modern consensus is?
I'm not bothered, I'm mystified. I went into the game being told it was the best game ever made and expected an experience that reflected it and FUCK did I want it to. But I just didn't see what other people saw in it, and still don't. It's a fine game, but I can't fathom how you can consider it the best game ever made apart from pure, simple, nostalgia.
Who the fuck cares, you insolent basedboy.
>It's structure is lifted directly from A Link to the Past
Because that game is 2D and OoT is 3D. It's easily the best 2D to 3D adaptation from that era.
>You act like this was new in 1998.
Compare how OoT controls to Tomb Raider or Mega Man Legends.
Why are there so many OoT bitching threads on Yea Forums lately? Is this site completely run by Zoomers now?
Based on your logic the best car of all time is being made every single year, because the technology is always improving, but if you ask anyone what the best car of all time is they will always think back to nostalgia or revolutionary concepts.
>You act like this was new in 1998.
Not new, but the greatest and 10x better than anything similar.
>nostalgia
Or, you know, people just disagree with you. It's okay to dislike things. You don't need to invoke nostalgia to justify yourself.
This is Panzer Dragoon Saga. It was released almost a full year before Ocarina of Time on the Sega Saturn. Notice the full 3D movement, towns, villagers with dynamic (fully voiced acted) dialog, and explorable buildings. Ignore the hitching, it's just my capture card)
Specific examples or fuck off trolling faggot
There's also no combat or interaction on the level of OoT (or TR and MML) in those on foot segments.
When it comes to video games, there is only one certainity. And that's OOT, Chrono Trigger & FF6 being listed at the top of every given list
Nice goalpost moving.
>Just controlling your character and moving around the world was so amazing that it had to be labeled as the best.
I posted a game that did that a year earlier.
Nobody played Panzer Dragoon Saga back then. OoT has better controls anyway.
>Nobody played Panzer Dragoon Saga back then.
That doesn't illlegitimize it.
>OoT has better controls anyway.
No it doesn't?
It was basically considered an open world game at the time and you know how much normies eat that shit up.
It's inevitable that the old will be overrun with the new. These people didn't grow up with OoT and video games have become so sophisticated and flashy today that they don't understand its appeal or how important it was.
It will only get worse.
>that they don't understand its appeal or how important it was.
I understand perfectly how important it was and can see its appeal. That doesn't mean I have to blindly subscribe to the retarded notion that OOT is the best game ever.
Zoomer opinions are literally irrelevant. Cope.
What is with Yea Forums boomers' obsession with age?
>That doesn't illlegitimize it.
Yes it does. If nobody played the game how would they know walking in towns was so great?
>No it doesn't?
Oh come on. Don't pretend the ability to walk around in towns in PDS is comparable to how smooth OoT controls.
It would be disingenuous to not acknowledge the influence the game had on the industry, the way it stacked up to its competition at release, and how it has aged. OoT arrived at the forefront of 3d, so no shit it hasn't aged as gracefully as late 2d games or 3d games released 5 years later. But it's this very reason it was also so influential. Nothing played like this game at the time, and it was replicated and expanded upon over and over again since.
>Yes it does.
so if not playing a game illegitimizes its success does that mean I can call OoT shit because I never played it, or any nintendo game for that matter?
Ok, then don't. Nobody is forcing you. Again, you ask people what their favorite game is and it won't be OoT for the vast majority. OoT is just the least controversial consensus for best based on the ratings it accumulated and the significance it holds. That doesn't mean its everyone's favorite game of all time nor that you even have to subscribe to the notion that it's the best. There's no point getting hung up over it.
>Yes it does.
Does the context of what a game is actually have THAT much of an influence on how you see it? What a fucking poser you must be.
>Don't pretend the ability to walk around in towns in PDS is comparable to how smooth OoT controls.
OOT runs at 20 fps, PDS runs at 30. It quite literally is smoother than OOT.
Isn't that how Yea Forums works?
Panzer Dragoon Saga had an extremely limited print run in America on a console that was unsuccessful and was at the end of the systems life. The point I'm making is that only a select few people got to play the game in 1998 and therefor it is irrelevant when considering the reception of the game in 1998.
>Does the context of what a game is actually have THAT much of an influence on how you see it?
See above.
>OOT runs at 20 fps, PDS runs at 30. It quite literally is smoother than OOT.
That is only tangentially related to controls.
>therefor it is irrelevant when considering the reception of the game in 1998.
Oops I worded that retardedly, by "the game" I mean OoT.
>The point I'm making is that only a select few people got to play the game in 1998 and therefor it is irrelevant when considering the reception of the game in 1998.
Outside of 1998 and from someone who wasn't even alive back then, what does that matter?
I was 15 when it came out, I had it, and I didn't like it. LttP and LA (and ALBW) for life
if you don't find TLoZ impressive today it's probably because an entire industry spent 20 years trying to replicate it since
>The point I'm making is that only a select few people got to play the game in 1998 and therefor it is irrelevant
so OoT deserves acknowledgement because it was revolutionary at its time, but when you point out another game that was revolutionary it deserves acknowledgement for being popular. and when you point out that there were plenty of great and popular games in 1998 () OoT is great again because it was revolutionary. weird circular logic.
It controls great, has an amazing soundtrack, unique well designed levels, memorable characters and visuals, and a good story. Not to mention it's also casual enough to be picked up by anyone, but not so handholdy as to push people away. It's well designed enough that it still plays great even in today. It is an extremely well made game.
Now compound that with the fact it was the first 3d Zelda, Zelda is a franchise that many people grew up on, and how it essentially set the tone for pretty much every single Zelda game after it then it isn't surprising why it's widely considered one of the best games ever.
>inb4 AlttP
That game set the framework but didn't popularize it. If AlttP is Alone in the Dark, then OoT is Resident Evil.
>what does that matter?
Because controls like OoT were new to everybody in 1998. PDS has pretty smooth movement in towns but nobody played it and I think anyone who did would still have been blown away by OoT since PDS didn't have it's cult status yet.
What does that matter when you look at the core game itself independent of historical context?
>but nobody played it
Are you one of those people who considers Wii U ports to the Switch to be new games because "no one played them on Wii U"?
(OP)(You)
yea getting promised the greatest game of all time im sorry people led you to believe that
You can always look at anything through a modern lens and think its unimpressive, like I wasn't there when the Berlin wall came down so I see it as an unimportant event.
No because there were way more copies of any Wii U game than PDS. If there weren't many copies then it's just an objective fact that very few people played the game at the time.
You can think something is unimpressive under the limelight in 2019 and yet still see why it would have blown people's minds in 1998.
>like I wasn't there when the Berlin wall came down so I see it as an unimportant event.
Is this bait?
>If there weren't many copies then it's just an objective fact that very few people played the game at the time.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make with that. The game still existed at the time and was amazing, but it doesn't count because no one played it? What sort of retarded logic is that? And how does it apply to 2019?
I didn't play it until I was 16, but I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed MM more, but I can still see why people place OoT on a pedestal.
the core game itself is fantastic and virtually peerless so i don't see your point
I played this when I was 12 and still didn't like it, I really did not enjoy how any item you got was just a means to solving a puzzle and didn't really have other uses, whereas in wind waker I had a lot of fun just flying around with the leaf, sailing, etc.
I thought it was bland and boring. We're fundamentally at odds with each other.
Pretty sure that's his point. Of course it's easier to not appreciate a cornerstone moment if you weren't part of it. Doesn't mean it's a good viewpoint to have.
>Looks like shit, no combat, no items, small room
What was your point?
No they shouldn't. Shitting out soulless "good" games by copying tried-and-true game elements other people invented isn't fucking impressive you corporate kike.
Or you could just not beat around the bush and say OoT deserves acknowledgement because it was both revolutionary and popular.
Can you make it any more obvious you've never played it?
I've said like 10 times ITT that I can understand why OOT was revolutionary but that I don't think that its historical impact should be used to judge it as a game in the present. I like games that are far older than OOT and I wasn't around for them.
Half life and metal gear solid were both of those as well. yet you dont see people defending them here daily like their lives depend on it nor do you see them on top of greatest of all time lists.
>The game still existed at the time and was amazing, but it doesn't count because no one played it?
Yes. How does this not make sense to you? To say "You act like this was new in 1998" and then point out a game that nobody played as an example of a game that did OoT's smooth movement first just makes no sense. Even if it was true that PDS has movement on par with OoT, to the vast majority of people it was absolutely new.
embarrassing
Again, you're only finding it bland because you've played replications of it on far more impressive hardware. If you can't factor in the importance of a cornerstone piece of media while consuming it, and appreciate the experience that much more for it I honestly feel bad for you. You may as well be telling me the Beatles aren't that special, or Casablanca was bland and had mediocre acting.
Not that user, but this is exactly why I think you OP is flawed to begin with. You already have a bias against the game and use that to set your standards for other things. Have you ever considered since some people think that the game isn't bland and boring, and perhaps they do think it is the best Zelda on it's own merits compared to the rest, that this is an easy explanation on why people consider it the best game ever?
You can't look at a subjective opinion like this and expect there to be a purely objective answer.
Sure, but you do see them on the list. Popular and revolutionary are not static concepts that are applied evenly to everything.
