Untitled

Just finished my second playthrough of the game this time with restored content. You can really see the difference especially at malachor and the ship interactions. The hk factory was cancer though and I just activated turbo and invulnerability and straight ran through it.

>Obsidian make a Villain that can force drain entire planets
>Bioware's face when they retcon him out of existence and then make their own villain with the same power BUT BETTERER AND FASTER THAN SONIC

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>mfw I solve a puzzle in kotor without googling the answer

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Not his fault his shit got cut

And he was a good friend

>It's NOT a phase mom, I really do love the exile and being a sith

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>its such a quiet thing to fall

I remember playing this on xbox as a lad and sometimes not being able to hear him over the music. And what the fuck was Atris' deal? Was that cunt on the rag?

she wanted that exile dicking but he was too busy causing mass destruction

Yes? Have you come with questions?

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NO! SHUT UP!

Don't bully grandma Kreia, ok? She had a hard life

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Oh no. Oh dear. I'm sure none of that was her own fault.

NONE

yes tell me more about those "indignities" you suffered grandma

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so was kreia right? was the force controlling people or was it freedom of choice that influenced peoples leaning towards the light and dark sides?

For what reason?

Next time you're prepared. Give him a blaster rifle decked out with ion upgrades and just master rapid shot everything down in seconds. Level up his demolition and craft 50 grenades for him if that still isn't fast enough.

she's wrong, the real problem is the absolutism of the jedi order when it comes to emotion (or rather being unwilling to entertain positive emotion) helps revive the dark side whenever it's btfo

well it always came off to me she wanted to get rid of the force because it would be the only way people could be free to choose without influence from it
I don't know

Yes. The force just leads people to fight out the same grudge match time and time again. Any good force users perform is negated by the many, many lives they've destroyed.

Atris wanted the Jedi to go to war against the Mandalorians too, but was too hesitant to go against the opinion of the council. Then you went like a chad and crushed Mandalorian fucking shits, becoming the hero she wanted to be herself. Admiration, self loathing and jealousy then led her to become a vindictive and self righteous cunt to you.

Can we all agree that KOTOR 2 masters story telling and that KOTOR 1 masters setting?

Every time I say I like K1 best people freak out like I think K2 is shit but really I just prefer setting and theme building to plot and characters building.

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is the force even a sentient thing?

is that from tor? can you link video of that character or something please

Yes, she was right.
The Force has guided people so they can restore the Sith or the Jedi Order over and over and over and over.
The entirety of the Legends chronology is nothing but one side getting wiped out and the other side reigning supreme till the Force helps some literal who restore the wiped out side and destroy the other side.
The galaxy will be stuck on a loop of Jedi and Sith faggotry till someone does something about both of them.

Yeah, I like that way of breaking it down. I prefer 1 to 2 as well but I still love both.
Soule's OST is what puts 1 as god-tier in my book.
The only standout track in 2 is Rebuilt Jedi Enclave.

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>Tenebrae—known to the Old Sith Empire as Vitiate, his reconstituted Sith Empire as the Sith Emperor, and his Eternal Empire as Valkorion—was an ancient dark side entity of enormous power who manipulated galactic affairs for 1,500 years.
>Born in 5113 BBY as the illegitimate Sith son of Lord Dramath, Tenebrae carved a path of destruction across the planet Medriaas, torturing and massacring thousands by the age of ten. When Dramath confronted him, Tenebrae severed his father’s power and imprisoned his spirit for millennia of torment. Eventually, the Dark Lord of the Sith Marka Ragnos recognized Tenebrae's power and christened him as Lord Vitiate—the new ruler of Medriaas. Vitiate renamed the world Nathema and ruled it for the next century, distancing himself from Sith power struggles. Following Naga Sadow’s defeat in the Great Hyperspace War, Vitiate lured the remaining Sith Lords to Nathema and, in an elaborate ritual, drained their life essence and that of the entire planet, increasing his powers and prolonging his life.
>Shedding his identity as Lord Vitiate, the self-proclaimed Sith Emperor led the scattered Sith survivors to Dromund Kaas and established a new Sith Empire. As the Empire secretly expanded over the next thousand years, the Emperor discovered the lost world of Zakuul and the Eternal Fleet—an ancient armada with unmatched technology. Dissatisfied with Sith ideology, the Emperor transferred his essence into a Zakuulan warrior named Valkorion and created a vast civilization known as the Eternal Empire. The Emperor desired absolute immortality to experience and expand his new creation across galaxies, so he plotted to initiate a war between his Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic. The deaths caused by the conflict would fuel a new ritual that would allow him to consume almost everything in the galaxy and become an all-powerful god.

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Look at the history of the galaxy and you'll see that she was. Though she acknowledges that perhaps its just the dogmatism of its adherents.

God, her voice actor did amazing job.

I think Kreia suspected the Force to have a will that it enforces through sensitives, but wasn't sure.

What she was sure about is that giving a select few space wizards unlimited powaaah is is a bad idea for galactic life.

>As the Emperor’s plans neared completion, he orchestrated the Mandalorian Wars as a preliminary invasion of the Republic, but two powerful Jedi Knights—Revan and Malak—defeated the Mandalorians and tracked down his Sith Empire. The Emperor dominated their minds, but the pair soon broke free from his control and betrayed him—and each other—in the resultant Jedi Civil War that nearly destroyed the Jedi Order. A redeemed Revan waged a mental war against the Emperor, delaying the Great Galactic War by three centuries. The Sith Empire still nearly conquered the Republic, but Revan further influenced Vitiate—distracted by the births of his children to the Zakuul Knight Senya Tirall—to sue for peace instead, prompting a decade-long Treaty of Coruscant.
>As hostilities resumed, Dark Councillor Darth Baras lured the Emperor to the planet Voss, trapping him in the domain of the dark side entity Sel-Makor until rescued by the Emperor's Wrath. Freed, the Emperor attempted to initiate his galaxy-wide ritual, but a powerful Jedi Knight known as the Hero of Tython thwarted his efforts and destroyed his Voice—a host body that encapsulated his essence and power—in battle on Dromund Kaas. His wounded spirit went into slumber on Yavin IV until a returned and crazed Revan attempted to resurrect the weakened Emperor to a physical form to permanently destroy him. Although Revan's plans were foiled, the Emperor's spirit fed off the battle and reawakened, then struck against his former Sith Empire and consumed the planet of Ziost to return to full power.

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I fucking loved this scene.

>Reassuming the visage of Valkorion, he revealed the Eternal Empire to the galaxy as his twin sons—Arcann and Thexan—invaded the known galaxy and captured a famous champion later known as the Outlander. Judging the Outlander alone to be a worthy adversary, Valkorion orchestrated his death at the hands of Arcann and embedded his consciousness within the Outlander's mind. Valkorion counseled and shaped the Outlander into a vessel of supreme power as the champion defeated Arcann, then his daughter Vaylin, and disabled the Eternal Fleet. However, Valkorion revealed that he had allowed his children to conquer the galaxy so that, once overthrown by the Outlander, he would take over the champion's body and rule as a heroic liberator. In a final clash of wills, the Outlander, aided by Valkorion's own family, overpowered the ancient entity, sending him into oblivion.

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Thanks. Yeah I looked into sith emperor back when tor was out for some time, didn't know he was consuming planets like nihilus. The whole immortality gimmick seems lame too, even though it gives them the chance to reboot the character every single time players defeat him, but that seems annoying since his only motivation seems to be "get more power". Visually that bearded guy with two sons seemed interesting though.

>no option to give Atris a hard dicking
Fuck you, Obsidian.

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His immortality has nothing to do with players defeating him.
As far as the story cares, his Voice is killed by the Jedi Knight character once, then his Valkorion body gets killed by his son and then the Outlander (who is either the same character or one of the characters from the other classes) kills him outright.
Him being immortal is only used to explain why he has been around for centuries and so he can come back no matter how times he is killed till the last fight.
The other user was right, he is Nihilus 2.0 with all the cool powers and none of the nasty side-effects. The worst part is that the Exile fights him in a novel but she doesn't bring up the similarity to Nihilus or to herself because the KotOR1 writer wrote that novel and he didn't give a fuck about KotOR 2.

how and why was she so based? easily one of, if not the best character in the game.

>First time playing years ago
>See Sion
>"Oh wow could this guy be any more fucking edgy? What a retarded idea."
>Turns out to be the most fleshed out antagonist and one of the best characters

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Sion with a Female Exile > Sion with a Male Exile

>wanting to have sex with a deluded old woman

Maybe, but male exile is better in every other way.

>not curing her autism with your vitamin D
Also, jedi age slower than regular people.

She's still like at least 65 years old user. Way older than the exile

>Romance option with Visas
>Get's handmaidens passive bonus which is massively important for casters
Thank god mods exist.

>at least 65
You pulled that straight out of your ass.
She's a few years older than exile at best.

G͢I͢V͟E̕ H̛̛E̶R̕ ̨T͘͢H̵͢Ę̶ ̀͘͜D̕͢I͢C̷͟K̵,̨̛͟ ͠A͞͞N̵̢O̢͜͝N͜

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You have exact two dialogues with him, and the first one goes like "oh, hey, Exile, I'm gonna kill you now! - Sure!". Best character ever.

