Developers actually give Link personality by making the quest log his journal

Not this bullshit from a guy who doesn't know Japanese again, goddamn it. Why does misinformation spread so much more than good information? That guy saw 自分, knew that one of its meanings is "myself/oneself" and assumed that all journal entries were written in first person. If he knew anything about Japanese, he'd have known that 自分 is not a common way to refer to yourself in Japanese. Usually if a character uses it, they're an old-fashioned sort of character. Steiner uses it all the time in FF IX, but the rest of his speech patterns also fit the "old timey knight" vibe. The journal entries in BOTW are written in modern Japanese. 自分 takes on another of its meanings, "yourself" in them.

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...

Yes, I know. I saw it. I played the game in Nip and English. Does my explanation of 自分 and its usage in modern Japanese and Japanese entertainment mean nothing? That last part in his image is like "You leave to save princess Zelda quick as you can, desiring to see her smile once more."

>Why does misinformation spread so much more than good information?
But everyone is ignoring your shit information so that can't be true. Fuck off NoA employee, no one wants your trash translations.

I hate how his name is now permanently Link and you can't change it, VA was a mistake. The game says (You), I want my name to pop up

I can't possibly imagine why a warrior who has been asleep for 100 years would talk oldtimey.

>translators fuck shit up

What else is new. Also that picture seems like bullshit.

You missed the "The journal entries in BOTW are written in modern Japanese" part. I explained that when a character uses 自分 to refer to themselves ALL the time, they're typically an old timey character who has other old timey speech patterns like Steiner. However, the journals in BOTW are NOT written in an old fashioned way. At all. They're written in 21st century Japanese. I've seen faux old Japanese, and that isn't it.

T. Someone who's never played a Zelda game

I didn't do every quest in BOTW, but I did obsessively speak to every NPC in every town and stable in Japanese and English and did the main quest and some other things in Japanese. There are some weird translations (like Yunbo to Yunobo, and keeping the "goro" speech tick and none of the other Goron's for some reason, some weird changes in some text for no reason, censorship of ANY instance of body weight), but for the most part it was very well localized. I think I heard about one political reference being added to the English version, but I didn't do that quest, so I couldn't say. Wouldn't surprise me, they added sexual jokes in the localization where they didn't exist in Japanese.

Is there more of this?

Link very much doesn't have a main personality for that reason. That's why he's called "Link" and doesn't have dialogue the player can see (besides WW). He only started getting major personality traits with WW and up due to all the wacky facial expressions he got.

There are, but they're all wrong.

It's not true. Japanese is tricky, it's not always easy to know what's going on when there's not enough context, and the language can be vague at the best of times. But there's nothing in the entries to indicate they're in first person. I don't remember one instance on 私、僕、俺、中、おいら、拙者 or even 吾輩. I'm looking through some entries right now just in case, but I'm not finding anything.

Nobody fucking cares weeb don't ever reply to me again.

Link is a left handed mute with no personality beyond expressions/reactions who wears a green tunic with a silly hat. If you accept it any other way you're a cancer on par with thinking the voice acting in BotW was actually good.

Okay, explain the Ganon reincarnation line.

Most of the VA that wasn't English ranged from decent to great.

What does that have to do with the journals? Those are two totally different things. The Ganon line is weird though. You can make some amazing mistranslations when you're reading fast, but I can't see how you'd get what the localizers got. Mato offers some ideas in his article.

Either this was still censor-heavy era Treehouse or they did this because they thought non-Asians would be too retarded to understand what to do unless the quest explicitly spelled it out for them.

Yeah, it's pretty much standard for translators to alter things going from Japanese to English. The thing that pisses me off the most is when they reverse the order of sentences EVERY FUCKING TIME. Even when it ruins the intended meaning of a sentence.

Japanese is a language that focuses heavily on emphasis. Having the emphasis at the beginning or end of a sentence means a lot. Yet the horrible translators will reverse it every time. If the Japanese voice emphasizes the end of the sentence, they go through contortions to rewrite the sentence so the English version (and the dub actor saying it) can put the emphasis at the start of the sentence. Which completely doesn't work with the original character animation or the intended meaning. And it's all stupid, because 99% of the time, the same sentence could have been written in English with the emphasis at the end. It's just maddening how stupid localization teams are. This is why fan translations usually end up being better.

Why should we believe you, some random fuckwit with no real proof, instead of where the guy posted a screencap and a translation of the Japanese text?

