Should there be a ledgegrab limit in Melee? Armada thinks so

>What would be the point? No one is ledge stalling. Hbox is the only one who gets even close, and he doesn't do it much these days
He literally just did it to win a tournament.

If you watch the video here Armada actually explains why HBox doesn't do it more often, and why it's extremely important to implement. He says he's 100% not letting go this time.

Who the fuck cares what he thinks anyway, he doesnt even play the game anymore
im tired of e-celebs commentators TOs and old fucks deciding rules for people who actually play the game

>We don't play Ultimate because it is mechanically inferior to melee
>Melee has such huge mechanical problems that entire legitimate strategies must be banned
The absolute state of the melee community

All of this shit is in the guise of making Hbox "easier to beat." Leffen mask this by saying it's important because ledge stalling makes Melee less spectator friendly. And views are incredibly important to Melee.

I can't believe Leffen said this shit. Ppl need to get over the fact that Melee won't always be hype. Lame play will always be a thing.

Ledge grabs should be limited to the number of times that player showered that week.

The reason why they're crying about this stuff now is because for years melee has had no real competition. Brawl was a joke, 4 was too defensive and slow. Ultimate is a fantastic competitive game. Especially when it hits evo it's gonna get a lot of attention. The big melee personalities are afraid their game is gonna start bleeding viewers.

Weird how a sequel made 17 or so years later has some qol improvements despite being very mechanically different.

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If you make a comment saying that Firefox ledgestall is worse than Puff ledgestall, it literally physically triggers him. He's already responded to like 2 comments saying that, which pisses him off.

By that logic, why have 4 stocks? Why have the current stagelist the way it is? Why can't Hyrule Temple be legal, then Fox can land 1 laser and stall for the rest of the match?

Melee is doing fine imo. It's just the Mango fans are butthurt he ain't winning. With Armada retiring, he no longer gatekeeps Tournies like crazy. Hbox is fairly beatable. A lot of ppl thought Hbox would be untouchable, but IBDW, Zain, and Wizzy say otherwise.

Just ban Jigglypuff. It's better to ban a character than to make increasingly complex bans that require a referee to enforce.

single handedly getting a character banned in a video game is one of my wildest dreams

Then go play games that can't be patched.

Yes
But only in flamboyantly extreme situations
If Hbox is planking ledge two minutes into the game with a stock lead he can fuck off with that.
If he does it with only a minute left with percent lead I wouldn't hold it against him.

Stop playing a dead game

Everyone comment on this video saying firefox stall is worse than puff stall:

youtube.com/watch?v=ri8qU0tHeLg

Melee players are pathetic, holy shit

no one cares about melee anymore, the game was killed

Attached: hungrybox.webm (346x192, 2.98M)

He's a good fighting game player. Why doesn't he just move to Ultimate?

You sound upset. Melee beating Ultimate in tournament viewership easily.

I don't really care. This only comes up because once every year there is some controversial set involving ledge camping. Everyone will forget about it and go back to normal in a few weeks.

All the viewers in the world aren't going to make you any less pathetic, bitch

Because Ultimate is boring to play

Here's the thing, people are saying this will only effect Hbox, but that's kind of the point.
What if we get to a point where EVERY SINGLE GF ends with Hbox stalling with ledge grabs? Then Melee's basically as good as dead, because it kills the interest from viewers. People already get bored when they see Jigglypuff in grands.

It's like Melee except good though

He plays both
puff just sucks in ultimate

t. salty meleefag

Unironically, if ledgestalling were ever to become a common issue and not just an occasional Hbox game, the best remedy would be to allow non-tournament stage selection.
IE if you ledgestall me for 7 minutes on Battlefield, I'm taking you to the Ice Climbers stage.