>shouldn't a game be weighed on its merits relative to the medium as a whole
No they shouldn't you dumb fucking zoomer.
Imagine trying to argue this point for cinema, kek
Panzer fagoon wasnt revolutionary dip shit. If it was it would have been labeled the greatest game of all time. GET IT? Life isn't fucking fair. Some things are crazy popular even though they weren't the first of it's kind. People are the ones deciding what is popular and what isn't. Your whole argument is pretty much void when you realize that logic. A whole fuckton of people say it's the best game ever, therefore it is. Simple logic.
>expect an old N64 to be amazing in 2019
Ocarina is used as a metric on how bad a game has aged, how did you not know this?
Even by that one metric, OoT still controlled better than PDS and anyone who says otherwise either hasn't played both or is just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.
My point is that ignorance on the part of the vast majority of people doesn't somehow nullify that PDS existed seeing as how I choose to look at history based on how it actually happened.
Isn't OOT at its core just a replication of ALTTP, just in 3D? At any rate, it's not that I'm "too young" to like OOT seeing as how I have friends who like it, I just don't like its style of game.
>Panzer Dragoon wasn't revolutionary
Here is a magazine article from 1995. Panzer Dragoon was the first ever rail shooter with 3D movement and 360 degree camera control.
>Can you make it any more obvious you've never played it?
Nobody played it. That's my point.
They're really not comparable games other than the fact that they have 3D movement and explorable towns, which was the reason I brought it up in the first place. Play a Dragon segment of PDS and tell me there's anything comparable in OOT, or vice versa with third person dynamic combat in OOT.
>My point is that ignorance on the part of the vast majority of people doesn't somehow nullify that PDS existed seeing as how I choose to look at history based on how it actually happened.
And how it actually happened is PDS got a tiny amount of copies printed, nobody played it and when OoT came out at the end of the year everybody played that and thought it was the greatest game of all time.
>Panzer Dragoon was the first ever rail shooter with 3D movement and 360 degree camera control
That's great and all, but adventure games are vastly more popular than rail shooters. A revolutionary adventure game will appeal to far more people than a revolutionary rail shooter.
I dont get your point at all. It's like you're trying to argue that we all remember history wrong.
>look at old painting
>it still holds up to this day and personally consider it my favorite
>for some dumb fucking reason the mona-lisa is more popular and liked even when it isn't Da Vinci's best painting
Why do the masses always have shit taste?
>Nobody played it.
When you sit down to play both games and shut off external stimuli I don't for the life of me understand what it matters how famous either game was.
>I just don't like it's style of game
No shit you're not going to agree it's the best game of all time if you don't like that kind of game. Tetris is also a cornerstone game, but I'm not about to raise an opinion about it since I don't give a shit about puzzle games. Either I'm retarded for being baited this hard, or you are for not realizing this instantly.
level design - puzzle design - world and character design - sound and music design - combat, items, UI, even narrative, not many games even today can match the pure intuitive, masterful, thoughtful, clever and well implemented design of this game.
It has atmosphere, it has scares, it has laughs, it has character and characters, it has engaging combat, puzzles, bosses and stages, it has tons of little mechanics that are intuitive to the player due to it's ingenious UI, it's basically perfect. If this game is a 9/10, your favorite game is probably a 7.
Then why do you care?
>Games have superseded it in every facet of its design.
They basically havn't though. There exists nothing that is basically OoT but 'better'. MM radically improves on certain aspects but is otherwise far more flawed, virtually all the Zelda 'clones' (Okami, Darksiders, Alundra, BG&E etc.) are much simpler in structure and world interaction and more linear and Dark Souls, as great as it is, neglects to have the variety of special ability/equipment based puzzles and quests that Zelda has. And at the time, nothing else like it existed, period, so all this applied 10-fold. Everything else was an RPG where you'd walk up to things and select actions from a menu at best (if it had a properly made world), or otherwise was a largely action based game where you'd run around and shoot/hit things.
OoT remains truly unsurpassed, there is nothing that incorporates music into it's world so seamlessly.
>everybody played
I didnt. n64 was successful only in america because only americans were dumb enough to buy a cart based system in 96
Da Vinci spent ages on it and people thought it might be him in drag, so therefor it is obviously the best.
I disagree with almost everything you just said. Also my favorite game is NiGHTS into Dreams if you want to see the sort of games I like.
I don't, I'm just confused as to why OOT is as enormously popular as it is when I had 0 fun playing it.
We must be retarded. This just seems like simple logic. We're arguing with someone that hates Nintendo who can't realize how butthurt he is that his precious game isn't put on the same pedestal as OoT.
>that hates Nintendo
Where did you get this from?
Here's the basis of his argument. He hates Americans and Nintendo fans.
Every single adventure game you have played after the 64 generation owes its existence to OoT.
Its literally the standard for how adventure games are made and still is today.
>there is nothing that incorporates music into it's world so seamlessly.
Check out the iMUSE engine used in Lucas Arts games like Monkey Island II.
>i wanted something that I didnt get: the post
Go away
so you like arcade games instead of sprawling adventures?
How does that invalidate anything I said?
I would insult you because you've exposed yourself but I'll let you sit in your doubt and fester.
>sit in your doubt and fester.
Are you projecting?
>Also my favorite game is NiGHTS into Dreams if you want to see the sort of games I like.
>literally my taste is righter than yours
kek
>literally my taste is righter than yours
Where did I say this?
what an ugly, noisey, gauche, unfun looking game. What is this trash? Wow those numbers tho lmao
>NiGHTS
>ugly
Maybe if you're blind.
:)
N64 still sold more than Saturn in Euroland.
Youre only arguement against why it has good to great content was
>you wrong i like this kind of game instead
Yes paraphrasing happens on the internet get over yourself
It certainty isn't Da Vinci's best work (the last supper is), and it isn't even the best portrait anyways, since that bitch looks ugly as shit and doesnt even have eyebrows.
>character doesn't lean while running to the left or right
>aiming isn't in-universe
>those load times
not even mentioning that that's not even how the game actually plays.
Why does the UI take up half the screen when it's literally just some numbers and a bar
Not him but it really isnt an appealing game compared to contemporary color and art design.
Too much clashes simply for the sake of it because without the distinction all the information would be lost in the action.
Its a function over form thing
why is the animation so rigid and blocky? Her idle is literally a 2 second loop. Like, did the animator fall asleep for the entire development cycle? Also why are her shoes still in their shoebox?I can forgive low poly art cuz Zelda is rife with but at least those points have character... these people just weren't trying. How come there's so much pop in? Also, are you transsexual?
I'll never play this game because it's not critically acclaimed. :)
Why does the entire environment constantly wiggle?
>this is someone's favorite game
Yikes
>Theif
The fuck is TH-EH-IPH?
I beat it recently. I liked it but it doesn't have much replay vaue. Master Quest on 3DS kinda works. It's like once you start you have no idea how to play but as soon as you're finished you can just beeline to objectives. Hence ruining the exploration immersion. Heck I'd rather replay Okami than this game.
pic related
It's running on a console from 1994.
>Why does the UI take up half the screen when it's literally just some numbers and a bar
Every single thing on the screen tells something important.
Because the Saturn doesn't have the polygon budget to subdivide quads, the dirt floor however is rendered by the Saturn's background engine which supports perspective correct texturing.
>Too much clashes simply for the sake of it because without the distinction all the information would be lost in the action.
WTF are you trying to say?
>Her
NIGHTs is gender neutral, and not in the tumblr snowflake kind of way.
>saturn
It was DoA dude
Sorry you cant handle the one of the better formulas for adventure games being executed so well in 3d
>WTF are you trying to say?
>literally cant understand basuc visual disign
The COLORS are CLASHING simply to LOOK DIFFERENT so you can EASILY SEE all the shit happening.
>inb4 he pretends using caps is auto-mad
>OoTfags trying to shit on OP's taste when he said, that he doesnt care about the game being out dated, nor does he consider the game he likes the best of all time like OoT is considered
Why can't you guys just chill and admit that OoT is overrated?
Hi OP
>awful world map
>no dungeons or anything of the sort
Why are you comparing a rather shit game to OoT again?
I would literally rather play PD than PDS any day.
I'm not OP, but keep telling yourself that
youtube.com
this game is like factors more impressive
the animation is crisper, more expressive, the textures are cleaner, the UI is informative and unobtrusive... You can like Nights, but as I said earlier... this is at least a 9/10 and nights is at best a 7/10 compared
You literally cannot compare OOT to NiGHTS. They are about as different as games can be.
not here to lambast anyone, but
isn't that peek zoomer mentality?
>i wasn't there, why was that such a big deal?
i mean, i get it. out of sight, out of mind, but it really is low iq to just hear about a historical event and say
>who gives a shit
Ok
OP is the kind of fag that thinks Super Metroid is a bad game compared to Zero Mission
see Seriously though, as a """boomer""" maybe you can explain to me why your ilk is so obsessed with age, especially on this site?
The difference is timeless vs transient
Nights does one particular thing well, where Zelda does everything well. No OOT is not a part of a internet culture canon in the same way Sega oddball games are, but that doesn't change the fact that it outclasses Nights.
It is. What's your point?
>Zelda does everything well
Where does Zelda do score-attack based arcade action with high replayability?