Her white hair is natural, she is not an old lady.
She even mentions she was pals with the Exile back when they were in the Jedi Order and would have followed him had he asked.

Of course she was right. The thing is people just say it so often that no one really noticed it. Whenever something needs to happen its always the "will of the force" or something. Why? Well, no one really knows, because its always used as a bullshit excuse by the writers, however the only constant is that there is supposed to be a balance of the force, where users of the light side reign supreme.
If the force really is a living thing, then maybe it just does what any living thing wants, to continue its existence, and so like a parasitic symbiote knowing that people who use a corrupted, dark version of the force reigning supreme will eventually lead to everyone being dead, it does everything it can to make sure that such people are killed, and only the ideology that preaches subservience to the force remains.

>she would've defied the council for you if you just asked
>you just kinda forgot about her
No wonder she was so pissed.

>After the end of the Great Sith War that was started by the Sith Lords Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma, the Jedi historian Atris attempted to revise the broken system of Jedi apprenticeship
Great Sith War ended: 3996 BBY
Atris must be at least 20 to be a full Jedi.
>In 3951 BBY, Meetra Surik and her companions landed on Telos IV
+45 years

She's gotta be in her 60's at least.

>fish scale leggings

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The Force has guided the likes of Exar Kun, Darth Bane and Darth Krayt into bringing the Dark Side back to power.
The Sith are as subservient to the Force as the Jedi, they just fool themselves into thinking they are using it as a tool instead of being slaves to it.

"After" is not an exact year, user, sorry.
You're basing your argument on a really relative term.

sorry you are right.

>After the end of the Great Sith War
That doesn't mean she did right after the war ended, it could have been decades later too, the wording is vague as fuck.

Gas all Mandos.

the zhug family are the greatest villains in history

It's okay, she's probably 40+ just like the exile.

The Exile strikes me as someone in his early 30s.

I thought he was supposed to die while helping Hk-47 sabotage Hk-50, which is why there are those force fields his hand can destroy, but somehow they magically vanish when Hk-47 clicks at them too.

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Theme/s is/are the message/s that you wish to discuss through story. Story is everything from characters, to plot, and setting. I think that what you mean to say is that K2 tells story predominantly through character, and K1 tells story predominantly through plot. You might therefore say that K1 more faithfully reproduces the 'setting' (rather narrative style) of Star Wars.

Though in essence all plots exist to serve character because you cannot have an interesting story without character development.

Pretzels are weak

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Yes, Force is a tool used by creatures called Whills by which they control universe.

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Imagine if those holocrons screamed at Atris for decades to have sex and children.
No wonder she went insane.

>Also, jedi age slower than regular people.

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Why do authors assume we want to know everything that they know about their setting? Is it autism?

>Tatooine
Not even once.
The official explanation is that the radiation from the twin suns ages you a lot faster.

I'm fairly certain in earlier drafts the Clone Wars were much further in the past. The way Leia said that line strongly implied that it was fairly old history to her.

They lie and manipulate.

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The exile will help me become a pretzel!

>The only standout track in 2 is Rebuilt Jedi Enclave.
youtube.com/watch?v=FWdCpYse1Es
youtube.com/watch?v=OsMgL8uMGKI
youtube.com/watch?v=cCP9sb4ihcw
youtube.com/watch?v=7DtVBD6W5_A
youtube.com/watch?v=GF0hgaFSZkM
youtube.com/watch?v=ppwLAWpBrDw
Desu I like Kotor 2 music more because while different it perfectly fits SW. Kotor 1 music doesn't feel like Star Wars but like it's own thing and some it's tracks constantly remind me of TES which throws me out of the game.

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KOTOR 2's soundtrack is absolutely fantastic. It's broody and melancholic, just like the game. Just listen to the the disgusting over the top saccharine soundtrack of the first game. Meanwhile 2's Ebon Hawk song is brilliant.

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AYO HOL UP

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even Vampires is getting a sequel
when is it our turn, bros?

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Yeah KOTOR 2's soundtrack is better than 1. I love Jeremy Soule's work on 1, but KOTOR 2 definitely hit the notes right on the game's mood.

No, they make up excuses to keep making money. Very few people have the integrity to say "the story is done, I'm finished."

Fuck off with that cancer of an MMO.

It's a pretty easy avenue to go down once you run out of original ideas to expand the setting. You can just make bullshit up about all the old shit. See: Kojima and MGS4, PW, V

What is about TOR cutscenes that somehow makes them feel worse than already stiff Kotor 1/2 ones?

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Wasn't he making the ebon hawk's repair?

>Heeeeyy eeexxiiilllleee
>You should call Kreia a boomer and tell her to shut the fuck up

Old Bioware vs nuBioware (a division of EA (tm))

>spent years in a chamber filled with shitposting holocrons
I pity her.

I would buy a shitposting sith holocron.

>He died in the crash at malachor
There's not even a mention of his death. The PC just wakes up from the crash and moves into malachor. It's pretty jarring because the game is unfinished

>Exile and Revan get into a relationship
>she's his true love
What sense does this fucking make?

>There's not even a mention of his death

It was one of the few genuinely unfinished things in the game. 90% of the stuff is actually in the game's files, just unimplemented, but Bao-Dur's death is outright nonexistent. He was supposed to die in the HK-50 Factory.

Literally never happens.

None because they're bros, not fags.

she's so cute

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kek

No and that's the irony of her character. She herself is a tool used by the Force and has no understanding of it outside Jedi and Sith teachings.

The reason why Kreia is wrong is due to Avellon. The concept he conceived of the Force mostly came from the EU which recycled the Jedi/Sith plot for centuries. This was never Lucas's intention which explains the Chosen One. The Sith were an imbalance created by a sect of disillusioned jedi. They turned and overthrew the Jedi and Republic only to fall into infighting. When this happens the remnants of the Republic and Jedi launch an assault and destroy them. Bane is the sole survivor and starts plotting. Fast forward to TPM and the Sith are about to enact their revenge in which they succeed until Anakin destroys them permanently. In Lucas's canon, the Sith did not have dozens of wars against the Jedi stretching back millennia. They only fight twice in a period of 1500 years. There is no cycle like the EU suggested and where Avellon got it wrong. But it makes sense because Lucas never considered the EU canon in the first place.

She's cutest when you make her mad.
That dialogue was based. Too bad you don't get more interaction with her until the end.

Kotor 2's music fits the setting way more, but IIRC Kotor1 was the first Star Wars game ever to use a soundtrack that wasn't just ripped from the movie scores, so it's at least got an excuse as to why it feels a bit off.

What was up with this promotional art? These two characters never ever meet each other and Atris representing the Light Side is fucking hilarious considering she already fell by the time you meet her.
Was this based on some scraped content or did they just draw it because it looks cool?

>No and that's the irony of her character. She herself is a tool used by the Force and has no understanding of it outside Jedi and Sith teachings.

Kreia highlights this very fact herself. She says that she is a hypocrite who has become reliant on the very thing that she hates.

>the rest of your post

Nobody gives or gave a fuck about what Lucas himself thought about canon. He retroactively changed his own movies half a dozen times.

Wow it's almost like the game is part of the old EU/Legends canon instead of whatever the fuck Lucas canon was, you fucking retard.

It has some neat stuff here and there.

They're going for really cinematic shots and sequences with shitty animations.

Exile...

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>He retroactively changed his own movies half a dozen times.
God forbid someone change their mind in a period of 40 years

>what is death of the author

Star Wars was too good for a colossal spastic like George 'I may have gone a bit too far in some places' Lucas.

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First time you talk to her is one of my favorite parts of the game.

You mean not dykes and that's nowhere near certain.

>no jealous Atris somewhere in the distance
One job.

>implying she'd ever leave her lair

His critique of Star Wars falls flat because it's a take on the EU/fanon not what Lucas wanted.

>female Revan
>female exile
Just no.

>Dark Jedi are bad enough, but when a woman falls to the dark side, you better space yourself before they catch you.

Aimo. Damn that gives me some nostalgia, love her KOTOR stuff

Who gives a shit what Lucas wanted? Lucas himself didn't even know what he wanted. Everything about his vision was disjointed and ever-shifting. Even forty somewhat retarded authors and autistic comic book writers had more of an idea about what the Force should have been like than Lucas.

Furthermore, why would it fall flat by virtue of it being reflective of EU when the game itself is part of EU and its playerbase made up of Star Wars fans, not weekend warriors.

KotOR 2 is part of the fucking EU and its criticisms were based on shit from the EU.
Lucas has barely anything to do with his shit and his canon was always a different thing from the EU "canon" so there is no reason to bring it up or use it to claim Kreia is wrong.

>Star Wars was too good for a colossal spastic
It was a fun fantasy but nostalgic faggots like you ruined it because everything has to be your childhood all over again.

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Given Nihlus is a dark side fuck up, it makes sense that a light side fuck up is pictured with him.

She states the Force is evil which is wrong.

>that cringey pic
kys

>that comic
how fucking butthurt does someone have to be

>tfw the bar is set so pathetically low that your own strawman is better than the movie

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>These two characters never ever meet each other
but Atris is the one who leaked Kataar and Telos to Nihilus

The recurring conflict in the EU does make it a viable interpretation of the Force and that has nothing to do with what you were saying before.

