Stop playing Divinity Original Sin

And no one works and there is no food
YAY SHARING

I was playing OS2 recently and ran across a quest where they make you answer morally gray questions that have a definitive answer and it made me drop the game. Malady alone almost made me drop it but that pushed it over the line.

>just becouse there isn't a capitalist elite no one works anymore

The government owns everything and forces everyone to be equal.
If you're so good that no handicap can put you on the level of everyone else, you will be killed and the government will steal your stuff.

Tyranny by those that think they know what's best for you.

Wrong. Marx wanted the state to eventually disappear.

Marxism started as an aggressive critique of Capitalism but suggesting it was philosophically broken. What most people actually hate about it are the governing ideologies that spawned from it such as Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism etc that ended up with lots of people poor and/or dead.

Do people work when they have welfare?
Or do they only start working when the government forces them off of it?
Its just human nature

youtube.com/watch?v=fibDNwF8bjs

Yes now please share your wife with me.

Attached: 1556587130386.webm (480x852, 2.36M)

He prolly already does and oftenn

People in Finland can easily live off welfare that is given to ANYONE, apartments and all.
Still vast vast majority want to work and do work.

Never left fort joy, horrible combat system with brainlet progression and inventory management full of autism.

Please delete this

Retarded video.
Anarchism is Order.
Not chaos like fool people want us to believe.

Demographics friend

Yes, until you realize that your neighbor gets just as much as you do, even if you work harder or he doesn't work at all. Then you stop working too and you get a snowball effect until 1991 happens all over again.

The world is fucked up and the only way to tear down the system is to corrupt it to such extremes that extreme measures are accepted by the common folk so everything can be built anew when the ones that perpetuate the current class system are gone.

>dude lmao leninism/stalinism = marxism
every time

Didnt some nation have to scrap their socialist experiment they had going in a few towns because after it was started, everyone just stopped working?
Cant remember where it happened

Dunno about that but Finland tested Universal Basic Income and the results were that the employement levels stayed the same, but peoples happiness increased and stress decreased significantly.

All money in the hands of the government as opposed to business owners. Dissidents are generally removed.

helsinki.fi/en/news/nordic-welfare-news/heikki-hiilamo-disappointing-results-from-the-finnish-basic-income-experiment

The Finnish experiment was about partial basic income targeting able-bodied people without work, it was not about universal basic income. That has been a source of major confusion around the experiment and a source of critique of it.

The experiment analyzed two different interlinked mechanisms in the Finnish public social services system.

Currently, those who have been classified as “long-term unemployed” are required to participate in active labour market programs. Those who refuse to participate, lose their unemployment benefit for two months and may also face a reduction in social assistance, the last-tier income support system in Finland.

However, in the experiment, the basic income recipients were not obliged to participate in such measures and faced no sanctions.

Secondly, as elsewhere, all Finnish minimum income benefits are means-tested, which means that extra income acquired from work is deducted from government-sponsored benefits.

Those who got basic income during the experiment were able to keep all the extra income from work without risking to lose one euro of the basic income amount. The recipients of basic income did not need to report their incomes to the unemployment office, which reduced bureaucracy and insecurity caused by fluctuating benefit levels.

Pretty much the opposite happened. The thing that people fail to realize about something like a universal basic income is that it doesn't motivate people to stop working because most people still want more than that income can provide. People still crave expensive luxuries and moving up in the world, buying land/a house or taking vacations etc. Also people need something to do. The year I spent a neet between college and getting my first job was awful. Not working was great for like a month and then you just start to feel pathetic and bored.

>Yes, until you realize that your neighbor gets just as much as you do, even if you work harder or he doesn't work at all.
the more productive workers gets a larger share of social wealth. read the Gotha Kritik if you want a broad outline on how lower stage communism might function.

give your money to jamal or die

I somehow doubt that
as much as socialism is pushed in the media, if that was true it would be spammed everywhere
And no offense
An all white nation might be able to make socialism work. but not one filled with people who think they deserve money because of the color of their skin.
So unless your living in a 95% white nation... its not happening

>colony drop

>as much as socialism is pushed in the media
AHAHAHAHHAHAAHHABAHBGG

Why the fuck would giant media corporations push socialism? What the fuck are you smoking?

I see that shit on lefty media ll the time
Usually because screaming how all CEO's are racist nazi's because they didnt replace all their higher ups with nogs and vagina's tho.

m-m-muh jews!!!!! NWO!!! rich people good, except when jewish

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>lefty media
Again what the fuck are you smoking?
Giant corporations are not lefty.

Marxism is usually refered to as the marxist perspective of lens, which entails viewing the world through class struggles, like worker and manager.
seize the means of production, nationalize corporations and setup social safety nets that benefit society

open borders, multiculturalism, sexual degeneracy, and wealth redistribution are all regularly paraded and supported by major media outlets (CNN, NBC, etc).

>Giant corporations are not lefty
They're anything that enflames the culture war so they get more business.

>anything that isn't far-left is le fashy
kys niggertard

oh i forgot.. .cnn and msnbc are so hardcore rightwing

>They do anything that so they get more business
Literally opposite of leftist ideas

this
sounds pretty damn lefty to me

Idiotic americans again think that liberal = left
EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

The only real people who despise social safety nets are ignorant burgers and their drones that actually fell for the right wing propaganda, im comfy over here in EU doing a 12 week rehabilitation course followed by 4 weeks vacation because i have to deal with my neck issues causing trouble on the job, if i lived in shithole USA i would be out on the street, oh and im in a union LUL

liberal =/= lefitist

so no lefty can own a business
Is that is troll?

the ideas are good, the writing, at least the original untranslated text is some of the most boring dogshit.

No leftist can be a multimillionaire exploiting workers.

How long did it take for your daughter to recover from the muslim gangrape?

fuck off commie

>everything i don't like is socialism

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Why do I get the feeling im talking with scrawny 100lb soaking wet college kids who think socialism is great because they were dumb enough to put themselves into debt?

Well. Owning a business does kinda go against everything that left stands for. Worker co-operatives and such are fine ofcourse.

Thats all you have, pol propaganda generalizing an entire group of people across an entire continent, may democrats win inshallah

Pretty much anyone that has an education, their own house, car and works for a living is in debt, unless they got paid by daddy

Whats sad is I cant tell if your reply is serious or tongue in cheek
lmao fuck the left is retarded

>more productive workers gets a larger share of social wealth
aka money

>open borders bad
>other cultures bad
>gay people bad
>limits on wealth centralization bad

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>cant tell if its serious
>lmao left is retarded
Go outside

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lmao

So you admit you're in debt and thats why you like retards like Bernie Sanders

You should ask yourself which group controls the education system... and then ask yourself if purposely putting you in debt would help them to get votes when they come calling with socialism and promise of debt relief.
They played you son.

How are americans so out of touch when it comes to political discussion?

>Dig up the grave
>It explodes and instakills you
kek

yes Jews once again are the troubles for us white hardworking people, very clever of you to deduce i am in debt because i am stating a statistical fact

hahaha
fucking hell man
Enjoy giving all your wealth to brown people and then wondering why your shit collapses because only whtie dumbfucks like you are willing to work

bro, i GOTTA post this to my twitter. thanks for exposing that nazi for me.

>white people work hard
>brown people dont work hard
i envy how stupid your worldview is, keep nagging about minorities and see where that gets you in life

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who said anything about jews?
The left control the education system
You were used. They lied to you and pushed you into debt,. Now they sell you the remedy to the pain they caused.
And you still keep following them

faggots

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You keep embarassing yourself.

>The thing that people fail to realize about something like a universal basic income.

The thing that most people fail to realise is that most of these internet experts are idiots who don't actually read the source material and just espouse what their circlejerk master tells them.

see article

>Socialism, an ideology based on the of taking power and wealth out of the hands of corporate capitalists who condemn 95+% of humanity to wage slavery to support themselves, is bad
>I know this because organizations funded and lobbied by capitalists throughout history for the purpose of keeping this status quo have told me so
>I believe socialism is bad because I literally don't understand what the difference between socialism and neo-liberalism (which was created precisely to discredit the ideas) is
>I believe socialism is bad because I just think that socialism is whatever strawman version of a country sabotaged by corporate/state interests is the best representation of it
>I hate socialism because I have no understanding of how economics actually functions and trust my corporate overlords to know best

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What the fuck is that patch on his head?

I did. Beat it ages ago. Right now, I'm playing through the second one with some friends, though we're getting close to the end, I think.

Its called reality
Look at brown neighborhoods and nations for that fact. Every neighborhood they move into turns into a ghetto
Now try looking at it without making 500 excuses for them. Because that is what you do., that is why they never get better, You make excuses.

But I guess everyone wants to live in a white nation for no reason at all.

>The left control the education system
The education system in America is local and state based and the person who oversees it is Betsy Devos, sister of Erik prince, the mercenary guy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_DeVos

If you say so commie
Reality proves me right
All you have is your dreams

>Reality is whatever the man on the TV or the man on the YouTube says is real
Think for yourself.

>The left control the education system
l m a o

Now
but for the last 10 years it was run by socialist leftytards
Dont pretend otherwise when students are expelled for claiming their are only 2 genders

There's plenty of chill black countries in the world developing after colonial and imperial struggles of the past, dont forget to account for the systemic racism pushing people into these groups, if you keep on generalizing an entire group of people based on the ethnicity you're just shallow and ignorant.

