Main appeal of series is going fast

this is such an unbelievably dumb analogy i don't even know where to start

The gotta go fast marketing hurt the series more than it helped it

more like

>play racing game
>point of racing games is to drive fast
>there are section on the track where you have to brake

bad game design 2bh don't these developers watch youtube?!?

And the thing is, you do, just l2roll. See that slope going down, that the level designer beating you over the head that you should roll down.

another shit analogy since you are still spending most of the race going fast

try one more time

Not really, F1 top speed is around 400 km/h but most GPs average below 250 km/h. You speed a lot the time breaking and turning rather than going fast.

Roll you fucking idiots, Just fuckin roll!

If you know the level/track well, you will spend most of the time going fast because you have good understanding of the track design and how to preserve your momentum.

If you don't know the level/track well, or don't know how to control momentum well, you're punished for it.

In all honesty, the Sonic series is a bit of a design mess.

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>Changes the game based around speed
>Complains about that now

The chao garden has races that reward going fastest. What are you talking about?

You're pretty retarded.
In racing games you're not punished for going fast.

umm das artficial difficult sweat

>play racing game
>point of racing games is to drive fast
>there are section on the track where you have to brake
Yeah? And it's one of the best kart racers of all time.

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>He doesn't just spindash everywhere
I've seen people game over on obstacles that can be blitzed through and forgotten by just hitting down once you're going fast enough.

Sonic is so fractured between over half a dozen playstyles that the fans will never be truly satisfied. A good classic game means they want a good modern game, but where the fuck do you take modern when not only do you have like 4 different "eras" of game style, but even sub-styles such as Unleashed vs Colors in design? I liked pretty much every game but Lost World, even if I hated Forces' level design and how half-assed a game it was, but i'd be upset if they just shat out yet another Boost game to follow that up.

Sonic's in this volatile phase of "what the FUCK do we do with him", and there's no way to satisfy a fanbase splintered into itty bitty pieces.

>Main appeal of series is going fast

Only zoomers think this.

...

l2instashield

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Failing that, the moment you recover from knockback just spindash past. You're invincible to the ball that just slapped your ass for the next two seconds.

So what's the main appeal of the series?

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Not the fucking Pyramid?

It doesn't punish you for going fast it actively rewards it
It punishes you for being shit a video games and having the reaction time of a slug

>The speed is the reward
Maybe they shouldn't have advertised Sonic as "Fastest thing alive" then if they didn't want people to complain.

Japan never did. Also, nobody did complain, Sonic did extremely well in the western territories, way better than in Japan.

But I went so fast I crashed into a wall that's clearly the games fault and not mine! I shouldn't have to slow down at certain parts of a track I should be able to just accelerate the whole time with no impedance.

>"you're not supposed to go fast the FIRST time, you're supposed to go fast AFTER already playing the game and then you gotta keep doing that over and over again to go faster"
autism

>main appeal of the series is fanservice
>remove fanservice
>series dies

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Mario was never marketed as "a game where you jump" lmao, it's not even half comparable to Sonic's speed autism

Literally why is this game so fucking good, Yea Forums?

3D Sonic was a mistake. They should’ve never shoved him in 3D, period.

You can still go fast the first time if you use your speed judiciously. You will occasionally have to since even basic progress is often gated by momentum. Being very good requires multiple playthroughs yes, but that's true for any game. Yuji Naka just consciously chose to emphasize it more than most other games.

Agree with all that but you're an idiot if you think Colours rewards player knowledge of level design. It's barely better than a Mario Maker level.

Then that means you didn’t care about the game that much to begin with. I wonder how many people would even care about Smash if it ended up being Dragon King: The Fighting Game.

"Fastest Thing Alive" was only ever a line in a shitty cartoon back in the day. Current day Sonic Team and their social media accounts are fucking retards.

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If they do revisit the All Stars franchise, I wouldn't mind them having it be a different genre than racing again. Like another tennis game for example. That would help compensate for not having a third All Stars Racing, especially if TSR becomes the standard

I did, but i also cared about sega fanservice.
Locking yourself into one franchise only was a franchise killing move, especially after transformed.

Well, there’s nothing saying they can’t do anything with the All Stars series, people forget there was a Tennis game with the Sega characters. TSR is its own thing compared to Sega All-stars.

This. SEGA Superstars as a whole tackled different genres before the studio that makes them became the racing game branch, so I can definitely see them retiring racing in favor of doing something else for the next game.

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To add to that there was also Sega Superstars that works with the eye-toy on the PS2, which I think most people forget about as well.

Fanservice or not, Transformed is still a better game.

This is something only literally sub-70 IQ zoomers think. The game does not “punish you” for going fast. Going fast is inherently more difficult than going slow. Going fast is your reward for playing well.

I wouldn’t even say that considering the focus is different. They seem to share the same core, but they have entirely different aims. I enjoy Transformed, but I haven’t gotten my hands on TSR yet to say much of anything about it.

The camera is too close and too in the middle then. A game shouldn't rely on repeats.

Why does every fucking hate trying to gain skill at video games now? Fucking stop playing games if you cannot get over fucking up on your first time through.

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But I don't want to "roll" fast, I want to RUN fast.
How do classicfags not get this?

He was literally called "Jumpman" at the beginning.