I'm playing the 3ds remake right now for the first time, it's pretty good
Combat can be janky as shit and somw of the temples were guide-worthy but overall I'm having fun
Castle Town is one area with multiple arcade style games
None of them are comparable to NiGHTS, or any Sega arcade game after 1981 for that matter.
>OP watches Citizen Kane
>doesn't like it because he is comparing it to the Marvel movies he grew up with.
No, one game could never compare to multiple minigames nestled inside a bigger, better game than the one game you like
>feels smooth to play when its not dropping frames
>has a large variety of content from dangerous dungeons to cheerful minigames
>shows the power of the platform with its draw distance and lack of rendering fog
has expressive cutscenes
>has a plot thats both easy to digest for kids but with enough meat for older audiences to enjoy just the same
>allows for replaying dungeons in several orders so going back for another play isnt 100% identical
And most importantly
>is basically alttp in 3d
My point is, OoT is a good game, revolutionary for it's time, but holy shit is it overrated as fuck.
you can like the game all you want, it certainly sounds better than liking any of the trash these actual kids play like Fortnite, but to think it's perfect and always will be is ignorant, and to get pissy over someone pointing out how your favourite game isn't perfect is childish
Because the younger generation is the worst generation to date. They literally wont be able to function in society after high school. Your opinions are all trash. You think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread because you grew up with fortnite and minecraft
All you really need to know is that 1997-1998 really was one of the best times to be playing games. Zelda 64 being just one of the reasons.
OoT defined a great many things that you define as "average" because OoT had already pioneered it before you zoomer ass was even born.
>They literally wont be able to function in society after high school.
My peers in school and at work suggest otherwise. At the end of the day humans are always the same. The superficial details might be different like playing with fidget spinners instead of pet rocks or whatever, but the fundamental psychology is the same. Maybe you're just a retard or something.
it was the best game when it came out.
and for a while during its time. obviously playing it today its not going to be the best game ever
Well, I think Citizen Kane SUCKS
>holy shit it's overrated as fuck
I disagree. Funny how opinions work.
>tfw your the only person on the earth who actually knows whats wrong with OoT
Its certainly not anything OP mentioned since hes a huge fag.
I'm going to laugh when I'm old and die and I'm still the only person who actually understood what went wrong and killed any chance of having a series worth celebrating.
Still fun games but holy shit the n64 ones really did blow the whole franchise.
>pulp fiction is better than le samourai because its more popular
I remember the hype and speculation surrounding this game up to it release, it was really insane for its time.
The hype was so much that if there was internet culture back then like there was now, it would have never lived up to expectations.
Re-read the thread, aside from a few who are shiting on OPs preferences, most anons at the beginning were never claiming it was un-flawed, people were just explaining why it was viewed as such and that even if its not best technically speaking, it still deserves to be respected for how it impacted and influenced adventure games to this day. OP is free to think otherwise, but he was insisting on failing to understand something very simple even after some tried to explain it.
>le
Fuck off, underage redditor
It's mostly in the atmosphere and music
>it's just opinions XDDDD
That's not an opinion, it's a fact, OoT is rated 100% in metacritic for fuck sake, it deserving it or not doesn't change on how it is rediclous to critique a game on the time it came out and not on it's own merits.
This. I also can't stand people who think the Iliad and Odyssey are good
>no response
I guess it had too much going for it
Even has horseback archery all in one tightly made experience.
But OP already said in this thread that he sees how OoT is impactful, just that it isn't the magnum opus everyone was making it out to be
It's worth noting how revolutionary it was but it's fucking dumb to keep pushing it as the world's greatest video game when it's long-since been surpassed by it's own franchise and many others.
OP would get laughed out the room in literally any other medium aside from games.
>but shouldn't a game be weighed on its merits relative to the medium as a whole
Compared to the time it was in, yes. Don't be retarded and compare things from tens, hundreds, thousands of years ago and call them nothing special because things are better today. And even still, Ocarina of Time offers far more than most AAA releases these days. I think it's overrated too but it's a solid 9/10.
>That's not an opinion, it's a fact,
No it is opinion, you have zero objective basis on saying that a subjective rating is higher than it should be. Whether you like it or not, all ratings are inherently subjective at their very core. You saying it is overrated is just another one of those subjective opinions to throw into the pile.
You literally cannot compare OOT to NiGHTS. They are about as different as games can be.
>Where does Zelda do score-attack based arcade action with high replayability?
Hmmm
Like this user says No game is perfect, that's literally impossible because hardwares and softwares are always advancing daily.
The thing is, OOT did not invent various of the mechanics it had, aside from some, it used lots of ideas that existed, but it did what no other game at the time did, implemented extremely well and invented the formula of how 3rd person adventure/action games is used to this very day, the reason it was and is still loved is because it peaked on every possible way it could be done at the time and it's still used as base to modern games.
kek
Zoomer take incoming
The only parts of OoT that don't hold up well today are the graphics and the size of the world. Two or so dungeons aren't very good, but the rest definitely are. The soundtrack is also legendary, unlike botw
>how much influence it has today.
How do you actually gauge that when not even current Zelda games play like it?
Are you really acting this childish just so your childhood game remains the greatest in your head? Because with your logic no game is overrated rendering the word just gibberish nonsense
That's the point, it's subjective, I myself also do not believe its the magnum opus, even though its one of my favorite games and I still replay it to this day. OP is free to have his opinion, and so are other people, he doesn't need to agree with the majority, it doesn't matter, it's all opinions, some never change. But he was asking in way that he didn't understand why it was viewed as such, and the anons, including me, were just explaining to him other people's POV.
Did OP get his answer or is he going to ignore all the correct responses?
We can all agree that AssCreed is one of the greatest games if all times because of it's influence on open world games, right? Even Zelda was influenced by it.
Where do you think we are?
I can't even tell if this is bait or not at this point
I doubt it makes my top 100
>it would have never lived up to expectations.
Amazing isn’t it?
>that flagrant disingenuous post to try and rile people up with misinformation
You did it!
Clearly all games with towers were inspired by asscreed user, the case is solved. I can finally rest easy now.
just like clearly every game with z targeting was inspired by OoT
>Are you really acting this childish just so your childhood game remains the greatest in your head?
I don't think OoT is the greatest game nor do I think that pointing out a simple truth is acting childish.
>Because with your logic no game is overrated rendering the word just gibberish nonsense
No game is objectively overrated. The word still has plenty of applicable use in describing how you subjectively feel about a game.
No, GTA3 did, and yes many people view GTA3 amd Rockstar very favorably for its massive influence on open world gaming
Pretending to make something new under the false pretense that it's even possible to be original is the recipe for how you make shitty games that require no effort over and over, and charge $60 for it every time. To actually take established concepts and improve upon them requires more talent, and it's what actually makes quality games. "New" ideas will rarely be good the first time. That's why Mario 3 is way better than Mario 1. That's why New Vegas is so much better than Fallout 3. That's why Link to the Past is better than Zelda 1. The whole idea is that you create the concept then expand upon it and evolve it, not just create a concept then move on to the next one and never improve and claim it's "better" that way somehow.
>No game is objectively overrated.
FF7
>tfw Zelda was so popular and I was so easily influenced that it took me from OoT until Skyward Sword to realize I don't even like Zelda
Cope, AssCreed was the one that came up with the Ubisoft towers and other games followed suit
dont fall for the memes
3d zelda is mediocre at best
The older 2d ones can be fun but that dont waste your time with garbage either.
If Ocarina of Time wasn't a masterpiece then it wouldn't be rated so high. Take a good look at this picture, almost everything in it is considered a generation defining masterpiece among critics & gamers alike. A few contrarians on Yea Forums won't change that, for something to still be remembered that fondly after 20 years is a testament to it's quality. Most games are forgotten after 1 month now
Or maybe your own opinion changed over time? Or are you that insecure that you have to believe you never liked it to begin with?
>but that dont
but THEY dont waster your time with garbage, the 2d games have much better pacing and ratio of action to down time.
I cant stand how modern games are defined by the amount of padding they can squeeze in
>OoT
>best storyline
>best fucking character is a literal self insert avatar
Is this some sort of autistic bait?
>best storyline
>mass effect 2 at 3rd
should tell you that majority of people who play video games are retarded plebs who are easily impressed. play more video games and look at things more objectively instead of jerking off the same games year after year.
> FF7 is literally in the top 5 on every list
> Somehow isn't in the category related to review scores
How?
>You can’t hate something because you didn’t like it, stop being contrarian
Wew
What happened with Samus?
No, Best Character lists are simply popularity contest. And OOT undeniably has the most iconic storyline in gaming, you could make a collage of moments or levels from that game & people would be able to instantly recognize all of them
ITT zoomers trying to deny OoT being of the greatest and most important video games ever made.
>it-its shit!
I can't even laugh at you stupid pathetic dumb kids anymore but at least I can take solace in how utterly irrelevant you are.
I don't see what point you are trying to make. Nobody thinks having towers in an open world game is a notable game changing mechanic.
>youre a zoomer if you werent a nintendo faggot
lol
Imagine being a Segafag in 1998.
