How goes the GSP climb, user? Are you in elite smash yet? What's giving you trouble?

>not playing melee
couldn't be me

>All these Jokers and Falcon bandwagoners getting rekt by my humble Samus

I'm at 5.025 we might find each other if we're in the same region.

>How do you play shotos in this game without wanting to kill yourself?
literally fucking months of failure
it pays off though

Feels good clapping jokers all dsy

i've been learning PT, they're kinda fun to play with but I suck with them.

Who do you guys wanna see buffed? I'm waiting for just a little bit of love for my boy

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Honestly I can't find one character in this game that I find I like enough to devote all my time to. I bounce around among lots of characters online every few games.

Ridley, Captain Falcon, Charizard, King K Rool

meant for

Ridley.
He's not bad but he could be way better.

What's the GSP needed to be Elite now? I haven't played this game in months and I'm scared.

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Got everyone into Elite and then promptly went to arenas. I only play while cycling anyways.
You need to play offline and I am going to guess you've acquired some terrible habits since YOLO strong moves and dodging crazy amounts are super good since latency makes them safer.

ive gotten up to 2 mil with mac but lately ive fallen down to ~800k GSP
being new in a game where the average player has the mentality of a child sucks

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>total roster gsp is at around 4.94M
>don't have a single character above it or in Elite
I just don't understand this game man.

About 4.9kk

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>Playing to get your number up
The smash community was always shit but this just makes it worse. Nobody plays to get better they just leave after game one if the opponent poses a threat of reducing their stupid number by any percent

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What's the optimal Simon flowchart?

The normal procession seems to be: Cross, Axe, Fire

However, lately I've been experimenting, and I'm wondering if truly it's Axe, Cross, Fire, so as to call out the immediate jump when they expect the cross off the start. The rock paper scissors of projectile spamming orders goes fairly deep I'm thinking. Even further when you mix in whipping their jumps to clear the cross.

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10 of the 20 or so characters i use regularly are at 4,800,000 or higher, with 2 of them floating between that and 4,600,000.

Have a few others around 4,700,000 but that was just fucking around.

By asking this question you are already doing it wrong.

>caring about elite smash
>not entering locals

The characters I play are:

>DK
>Ryu
>G&W
>K Rool
>Simon
>Incineroar
>Fox
>Ike
>Yoshi
>Mac
>Young Link

Recc me characters to pick up that are secretly also fun and why. I always feel restless and want to try someone new.

I got DK, Samus, Marth, and Rosalina into elite smash, then stopped because playing with items off is about as fun as inserting my dick into a meat grinder.
Now I just try to beat my classics high scores.

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>samus
>humble
Samus is just as bad as falcon

I'm not a tierwhore so I don't play as Dark Samus and Falcon is better than Samus I'm just good at neutral. Fuck you.

I got to elite, then crashed all the way to 3mil, then I watched this: youtube.com/watch?v=L35n2ttewMI and I'm climbing back up pretty easy. I thought I had innately horrible neutral but I was just fucking up a basic fundamental concept by being aggressive instead of just being ready to punish and avoid enemy aggression. I have no idea what to do against zoners or like, a wolf spamming blasters and it's still really obnoxious fighting heavies because you literally cannot fuck up once or you die.
I got her to 4.7k just spacing luma and spamming smash attacks whenever possible. I'm scared to try to bring her into elite though.

I used to play tons of matches if I was having fun even if I lost every time, but the system is inherently garbage. It will put you in lower quality matches for trying to squeeze out a higher one. Being able to fight the same person for a long time isn't worth having to smash attack K. Rools, Ganondorfs and slowly fucking SLOWLY chip away at nesses and links for hours to get back to where some people play the game.
I can't respect Samus players, they have some of the most fun aerial mobility in the game but they all play passive and flowcharty as fuck. Aggressive Samus is based.

she's almost playable. they just need to put the "canon" back into "glass canon"

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>I can't respect Samus players,

You offend me. Here is me

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Falcon and samus mains being faggots have nothing to do with tiers. You’re both faggots who think you’re based when in reality you act like faggots who self congratulate constantly (like you just did) and you play like faggots

Neck yourself pedo

I played a shit ton of games and won pretty much all of them when the game came out and my GSP has basically stayed at the top since. I don't even play ES anymore since I have people to play locally.