>Even forty somewhat retarded authors and autistic comic book writers had more of an idea about what the Force should have been like than Lucas.
>most eu authors thought the force was being a super-powered superman sayain badass
I guess most people never listened to Yoda in ESB

seething

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She leaked it by allowing others to find out about the meeting, not by calling Nihilus and telling him "hey bro, there are some tasty Jedi meeting in this place, you might want to go and eat them or something".
She didn't even know what the fuck she was facing back then.

Why did he have such a soft voice

I don't know, K2 nails its setting, it's very depressing and drab

>Pablo Hidalgo
double kys, that guy is the biggest Disney cocksucker around and a massive SJW.

This doesn't make sense because per the OT the dark side is something a Jedi always has to be vigilant against and is always at risk of falling to if they are not mindful of their actions and emotions. It's nonsensical to think that the Sith are the only Jedi to ever fall to the Dark Side. The Sith may typically embody the dark side of the conflict but the conflict is a natural part of the Force and thus life itself, it is present in all living things because the Force flows through everything. There will be conflict as long as there are people who use the Force, and that's Avellone's point, not the semantics of who calls themselves what.

It's based on incorrect information from dozens of authors who frequently contradicted each other. Authors kept remaking Sith vs Jedi because they needed the fans to feel familiar with something. Avellon became disillusioned with this. That was never the intention. So calling the Force evil because writers are uncreative is a bit harsh.

I love it. They have absolutely no clue what went wrong, and they're going to fuck up 9 even harder.
They're going to pull off in 5 years what the holiday special, prequels and worst of the EU never managed.

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>So calling the Force evil

Except he isn't doing that. Kreia is wrong. She is manifestly incorrect and the game makes it pretty obvious that she's wrong. Alternatively, if she's not wrong, it's that the entire 'hurr durr I want to destroy the Force' objective is an actual lie. Her real goal is simply to play the villain, to be the Betrayer and get you to Malachor V to achieve your destiny. On the other hand, Kreia is more likely just a mental old woman that both the Sith and Jedi have rejected which she is salty over.

I listened to all 6 and while I confess to getting hit with decade-old nostalgia, I stand by what I said. It's a good OST but Rebuilt Jedi Enclave is the only one that I'd go back and listen to over and over (and have).
In contrast Soule's stuff has been a constant in my music library since I've had one.
What stands out about 2 is its writing and story. Kreia especially, not the ambience or music.

I listened to the 5th one and couldn't see the name on the preview; but the scene of Sion slamming Kreia's head into the wall came suddenly into my mind at 1:16.
Then I saw the name and realized it was the Kreia's Fall theme.
I'll give you that; powerful associations there. Thanks for the reminder.

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Citation now, nigger. Stop rewriting history, Disney's already going to have to do that to flesh out canon

No, it's perfectly fair and a logical criticism of the setting. The authors fucking up only makes this criticism more appropiate.

>Everything went exactly the way you wanted it to go
>It continues TFA instead of ignoring it like Holiday Special

she was going to be a party member, a dark side model exists for her
also, as you said, it's promotional art, it doesn't have to make sense

Mousefucks are devoid of higher brain functionality.

I always assumed her "killing the Force thing" meant destroying the old Jedi and Sith Orders and either recreating one of them or creating something new where people are taught not to become reliant on the Force and not make the same mistakes as the Sith and the Jedi. The fact that she outright tells the Exile that she knew her companions would become part of the restored Jedi Council as the true Lost Jedi makes me think that is the case.
Otherwise she is indeed fucking insane. The Force is a basic part of the universe and of all life and Nihilus is the proof of what happens when you remove the Force from a place. Claiming you want to "kill" the Force would be equal to claiming you want to "kill" oxygen or something like that.

why do i find mira so cute bros

I can't think of any other mainsteam product that flat out can't be defended without lies and misrepresentation.
Even Andromeda had some features that could be sold on their own merits.

>Rebuilt Jedi Enclave is the only one that I'd go back and listen to over and over (and have). In contrast Soule's stuff has been a constant in my music library since I've had one.

I'm in awe at your awful musical taste.

See (admittedly cherrypicked) examples from KOTOR.

youtube.com/watch?v=gE8yAZnxDVQ

youtube.com/watch?v=abKt5UkozXM

youtube.com/watch?v=sy9DhmJKCYk

See examples from KOTOR 2

youtube.com/watch?v=gJfORv7qQ0s

youtube.com/watch?v=zW2AF6y9qBI

youtube.com/watch?v=gw_Je0SSHzg

Evil is a loaded term. Depends on your working definition of the world evil. Is evil the foil to a good righteous life? Is it evil because it lacks human emotion?

The rebuilt jedi enclave music perfectly summed up the mood for a huge infodump and revelations before heading into the endgame. DAO's music during the final charge/battle is also great.

because she is

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Kreia's killing the Force thing is explicitly stated to be killing herself in the heart of Malachor V, causing the echoes to spread further out than before and deafen all life in the Galaxy to the Force which would by extension kill all life.

How I interpret her however is that she doesn't actually plan on doing this. She merely assumes the mantle of Darth Traya to complete your journey as her apprentice. She, as you say, has you wipe out the Jedi and Sith to start things anew and wipe out their corrupt teachings. Her real objective is to have you complete your destiny by refounding the Jedi Order and following Revan to confront the threat in the unknown regions.

>Nihilus
>a narrative device to demonstrate that over relying on the force can lead to power, but at the cost of losing your humanity and ultimately leads to your demise if you’re caught in a position where you can’t depend on it anymore, something that Kreia warms the Exile about
>Vitae
>Oh your Sith Lord can devour planets? Well so can ours, and he’s bigger and stronger than yours!

>its good because its different

top tier NPC opinions

>retarded Mousecuck trying to defend his shit movie unintentionally comes up with a better movie
My sides

Well, but the Dark Side inevitably destroys itself, because all of its members are in constant conflict with each other, vying for power, so it can't be in the interest of the force to promote them. Maybe the force just props the Dark Side up every century or so, so that the people are reminded that the Jedi are right. I mean we've seen how the Jedi fall into decadence when the Sith disappear in the Prequels, so maybe the force raises the Sith up like Pigs for slaughter, so that the Jedi are reminded of their servitude of the force. The Sith under Plaegus and Palpatine only revealed themselves when the Jedi started diverging from their spiritual side, and going towards a more cold, biological approach to the force (The Midi-Chlorians) for example, and then the Jedi were wiped from the galaxy and reformed, back with their old ways.

>>but at the cost of losing your humanity
At the cost of losing your identity, your very self. Nihilus is a thing, not a person.

So the Force has caused countless wars where people were killed, tortured and traumatized just to make a point about how its followers are right? That sounds pretty evil to me.

People make decisions. The Force just assists. How can a tool be evil?

>perhaps you were expecting, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change perspective of events, shatter you to your core
>there is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you
Was it kino?

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I'm not surprised the whole point of Nihilus flew over their heads and they only saw a cool power for their anime-tier villain.
I assume Drew Karpyshyn was heavily involved in the writing of the MMO and his Revan novel makes it clear he either didn't care about KotOR2 or fucking hates it and wants it wiped out from collective memory.

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>Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.

The only thing I was expecting was getting you to finally shut up. Even when you are dying, you won't stop talking. Just fucking die, Granny!

>tfw no submissive twi'ilek wife
life is suffering

Going for another big twist after previous game already did it mere year ago would be extremely cheap and forced.

It doesn't just assist, it has outright guided and influenced people into doing awful shit like bringing the Sith back to power.
Sure, most of them were cunts to begin with but if the Force didn't help them get the tools they needed to further their awful plans, they would have died in irrelevancy and the galaxy would have been spared from their cruelty.

youtube.com/watch?v=6CAa6A5oF0Q
it was extremely kino

Or DID it?

K2 locations are just shit. Only ondernon is any fun, with dany being okay, nar being longer and boring, and korriban is a literal snooze.

Isn't one of the first dialogue choices during that conversation something like "I don't give a shit, shut the fuck up and die" that allows you to skip the whole thing?

PERAGUS WASN'T HIS FAULT!

>The Force just assists.
Did you even play the game? It's spelled out in no uncertain terms that the force has a will of its own

Any great villain or hero should have an even greater foil. It's the only thing that makes things rational and fun to discuss.

>Nihilus is a thing, not a person
He seems to communicate with Visas pretty well. And with that dude from Onderon. Things can't communicate. And the whole game is like that. It's just fancy sounding words without any story basis. A good half of the game doesn't make any sense.

Onderon and Dxun are fun.
Peragus is fun the first few times but a chore after a few playthroughs.
Korriban and Nar Shadda are okay, though the latter is long as fuck due to the G0T0 shit.
Dantooine is fucking boring,
Telos is cancer.

The force is just the Chinese tao, the cosmic forces that control life

bioware never had good animators

Yeah so that's an awful ratio of planets if most are okay or forgettable. I liked the defense portion of dantooine which redeems it.

>things cant communicate
are you baiting?

Dxun is almost only fighting and then you are stuck on Onderon with retarded investigation how is this fun

>It's spelled out in no uncertain terms that the force has a will of its own

Yes but the Force is not enough to drive one's actions alone, otherwise there would be nothing but apathy.