I'm sorry dude but it's true
Ultimate's fundamentals are much better than 4 and Brawl, but it's still nowhere near as fun to play as Melee
Even more boring to watch as well

Imagine being so mad that a guy is better than you using a mediocre character that you have to pull rules out of your ass to prevent him from winning

Shower

i unironically find hbox camping more fun and interesting to watch than any random ultimate set

imagine being such a slimy smelly boy that you only play melee

Remember how ledge stalling wasnt a problem in the 15 or so years hbox played melee and people love m2k for his marth at the ledge?

Use soap

nobody cares about that washep up cuck

what is this from lmao

>Most input lag out of any smash game
>Shitty online
>Buffer
>Good

UNIST beating out Melee for Evo 2019

People need to just get the fuck over Melee already

Attached: 1434362129088.jpg (480x360, 22K)

No, because nobody wants Melee or Smelee fags at tournaments anymore.

Armada mad as fuck on stream with people saying Fox's firefox stall is just as bad as Puff.

>Ppl need to get over the fact that Melee won't always be hype. Lame play will always be a thing.
This is the issue. Like I can understand why certain stages are banned. Stuff like pokefloats makes the match about 1 strategy that once you are behind there is a struggle to really deal with. If every other match in Melee was following the exact same pattern for a timeout win there would be an issue. Even Hbox isn't quite that, the matches are lame in different ways. But even considering that, doing so is a step towards banning melee into the game we imagine it to be.

And this would be a step even further. We can't deal with this guy and think melee should be all rushdown so just ban his boring ass strategies until we get 20XX. At some point you have to accept lame shit will happen if you play an old ass game. Glitches that break the game, completely beatable characters or the like are fair game. If the ultimate form of Melee is puff that is something we have to accept, and if that really is such a bad thing people need to stop making excuses and prove that using her is like using ST Akuma.

Then go watch Top 16, Top 32, or Top 48. Most casuals needs to stop watching only Top 8 for fuck sake.

Is it? I havent played smellee in 20 years

Lel this would actually be based

That doesn't change that most people DO only care about Top 8. I'm just saying that a majority of the viewerbase might get sick of watching every major end the same way.

Ultimate is unironically more defensive than Sm4sh

Ultra based

>Ultimate is a fantastic competitive game
lmao do people actually think this?
I don't even think top player think this

Why do people still play Melee? Is it because they worship Mango?

Because they can't in2 anything other than that dumb ass kids game they wasted all their time on when they were young.
I mean, think about it: Instead of playing an ACTUAL fighting game they chose the mario party version of a fighter and then started stripping away anything that could be construed as "random" to try and make it as "competitive" as they could.

Sunk-cost fallacy. Their "skill" doesn't carry over into any other fighting game, so they cling to this for as long as possible.

Did anyone want them in the first place? Smash is pretty autistic, but Melee is condensed autism.

Day of the Soap soon?

See this clip for why Armada is upset:

clips.twitch.tv/DifferentProtectiveArtichokeDendiFace

>bitch ass swedecucks still mad about the meme character
Didn't that pussy Armada retire because he couldn't beat Hbox? Who gives a fuck what that failure thinks.

>meme character
Top 3 in the game easily. You clearly dont even know what you're talking about so why even post?

All he says there is they should be allowed to cause fuck puff. That isn't much of an explanation. Arbitrary rules exist in smash, but you have to look at what they are.

Time, stock etc is determined in game, it is a mode of play like choosing capture the flag over death match. Stage picks are more arbitrary, but the vast majority are just this stage ruins competitive play for everyone. That is getting the game to a functional level of play. The next point along from this is where you start saying what is allowed in gameplay. Like in MvC2 you have the Gambit glitch, where by glitching the character off screen the match becomes unplayable. Arbitrary, but everyone can see that would have to be banned. It is the next stage along where I start to dislike smash rules, where you kind of allow stuff but not really. It is on the players or TOs to sit there and make sure you don't do something too much cause they don't like that style of play. Not in game settings, not making the game functional competitively, not a game breaking bug but we don't like too much of this. If that is done it needs a better rule than this guy plays lame.