How did this guy become the face of being alone?

Projection
You follow people who promise you free shit and never stopped to ask the cost

Americans literally don't know what being a leftist means. So tired of this.

Divinity 2 os is pretty much my definition of an 8/10 game, don’t know if anyone agrees. And I’ve beaten it twice.

Marx' capital is a really good read. Shame slav roaches fucked it up

Why do retards like you opine on things?

Socialism does not work because we are not equals.

Fucking stop pushing this shit on Yea Forums.

Modern marxism: brown good white bad
Old marxism: poor good rich bad

I agree

>colonial and imperial struggles of the past, dont forget to account for the systemic racism pushing people into these groups
more excuses
These places have been giving billions and they have done nothing
Your excuses for their failings keep them repeating them
But then again, keeping blacks poor and "oppressed" guarantees votes for you every 4 years, doesnt it.

>I think socialism is free shit
Here's a tip: The person who told you that is definitely bankrolled by someone who is going to benefit tremendously by you and everyone else in your social class not questioning why they're orders of magnitude richer than you.

She JUST got in. Education system is still in the hands of liberal retards who are now trying to force apes into high IQ high schools because there's not enough of them.

socialism doesn't work because we're jealous monkeys, look dude, just because you have a personality disorder and think in a slightly autistic way that doesn't mean normies can grasp those concepts, or even process information in the same way, "if everybody gets a piece of the pie then i'm not special", and normies sure love feeling special

so i looked them up, they basically just secured more funding for undeveloped schools, because the school funding is based on property taxes.

If you think its a massive issue that people get expelled for claiming there's only 2 genders then you should homeschool your kids about god and stuff

>Modern marxism: brown good white bad
That is just not the case. It's just a fucking stupid /pol/ tier narrative.

Your understanding is less than surface level. A few billion dollars is upkeep money to keep the mine running. Those countries stay shitty because it's in the best interest of the West that they stay shitty so that their populations c an be exploited for cheap labor.

>She JUST got in
>2017

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>There are people who think liberals and leftists are the same thing

Ask me how I know that you don't know anything.

And if love diversity so much, move to a brown nation

Africa has been exploited for hundreds of years, they're finally catching some break now but the chinese are now fucking them over too, but atleast they've becoming more self sustainable

Big corporations do push socialism not as an endgoal because they all know its an retarded system that would colapse society instantly, but its their ideals and practices that sustain their big empires at the cost of everyone else, including smaller business and consumers. Regulations, taxes, prohibitions, welfare, minimum wage more worker's law, etc, these big corporations support all of these types of government interventionism, which only increases the state power and size, and is a middle road to socialism. Why they do this you ask? Its like i said before, to sustain their big empire by working somewhat in collusion with the government, and crush any competition that would be an menace to them. They will be affected by these practices as well yes, but imagine the following analogy: You are an big fat person with around 200kg and you are an enemy of an thinner person of 100kg. Then you find and magic lamp and the genie grants you one wish, but on the condition that if you wish to harm someone else the same thing will happen to you at the same amount and power. What would you ask if wished to eliminate your enemy? Simply ask for him to lose 100kg. He would disappear and you would be with 100kg now, but the only one standing.

>not working was great for like a month and then you just start to feel pathetic and bored.
That's when you start feeling accurately about who you are without any delusions.

If so easy to exploit
Then they dont sound very equal do they.

It figures that an inbred racist can barely type in proper English lmao

Its much easier for me to make my own nation browner ;=)

heia heia

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>Regulations, taxes, prohibitions, welfare, minimum wage more worker's law, etc, these big corporations support all of these types of government interventionism
You are fucking deranged.

Chimps freak out if another chimp gets something they don't have, niggers also do that exact same thing btw

Concession accepted.

Nice argument there fella

Wat

>Big corporations do push socialism
ah yes, and here's Amazon and american corporation in general when it comes to simple things such as unions
youtube.com/watch?v=AQeGBHxIyHw

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Point still stands
You are fakes. You dont want diversity
You want brown slaves that will vote in exchange of handouts.

How about you back up that claim of yours bud and I might bother argumenting your "proofs"

Only if you're the absolute bottom of society

Tell yourself whatever you want, Things are the way they are for a reason
Crying ton your body pillow wont change it.
You can not help people that cant help themselves.

no, but that would be a bonus

I hate socialism because I don't trust the retarded global population to ever create a functioning society that doesn't rely on hierarchy and exploitation. You have too much trust in this fuck up species.

>Explain marxism to a brainlet
Some people don't work, but still get paid. They don't have merit, but still access resources.
They do so because their grand-grand father had merit, and they inherited his merit. This is stupid.
They aren't making money, their money is making money. This isn't productive. They don't produce. Without them contributing, they access much of our resources.
Frequently these people's inherited wealth that is making them wealth via rents and hiring others to work can be traced back to violence - war, colonialism, fraud, etc. Frequently the people who don't work, yet still access resources, only are able to do so because their grand-grand father stole something, or killed someone.

I think thats the just of it. Also some discredited shit about how private property didn't exist in pre-farming man, which modern anthropologists have moved away from.

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>You want brown slaves that vote for handouts
Bro I'm not a liberal lmao

Ask yourselves this: If corporate America was really pushing socialism (please think about this), why aren't they enabling worker's unions? Why is big business so anti-union?

Atleast you admit it

Socialism and its modern implications are a goldmines for giant corporations
Mass immigrations make for some cheap labor, welfare system boost consumption without making a dent in their revenue since they can move overseas or lobby congressmen
And above all, Socialism is a lot less dangerous to them than Nationalism

You just described the welfare class lol

You dont trust the ideals of socialism, the alternative is capitalism in this instance, which is the exploitation of resources, including humans

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You mean capitalists? :^)

Bernie / Warren 2020 redwave bash the fash

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That didn't exist when Marx wrote, so he didn't address it in his books.
In many ways what we've decided to do to address the "meritocracy, but with inheritance" issue is that we grant merit to the worst among us, so that they shut up.

should include the factory owner meme

>le bootstraps meme

Because unions take away from their profits, things like welfare and exploitable foreign labor dont. Look.at Walmart, they have been paying their employees shit and directed their employees to apply for food stamps and welfare so they could keep their wages low. Like the other user said, they arent pushing a socialist economic system just socialist programs. A socialist economic system.could never work in america, it would lead to war if you tried to get rid of private property.

read this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question

Literally everything in your post is wrong.
Immigration is not socialism. Nothing in your post is socialism.
In socialist society there would be no corporations you know?
>And above all, Socialism is a lot less dangerous to them than Nationalism
Stupidest part of your crap post. How about read some history which side corportaions have backed.

Destiny debates

Which is why we need to push for Unions. Which is why we need to push for the abolition of these systems that enable this endless exploitation.

The factory owner meme is that same story.
>his dad had money (probably because his dad had money)
>so his money bought land and building and machines
>so his money hired workers
>so the workers produce, and get paid a portion of their produce
>so his money is making money without him producing, just renting other people's produce

Thats Marx's argument, in the most brainlet tl;dr I can make it.

Socialism equals giving power to the state
Money controls the state

Look at corporations that are pushing censorship, cant complain about their business practices if they hired a tranny to head the department, that makes you a bigot user.
Why are corps for open borders? Cheap slave labor anyone?

You really dont think these corps have their hands filling the pockets of people like Bernieboy? How else will he pay for his 3rd beach house.

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>Socialism equals giving power to the state
Actually no.

Based poltard btfoing devs

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Sorry , but yes
Politicians wouldnt be pushing it if it wasnt so.

So what was Marx's proposed solution?

>Look at corporations that are pushing censorship, cant complain about their business practices if they hired a tranny to head the department, that makes you a bigot user.
What does that have to do with socialism again?

Please, please just try to read even wikipedia articles on what you are talking about before writing about them.

communism

He hugely advanced our understanding of economics, no matter where you're placed on the political spectrum, he was a genius

Despite the fact the entire thing was made to demonstrate that the system need to change (communism); he didnt hate capitalism at all, he was even admirative of it and thought it as necessary for the emergence of communism

His own views would actually greatly differ from modern marxism, he was in favor of executing thieves since they steal from the community of workers, also extensively wrote about how open marriage disgust him, it was one of his argument to destroy marriage too, since sity bourgeous already "shared" their wives anyway

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Corps pushing lefty shit so it can benefit them.

But you guys keep thinking your "fighting the power"
just ignore that all the major corps are pushing the same lefty shit as you.

And what does that entail.

Basically, yeah. The system basically eats whatever value it can from workers to increase its own profits, and workers can't do shit about it because the Unions have been rendered powerless, they can't get jobs anywhere else because jobs are shrinking in comparison to the human population with the increasing rate of automation, and of course he can't start his own business because he'll never own enough startup capital to succeed.
Well, what are we going to do about it? We need to bust up the corporations and bring them into public accountability. It's really hard to do that when you take their side and decry every sort of motion made to take power from them as 'socialism' like a good little lap dog.

No inheritance. Things are distributed as needed by a central "totally not a government" soviet (literally council).
No money. The money replacement proposed, some labor voucher shit, would have an expiration date, that way you can't accumulate it.
No managers. The workers doing something would democratically vote on what to do and how to do it.

I dislike the last one, as I am a fan of hierarchy. I am so-so about planned distribution of resources. I would be opposed to it as recently as 10 years ago, but with advancements in AI, and with how well Amazon is doing (essentially a planned economy between warehouses armed with AI and big data), I think we could get there in the near decades. It might be feasible, at least in smaller countries at first.