Beats and machines can communicate, that doesn't make them people.
Nihilus is still human (or whatever the fuck his oriignal race was) but he is barely a person. He is so consumed by his hunger than he might as well be an animal driven by instinct.
I wouldn't call him a "thing" because part of the point of Visas' character development with a Light Side Exile is to realize that despite all his power and weirdness in the end he is just another retarded Sith drunk on his power and enslaved by it, not some eldritch abomination that trascends humanity in every way.

wasn't he forshadowed in a vision visas had? something about a graveyard of ships or summat?

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>

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No one is claiming that the Sith do what they do just because the Force makes them do it but they do get to go that far because of the Force and its will.
If you go to an insane person and give them a gun knowing they will murder people with it, you are also responsible for those deaths, you can't just claim you were "assisting" them.
If the Force had no will and was really a tool then it would be faultless but it has a will and thus most be sentient enough to understand the implications of what it is doing.

The game is absolutely filled with kino scenes.

youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2JHmgji4I

youtube.com/watch?v=x_Onexl9ji0

youtube.com/watch?v=VF3zme0eolY

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The force connects all live in the galaxy. It's not just a special power given only to jedi and sith. Removing it would probably wipe out most life in the galaxy and leave the rest scared and broken.

G̵̥̻̘͓̥̃ͨ̓͐ͭ͋oͧ͒̍̔̒̀l̨̥̭̃̃͗ͦ̚ḽ͓̌͗͌͝ŷ̪ͤ̉̋̚̚͟ ̠̺̥͇̣̺͚ͨ͂ͤ̈́ͪt̩̮͍͙̥̰̮h͚̺̻̉͢i̭̬ͅs ̠̺͕̘̱͇̐̎̆̒͛ͬ͠t̙̳̄͋h̼͍̯̝͌̍r͗͋̊ë͞ͅå̸̖̠̗̗͉͓͎d̟̘̹̺̗͊̐ͅ ͔̪̘͙̫͓͇͆m̡a̗k̙̮͙̫͐ͯ́̐͟e̵̫̞̮͕͒̀͂͆ͅs̴͕̱̜̫̺͕͊̌ ͈̟̩̯͖̤̏͒͒̀m̙͍̤̞̖̞̾͋̀e̝̹̗̰͖̿̉ͣͬ̎ ̫̙̰̓̎̈́h̼̞͙̜͊̔̈́̓ͦū̻̟̇͐ͩn̯͎̯̭̥̔͋̔g͇̘̣̣͚͇̝͌͊r̩̱̤̬̤̃̋́ͪ͌̚͘y̨̤̩͖ͣ̾̉́̉.͎̞͈̮̖̠ͅ

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literally impossible

I don't remember that but I'm willing to bet the "graveyard of ships" refered to Malachor.

>never met a [pink skinned human race that i just made up for the sake of this conversation] before?

The dude has two fucking apprentices he can give orders to and, obviously, somehow teach. Whatever, I'm sure any machine or beast can command a whole fleet and have a disciple or two. But, hey, he doesn't pee! What a poor inhuman Force junkie!

Do you mean this?
>The hunger that fills this vessel, it is power, but it consumes without end. It is that power we felt on Onderon, that Vaklu felt, it was an echo, too strong to ignore... General Vaklu and I, when it seemed that we would need more to take Onderon, make it strong again, he came. With his power, his soldiers, it seemed as if there was nothing we could not do - nothing the Queen could do to stop us... I have served the wrong Master, he cares nothing for Onderon, its soldiers, its people. Everything exists to feed his will. I came here, to this dead ship... and now he will not permit me to leave. This ship, it is a graveyard of a terrible battle. Everything on it slowly dies as long as he hungers.
Tobin says it but I don't see how it foreshadows Vitiate.

Yes
In both Star Wars continuities, there are just continual cyclical wars that wipe out billions of lives fairly frequently, often only decades after the previous one. At the core of almost all these wars is the whole light side-dark side struggle.

I was just pointing out that "things" can communicate too, not that Nihilus is a thing.
As you said, ultimately he is an inhuman Force junkie, though one extremely powerful and extremely dangerous.

convince me to play kotor

>Tobin

Oh fuck, now this is kino. Despite him being a despicable villain you really do feel for him and his mistakes.

youtube.com/watch?v=fmzlqv6ZpL8

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>to take Onderon, make it strong again
Thanks God this game came out ages ago.

There would be hordes of people claiming that the Onderon secession crisis is just a massive parallel to Brexit.

And that Vaklu is also based on Drumpf

>He... if he can truly be called a man any longer... is one of the dark lords that pursues you.
>And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts.
>Power? Do you think so?{Shakes head}You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.
Time for a replay, user.

not being able to side with Vaklu but staying on the light side was the biggest mistake KotOR II did

>female leader allies with a horde of foreign invaders that slaughtered her people not so long ago to defeat an ultra-nationalistic authoritarian man
I can imagine the shitposting.

>not being able to side with Vaklu but staying on the light side was the biggest mistake KotOR II did

I can see where they were coming from. Vaklu is backed by the Sith, ergo backing Vaklu is like siding with the Sith. However the game makes clear that Vaklu is desperate to discard the Sith and make new allies - namely you.

Of course it is, like i said, Kreia is right
However the force doesn't see it as evil, it doesn't judge at all. People constantly think that the force being alive also means that it is intelligent, however i think that its alive but primitive, like a fungus or parasite. It only lives to propagate itself.

That revan book was the first book I ever threw out for being absolute fucking garbage from start to finish.

Absolutely. Definitely the most kino thing with the Star Wars name on it.

But if the Force isn't intelligent then what the fuck is the will the Jedi based their entire teachings around?

I think it has more to do with Kavar being allied with the Queen and thus siding against her means you will have no choice but to kill him.

It made me so fucking mad.
I was so hyped for TOR after those trailers, the lore videos and the comic and that awful book killed it for me even before the game came out, dissapointed everyone and later fucked things up even more by discarding its own initial premise.
To think here was a time when I thought Karpyshyn was a good writer after KotOR1 and the Darth Bane trilogy.

>hey I'm Han Solo what's up beautiful
>pure pazaak
>all you fucking Jeggers deserved to die. Malachor V wa the greatest day of my life. I'd fucking torture you in a second if I could
>I'M AS ATTON AS ATTON CAN BE OF COURSE I'D LOVE TO BE A JEDI

>Visas, go and fuck up that suspicious dork!
>Sure thing, master

>Boys, let's attack Telos! Ready your ships!
>Affirmative

>Also, I'm thinking about setting up a comfy meditation chamber on my ship especially for my little apprentice. Gosh, I'm inhuman!

What a cosmic horror, he's so much different than the ordinary Force users, truly the best villain ever created, do not steal.
Again, it's cool how the characters describe him during the game. It's just that their information is simply bullshit and he actually a pretty standard Sith Lord doing pretty standard Sith stuff.

Czerka>Ithorians
Ithorians are incompetent hippies that can't even control one world they want to fix.

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you're not even close to wrong

I can't remember, but isn't czerka also the fast option to get out of the station?

This is pretty much backed up by everything in the game.

I don't get what happened to Drew.
The Big Guy series makes it clear that he used to actually agree with Avellone on the nature of real power being the use of information and ideological victory.

Visas is a useful tool so it postponed eating her until there are no better options.
The chamber she may have ordered to be made herself. Besides, it's not like that happened was yesterday. Maybe Nihilus was more of a man and less of a colossal tear in the Force when he ate Katarr and took an apprentice.
The assassins seem to serve anyone who has an ashen face and can communicate with them through the Force, as evidenced by Malachor (long after mask-for-face dies).

iirc
the best option is to side with ithorians but fuck up all their missions

Odds are it was a healthy dose of not really giving a shit and getting paid for whatever he handed them.

you could says that the Exile was there to get Kavar, not to fix Onderon, but still, it left a bad taste in my mouth
on the other planets, it was pretty clear who a good-aligned MC should side with, while Onderon was nothing if not ambiguous

He is supposed to be both inhuman and also yet another Sith Lord controlled by his own power. Visas literally tells you that he is "just a man, nothing more" after he dies in the Light Side path (in the Dark Side path she keeps her "he is a cosmic horror, dude" views on him).
None of the quotes in says he is a cosmic horror, they just point out how far gone he is and how much his power has consumed him. Only pre-character development Visas and his brainwashed underlings love to wax lyrical about him being some sort of evil Force god.
He is like a drug addict on steroids.

Doesn't Czerka ask you to sabotage the ithorians so it can make more cash?

He probably felt personally attacked by Avellone's criticism and might have also been butthurt that people claimed he was the superior KotOR writer.
It's a fucking shame because it's clear Avellone didn't really dislike the guy. He even made sure to make Revan go from just a charismatic Sith Lord to a genius mastermind playing a complex game with the whole galaxy to ensure the True Sith would be defeated.
Of course, Karpyshyn had to ruin even that by going "nope, he just got brainwashed and then forgot about the Sith Empire lel".