I see it like this. No one would be debating a community nerf if captain falcon was winning everything and there were always at least 2 in top 8, There wouldn't be calls for nerfs, everyone would be memeing it up. Especially if the player was likeable. This is a case of people don't like the play style and the asshole behind the controller

Yeah theres NO way its because the game is extremely fun with a high skill ceiling. Fucking cope ult niggers.

Oh yeah because all those 2 players on Top 100 really make an argument for putting Puff in the top 3 spot. Just like Joker is a completely broken and OP character in Ultimate because of 1 player in top 50.

>people STILL obsessing over melee in 2019
Unironically have sex, Jesus Christ.

Attached: 4971181-yami_yugi___five_by_kingofgets.png (500x500, 99K)

>Unironically have sex
Is that an offer?

Puff is boring as fuck nobody likes to play her. Do you have an argument as to why she isnt top 3 instead of simply flaunting your ignorance?

How the fuck do you enforce a ledgegrab limit? Do you get a TO to watch every Hbox match?

>cause fuck puff
Thats not what he said did you even listen? Every rule change has been "arbitrary".

Endgame stats. Under "cliffhanger." Also slippi

Presumably it would be the kind of thing that in pools with nobodies anything goes, and if it does get called out it whoever is better friends with the TO is right. On stream set ups someone is usually around where it would get actually enforced. But you could imagine someone ruining a set as they thought Hbox did it too many times and called for a count.

Yeah, there's only like 2-3 players in the top 100 ranking. Do you want me to tell you how many Fox, Marth, Sheik, Falcon, Falco and IC players are in comparison?

And how does that prove that puff isnt top 3?

Did you?
>But as soon as you suggest one that could errrr nerf puff
He isn't pretending this is anything but a way to nerf the character, not because it is broken but cause we've got someone dominating with a style a lot dislike. The arbitrary stuff is just an excuse. I broke down how their are different levels of arbitrary and not every reason for an arbitrary rule is equal. "This stage introduces a high degree of randomness" and "I don't like playing against Falcon so ban him" are both arbitrary, I guess we should enforce both cause I mean we have so many arbitrary rules. Almost like arbitrary still needs good enough justification.

Imposing arbitrary limitations on tactics is a terrible idea.

>not because it is broken
That is the arguement though. So youre just stupid I guess?

But a ledge grab limit nerfs everybody at least a little bit.

Because if Mango or Leffen or SFAT retire today, you can still easily say that Fox is the best character of the game. You can't say the same about Puff if Hbox retires today, there's absolutely zero data or solid arguments to back that up.
This is simply a case of 1 particular player being too naturally good with 1 particular character. Armada made Peach look absolutely invincible but you never saw anyone saying she was a top 3 character right?

If you have to impose such arbitrary rules to fix the game then that proves the competitive aspect of Melee was always faulty and crappy. It would be more logical for them to ban Jigglypuff and the Ice Climbers, and even then I disagree with such bans.

Too fucking bad, the game is as it is. You shouldn't be allowed to just ban perfectly sensible tactics because you don't like them. That'd be like playing pokemon and saying tank/stall teams should be banned, or playing dark souls and saying heavy armor builds should be banned.

fuck 20xx

>That is the arguement though
But he never claimed that in the clip, I guess you didn't watch it. if puff is broken tier then prepare to ban or create similar nerfs for all the high tiers.

youtube.com/watch?v=ri8qU0tHeLg
learn his actually opinion then talk retard

If Puff was top 3 you would see far more people using her and either winning tournaments or at least placing top 8 with her, which is not the case. The only consistently good Puff player is Hungrybox, which proves that he just so happens to be damn good with this one character.

Learn to play Tekken bitch.

He's still playing using the same game and same mechanics as everyone else. There's nothing magical about hbox. If other players want to get good with jigglypuff, they absolutely can. Don't confuse people's unwillingness to adopt a similar style of play to hbox as hbox being some freak outlier who is the only one who can possibly make jiggs viable.

The fact that hbox can do it means anyone can do it.

