What is the best Metroidvania game?

Hollow knight? more like hollow game

OoE is arguably not even a Metroidvania.

Is this game can be considered a Metroidvania?
>backtracking and grinding
>rpg elements and equipment
>platforming

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fpbp but circle of the moon is my favorite

>Guacstained
wrong, they're calling it Celesmanas, get your facts straight, you shitter.

Your all wrong.
They're called La-Hollow-Rain-Axiom-Cells-Alpha likes

OoE's level design is extremely boring.

I never really liked the term as a genre descriptor either. It always made more sense to me when limited to Castlevania in particular, in contrast to Classicvanias. I'm still relatively certain that's where the term actually came from, but I could be wrong.

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>Fucking awesome game and the glyph system was amazing
>Horrific difficulty with forced grinding
>Sometimes walking into the next room would spawn an enemy that would just murder your ass when you were cleaning house just fine
>As is tradition, certain glyphs required for true ending

I liked it, and it's definitely my favorite of the DS Castlevania, but it has some rough edges.

I liked PoR more tbqh senpaitachi

I would consider the villager hunting this game's equivalent of "relatively obscure thing you have to do to get true ending."
The glyph thing wasn't as bad.

Is that...Yang from RWBY??

It is. The story I heard about that is that Konami kept threatening to cancel the Castlevania series cause it wasn't doing pachinko and metal gear numbers, and Iga kept throwing himself at their feet to save it. So they kept giving him impossible tasks and threatening to cancel if he failed it. One of those tasks was to basically rush out some Castlevanias rapid fast in quick succession or they were done with. That's why the DS games reuse a shitton of content.

ESA2 when

You have an invincible dodge roll ability that can be spammed and still manages to get hit...

For me, it's La Mulana.

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Hollow Knight

LOL IMAGINE GETTING HIT ONCE IN A VIDEO GAME

most of the igavanias felt kind of like they were circling the pan fundingwise.

I have no idea why he got the funding to make a wii fighting game while the mainline games were underbaked.

Terarria

Of course it's one.

"Sylvania" is a common suffix, though. It means "nice woods".

preach it brother

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>metro android castle
I'm going to name my game like this.

hes a kotaku writer.

of course he's retarded.

>it's a city builder

Fuck that enemy forever. Viy lookin ass nigga.

I'm from Texas, I just know meaningless bullshit because I use my MS to win pub quiz instead of, y'know, working.

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Metroidvania is a stupid term because it isn't used appropiately.

A metroidvania is a game like Symphony of the Night. Super Metroid is NOT a Metroidvania. So why the fuck is the term "Metroid" even used?

"Igavania" makes more sense, because it describes games similar to the Castlevania games made by Igarashi: that is, games like Symphony of the Night.

Nips call it Search-Action

People use Metroidvania every time a upgrade opens a new path in a area you were in before

>Super Metroid is NOT a Metroidvania
yes it is.

>People use Metroidvania every time a upgrade opens a new path in a area you were in before
Yes, that's how they use it. But they aren't describing a Metroidvania that way, just a game that is like Metroid.

What makes Symphony of the Night different from Metroid is the added RPG elements. I don't believe Symphony of the Night is an RPG, and Hollow Knight certainly isn't one either, but it's clear Hollow Knight's ability to grind and acquire upgrades which you can't equip all at a time makes it closer to SotN and thus a proper Igavania-like.

>a portmanteau of two portmanteau is inherently bad
>these are the same kinds of retards that call any game harder than their journalistic peabrains can handle "the Dark Souls of--"
Rather than complaining about strictly the naming conventions of these types of games, he probably should adressed the fact most Metroidvanias are closer to Metroid's style of play than Igarashi's Vania games. As far as I can tell, SotT and its successors all had RPG elements added to the mix with currency, weapons, etc, that wouldn't otherwise see in Metroid. Some of these Metroidvanias don't incorporate those elements, but instead just use the base mechanics of "this power-up will help you transverse through inaccessible/unexplored areas now."

It isn't. It's just a Metroid game. A Metroid-like if it was called Super Honkers instead of Super Metroid.

what about games that are more similar to Metroid? honestly I feel like if they were going to use the name of a game for the genre it really should have been Metroid-like because all SOTN did was take that type of world design, add RPG elements, and make it more focused on melee combat with spells. This is the issue with using the name of a game to define a genre.

Yes. Metroid games are ususally metroidvanais though.

Metroid Fusion is not a metroidvania. Super Metroid is. Its a genre name. Like rougelike.

What's a rougelike?