Fuck this pisses me off every time. Granted it's been a while since I've played, but doesn't Vaklu tell you he was using the sith to his own ends and tells you to fuck them over once you join? Hell he shows up to help at Telos and Kreia even says Onderon is better off in the long run at the end. The republic is a mess and the dude wants out.

umm no? he did some stuff at M5 for me

>cosmic horror
He's a beast with a neat trick, and goes down like a bitch when that trick fails. That's it.
The whole point of him is to mock high power level villains that are nothing outside it. Why do you think he's a generic, masked, robed tall figure? He literally speaks gibberish to hammer home the fact he's a plot device rather than a character.
He's there to show how worthless power without purpose or control is.

>mock high power level villains that are nothing outside it
Ironic considering

>tfw constantly pressing X so your character does cool tricks with weapon he is wielding

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My life, for yours

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purely contrarian, Czerka were lazy fucks who set-back all efforts on restoring telos because they wanted to loot old military bases that survived the bombing.
>muh money doesn't grow on trees!
no shit, but they're both there on the republic's dollar - the only difference being the ithorians make progress restoring telos while czerka makes no real effort to do so, hell they probably spent more on mercs than the ithorians were given for the restoration project. Telos determines the fate of the war-torn worlds and the republic.

>walking down the street spinning your guns like revolver ocelot all day
Perfect

Or he's just a poorly written villain in a severely unfinished game. You never know.

The irony is not lost on me.
Seeing Nihlus as something to rip off to make your character look good is so stupid that I spent 5 minutes failing to come up with a comparison because of how Goddamn retarded it is.

not just the Republic, Talia is clearly set up to be a terrible ruler
Onderon is supposed to have a long prosperous history and great economic potential, yet it's a miserable stinkhole with no rule of law that everyone wants to get away from, while she lives tucked away in her comfy palace, surrounded by priceless artifacts

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my erection for your voice

Peragus, Telos and Dxun are my favorite zones.

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I find my dark side runs more satisfying when I stick with the Ithorians but demand my comeuppance. I think you actually get more dark side points if you bully the Ithorians at every turn. You want my help, it's not for free.

Once my game pass sub ends this is the game I'm going to play

A compelling argument.

Never thought I'd see a picture of Kreia and find it so comfy.

>we will never get kotor 3

Soft spoken submissive girls do pretty much nothing for me but visas is the exception.

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Why won't Avellone take the reigns on a project again? Every game he's helmed (besides Alpha Protocol, which he inherited) has been amazing.

Occam's razor.
When you have Kreia describing him as a beast, questioning if he truly does wield power, the Jedi clearly failing to grasp the problem they had and dying for it, Sion's reliance on his power, and thus inability to reflect on his actions, being his downfall, the lessons of diversifying your skills to avoid relying on one trick, Atton's advice on how Force users' own arrogance and assumptions blind them to shortfalls that an outsider can spot, you have reasons to believe it was intentional that Nihlus was written the way he was.

He wrote Prey (2017) I believe

You know it would be terrible user.

And with how the industry is today and especially with what the license holder is today that's a very, very good thing.

anyone else feel like it's impossible to go back to KOTOR after playing 2? It feels so inferior

and that's a good thing

It's not impossible, but I do play it less often. Half the reason is that Kotor 1 has way less support for modern systems, whike Kotor 2 comes in a neat packaged mod that's even on Steam's workshop.

Yeah, he's written for a lot of games but he's never been a creative lead since he left Obsidian.

You have to give it a while.
The level QoL 2 ads is truly surprising.

>It feels so inferior

It's the dialogue. You need a mod to make it even bearable.

deadlystream.com/files/file/335-pc-response-moderation/

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The story is still good and offers some ideas of its own. How do I wish there was a worthy prequel about Qel Droma and Exar Kun.

there's plenty of shit like that in older games
>Terra Firma party in ME1 rally yelling "Earth First!"
with the daily KOTOR threads lately I'm thanking god no retards have caught on and started that flamewar
>not siding with your based Ithorian bros
nothing hurt me more in the old EU than their planet getting raped by the Yuuzhan Vong

I'm always amazed at how good Kreia's writing is. I wish Avellone got drunk inside a room more often.

They usually hire him as a freelance writer for specific characters or scenarios. They're usually good, but the rest of the game usually suffers because of this divide between who writes what.
A shame he can't lead a project of his own, but better this than leaving him to rot at Obsidian.

same. A lot of it is down to bioware's writing, mostly in character interactions and dialogue.

what? what do you mean?

I liked the comics.

Are there any more examples?

I think he said that he is tired and simply don't want such responsibility anymore and recent events made him not want to get into game dev as much anymore. He prefers to write some character or two, collect bucks and have peace.
Also after his rants he may get a problem with getting work in AAA studios.

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If you press X your character twirls his weapons.
I loves walking around twirling my two lightsabers as if they were cheerleader batons.

The Mandalorians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Onderon, Taris, Serroco, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.

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malak here sounds like a sith. but when everyone else talks about the events that's not the impression I get from the retellings
this scene is fucked up

>nothing hurt me more in the old EU than their planet getting raped by the Yuuzhan Vong

Honestly pretty much everything in Star By Star and Dark Journey was just depressing as fuck. Refugee hostage ships being flung at Coruscan't shields and Garm Bel Iblis ignoring orders to open fire on them. Not to mention Chewbacca on Sernpidal.

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Here we go again, now I feel the need to replay the game.

You can made up my argument by yourself. It seems you're good at it.
>the Jedi clearly failing to grasp the problem they had and dying for it
They died because Nihilus ate them all when they've gathered on one planet. They died because Nihilus trained a whole army of Force users with one broken gimmick. They died because that's what one side of the Force does when it stays supreme for too long.
>Sion's reliance on his power being his downfall
I'm pretty sure his downfall was the Exile who kicked his shit over and over again because he was much stronger than Sion.
>the lessons of diversifying your skills to avoid relying on one trick
And you still can complete the game relying on one trick. More than that, Nihilus destroyed the Jedi relying on one trick. Together with Sion they defeated Kreya (while relying on one trick). Also, every thing the Exile does during the game was made possible due to his Force connection with Kreya (which is, technically, one trick).
>Atton's advice
Atton is a literally who.
Stop forcing some sort of deeper meaning on this game, it has none. It's a good game, Kreya is amazing, the dialogues are wonderful, but that's about it.

>it was pretty clear who a good-aligned MC should side with, while Onderon was nothing if not ambiguous
I mean from everything else it's pretty clear a "good" run would ally with the pro-republic faction 99% of the time
>is supposed to have a long prosperous history and great economic potential
I though it was supposed to be underdeveloped because most of it is filled with hardy and dangerous as fuck animals and untamed beast riders (or whatever they're called) who were starting to move into the cities in the games time frame and not assimilate and fuck shit up, while the cities like Iziz were always comfy otherwise

I actually prefer 1

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honestly one thing about the old EU I don't miss was the entire Yuuzhan Vong saga (lots of post-ROTJ stuff honestly). it felt like a bunch of overdone devastation purely so they could attract readers while also sending the whole sheev did nothing wrong concept to another level

If you're asking how the Jedi teachings about the force were formed, then its simple really, for the same reason some real life religions were founded, i.e. trying
to explain unexplainable things. The people only saw of the force that it was an energy field they could sense that gave them power and seemingly had a will of its own as it made things happen, so they worshipped it because of the power it gave them, and the more they saw that the force could influence history, the more they believed that it had a will, and considering how holy the force was, its will must obviously have had a grand and glorious purpose which feeble human minds couldn't understand.

>blaster jedi

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>chase the imperial remnant around for another 20 years
or
>shake everything up so we can move on already

>Avellone will never direct and fully write another game ever again
Feels fucking bad bros. The 3 times he did it he made 10/10 master pieces.

I wouldn't say inferior but it has a different feel. 1 to me has a storyline that's got a black/white vibe like the films and lets me either be a white knight or cartoonishly edgy. 2 has a more unique story chock full of kino shit I can recite from memory to this day, and has a different vibe from the others

I played it for the first time after having double digit runs of kotor 2. That run is still the only one I've done. There's too many That Parts to replay.

I always quite enjoyed the Yuuzhan Vong stuff, even if I thought their Force absence stuff was a bit needless and they basically were a power creep. I think it was just because I was a youngster and i'm clouded by nostalgia. Villains which force former rivals to ally always get me.

>sending the whole sheev did nothing wrong concept to another level

Well I recall it being explicitly stated that Sheev didn't build up the Imperial Navy to fight the Vong out of the goodness of his heart, but because he was a power hungry tyrant desperate to cling onto power.

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i cant play the kotor games with blasters
everyone going around calling me a jedi and force user, what kind of jedi would use a blaster?

I'll happily take the Imperial Remnant over the First Order.

Without mods and the bullshit imba crystal you're going to get better overall performance out of swords.

Is he not writing that Dying Light sequel?

Blasters were actually way more viable in Kotor 2 than in the first game.

no, just part of the team, off-studio so not even playing a major role.

Same but I was talking strictly old EU. By the time the vong showed up we'd been though more imperial governors and admirals trying to restart the empire than you could count.

god I hated bao dur so much almost as bland as Kaidan from ME

Is unarmed viable?