OOT was so groundbreaking & mindblowingly perfect when it came out that anyone who even tried to deny it's excellence was shunned from any gaming discussion. It wasn't until EgoRaptors made his Sequalitist video that it became popular to hate it
I had a pc and later on playstation
Than why not just call it most popular fucking character than? And I'm pretty sure Mario is more popular than Samus, so you're obviously wrong anyways
And there is nothing special about the STORY line of OoT, it is memorable but it is far from the best
Being a PC drone is even worse
I'm so sorry that you have to wake up every day in a world where OoT is regarded as the greatest video game of all time, an absolute masterpiece in game design and one of the most important and influential games ever made. And there's nothing you can do.
What's that like? How do you cope?
I didn't have that kind of media exposure as a kid and none of my friends knew what Zelda was, so there was a time that I thought OOT was a hidden gem.
The worst part is that dumb fuck is so bad at games he blames his own failings on the game most of the time.
I can think of a real tragedy that OoT did to zelda but most dont even realize its a bad thing and enjoy the ride.
His favorite games are arcade racers and shitty lucas arts point and click "games". I doubt he has a functioning braincell
Sadly it's "appeal" is being the first of it's kind in 3D since it's mechanics revolutionized otherwise clunky 3D games at the time. Okami and Twilight Princess already took a big fat shit on it and neither game was far from perfect. Even it's 64 sequel had more charm put into it.
Cope, i can't even imagine being this uneducated that i would actually argue against Ocarina of Time
Every highly regarded game is subject to this crap. You never see a game that sold say under a million copies talked about as an all time GOAT because its too unpopular at that point. At most cult classics such as Super Metroid which never sold 2 million will get highly regarded but never something selling under a million.
>there was a time that I thought OOT was a hidden gem
That's actually cute.
I plan to play this soon but what exactly is it that makes people lose their shit about this game? Is it the story? The world? Gameplay? Or just as a whole?
Your taste sucks.
I hate TP the most and MM isnt better to me either.
Rollercoasters are boring to me no matter how much side shit or graffix you throw in
SoulCalibur only sold 1 million dollars
Game Design.
You can literally split the gaming landscape into BEFORE OoT and AFTER OoT.
Pacing, Atmosphere, Soundtrack, Storytelling, Dungeons, Camera Angles that make the game feel epic as fuck
I'm so sorry that you have to live in an existence where you will throw an utter shitfit whenever someone says they don't like a game made in 98.
Every list related to best female characters has her at the top, so that ended up boosting her into the top 2
MM is a blatantly rushed asset flip. It has a lot of soul and some really neat ideas but it is an absolute chore to play.
I always forget OoT has different side quests depending on if its day or night in the towns/areas.
I never expect zelda to do things like a day night cycle but they were ever since n64
It's one of the purest depictions of the Hero's Journey you can get. Also it has waifus.
Yea Forums's favorite game of all time is literally Ocarina of Time you fucking idiot, what did you expect? It's like going to Boston & insulting the Red Sox
Yawn. Grow up or get a better a argument or at least educate yourself.
You really have to just play it. It's a whole experience that nothing else has been able to replicate. Really, just try to find out as little about it as possible and experience it for yourself.
Critics are contrarian faggots, nothing new
Fucking Castlvania 2 had a day/night cycle.
Yea Forums's favorite game of all time was deus ex back in 2008. you know when this site was populated by pcfags and the japantime faggots were a tiny minority.
No shit retard, you didnt even get the point of the post.
What I'm saying is that when I think zelda I mostly think of alttp or oracles, not the 3d ones.
It was always a simple game for me but the 3d ones kept trying to push the envelope is some retarded way every time after OoT happened.
Well still at least a million copies and it was the game after Soul Edge which was also seen as very good. Plus back then Namco could do no wrong with 3D fighters in gamers eyes thanks to Tekken arguably being at its peak with Tekken 3.
I'd challenge somebody to show me just one game that sold under 1 million that is constantly talked and hyped up to this day. If it is well under a million copies then forget about it.
Why do you have to insist that I hate OoT? I'm just saying it isn't the best story wise, and Link isn't a character, and do you really think Mario is a great character? He's just a mascot.
And sorry for the late reply, was busy carrying a table
Wrong
> 1. Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
> 2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
> 3. StarCraft: Brood War
> 4. Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow
> 5. Shadow of the Colossus
> 6. Super Mario 64
> 7. Deus Ex
> 8. EarthBound
> 9. Metal Gear Solid
> 10. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
This was the Top 10 of our first ever best games list, if you weren't a massive newfag you would know this
Link genuinely is a good character & although i agree that OOT doesn't have the best story (Mother 3 does). It still deserves it's spot because of how magical the storyline is
That list is pretty shit desu
Not that user, but this is very much a case of the protag just being a oart of a well regarded game. At least in the case of OoT, Link is practically nonexistent as a character.
Speaking of OoT3D, is it normal that you can phase through the walls that say you need the lens of truth, the ones in shadow temple? Was it like that in the original too?
where'd you yank that list, ED?
OoT is the game that ran so future Zelda games could walk, it set a lot of standards for the franchise and games industry as a whole.
...That being said, it really hasn't aged well. It's gone from "best game ever" to one of those games you play if you want to appreciate the history of the franchise it's from. Sadly the rose-tinted glasses that Zelda fanboys wear for this game are so tinted they may as well be a blindfold.
Yes.
You dont ever truly need the lens, its just there to help.
Can you still spam it to not use magic in 3d?
Yes. zyou only need the Lens of Truth to see which walls you can phase through, you don't need it to actually walk through them though.
No, Link is a good archetype of a character, he's personality consist of being brave and that's it, the rest is fleshed out by the player since that's all what he is, a self insert character
And sure I'd put OoT story in #5 personally
I played it on the 3DS not long ago and thought it was pretty good. But nawh, ignoring what it accomplished for the time is pretty stupid imo. I mean if you're going to then by today's standards it's just a solid action-adventure with some occasionally wonky controls, but it paved the way for all the good shit that exists now. Sort of the same way Led Zeppelin is one of the best rock bands ever, plenty of more talented musicians have come up since, but they broke new ground and expanded the horizons. You wouldn't call Einstein a moron just because some of the things he thought were wrong.
>shouldn't a game be weighed on its merits relative to the medium as a whole
It should, and that also includes the context it was created and released in. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum, it must be appreciated as a product of its time.
The only reason Pokemon is so high is because this was before the /vp/ split.
It's not that bad on the 3DS dude, come on. Compared to a lot of the 3D games from the time it holds up decently just in mechanics, and I think the dungeons and puzzles are still satisfying
>only reason game is so high is because it was before they got their own containment board
So its insanely popular?
I dont get what youre saying
>SoTC in 5
And you hate Nintendo. WE KNOW.
It's a good game, and is pretty fun
also has a kino ending
You're missing the time. This game was out in 1998 and it became the bedrock of 3D games.
Odds are you've played action RPGs that have come out since the release of OoT and built upon what OoT did well. What seems bland now was groundbreaking then.
Same thing happened to me with GTAIII. Everyone talked about how amazing it was, but I only played it after playing Vice City and San Andreas, so it did nothing to impress me.
So no, I don't think it's fair to really judge a game merely by the standards of 20+ years later. You have to judge it mostly on its contemporary merits as well.
And you love the N64! We get it bro! You're a hardcore millennial who grew up in the 90s!
Anyone else think it strange that people constantly shit on game journalists and their opinions around here but not in the case of OoT where every best games list gets cited to prove their point?
>it became the bedrock of 3D games.
isn't that Mario 64?
I like it a lot, but it isn't top 5 material.
>nor do you see them on top of greatest of all time lists.
Show me a "greatest/best/most important games of all time" list that doesn't have MGS or Half-Life featured somewhere
Neither is Pokemon or Starcraft to me, but that's how it works with these lists, you always have to disagree on something
>Anyone else think it strange that people constantly shit on game journalists and their opinions around here but not in the case of OoT where every best games list gets cited to prove their point?
people shit on journalists when they're wrong. Imagine that...
>Anyone else think it strange that people constantly shit on game journalists and their opinions around here but not in the cases of where they agree with the journalists
No I think this is a pretty common occurrence here.
HL2 & MGS are literally on every single best game list, where the fuck have you been the last 15 years?
Oh great sage, what is your wisdom? Bestow it upon us lowly fools so we may be risen to your heights.
>when it's long-since been surpassed by it's own franchise
I fucking wish.
It's too easy, that's the only flaw. If it had the emphasis on timing and obstacles of Alttp it would be literally perfect, but it's just too hard to die in that game. The setting and sense of adventure are unrivaled.
This, FF6, Chrono Trigger & FF7 are the only things that have come close. But the pacing issues in those games hold them back. OOT is the one game that doesn't have any pacing issues, which is what sets it apart from everything else
>it's long-since been surpassed by it's own franchise and many others.
All the individual parts that make up Ocarina have been surpassed. As a whole that's a completely different story. The franchise itself has definitely not surpassed Ocarina since.
lmao
Wind Waker is better than both.
>what is MM
>what is TP
>what is BotW
Another post of his where he mocks Americans for buying Nintendos.
All inferior. And I say this as someone who likes MM more.
Bullshit. Twilight Princess had more creative bosses, MM had better side quests, and BOTW had more land to explore
I wouldn't call any of those better than Ocarina of Time, though there are parts of them I think are better than Ocarina of Time's analogous parts.