Peach doesnt have any of the strengths of puff though. No rest or crazy good air moves and doesnt have 5 fucking jumps. They arent even comparable.
Nope people play melee because its fun and playing puff isnt fun not even hbox likes playing her thats his words not mine.

>random mango jabs
what did this man do to you

No.

Wizzrobe was camping top platform. Hungrybox responded in kind.
Neither are against the rules and neither made interaction impossible.
The grand finals was excellent, basically all the way through. Only newfags to the game and scene will cry about this.

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What does that have to do with anything you fucking sperg?

dae not igglybuff??????

Wizzy didnt camp top plat til after.
>newfags
ironic

Learn to play an actual fighting game.

Oh so youre a pedantic autist or shitposter. kek

You really think this is being pushed cause people think it would be a general improvement to the game, and not just cause of one character?

He doesn't say it is broken, just really strong but even admits every character can beat it even if they have to take a big risk. He even has to admit the comparisons he makes are to strats that were stronger. But worst than that he admits characters like Sheik outright destroy the tactic. We banning really strong stuff and bad match ups now? Ban or nerf all the top tiers then. Your shitty muh arbitrary excuse fell apart so much you aren't even trying to defend it.

Go watch the set again retard.
In fact, go watch all the sets they had prior to this in 2019.
Stop talking out of your ass.

>Nope people play melee because its fun
Not when you go to tournaments and play competitively. People in those cases obviously play to win, and in order to win you have to be optimal and exploit anything that will help you win.
>playing puff isnt fun not even hbox likes playing her thats his words not mine
Citation needed.

>even admits every character can beat it
No he literally doesnt. He says some can. Jesus man are you even capable of rational though?

Why should i listen to the opinion of a washed, whiney player who ran away? M2K couldn't beat him for many, many years and wha did he do? He adapted and improved his game instead of run away and/or complain.

>No he literally doesnt.
Man you really don't watch the videos you link. Outright said every character can get in and do damage even though it is risky, but you also got to ignore the part about characters who outright stop the tactic working. Sorry baby boy, learn the match up or counter pick.

How the fuck are you supposed to win on your off week ?

Because he's carried by his character and doesn't win in Ultimate.

I never said anything about the sets before this one and no he didnt. First set is fd no top plat. Then he starts planking him on fod. Youre just wrong.
> washed, whiney player who ran away?
hes the best melee player to ever live what are you talking about?
>a lot of characters cant really do much
1:19 kys

Your whole argument falls apart when we a have dozen IC players who picked the character for the easy tactics and wins.

Man, as much as you idiots shit on Ultimate at least the game doesn't need to have arbitrary shit added to fix the metagame.

Just wait until people get more sick of God Leo and his Joker.

Fair enough but thats 0.1% of the playerbase. Im still correct.
>washed, whiney player who ran away?
hes the best melee player to ever live what are you talking about?

>1:19
>Can't really do much
Are you actually retarded? Do you know the difference between much and anything? Even in his exaggerated drivel he has to admit they can get in and do damage. Counter pick or adapt. You would probably shit your pants watching some match ups in other games.

Yeah but Ultimate has patches

People still mad about Hbox or something?

So what? You're comparing the one-trick-pony of wobbling to "hurr durr let's find roundabout ways of banning defensive play so that the meta has to conform to my preconceived notion of 20XX"

What sort of arbitrary change could you even apply to "nerf" Leo's Joker that can be actually justified? People are just going to beg and screech as loudly as they can so Nintendo catches notice and nerfs Joker.
Patches on certain peculiarities pertaining to each character, nothing that affects overlying game mechanics like ledge grabbing limits.

>doesnt need
Its shit to start with no changes could even fix it at this point.

>Are you actually retarded?
No but you clearly are. How is getting a couple of percent "beating planking"?

>What sort of arbitrary change could you even apply to "nerf" Leo's Joker that can be actually justified?
I don't know, they were close to banning Bayo in Smash 4 (i think they actually did in some places). The only reason they didn't was because Ultimate was released and they didn't care about 4 anymore.