>what about games that are more similar to Metroid?
That's what I mean when I say "Metroidvania" is a meaningless term because it is used to describe both "games like Metroid" and "games like Symphony of the Night", when these are similar but different games with their own nuances.

Games like Metroid = Metroid-like
Games like Symphony of the Night = Igavania-like, it's the best term I can think of that perfectly describes these games, since Igarashi has made quite a few games like Symphony of the Night already.

Hollow Knight is an Igavania-like, not a Metroid-like. If you strip all the cool upgrades from Hollow Knight, the heavy emphasis on acrobatic combat, and simply keep the upgrades that modify how you traverse the landscape, then it would be a Metroid-like.

>Yes. Metroid games are ususally metroidvanais though.
Granted I haven't played the Prime series. But every other Metroid game is just a Metroid-like.
>Its a genre name. Like rougelike.
And like "roguelike", it has been applied like shit. Which is why "roguelite" has become a thing, but even then people insist with "roguelike" when many "roguelikes" don't play like Rogue at all.

all metroid did was take that kind of game and put a few tweaks on it too. Generally all these games have a lot in common. The RPG elements in SOTN are fairly barebones.

a typo. roguelike is a genre where the name is derived from an example of it.

>metro android castle transylvania

I'd play that game

I've always wanted to get into Metroid (never played Castlevania) because I love sci-fi games and shooters. So it seems like the perfect game for me.

But the exploration is just so fucking BORING. There is literally NOTHING to help you. And what makes it even fucking worse is that you can't just go somewhere and then finish that area. That would be okay as a mapless exploration concept. Stumble across a random area, then defeat that area, then go and find another area and do the same thing. BUT NO. Instead you have to constantly fucking BACKTRACK because you will inevitably find that you can't complete one area until you get something from a DIFFERENT area and so on. And so it's just tons of boring fucking BACKTRACKING.

So yeah that's why I never really got into Metroid. I was a massive Halo fan though and still am. I just with Metroid was a bit more accessible then I think it would be a great game. Even Zelda is way more accessible than Metroid I think. Playing a Metroid game is like taking a fucking exam. Like a really fucking hard one. Where you have to constantly backtrack because the full details to the early questions aren't actually revealed until you get to the later questions.

>Granted I haven't played the Prime series. But every other Metroid game is just a Metroid-like.
So by arbitrarily redefining "metroidvania" to mean "metroidvania + rpg elements" rather than its agreed upon definition you are correct.

But thats not what the term means.

Nobody asked

Still kinda vague, like most genre labels.

>So by arbitrarily redefining "metroidvania" to mean "metroidvania + rpg elements" rather than its agreed upon definition you are correct.
Exactly.
>But thats not what the term means.
The term doesn't even know what it means, because as long as it is like Metroid = Metroidvania. Where's the "Castlevania" bit in that?

By using Igavania we are encompassing everything:

- The backtracking and exploration of Metroid, which inspired Symphony of the Night.
- The focus on combat, which was carried over into Symphony of the Night.
- The RPG elements, which were brought to the table by Symphony of the Night.

The first Metroid game is pretty hardcore imo, I'd recommend Super Metroid or Metroid Prime.

brainletize me capn

Petition to change the genre name to Kirbyvania. Much easier than trying to say metro android castle.

This is still my favourite kirby game.

>The term doesn't even know what it means, because as long as it is like Metroid = Metroidvania. Where's the "Castlevania" bit in that?
It doesnt matter. Its a word. Which has been used to define these games for like 15 years. And there isnt a better one.

Why don't we just call them Symphonies or Night-likes or something.

>ability acquisition based exploration action platformer
Here's your new genre name bro

>It doesnt matter. Its a word. Which has been used to define these games for like 15 years. And there isnt a better one.
I mean, it does matter. Because if I want something like Symphony of the Night and someone tells me "play Super Metroid bro" I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.
Sadly I can't think of a catchy term to describe Igavanias.

>he doesn't want to play Super Metroid
Son I am disappoint.

but Yea Forums told me Dark Souls was a Metroidvania

>I want something like Symphony of the Night
>play Super Metroid bro
>I want something with the RPG elements
Is that last reply too hard for your autistic ass?

I wanted to like ESA but the graphics were TOO le retro.
Its a shame because he clearly has a nice grasp on animation and design, everything is just so low res you can barely tell. Hopefully ESA2 fixes this.

>I mean, it does matter. Because if I want something like Symphony of the Night and someone tells me "play Super Metroid bro" I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.

Its the same fucking genre. Do you think that Far Cry 3 is an RPG or a FPS. I mean it has stats.