In neutral, I say Cross always, Axe sometimes, Fire never. Save fire for ledge trapping and the occasional (rare) mixup

>Full Charge shot through all your projectiles

I don't find spikes impressive; I just feel bad for the guy getting spiked but that's still really good and pretty much what I meant. Don't feel bad when people are disparaging Samus, they mean the ones that play like boomerang+upsmash links. The goodboi samus players should know who they are.

He was my main in brawl, they’re really fun. Still need to get him into elite though.

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F-tilt beats charge shot

he will be top 5 in a month, mark my words

5 mil as Little Mac.

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elite with Snake and Sonic

4.7 mil with Joker, 4.2 with Ryu

Took a break from playing Joker to try playing Ryu again after his buffs. Still a long ways to go, but not as bad as it used to be

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what are even toon link's problems ?

she's unironically playable, you just need to stop being a shitter and get more consistent at her kill setups

He commits really hard to his jumps and struggles to chase down people who put themselves in bad situations, so he more or less cannot clutch stocks. He isn't terrible

The shotos will never be top characters or receive good results because they require far more work to play them than the rest of the cast. There is unironically no reason whatsoever to play Ryu or Ken competitively because your margin of error is much wider than all other opponents.

There's absolutely no advantage in being the only characters in the game with an execution barrier if it's not giving you some immense reward, and it doesn't. Ryu and Ken require execution just to function as basic characters.

Basically being a downgrade from other links. Less range, less damage, less kill power and less options overall.

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all you need to be top tier is consistenly get top 8 at majors dummy, no one cares about casual shitters.

Don't mind me, still just running along waiting for that viability buff haha

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They have the potential to, I fully agree, but is right
If a top player that had a perfect understanding of neutral took the time to really learn Ken he could win majors but it's just unrealistic

>offline makes you good
no it doesn't, playing with actual humans is better than bots unless you meant offline local

The shotos will never be top characters or receive good results.

>breaks shield from one nair conversion
yeah ok, also shoto execution is no that bad
that'll only be because most top players are too scared to pick them up

K.Rool is like Onix from pokemon. A born jobber, he's there for new players to learn how the game works by finding a way to beat him. If he had an attack stat higher than a pidgey he would be overwhelming. Such is the life of a bicycle made entirely out of training wheels.

>when they legit nerfed a character that was already bottom tier

What hurt more, the MiiBrawler costume, or slamming the last nails into the real character's coffin and relegating him to being nothing but a meme pick that can't do anything more than wreckingball newfags who don't know his gimmickry yet?

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>struggles to chase down people
he's so fast though ?

>Characters in Elite, leave them on the trophy shelf, play them in arenas:
DK, Pacman, Yoshi, Bowser Jr, G&W

>Characters i play but CANT FUCKING BREAK INTO ELITE WITH:
Kirbs, Incineroar, Ryu, Greninja, Weegee

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Thinking of picking up Little Mac and learning the bob and weave gameplay. I like Punchout and boxing archetypes in fightanz in general, am I in for a fun time or is he really so bad it's not fun?

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my first day with Incineroar was fucking rough
started at like 4.5 or whatever and just lost straight down to like 500k
I managed to get him pretty deep into elite but man it was eye opening

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This man speaks the truth

prepare to get platform camped, a lot

You will suffer.

the transition to ultimate was not friendly to her. The 1v1 multiplier didn't help her much since her numbers were low, so multiplying them won't be a big increase, unlike other characters who got good boosts because their damage numbers were pretty good.
Sheik's biggest boon in Smash 4 was her combo game letting her damage output be above average. Nowadays in Ultimate, everyone can do some combos, so that means Sheik's aren't a huge advantage. And then on top of that, they made Sheik's move string into each other worse compared to 4. Once again, her damage becomes outclassed by everyone else.
i'm hoping her damage output is brought up to speed somehow, whether by messing with her damage numbers or by letting her combo better

He has the same air speed as Ridley. He's sluggish once he jumps and he's floaty. He has trouble chasing people. His run speed is fine, but he has not that great of options out of it. Why do you think Yink is better? It's 100% movement options because Yink can put out hitboxes in a lot more places much more quickly. There's more to speed than dash.