How can you STILL think that liberals = socialism. Holy fuck.

I have a question, what would a Marxist society do about the overwhelmingly lazy leaches? I'm not talking about people who cant work I mean neets and ghetto dwellers who have no desire to work or make a living off criminality?

>happens every time
>'no u'
Great job

In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]

So politicians are not pushing socialism?
lol k.
Or do think it wont be the state dictating how much you get every month like everyone else?

thats a long answer, but to put it shortly to steer society away from capital gain, to stop needlessly exploiting ourselves, the environment and our resources for profit and instead work together for greater societal goals, like a healthier society with more vitality and longevity, scientific advancement to benefit humanity, also with communism there would be a decentralized form of government id imagine.

>No inheritance.
Yeah, no thanks. I'm not giving my shit away to strangers. Goes against nature too, you want to leave your wealth to your children to at least attempt to make their lives better and them successful.

A critique of capitalism based on working conditions in British industry, where children were dying in factories for shit pay. Common sense at the time. Rather than workers rising up and taking control of industry as predicted though, working conditions gradually increased thanks to government regulation and no revolution happened.

Years later, it became popular with Russians because their country was absolutely shit. Revolutionaries started a civil war and used it as an excuse to take control of industry and enrich themselves. Everyone starved.

100 years later trendy students with no sense of perspective love it because, despite living in the most prosperous society ever, they need something to blame their failures on.

shitty bait.

>absence of social classes
I don't see how that is realistically possible, not even in caveman society. Only way that could work if you basically were a lone entity.

Lenin (I think?) wrote:
>He who does not work, shall not eat.
It might be citing something christian, not sure.
But practically, the society would punish the leeches. Which requires authority to be given to the council to threaten, and possibly enact, violence. Which is how things get sour.

Many marxists are more optimistic, saying that if everything is taken care of, nobody would be lazy, and laziness is the result of alienation from the fruit of your labour, etc. I don't think so. I remember I was in zombie mode doing nothing lazy for years.
I think this problem can't be resolved without a totalitarian regime. Hopefully it at least puts on "a human face", as the lefty meme goes. I really don't know, and it scares me.

Ive seen people like Michael brooks be ok with ideas of having managers just with an informed and democratic process putting the workers in on important matters

Reminder that ANCAP fags are just as bad at economy 101 as commies

>So politicians are not pushing socialism?
If you honestly think that is happening in america you are deluded. Please say a single major US politician that is advocating ending capitalism. I'll wait.

>instead work together for greater societal goals

Look up diversity and social cohesion

So your kid gets an easy ride without having to work for it, and in return grows up to be a snotty rich brat who doesn't see the people he employs (read: steals labor value from) as people, but as mechanisms to gain more profit.

In the interests of a decent and fair society, we need to put strict limitations on inheritance. Sorry, but we've been trying it for the last hundred years an some change-- it turns out that letting people pool massive amounts of capital generationally is having a bad effect on the world. You want to give your kid a good life? Then work towards a world that's better for everybody.

I'm actually pretty pro union so I dont disagree but we also need to strip companies like amazon of all their government incentives that make it easy for them to strangle proletariat business owners who are barely staying afloat due to government aid. A company like Amazon is pretty much surviving on corporate welfare while strangling smaller businesses and if unions came in the smaller businesses would probably go under unless the market was fair. Bezos shouldn't be getting tax breaks and deals with the USPS while mom and pop can barely stay afloat.

...

It's meant classes like workers, capitalists, slaves, leading elite class.

Your joking right?
Damn

Yeah, it would honestly be interesting to see how america would handle a marxist system but scary as an american lol.

Technically if everyone is getting what they want from the body doing the distribution, you shouldn't be scared for your children.
But I do agree it goes against, if not human nature, than at least western culture. Many of our stories, myths, songs, etc, it goes against them. It would feel very bad to very many people, and they'd reject it. I am not sure, but I think I might too.
Also it bleeds into the lazy leech problem. If you don't need to work for the next generation, you might consider just not working. At most it is you who gets punished. Your children will be taken care of. And working harder won't result in more resource access, so why bother. If there was accumulation and inheritance, you would break your back to accumulate more stuff for your kids.

Its an issue I haven't seen solved by socialists. The best suggestion (which was tried here, and in most of the Warsaw Pact I think) is a sort of honor system. Hard workers were given medals, awards, all professions had a special holiday celebrating them, nice looking houses were given a special plaque to put on the door saying "exemplary home", etc. Basically the Employee of the Month! system wageslaves get now, was used in the socialist states to encourage harder working. That, and being given the ability to travel abroad or buy foreign currency (basically for contraband).

Is that the best the left can do? muhpol

I have three proposals I think would be hard for anyone NOT a corporate shill to take issue with.

1. Enable and empower workers unuons, make it illegal to prevent your employees from joining one
2. End corporate welfare
3. Outlaw lobbying

Have you read the part after socialism, aka "AND ITS MODERN IMPLICATIONS" ?

>Read some history which side corportaions have backed.
I'm 100% confident I read more about history tahn you had in your entire life

I suggest you limit yourself to the current matters
Like how all the tech giants are all bankrolling the democrats today, and how H.Clinton managed to get twice the campaign funding of Trump. Maybe you should wonder why.

>So your kid gets an easy ride without having to work for it, and in return grows up to be a snotty rich brat
Tall claims.
>In the interests of a decent and fair society
meme
Yeah, I suppose. But people are not going to become equal any time soon, hierarchies are everywhere.
>Technically if everyone is getting what they want
Also don't see that happening any time soon.

I'm not. I'm still waiting.

Why? Because your shitty meme ideology got dunked on?
19th century Marxism was basically a criticism of 19th century capitalism with the addition of a really vague solution to the problem in the form of communism. In the late 19th, and through the 20th century, it was rendered irrelevant in most developed nations by the Government finding various ways to buy off the poor.

21st century Marxism is about trigger warnings and girlcocks.

As the slav saying goes, a room full of pussy, and you grabbed a dick.
A lot of better posts to respond to here, why pick that one? Its like you wanted to get offended to begin with.

Diversity 'ruins' social cohesion because your corporate masters pit you against the scary brown people and produce lots of liberal AND conservative propaganda to make you waste your time and energy fighting a 'culture war' against them while they screw you both over for hand-over-fist profits.

>replayed the first game a couple of times
>had some great fun with it
>can't bring myself to finish the second even once
>all that item / amor / HP bloat
>respeccing at any time makes me abuse it for all skillchecks and build op as fuck chars that steamroll everything

Help

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Not him but as the old saying goes, wealth never survives three generations, so that money will come back to society, eventually.

I feel sorry for all you lefty's

You fell for the scam your own party sold you
Now you are in debt and have no future. And are still brainwashed into think more low paid 3rd world workers will help your wages increase.

it's like you people really base your understanding of politic on memes and youtube vids

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>all that item / amor / HP bloat
Honestly damage goes up at the same rate as HP/armor, if you are building well.
Did you fall into the trap if building mostly utility, and less damage? Those are DOS1 strats. Adjust.

>le working for a better world bad

>creates an anarchic socialist society
>3 minutes later it turns into laissez faire capitalism
Marxism can only be maintained by force, so you can't have it without a powerful totalitarian State.

No.

Low-wage third world workers aren't the enemy-- it's the corporations who make you compete with them.

But I am not in debt?
I make 3x average wage here, and I'm buying a home in the capital this year.
If you are talking to americans, they are all in debt, regardless of ideology.

You have washed a dem debate correct?
They are all pushing socialism.

Or did you think wording it
>advocating ending capitalism

Changes what I said?
>So politicians are not pushing socialism

>more buttons than WoW
Into the trash it goes.

Laughing at you isnt being offended
But I can see how that would confuse you as the left made a business out of being offended

It's not that it's bad it's just that not all people are thinking like that and not everyone is even capable of caring about it for one reason or another.

It's not that it's hard to overcome, the annoying part is replacing almost all equipment after 1-2 level ups.
The stats gap between levels is just too huge and legendary yellow items turn to utter garbage too fast, makes finding them not exciting at all.

>AND ITS MODERN IMPLICATIONS
Does this mean /pol/ tier views what socialism is or what? What are the modern implications?

>I'm 100% confident I read more about history tahn you had in your entire life
Feel free to prove me wrong by showing me how capitalists have backed socialists rather than nationalists.

>Like how all the tech giants are all bankrolling the democrats today, and how H.Clinton managed to get twice the campaign funding of Trump. Maybe you should wonder why.
And here we see the reason. DEMOCRATS ARE NOT SOCIALIST THEY ARE NOT LEFTIST. They are liberals very much in support of capitalism.
Please americans try to get that through your heads.

Marx also wrote that for this to happen, it needed first to have the state seize everything to prepare the transition to a classless society

Every single occurence of communism we know was this, the "transition" phase and none of them yielded a classless society

That's like 99% of rpgs.

>Also don't see that happening any time soon.
The resources for it exist, but the infrastructure to properly distribute probably doesn't.
It would be Google or Amazon that develops it. Some very serious AI, powered by some big data system being fed a lot of personal info.
At any rate, all previous attempts at a planned economy were old men prematurely ejaculating so they can see the revolution happen within their lifetime, even though the tech isn't here. Like, how the fuck did the USSR think they can plan an economy with no computers, and even no spreadsheets?

didnt mean to link

And you have to compete with them even more when their numbers grow.