The only redeeming factor of this game were the bosses

Why the hell aren't there more multiplayer metroidvanias?
Never got to appreciate Amazing Mirror at the time but I'd kill for something similar. Even just a Switch port with splitscreen or online.

And that's how you've proven my point that "Metroidvania" as a term is meaningless.

I could never beat ESA, I ended up getting stuck pretty far in, but everything was always so cryptic, even for me that was too much. Even Hexen wasn't that bad with the hidden switches.

>Do you think that Far Cry 3 is an RPG or a FPS. I mean it has stats.
It's an FPS. If I want an RPG and someone tells me "play Far Cry 3 bro", I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves, because the RPG elements (stats) are secondary to the FPS experience.

I guess any genre that's not pinpoint accurate is meaningless then, hell, any word.
>I want an RPG
>play Dark Souls bro
>I want a turn-based one
And that's how I've proven that "RPG" as a term is meaningless.

>I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves, because the RPG elements (stats) are secondary to the FPS experience.
just like in SOTN

SOTN.

I don't even know why we still call it "Metroidvania" when Metroid has been defunct for such a long time, and Super Metroid has been outplayed by SOTN already 2 years after it came out.

If faggots can make up new genre titles such as spectacle fighter, they should come out with a new one for this genre too, because Metroid has no role in modern takes of it, and Super Metroid is hugely overrated anyway, and only liked due to the Nintendo bonus.

Its a terribly clunky and barebones game with shitty controls and shitty world/enemy variety, and even worse music.
Granted, its an SNES title so there's not much to expect anyway, yet it still fails.

What game?

Oh snap, there's already a discussion about the term itt. I didn't even know that when I posted this

Good for you Yea Forums, today you havent been a bunch of faggots.
Also, let me repeat it: fuck Super Metroid and especially the fags who put in on a pedestral and made me actually excited to play it for the first time. What an utterly forgettable and underwhelming experience that was. This game does not hold up.

Bloodstained is getting co-op.

Let's talk about Salt and Sanctuary.

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environmental station alpha is very good but its definitely super metroid (yes still)

Environmental System Alpha

Ty

And yet you felt compelled to reply, how curious?

I've actually played a bit of all three. I know you can get a map for the first Metroid (eventually published in Nintendo Power in one edition like a couple of years after the game came out or something), but that sort of feels like cheating.

Super Metroid, again, I just got bored after not very long.

Metroid Prime, I've tried playing it recently on Dolphin (it runs at 100% even on my shitty ultrabook just using Intel graphics), but again, it's just not that riveting. Maybe I'm just too old at this point. I just don't want to invest huge amounts of time into thinking about video game puzzles anymore. I just want to fucking shoot things and drive cars and that sort of thing.

I'm not trying to diss Metroid, they're clearly really good games, I'm just too impatient, that's what it is.

Symphony of the Night
>amazing and iconic Castlevania world design
>fluid level design, encouraging moving forward as opposed to jumping back and forth all the time as some other genre entries cheaply use as content
>fluid as fuck movement
>precise controls
>various ways to attack enemies
>great and creative enemy variety
>great boss variety
>great music
>great pixelart and amazing spritework
>doesn't overstay its welcome by being drawn out too much
>iconic as fuck and regarded as one of the best games of all time.

Now if you want to see the polar opposite, I present to you ""Super"" Metroid
>generic as fuck alien world which amounts to different tilesets on the edge of the screen to make impressions
>generic as fuck level design which is just flat corridors with the same background but in a different colour(oh wow this time its a green wall instead of a purple one! wooooo)
>simple and generic/arcadey enemy design, which's difference is often nothing but speed or being immune to some weapons
>simple and generic attacks for Samus that often just changes color of the projectile you're shooting
>bosses are NES tier and are laughably outdated on an SNES game
>generic music thats only remembered for its main theme and jingle
>sluggish moon controls
>padded as fuck
>only loved for nostalgia reasons and because its Nintendo's own first and last Metroidvania

I guess that's fair.

>archive.fo/AQ23k
>Video games need to be easier to parse, not harder. We talk a lot about diversity and inclusion in games—how we games could become a better, more welcoming space if we just figured out a way to represent more perspectives both in the games we play and in the studios that make them. These are necessary, urgent steps. But I also wonder how many people have never bothered because we’ve spent all this time using the wrong words.
>someone actually wrote this
>someone was paid to write this
The absolute state of games """journalism"""

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Not a Metroidvania, Action Platformer at best.

When will they learn that difficult games are ok and not all videogames are for you? Guess never if they keep getting outrage clicks for being retarded.