>get fucked by zoners and swordfaggots
>can't turn around whenever you want and end up not being able to consistently use your best aerial in back air
>garbage recovery
>bad movement options
>buffering combined with online latency constantly fucks up inputs

well at least my hadoukens are better and I can kill a little bit more consistently

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He's not fun because he is simple and relies a lot on just superarmoring through other characters. Basically it's in nobody's best interest to not camp you.

You should get on the Pac-Man hype, playing as him has a comfy feel while he whoops ass with retro pixelated attacks

You might find Bowser Jr fun as well, but thats really hit/miss with most anons around here. Look up a compilation or two, see if you like it.

Yeah but it's not like online they can switch to a better character to camp Mac with.

>Get to 4.8 million
>The matchmaking starts getting all fucking weird
>Started losing interest as a result
Not even in elite smash yet. The fucking insane amount of boring as fuck, time-stalling matches I encounter just isn't worth it. When 8 out of 10 matches are just fags stalling to get to sudden death or refusing to approach I just can't find a reason to keep playing. Is my region just shit? Am I playing at the wrong time of day? Are people always this fucking insufferable when playing smash online?

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Every character can do it to him unless you're on FD.

void and mr R think she's potentially top tier, her kit is generally great and she has everything, it's just the she doesn't get as rewarded as most.

>Lose 1 match
>Lose more GSP than winning 1 match would, have to win 2 to make up for it

It's obnoxiously frustrating, and this is coming from someone with 8 characters in Elite.

>complains about people refusing to approach
>plays WiiFit
Every time one of you fucks start a match by running off stage and volleyballing I always think of the fags that say how "honest" WFT is just because she's "obscure"

>opponent plays a heavy character
>eat them up as constant pressure and combofood

>opponent plays a projectile character
>run away, shoot lasers from across the stage, and reflect everything

>opponent plays a rushdown character
>run way, fire one or two lasers at a time, catch slipping, be elusive

Is Fox's toolset genuinely the most rounded in all Smash games? He's just always good. He has a toolbelt for every character he's up against, basically. Being fast and small makes him hard to catch, he has ridiculous damage and kill set-ups, and he can't be camped. When I'm rolling that online roulette wheel of characters, I usually go in with Fox just because going in blind he feels like he's got the highest probability of being able to deal with whatever I meet on the other end.

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How do you guys play SF characters and then go back to the others? One day I decided I was gonna learn Ryu so I played him all day and the next day went back to Lucario and it was fucking terrible because I got so used to the auto turning. Never touched SF characters again.

I'm over 4 million with several character but still no elite. Is it even worth it?

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It's like playing Yoshi in Melee, or a grappler in a traditional fighter, you just don't go back.

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He's super light and has pretty linear recovery along with somewhat small hitboxes in this game. He has fallen off substantially because his margin for error is so low at high level play. I think he's the most fun to play overall, though.

Fox and Pika's kits are the two from 64 that have aged the best, always consistently high-mid tier at their worst.

he's not rounded at all, he relies alot on a few busted moves and his grab game is terrible

her risk/reward ratio is fucked with too much risk. Not by Sheik being unsafe in any way, but more because her reward is so pitifully low. You have to outplay your opponent three times more than they need to outplay you to see favorable results with her. No way she can contest with those top tiers that get truckloads of damage easier than Sheik can get the damage of an average combo. I call bullshit on Void and Mr R on this one

Are there actually good players and real matches online or is it like pokken all over again where everyone just spams the most broken move on the most broken character over and over again?

Void and Mr R actually said "potentially high tier" sorry for the misinfo, still fun in offline friendlies just because of how hard you need to try to play optimally

If you're getting hit by the moves then they're justified to spam them because the spam is working.

Yes but they are rare. Most people are bad and hinge on the delay/latency. Lots of passive players who will throw out something and roll away or just throw out a powerful move just because. It's no joke that Ganon was pretty popular for awhile online while being basically not played offline.