This is what you retards consider to be a good game nowdays.

>equipment doesn't last
>the gap between levels is too much

Absolutely agree on both, and I dislike both.
They actually had to rebalance leveling and items in the last moment, because they didn't realize all their testers had gotten so good at the game they powered through it like speedrunners, and the balance was awful. Swen gave a talk about it at GDC, addressing how he made a heat map of character deaths to balance according to it. The problem being the testers weren't dying like normal people, and some were doing challenge runs, like beat the game with no armor, or no magic, and thus dying in awkward ways, so the states were useless.

200 million dead within 70 years.

Im american and not in debt, because i didnt buy what the libs were selling
No feminist dance degree for me.

And why are you blaming them for that and not the capitalists who have hand-crafted this exact situation so that they can profit off of your conflict?

we're all in debt sweetie, usury is the guiding light of western neoliberalism

this is why islam is unironically the only way forward

I am not "the left" you speak of. American politics don't exist outside of the USA. None of the teams you love or hate play in any other league. Nobody agrees with your "left" or your "right", nor are they really left nor right.

Why do you thinking flooding more of them in helps you?

>Every single occurence of communism we know was this, the "transition" phase and none of them yielded a classless society
Ayy, let's kill factory owners and install factory managers, how can that go wrong. We'll be classless in no time, you'll see.

American politics exist everywhere
Our debates are watched more than you watch your own.

True. Which is why I personally think, being an anarchist, states and hierarchies should be dissolved from start.

there are too few decent RPGs recently that this doesn't really matter. plus I'm pretty sure they just gave devs and kickstarters a bunch of tombstones to write whatever they want because the puns on 90% of them are just plain bad, and I like stupid jokes for the most part.

So an economic and social system that runs on expected good faith of the people? No wonder it's only a theoretical utopia. As soon as the human as a factor comes into play, the entire thing just collapses on it's own.

oyvey
islam
same group different religion
one rapes your wallet,
the other rapes your daughter

>DEMOCRATS ARE NOT SOCIALIST THEY ARE NOT LEFTIST. They are liberals very much in support of capitalism.
Ok you're american, I understand now

You should know that socialism isnt opposed to capitalism. Social-Democracy is a thing you know.

What you're advocating here is not socialism, it's communism.

indeed bruder, never forget the 500 million executed by communism. just think of the 800 billion white aryan babies put into gulags by the communists.

this is why the IMF cucked post-soviet states. they have to pay reparations for their crimes against the white race

Talk about bad toombstone puns. I was replaying Sacred Gold few days ago and tombstone jokes are just bizzare. It's probably partially because it's from a different country and time.

Everyone share equal amount of goods.
A paradise for slackers a hell for hard working men.
The point is, this system should take place only if there is excessive amount of goods. Like distant future where everything is produced by self-contained robotic system or something.
It should work this way:
You could take any car for a ride, smash it, take another, smash it and so on. Because cars are excessive - there is no need for cars.
But there would never be a car of your own. You own nothing.

>social democracy

dude crony capitalism but with sprinkles and a smiley face drawn on top lmao

Your debates are watched for the same reason your "wrestling" is watched, and its not politics.

Divinity 2 had dumb/pun tombstone jokes too. I just figure it's a thing they like to do.

I view anarchism as a meme. Even in tribal societies there are hierarchies and you can't escape them unless you're a hermit and that shit sucks. So unless we reach such tech level were you can basically live in your own VR world it's just not happening.

why is everyone triggered by this? did they die or something

I don't think that they alone particularly help or hurt me. I'm more concerned with the fact that these poor folk from the second and third world are being used, essentially, as a gun held up to our collective heads to further bury our bargaining power as workers, you're angry at the gun (immigrants) rather than the wielders (capitalists and corporate interests). Think about it-- who's really benefitting the most from the status quo? It's not Alejandro who came here to try and feed his family, it's the guy who's making hand-over-fist, not only from his cheap labor, but from you when the conservative block tries to fight reform that empowers the working class to keep them competitive in an environment where capitalists will threaten to make them even poorer by shipping their jobs overseas.

Alejandro from Mexico wants to lead a comfortable life where his family is well fed with a roof over their heads. The reason you think Alejandro from Mexico is your enemy is because that mode of thinking keeps you from organizing WITH Alejandro to contest big business and demand better treatment. By engaging in class warfare, you're not actually addressing the fact that this entity with power over both of you is essentially forcing you both to fight each other so it can make more money.

>Ok you're american
I am not.

>You should know that socialism isnt opposed to capitalism
It quite literally is.
>Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management
First sentance on wikipedia.
Where as capitalism is PRIVATE ownership of the means of production

>Social-Democracy is a thing you know.
Still capitalism

I'm not sure if you're the same person who I replied before but you didn't adress any of my points. What about those capitalists supporting socialists? What are the "modern implications"

Are Larian just huge fucking hacks? They haven't made a single good game after Divine Divinity.

We have to play out the system in some country as an experiment for a couple of generations to be sure, but I am also skeptical.
Game theory has been played by policemen in investigations for a long time, and the majority of criminals betray each other rather than keep silent for the common good.

No, you're just a huge fucking contrarian.

I liked this game, but then after spending so many hours on the first part of the game.
by the second level I was exhausted.
My only complaint its the voice acting, my god I fucking hated it.
especially that fighter bitch with southern accent and every single fuckin animal.

L&H

If we remove profit motive from society everyone will be angles.
Of course all this actually accomplishes is that the competitive arena for individuals moves away liberal business and back to the traditional statecraft. Marxism is ironically rather reactionary.

whats that even mean?

Nice buzzword, but it's completely meaningless.

Equality is literally impossible. There doesn't exist a single fucking creature on this earth that lives in a group where hierarchy doesn't exist. Those with the most to benefit from abolishing the current hierarchy will always fully support this pipe dream, but the moment they actually have to walk the walk and hand off the power they gained suddenly, they back out and decide to enjoy their new found power. Communists and every other ideology preaching "equality" just seek to replace the ruling class with themselves, or at the very least elevate their own social standing. Not only has anarchy never existed, it will never exist either. If a single person on this earth is stronger than another, they will enforce themselves on the weaker party.

indeed, DD wasn't much too

>will never ever have a family

OS1 or 2?

they were both slogs at the beginning but 1 was worse for me. i didnt mind the voice acting though.

yeah and there doesn't exist a single creature on Earth with the intelligence of man either. And I like how you expect us to blindly accept that the current hierarchy is something to be upheld

INT > STR

Not if the weak gang up on the strong-- until the remaining strong know better and decide to cool their heads. Divide and conquer. Of course, this is only if the 'weak' working class can stop fighting itself and start making demands. Strong people are only strong so long as the weak consent to being exploited.

>you're angry at the gun (immigrants) rather than the wielders (capitalists and corporate interests).
>The reason you think Alejandro from Mexico is your enemy
I'm the him but where is he blaming them ? Where does he state that Paco is the enemy ? Nowhere.

People just ask and vote for the control of their borders and you suddenly barge in to tell them that "Mexicans are not bad people".

Well no shit sherlock but there are economics reality at work here, by bringing in massive number of immigrants you are plummetting wages and driving up the cost of rents and education.

Yelling that Alejandro from Mexico "isnt your enemy" doesnt actually respond to anyone's concern here

This new wave of american socialists are pushing it too.
Not sure democratically elected managers and CEOs would work in cutthroat industries. In many fields like automobile manufacturing or foods or retail, the profit margins are so thin, that you HAVE to treat workers like absolute dogshit to not go out of business. And unless this system is enforced in a brutal fashion by upstairs, there will be companies that cheat and get ahead, punishing the honest players on the market. And of course prices would go up, USA would lose the global markets, etc.

It has to be global or it will fail, in a global economy you can't do such a reform locally. You'll be played by the rest of the world.

>they were both slogs at the beginning
Really? Because it felt to me like D:OS2 was best at the beginning and gradually got worse and more forgettable after Fort Joy.

It's not like you can't use INT to enslave and overpower others. Making other do things for you is all about that.

That feel when capitalism will be humanity's last form pf government when we all die from the unlivable conditions thanks to material exploitation

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>First sentance on wikipedia.

>as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]

Maybe you should not have stopped at the first sentence.

now that i think about it youre right
fort joy was pretty great and so was the last town

i honestly can barely remember anything in between

>Not if the weak gang up on the strong
Who's gonna lead them? What will happen with those leaders?

Then why don't you change the economic reality by disabling the ability of capitalists to 'plummet wages and drive up the costs of rent and education'?

>Who's gonna lead them?
Caesar, Napoleon, Stalin.

>What will happen with those leaders?
Caesar, Napoleon, Stalin.

>capitalism
>form of government

You should have paid attention in school

Capitalism is a system for resource distribution, and not a form of government, you poor victim of capitalist education.

>why don't you change the economic reality

Ok let's skip small talk, what is your magical solution ?

>And I like how you expect us to blindly accept that the current hierarchy is something to be upheld
That's entirely your own projection, because you operate entirely under the "you're either\ with me or against me" program. Marxism and communism are capitalism without the illusion of choice. Under capitalism you can get lucky, under communist rule the only luck that matters is you being born to the ruling class or useful to them. It's like being given the choice of firing squad or torture by people who kidnapped you, yeah no shit, I'd take "let me live" if it was an option, but I'd rather not get fucking tortured to death. Regulated capitalism works, but regulated capitalism is as much of a pipe dream as communism where human greed doesn't turn the state into an all powerful entity. I'm not defending capitalism, but if the alternative is communism, Marxism, or anything preached in modern lefty shithole campuses, I'll be taking crony capitalism any day of the week.