When people ask for RPGs they usually mention examples of what they want because RPGs come in different types. Some people will argue Dark Souls is more "action" than "RPG" and I understand where they are coming from.

The correct term is:
Open Platformer

If it's any consolation, these writers are barely paid. Why do you think they're so pro-socialism? Deep down they know they're in the bottom half of productivity.

Yes, but the existence of the RPG elements is what makes SotN an Igavania. Far Cry 3 is not an RPG just because it has stats. Neither is SotN an RPG just because it has stats. It has RPG elements, nothing moe.

Why, it's Portrait of Ruin of course.

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>doesn't overstay its welcome by being drawn out too much
I would beg to differ with the inverted castle

ITS A NON LINEAR 2D ACTION PLATFORMER

FUCK JOURNOS AND FUCK NIGGERS

Environmental Station Alpha.
Beyond just being a Metroid or a La-Mulana clone, it's an ode to the exploration games of old, the kind of title you'd imagine from the screenshots while browsing Computer and Video Games magazine in the 80s, the sort of game you wished your C64 or Amstrad could handle.
Underrated and definitely worth checking out if you're a fan of the genre or just games loaded with atmosphere.

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The problem is devs are listening to this worthless niggers.
Nobody gives a fuck how much money they are getting for their scramblings

I enjoy good pixel art but this is just out of control shitty

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>>Horrific difficulty with forced grinding
????
You can go through every area normally and beat enemies and bosses in a reasonable time
The only time you'd need to grind is maybe at Death or Dracula but even then that's the very end of the game
are you just bad?

Cave Story

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I had it on wishlist but the artstyle kinda put me off. It just looks so tiny. If it's really as good as you say then maybe I'll reconsider.

La-Mulana I guess. Though even my autism is stretched by some of the shit you have to figure out in that game.

Not a Metroidvania

>I'm just too impatient

To each their own. I didn't play SM until I was 20-something and I still think it's the best designed game of all time, but if you don't like exploration puzzles / backtracking it's simply not going to work for you.

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You wish.

strawpoll.me/18271387
be honest Yea Forums, I'm genuinely curious

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Made by one guy going for a specific sort of look.
Looks consistent in motion, something that can't be said about most "low-fi" indie pixel art games.
Pic related, an actual C64 game.

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It doesn't have any abilities you acquire along the way to unlock new areas and new places in already explored areas. The only one it has is the booster and only the 2.0 version is necessary for the best ending.
It's not a Metroidvania.

No need to go into details really, I have my own eyes

>we need to dumb down vidya for minorities
WTF i cant believe he just said that

Too bad it looks so dull. The atmosphere in that game is just eh. I don't hate pixel art but just looks so cheap.
Did you use a guide for some of the puzzles? I did, there's a great one on Steam that's literally 100% spoiler tags so that you can decide how much you want to know. I don't get why people get so angry about this shit, why spend 3 hours aimlessly walking around when you can just look it up.

are they required to write x amount of articles per week to keep or justify their job?

It's deep on my backlog because it intimidates me.

I looked like half the game up on the first one because I did not know what was I getting into.
Only asked one thing during the threads of the first week after release for 2 and they changed the tablet hinting what I needed help with so I don't feel too bad about it.
Answering for both because not sure if you meant that for 1, 2 or any of them.
I wouldn't say 2 was easier per se but after playing 1 you are more familiar with the game so it definitely felt easier for me.

My favourite of recent times is monsterboy in cursed kingdom. A very underrated game with AAA levels of polish and a massive adveture.

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I admit I looked up almost all of the challenging puzzles. I'm too lazy to write things down and keep track of details but still wanted to finish the game.

I wouldn't get your hopes up, he's just not a good artist so sticks to styles he can do easily.

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If you have the time, you might want to watch this before you decide. It explains its niche appeal very well.
youtube.com/watch?v=Bs7j1-am_YI

Interesting metroidvania.

Retard.

as long as the art style is consistent and doesn't make your eyes bleed and most importantly the gameplay makes it worth playing, I don't get why people complain about this stuff at this point. sure you can call it lazy or cheap I guess but if you can play retro games without complaining about their graphics then is it really a problem?

>Baba is metroidvania
what now

La-Mulana

Yeah, which is why ESA and Baba is You are both great games even though they look so simplistic

Also forgot to post what I needed help with, it was getting into the spiral boat, was tired after getting out of the Underworld and the image used for the hint misled me instead. They changed it afterwards to add the ladder.

Go play Azimuth. It's free.
mdsteele.games/azimuth/

It was made by the same guy you fucking dunce.