You know what I mean faggot. Are people playing for real the way it’s meant to be played or are faggots just spamming whatever’s broken

Fox is one of those "theoretical top tiers" that always gets put into the top tier of player tier lists but never wins majors because there are much easier things to win with. He's a jack of all trades master of none, instead of a character like Joker or Snake who are masters of one.

>too much risk
nah she lands easily and recovers for free, it's mostly the reward part that's subpar

They may be justified if the goal is just trying to win (in the medium of being online), but it doesn't make for an interesting or fun experience-- most of it is actually terrible shit to try and do offline, but it gets a lot more success online

>the way it’s meant to be played

It's pretty rare to run into items and hazards online.

>0-death someone with Ken
>can never find another character satisfying to play
it's a curse

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Items and hazards are trash so that’s fine by me

I wanted to get Ken in there but I just started losing traction. Zoners were beating me pretty consistently for a bit just after I got close to enough GSP. Also people really don't like rematching, maybe because strong jab shoryu

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>secretly also fun
Duck Hunt.
>Why
The can.
The can is pure mind games and mix-ups if you have a certain playstyle.
Depending on how you smack the can, it gives it different launch properties like angle, speed, counter damage and hit stun.
The can allows you to get away with all sorts of bullshit that shouldn't be allowed in the game like:
>Breaking out of grabs
>Stage-spiking and gimping people at 20%
>Continuing, starting, and ending combos
>Messing with people's DI
>Blocking projectiles
>Easy shield-stabs

You could spam projectiles like a faggot, but if you really want to fuck with people you can come up with really creative setups that allow you to just fuck with people online.
Duck Hunt is pure set-ups, mind games and momentum based. Very hard to learn, but interesting.

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Fox shits out damage but it's hard to close out stocks. Nair into Usmash is true for only so long, and you only have a couple of chances to actually read the tech correctly before it's stops being a thing

>when the run-up ume-shoryu hits and you know the opponent is mad

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They don't rematch because losing a game takes away more than winning a game does, so if they lost they're gonna find someone else to rebuild.

Also because the GSP pool matches come from are pulled after you leave the select screen and only change when you return to the select screen.

the real risk comes from her extremely light weight. Other character's kill percents against her are WAY lower than her kill percents against them. Plus, her old killing problem got worse, as she lost an important 50/50 thanks to the new airdodge and her up-air, one of her most important kill moves in 4, just had it's kill power removed in Ultimate. Needles to Bouncing Fish works better, but that was always one of her more situational setups. Keeping fully-charged needles around for this and actually finding an opportunity to land it isn't very easy

>implying
Not me at least. I play pure aggression Wii Fit. I do know what you're talking about and I fucking hate it.
The only time I use the volleyball is to go for off-stage spikes or to delay my recovery.
I don't think Wii Fit is honest at all. The amount of spike set-ups and 0 to death combos is fucking insane.
The fact that they randomly say quotes when you land smash attacks is hilarious.

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Tell me about the Snake meme, why do they say he's the best int the game?

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>do Shoryuken from full screen
>they run up to punish
>Shoryuken again and kill

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>bair someone at 120
>they easily live
Pretty much. Super light, one of the few characters that can be reliably edgeguarded. Has trouble killing. Somewhat of a short reach (falling nair loses to wolf's nair, for example, even though fox is above him). He also doesn't get much of a reward off of grab and falling uair doesn't work except first hit -> utilt worth a damn.

That said, he is a vortex character. It may be a strange comparison, but I think Wario does his playstyle better.

Megaman sawblade invalidates disc and cowboy for free. Watch out friend.

Different user.
Yes, faggots are just spamming whatever's broken.

Every online game since ever has majority of faggots spamming whatever is most broken. What planet you living on bruh? Either join 'em or grow a pair and play how you like.

why is arsene so fucking busted?

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If she could hit low and she had an aerial "get off of me" move she would be legit good. As it is though, she has way too many blind spots. She's fun as fuck though, isn't she?