>game mocks m*rxists
>stop playing it reeeee

nah

Leaders are a meme. Cults of personality that install themselves as governments are the enemy of the people, no matter what institution they are built off of. It is impossible to instate socialism under one-- only to achieve a State Capitalist system that centralizes the exploitation.

You can have an economy where you get $50k/yr while your CEO makes $50 mil/yr.

Or you can have an econony where both you and your CEO starve together in a labor camp.

OS1, but both are slow at the beginning, it felt
as if I did so much but progress so little that I was too tired to try keep going forward.
But when I heard the animals speak and that "H'owdy pardner'' it made me cringe

Sounds like one group has more than another. Haves and have nots. Aka, capitalism.

It is still opposed to capitalism what was the point?

Aren't these Kickstarter backer rewards anyways?

>work part time in community college
>graduate with no debt and a trade degree
>own a house at 26
So which category do I fall into?

Name one

>leaders
There should not be those.

You ACTUALLY read "Citizen ownership of equity" and still have the balls to tell me that socialism is directly opposed to capitalism ?

Universal basin income is not steickly a left wing concept:

"Conservative views: support for basic income has been expressed by several people associated with conservative political views. While adherents of such views generally favor minimization or abolition of the public provision of welfare services, some have cited basic income as a viable strategy to reduce the amount of bureaucratic administration that is prevalent in many contemporary welfare systems. Others have contended that it could also act as a form of compensation for fiat currency inflation.[29"

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

Google it. But private browse

I agree it is not. You will soon see capitalists too start pushing it as it still allows them to stay in power and absurd wealth, while automatisation takes all the jobs.

Good luck with that.

if you didnt buy it with cash and have a mortgage, you fall into the "in debt" category

if not, congratulations, you're the reason why the guy you replied to said "pretty much everyone"

>Everyone is fed, housed and happy
How is that not a good, ethical idea? It's also entirely unrealistic.

How is saying Marxism is full of good ideas that don't work out bad? It's literally 100% correct. If you want. China has it rough since they are simultaneously subjected to the horrors of both capitalism and communism.

>what is your magical solution?
>"disabling the ability of capitalists to plummet wages and drive up the costs of rent and education"

>Finland tested Universal Basic Income and the results were that the employement levels stayed the same
Finland tested it on 2000 unemployed people.
The results were that those people weren't more likely to find a job that those who didnt benefit from UBI.
They didn't test on any employed people.

>happy
>humans
>happy
Feed them and house them and they will still find reasons to moan and be angry about.

Ok, so again, let's skip the small talk and tell us HOW do you plan to implement that ?

At first I was tempted to tell you that's exactly what Donald Trump is trying to do by closing the border, but I got a hunch that's not what you're thinking about ?

Thanks. Someday we will see it. I hope.
I'll allow AI gods and masters though. They are fine as long as humans are not controlling them. If they don't kill us that is.

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>the more productive workers gets a larger share of social wealth

tell that to collective farmers who were forced to work 7 days a week under harsh conditions and live like peasants

it's all nice on paper but reality never emulates theory

Do people think you will have to work MORE under socialism than capitalism?

>open borders, multiculturalism, sexual degeneracy
so capitalism?

>buying land/a house
I'm sure that works well in communism

"We believe the rich will stay in our country and allow us to redistribute their wealth equally, rather than run off to another nation and leave basically nothing in our country to redistribute."
also
"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."

"Closing the border" doesn't actually change the ability of the corporate entities to do these things that negatively affect your way of life. There will just be some other excuse that the system regurgitates out instead of 'brown man taking your jobs make your wages low', it's going to become 'increasing automation makes wages low and jobs hard to find'. And at that point, the jobs aren't going to be coming back, since the capitalist class will just have to employ a small army of nerds to keep their machines running and end up taking what little chance for social mobility existed for the bottom 95% of society to begin with.

As much as you hate to think about it, it's time to start seriously reconsidering capital redistribution via means of policy and social activism (i.e. forming unions to put pressure on corporations from the bottom while electing less and less corrupt politicians to put increasing pressure on them from the top to) to allow all of society to benefit from increasing material productivity, instead of just the very, very few who enslave us.

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seize

pretty cucked attitude desu

Automation IS the main reason why I support UBI.

I support dismantling most of the bureocracy of welfare and replace it by a bare minimum for housing and food (if you can't live in Califórnia, move to utah. If you need more money, try to get a job)
The fact that people need to work to survive is the main social problem in the world. Removing that we lose bullshit jobs and gain productive, engaged and happy workers. With automation and a just and flat income tax we can achieve this (UBI is not taxed).
It even reduces the risk and cost of job mobility. I'm tired of being a pencil pusher. I have a safety net to quit my jog and try to be a musician or some shit.

Not everything is perfect though: armstrongeconomics.com/armstrongeconomics101/economics/universal-basic-income-insanity-or-rational/

>dude the rich will just pack up the means of production, put it on a private jet and flee to cyprus

>I expect a government that is made up of backwater hick revolutionaries to understand how to make the most of a nation when all the capital has left and all we're left with are peasants who will take up more resources than they can produce.
The only socialist nations that work are only able to do so by leeching off of capitalist nations. Feel free to literally debate any of this.

the problem i have with UBI is it creates a class of absolute dependency. i mean it's not like that doesn't exist today, but under UBI you can really stretch the limits of authority. take for example someone on UBI who's boycotting amazon because they're employing child slave labor in libya or something. well, unfortunately for them, jeff bezos is effectively paying their monthly check, and he's not too happy about it. so suddenly one month your check isn't in the mail, and you contact the bank and they say "please hold, you are currently position #18,546,008 in queue" and then suddenly you're on the street because you can't pay rent and that UBI check was the only thing keeping you afloat.

but, fortunately and unfortunately, this is the lesser of evils. i see the future of automation and mass alienation/disenfranchisement split between two paths: UBI or eugenics, malthuse style. i was never a fan of the idea of executing the poor to be honest.

>Automation IS the main reason why I support UBI
But why even have capitalism in highly automated society? Where high percent of people have been liberated from work.
Wouldn't it be better that the insane productivity that automation brings is shared between all. Rather than going to the pockets of the few? Why should only the few profit so so much more than othera from those metal slaves?

>Dude lmao just let the capitalists go somewhere else

What if there's nowhere else for them to go to?

youtu.be/HxjpvPSKkLw

I like divinity os but i’m such a completionist I can’t bring myself to play it because of how readily it will kill npcs and fail quests

Cant believe how fucking delusional "Marxists" and "Socialists" are.
As a oldfag that was raised in Socialist Central Europe, traveled around world to rich Socialist countries. I can tell you without a doubt that it will never work. People like to use Norway as example of working socialist country when they dont realize their budget gets annualy around 500 million dollars surplus over a WHOLE YEAR SPENT from Gas / Oil sale.
It has incomparably lower population density and higher IQ/Education then any other country with simillar size.
Everyone who went through Socialist system knows its worst thing that can happen to a country because of human nature. Just look up Jordan Peterson talking about it to give you a glimpse why even
psychiatrists think it's impossible on mental level for humans to do that.

Attached: Untitled.png (1484x114, 17K)

What part of seizing assets do you not understand?

There will always be somewhere else for them to go, because we will put you down one nation at a time, commie scum. Have fun with your irrelevant ideology as your people starve, while I sit over here in my big house, with my nice car, my sweet wife, and a pantry full of food.

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>300 post politics thread started over a thinly veiled communism reference in DOS
for how soul crushing that is in relation to the absolute state of this board I'll give OP props for being at least somewhat subtle

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Wait a minute this isn't video games

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>Literally mindblanks and becomes a bootlicker because muh status quo

Lazy retards steal money from hardworking people.

>norway is socialist
>jordan peterson
...

An apt description of the modern capitalist if I've ever seen one.

It gets better if you dig it

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>any Larian game
utter trash
heavens help Baldur's Gate 3 in the hands of those garbage developers
(but since Crowford and Mearls literally ruined the D&D lore with comedy bullshit in TofA and Descent into Avernus I don't give a shit anymore)

the goverment will force you to stay in your class

1- the robot owners deserve most of the money. And have the expenses of maintaining them.
2- you already have an income tax. I think it fair that it's the same for averybody else. But, since they earn more, they pay more

objectively wrong.

lol

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The part where your ass who can't flip burgers properly let alone run a transistor factory runs the means of production straight into the ground

t. person who don't play D&D or know Larian's past

>what is nordic model
>what is clinic psychiatrist that gave lectures on Harvard
nice arguments pleb

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They already do that.

>game references current events

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not for people with hight iq
oh wait..

But they themselves did not make the robots. Nor do they maintenance them. Why do they reap the most benefits? Why just not cut them, what do they contribute?

>hight iq
Indeed, user, indeed.