Years ago I came to the realisation that every song that exists has someone out there who holds it as their favourite song, confirmed when I heard someone on the radio once say that Fool in the Rain by Led Zeppelin was their favourite song. Vidya is the same.
>Is there something I'm missing with this game?
Yes. Usually people who don't get the hype need to try the other version of the game. Younger people who played the 3DS version first tend to think the N64 version feels more "grand" despite its slight clunkiness, while young people who played the N64 version first really appreciate the graphical upgrade of the 3DS version.
TP had its wolf sections and MM had the time limit mechanic. BOTW had durability. These are all major points of contention within the fanbase. What does OoT have?
hang yourself
>Panzer Dragoon Saga
>Soul Calibur
>Star Craft
>Baldur's Gate
>better than OOT
absolute autist detected
>it underestimates the player's ability to grapple with 3D space in its puzzle solving and navigation
Keep in mind that grappling with 3D space was still relatively new to video games in 1998. Thus, for the time, just pointing your slingshot up to shoot at an eye in the room was still kind of novel.
As a Zelda fan OoT was passed ages ago and people need to get over it.
Skulltulas, Constant Song Warping, Switching back and forth between young/adult Link (since we're using gameplay mechanics as a means of flaws).
Read that earlier post again. Ocarina has been surpassed in all its individual parts, but when you put it together as a whole Ocarina is stronger. Majora does some things better than Ocarina. It also does a lot of things worse than Ocarina. TP was Ocarina on the Wii (in a rehash kind of way) and as you said, it had some better bosses, but it's also got stuff like the tears of light dragging down whole sections of the game. You can apply this to every post-OoT Zelda game.
>OOT is overrated
>my favorite game is NiGHTS into Dreams
Zoomers will never understand this. They've spent their lives playing games from developers who have stood on the shoulders of giants - notably Nintendo's.
OoT is overrated, it's still a fantastic game.
Agreed 100% I played it for the first time a few years ago and it was honestly boring for the most part. I played Majora's Mask afterwards and found it much more enjoyable
>Skulltulas, Constant Song Warping, Switching back and forth between young/adult Link
I have never seen any major debate about these things. I haven't even seen any minor debate about these things. I figured you would've brought up the discussion on the Water Temple.
I've seen plenty of complaints on those things, just as I've seen people who love the durability of BotW, wolf sections of TP, and time mechanics of MM.
Every game is flawed, it's subjective views on what those flaws typically are. I love all the games myself, but there are problems. As for the Water Temple, it's not hard, people's problem with it is they either forget the key below the raised block in the center platform, or they forget the key on the 2nd floor behind the bombable wall right below where you first meet Ruto. Besides if we really wanna get technically as we do with TP being an OoT clone, then OoT is just ALttP in 3D and a clone, standard Zelda formula that ALttP had set up, to which BotW destroyed (and thank god for it ultimately), though the game does need more proper dungeons and some fixes to the durability personally.
OoT has been surpassed in what it's done, whether its spread between games or not is a different story, each game does it's own unique and interesting things, so its ultimately hard to compare them despite them all being the same series with nearly identical formulas.
>has a plot thats both easy to digest for kids but with enough meat for older audiences to enjoy just the same
That's a good point. When I was a kid it was a simple save the world story, while as an adult I realize that Link had an ostracized childhood, basically sacrificed his adolescence to save the world, and in the end gained nothing.
I understand that, but it was still an underestimation in even the short-run. Of course you have to accommodate extant audiences and it's hard to predict where people will be in even a couple years, but it's nevertheless an underestimation that prevents the game from being more evergreen than it already is.
That's not really relevant.
In fact, everyone he knows was pissed to the wind in order to gain back an adolescence he didn't even seem like he wanted (as he immediately went off on another adventure). All the people he really knows are in an alternate timeline, sure they're technically the same, but they're also technically not the same either. Some bonds he lost due to what had transpired. Just as he always dreamed of being a hero and being recognized, either by a fairy or by the other Kokiri, and it wasn't until nobody remembered him that he was actually recognized. He's only ever recognized when he's not actually around.
The Hero of Time had a hard life, he fucked time up so bad that he has to exist concurrently with himself at some point, dead in one timeline, alive in another, which is then splintered into non-existence, only for him to eventually find nobody worth a damn in all of Hyrule and decades to pass on his skills and swordsmanship to keep ensuring Hyrule was safe.
BotW does a good job of why Link is silent. He silently bears it all because that's his job as an adult, that's his personal courage in a way.
This is the first I've heard of anyone pointing those out as flaws.
The only significant flaw I've ever heard repeated fairly often is swapping items.
>OoT
>RPG
Based retard
>Majora's Mask
Short main quest is padded with tedious filler
>Twilight Princess
Wolf sections were underdeveloped, atmosphere was rarely as strong as the games before it
>Breath of the Wild
Not enough variety in dungeon aesthetics, bosses, enemies, or soundtrack
>I've seen plenty of complaints on those things, just as I've seen people who love the durability of BotW, wolf sections of TP, and time mechanics of MM.
On to the latter point you made, that was my point. From what I've personally seen, every major 3d Zelda game has had a major gameplay element that has differing decisive opinions on, becoming major focal points of discussion on the quality of the game, whereas OoT hasn't.
WW had boat travel
TP had wolf sections
SS had WAGGLAN
BotW had durability.
I'm not talking about complaints and flaws, I'm talking about elements that explicitly split opinions for each game. I'm not saying people don't have complaints about OoT, but can you honestly say you've seen similar reactions for OoT's gameplay?
That's because none of those mechanics were bad at all. Skulltulas were a cool way to get extra stuff, warping was just quick traveling which is welcome in an open world game especially since the songs are awesome, and switching between old and young link was a cool mechanic that allowed you to experience two different timelines/scenarios at once.
I've heard quite a few, but they are lesser complaints compared to some other things admittedly. Iron Boot switching is a big one though since you brought it up.
Either way, OoT isn't a perfect game. It's fine if that's someone's favorite, just as any other game really is, but it definitely has its flaws. People do like to point out though that it is just ALttP in 3D, which if you really boil it down, that is the case, and was the beginning of the formulaic Zelda formula due to OoT's popularity which caused some stagnation within the series over time.
You realise alot of that wouldn;t exist if not for MM right? It may not be a Ocarina sequel in the traditional sense but it does wonders for giving depth for Ocarina's world without actually taking place in it because so many characters are direct paralells to Ocarina ones (Plus the Skull Keed and HMS)
Well the biggest complaint I've seen if we're going to go that route is the Dungeon Layouts and general feel of the game. Aesthetically and lore wise they're great, but there is a reason Master Quest exists in the first place, which wasn't just about difficulty (which in reality the game is pretty piss easy like most Zeldas), but it changed the layout entirely which made for a better flow and progression.
Which can go back to the Water Temple complaint, but most dungeon layouts/progression are pretty fucked barring Shadow Temples.
>pokemon blue/red/yellow as 4th top game of all time
>he biggest complaint I've seen if we're going to go that route is the [...] general feel of the game
This is such a vague statement that unless you clarify it's not even a point.
>but there is a reason Master Quest exists in the first place, which wasn't just about difficulty (which in reality the game is pretty piss easy like most Zeldas), but it changed the layout entirely which made for a better flow and progression.
Yeah, the reason was that it was a bonus for preordering Wind Waker and is akin to Zelda 1's second quest.
That is the best pokemon game of all time but not the best game of all time.
Kind of, but Link's "growing up" being negated is part of the original game anyhow. I interpret the ending scene where Link visits Zelda as meaning that Zelda forgot everything Link did.
And the game by itself constantly thematically references the passage of time and growing up, be it Sheik's dialogue pretty much explicitly confirming this or just the events you see happen around you. You could almost interpret the game itself as a metaphor for growing up, really.
based
Horseback archery, a time travel story and a music gimmick and they pulled it all off.
The Zora Egg and Ikana Well parts are infinitesimally worse than the Water Temple
While being spherical and having uniform density
>Skulltulas
Optional sidequest.
>Constant Song Warping
Don't like fast travel? Use your feet
>Switching back and forth between young/adult Link
Obligatory in only one dungeon and a mini-dungeon. Every other case is completely optional and under the control of the player.
>Optional
Technically so are the godlen bugs in Twilight Pirncess (Besides the first since I think you need at least one upgrade to afford a plot related item at one point). Doesn't stop it form being a fucking chore.
It's bland because all games you have played have been inspired by it so there's nothing new for you to experience. It's like saying The Beatles are bland. Yeah sure, for today's standards.
>Technically so are the golden bugs in Twilight Princess
No they aren't, you need to do the tears of light for every region to get rid of the Twilight before you can progress.
I loved collecting bugs for that cute 10 year old though.
Disregard I'm retarded, I wasn't thinking of Agitha's quest
Ocarina of Time is fun.
Most underrated post in the thread. This captures it so well. There is no other game that is a better version of OoT. Twilight Princess comes the closest of all that I've played, but even then something is missing. Maybe its just that its trying to be a retread of OoT too literally instead of capturing its spirit, maybe its the boring wolf sections that bog it down.