His punish game is gosu but his legs lose to swords while also being outsped by the rest of the tops.

this gif is fucking annoying

up air still killsn actually more consistent to get it from an f-tilt/u-tilt

pay2win

A Smash tradition.

what percent?

the meta has been moving away from swordies since launch

i keep getting to elite and then getting knocked out during the very first match

because joker and sheik are pretty much the same character except joker keeps ganondorf in his pocket

depends on stage/platforms

>invalidates disc and cowboy
Yup, learned that the hard way.
Cowboy stops jab spam and side-smash though.
Whenever I run into a megaman, I just go for gimps and pray. Those bastards are tricky.

>pay2win
Reminds me of the numerous Cloud players in 4

I need had a problem with Bayo in 4 because most people who played as her was shit even before the nerf. And by the time they learned how to play as her she'd already been nerfed

Cloud was always annoying as shit

Joker is honestly one of the most unfun characters to fight. You essentially give him an advantage just for doing well against him.

>tfw you take the final stock with a smash attack
>the screen flashes red and you hear: "You're wobbling, try to keep your balance" or "When exerting yourself, remember to keep breathing"
I lose my shit every time. Love playing wii fit.

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Why would you intentionally want to get into elite smash? So you can play with obnoxious try hards?

Elite Smash's only purpose is to quarantine people who are doing exceptionally well from bodying all the bads by making them wait in wait room purgatory where it takes ages to match make.

Have to fuck up my win loss ratio just to get out of it if I want to play Triple Dee.

Sheik in 4 used to be able to d-tilt u-air at around 120 and kill that way from the ground. I found that the same combo doesn't reach the blast zone until about 160 in Ultimate. using platforms would definitely help her out, especially on triplats with small ceilings like Melee Yoshi's

>GSP
I got into elite smash on day 2 of release with a character and haven't touched that char since then. GSP is now 5,010,000 on him(Ridley), despite the fact that my Ridley is asscheeks. The system is gay and so is quickplay, all the good players play in arenas.

because at least in elite smash you stop getting laggy ganons with items on big blue

No. All elite gets you is being able to say you're elite online. You can do that without being in elite.

Joker might be the worst addition to the Smash franchise.

As much as Bayo was annoying and silly, at least she was iconic and recognizable, and if you got her slipping you could fuck her up hard.

Joker is just a literally who weabb pick fun-vampire who gains a bonus for losing with a comeback mechanic. He's Sm4sh Cloud on steroids. He's dominant in neutral, kills easily, and can't be punished or juggled easily, recovers for free especially with his gay ghost.

>He's Sm4sh Cloud on steroids
Smash 4 cloud was a different beast, joker doesn't come close

I don't understand why the game feels like making me lose 2 million GSP some times. I'll climb to where I'm fighting evenly matched opponents, then suddenly everyone is kicking my ass. Then I lose a million GSP and they're still kicking my ass. Then I come back the next day down 2 million GSP and everyone is piss easy. It's like there's a margin of error of at least 2 million GSP that fluctuates based on the time of day.

This is fox and grapes tier coping. I get matches above 5 million in less than 10 seconds no matter when I play. Elite isnt even "elite" at all, all it takes is a pulse and an IQ above 80. You only get good players in the top 1%, and elite is 3x that size

There is no escape from Ganonbabies.

>Both players are equally skilled.
>Get to 65% at the same time
>Unless the other player is a heavy, you are now at kill percent and Joker isn't.

>Sm4sh Cloud
>getting hit a lot gives you one super powered move that you may have to blow offstage just to recover

>Ultimate Joker
>getting hit a lot gives you armor, all your moves become kill moves, you get the best projectiles and recovery in the game, and it lasts a ridiculously long time

I can't fucking play the game
I'm nearing 20k gsp on my main G&W

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Its a bell curve. If youre close to the middle, you'll swing a lot in either direction on wins and losses. If you're at the ends it goes up and down very slowly.

Just avoid him when he is in Persona mode. Most likely going to be spamming his counter for babies anyways.

>playing with items off is about as fun as inserting my dick into a meat grinder
I have never heard someone get bored because of a lack of items. I played 8-player smash over the weekend with some of the guys I went to college with. and they play the game maybe once or twice a year. But we all agree on no items.
Stage selection is where the variety is at, though.