>Mato offers some ideas in his article.
And which youtube/twitch e-celeb is this?

I'm one of the guys who already explained that the entries were actually translated correctly and that the guy who started this whole thing was probably an early learner of Japanese (think he was Chinese, probably didn't know Japanese as well as he should have). I can also say that the censorship was very light. Off the top of my head I remember:

- The Hateno tourguide saying he needs to go on a diet was changed to "I just don't have the pep for tours like I used to".
- The guy who asks you to donate 500 rupees to a great fairy will say "I bet she's slender and beautiful" if you talk to him once again after the quest is completed. The mention of "slim" was removed in English.
- Part of Purah's journal was changed. When she wrote about her body reverting to that of a teenager, she said that her assistant had starting looking at her with a dirty look in his eyes.
- Maybe the horned statue? It's called the "Devil Statue" in Japanese, but they still talk about the "gods", so that might've just been a weird change.

Other than that, I don't remember any censorship. The entry for the lonely arrow girl was actually pretty unremarkable in Japanese, but they punched it up and added sexual humor in it. Same with the "I didn't know this was that kind of honeymoon resort" girl, I can't even remember what she says in Japanese, but it's nothing sexual. Think it's just about Link looking funny.

Anyone can write an improper translation, you know? By the same token, how can you trust him? Still, maybe look at Jisho to get an idea of what I was talking about jisho.org/search/自分, and actual examples ejje.weblio.jp/content/自分 but watch out for the 自分で自分を励ます example, you'll need to look up 自分で and actually understand a bit of Japanese to understand why that one's okay.

You know the transgender Black Belt Pokemon picture people like to post here all the time? They got it from Mato's site, Legends of Localization. He's professional translator who likes to talk about video game localizations, and the guy who translated Mother 3. I think the only things he's done on Youtube is a FF VI playthrough where he talked about the localization, an FF VI modded playthrough, and a Super Mario RPG playthrough where he talked about the localization. He's nowhere near an e-celeb.

American and Nipponese are the only languages that matter and those two fucking sucked.

>JUST LISTEN AND BELIEVE
Random fuckwits with no real proof need to just shut up if they don't know anything, this is still more believable than your wall of text

Jap was good, you just have shit taste.

>By the same token, how can you trust him?
He posted an image so it must be true

The Japanese voices are fine. The problem was the director of the scene made everyone remain "grounded" and "sullen" in their delivery. At least in the cutscenes. Outside of cutscenes, the characters are lively, funny and basically, not like Zelda.

Yeah, one of these days I should make an image explaining that "Fierce Deity" is a correct translation, but I'm rarely motivated to make images. I don't even know if people still believe that one.

You shouldn't, because he's talking out of his ass.
doesn't even use the word 自分 he's sperging about.
And it's explicitly first-person because it uses
この目で見る (Third person would be その目で見る)
and 〜たい (again, this marks it explicitely as first person.)

>Wall of text

The reply to that post was two sentences.

You're really going to act like some random image posted and made by anyone can hold any more weight? The only difference between the two is the other guy is here in person.

I am Japanese, the text use 'mitai' as in want to see, this clearly shows the text is from Link's perspective. A third person journal entry saying they want to see Zelda again soon makes absolutely no sense so it is obviously Link's perspective.

>I am Japanese
And I'm Donald Trump! No seriously, just listen and believe!!!!!

>doesn't even use the word 自分 he's sperging about.

Read the actual blog post this originated from. The guy cited 自分 as being being "I".

As for この目でみたい, the Japanese can be weird about この/その usage, sometimes it's the opposite of what we'd use. It's a good point, definitely, but I've seen enough Japanese trickery to not rely on that. Considering nothing else points to first person, it doesn't seem likely.

>A third person journal entry saying they want to see Zelda again soon makes absolutely no sense so it is obviously Link's perspective.

You kinda outted yourself, man. There's all sorts of weird shit in Japanese. It's not the journal saying it wants to see it anyway, just that "you" want to see it, because "you" are Link. It's like any journal in some WRPG describing your feelings during that quest when you got horny around the barmaid.

>Zelda, the character with the most voiced dialogue perpetually sounds like she was on the verge of tears
>turns into a banshee when she cries
>everybody else sounding generic as fuck and completely forgettable
>good
No

>everybody else sounding generic as fuck and completely forgettable

Hey, Revali was good. But Zelda's VA was a huge mistake. I understand that she put on a phony British accent during casting, but why did no one, at no time ever say "Hey, the guy we got to play her father doesn't speak in a British accent. They should probably match."? Or even just say "That's an awful accent. Stop it."