As someone who's logged many hours into TSR, yes it isn't as good as Transformed, but it's basically just that game without transformations, with the options to play solo which is like the previous games, or as a team where the new mechanics get to shine. And with 8 of the Sonic stages from the first game remade for the Transformed engine.

oh look a modernigger making this thread again.
back to /sthg/ cucks.

English nigger
Who said trail and error was artificial difficulty, IGN?

>>point of racing games is to drive fast
False retard. You RACE, you cannot race without challegers.

The best comparison of OP's retardation is actually Sonic Lost World
>Sonic = fast
>Lost World is the slowest mainline game in the series

It's a platformer, not a QTE game. There are going to be parts where you can't go fast

Do you like having went from almost 40 characters to barely 15, tracks having "acts" instead of being unique, wisps and Sonic only characters selected to be in at random?

But Lost World doesn't punish you for going fast, it outright disables the ability to do so at all.

Drink bleach and shoot yourself in the mouth, you fucking failed abortion.

I never gave a damn about any of the Sega characters in All Star and Transformed since Sega's IPs outside of Sonic and NiGHTS are honestly kinda dull and uninteresting. I just wish TSR had chosen more Sonic characters to add in the game than the ones we got.

>yes it isn't as good as Transformed
>but it's basically just that game without transformations, with the options to play solo which is like the previous games, or as a team where the new mechanics get to shine. And with 8 of the Sonic stages from the first game remade for the Transformed engine.
So basically like I assumed? The core game is the same as that one, it just uses an entirely different gimmick than what Transformed used. Although, the amount of reused stages sounds disappointing.

>Fastest thing alive
Hang yourself filthy SaTam nigger. You're just like the Gotta Catch Em All Landwhales. Just kill all Americans ffs, they are filled with idiots like this one.

How do you win a race by now going faster than your opponents?

It's indicative of the ADHD riddled zoomer generation, underage faggots have no patience and crave instant validation.

If it isn't Sonic 1
>Roll
>Then Jump
>Then run fast
GG no re. You roll to avoid damage, and just jump to run agian. You blame classicfags, yet Advance 1-3 does the same fucking thing. Hell CD lets you run fast without rolling ala the Peelout. Just stop being shit at games niglet zoomer.

>from almost 40 characters to 15
I don't like the roster hit at all, no. I barely see anyone actually defend the weak roster. At the very least I like or tolerate a majority of the cast that did get in, but it leaves a lot to be desired, and if I recall correctly the base roster of Transformed was about 20 something characters before DLC.
>tracks having "acts" instead of being unique
This is a similar thing to how ththe first All Stars Racing did many of the stages and it's a very Sonic esque thing to do. Plus there's still visual variety in many of the stages, like the Rooftop Run, Sandopolis, and ice stages.
>wisps and Sonic characters only
Again helps give the game a Sonic identity, and it doesn't seem as random as the items from Transformed.
Yeah, pretty much. My only gripe is they didn't go all the way and just have every All Stars Racing Sonic stage return and mix some of them in with new stages, that would have been much better.

>But Lost World doesn't punish you for going fast,
>Implying when everytime you parkour its always above pits that you always fall into because of the shitty controls.

Non argument, zoomer.

How do you win a race by now going faster than your opponents?
>He so underaged he never heard of the story of the Tortoise verses the Hare.

This

You are wrong.

About what exactly?

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting

I think the best course of action would’ve been to make a proper sequel to Sonic Riders. The fact that TSR was being developed by the same team that made the Sega All-Stars Racing game and upon first reveal it really hammered home it was going to share that game’s core thus having people think it would be a “sequel” or “spiritual successor” to that had hurt it. The Riders series already had a primarily Sonic identity, but Sega is too retarded to realize the reason Free Riders did so terribly was for hamfisting the Kinect on it as the main gimmick. It sucks Riders is shelved, it had potential.

The Kinect killed Rides, and that will always be a tragedy.

I don't understand what's so difficult about designing a normal ass Mario/BK/Spyro 3D platformer where your character just happens to move fast. That was the design philosophy behind the original. You had loops and pipes and shit, but you could just as easily incorporate ramps and such into a 3D game, half-pipes you use to build up momentum and reach higher areas, like in Metroid Prime. Make Sonic's default movement speed as fast as the charging in Spyro or the Talon Trot in Banjo, make the levels large enough to accommodate this without being barren wastelands, fuck man it doesn't sound hard.

Honestly, I think that after 3 games of cars only, it would be neat to have a new Sonic racer that was a hybrid of Riders and the All Stars Racing games using the Transformed engine, but with everyone in hovercars and with more vehicle variety in general. Just call it Super Sonic Racing, polish the team stuff and add back in transformations as well as a story mode and the Babylon Rogues, as well as a better roster as a whole, and there you go.

It doesn't sound hard, but A.) all the talented designers at Sonic Team are long gone because Sega can't stop sniffing their own farts and relocating everyone onto fucking Olympics games, and B.) Sonic Team under Iizuka want to "innovate" and keep taking steps forwards, and probably feel that a more freeform design would be stepping back to Adventure. Which is hilarious given Iizuka not minding the idea of remaking the first.