Nothing else captures that same sense of a folklore adventure, that magical feeling that sometimes dips into exuberance and sometimes into eerie atmosphere and even horror. I don't think anything else captures what Ocarina somehow does simultaneously too - the sense of a hugely varied but yet somehow cohesive adventure, that feels both episodic and also like one huge tale, all at once.
I love Majora's Mask almost as much, its like Ocarina's shadow, but I don't think its trying to be the same thing as Ocarina and shouldn't be judged like Ocarina. It feels like Ocarina's B-Side in the best possible way.
Imo we shouldn't try and recapture Ocarina, just let it stand on its own two feet for what it is and try different things. Is it the best game ever? Who cares? It's an incredible game that stands out as a masterpiece and landmark of its time. I really hope the industry can put out something that gets that reputation again. The fact that no one industry-wide has offered up a game like it since, in the sense of a game where everyone has to acknowledge it in some way and its considered by many to be a masterpiece and a paradigm shift, is very telling of how badly off we are.
By that logic Tenis for Two or Pong would be the goat
All Zeldas are incredibly easy, you can't really hold that against them.
so you're saying they're worse by such a small amount that it can't even be measured?
Technically, they are pretty flawless games and they hold up well today in their simplicity. But there is a subjective element in how we rate our entertainment that isn't captured for those two like it is with OoT. Add to that the breadth and quality of OoT and it's easy to see why they're on different levels.
Twilight Princess's main quest is full of tedious errands. It's not just side quests.
What did it do for the video game medium anyway? Introduce 3D overworlds and Z-targeting? The former of which was done better in Ultima Underworld imo.
Fuck, I'm a brainlet. I meant infinitely.
That's you opinion. TP had a larger map, better boss battles, battle fishing mechenics, better dungeons, better upgrades, and a better story. What does OOT have except nostalgia?
That's fine and all you're allowed to not like thing but I will criticize you for being a fucking hipster
PC autists who bring up their favorite DOS RPGs never understand that the reason people bring up Zelda and not those games is that Zelda is actually fun to play.
Nobody that's not a CRPG nostalgiafag would ever want to play this in 2019, whereas Ocarina of Time's world is actually fun to explore around in. The game's controls are intuitive instead of being a byzantine nightmare, and the interface is a bit big and intrusive by modern standards (thanks to the N64's tiny resolution and the fact that modern displays don't have overscan to clip the corners of the screen), but it doesn't look as horrible as THIS.
A better game.
Yeah sure because it came out in the 1990s means its better.
Twilight Princess is obviously trying to be Ocarina #2, and I love it for that, but it has a lot of glaring flaws that IMO make it inferior:
>horribly boring wolf sections that fuck the pacing up terribly - all you want to do when you get to a new area is explore it. In Ocarina that's what you do. In Twilight you have to go through this shadow world fetch quest first where you already see a shittier version of the world before you see it for real.
>Wolf stuff is also barely fleshed out at all, the mechanics of being a wolf feel really half-assed and can't hold a candle to all the equipment and techniques Link has as a human. It's boring and you just want to get back to human Link so you can get back to playing a Zelda game.
>Music not as well integrated into the game as Ocarina, which also has the double negative of reducing your vectors of interaction with the world while Ocarina had a lot of clever interaction vectors that also incorporated lore through its music
>a world larger than Ocarina's by an order of magnitude, but completely empty with nothing to do while Ocarina's is comparatively densely packed. It feels like empty space, the world is big just to be big and for no other reason. Unfortunately this ended up being a trend in open world games.
>Dungeons are flat and uninteresting when compared to Ocarina's. I've played both games many times over. My favorite temple of all time is the Forest Temple in Ocarina, but there are many memorable Ocarina dungeons. Not so much Twilight. I really liked Arbiter's Grounds, but the rest feel kind of mediocre. Fire Temple in particular was an enormous letdown.
>Completely fails to capture Ocarina's folklore vibe and doesn't get either its exuberant moments or its very odd, eerie moments.
To be clear I really like Twilight but even after replaying Ocarina yearly since I was like 8 (24 now) it still captures me on each playthrough and there are things that excite me and I look forward to as the game progresses
>TP had a larger map
Which is still just as empty as OoT, making it even worse filler
>better boss battles
One of the bosses literally doesn't even attack you
>battle fishing mechanics, better dungeons, better upgrades, and a better story
Yeah I can agree with this. But TP also has worst pacing, and an uglier artstyle.
just fucking let us fuck the fucking waifus nintendo.
why do we have to be blue balled every time
gamerankings.com
Its the most reviewed Zelda game in history more so than breath of the wild. OOT may be higher but TP has more 10 out of 10s than Ocarina
Also, to temper that negative post and point out some stuff I love about Twilight:
>added those sword arts, which were an incredible idea and even had them be useful on some enemies in particular
>great bosses in terms of spectacle, although unfortunately they're pretty boring to fight
>Midna was a fantastic character and it was a delight to see how she was integrated into the story as it unravels
>Some fun unique items like the skateboard thing
>Golden bugs were vastly superior to skulltulas in my opinion
>Castle Town was absolutely incredible, still my favorite thing about the game
>Wolf stuff is also barely fleshed out at all, the mechanics of being a wolf feel really half-assed and can't hold a candle to all the equipment and techniques Link has as a human.
By far my biggest problem with the Wolf form. You gain its entire skillset as soon as you obtain it, and it remains underutilized. Wolf combat in particular is half-assed; they could've used the latch-on mechanic more creatively, like having you bite a big enemy's specific weakpoint. They also should've let you do the Poe finishing move on every enemy you can hit with an Ending Blow.
THIS. GoD FUCK I"M SOHORNY
Fair enough, I definitely really love the game and it was also a big part of my childhood. I remember how hyped I was for it when it was coming out, I must have been like 11 or 12. It deserves its praise. Unfortunately I don't think it quite captured Ocarina's magic, but I appreciate that it tried to emulate it especially after Wind Waker, which now looking back I also appreciate but at the time such a sudden and extreme departure from Ocarina/Majora was irritating.
YEAH WHEN IS NINTENDO GOING TO UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE INSANE LIBIDO.
DEAR GOD I CANT STOP GETTING ERECTIONS IF I DONT FAP AT LEAST 4 TIMES A DAY
I wanted to love Twilight Princess (And in a way I really do) but there's too much shit clogging what could be a great game.
>Spinner is used for two heart pieces
>Ball and Chain is used for one
>Dominion Rod is used for I believe 2 Heart pieces but you pretty much get them by default when doing the main quest
>Double Clawshots seem like they'd be the coolest shit
>Do you know how many heart pieces requuire them?
>ONE
>Literally two big sidequests
>Jack all to do in town
>Poe hunting sucks fucking balls because there's no way to make it night
To put this into context. That small portion of the game between dispelling Lanaryu's Twilight and the fourth dungeon you can clear out 90% of the game's overworld map. That's really sad.
Yeah it really is bizarre especially with all the trouble they went to fleshing out Link with the sword art stuff. By comparison the wolf is insanely barebones. It feels like you're playing the demo of another game entirely when you do the wolf sections. Feels rushed, I wonder if it was simply a case of not enough time for all the ideas they had or if they legitimately didn't really know what to do with the wolf after they made it.
It also functions as a subtle technique to pad the time out, which Twilight is unfortunately rife with. Hunt these twenty five bugs, do this fetch quest, go all the way across the big empty world to this point. Now go all the way back. You can tell they were very conscious about how long they wanted it be quoted as in terms of hours. I remember the IGN review at the time back when they were still the go to guys for setting game opinion was talking about how it was "75 hours long".
>One of the bosses literally doesn't even attack you
Which one?
>Larger map good
>Music not as well integrated into the game as Ocarina
I dunno, it feels fucking awesome when the boss music switches up as you find the weakpoint.
>completely empty with nothing to do
This is a meme. There are quite a few hidden grottos, including the exploration caves which I always loved as short little challenges. Did you know there's a cave in North Hyrule Field leading to a big room with three block puzzles? There are also a great deal of chests strewn throughout the world. Granted, oftentimes the reward is just Rupees (or a Stamp in the HD version), but it remains that the exploration never did get enough credit.
>Dungeons are flat and uninteresting in comparison
Aesthetically they are absolutely BTFO by OOT, but I think gameplay-wise they're still all really good. The run from Lakebed Temple to the Temple of Time in particular was excellent. Palace of Twilight does hit on some of OOT's eerieness but taken in a different direction, which I love.
>Completely fails to capture Ocarina's vibe, eerieness, and oddness
I absolutely agree that aestherically OOT has TP whooped, but TP was kind of going for something different, a little more western and slightly more modern.
I agree with you overall that OOT is better.
Sounds like (You) are merely soulless yourself.
I only got around playing it for the first time in 2012, and really blew my socks off. Absolutely stellar game, that must've been world shaking in 1998.
The only other games in the whole series that even come close to it are the MM and BotW.
Morpheel's second phase. It actually does try to inhale you if you get too close to its mouth, but you can very easily kill the boss without that happening...and that's its only attack.
Nah.
Also, if you know what you're doing, Diababa, Fyrus, and Argorok can be defeated with little effort, especially Fyrus, who looks cool and has great battle music, but lumbers around like a jackass and can't hit you from afar.
>I dunno, it feels fucking awesome when the boss music switches up as you find the weakpoint.