You can be an ode all you like, but that's not stopping the game from being 4 pixel shit.

>replying to someone making a joke out of the situation instead of the retard missing the point of the comment
Good job Anonymous.

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Out of the way, you plebs. This is the real answer.

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Nah, it's 4pixel gold, more worth your time than 10.000 Owlboys.

Someone remind me what the difference between La Mulana and La Mulana is?

Mate, honestly, it's an amazing game with solid gameplay.
It's also very cheap.
You're missing out on a very enjoyable game because how it looks.

The original is free but way worse

La Mulana

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Didn't have any impressive areas desu and bosses felt janky.

well you see son when a La Mulana and an El Mulano love each other very much...

kek

Looks good, I love Frog from CT and Porco Rosso so I'm already in

can't wait for ESA 2 honestly

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YOU IS GENUINE DICKSUCKER

not him but I personally think artstyle and graphics quality is pretty important in the genre because exploration and backtracking is a big part of it.

>We need to dumb games down and include minorities
And they say there's no agenda.

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>bosses felt janky.
It's because of 3D graphics.

shill

La Mulana sucks, it's the hipsters Metroidvania.

When is it coming out?

>Exploration-Based Action Platformers.
Thats more describing games like VVVVVV, Knytt, and You Have To Win The Game.

Bloodstained
La Mulana
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid
Aria of Sorrow
Dawn of Sorrow
Symphony of the Night (for soundtrack)

Off the top of my head. Now I need to read the rest of the thread to look for that tier list.

>been saying this for years
>now it's even easier to dismiss it because some dude at kotaku wrote a blogpost about it
Also just because the word Metroid was conceived by seeing what would happen when you mashed some words together doesn't mean the word is supposed to be a portmanteau, functionally. A lot of made up words are done this way, Metroids are a type of creature in the series that have nothing to do with androids or the fucking metro.

I don't think anyone posted that tier list image which has been making the rounds.

Is the original Metroid a metroidvania?

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Looks so much better than 1.

Character looks too tiny. And this is coming from someone who played, uh... that one where you're basically an egg and the whole game looks like MS Paint.

That boss is a dick in hard mode.

Yes. Metroidvania is - depending on who you ask - a catch-all term for Metroid-likes, Castlevanias in metroid style (Igarashi games), or games that play like the former (such as Symphony of the Night).

I can't believe they made Yea Forums a videogame boss.

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>Has better castlevania music than bloodstained

youtu.be/qqPXOm4_nVU

I wish artstyle didn't have that pokemon vibe

An Untitled Story was the name, I believe

shut the fuck up joshua

It's hardly arbitrary. Why would the features that Castlevania added not be what puts the vania in Metroidvania? Why can a game be called "Metroidvania" for featuring absolutely nothing Castlevania added? Why would Metroidvania not refer to the explicit combination of exploration and character progression introduced in Symphony of the Night when that game is what spawned the term to begin with? Why should Metroid games be forced to adopt a genre descriptor that is in part named for the series that took Metroid's formula and did it worse over a decade later?

soul
soulless

>let's not call it metroidvania
>why are we calling it metroidvania
>is this game metroidvania

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>Why should Metroid games be forced to adopt a genre descriptor that is in part named for the series that took Metroid's formula and did it worse over a decade later?
they arent forced to do anything, unless they want to be understood. I think Nintendo calls them action adventure games.

It is, you gain the ability to use elevators once you get to the wrong side of them

All you're saying is that using a broader definition would include a wider selection of games, which isn't really bad. People don't have difficulties understanding that Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man are all platformers despite heaps of differences in control and level design philosophies.

I'm really looking forward to Action Adventure Game Prime 4.

dumb waifufag scum

Shanoa isn't a waifu, she's actually a deep character and her story is one of the deepest and most engrossing a heroine has ever had.

Souls games are metroidvanias except they strip out the system where locks and keys are obfuscated into obstacles and abilities so they can instead use literal locks and keys because fromsoft doesn't know how to make it fun to control a character in a video game.

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>tfw none of my friends had this
Amazing mirror was nice, but I bet it would've been better if I had 3 others to play it with me.

this is definitive proof that the term Metroidvania is worth nothing nowadays, the only non-retarded use for the term is Metroid-like Castlevania games

>the only non-retarded use for the term is Metroid-like Castlevania games
this, but that's a little awkward to say, so may be could shorten it? like Metroidlevania or something like that

just use Metroidvania for what is actually a Metroidvania, and call the rest platformers

>Rabi-Ribi 2 barely a blip on the horizon
>ESA 2 still isn't even on the horizon
>Silksong is probably on the horizon but the aussie cunts are obscuring it

Jesus someone fucking end me lads.
I guess I'll just have to make do with Ori 2.

just call them nevergoingtobeasgoodassymphonyofthenights

and the game being 3D
and not focused on platforming
and there actually are abilities you get in the game through equippable items, though you can barely call them that
they're not Metroidvanias

>soulless
That's pre pre alpha footage from 2015, give it a rest.