And to be honest, the idea of Sonic with a run button isn't inherently terrible, but i'd personally make it more like a gas pedal of acceleration. Keep him a moderate pace by default, push on the gas to really let him go, hold off of it to slow down and control yourself better. It'd be a better solution than holding the Boost button down for binary speed boosts.

They're not really innovating so much as they're throwing shit at the wall and holding onto what sticks with a death grip. They've totally lost their way. Boost was liked, wisps were liked, nostalgia retreads were liked so by Forces you have a spastic frankenstein of all these elements

Man don't remind me about Wisps. A one-game gimmick with the story focused on them turned into a recurring gimmick that never adds anything but shortcutting level design. Yacker gets loose cameos, the reason they're still around got half-assed in a dead mobile game, and Sega/Iizuka (i'm still not entirely sure who to blame here) wants to vice grip them as the equivalent to Mario's power-ups in his 3D games for some fucking reason.

This. Like, one of the most retarded things I heard on this board about "what can't be done in a 3D Sonic games" which include being open world, have unscripted loops, the idea Sonic can gain massive air time, etc, when nearly everything Sonic Team has already done as either not worked, had poor execution with a sound idea (like the Homing Attack), or something that is a good thing, but gets dropped in favor of a new gimmick to market for the next mainline game. Like, Lost World has parkour??? How badass is that Sonic fan base!? But couldn't we already do that in Sonic Adventure 2? Adventure what now?

It's retarded. Look at AHiT. There was no need for that game to have controls so focused and asure of itself, for a game starring a little girl that uses cute "curse" words. But the game is far more solid and well thought out than nearly all 3D Sonic games to this day. Sure it might not be as pretty as Unleashed, but it has better better 3D gameplay than the Werehog that's for sure. You can make this work, all you have to do is TRY. They haven't tried since SA2 and it shows. You could say Unleashed was the breaking point, but then it lost half of its focus on being part GoW clone. The best thing Sonic devs should do with Sonic going forward is do what it takes to just make doing anything in the game by the control of the PLAYER, not the scripted gameplay itself, fun. I want to run though loops. I don't care if you "could" skip them, you could always do this with most enemies in game, so why should that stop you? Pander to every action being done by the player, not via some Orca section or a Star Wars cutscene rippoff.

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The splintered fanbase theory is meme bullshit. Everyone would like a new Sonic game if it was actually good. Every game franchise in the fucking universe went through evolutions and iterations in game design. While Sonic is indeed unique in some ways, the lack of satisfaction in the series current direction has almost nothing to do with different playstyles and everything to do with the fact that they keep hiring rookies and people with atrocious track records do design the most foundational parts of each game, as well as repeatedly making unbelievably idiotic decisions for seemingly no reason other than that all the people who are actually good at making games left the franchise. (See for some reason not including the Chaotix in TSR despite having the literal perfect opportunity to do so)
The vast, VAST majority of the fanbase has extremely similar opinions about what games sucked, what games were good, and generally similar tastes in likes and dislikes for each game. Yes there is arguing and disagreement, but that is not even close to being the main culprit. Stop letting autists on v and internet funnymen on Youtube meme you into thinking otherwise. This dumb fucking meme is nothing but a red herring.
Sonic isn't failing because the fanbase is divided among itself, its failing because the SOUL was ripped out of the franchise after Black Knight (with occasional exceptions), both aesthetically and in terms of mechanical design philosophy. The ONLY hope 3D Sonic has of proper modern success is if hardcore fans of the same vein as Christian Whitehead but for the Adventure games somehow get hired. Or if some veterans come back to SEGA via the Olympic games.
I mean for fucks sake, wasn't the guy in charge of level architecture for Sonic Unleashed hired to work on the open world design of BOTW?

It doesn't rely on repeats anymore than any other trial and error platformer.
it's so oxymoronic the way people complain MORE about Sonic punishing mistakes when punishment is like a slap on the wrist compared to any other platformer.
Fuck up in Mario? Die.
Fuck up in Sonic? Lose rings

You do realize that the Tortoise was faster to it's destination than the Hare, right? He just won because the Hare stopped mid-race.

Then pay attention and stop thinking you can turn your brain off.

>it. Everyone would like a new Sonic game if it was actually good
Except the fact people (Adventards) called Mania a shitty romhack. So fuck you, you're wrong.

You took 30 mins to make this post? Really nigga?

>Sonic's in this volatile phase of "what the FUCK do we do with him", and there's no way to satisfy a fanbase splintered into itty bitty pieces.
People STILL say this as if Mania doesn't exist

Speed is a tool AND a reward. You have to USE your speed correctly to get the most out of it.

Mania does exist, and the devs have their own company Evening Star, named after a song from Chaotix, to work on future games and probably Sonic games even. Sega would be stupid to not capitalize on this - but it's Sega, one of the consistently dumbest publishers in Japan. Forces demonstrated that Sonic Team isn't getting the talent, budget, or effort they need (the game had like a year of actual dev time for fuck's sake), and all Sega did was say "we're satisfied with Forces", push out a DLC for Mania and then have been dead silent besides saying there's a new main game in the works. Mania will definitely have an influence to come, it's the best piece of Sonic in a decade, but you can almost hear the execs shuffling around with their thumbs up their asses going "gee what should we do next?"

You took ~90 minutes to reply to with , why are splitting hair now? Just answer the question.