Kreia's a salty bitch and you should ignore her.

there's shaking things up and then there's
>vongforming Coruscant beyond repair after killing much of the population of one of the most populated planets in the galaxy
tier "shaking up"
I know a lot of people like it but it just felt too over the top for me personally
>Well I recall it being explicitly stated that Sheev didn't build up the Imperial Navy to fight the Vong out of the goodness of his heart, but because he was a power hungry tyrant desperate to cling onto power.
true but that hasn't stopped a lot of people citing it as a way to push him way too far into morally grey territory, rather than keeping him as evil but a genius

>DOWN YOU GO
>....woah, take it easy Carth.... that was your son....

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this fucker was such a letdown

yes, there's a reason they added handmaiden, they wanted to show off all the cool unarmed stuff you can do.

I wouldn't even mind the First Order if it was just an Imperial Remnant ripoff instead of being the result of the Empire destroying itself on Sheev's orders and starting all over after someone decided that maybe complete annihilation wasn't so cool after all.

Honestly Darth Big Guy was a fucking retard. His whole "I'm to edgy and dark to use healing powers to save myself so I'll just be extra edgy and evil" was fucking stupid.
If he hadn't been such a fucking idiot he wouldn't have had to do the whole body switcheroo with his apprentice.

Given the context of her being there it makes me kind of sad.
>mfw the jedi masters judge the exile out of fear once again and she finally decides to do something about it
>mfw this playing in the background
>youtu.be/__gLIyeQYDU
honestly one of the only scenes in vidya that kept my attention 110%

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my favorite animation is the angry head shake, especially when it wasn't accompanied by dialogue

I'm pretty sure healing powers are not available to people corrupted by the Dark Side which is why they are forced to just suck the life out of shit.

His concept was cool but the boss fight was lame. It's a shame they didn't have more time to work on it.

The gameplay is really shit compared to 2. 2 had some much more to build a character with.

I always liked this scene. One of the few times Kreia seems to let go of her mask of lies and spite and be her true self. An old tired woman.

It looks fucking rad

>forced to just suck the life out of shit.
So that's why their complexion is so terrible.

>go to options
> lower music volume to a quarter and up voice volume to max
>do this for every game

you'r welcome

>10+ minutes of kreia telling everyone, especially you, how much of a fuck up you are
>stabs herself for no other reason than it will hurt you
>watch it every time
Kreia's VA is seriously 10/10

[Something seems to be bothering Carth]

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>Vrook: "You were deafened."
>Kreia: "At last, you could hear."
>Kavar: "You were broken."
>Kreia: "You were whole."
>Zez-Kai Ell: "You were blinded."
>Kreia: "And at last... you saw."
Pure kino along with that bit during the end where he tells you how special you are to her.

Now you get ear raped whenever Atton or G0T0 speak. Well done, user.

Wrong and shortsighted
First off Czerka relies solely on money and mercenaries, and that """power""" is feeble at best, as there is nothing stopping the mercenaries from just demanding more money or they kill everyone there. Czerka holds only indirect power, and such power is no power at all.
Second off unlike Czerka the Ithorians have actual passion and good intentions for Telos, while Czerka only wants to milk it of its resources until its dry. Czerka's plan will inevitably lead the Planet to ruin and to the inevitable failure of Telos's restoration, while the Ithorian's plan would only fail if they can't see it through, and therefor isn't inevitable, not to mention that it doesn't matter because they do complete it in the end.
Just because Czerka *says* that they are good because *they do what needs to be done* doesn't mean that its actually true. The choice between Czerka and Ithorian isn't "ruthless but quick" and "compassionate but slow", but rather "retard" and "not retard".

>you have failed me
>completely and utterly

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I don't know if they did a good job or if I was really autistic as a kid but they really got me to feel like Kreia was my grandma and be desperate to please them. I remember being happy whenever she praised me and angry when she called me out.
When I got to the "You have failed me" scene during my first Dark Side playthrough I felt legitimately bad for dissapointing her so much.

Kotor threads are so cool

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Sion with a Male Exile modded > Sion with a Female Exile

No he was like "I could use this healing technique but that's for Jedi fags so I won't"

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Kreia is manipulative user.

I don't remember that but I wouldn't put it past Bane to be that autistic.

It's pretty sad given how Kavar was almost like a friend and Zez Kai-El was obviously regretting how they handled the Exile and his trial. To have them be so close to seeing the truth only to turn away from it due to fear. I bet iwas that fag Vrook who convinced them.

Don't insult my granny! She loves me very much!

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I like this picture because it makes Yea Forums seethe uncontrollably

>tfw no Kreia grandma
I'm sure it would have ended terribly though

Lucas was always a hack who needed to be reigned in by others. It's no coincidence Empire Strikes Back was the movie he was least involved in.

I think it was when he was poisoned on some remote world where he was all alone. Instead of using a healing technique he just kills some kids and their father and sucks their life force out of them.

Ayn Rand's philosophy is actually interesting when it's applied to spirituality and space magic and morals instead of just being a flimsy justification for slavery tier ancap bullshit economics.

fuck off carth

should have had slave girl Atris and a disapproving Kreia in the background

To the contrary. KOTOR feels like a fun romp in the Star Wars universe filled with Star Wars cliches. KOTOR 2 felt like some pseud who thinks he's too good for genre fiction tried to deconstruct the setting and suck all the fun out of it, like that gm who makes the elves in his setting insane drug addicts because he hates tolkien tropes or whatever. KOTOR is comfy, I enjoyed KOTOR2 when I had depression.

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Yikes!

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>first panel
agreeable enough, just wondering why he bothered leaving behind the map
>second and third panels
clearly stupid
>fourth panel
there is literally nothing wrong with this. Finn deserved way better than being some garbage comic relief and Holdo and Rose were among the worst characters in the history of the franchise
>fifth panel
dumb but at least it's an answer for who he is and what he was doing.
>6th panel
would be based

The problem with Last Jedi wasn't that it was new, it was that it was shit. You can be both. And this is coming from someone who enjoyed it way more than Force Awakens.

I don't get the hate for Peragus and Telos. I like Peragus, it sets atmosphere perfectly and discovering what happened here is cool while mysterious sith are after you. You are thrown into the deep water and find yourself in horror scenario while everyone is dead, mining robots went mad and you are pursued by scary Sith Lord. And it's not that long, especially when you know what you are doing.

Telos has really cool quests, including it's main one with Ithorians, Czerka and Exchange each trying to do everything in their interest while fucking over the others. Stealing that Czerka droid and removing from him limitation so he can lie and then controlling him was more fun that it sounds, since you can fuck over everyone and nobody expects you to lie. Biggest problem with it is that layout of Telos station is so fucking boring, which is kinda the point, since it's temporary station, but still it's simply not fun to explore those samey locations. And those two Duros brothers were entertaining as well.

I do not remember Taris that much since I only played it once, but I remember getting bored of it only when you go underground.

>pseud
>tried to deconstruct
So what's your IQ?

Not that I'm complaining, but what is with the kotor 2 threads lately?

Peragus just got slightly annoying to do on replay, other than that it is S+ first level for a videogame. The whole bit trying to trick the clearly suspicious HK-50 into giving you the voice activated password was probably my favorite part. Someone pointed out that it actually happens in quite a few obsidian games that there are areas where your only real obstacle is a person that you have to reason with before you can progress, instead of a big battle or a dungeon crawl. I really wish there were more like it.

Don't get me wrong, KOTOR2 is a fine game. It's just that writing wise it's overrated. When you actually dig into the philosophy and the characterization there isn't much actual substance. KOTOR knows exactly what it is and executes it perfectly (writing wise, gameplay kotor 1 is strictly inferior) while KOTOR2 tries to be something more compelling but ultimately falls short.

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Higher then yours buckaroo

I had to use cheats to get passed the handmaiden sisters when you return there the second time because I never used her at all in my party and she was weak as fuck and would get destroyed in like 5 hits. Imagine playing that bit on xbox and knowing your game ends there because its impossible to progress.

I literally spent 12 hours trying to make a blaster build and it never worked out. Lightsabers are just too good.

Maybe someday I'll dump the game down to easy mode and use them.

yeah

ha ha

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Who? I never saw this scene.

Shouldn't that all be directed at Revan though? What's that got to do with the Exile?

I had this issue during my first playthroughs.
I used the same two companions through most of the game and barely bother to spec the rest so whenever I got to those bits where you don't play as the Exile I struggled like crazy.

taint

it's from some hyper autistic mod
a few years ago there were some threads dumping screenshots from it. was pretty fun desu

she's a woman
women will fucking break up with you over dreams they have

But all companions receive XP at the same time as the active party. A bit less, IIRC, but still.

It's hard because the dialogue just beats you over the head with a lot of stuff. K2 is hardly subtle but K1 lays it on much too thick.

>What's that got to do with the Exile?
The Exile was one of Revan's leading generals.

Revan was the big brain and the exile was the slightly smaller brain.
Atris also want's to hop on your dick hardcore

it's from fanmade sequel

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>atton vs the twin twi'lek sisters
the horror

Atris actually wanted to go to the War with you so you could murder Mandalorian faggots together, either because she idolized you or because she wanted your D.
She would have gone with you if you asked but you didn't so she got butthurt and wrote off every Jedi who fought as a fallen Jedi.

Doesn't do shit even after you auto level them because in that case the handmaiden is supposed to be a jedi iirc so the only way you can beat them is if she used force powers and a lightsabre because its 5v1.