They only like to argue,they dont care about actual politics.

to be fair you can choose to have alotta skills
my 2handing smacky dude for instance has like 10 skills, of which only 5 see common use and the other 5 are just... because i had the memory to equip it

Ah yes the hight iq. Mine is 189cm iq

>No option to show him your tits

What the fuck

SOMEONE ARREST THIS WOMAN

>horrible combat system
>tfw i will never have taste this bad
feels good man

>"Closing the border" doesn't actually change the ability of the corporate entities to do these things that negatively affect your way of life
Yes it does, look at your own graph
Some random shmuck out of college in 1960 could get a job for a wage equivalent to 19$/hour today
How ? Well it's simple, corporations need workers and the law of market apply, few people want these shitty jobs so they have to put actual money on the table to attract them.

It all got solved with the magic of immigration post 1970. You just import low skilled 3rd worlders ready to take any job, and now you can pay your starbuck barrista 10$/hour.
What if they leave tho ? Who care, there's more applicant in El Paso.

>As much as you hate to think about it
I LOVE to think about it actually, which is why I asked you about your magic solution
Sadly you just dodge with evasive statement or blanket answer like "elect less corrupt politicians!" so there's not much to think about here

Or, you could force companies to compensate workers a fair amount instead, or to provide other benefits, and cut out the middle man. And if they try to out-source, demand that they need to extend the benefits they provide to overseas workers to be allowed to do business in the United States. There. Now those jobs aren't profitable to ship off somewhere.

It's anti-muslim bigotry

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nothing shows up stop being an ambiguous fag and spill it already

Dragon Commander 2 when

>marxism
>muslims
???

>oh noez scary brown people

Oh no retard

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>oh noez scary brown people :(

sry but I don't legally own a person, slavery was abolished years ago

Slavery was formally abolished, but we're all still stuck in wage slavery.

What is this? Almost looks like terror attacks or something.

There were never as many slaves in history of mankind as now in Africa / Middle East.

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>Or, you could force companies to compensate workers a fair amount instead, or to provide other benefits, and cut out the middle man.
That's great, company now have to pay their workers a lot more, but the added cost force them to lay off a large part of their employees.
Remember all the poor mexicans you wanted to help ? They're fucked now because they can't get a job, so is a large part of the local population who is simply whose skills are not profitable enough to hire at a "fair" wage.

>And if they try to out-source, demand that they need to extend the benefits they provide to overseas workers
So Protectionnism, yeah that kinda work, except other countries can see through your bullshit and will fight you with their own kind of bullshit, just be prepared for it.

So communism is just capitalism but everyone works for a single company that is the government
Neato. We just need to have all the mega corporations merge into one and then we’re there

>here’s my argument for why people who dislike social safety nets are wrong
>O-OH YEAH WELL YOUR COUNTRY HAS MUSLIMS IN IT

it probably is
which is retarded since not all of those are even muslims
>NI and Ireland (and probably more than a few of the dots in the UK considering IRA bombings and shit)
>eastern Ukraine
>basque
>corsica

>Dude it's just a bunch of backward religious fanatics who enslave and exterminate minority on sight and openly declare that any place not under their rules is a battlefield
>what are you scared of lmao

I do and my nation was like that during ww2. All the old people say it was much better because everybody was guaranteed work and pay, way less homeless and overall the country prospered.
The few that hate it are nationalists and actual nazis. Whenever you asked a grandpa from that day why was it bad he starts talking shit about muh country and nazis.
It didn't last long so not sure how it would have played out but the 15years it was a thing it was pretty good

The company eneds to employ a certain amount of workers to do a certain amount of tasks. Companies already employ the minimum amount of workers to achieve this task and compensate them the minimum they are allowed. By raising the minimum they are allowed to pay them, the corporations can only respond by taking the hit or trying to raise the prices of their goods. The objective here is to keep the size of the pie the same (where the pie is the total amount of capital a corporation has to work with), but you expand the slice that goes towards employees by shrinking the slice that goes towards shareholders (which is much bigger).

The reason these backwards religious fanatics are in opposition to you is because they are made this way by people who use things like religion and economics to control them-- the same people who use religion and economics to control 'your people'.

Just play 1 with Epic Encounters installed, DoS2 itscomplete garbage and forcing yourself to play it isn't going to make you enjoy it.

I'd rather have an AMERICAN robot take my job than an illegal.

>The company eneds to employ a certain amount of workers to do a certain amount of tasks
As soon as the government decide to raise the minimum wage, the cost of doing these tasks will increase, sometimes dramatically
So a lot of theses tasks will simply stop being profitable, and will be terminated

You need to understand that 99% of companies are not the Scrooge McDuck bank-castle, they dont have the money to "Take the hit"

Unlike you who is a free thinker above all of us measly controlled peasant. Please lead us into the light, oh master of teenagers first-grade philosophy.

You're not even adressing the problem, Islam has been a cancer on this earth for 1300 years, if people are this easily "controlled" for that amount of time, maybe they're the problem, or they're simply not "controlled" at all and you're full of shit.

On some level, a task that is only profitable because someone has to do it for slave wages shouldn't be legal in the first place.

Let's look at it this way: Say the minimum wage becomes $2, and corporations are literally allowed to employ workers to do more tasks and suck up way more profit because of it. Would that be moral? No, not really. Corporations shouldn't be allowed to pay the bare minimum to employees to maximize their own profit margins.

You're being controlled too, just as everyone who believes as you do did. What you hate about these other people is everything that's also wrong with you that you don't want to admit. So you'll use them as a scapegoat and whipping (just as your masters wanted) to take your anger out on, instead of actually trying to change the system to make life better for anyone.

>If you hate slavery, the complete denial of women-rights, throwing gay people to their death, the death penatly for leaving the state-religion, the armenian genocide, the financing of worldwide terrorism and state-sanctionned oppression of minorities
>Then you're controlled by your masters
Yeah that's the only explanation, mb.

I'm so glad I have leftists thinker here to support and open my mind about all these great achievements.

All of this of course totally not related to the fact all leftist party switched their stance from anti-religion to doing lip service to muslim immigrants for their votes.
Clearly you're not the one controlled by your masters here, man I wish I was THIS much of a free-thinker.

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They paid for the robots. And pay people to do the maintenence.

Ubi is compatible with capitalism! What are you talking about?

He thought it was a good idea to eliminate class in society by creating new classes

Yeah that was China, like twice.

I'm so sad Dragon Commander had shit gameplay. The concept itself could be fun as fuck.

Marxism isn't even applicable after WWI and WWII and yet we now have the retardation that is intersectionality and 3rd wave feminism today thanks to Marxists

I know ubi is compatible with capitalism. I was arguing why we need capitalism in a highly automated society in the first place.

>Giant corporations are not lefty
>what is Silicon Valley

Please read what being politically left means in some dictionary or something.
Name one corporation that is a worker co-operative. Name one corporation that has no CEO's.

Name a single "lefty" corporation.

>2-man party
There's your problem. You Lone Wolf abusing fuck.

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Have you seen the movie? Hes a hated "member" of society, looked down upon by all actual humans and seen as something lesser. He spends most of the movie chasing what may or may not be an artificial memory that he probably never actually had, and portrays sadness, loneliness, and anger in a very believable way. You should watch it user, its really good.

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>great ideas that never worked out
yeah like a car that doesn't need energy to drive, a pill that cures all diseases with no side effects, time travel and teleportation. patents pending, do not steal these

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top kek if leftist company means worker co-operative, then they don't exist for good reason

Can't even see those goalposts

K that kind of works in majority demographic that values work amongst other traits. It's not working out as well now that other demographics with different ideals being introduced and becoming a plurality in Finland. It only ever works if everyone buys into it. Thanks s why it will never work.

So someone gets more than someone else for more effort. Hmmm that doesn't sound like communism anymore.

Still waiting for those "leftist" corporations

Nice fenceposts buddy. When you have corporations pushing an agenda and actively censoring opposing ideas that doesn't qualify as leftist?
>Name one corporation that is a worker co-operative
Venezuela's nationalized oil sector. Guess what happened to that? I'm talking about organizations of actual consequence here.

Google

How is google leftist?
REMEMBER LIBERAL =/= LEFT

Watch the movie, it's actually pretty good.

Islam, like all religions, is a control yoke used by the upper class to control the lower classes. It's not a good thing anywhere.

Google is not liberal at all, they are incredibly authoritarian.
Authoritarian left.

Kinda funny but that's actually a reason why those so called socialist states will begin failing. Having to take care of a large population of a different demographic that doesn't hold those values will be the end of you countries. It's the reason that shit won't fly in the US.

But how are they left? In what way is a multibillion dollar private ownership corporation with multibillion dollar bosses leftist?

The only real leftist ideal is a classless society with no lower class to be exploited by an upper class. Aspects of this are co-opted by the establishment and have become 'liberalism'.

A nationalized oil business is still capitalists, only now the capitalists directly hold political office. A 'leftist business's would have it's shareholders be the actual employees who used direct democracy to vote in and vote out their own management.

You started by questioning capitalism in an automated world!

Even a post scarcity and utopian star trek society can have capitalism.

It can but I can't see what value capitalism adds in a society like that. Absolutely nothing.

There's the excuses. Those "chill" black countries have had populaces in exsitance longer than anyone in the world. Why is that they are not the ones owning this world? They had a head start and climate that they never had the work around (AKA winter) and still they lived in mud huts like they have for thousands of years. Take your bullshit excuses out and try to make a point.

Should I keep playing 1 or just jump to 2? Yes I have a friend to play too

give me free stuff

What?