No fuck you, fucktard, you're wrong. Every Adventuretard I know thinks Mania's great. Again, you have fucking stupidly believed that dumb erafag wars on Yea Forums somehow amounts to the opinions of the fanbase at large. These guys make up at best 1% of current Sonic gans who liked Adventure.
I'll repeat this one more fucking time to get it through your thick nigger skull. Some faggot on the internet getting mad that Mania wasn't exactly what they wanted DOES NOT = new Sonic game will be disliked by anywhere close to a significant number of fans if that game was ACTUALLY FUCKING GOOD.
Dumb fucking nigger. Stop spreading mind pollution you faggot fuck. Splintered fanbase is a meme that needs to fucking die, eternally.

Being good at video games is no longer a sought out skill anymore since it is inefficient use of time unless you're competing in Esports. Compared the mindset back in the 80s/90s back when everyone was trying to get the high score or be the best arcade fighter player to today where games must be played ironically for social cred and if you take it too seriously without money involved you're deemed a tryhard loser.

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>You took ~90 minutes t
No, because I just join'd the thread with that post. Unless you're someone else speaking for some other user, you're the retarded one here either way.

There is no question, the original subnopsus of the fable was "SLOW and steedy, wins the race". The fucking point was don't rush to the goal, take your time to do it right you underaged retarded zoomer. The rabbit lost because he rushed to the point he ran out of energy, or in some stories, got too cocky and fell sleep thinking he'd still win by the time he woke up.

Tl;dr: Kill yourself.

mania sucks

You know a company's edgy 90's cool attitude fucked up when there are still people to this day that think Mobius is still a thing. I dunno how many times in the past couple years i've heard people ask about that.

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Honestly a smash style fighting all star game would sell a lot better than a racing one

The point of it is that it's a trap. It's to prevent you from just holding Right

>Every Adventuretard I know thinks Mania's great.
Prove it, I'd really love to see this.
>Again, you have fucking stupidly believed that dumb erafag wars on Yea Forums somehow amounts to the opinions of the fanbase at large.
So Twitter/Tumblr and Youtube doesn't count now, right?

Just fuck off, I loved Mania but people still rather have SA3, which I don't. Stop shitposting.

They must have been doing something right, considering Sonic basically dominated the western world in the '90s and has comparatively never been more than a sidegrade franchise in Japan.

>Tortoise reached the goal first
>He-he wasn't faster, he just got there faster

Neck yourself.
If he ran out of energy, he stopped.
If the got cocky and went to sleep, he stopped.

Either way, the tortoise reached the goal first, therefore he got there faster. At the end of the race, what was the average speed of the Tortoise vs the Hare?

Why do people have autistic shit fits about taking damage in Sonic games? Every single 2D game is designed in such a way that if you learn the level layout and have good reaction times then you can flawlessly speed through a level. The games don't suck, YOU DO. Fucking get over yourself.

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Casualization killed gaming. Prove me wrong.

Nigga do you know what a Tortoise is? It's not a fast animal retard, it's a Turtle.

You're right.
You can actively track talent leaving Sonic Team if you look at the credits of games like Unleashed/Generations, the Olympic games, then recent Mario games.

See, the issue with that is, if they do it, it will immediately be seen as a poor man’s Smash. A big company already tried their hand at it, the roster was garbage, the method of K.O.’ing people was retarded, it’s servers are now currently shut down, and it’s constantly shunned for it not holding up despite it’s potential. Hell, there are people who call fucking Sonic Battle a Smash clone because I guess characters fighting one another in an entirely 3D space arena battle style is Smash now for some fucking reason.

Not that user but I have a friend who likely grew up in the Adventure era (despite his favorite being 3&K) and wants the style to return in some way like a remake or new game, and he also thought Mania was great

Still had a better average speed than the Hare.

Answer the question retard, who got to the goal faster?

You say that, but the first All Stars Racing (and even the successors) are still seen as budget Mario Kart clones with Sonic and SEGA characters despite the major differences the successors have. Personally I would love Sumo Digital to do a SEGA Superstars Brawl of sorts based on Sonic Battle or Sonic the Fighters, it could be great if it had the budget behind it

>Not that user but I have a friend who likely grew up in the Adventure era
Ok, there's one. And me since I like classics, SA2, and Unleashed. Now tell me the millions of other people are just shitposting on Yea Forums that they hated Mania and secretly like it when they never grew up on the classic games.

>go at full speed
>hit wall
>get last place
WOOOOOOOOOOW shit game design, why am i punished for going fast???!

If "faster" = 3 hours to you niggers, then why (going back to the original topic) is slowing down in a Sonic game bad again? If it doesn't matter HOW fast you are to reach the goal, what's the point in the argument again?

Fact: 2D Sonic games would be better with Sonic CD's panning camera.

The irony in this is how people call Mario Kart better games to Sonic when it literally has rubber band AI in it plus RNG items that can, and does, do exactly this every time you race, even against other human racers.

I'm sure there are some that are just shitposting. I myself bought Mania 3 times and it's one of my favorites, and my first game was Colors DS

I primarily see people call the first All-stars game a Mario Kart clone. When Transformed came that phrasing was nearly nonexistent, it solidified its own identity as racer by Transformed. Although, I’d rather them stay away from the “fighting” or “arena battle” genre while Smash is still on people’s minds, they should definitely steer clear of the “platform-fighter” style. Maybe they could try some other genre in sports like dodge ball, basketball, or hockey.