>>Rabi-Ribi 2 barely a blip on the horizon
Wait that's confirmed?

FPBP

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Literally just git gud, retard. The game's perfectly doable on Level 1 Hard Mode, what the fuck do you mean forced grinding?

Just finished NG with my 2nd character: A wizard.

1st character was a mishmash hunter:
>DEX, WIL, STR
>whips, guns, swords, light armor
For wizard:
>roughly 50 MAG, some WIL to keep me casting
>daggers/whips 2/4 respectively, for WIL as well as Kaltic Razor or Sacrificial Garrote, for their hidden focus-refill-on-hit bonuses (which also apply to spells cast while wielding, for near-unlimited casting), light armor high enough for the black silk and alchemist's sets (as effective as they are cool-looking for a wizard)
Magic is so OP, but it does make you work for the good spells/equipment, and there are a couple bosses/enemies that will make wizard life hard.

Now working on 3rd character - Pirate build:
>STR, WIL, DEX, END (in that order of priorities)
>Crossbows/pistols 2, Swords 3, Spears/Polearms 1, Daggers 3, Hammers/Axes 1, Whips 2, Light Armor 3
>Hunter's Tricorne
>Officer's Frock / Hunter's Cloak
>Silver Udewa / Grim Bracelets / whatever gloves look cool or fitting
>Hunter's Boots / Officer's Jackboots / Corsair's Boots / Acolyte's Boots / Guide's Trousers / Black Slacks / Jester's Slippers
>Corsair's Backsword / Virulent Scimitar / Lowlander's Greatknife / Flint & Steel / Oar / Seawolf Cutlass / Castaway's Greatadze (if you end up getting Greathammers/Axes 5), everything else fair game within established proficiency levels

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The genre should honestly be called Zeltroid.

Zangetsu + Gebel + Metroid?

....Exploration Platformers, maybe?

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One of the few games I 100%'d. I fucking loved Aquaria

I suggest "shooto shooto jumpu jumpu"

Megaman-likes-but-with-backtracking

This. Zelda and Metroid are far bigger influences to the underlying philosophies of "Metroidvania" design than SotN. Like what the fuck did SotN even add besides RPG combat customization? Something that most modern metroidvanias don't even follow.

The problem is that there's just too many genres at play in the "metroidvania"-like formula to call it by game alone:
>Side-scrolling
>Platformer
>Open-world
>Action
>RPG
And then sprinkled with some bullet-hells here and collect-a-thons there for different game series. It's really hard to encapsulate all of those core things in just one or two words.

teleportin'

Exploration Platformer is a bit wider than just Metroidvanias but it's the best dscription for hte genre I feel.

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>leveling + different equippable weapons = RPG
nah senpai

ESA is fucking godlike and I wish that other games would be willing to emulate the insane puzzle shit the second half of that game becomes

Zelda did that too.

>bullet-hells

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Konami is satan we all know that.

Now that I think about it, Zelda and Metroid follow the same game loop.

there is barely any platforming in Castlevania.

The post game basically became La Mulana levels of puzzle bullshit.I had like 10 pages of notes trying to figure that shit out. Also tons of random secrets

Rabi-Ribi bosses are bullet-hells

But it is how you transverse the environments.
The mechanics are platformer mechanics.

What do you mean? I cant think of any decent modern metroidvania that DOESNT allow some rpg like character customization.

Then what the fuck is the point of having a platformer genre? Might as well just say 2D sidescroller.

store.steampowered.com/app/940910/Minoria/

Guys, Momodora 5 is 3D
Why did they do it?

I get it, "RPG" is a term with very vague guidelines, but, I mean,
>Levelling, XP
>HP/MP
>Stats (STR,AGI,END, etc.)
>Different equippable weapons, armors, accessories
>Visible damage/healing numbers for calculating DPS
>Collecting one-time or permanent items to buff stats or replenish HP/MP, either finding them or enemies dropping them
>Story-driven, characters are important, involved, and not just showpieces
Granted, there are lots of other things going on in addition to the RPG things (platforming, puzzles sometimes, arcadey combat), but what more would it need you to consider it an RPG? Would it simply need nothing else other than the RPG qualities it already has?