It can mean whatever you want to so nobody can ever criticize it because whatever you say is not real marxism

He also gets tricked into believing that he is special and truly unique but gets a gut-punching reality check (in front of a giant crowd) to remind him that he's actually just a rando like everyone else.

Simply put, Marx analyzed Capitalism. He discovered that all value generated in a Capitalist system is inherently exploitative because the owner of any means of production must take some of the value of their employee's labour for themselves in order to generate profit.

Marx also analyzed history through a Materialistic lens, arriving at the conclusion that the reason economic systems change is because they eventually collapse due to their inherent internal contradictions. He outlined a historical path that humanity had gone through, from primitive Communistic societies, to slaving empires, to feudalism, to Capitalism, and (eventually) to Socialism and then Communism.

He saw Socialism (which he defines as the common ownership of the means of production) as the next, inevitable and eventual step of Capitalist society, since Capitalism suffers from severe internal contradictions that will eventually tear it apart. Socialism would eventually then give way to Communism, which is a stateless, classless society free of internal contradictions and hence the ultimate endpoint of human economic history.

>.t capitalist

You're right they should.

>b-b-buh how are dey left they maek monee?!?
How does it feel to be a useful idiot?

>The only real leftist ideal is a classless society with no lower class to be exploited by an upper class
So the extreme end of anarchy is an impossible ideal? Colour me shocked.
Classless societies cannot exist. People are always going to have individuality that separates themselves from others.

Venezuela's oil companies were a desperate attempt by the communists to take control of the value generating resources of their country. You retards don't seem to understand how economics works, as typical communists. You fuckers always love to try and be the true Scotsmen.

Tell me. How are they left. Please, no one has had any argument for it.

>just force the whole world to be gommunist

Non-sequitor. Individuality is not in conflict with social equality. The idea that it is, is a meme created by capitalists desperate to hold onto their power by setting the lower classes against themselves.

It's not a 'No True Scotsman' fallacy if the 'communists' failed to actually abide by leftist principles and instead ran the nationalized business as a capitalist venture that benefitted the state.

Please read a book or something. This is all very elementary knowledge.

>"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."
GEORGE ORWELL WAS A FUCKING SOCIALIST YOU STUPID FUCKING BRAINLETS
GOD AS IF I NEEDED ANY MORE PROOF THAT YOU FUCKING RETARDS DONT FUCKING READ OR KNOW ABSOLUTELY FUCKING ANYTHING. IT'S ALWAYS THIS FUCKING QUOTE WHICH GIVES YOU IMBECILES AWAY
ALWAYS

Just like capitalism is doing now, forcing the whole world to be capitalist.

Same

everyone should be equal except not really because only the party elite gets all the power.

>Party elite
Meme

you would prefer if everyone starved?

This secret that captilist don't want you to know! You actually don't have to participate in capitalism your are more than welcome to fuck off to the middle of nowhere and live off the land.

People don't need to be forced to want to have things or be successful

No one starved in the Soviet Union past 1945, and the CIA admitted that the Soviet diet was arguably more nutritious.

epic
ps. 9 million starve every year under capitalism

Ah yes the US backed coups and assasinations of democratically elected goverments during cold war were not forced at all.

You could say this about basically any system you fucking mong

except communism

No, under an authotorian system like communism you wouldn't.

>t. retards who think slavery was abolished because they were told as much in social studies class

Expect all land in the world is "owned". And if you start following your own rules there or building a community, soon the police or military will come to get you away.

Who said anything about building a community. Fuck people.

"Our ideology doesn't seem to grab people unless they're braindead and worthless; so let's collapse any and all semblances of society that give people intelligence and value. Now let's take advantage of our newly acquired drones to revel in wealth, excess and degeneracy."

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>you must eat what we provide you
>you must live in the houses we make and design for you
>you must enjoy what we tell you to enjoy
>if you do any one of these without our approval or in any way upsets someone else you must be gulag'd

>He hugely advanced our understanding of economics
>muh class struggle
>muh labor theory of value
>muh surplus value
You just ousted yourself. You know fuck all about economics

You mean capitalism?

>.t someone who knows everything about economics because he watched a PraegerU video about it

>Implying that's all Marx did
Mongoloid

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>pol invading Yea Forums

please go back to your containment board, thanks

>But people are not going to become equal any time soon, hierarchies are everywhere.
Communism isn't about abolishing hierarchies, it's about abolishing classes.

A group of workers might, under a communist society, decide that someone needs to be the leader in order for them to be more productive. They democratically elect someone to be the leader.

faggot

cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf

That's a lizard.
They don't HAVE tits.

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>-1 +2
So a net gain? Then just redistribute points to something useful.

>non-sequitor
It is the philosophical bankruptcy of your position. This is the Ouroboros of retardation that is communism, and I’m going to go down it, step by step.

People are not equal. Men and women are not the same, cripples and healthy people are not the same, retards(like you) and geniuses are not the same.
Not just biologically, but also culturally. Culture divides us into races, nations, cities, hobbies, friends, families, all the way down to you, the individual.
Given enough time and freedom these differences eventually coalesce into different classes.
Therefore, equality, or equity, as you want it needs to be enforced. Ideally, you would want moral authority to browbeat people into the mould you want them in, but since you (rightfully)lack moral authority, you have to resort to physical authority in the form of government.
This defeats the whole goal of having a classless society, since in order to enforce your ideal you have created classes out of the workers, the bourgeoise, and the party members.

And so we get to capitalism, the big boogeyman of inequality.
The idea that money is the great creator of all evil is horseshit, it’s poverty AKA a lack of capital that causes woes. Marx sought to solve this stupidly by trying to enforce collective ownership, so everyone has a stake in the creation of wealth. Wealth is still the central driving force in all of this, because it improves the quality of life of anyone who has it.
If someone is richer than you it is not a sin, that just makes you jealous.
Your whole idea of “nationalized businesses being capitalist” is right. People need capital to exist outside of themselves as an individual. It’s the basis of society.

Please, think for yourself instead of regurgitating the ideas of a 200 year old dead man.

Are you talking about the soul link guy in the graveyard?
Yeah that was some retardation, literally answering his questions with questions.
You just have to turn your brain off there and just picked the tagged options with Fane.

Prerequisite conditions and technology are not there to facilitate emergence of such system.

Post scarcity means people have everything they need. Not everything they want.

There will still be exchange of non necessary goods and services.

>People are not equal. Men and women are not the same, cripples and healthy people are not the same, retards(like you) and geniuses are not the same.
Communism doesn't claim people are equal or try to make them equal. This is a strawman based on American propaganda regarding a completely farcical, fictionalized and ridiculous image of Communism.
>The idea that money is the great creator of all evil is horseshit
The morality of Capitalist economy is irrelevant
>Marx sought to solve this stupidly by trying to enforce collective ownership, so everyone has a stake in the creation of wealth. Wealth is still the central driving force in all of this, because it improves the quality of life of anyone who has it.
Marx didn't try to "solve" anything, he identified how Capitalism functions, which is by exploiting the labour of the working class, to generate value.

Please stop talking about things you barely comprehend and actually read Capital.

Go and check their sponsors mate.

socialists and neoliberals are allies trying to destroy national borders and create multicultural super-states
you're blind if you can't see this

socialists hate libearals for being capitalist though

doesn't fucking matter, they all vote for each other if it comes down to two choices and one of them is a nationalist. Like how western progressives will support traditionalist Muslims and vice-versa.

Socialists absolutely fucking loathe neoliberals you dumbshit.

t. Socialist who frequents Socialist circles and we constantly fucking talk shit about neoliberalism

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>create multicultural super-states
>destroy national borders
So you want Iron Curtain everywhere? And what the fuck are you on about multicultural? Nearly every country is multicultural by default.
>super-states
USA is one already, and you dont have issues with that? I mean, you should be, considering your context.

And what is liberalism and then neo-liberalism?

Marriage is joint ownership.

>Communism doesn't claim people are equal or try to make them equal.
Go tell this to 100 communists and see what they have to say. Oh, but I guess they aren’t real communists huh.

Stopped forever ago. Pathfinder kingmaker is the best crpg so far anyways.

And that’s why you’re useful idiots. You advocate the same means as them for different ends. Dancing to their tune.

and that's why socialists are fucking retarded. All you idiots have to do is wait for neo liberals to slow walk us to socialism and you'd have it.
Instead you try to accelerate the process and fuck it all up.
Hopefully you useless scum keep fucking up because I want to kill me some tankies.

Liberals don't adcocate a recolution and seizing the means of production last that I heard.

Quintessential Yea Forums thread.

Thread should have ended here.

You advocate for the dissolution of borders and the welfare state though.

>Nearly every country is multicultural by default.
Oy vey

just read the communist manifesto, it was written to be read to illiterate factory workers and shit.
wages price and profit is a good explanation of his labor theory of value, a key component of marxian theory if you want something deeper but still accessible, as the manifesto is really more of a quick summary than proper theory.

like that other user said about capital, a lot of Marx’s writings (specifically the ones on economics) are good reads. even if you disagree with him he does a good job of justifying and explaining his ideas, and considering the period and place he lived in a lot of them were understandable.
On The Jewish Question is another good read just to see Marx’s crazy side where he gets more into his utopian social views that we generally associate with Marx. (Total abolishment of religion)

Many capitalists advocate for welfare state too so what?

>Capitalists advocate for the welfare state
Neo-Liberals do, not Conservatives.

Kropotkin is a better santa than Marx

Soon all corporations conservative or not will start to push Universal Basic Income as it's the only way capitalists can keep control in a heavily automated world.