Fact: real good players don't need this to play 2D Sonic games.

Are you retarded or lack reading comprehension? My point was exactly that just because a racing game forces you to break, it isn't bad design. You are supposed to go drive the fastest you can but you still have to maneuver around the track, which sometimes forces you to reliquish your top speed.

>Colors
damn, you were so close for a perfect response...

Nah, fuck that. Give me Sega Smash Bros and GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

Sonic doesn't allow you to speedrun as much as Mario does. Compare Green Hill Zone Act 1 to World 1-1. GHZ is less linear, but harder to zoom through at top speed, despite that being Sonic's defining trait since Sonic 2 at least.

agreed. i wish the camera change wasn't so jarring though

I agree, it's just been in vogue to shit on Sonic's level design. Sonic is much easier and forgiving than say something like the old Castlevania games, but hardly anyone makes a YouTube video about a stray medusa head they didn't see coming.

Yes, some. Not all. It's critically wrong to claim there isn't a fractor when millions of people still prefer the game they want over a game that's good. It's also wrong of me to claim all Adventurefags hate Mania, but it's still many fans of Adventure that do, and would rather have SA3 over any and all 2D SOnic games, rather or not it even plays like the classics or has Green Hill in it (despite SA2 having GH in it as well).

Just saying. To boldly claim the Sonic fanbase isn't split is grossly undermining the Archie fan base, the Boost era fanbase, the Boom fan base (yes they exist), at people that like the characters in Sonic but never played the games because IGN/Arin said Sonic was never good.

I wouldn't mind that either. Tons of possibilities if the tennis game is anything to go off of.
And actually, I have seen people on here who obviously haven't played Transformed say that it's a Mario Kart knockoff and actively dislike the Sumo racers for having Sonic in a car, but I'm guessing they're just bitter about Riders or something

false

>Prove it
Well, I'm an Adventurefag for one. So are some of my closest friends, and any other random people my age who still like vidya. And we all thought Mania was great too. Not gonna contactfag you so idk what you want. I guess you could go to /sthg/, there are plenty of people who reflect what I'm saying there (but also plenty of insufferable spergs)
>Twitter/Tumblr
the former is utter cancer and encourages the most contrarian attentionwhores to congregate and flame each other, so I don't know what the flying fuck you were expecting but again, these brain dead faggots don't represent general reaction to Sonic games at large. The latter is full of extremely niche spergs and fujos, what the fuck?
>YouTube
Literally proves you wrong. Most major Sonic reviewers are classicfag boomers who nonetheless think Adventure games are also great. Johnny, Clement, the BrainScratch autists, whoever the fuck. They're basically all similar. As for comments sections, people write any old shite to get replies, most of them STILL agree that both Adventure stuff and Mania is great. What the flying fuck are you talking about? Nigh unanimous opinion on Youtube, regardless of era, is that Mania is fucking amazing and blows all other post 2011 Sonic games out of the water.
While there are certainly groups of people who prefer certain games in the series over others, there is almost entirely uniform overlap in opinion of what's good and what isn't.
To me it seems more like you went to places where you knew the most cancerous retards would be, and got mad when they dunked on Mania because it's not perfect.
In conclusion, choke on my cock.

I do feel like there's a split as well. It's why it's in SEGA's best interest to revitalize the 3D games in some way while also promising more Classic games will come in the future, so everyone wins.

You was not the person I was even taking to then dumbass. Or actually, wasn't the original point of the argument.

If this is you ; then my point was towards
>point of racing games is to drive fast
Which is gave a counterargument which you backpadled with "it doesn't matter HOW fast you go in a racing game, just that you win in the end" which isn't what you stated saying "point of racing games is to drive fast"

Just take the L and stop. This shit has gotten out of hand just because you want to win in an argument about kids video games. Not even on topic to the OP either.

>implying everyone gives a fuck about Mania

I wish I lived in your world, but I don't. If what I seen with my own two eyes isn't real, then I really shouldn't even care what you claim otherwise as law. Whatever mate, I don't even care. Just know that if SA3 happened and it ends up just being Forces 2 yet people praise it for the name alone, just remember what you said here when that day comes, if it does.

>And actually, I have seen people on here
>on here
To be fair, Yea Forums is shitposting heaven, I mean people flaunt around review scores for validation and believe “Nintendo Bonus” is a thing.
>actively dislike the Sumo racers for having Sonic in a car, but I'm guessing they're just bitter about Riders or something
I think it’s those to factors, and the fact that the other Sega characters are gone as well as people thought TSR was something trying to “follow-up” from that game when it’s trying to do something all its own. But I definitely agree with Sega using their other IPs in other genres. I’d personally like to see some form of compilation series much like the first Sega Superstars on PS2.

Genuine question, are you autistic? That was a sarcastic statement, you retard. Look at the context, look how I'm slightly adjusting the analogy to OP's.

In that same post I'm defending the game design by showing that you have a way to defend yourself of upcoming hazards.

Look at literally the first reply
and my reply
Neck yourself, so you don't contaminate the gene pool.