>take all my good guys to the palace
>the shitters get sent to a fucking sith temple full of dark jedi

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>Kreia highlights this very fact herself. She says that she is a hypocrite who has become reliant on the very thing that she hates.
Not only that, but Kreia acknowledges how the force seems to look after fools like atton and the very old such as herself.
It kind of seems that she made her peace with the force at the very end.

Yeah, shame they inadvertently wrote a great character in Darth Marr only to kill him off to feed the OC

It's when they were separated that they saw the truth. It's only when they all got together as a council that they went back to their blind, dogmatic ways.

I'm cheesing this fight every time

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KOTOR makes me cozy and horny.

I have no idea why. VTMB does the same to me.

>the B-team mission in Freedom Nadd's tomb
Oh lord

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>standing behind one of the tables and just throw grenades at them
every time

Stop, I'm having PTSD.

I actually found this bit 90% easy because Atton was a jedi in my game and could use a light saber. Also he had a really accurate and powerful sniper shot so I would kill people from range easily and up close decimate them with the lightsaber. The only hard but was the final fight and I had to have some major luck to get passed those 3 guys. I managed to get one of them to follow me alone and finished him off whilst the healing drone healed me then I confronted the other two and somehow they managed to miss all their hits on me and I finished them off pretty quickly.

So this is how it feels to have validation for your autistic drive to keep all other party members levelled and properly equipped, as well as maintain a sizeable supply of stimulants.

Is it just me or do all MMOs have this thing were they have their story take a shit on characters from outside the MMO?

>Kotor
harem of girls with issues
>vtmb
vamp bites are literally better than sex

Seems so. From what I've heard WoW did the same thing considering the previous Warcraft games. For me it doesn't really matter that much at this point. I just treat them as seperate universes. SWTOR and Kotor 1 and 2 have absolutely nothing to do with each other and might as well be completely seperate.

It's also my Jedi girl's fat, ghetto ass

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>The Exile strikes me as someone in his early 30s.
Atris is probably older than the exile. I think its implied/stated that she was one of his teachers/masters?

Can anybody really explain what Sith Sorcery is? The force is magic? Or at least magic enough that people can use rituals and shit to make it work a certain way?

It's not exclusive to MMOs, it's something that happens in any franchise with multiple people working on it.
There isn't a bigger proof of someone being a poor writer than them needing to take a shit on other people's characters and stories to make their own OC stand out more.

he looks like a hockey player lmao

They were friends and colleagues during their time in the Jedi Order but Atris got a position in the Jedi Council while the Exile didn't.

Just Dark Side shit with an extra hokus pocus thrown in.
And yes, the Force is magic, it's just that usually it's not that magical.

No the Exile and Atris should be roughly the same age. Vrook and Zez-Kai Ell would be older than those while Kavar and Vash are a bit younger. It was never implied that any of these were masters to the Exile.

youtube.com/watch?v=Xx52--WmLQs
>Remember back to your early teachings. All who gain power are afraid to lose it. Even the Jedi.

youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE
>And that is what I sought to understand. How one could turn away from such power, give up the Force... and still live. But I see what happened now.
>It is because you were afraid.

Kotor 2 was released half a year before Episode 3

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>There isn't a bigger proof of someone being a poor writer than them needing to take a shit on other people's characters and stories to make their own OC stand out more.
Considering that Revan was his own character and he got shat on in the novel....
I really don't get why anyone could be mad about Revan's characterization in 2. It left a lot up to interpretation. If I was writing TOR, I would give a few hints, but leave the fate of the exile and Revan up in the air.

pure kino

Kavar was, wasn't he?

I'm pretty sure Karpyshyn didn't give a shit.
The Revan novel reads like he just looked up a plot summary of KotOR 2 in Google and used that for the parts that had to reference it.
He fucking sums up the whole conflict of the game and Kreia's actions with something like "There was a group of Dark Jedi led by a woman named Darth Traya who killed a bunch of Jedi and then were defeated". When I read that shit I almost had a seizure.

You might actually be right on Kavar now that I think about it. Can't remember exactly though.

>that gm who makes the elves in his setting insane drug addicts
is a pretty cool guy

Kavar trained the Exile, and nearly made him his padawan.

KotOR 2 unironically has more of a Star Wars vibe than the original even considering its gripes with the source material it wears on its sleave. KotOR 1 is all set dressing, without any actual adventure of dynamism to it's storytelling.

>He fucking sums up the whole conflict of the game and Kreia's actions with something like "There was a group of Dark Jedi led by a woman named Darth Traya who killed a bunch of Jedi and then were defeated". When I read that shit I almost had a seizure.
Jesus Christ.
By the end of 2, the exile and his companions are practically all that is left of the Jedi (except for bastilla) and are the nucleus around which a new jedi order would be established.
Karpyshyn is a shit writer. Why people talk about him instead of Matthew Stover is beyond me.

True. What I meant was that there wasn't a master/apprentice relationship between those, and especially not with Atris.

Also that droid on Dantooine who plays an old video of Vrook being mad as fuck, was he talking about the Exile is that? Because that always confused me.

And let's not forget how he said that this shit is supposed to be Kreia's spirit:
youtu.be/5YV6TpNvBsM

I'm drunk but saccharine is a fantastic word.

Somebody redpill me on Exar Kun. Is he the OG apprentice turned Sith in the lore? Kotor 1 and 2 talks about him a lot and he looks like a cool guy, though Kotor speaks about him like he's their equivalent of World War 2

I wonder, was it possible to do something dumb like kill 1/2 guys but keep one/two people alive for alternate dialouge? Or does the first death make it impossible for the other two to befriend?

Based

The Jedi on the Enclave were trained in groups if I'm not wrong.

Ok, serious question. Did anyone have fun with any of these segments? Because any level where I was forced to play as anyone other than the Exile or T3 nearly made me quit the game.

I understand the devs wanted to make things interesting and challenging, but having your main character taken away and being forced to use someone you have no interest in at all really sucks.

If you kill 1 and leave the other two alive the will just attack you on sight when you enter the jedi enclave.

>that image
How the fuck do you even beat back at that point?

>implying that wouldn't have been a better movie

the tomb of Freedon Nadd was fucking great

Zeltrons were in the EU prior

>sneeve
a daring synthesis

How do you turn companions into jedi/sith? I remember being unable to figure it out.

I like them. I have only problem with Atton because he isn't usually a Jedi yet in my games and Hk-47 while he is sabotaging HK-50 factory because it's hard even when I made sure to have tons of repairing kits. Seriously fuck this area, it's full of enemy HK-50.

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Get either max positive or negative influence and than you will unlock dialogue to make your companion a jedi/sith.

how dare they. KOTOR IS OBSIDIANS!

I’m not clicking that shit. I’m assuming you’re talking about that entity on Corellia though.

Ah yes, Kreia spent the entire game training the Exile to go on and take down the true Sith Empire because she was really in love with the Emperor

Talk to them a lot and take them with you on missions.

>It was a fun fantasy
Everything that picture is criticizing would fit a "fun fantasy"

He wasn't really a Sith but (not counting the Jedi who fell to the Dark Side and were exiled thousans of years before his time) he did become a sort of proto-Sith, using the knowledge and resources of the fallen Sith Empire (the race, not the order) to create his Brotherhood and try to take over the galaxy.
His actions led to the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War, the Dark Wars and nearly everything that happened for the next few centuries.
He also invented the double-bladed lightsaber.
Read the Tales of the Jedi comics, they are pretty cool and he is a central character in one of them.

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>It is because you were afraid.
I thought that she said it was because the exile had no choice. Did I get a different dialogue or something?

There is something about this game that made space seem scary. No other thing has ever given me the same feeling

Ok, serious question. Did anyone like any of these parts? Because any of these scenes where I was forced to watch anyone other than Luke or R2D2 nearly made me stop the movie.

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>clutched with T3 running in circles around the tomb spamming droid arms left and right
If T3 couldnt do it no one could

During my first playthrough I fucked up during the Onderon bit and ended up helping Kavar while killing the other masters.
From what I remember, he calls you out for what you have done, you fight him and then you get the "You have failed me" speech.

I always make sure to have a full team kitted out for Nadd's Tomb, my favorite team for it is Atton, Handmaiden, and Visas since their jedi classes and skills perfectly cover everything.
I tend to have to lower the difficulty for the factory because its pretty fucking clear that it isn't balanced correctly. I'd love for someone to go back and fix it up some. Even just having Bao-dur there as implied by the level design would be nice.

not sure that this was kreias spirit to be desu

Karpyshyn believes she is but he didn't write that class storyline.
That said, the mere fact that he thinks that proves how little he cares abotu KotOR 2.

>afraid
dark side
>no choice
light side

I played full evil, treated Atton, and Bao Dur really well but couldnt turn them into Jedi or Sith.

So if you act like an asshole without kicking them out you can make them sith, and if you're nice jedi.