You are really dumb, arent you?

.....he just said that communists dont believe that dipshit, i went through a brief college commie phase and I never saw a single communist push that idea besides chapo trap house types shit talking the straw men you people try to argue against

I really hate how ignorant people are about Marxism, or ideologies they disagree with in general. Don’t be a dummy, actually learn what they stand for and ironman argue against them instead of building retarded strawmen.
>Jordan Peterson prepared for a debate with Slavoj Zizek by just rereading the communist manifesto, and then went on to admit that the only time he ever read marx was the manifesto when he was 19
Like why the fuck do people do this? I’m a lefty, but I’m not insecure enough to avoid studying Friedman or Rothbard as if reading them would trigger ego death or something

You're a useful idiot. It doesn't matter what you think. Your leaders and the neoliberal leaders are like peas in a pod.

Get fucking real dude. Leftist can't even get along themselves.

...They'll all say you've got no idea what Communism is? Why do you think Communism is about equality?

>all you idiots have to do is wait for free markets capitalists to bring us to socialism
pardon me what in the actual fuck are you talking about

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I am in... incredible pain.

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A lot of old guard social democrat parties are against open borders though. They are pretty protectionist.

>socialism is when there are more brown people in a society. the browner the society, the more socialister it is
Yea Forums is full of brainlet /pol/tards. Go read Capital or fuck off.

Do you really think that’s the only dynamic at play here, capitalism vs communism? God you’re retarded.

NO

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>m-muh /pol/
(You)

>communism is when the gov makes you pay taxes, and the more taxes you pay the more kids are born gay
Marx, Karl. Das Kapital, vol. 2 , Penguin Classics. pp. 145

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...What other dynamic is relevant to me as a Socialist?

2 is way worse than 1

That's stalinism/maoism

Regime change for brainlets, doesn't really do anything but let a small group of people take resources from a big group of people, fucks shit up for no apparent reason
>socialism is just a stepping stone to communism though!
yuh huh sure, let's just give all our power to the dictators fresh from their purges, very smart

tl;dr, if it's red it's dead

I'll give props for being subtle enough in the OP the jannies haven't caught on

That's kinda the only relevant dynamic yes, capitalism vs socialism when we are talking about tranforming our society from a capitalistic to socialist.

When has Communism ever been tried and that didn't happen?

Dunno those US backed coups kinda fucked that up everytime it might have happened.

Asians and Indians both make more money than white people on average even as immigrants.

>It's the reason that shit won't fly in the US.
It'll eventually fly but non white majorities will begin to restrict access to govt programs from white people as a way of punishing them. You can ask any lefty about things like affirmative action or diversity, and on the first sentence it's "diversity good!" but it doesn't take more than three "why?"s to get to "white people must be punished." If you're not actively planning to vacate the US before 2030 you're much, much braver than I am. Gonna be Haiti every which way you look soon.

cringe

>Communism doesn't claim people are equal or try to make them equal
And yet it wants to reward them all equally despite having different levels of competence and value. That destroys all motivation for anything beyond basic survival.

"why?"

mostly for 's rp

but also for for thinking that anyone thinks that european countries are socialist and future predictions based on /pol/ feelings.

"why?"

One of the best post i've ever seen on Yea Forums

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There are no classes but the State leaders, who are above you, get to decide what to do with your stuff

>And yet it wants to reward them all equally despite having different levels of competence and value. That destroys all motivation for anything beyond basic survival.
Where the fuck did you learn this tripe? Communists absolutely do not want to "reward everyone equally", whatever the fuck that means. We want to get rid of private ownership of the means of production so everyone gets the full value of their labour. Communism is inherently MORE meritocratic than Capitalism and rewarding for any hard working individual.

fuck you, I'll keep playing

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Who enforces communism? And why? Who would willingly put up with it?

How the fuck does a farmer get the full value of their labor when they owe 100% of their crops to the state, who then arbitrarily determines its distribution? How can you get the full value of your own labor if you have no ownership of what you produce? You people are fucking ridiculous.

Who would willingly put up with being a wageslave?

The only reason I would support communism is to make wealthy people have shitty lives too. Why should they be happy.

Communism literally cannot function without a totalitarian government because going above the bare minimum has to be enforced. Under capitalism you don't have to force someone to try harder because there's a positive profit incentive. Under communism there's only the negative motivation of avoiding punishment, which has to be directly enforced.

If we're talking actual, textbook Communism (AKA: Stateless, Classless society) then it would occur naturally with the erosion of the state as it becomes less and less important. Marx viewed the path to Communism as Capitalism -> Socialism -> Communism, where Socialism means that the means of production become commonly owned.

Since the State exists only to protect Capitalist interests, it would naturally erode.

>How the fuck does a farmer get the full value of their labor when they owe 100% of their crops to the state
A Communist society wouldn't have a state.

>How can you get the full value of your own labor if you have no ownership of what you produce?
You do get the full value of you labour, though. That's the entire point of Communism. To get rid of the Capitalist class which takes the surplus value that workers produce.

Well you're either a wageslave or a stateslave in these two scenarios (capitalism vs socialism). Ironically, socialists suffer from the same "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" syndrome, except it's closer to "temporarily embarrassed central planner" syndrome.

Nice. Except the state doesn't naturally erode, now does it? It just mismanages itself and ends up doing a random holodomor.

You will be a wageslave regardless. The difference is you'll work far less and have far more leisure time in a market economy

Then who the fuck determines who gets what? You either need a governing body to distribute things, or people just take anyone's shit freely, both of which mean you don't have ownership therefore you do not get 100% value. Great, you got rid of the "capitalist class," but now you have even less control over your product.

It is a great social system where wealth gets distributed equally and such. I am simplifying the shit out of it but that is all you get because despite it sounding like a neat idea on paper, every country that tried to implement it got fucked big time because you can't reasonably expect humans to equally contribute the the betterment of society. People are scrum and so are you. There will always be those who are more equal than others, and those in power who are intended to oversee the process always take advantage of the retardation of their fellow people.

I wish people who brought up famines would bring up the atrocities of the British Empire in India or similar man-made famines. This is such a vapid and desperate talking point.

There's various schools of thought on the matter. Some include labour vouchers, which is a "currency" that cannot circulate.

>It is a great social system where wealth gets distributed equally and such
Stop this equal redistribution meme, it's a fucking lie.

>open borders
>allowing all kind of people just get in and out of your country without records
>Scums from mexico immediately rush your country and destroy the economy, and being poor, the crime will also go up like robbing, or drugs issues.

>Other cultures bad
>Not entirely true, but forcing multiple different cultures together and force them to accept each other even if their culture/views clashes with each other is bad, very very bad

>gay people bad
>muh slippery slope aside, gay people that are jumping out forcing others to shower them with attentions are definitely mentally ill.
>Them trying to force the law to even give them special treatments are definitely bad
>They are just deconstructing the society by making them more important than the others

>Limits on wealth centralization bad
>Remember that the power is still in the people's hand, but the people are simply too stupid to use it.
>apple releasing stupidly expensive products
>But flocks of idiots will still go and buy it and make the rich people richer anyway

>the atrocities of the British Empire in India
So you wish people who acknowledge that a socialist government enacted genocide on its own people once it failed to govern would also offer you a non-sequitur in the form of colonialism? why? what does whataboutism have to do with anything? We were talking about socialism, let's keep on track or you're going to Siberia.

ex ditched me before finishing this game
haven't booted it up since, it's too painful
don't even want to imagine how bad it's gonna be if I finish it by myself
or worse, if I actually like it but all the worthwhile nice things that happen I'll never share with her again
not that she would've cared or it matters anymore since she replaced me at the first instance

>There's various schools of thought on the matter. Some include labour vouchers, which is a "currency" that cannot circulate.
In other words the "100% value" thing is total fucking bullshit since you faggots don't even have a consistent theory on how this would work. Your labor vouchers just amount to where you're at the mercy of the state. But hey, we don't use the term "governing class," because that exposes us as total fucking hypocrites!

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You’re forgetting about the Nationalist/Globalist spectrum, or Anarchist/Authoritarian one.

A Globalist Anarchist Socialist is a Hippie.
A Nationalist Authoritarian Socialist is a Nazi

dw bro, we're gonna seize the means of reproduction and soon you'll be allowed to get in line and see her again

OS1 and OS2 are good games though

>I wish people who brought up famines would bring up the atrocities of the British Empire in India or similar man-made famines. This is such a vapid and desperate talking point.

I wish people still would bring up that 8 million people die to starvation every year in capitalist countries. Same amount to lack of pure water. Few million more from lack of vaccines.

>8 million people die to starvation every year in capitalist countries
This is a global statistic and takes into account 3rd world countries

porkie can't exploit the worker nor take advantage of inflation and doesn't get profit he doesn't deserve, long and short.

Basically the way dumbfucks like envision it is that once you’ve had a censorious, dictatorial rule for about a century or two you can indoctrinate the people enough to the point where they think Communism is a good thing.
Then you just have to trust the ruling party enough to dissolve and relinquish all authority to create a power vacuum.
Obviously a foolproof plan.

>create a power vacuum
power vacuum filled with the power of human love and sharing*

did you even read Das Kaptial? yikes

If you do the numbers capitalism still kills more. I'll post a link soon

Russia, and China were third world countries. N.korea ofcourse too.

fucking rOASTED