Going fast is a meme
Sonic was always about momentum-based platforming, not your rail-line physics disasters

You already have the Olympics games for sports. I want a fighter. Fuck anyone saying its a budget clone. They say that for every game that isn't boost.

the blast processing is too much

Can a boostfag explain why they like the mechanic so much? The games feel like 90% scripted Hold X to Fast (Which was always the worst part of the adventure games) and 10% 2d sections that don't make use of the 3D plane at all.

It's literally HD Temple Run

Thrill ride, it's benefits consistency and allows players who know the maps to easily brease through it, without a lot of the edges that the adventure games had.

Not saying it's "da best" mechanic, but it's fun.

I guess that's true, I should take this site with a grain of salt more.

I guaran-fucking-tee you that if they make a game called Sonic Adventure 3 and it's just Forces, it will be universally hated and considered another nail in Sonic's coffin. What have you got to be so miserable about anyway? A small cottage industry has fucking popped up on Youtube which revolves around shitting on Adventure games, while Mania is basically the most universally beloved and nigh impossible to critique Sonic game in almost a full decade. Are you living in bizarro land?

>Main appeal of series is going fast
>Most beloved titles actively punishes the player for going fast
And thats a good thing, going too fast is bad if you both cum too fast and can't hear the girl moaning.

Attached: too fast.png (476x374, 255K)

So it's just low hanging fruit classic Sonic gameplay, but in 3D?
>Without hazards, you get top speed
>Without skill, you get top speed instantly
>Without open level design, you can repeat the same speedrun without issue

I think I understand.

>it will be universally hated and considered another nail in Sonic's coffin.
So 06? When will "another nail" actually kill the series like it rightfully deserve?

It's literally just a buzzword to me desu.

This but actually just Fighters Megamix 2.

Attached: Fighters Megamix 2 Roster.png (624x330, 462K)

Not really, it's just a more focused design, you still have hazards, you still need to have fast reaction, you still need to understand and know the level design.

There is nothing wrong with being linear.

All the adventure* games needed were a faster maximum movement speed on Sonic and slightly better level design.
*Sonic/SA1 Tails/ Shadow stages

>you still have hazards, you still need to have fast reaction, you still need to understand and know the level design.
Where was this in Forces?
Or are we defining Boost gameplay from a near 15 year old game?

Yes, there is a reason Forces is hated by boost fags. In 2012 would you define the classic gameplay by Sonic 4 or Sonic 3?

>It's literally just a buzzword to me
I agree with you there lol. I should've put "another nail in Sonic's coffin" in quotation marks, I meant that thats the narrative that IGN tier reviewers and Egoraptor style ecelebs will spin.
I don't want the series to die though, so I'm glad it won't kek

Actually, Advancefags did so with Advance 1-3. Funnily, Adventurefags did the same thing with 06 as well.

Most other franchises don't do this though, which I find odd. Like, Mariofags don't call out SMW for not being SMB. Or how NSMB in itself isn't really SMB1, but SMB3

Because those Mario games aren't bad.
Forces is bad. 06 is bad.

Mostly you just see debates between the 3D Mario games because they're so radically different, but with 2D Mario you're getting a consistent idea of mechanics and design even if power-ups or side abilities vary. 2D Mario only ever evolved in a sense. Meanwhile 2D Sonic alone has had Classic, Advance 3, and Rush as just base examples, not getting into things like Rivals, and those share the same core ideas but all play radically differently in approach and mechanical design.

Because never radically changed, Sega/Sonic Team keep trying to reinvent Sonic.

Forces is the result of them trying to reinvent Sonic with Lost World, failing and then using that same engine as the basis for a boost game.

Most of the engine stuff that enable Sonic Generations to exist, like the infinite streaming, doesn't exist in Lost World's engine, which also has a hard limit of stuff you can place in a level.

This is why levels are short, why acceleration feels weird (you run and after some time you enter Lost World's fast mode) and why the levels are mostly empty.

Don't forget that it's also why Forces inexplicably has 8 movement directions.

Yep, the boost was also taken from something from LW, I just don't remember what. The parkour system is still there too I think.

The spindash. It was basically the boost but reskinned

There was this thing that said Lost World had to be made the way it did because the level streaming from Generations couldn't work on the Wii U, which people claimed Lost World was made from Generations and gutted into Lost World, ala Sonic Heroes from SA2. But people say this isn't the case but never proven themselves otherwise.

Since it's a definite fact game companies have issues keeping old builds of their games safe to the point of losing them (see Kingdom Hearts 1, Sonic Genesis, etc), it's safe to assume they lost the code to Generation since they didn't just use that to make Forces in the first place (when Generations could have from Unleashed when Colors was made).

Attached: Forces Lost Level Size.jpg (1047x968, 392K)

Maybe it's that, or maybe it's the fact that people like the head level designer for Forces were one of the new additions in Lost World, so they literally just went "fuck it" and stuck with what they already knew.

Forces is more like ordering a turkey sandwich and getting bread and Mayo

Its biggest problem was that it was the sequel to generations that people have been waiting for for 6 years yet it was worse

youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
man why did nobody tell me that the dark brotherhood soundtrack slaps

Platforming, colorful anthromorphic characters.