I don't know that guy or the sentence he's referring to.
But any respectable dictionary like the 広辞苑 or the 大辞林 lists two meanings for 自分.

The first is jibun used as reflexive pronoun, (me) myself, (you) yourself, (he) himself.
The second meaning is jibun used as a first-person pronoun, jibun=I which is I guess what that guy was referring to? Brock in the pokemon anime also uses this very often.
In addition to this, in the Kansai region, jibun is also used as an explicit second-person pronoun, in other words jibun=you

And there's nothing weird about この/その...
It's just like こちら is a first-person pronoun and そちら is a second-person pronoun

>being this mad

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That was the jap VA. English was also awful, but at least it had some semblance of character.

>That was the jap VA.
>British accent

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Do we know what the German version is like? IIRC they alway used the Japanes as a basis.

I'm quite aware of the meanings of 自分. I'm also aware that it's not much used as a personal pronoun. Not to say that it isn't used, you just won't see a guy tell his friend 「自分は熱いだよ...」. Alright, normally you wouldn't even hear a person use a personal pronounce, they'd just say 「熱いだよ...」, but work with me here.

I admit I didn't know about Brock using it. I don't think he does in the games, but it's been forever since I've played them. Does he have any other unusual speech patterns? Because a character normally doesn't use it all the time and speak normally otherwise from my experience.

I know この and その aren't weird, I was just saying that when you translate them, sometimes you'd translate この as "that" or something. I can't think of a good example right now, but I've seen it often enough. Like, in English you might say "That reason" in part of a conversation about a subject understood by both people, but it might be この理由 in Japanese. They just don't always fit if you aren't thinking in Japanese.

the English translation still tells you what link's feelings are. he wants to save her as quick as he can to finally ease her burden. just because it's in second person and not first person doesn't mean it's some other character and not link who wants to save her. the player can ignore that and mess around for 60 hours before saving her if he wants, but link wants to do it immediately.

I was talking about the jap voice acting, not the english one. Though I agree with you about the english voice acting.

たい is also a conjugation to express, from the speaker's perspective, their desire for something. But you would not use たい to describe someone else's aspirations, you'd have to use ~たがっています for that.

Not Links, the player's. English version is shit.

Don't talk to me.

I disagree with the choice to give Link an inner dialogue, but changing it in localization is even worse.

Japanese is weird. I have a native friend who said he just assumed it was third person, but some people make good points like . Their language even confuses themselves at times due to being so vague.

Yeah, but what about
>伝説の退魔の剣 マスターソードを手に入れた
>心なしか 剣自身も喜んでいるような気がする…

>ゼルダ姫は今もなお ハイラル城で厄災を抑えるため闘っている…
>自分が必ず来てくれると信じて…!

>今の力で 彼女を助けることが出来るだろうか…

Unless I'm missing something, 自分が必ず来てくれると信じて seems kind of an odd thing to say about yourself.

So what's conclusion, weebs? Does Link talk in the first person in the Japanese version or not?

Most tenses and stuff is found in the emphasis of certain words, not pronouns or context. Japanese is a very tone based language. So it works better spoken than written. Something even Japanese authors admit, often using different "tricks" to point out certain words need to be emphasized.

Doesn't look like it. I've been reading through some of the journal entries just to see if maybe I made a mistake, but stuff like

>回生の祠に向かい
>最初の端末にシーカーストーンを戻そうう

just doesn't sound like first person. You don't say 向かい when you say you're headed in a direction, you use it when you tell someone to head in a direction.

from what you shown in the quest log Link sounds like your average hero you see in every fantasy anime where the hero is about justice and shit. Nothing really new here.

english Va didnt have an actual brit. They used trans atlantic one.

>People actually believe this horseshit

lmao

Wow that red part in english is the opposite of the japanese

As you can see from this thread, they're so desperate to hate NoA that they'll ignore explanations that that's one thing they didn't fuck up. I mean, there's enough real reasons to dislike them, I don't see why you need to find fake reasons to hate them as well.

Because EOP Nintendo fans are subhuman and don't matter.

It's not weird aside from the fact that the phrasing is a little theatric, for lack of a better word. That phrase you posted is almost certainly in first person and the one from the image earlier is as well (that's how I would interpret it from reading just those passages on their own anyway. Source: I speak Japanese fluently and have done plenty of scanlation work over the years (Vexed Scans)

Yeah it's really weird. I've seen the scene in Japanese and just can't see how they could have possibly screwed it up. It's a line that could've been changed at some point in Japanese before it went gold, but it wasn't reflected in the English version, or it could've been an intentional change for some reason. Or... a spectacular goof.