Thanks, would you recommend it?

>collect-a-thons
Honestly, 2d collect-a-thons would be a pretty accurate way of describing the genre, especially the later igavanias

"2.5D" like Bloodstained and Shadow Complex.

looks better than Bl**dstained at least

The terms really are starting to become synonymous. No one really makes 2D (or 2D-movement) side-scrollers that don't have any platforming elements anymore, mostly due to technological improvements in three-dimensional landscapes.

Yes because it's one of the best Metroidvanias you can play on PC

Silksong is probably early 2020. Without a fucking doubt in my mind. I would bet my fucking nut sack on it.
ESA 2 is fucking weird because I just don't know how Hempuli's mind works. Could be as soon as 2 years from now or maybe half a god damn decade.
Rabi-Ribi 2 or whatever the new game is called is way too early to judge. Probably 3-5 years from now.
Also Ori 2 is a bit weird to me because the devs keep mentioning how they "want to perfect the metroidvania genre" with that game but that seems like such fucking dumb hype talk when the first Ori was barely even a metroidvania. At least they got the AM2R guy in the dev team but that's about it.

The only problem I have with this game is muted colors, It's like I wanted to crank up brightness a bit as soon as I started watching the trailer.

>the devs keep mentioning how they "want to perfect the metroidvania genre"

sauce?

Momodora 5 was going to be a full 3d action game but got cancelled because it looked like shit.
He's making a 2.5d game now to learn how to make 3d look good.

what's up with all those Metroidvania bait threads?

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>Ori was barely even a metroidvania
stop with this meme.
Ori is more metroidvania that fucking Bloodstained
Their studio is notorious for trying to make as polished game as it possibly can be that's why Ori was so good and that's why It takes them so long to release a sequel.

>what's up with all those Metroidvania bait threads?
bloodstained came out recently

Kotaku made an article

Genuine question for anyone that's gotten past the post game of ESA
Is it worth it to continue figuring out puzzles if one of the big draws of the game was the bosses?
I lost steam after I realized there wouldn't be any more bosses after I unlocked boss rush, or at least I think there wouldn't be.
Also can someone give me a general idea of how close I was to being done with the post game shit, I made it to the big clock and did like 2 puzzles before I dropped it.

The dev's rationale IIRC is that they wanted to make a high-definition 2D game, but doing that with entirely hand-drawn assets is difficult for a small team.

I think it's likely because of the Kotaku article. As much as Yea Forums loves to proclaim their dislike for e-celebs, journalists and all that, they follow them closer than anyone else.

>Ori is more metroidvania that fucking Bloodstained
L M A O

Oh, I see. Thank you

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>tfw still can't pull this off

I remember one of the devs post on """resetera""" about it a year ago maybe. Here's one of the sillier things they said in that circlejerk.

>>Our combat system for example is much deeper and much more intricate than what any other Metroidvania has done so far and I think people will objectively be able to agree with that. Every single one of our weapons has their own animation set, it’s an animation-commit combat system where we control timing based on the actual animation frames. I don’t think it’s even fair at all to compare what 2d games before WotW did with WotW in that regard since we’re obviously using super advanced tools and built everything upon a super strong foundation. Most Metroidvanias including HK trigger a simple animation and spawn a little effect when you press the attack button - we obviously went way further than that. I don’t feel super comfortable talking about this stuff since I’m one of the developers and it could quickly sound like I’m downplaying other games that came before, but this is just how art develops: Someone does something and then the next person pushes that even further and further - I still think in terms of platforming Ori is one of the best games out there in the genre and this time the goal was to do the same for combat... and everything else :D
That's just one of the many obviously hyperbolic hype answers they gave in that thread.

The clock and maze is basically the last part but it takes a while and requires a lot of remembering shit.
It really isn't worth to do it honestly, the research outpost postgame was definitely worth doing but you can pretty much just stop after that and look up the ending for the puzzle shit.

It's more of a spiritual successor, but the Dev's been posting work on a new game for months now.

The sad part is these chucklefucks probably haven't played Valdis Story. The metroidvania with the best combat system in the genre.

Yeah I'm sure he's being hyperbolic about the game with 50 man dev team working on it for over 4 years with infinite Microsoft money backing it having better production values and tech backing it than HK or your average 2D game.

I never see anyone talk about Valdis Story.

After beating the blue dude the second time you're done with bosses

>MORE PEOPLE AND MORE MONEY = GOD GAME

Need I remind you that some of the best games in this genre were only primarily developed by 3 people max?