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Smash 4 cloud had a giant sword that invalidate many characters without even needing to use any Limit. Joker has no such range and doesn't invalidate anybody

Jokers recovery is actually a lot worse with Arsene vs without. He has to recover slowly and linearly without a hitbox with the wings and he can actually mixup his recovery with the grapple. He also has the armor which is way harder to punish vs the counter.

I've told this story before, and I'll tell it again.
>Get into elite with PT
>Get pretty good, reach 4.9million GSP
>All of my opponents are now Links, Young Links, Toon Links, Nesses, Snakes, and Ganondorfs.
>Win most of the matches, but most of every game I play is now an unfun, long as fuck game where some faggot shoots me once and runs away
>I literally thank Jesus fucking Christ in heaven whenever I get a Ganondorf because matches with them are actually (comparatively) fun and quick.

Some faggot using items is what usually kills my GSP. RNG will always get the upper hand over skills eventually.

Not to mention that even without Arsecrack he's a high tier character on his own.

Clouds has a bigass sword that feels like it can hit you from anywhere on the stage with OP frame data and good ground game

4Cloud was "what if Little Mac had good aerials AND a sword??"

I know how you feel
If you keep pushing you leave them behind, at like 4.99 you don't really get zoners anymore
Keep at it user

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I'm about 4 million on my main but I gotta be honest, climbing to 100k was fucking annoying. It's where people enable annoying rulesets the most, it's where people lag the most, and I swear some people down there are actually as good as ~4M GSP and they're just smurfing.
Once you get to 100k, you'll be 2 million with just a handful of wins. GSP is all fucked up.

Sm4sh Cloud had an up air with no lag that had a histbox the size of a superheavy,chrom up air x 500, a lagless nair that was as big as shulk's, a backair that is completely safe (not a thing in sm4sh) and comboed into anything, a dair that lasted for even and comboes into his entire kit , could kill safely at before 70, and don't forget that limit made him a beast with a faster dash and fall speed and never ran out, basically if arsen never ran out,

Is there anything scarier than a good shulk? Just got pounded by one who told me “that was rough”

I don't really main any one character and jump around a lot, so I face a combination of not playing enough with a character to get particularly good with them and not playing enough with a character to get the necessary points with them even if I were good with them because i'll probably play them once or twice before mixing things up and moving to another character. There are nearly 80 characters in this game, it would be a pity to stick with just a few. Plus I have no motivation to get to elite smash. I have more fun trying to get 9.9's and playing local multiplayer. Also elite smash isn't permanent, nor does it improve the quality of fights from what I hear. I only really go online for arenas and shared content. Anybody know any users with good custom target test stages by the way?

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There is not a bigger headache character to fight against than Inkling.

To be completely honest, I might pick up Dedede again just to counter zonerfags, because there's no way I'm going to grind to nearly 5 million just to I can encounter people who are actually good at the game.

Shulk players are usually ass so a good one catches me off guard. I have a bad habit of not trying as hard if I don't think I need to. Like when I see a K. Rool, I just play slower and lazier because I'm just gonna win anyway.

Will the DLC powercreep in ultimate be bad as 4?

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I've never seen a single annoying ruleset, I just get my ass torn open every single game. I'm on a 26 loss streak now

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i don't think banjo and hero will be that overpowered, they'll both have good range, though

>Fought against one that did nothing but camp the ledge throwing bombs.
>Took all three of my stocks by spamming roller until it worked.

>A drop in your GSP draws near!
>Command?

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Practice helps the most, but sometimes you need to lookup some YouTube videos to send your practice in the right direction. There are a lot of mechanics in Smash you may not even know exist.

>a fellow /ssbg/ goer liked my big dumb rant on how to fix Arsene

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Based and villainpilled

if Hero's spells work the way i think they do, than he could easily be high tier. You would need to be careful with your MP though, so no spamming Zap or keeping Bounce on all the time

>play match
>absolutely destroy other player
>play match
>get absolutely btfo’d
I never get anyone on my skill level, fuck

The last DLC character will be the most broken character in smash just like 4

I saw it after coming off a match with him and thinking the same exact thing.

This is true. Elite smash is top 3% of players, around 5 million total so that's a wide fucking window. The bottom third of Elite are the "bad players but cheesed out worse players using janky rulesets or abusing a strategy noobs wont understand". People using special flags, people who just passively sit in shield and do aerials or invincible up bs out of shield. This is where you see lots if Zeldas, Ness and so on.