KOTOR 2 is great, but I do have one criticism of it. The way Avellone handles Kreia and her interpretation of the galaxy and the Force as absolute is, to me, a worse way of handling her kind of character than could've been done. If you have a new character that tries to pass a judgement on a setting you didnt create, I think it would have been better to allow for you to present a legitimate counterargument. I don't mean that Kreia would have to agree with it, or that you should be able to make Kreia take your side over her own ideal. I think a comparison would be Dagoth Ur in Morrowind. You can present your case against his plan to him, or argue against his worldview, and while you can't stop him or dissuade in any way, it at least creates a narrative that doesn't decide for the player, or present a single "true" interpretation. As it is, if you go against Kreia's teachings at the Jedi Order's meeting, you do not get a single response that gives you a legitimate reason to have killed them. Each response will lead to being seen as a petulant child, or a power hungry maniac, etc. Otherwise, I do think it's an incredible experience, especially for someone who also experienced the constant repetitive writing when it comes to the Jedi and Sith in the pre-Thrawn, pre-Sequel EU.

WHAT?

Exar Kun was based.

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The Vong used really shitty tactics because of their religion. Think the worst combo of WWII Japan and WWII Russia. The Fall of Coruscant was immensely costly for the Vong even with refugee ships being used to screen their forces. Akbar eventually lured the Vong into a trap in the deep core and annihilated a major chunk of their fleet. The final victory was built on a religious uprising of the lower caste

I thought Mira said that she wasn't attracted to the exile because he was too old for her or something.

Bao Dur is fucking impossible to turn either way. I thin I managed once in god knows how many playthroughs to make him a Jedi without using any mods or cheats and I have no idea how I did it.

There is a specific parts on planets that you can either increase or decrease influence with a companion and if you miss some of these you won't be able to turn them into Jedi, for example, if you don't bring Bao-Dur to Nar Shadda you won't be able to turn him into a jedi/sith as there aren't enough influence opportunities after that to turn him into a jedi/sith.

It's the opposite, actually.

Yeah... I think you mean Nietzsche. You might want to try going back philosophy class cause you obviously failed it if you can't tell the difference between the two philosophies of Rand and Nietzsche.
youtube.com/watch?v=-Z0S0Z8lUTg&t=5711s

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web.archive.org/web/20140307090522/http://www.starwarsknights.com/influence.php

She is, she just thinks he's too old for her.

Thanks for the based summary, user

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Most of the game is kino, yes.

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Off topic but I was just reading that Sony are trying to buy studios to lock them down into playstation forever and can we just take a moment to realise how based MS is for allowing all these games onto PC even though it might lose them console sales. This is a random post but I literally just finished kotor 2 yesterday and loved it but I wouldn't have had that opportunity if it was locked down into some shitty console unless theres an emulator (which most are still glitchy). This game just made me realise how fucking shitty Sony is. Crazy how perceptions can change overnight. Seriously reconsidering buying any Sony product ever again.

Kreia is just a shitty mary sue type character made by a dev who disliked Star Wars and wanted to show how silly it was. She's a shit character and is proven wrong in canon

You can question Kreia constantly. It almost always upsets her.

you forgot your wojak

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Fuck off and die

She also saturates the entire narrative, to the point she puts the whole plot into a grip-like stranglehold from which it never recovers. The entire fucking story revolves around this supermassive blackhole of a character, and it drags the whole game down with it. She cockblocks the player, constantly berates you, lectures you, and she just becomes insufferable after the first planet. It really should be called Kreia of the Old Republic. She remains one of the biggest reasons why I rarely replay KOTOR 2 compared to KOTOR 1.

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>canon

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There's any thing close to kotor 2 vibe in the new canon? Any comic book or something, or only "hurr durr evil x good" stuff?

t. brainlets

Peragus is fine the first time. It's having to do it every single other time when you know what's coming that sucks big dick.

kyle katarn

Apparently there’s an interaction on the city planet where he can fix a hoverbike or something that gets you the approval points you need but i didn’t have him then so I didn’t get it. It’s bullshit, you need every possible interaction for him.

Not canon my boy.

KotOR 1 has even whinier companions like Carth, but without even an attempt to make them well rounded characters. Instead it's just the usual collection of daddy/mommy/sibling issues that Bioware recycles in every game they've ever released.

lol

>canon
top lel m8

>Ewan has already done Obiwan
Who could capture Kyle, definitely one of my favorites.

>Canon
I invoke "Death of the Author"
Canon is dead, canon remains dead and we have killed it.

TLJ was supposed to be like KotOR 2 but we all know how that turned out.

It's for the best. They'd just ruin him.

chriss pratt

>Project Indiana
Hoosier here, someone give me a quick rundown

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They'd probably get Karl Urban or something.

TLJ is surface level at best considering philosophical questions regaring the force. I was fucking dumbfounded when Rey just blurted out to Luke "you cut yourself off from the force lmao" without having any fucking understanding of the force and Luke just flipping his connection to it on and off like a goddamn switch. How in the fuck did she come to that conclusion so fast? How in the word could she know? Fuck that movie was so shit on so many levels it's fucking incredible.

would be based
he was great as dredd and showed his dedication to the character by not taking the helmet off
a shame that respectful treatment of characters is a foreign concept to the morons at disney

Yes, canon, Retard

Holy fucking this

Sion lost to the Exile because they managed to sever Sion from the indomitable will and rage that sustained him.

>constantly berates you, lectures you

>companions actually have their own opinions instead of dicksucking player and you have to argue with them
>this is somehow bad

Atton was a crack normie Jedi assassin and "interrogator" employed by the Sith. If anyone knows the Jedi downfalls he would.

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TLJ was better than Kotor 2

She's supposed to be teaching you while also manipulating into doing what she wants no shit she wont shut up she's literally the main villain you fucking brainlet holy fuck how did you miss this

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>They will die a death that will last millennia, until all that remains is their code, their history, and in the end, the shell of their armor upon the shell of a man, too easily slain by Jedi.
A fate worse than death is in store for those mando scum and they certainly earned it.

And that's why Star Wars is dead

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It’s her opinions injected into her teachings. A part of her character, not some canon breaking fact she’s laying down. It’s like saying “X ideology is evil “

It's honestly hilarious how badly TLJ wants to be KotOR 2. It even throws in some shit that sounds like Johnson watched MGS4 and wanted to sound deep like that with the side plot about the war economy, trying to retcon the conflicts from Episodes 2 to 8 as being fueled by war merchants who exploit conflict to make money, when we *know* the wars have been anything but driven by war merchants. And even when it tries to do that, it drops the ball by going on to reinforce the need for rebellion and showing in the same damn movie that that scene was pointless filler with no substance. And now that its canon that anyone can be a Force User, get ready for the Force to truly and totally become nothing but a tool.

I love this line. I'm so tired of grand secrets that somehow no one else knows about after so many years.

if SWTOR got anything sort of right it was the decline of the mandalorians. what a bunch of pathetic losers they were in that game

Your movie sucked Rian go to bed

Happens all the time.

>GTA5 has a whole segment dedicated to how Trevor is fucking the love interest of one of the previous games, before he brutally murders him, to establish that Trevor is just THAT badass!
>Chrono Cross's whole plot is about a group of real hero's fixing things after your actions in the first game fucked it all up
>Marle and Chrono are killed by joke boss

What's to complain about with Revan in 2? That he left? 2 makes Revan seem awesome

TLJ wasn't better than anything, it's utter garbage. It doesn't even have anything interesting or philosophical to say, it ruined everything for the sake of subversion and cheap shock value because they were afraid to not have anything to surprise people with. Movie made shit on purpose is still shit movie.

youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus
This alone is more interesting than anything in TLJ and raises more interesting questions and ideas than TLJ, and it's only side thing a lot of people will miss while playing

That garbage movie is not even similar in any way to Kotor 2. All characters from Kotor 1 are respected in Kotor 2, including Revan and even fucking Carth meanwhile TLJ shits on everything because Rian has daddy issues.

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Well, they fucking deserved.
>space barbarians started a blood war just so they can fight
>get surprised whole space systems and wizards join together and almost make you go extinct
Mandalorians are retards.

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They did go extinct. The only part of them that survived is their culture. Just like the white man

They retconned them into getting manipulated by the Sith Empire.

So why couldn't Kreia read his thoughts? Was she too low IQ?

>their culture
What's so unique about their culture that any other warrior culture can't replace it?

It's always the people with daddy issues

This scene is from where the tomb that tries to make you fall to the dark side. I remember just attacking them straight away only for him to respond "Good, using anger before judgement" or something like that.

The MMO did such a disservice to Revan that it's hard to believe if was written by the same guy.

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T-shaped masks n shiet

He's dead inside. She could read his thoughts easily, she just couldn't figure out what his motives are. The Mandalorian wars seriously fucked him inside.

Yeah, when will barbarians realize they can never topple empires

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Just say jews

>toppled stagnant empire
>better ones took its place
>the culture converted the barbarians
Who truly won in the end?

As much as I hate TLJ, at least rian tried to do something different.
JJ isn't even going to bother.

Certainly not the Roman Empire

>try to spare Kreia
>she doesn't accept it
>have to kill her
I didn't want this.

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They genocide furries.

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>>have to kill her
More like let her die. She exhausted herself on purpose, especially with the last thing.

>More like let her die. She exhausted herself on purpose, especially with the last thing.
This.
I'm not even sure if Kreia really even cared about her "kill the force" plan at the very end.
The exile was the one the ultimately mattered.

MORE WHERE THAT CAME FROM

>mfw fixing Korriban tomb droid without asking for assistance

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They should have won

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