I've always wondered why there wasn't a common phrase to refer to Mega Man and Kirby sort of games distinctly from the Mario and Sonic style of titles.

2D: SotN and Valdis Story Abyssal City
3D: Castlevania Curse of Darkness

Does anyone know whether Dark Flame is coming out at all?

Not even a metroidvania. Order of Eccesia is the most linear and shallow game of all igavanias.
PoR is a gorillion times better.

Wait Baba is you was made by the ESA guy?
Damn, i might have to check it out since esa is fucking sweet

Based. True patrician's choice.

I guess it's a mix of characters and "specific execution".
If i say "classic megaman game" people understand what i'm talking about.
If i say "megaman X game" people know that it's not the same thing.
If i say "megaman Z game" they know it's yet another group.

If i say "the gunvolt IP is a spiritual successor to MMZ", people know what i'm saying and understand it's not the same thing as MMX or classic megaman.
Sounds confusing, but once you've played at least 1 game from each of these, you understand wich is wich.

No its because the keep fucking up their moves and back stepping into you. Bosses are hot garbage.

Get bloodstained out of here and it'll be an alright list.

Rainworld is strictly an exploration platformer. Not metroidvania.

It's the hardest fucking puzzle game ever.

I know, that's why I posted it while saying Exploration Platformer was more broad

with medieval castles in a cyberpunkish dystopian future

I've noticed something.
It used to be that classicvania fans were cynical, anal cunt constantly complaining about everything and being bitter as fuck.
Metroidvania fans were the younger, fresher castlevania fans that prioritized fun and had SOUL.

But now, the've become the new classicvania fans.
Classicvania fans have become so old they're now mellow and a mostly quiet minority, and metroidvania fans have taken they place being horrible, anal cunts that constantly complain and aren't fun to be around.
Is this a curse?
Is it being passed on from one side of the fanbase to the other?
Is the ultimate fate of any clastlevania fan to become a spergy cunt nobody likes?

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I thought it was because every boss has a massive telegraph for each attack and becomes absolutely trivial once you have even decent shards.

How many times must we tell you its hollow knight?
Although it may be silksong in due time.

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But Hollow Knight is pure trash

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wow i hope nobody reads all this shit. your time is valuable, friends.

Doesnt even fucking matter because the balance is so shit that you don't even have to dodge reliably to destroy them. I just spam the good shards. God i miss PoR. Might play the ds games again after this trashfire.
Hollow knight is an excellent action platformer but is a painfully average metroidvania.

Not liking popular thing doesn't make you interesting.

How's Curse of the Moon?

what tier list

It's not a metroidvania but I liked it

What Tier List
Top tier:
What

Low tier:
what

Bad tier:
waht

Something being popular doesn't make it good

hmm
yeah i think i like it

Indeed but hollow knight is good. It has great boss design with zero bullshit unavoidable attacks while still being challenging an unique artstyle great soundtrack and serviceable platforming. The combat is simple and the notch system is a but unbalanced but it works. The map is very competently designed too.

>not a metroidvania
Excuse me while I sweep up the pieces of my broken heart.

>retards don't even know enough about FortuneRibis to get the genre right

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Wait Fortune Summoners is a Castlevania-like?

>So why the fuck is the term "Metroid" even used?
because SOTN, the game the genre was named for, famously copied elements from Super Metroid. You're right that super metroid isn't a metroidvania, because it's just a metroid game. it doesn't have the "vania" elements that Symphony added, but dropping Metroid from the genre makes no sense when the most iconic things about the genre are the metroid elements.

Side-scrolling adventure.
I believe that's close to what the nips call it.

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no, it's not that much like Castlevania, it has exploration and RPG elements, so it's more complex than that old NES jump and whipper.

>As much as Yea Forums loves to proclaim their dislike for e-celebs, journalists and all that, they follow them closer than anyone else.
youtube.com/watch?v=IhLYfLmKMFg

ori and blind forest

At least it has a decent-looking aesthetic.
Also, I own Momodora 3 on Steam but I've never played it. Is it okay to jump in there?

lol wut

The first two are short and free

rdein.itch.io/

This is fucking retarded.

Meteoidvania's have key elements shared in all of them:
-Movement item progression tied with revisiting areas to progress
-Map systems
-Clear enemy progression in the form of levels or more powerful upgrades to defeat more powerful foes
-Variety of equipment for customized playstyles

All of these are indicative of a Metroidvania. The vania term, yes, was added with the addition of SotN, but it's a term that still works.
Also, fuck this article for trying to dissect the word Metroid when it's a creature in the game that is definitely not a metro android.