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Are Smash players the biggest cucks in existence?

They cling onto a series of games where the developers have gone out of their way to make them stop playing it competitively. Sakurai could've easily made Melee 2.0 and 3.0 but instead prefers to actively shit on everyone who tried to play his games competitively.

And yet Smash-fags still throw their money at Nintendo and slop up the casual garbage that Nintendo releases and attempt to build their lives around it.

Attached: question frog.png (231x218, 8K)

>preconceived notion of 20XX
20XX is a literal meme and youre a newfag for thinking anyone actually believes that shit.

>nobody was around to see how a LGL affected Brawl
All other stupid shit with that game aside, all a LGL does is cause the player in question to keep a mental count and curb their stalling. If they only needed to for, say, one stock, then it's totally doable. Has anyone even counted the regrabs as they are now?

My take is the same it's been for all of these years: make TOs enforce stalling clauses. If something is seen as so good that it's actually stalling, warn the player and then take action. I mean fuck, the one time they had the balls to do so was the whole Bayo shitshow. It's pretty clear when someone is going out of their way to not even play the game.

>Then he starts planking him on fod.
He does it only twice. Wizzrobe sat on top platform once. Nothing irksome about this. We don't complain about hax dashes even though they're more invulnerable.

people who suck off sakurai are gay as fuck.

The usual. Nothing important though.

Hax dashes are hard as fuck dude planking as puff is something a 3 year old could do. If hbox hadnt planked he might not of won it definitely wasnt trivial.

Melee players are pathetic. This is like limiting the use of projectiles in SF.

oh wow, tell me more. I had no idea it's a meme.
It still undercuts the point that all that's going on is people are butthurt that high-level melee isn't just "hurr durr who's got the highest apm and tech skill" bullshit. Hbox's defensive play is just as valid as all that flashy shit, deal with it.

>planking
>high level melee
Yeah youre a newfag just stop posting.

>make TOs enforce stalling clauses
That can be played around though as well. Say a TO will act after 1 minute of stalling, you stall for 50 seconds, go in for a few seconds and then make your way back out. You could leave it up to each TO to decide, but that sort of rule gets into a whole spirit of the game argument which will never end well.

>Hax dashes are hard as fuck dude planking as puff is something a 3 year old could do.
It is more difficult but much harder to hit someone who won't mess up versus hitting a Jigglypuff floating on and off the ledge, which is so easy to catch Fox's down-tilt nearly invalidates the strategy.
>If hbox hadnt planked he might not of won it definitely wasnt trivial.
The Dreamland match? There, it's as much Wizzrobe's fault if not more for his losing his stocks the way he did.

You've already missed the point by putting a specific timer on it. It should be subjective by design and it would stop people trying to push the limits and skirt the spirit of the rule. That's why you have a clear warning. Once again, it's like nobody was around when stalling was prevalent in Brawl and how such rules essentially change nothing. It's very clear the difference between "yo I am doing this because you are pressuring me" and "Oh, you're moving back to let me on but nah imma chill for 3 minutes here because I have 3% less"

If the player is using something drastic enough that people are already calling for rulechanges around the issue, then it's clearly strong enough to be considered in the above context to be stalling.

>which is so easy to catch
No it really isnt. If it was this wouldnt even need to be a conversation.
>The Dreamland match?
Which wouldnt have happened if not for planking are you trying to help my argument?

Why is it that people who don't like melee can't argue?
It's always either
>appeal to novelty
Or
>haha shower xD

Because they have no arguments. Just seething brawl 3 players and shitposters.

>It should be subjective by design
And you missed my point as I addressed that. If you just let each TO decide that can end up a near random decision where they personally judge what they see as the spirit of the game. A player could get away with 2 minutes or be punished for 30 seconds. It is just how they felt about the match, which could line up with no other person's interpretation of the match. There would almost certainly be accusations of favouritism or TO's not enforcing the rule enough. This is why subjective rules are generally avoided.