I don't think you understood me right. I meant integrated literally. As in Ocarina actually has as a central gameplay feature the ability to learn and play different songs to alter the world while Twilight does not integrate music into the world much at all.
>There are quite a few hidden grottos, including the exploration caves which I always loved as short little challenges.
Most of these are really boring as well as few and far between. They are nice when you find them but they don't at all fill the world up.
>There are also a great deal of chests strewn throughout the world. Granted, oftentimes the reward is just Rupees
There are waaaayyyyy too many chests in Twilight. Removing like 60% of them would actually benefit the game.
>but it remains that the exploration never did get enough credit.
Ehhhhh exploration is one of Twilight's weakest points in general.
> they're still all really good. The run from Lakebed Temple to the Temple of Time in particular was excellent. Palace of Twilight does hit on some of OOT's eerieness but taken in a different direction, which I love.
I did like the Palace of Twilight. I have to say I think that the Fire Temple and Water Temple - pretty bland and uninteresting. Forest Temple has a failed gimmick that leads to it being not the best but still I would its a good temple. I really like Arbiter's Grounds and would say its my favorite of the bunch. Temple of Time and the Cloud temple I barely remember, but I remember not liking the Cloud temple at all.
I will say, Hyrule Castle was pretty fucking rad.
> but TP was kind of going for something different, a little more western and slightly more modern.
I can see that, but I also think its tone is a little confused and it doesn't quite know what it wants to be. It feels like Ocarina's little brother.
I put it below Ocarina but I still love it.
There's not a single fucking thing which Twilight Princess didn't eclipse on Ocarina of time.
Overworld was a good idea but with botched execution. Most of the dungeons are nothing special. The triforce chart and stretches of empty ocean are big flaws in the GC version (the former especially), and the HD version doesn't fix the issues entirely.
It's literally A Link to the Past in 3D
My biggest problem with Ocarina Of Time. I'm not quite sure where to start. Well, the first major problem I experienced was a lack of direction. A lot of the time, you won't be given much information on where to go next. Asking Navi for time is a complete waste of time, as she only says the painfully obvious things and the completely useless things. Asking Saria ends up with the same result. Often, I found myself wandering trying to find B, or trying to find person X so that way I can receive something that I need to progress the gameplay. Second, the dungeons are just hair-rippingly frustrating. They're not that difficult, but rather most of the problems are usually that you can't find D, or you have to do something very off-the-wall and/or impossible to think of doing without someone telling you to. Another major problem is the beginning character, young Link. He's very weak, slow, and hard to effectively use in combat situations. He can't even wield the Hyrulian shield, for Christ's sake. Fortunately, you only have to play as him for the first three dungeons, then you can change in adult (even though he's only fourteen) Link, who kicks some major ass. Anyway, the worst part about OoT's gameplay is the controls, the awful, horrible, broken controls. OoT tries to implement a new targeting system, what with it being the first 3D LoZ, but it fails miserably at this task. L is used to target enemies and change camera direction.
>all of the people writing literal walls of text
why is this the only fucking game that can have actual debates.
There Is Mystery in Wind Waker, finding treasure, maps, a ghost ship, etc. there is none in Ocarina of time
Exactly this, which is why it's so perfect.
Music and the ocarina feature, bosses, temples, exploration, tone, pacing, visual style, all these things I would say Ocarina clearly does better.
I can't pinpoint a single error in this list if I could it would be my personal tastes telling what's wrong or right.
>its tone is a little confused and it doesn't quite know what it wants to be
I do agree with this. Overall it tries to look dark and edgy but it's never actually anywhere near as gruesome and grim as the Shadow Temple. The main quest actually gets more lighthearted as it goes on; most of the actual tension in the plot is all before you get the Master Sword. Compare the leadup to the Goron Mines, where you rescue Colin on horseback following a hoarde/chase sequence that ends with a climactic jousting match, to the leadup to the Temple of Time, where you...fly a golden chicken down, backtrack through the Sacred Grove, and fight Skull Kid again.
Bosses were lame, Temples all looked the same, Exploration is nullified by TP and BOTW Pacing? Good luck moving anywhere with the broken N64 control stick
There's tons of mystery in Ocarina. Everything to do with Kakariko Village is mysterious. The bottom of the well, the eye of truth, the Shadow Temple and what the hell was up with it, the skull kids in the forest, the song of storms, the sun's song, the gravekeeper, finding out what happened to everyone and to the world after going forward in time seven years, there's so much mystery packed into Ocarina and it does it much better than Windwaker. What an odd choice to claim does mystery better, you should've gone with Majora.
>Temples all looked the same
Just a shit post dude
I guess you never actually played OOT..sigh
because it's the greatest game of all time
Yeah all good points. I agree it gets oddly much lighter as it progresses. Even Zant goes from being menacing and foreboding to being some ultra wacky cartoon character later on.
There is a lot of dissonance in the tone. Sometimes it feels like it wants to be just a down to earth village tale - Link is this big village hero and you have those heartwarming moments with the other village kids and your primary motivation early on is to save them and heal the village. But then the game kind of just completely forgets about that and then it starts to feel more like Ocarina - the Hero's Journey, you're the chosen one who needs to fight back the darkness. Then it starts to feel a bit more like a folkore type thing like Ocarina but it never really fully commits to Ocarina's melancholy eerieness (ghost queen zora is the closest) or its moments of carefree brilliance. It tries to ride this middle road between all kinds of paths which is why it feels caught between so many things. One minute it feels like its trying to be gritty and dark and the next its straight up goofy.
I watched Citizen Kane recently and totally didn't get why it deserves this whole "greatest ever" status. I mean it was a pretty typical 40s/50s movie. Maybe it was special for the time, but I just found it boring mostly.
As for OOT, it has a special place in my heart, like many people here, but it's not really the greatest of all time.
I play it every year, sometimes multiple times a year
What a weird fucking post lol
When it came out, there wasn't anything like it. So it's praise comes from being revolutionary, and the basis of which several other games took inspiration from for their titles. It's similar to Half life 2. Play it today, and you might think 'it's just alright, why so much hype?' But you think that because you have played games admittedly better than HL2; but those games only are as good as they are because they used hl2 as the basis and inspiration for their success.
BOTW is the my favorite Zelda game I've ever played, and that comes from a guy who was there for OOT and MM. I love those games, but I think the criticisms levied at BOTW from Zelda faithful is 'but its not a Zelda game'. Well we got Ss and Windwaker which were 'zelda' games but they hated those too. I don't want to play the same game over and over again. I don't believe 'change' in and of itself is inherently good, quite the opposite sometimes, but the changes BOTW did with Zelda was much needed and breathed new life into what was frankly a dying series.
Based truth posting. Twilight was awkward af from beginning to end.
Never played it as a kid, played it a few years back and it was your bog standard adventure game. I don't care about influence or what made it great at the time, I just wanted a fun game, which I didn't get. You can't criticize Zelda, even for the most stupid things like Auto-Jumping/empty hub that's too big to waste your time. Ocarina of Time will eventually be seen as a tech demo (maybe it already is to kids today?). To people who obsess with this game, there's no reason to play it over any adventure game that came out after it (even back in 1998 there were loads).
At least Majora's Mask was unique despite running on the same horrible engine (17-20 FPS in Europe)
Yeah, There is mystery but being at sea not knowing what might pop up and sneaking into places was better than rolling across a field or riding a horse. Also the graphics don't hold up at all Looks terrible and the N64 controller was terrible. If you got your N64 in 1996, there is a good chance the analog stick would have been too loose by 1998.
>posts random list, thinking it proves his point
I really don't care what game Kotaku voted as best in 2009. Your list is at least 10 years out of date for starters. Literally kys
Also, arguing over which game is the "all time best" is just ridiculous in the first place. Just enjoy yourself, that is what vidya is for, despite what Yea Forums may think.
What's wrong with auto-jumping? Ocarina isn't a platformer, no reason to pretend that it is.
Windwaker was hated because it wasn't Ocarina, now years later its beloved. It's hard to follow up a game as beloved as Ocarina which is why its presence hangs so heavy over Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, but all took its yoke in completely different ways. Majora picked one aspect of Ocarina (eerieness) and went all in on it and ended up feeling like a companion game to it. Wind Waker tried to be as different from Ocarina as it possibly could. Twilight Princess tried to be as similar as possible.
Pull your head our of your arse dickhead, how the fuck are those things independent ....absolute state
>but being at sea not knowing what might pop up and sneaking into places was better than rolling across a field or riding a horse.
Completely subjective, good for you if you like sea stuff though I guess.
Fact, you faggots need to accept these and move on
> Half-Life 3 Episode 3 is never coming out, stop asking for it
> Ocarina of Time will always be recognized as the GOAT, just like Michael Jackson or Spirited Away
> Final Fantasy is dead & will never come close to it's glory days again
> Metal Gear Solid 4 & 5 wasn't canon, the series was originally written to end at MGS2
> Rockstar is the only company that actively benefit from Review score bonuses, which is why they always lose GOTY to Sony
> The Zelda timeline is convoluted bullshit & BOTW essentially rebooted the series
> Western AAA gaming is past the point of salvation, any game you think you are excited for will end up being garbage
> Shin Megami Tensei V will be cancelled, and is never coming out
> Pokemon is a dead corpse that has been brought back to life & raped up the ass repeatedly. The games will only get worse & worse as time goes on
> Ultimate is the last Smash game & we will likely see yearly fighter passes like Fortnite does with it's "Seasons".