>main appeal of series is shooting mans
>games actively punish the player for shooting mans for too long

Attached: 1542974165143.png (1280x720, 1.13M)

This. Sonic being fast is his skill, not his sole identity. He's not a shallow Flash ripoff.

Yes

this is why sonic unleashed and sonic generations are the best sanics. you can actually go fast for the first time in the series without endlessly ramming into walls or shitty ass hills that slow you down or retarded spiked/projectile shooting enemies that stop you or pillars that crush you or water that slows you down.

>you can actually go fast for the first time in the series without endlessly ramming into walls or shitty ass hills
t.never played Unleashed
Unleashedfags would kill you for saying this shit.

ive s-ranked the entire game and its dlc on 360 and again on xbox one. i think im qualified to say that and its one of the only sonics ive ever replayed.

>ive s-ranked the entire game and its dlc on 360 and again on xbox one.
Ok, tell me again how this proves you did this without deaths or this was on your first try. Because unless you can prove this, I can post and claim I do the same through any 90s Sonic game without issue.

youtu.be/MKRRvk-htYQ
Ah yes, the perfect Sonic game

of course there was deaths, bad ranks, slow times the first few times. what sanic unleashed and generations manage to do though is always give you speed. you dont have to platform through garbage like marble gardens or labyrinth for that 5 seconds of speed in the level. you always at almost any time have the ability to go fast which is just how sonic should be. everything after that should come from learning the level. i want to learn and replay holoska and speed highway because i got a good taste of them the first time. i dont want to learn and replay death egg and sandopolis because these are shovelware levels where youre just plodding through nonsensical objects and layouts all so you can get those few seconds of speed. its shite m8, all the 2d sonic is

How come Mario and Zelda have made the transition to 3d so well, while Sonic can only be good with a retro 2d style?

Wheres a modern take on Sonic?

Nigger kill yourself
Basically "it's ok when 3D does it". Fuck zoomers. I hate all of them.

To me it's just a crappy racing game. It's barely even a platformer anymore. Clearly you prefer that, but it sure as hell isn't sonic anymore

Adventure was good for the time, further refining of the formula would eventually lead to a timeless game. Unfortunatley, they decided to dump all that work and start over again with Heroes.

>Fast character
>3D space
I firmly believe Sonic should’ve stayed 2D while the Adventure games being the only time it’s done.

Why is there so much hate for Boost, jesus christ. I'm not gonna proclaim "it's the way 3D Sonic should be" because to be honest outside of Generations none of the games have really tried to use 3D with Boost simultaneously all that well, but jesus christ you'd think Boost shot someone's dog.

>Exploring, platforming and speed.

Well damn, Sonic failed in all those categories. Also the whole appeal of Sonic is going fast you stupid zoomer it's all he was about back in the 90s with his stupid blast processing. This was way before Sonic X

lol yikes

i do prefer that. if team sonic racing was as good as transformed then it would be the best sonic. thats another great one, sonic racing transformed. but its not really a sonic game, just a kart racer with some sonic characters and levels. always wished unleashed or generations had a multiplayer race mode

Generations is the most consistently fun 3D Sonic game to me by far. The only thing the Adventure games ever delivered well is spectacle, and Generations does a better job of it. I don't really want another boost game, though. Generations had room for improvement but not so much that I think it needs a sequel.

>Game is rewarding because its challenging
I DONT GET IT GUYS

Well, it did "shoot" Adventurefags from getting SA3. But for real, Boost panders to casuslizes, aka, Japaneses market. They are so shit at platformers it's no wonder the only one's they bother with is Mario or Kirby. Otherwise, all they play is mobile shit or RPGs.

It's objective that the classic era Sonic is just too hard for post Wii era gamers. They just can't play it, and prefer the easier to grasp Boost era. Ever considered the people that hard it are the people that can beat the damn boost games without trying? It's mainly why Forces tanked so hard, you can beat in without dying on your first run. Old time gamers don't like this if you haven't realize. They want challenging gameplay.

>yikes
Kill yourself

>casuslizes
This heat is killing me, Causals.

kill yourself unloved untouched boomer. you and your shitty lil sanic.

Legit, what kind of level design do people who think Sonic is unfair want?

Attached: 406AE73E-B909-4954-B4A5-65928A344B98.png (410x381, 58K)

Same to you nigger. I hope you realize the next "era" of Sonicfans will call you out on the same little shit I get from you underaged shits. You'll get your due, then you'll understand.

it feels good to be a classichad. ecelebs can seethe and cry as much as they want.

Going fast is a Boostshit meme.

Sonic was a fast-paced platformer, but still a platformer. Boostshit is a running game with QTEs.

A flat line with a few enemies to jump on/over.

>But for real, Boost panders to casuslizes, aka, Japaneses market.
Boost doesn't casualize anything. I've seen people have a much harder time with the Boost games, especially Unleashed, than the Classics. I don't know where people get this argument that Boost suddenly makes the games easier when they're of a completely different design mentality than the 3D games prior, and it says a lot that some of the "harder" games tend to be the jankier and more broken ones.

It's not like the Adventure games have much platforming either. I think Lost World was in some ways a step in the right direction on that front even if it is a mostly crap game. I'd like to see a good 3D Sonic game that emphasizes platforming and not just obstacle avoidance and spectacle.