You'd still see players pushing the limit as well, if you know a TO will generally let you get away with a lot you'd push the boundary. The opposite would also be possible, if you knew a TO didn't like you playing defensive at all that creates a worry that any extended defensive play could be punished. Endless arguments would ensue.

because they're trying to get a rise; they either don't care at all (non-fans) or just dislike it on principle (Sakurai-drones)

N-NOOO! MELEE IS THE PERFECT GAME!

>and then it's up to the TO
That's. The. Point. It already is ultimately up to the TO, and by making it not so cut and dry you are going to 100% deter players from attempting this shit. Your point about TOs playing favoritism is moot because they already could be accused of doing so. Are you new to tournaments or something? TOs already don't DQ high level players for being late to matches or often times bungle calls for shit like pauses. It literally doesn't matter. Arguments do not matter either. If a TO is being total shit, players wouldn't attend their events. TOs have skin in the game to not pull stupid shit. You have three choices here and you're picking the worst one. You don't have to worry though, the community would never make a rational decision like this. They are going to split and some will enforce a LGL. You will still see it happening and there will be a bunch of drama over nothing.

>do nothing, game stays as is
Fine
>make it subjective to deter players from even attempting it
Fine
>make a hard in-game limit and force players who were already going to stall count and players who don't use it to actually stall but play on the edge a lot like Amsa also count
Doesn't solve the problem.

That would be like saying "I lose".

How can you be carried when you're the best player of that character and are the reason it got bumped up to top tier

Melee players may as well just play a modded version of the game with the amount of rules they make up. Why not just mod a "tournament edition" rom and all just play on that?

>you are going to 100% deter players from attempting this shit.
Just read my post to explain how that is not the case, you even suggested they just get a warning at first. So you just test for the slap on the wrist and then know what to play around. Making it subjective solves nothing and actually creates more issues than a hard limit. Unless you want to make it so they get penalised straight away, cause I'm sure people would love that at any point they could be randomly penalised from a subjective decision by a random TO.

>Your point about TOs playing favoritism is moot because they already could be accused of doing so
This doesn't help you in any way. This just increases the ways that happens and makes it more likely that it could be a problem. It is setting a house on fire and going well it was hot any way.

>If a TO is being total shit, players wouldn't attend their events
Wow so your rule is going to ruin events and create more drama in the community. Cause as we both know favouritism does already happen. You've just made it an even more glaring issue. Creating such an unclear rule doesn't help.

Dude should just take a shower and move onto the new game instead of desperately hanging onto old glory. Just git gud and move on. Begging for new meta in a game thats been 100% figured out for over a decade is just plain pathetic.

This is just embarrassing to witness. A bunch of streamers that don’t even compete that much complaining about Hbox. Just admit that melee is past it’s prime and is not sustainable without the “gods”. No one cares about it except for top 8s and even then it’s starting to be a bunch of literal whos now. I blame the commentators that have pushed this god narrative for so long. No one cares about melee now because there is no storylines to follow. Now it’s just “who can beat hbox” It’s pathetic. Move on.

cause nintendo

>Leffen and other bitches inventing rules just to nerf hungrychad

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>tfw I love playing traditional fighting games as well as melee
Play what's fun
Don't worry about what some incels have to say about your favorite game

youtu.be/DmOcY2WcRIw
Melee fans check this out.

Based fans fixing sakurai's game

>horizontal (CARDINAL DIRECTION) wavedash
fuck you
>but you don't get invincibility for regrabbing the ledge
you already don't
>DACUS
why the fuck would anyone want brawl tech
>airdashing
retarded as fuck. Every change shown before this improved offensive abilities but did nothing to help out defensive abilities like escaping combos, and then you implement the most broken combo extender imaginable. Do you want 64 combos again?

Virgin Smelees make us chad Ultimate bros laugh with their special snowflake bullshit.