>(Vexed Scans)

Not to toot your own horn or anything.

You wouldn't hear anybody say that, because it's not a grammatical sentence. An adjective on its own already forms a predicate, so you can't add だ. You can add です to make it polite, though.
Also, you can search for sentences like "私は熱いんだ" or "僕は熱いんだ", and you wouldn't find any results either. Because using a pronoun is completely superfluous in this example.

On its own, there's nothing wrong with that sentence. It can be first person, if the speaker talks like that.
But you're right, the whole thing in context kinda reads like second-person to me. Like said, comparing it to something like narration text in adventure games makes sense to me

English isn't my native language, but I'll try...
>You got the Mastersword, the legendary blade that banishes evil
>Somehow, it almost feels as if the sword, too, is delighted...
>Princess Zelda is as of yet still fighting in hyrule castle to contain the calamity...
>Believing that your coming is certain...!
>With your strength right now, could it be possible for you to save her...?

>and have done plenty of scanlation work

Eh, not a good metric. I have as well and have been working professionally for years, but that honestly doesn't mean much. I think I'm pretty decent, but that's it. Even I think that the journal shit is weird. There are some parts that seem sort of like first person, and some that seem third. Overall I think it's not first.

It was just to give a little proof that I can actually speak Japanese and that I'm not just making stuff up.

It seems like people are ignoring that doesn't just change the perspective, it also removes the last line completely.

>getting this many gullible replies
Have an extra (You) from me.

That's par for the course for localizations, so it's not that surprising.

Because the intent is folded into the previous line instead of being redundant.

Yeah I dunno, I've never played the game so I've got zero context but the two passages I mentioned sounded like first-person to me after a quick casual reading.

The intent is kind of ruined. In the (claimed) Japanese translation, Link sounds like he's full on obsessing over Zelda with a mental dialogue. In the English translation, it's not even implied, since some invisible third party is telling you (the player, not Link) something.

So conclusion is Link talks in first person?

>Du hast die 13 Orte aufgesucht, an die dich Erinnerungen mit Prinzessin Zelda verbinden.
>Zelda hat kein leichtes Leben gehabt...
>Du solltest sie so schnell wie möglich retten, damit diese Sorgen der Vergangenheit angehören.
You have searched out the 13 places you're connected to by memories with princess zelda
Zelda's life wasn't an easy one...
You should rescue her as fast as possible, so these worries may belong to the past.

>Du hast das legendäre Master-Schwert erhalten. Es scheint sich zu freuen, wieder in deinem Besitz zu sein...
>Prinzessin Zelda kämpft weiterhin in Schloss Hyrule gegen die Verheerung. Sie vertraut fest darauf, dass du ihr zu Hilfe kommst!
>Ob deine Kraft nun ausreicht, sie zu retten?
You've obtained the legendary Master Sword. It seems to be glad to be in your possession again...
Princess Zelda continues to fight in Hyrule castle against the Calamity. She firmly believes, that you will come to her aid!
Will your strength now suffice to rescue her?

No he doesn't. You're projecting your interpretation to suit a narrative.

So German confirms it's meant to be read in second person.

Not really, "I want to see her smile again" is very different from "to finally ease that burden".

As long as we don't know if their basis is Japanese or English, not at all.

And it definitely sounds like their basis is the English as it's almost 1:1 the same, including the shitty last sentence.

Well, it's supposed to be the same thing.
Once you ease her burden, she'll be able to smile again.
This is localization, not translation.

Yeah, so it's a good thing that's not desperate language and both English and German convey the actual meaning of that phrase in context. Her mood improves by easing her burden.

Having played it, I'm pretty sure it's translated from Japanese. A lot of characters also keep their original name like Kass = Kashiwa

>Even if it's just a moment sooner, (I) want to save her as quickly as possible
>(I) want to see her smile again, with these eyes (of my own).
If this translation is to be believed, it's Link going full creep on Zelda. And I'm not projecting anything, as I hate Zelda in BotW.

Except all three mean essentially the same thing, and the English and German are not remotely 1:1.
This is why you don't take literal translations of prose seriously. That's not how it's meant to come across.