> Most people. grew up with consoles & haven't heard about any of the PC games that boomers consider "Iconic".
> Influence is irrelevant to anyone who wasn't alive or old enough to play the game when it came out, stop crying as if it's a relevant metric for anything
> Contrarianism is just a coping mechanism people use to make themselves feel better about their shit taste
gets worse and worse with each greentext point
Those people are just N64 glorifiers
No Mario game will ever be as good as SUPER MARIO 64
No Zelda game will ever be as good as OCARINA OF TIME.
No Mario Kart will ever be as good as MARIO KART 64
What's the point of it? You jump as your character moves towards an edge based on how fast you are going. It's not broken, just weird and unconventional without making it any better. It's different for the sake of it, which is telling since no other game since has it. Pressing a button is more responsive, like in Tomb Raider pressing jump when you leave the edge with your right foot and push your character with your left. There's enough platforming in it even it's not a platformer,otherwise they would have put a canned animation as a jump if they didn't want it to have platforming, but they clearly did.
>spirited away
it's not even the best ghibli film bro
The worse you personally think it is, the more accurate the statements were
I loved the sailing. It left so much open to the player, leaving it up to the player's discression to explore or just go to the specified destination. It is part of Zelda format: you choose where you want to go, you are given freedom to explore and look around
Get killed zoomer
>(I never even liked the game either. It's like the Jurassic Park movies- hugely popular following but it's just not fun to me)
It is kind of weird to reflect on the fact that the Zelda series struggled with the weight of OoT's reception for so long that Twilight Princess, a game released nearly a decade later, imitates Ocarina of Time and calls back to it as many ways as it can without basically being a full remake.
If Zelda didn’t do it someone else would have. A big world to explore in a video game isn’t exactly an original concept. Z-targeting is about the only thing it did that had a lasting impact on gaming.
>What's the point of it?
To not have to dedicate an entire button just to jump? How is this not obvious?
Doesn't matter what you contrarians think, it's universally considered the greatest animated film of all time.
They already tried that, and they were fucking terrible. RE4 is the only game that came close to surpassing OOT in terms of critical acclaim, and that only lasted for one year
N64 IS THE GREATEST CONSOLE OF ALL TIME.....but those games have been surpassed.
I liked it too but I wish there were more islands to explore. A game that uses the same concept but has a Bethesda style setup of places and sidequests that you could never even go to would be a complete blast.
Well it makes the game less responsive when it's automatic. Makes the gameplay feel worse since there's plenty of platforming in it. That's the criticism.
>I liked it too but I wish there were more islands to explore.
There are 49 islands, according to Nintendo How many more do you want?
Nintendo literally planned on doing that for the 2006 3D Zelda, but had to cancel it due to America's autistic demand for a edgy & "Mature" Zelda game instead
Seinfeld effect, not necessarily the same as nostalgia.
There's not enough platforming to justify dedicating an entire button just to jump. And none of the platforming requires vertical control of jumping, so why does it matter? It works just fine and feels smooth. This literally set the standard for 3D Zeldas, why is there any need to control when you jump in this game? You would basically just be trying to imitate jumping right at the edge anyway lol and its not like that would take any skill so it doesn't remove any meaningful gameplay either. It never even crossed my mind playing it as a kid.
>I'll admit I wasn't around when the game released
Why are zoomies even allowed on the internet
The axe isn't a shitty tool just because the chainsaw exists
Some islands with actual interesting shit on them? And more than that would be nice too.There are 160 or so marked locations in Fallout 3, that would be a nice start.
120 total
Well to be honest Wind Waker 2 would have been a hilarious decision so I'm pretty alright with that.
It's still is worse than it's standard platforming. I don't care about the game's control scheme, if they wanted to make it better they could've changed the design, that's not a rebuttal.
>There are 160 or so marked locations in Fallout 3
Wind Waker came out in 2002. Fallout 3 in 2008 that's a 6 year ago difference and a generation jump.
This isn't really a critique of Wind Waker, just me talking about what I would want in a similar game made today. Okay the part about there not being a lot of interesting optional islands was a critique.
>It's still is worse than it's standard platforming.
What did he mean by this?
>if they wanted to make it better they could've changed the design,
At this point you're literally talking about a completely different game which would have been a platformer. Zelda isn't a platforming series, just go play Mario.
WW had the best story, characters, world building & atmosphere in the entire series. With more fleshed out dungeons, islands & actual ghost ships it would be the GOAT
Yeah, that would be like if Nintendo made a Sunshine 2. Nobody wants that
Alright now you're taking it too far
Threads about to be archived so go ahead and say what you want to say.
fuck niggers and fuck jannies
ahem
FUCK NIGGERS
FUCK KIKES
and most importantly, FUCK JANNIES
I bought this dumb game when it came out, tried it out for about half an hour and went right back to Quake 2. A few years ago I bought the 3DS version for my kid and he did exactly the same thing except with Roblox.
It's still is worse than it's standard platforming *conventions at the time* is what I meant to write.
Also that's a cop out from criticism. Devil May Cry isn't a platformer either so I can't say it has dog shit jumping for it's levels either? By that standard everything outside of it's intended genre should be inferior simply for the sake of it.
It invented Z targeting. That's it.
There's nothing "revolutionary" about OoT and your only defense is nostalgia.
Fuck you, Arin Hanson. Fuck you...
>It's still is worse than it's standard platforming *conventions at the time*
And it isn't a platformer.
>Also that's a cop out from criticism.
How? OoT, or any of the future 3D Zeldas, weren't designed with 3D platforming in mind. So why would there need to be a dedicated jump button? Its a completely nonsensical complaint. It's like complaining that an action game has no dedicated dodge button and if someone were to explain that it was designed from the bottom up for there to have no functional use for one you would say back them "Who cares? Redesign the game so it matters and then implement it! Gotta dodge!"
Adding a dedicated jump to OoT would change absolutely nothing in a positive way and it would actually trivialize some parts of the game making it actively worse.
>Devil May Cry isn't a platformer either so I can't say it has dog shit jumping for it's levels either?
Sure you can, but it doesn't really matter that much as a critique because as you said, Devil May Cry isn't a platformer. So even if it has shit jumping, who really cares? What's important is whether or not what Devil May Cry is actually trying to do well is done well.
What's next? Are you gonna complain that Resident Evil has no dedicated jump? Hitman? Metal Gear Solid?
>not even the best Zelda
maybe not if you prefer the 2D games. I can definitely concede to that, but in terms of 3D Zelda games none of the others have this one beat.
All the other games after it simply rehash the formula
OoT manages to have more full sized main dungeons than all the others except TP.
Dude, let it go. Its like trying to hold up windows 98 to windows 10. OOT has been surpassed. Its over. the gameplay is no longer relevant
Horrible attempt at condescension post, try harder next time. All you managed to do was make it obvious that you got argued into a corner.
lmao get wrecked
This but unironically. Zoomers trying to fit in seem to forget how beloved AC was back in like 2010, and especially how much it did for modern vidya in terms of mechanics, that whether well adapted or not in the future, at the time were new.
bait thread good job Yea Forums just fuck my shit up
Ocarina of Time still has platforming in it and it's not done well. Devil May Cry also has shitty platforming in it despite not being a platformer (just ask any DMC fan). Saying " well I don't care about this aspect ", this isn't an argument. It's platforming could've been done better even without a dedicated jump button. The game has platforming in it and you do it seldomly, that's a fact.
>Ocarina of Time still has platforming in it and it's not done well.
It has 2D platforming, which is done just fine and doesn't require a dedicated jump. What it doesn't have is 3D platforming, which if it did have that then yes, a dedicated jump would be needed rather than just contextual jumping. As a further note, the plaftorming in OoT isn't based on being able to measure your jump appropriately to land on the platforms, but instead the platforming is based around puzzling out how to align the platforms to go in a particular direction or timing your jump to a moving platform. For both of those goals, contextual platforming is completely serviceable and no meaningful functionality would be added by a dedicated jump command.
If you want to prove me wrong, explain how adding a dedicated jump would meaningfully improve OoT's gameplay. You can't, because the game is designed around not having a dedicated jump.
> Devil May Cry also has shitty platforming in it despite not being a platformer (just ask any DMC fan).
I am one. Yeah the platforming in DMC is kinda shit but
1. DMC has proper 3D platforming which OoT does not. DMC also has a dedicated jump button, so its apple to oranges along two different lines.
2. DMC isn't even really about platforming so while the sections are kinda ass, going to the effort to improve them would have some serious diminishing returns for the game quality. I'd much rather that effort get put into things like the combat and bosses.
> Saying " well I don't care about this aspect "
Never once said that. I explained why the aspect was unrelated to your critique. Time to refocus.
As further proof to my overall point, come to think of it rather than even trying to improve those platforming sections DMC games would be much improved simply by cutting them entirely. Because it isn't a platformer, doesn't have to be a platformer, and the platforming really adds nothing meaningful to the game. Not every game needs to be a crypto platformer.