>Boost doesn't casualize anything.
It does
If you can't beat classic but can in boost, but boomers can beat both, it's casualized.

And where's your alleged smoking gun of proof that people can beat Boost but not Classic? Modern journalists sucking ass at Mania?

your mistake is thinking im a sonic fan to begin with. ive played the main genesis ones, adventure 2, riders, 06, unleashed, colors, generations. i need to try adventure 1 and heroes at some point. and they range from bad to memorable. the only good ones are unleashed and generations (and transformed if we count that). anything from the 90s is automatico garbo though. i unironically had more fun with sonic 06 than sonic 1/2/3.

after forces, boom, lost worlds, and now team shitty racing, the series seems dead for real this time. id be surprised if outside of the fan sites, if anyone even cares about sonic anymore. sega sure as shit doesnt lol

>Main appeal of Dead Cells is its a metroidvaina rougelite
>get punished for playing it like a metroidvaina

What about 06 was better than the Classics in your eyes? I'm curious as I'm never going to play that game and love the Classics

>Why is there so much hate for Boost
Cause it turns Sonic into a racing game and it comes prepackaged with bad stories and lame jokes.

Unleashed didn't have a bad story, just a plain one. Chip and the food fetish of the devs was kinda weird but I wouldn't say it's comparable to the shit that followed.

the soundtrack is by far the best in the series and probably the best video game soundtrack ive ever heard. the glitches arent as invasive as most people meme on about. and this isnt autism with dozens of replays. this was first time playing. i like the more somber and bleak tone/atmosphere of the game and it bleeds into some of the levels and all of the hubs. level design is expansive with lots of opportunities for shortcuts or experimenting. has that really cool "we dont know how to transition to next gen but were trying" vibe that a lot of early 2005-2007 360/ps3 games have (present in the needlessly big hubs, wanting all these quests, an expansive story, a new physics engine, new hd assets and models etc).

theres a lot of room for improvement but i dont think it was really that bad. the most annoying thing are the load times and some of the other characters are blatantly unfinished. like some of the most unfinished things on the whole disc. knuckles, amy, omega, tails. i would love to see it remastered

im pretty sure it was a meme at first but hatters ate it up and now everybody thinks sonic sucks because lol fast.

I doubt it'll be remastered but I agree that the soundtrack is great. Maybe people are overhating it but SEGA shouldn't have released it unfinished to begin with

>a few retards on v think mania is shit so that means the whole Sonic fanbase thinks mania is shit!
You are the most unintelligent person I've seen on this shitty site

SEGA hoodwinked themselves, really. An agreement to make the game a launch title for the 360 when the game had been designed for the PS3 up to that point, on top of Yuji Naka quitting the company with his own team and the dev team being split up twice for a port to Wii (turned Secret Rings), tore the game apart on the inside-out. SEGA mismanaged it horribly, but they were fucked no matter what they did.

The intended experience of Sonic is to replay the game over and over again. The game was inspired by the feeling of speedrunning Mario over and over again until you can land every jump pixel perfect - and making a game that exemplifies and rewards that feeling.

That's why the timer counts up instead of down.

>Mobius isn't a thing
It's not?

It hasn't been since Sonic Adventure had to awkwardly re-establish continuity as being on Earth. Eggman was always Eggman in Japan, so the Adventure localization had them start calling him that, and eventually Japan caved and said "okay yeah his name's Ivo Robotnik but he calls himself Eggman now". Though with Iizuka and Sega trying to establish some awkward two worlds bullshit with no context now, who knows what the fuck anymore

He like's Shonen and likes FF.

Attached: 1548814680373.webm (1280x360, 3M)

>Sonic Adventure had to awkwardly re-establish continuity as being on Earth.
But doesn't games like Sonic Forces, Colors and Lost World take place on Mobius. There are no humans are human made structures in any of those games

Off yourself retard Yea Forums isn't your boogeymen.

There is no Mobius, there never was in the game continuity. "Sonic's World" is all that's known about the two worlds garbage, in a throwaway line in Lost World, and at best only exists as an excuse for not dealing with G.U.N. and old continuity stuff. Also there were plenty of normal-looking buildings and a whole bombed city in Forces. And Colors literally had Eggman make all those bases and structures, so technically "human-made" applies if you want me to be a nitpicking spaz.

>reading things that aren't there
shit you are so fucking stupid it makes no sense

Mobius Isn't even a canon world in Japan's Sonic canon. They never created that word, and no, there was no split between the "two worlds" of Sonic until as of Forces. Sonic goes to different parts of the same planet, you didn't go back to Soleanna in Unleashed did you? You didn't go back to Station Square or San Francisco Zone, did you? FFS you HAD a Green Hill in SA2 for crying out loud.

As far as anyone is concerned, Unleashed proves every game took place on earth, it just you visit the locations you visit and the story just focus on those locations. There has never be a game that show two worlds to claim otherwise. "Worlds" in this context means continents.

Kill yourself nigger.

you first

Kill yourself.

christ, you're fucking pathetic

Kill yourself.

>repeating the same words over and over again
you must be broken

Kill yourself.

>took longer to reply
what? past your bedtime?

>running into something you can easily hear off screen and is coming up
Okay retard

CD is a legit terrible game