A localization should still try to carry over the same meaning even if it has to reword certain things to make it flow better.
We're getting into mental gymnastics territory now.
I'm not the guy arguing that Link is being "creepy" or whatever, but in any context "want to see her smile" and "ease her burden" carry different meanings. The former is a lot more personal.

Not really.

I should also add that the former is active/positive and the latter is passive/negative.

Is that all you can say?
You could at least argue that "want to see her smile" is actually an incorrect translation and back up your claim with evidence, but you're not doing that. Most of this thread was focused on the perspective of the localization, not the content.

You're attributing emotional meaning because it's a phrase that has emotional meaning in English and you're assuming it must have that weight in any language that uses a similar construction while denying that easing someone's burden is a positive act that will make them happy.

... you're telling me that quest log was supposed to have personality in it... fuckin NoA man.

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It's not about meaning.
Do you know the difference between positive and negative rights? It's like that. There's a difference between doing something and having something happen to you.

>You've visited all 13 places of memories and recovered your memories of Princess Zelda.
>In your memories, she was always desperate, giving it her all...
>You want to save her as quickly as possible to see her smile yet once again.

It's not about emotional* meaning.

Because they realized, unlike the devs, that giving Link a personality is an awful western push and should be removed as much as possible.

彼女の笑顔もう一度この目で見たい
That phrasing is a fairly personal, it’s a standard “hero” one-liner shows a strong and sincere desire to make someone happy. It’s also undeniably first-person for the record.

It's entirely about meaning. That is how localization of storytelling has always worked everywhere in the world.
I don't think you even know what you're claiming with that second part. Magically it's passive and negative that you're saving her in English or German? What exactly do you think it's telling Japanese players to do? They are all direct exhortations for Link to go save the princess to make her happy. It's really not unambiguous language unless someone is wilfully refusing to understand English or German.

Wrong. It's second-person.
It's undeniably not third-person though, because it's not using 見たがる

In other words, it's a generic cliche. Not telling us anything we don't know.

The problem is that it's a single line. Everything else is ambiguous at best, which makes me think that this line is a mistake, there's some deeper phrasing we're not getting because we're not nips, or that the journal just randomly changes perspective which doesn't make sense.

*ambiguous, rather. They're all clear.

It's second person all the way.
Just like in any other language ersion of BotW, an omniscient narrator narrates your quest.

I don’t think you can find a single person who speaks Japanese who would agree that この目で見たい is second person. It’s literally referring to the speaker’s own eyes. You might have an argument if it had some form of と〜 after it, but nobody would read that line by itself and think it’s anything but first person.

>He actually likes shitty "tell don't show" story telling

BotW Link is awful

So what you're telling me is that you don't know the difference between a character doing something and a character having something done to them.
"I want to see her smile again, with these eyes" isn't just expressing Link's desire, but also depicting Zelda performing an action (smiling). Whereas "Go and save her as quickly as you can to finally ease that burden" does not depict Zelda performing an action. The focus shifts between languages from Zelda to her "burden" (at least that's what the image claims, that you have not directly disputed).

I'm waiting for you to argue that these little details don't matter.

You are missing the forest for a tree, and doing mental gymnastics on anything that come across on any level personal without explaining how the phrases are the same other than with "believe me, I know stuff.". Most can tell that the words "to finally ease that burden" and "I want to see her smile again" are different which you assert mean near the same thing. What I don't get is you defending a part of Nintendo that hasn't be great at what they do since the first animal crossing. Also, a second person writing style with a character telling jokes is stupid from the get go.

Russian translation of BOTW has correctly translated those journal entries
Get fucked

Did you reply to the wrong person or something?
I was correcting my own post if that wasn't obvious.

Why is Japanese so full of words that can change based on context? English is not innocent in this but Japanese characters that do this are such bullshit.

Ruskies translated it as first person? Alright, pack it up boys. That confirms it's 2nd person.

The only reason you're mad about this shit is because you're retarded and you don't realise how common it is in English, because you already know all the peculiarities of the language.

Because in real life, you usually have conversations, you don't just have an isolated sentence.
And each conversation has a context it's happening in.
You just don't need to state everything explicitely, because you just know

Yeah, the post came out as too hostile. While I do think I ignore it when it happens in english because I know the language, looking at kanji for shits and giggles fucks with my head. I should get around to actually learning japanese.

>all these seething cope replies

>Zelda... had a hard life.

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Whoops. I read the post as a reply to your origin post but rereading it I seem to have misread it.

This thread is awful and you should all kill yourselves.