Have sex

Meleebabies are the fucking worst. Instead of accepting their game isn't perfect and has reached it's limit, they seek to fucking inhibit the best players and their tactics just so they can feel good about wasting their life on a party game.

Just fucking play SF4 instead, christ almighty

Hungrybox did nothing wrong.

>and has reached it's limit
How? By whos standards? A fucking captain falcon player and a pikachu player just won majors. If anything melee is showing that it can evolve just as it has in the past.

fact: melee attracts the highest level of autism out of any video game

>picture of a disk and a word on the disk repeated 5 times
Excellent post

>Trying to prevent people from using game mechanics because some people are better at it than others

It's over dude.

Stalling for the sake of stalling should and is banned in many competitive games. If a fox player was doing it people would be just as mad (because fox can do it even better than puff) but they don't.

See you in 5 years when melee is alive and well and ult is forgotten for brawl 4.

>Stalling for the sake of stalling should and is banned in many competitive games.

Name one.

Enjoy your millionth Fox matchup, but now you're only allowed to wavedash twice a match.

How about a shine or laser limit for the furfags while we’re at it?

>still playing melee

yikes.

Holy fuck, Yea Forumstards don't know jackshit about competitive Smash. Shut the fuck up already, you ignoramuses.

would he be hungryJUST or JUSTbox?

Still waiting for a single example, it's been 10 minutes

>Just admit that melee is past it’s prime and is not sustainable without the “gods”
But the past few tournaments have been amazing now that people like Armada and M2K are out of the picture.
>Hbox having a much harder time overall, losing a lot of matchups even against non-fox players
>tons of talented new players making upsets, like IBDW vs Hbox
>Wizzy, Amsa, and Axe all getting amazing results with unorthodox characters

Smash is boring casual garbage.

While you guys are having a slapfight over which game is the better turd, the fgc is laughing at you as a whole.

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I understand Armada's been playing this game for decades as arguably the best player of all time, but a rule like that sounds like it'd be ridiculously janky and difficult to include unless you started using modded versions of the game where you can't grab the ledge more than a few times in a row, and even then, that sounds like a janky mechanic.

Like, what if someone grabs the ledge several times in a row just by sheer coincidence rather than an active stalling tactic? Are they just disqualified then and there?

You get banned if you beat Armada, simple as

Meleefags are unironically mentally challenged jesuschrist.

Am I the only one who preferred when all these training packs and optimization shit and character discord servers didn't exist, and people resorted to smashboards and just playing the game for getting gud? Everyone plays so perfectly now that it feels like it's just a matter of who's hands hurt less that day.

Having an abundance of knowledge is a good thing, at the end of teh day the only difference is people are sharing it.

Tekken discords are robust and popular, but there's still garbage players everywhere. Knowledge doesn't make someone good inherently, the same way counterpicking doesn't guarantee a win every single time.

Smash (melee at least) has a physical requirement with the execution, so someone can read literally all day but still be garbage.

Change your attitude.

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Hold the fuck up. Can someone explain to me why people are discussing this? Who was the one who started this controversy?

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Armada because he literally cannot handle losing a party game

did you read the OP at all? why are nin10yearolds so fucking dumb

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I dunno, it could be Armada agreeing to Leffen's bitching

why don't smash autists just play a real fighting game?

It hasn't been, though.

Cool lies.

I know change upsets you, but DACUS is one of the best things to come from Brawl and I welcome that with open arms.

Ultimate is more fun. Cope, seethe, etc. All those memes Meleefags use because they are too stupid to make real arguments.

Platform fighters in general have severe issues with passive play since most of the time you can never really put yourself "in the corner" through your own movement since everything is so open. The people who design these games really need to come up with a solution to these issues, not tournament organizers or players.

>he says as none of his meme "games" come close to Smash in terms of sales, popularity, love, quality, players, or viewers

Eat shit and die Smelee

I'll move to Ultimate when Yuzu gets netplay and I don't have to pay for Nintendo's shitty online that has an absurd amount of forced buffer applied to compensate for wifi shitters.