Of the remaining 2/3s of elite, 75% of them are the zoners and wifi warriors from third world shitholes who are masters of playing in 200 ms ping. This is where you see endless and endless hordes of Ness, Snake, Links, Wii Fit, Ganondorf, Little Mac etc. Breaking through this group can be hard because of the high connection variance and you need to learn how to fight zoners. Its boring but you gotta do it

The final group is where you reach the promised land of good connections and high quality opponents. Currently around 5,050,000 GSP. You'll finally start seeing a variety of characters here, though You'll still see more of the wifi benefit characters than others.

I think the only OP character we're probably getting is the Hero. I don't even think Joker is that overpowered.

Meanwhile, in Smash 4 we had
>Bayonetta
>Cloud
>Corrin who was terrible to fight online
>Ryu who was also terrible to fight online

Know when to take a break

I do look up and I know about every tech on paper. But when it comes to the actual match I just shit the bed and the opponent reads me like an open book

Its not going because I only play with my friend.

Hero seems inherently good. Sword + Projectiles and also the fact that those projectiles/spells seem like they might be a bit bullshit. They've essentially got Jigg's Sing as a projectile and it doesn't leave you helpless. That's gonna lead to some crazy shit.

Banjo seems like he might be more Piranha Planty. His projectiles seem very slow and his hitboxes look awkward. Smash attacks extremely slow. Vulnerable recovery even though it can be acted out of at the apex. The Breegul Blaster constant firing could be alright, but guarantee it has a shit tonne of endlag so if you're on a stage with platforms or a character can just jump towards you close enough, it's just gonna be punished.

god i fucking love bowser in this game, his air game is so satisfying

wonderwing might be great, but i dunno, banjo seemed kinda unfinished imo. he's still a couple of months away, couldn't really tell much from his trailer compared to hero.

>Of the remaining 2/3s of elite, 75% of them are the zoners and wifi warriors from third world shitholes who are masters of playing in 200 ms ping
Literally me

I have a feeling Oomph and Snooze will be very popular, and Kamikazee will show up in a ton of montages. I feel like as long as people hold onto enough MP for Kamikazee, Hero will be very dangerous. I know Kamikazee usually just uses the remainder of MP rather than a specific amount, but considering Psyche Up has a specific cost means Kamikazee will likely be the same. Bounce will also be pretty convenient for zoners depending on how long it lasts. It really sounds like Hero will be a character that can change his moveset to fit his opponent.

Bayo was so bad in 4 she ruined the meta, I think Sakurai learned from that.

As soon as I saw Snooze, Oomph, and Psyche Up, i knew some bullshit was about to happen. Suicide moves in DQ usually use just whatever MP you have left, so Kamikaze will never be off the table as long you have at least 1. And Bounce, oh boy Snake is so fucked

Elite is such a fucking problem because going higher is the only way to improve your chances of finding a decent match with your ruleset

And it STILL DOESNT WORK HALF THE TIME, so it doesnt matter yet it does at the same time

Do you have any replays to show? Its hard to say otherwise, but you say you play Game and Watch? I find it hard to believe you can just cheese your way to at least 4 million by spamming up b into the down air constantly. Or even just running around up smashing. There's no way people that low can deal with that.

My only guess is you're just doing unsafe stuff on their shield constantly. Try not pushing so many buttons and focus on making your opponent fuck up, NOT on hitting them. Do dont go around dash attavking them in neutral or whatever. Use your back air or something if your not certain it will hit.

care to dump it here?

I have elite with the entire roster and elite wont help you with that either. Good players dont play elite very often, they play in Arenas most of the time. They're not gonna try as hard in them but that's the point

What I was saying though is while that's usually the case for Kamikazee, Psyche up usually doesn't use any MP, but it has a cost of 17 as seen in the trailer. I think they'll give Kamikazee a cost this time around.

Why did they get rid of this simple but perfectly fine system? All they had to do was add Battlefield version of stages into 4gloryhole and it would have been peachy.

The new system sucks so much shit for the player it's astounding.

>no way to communicate with the other player like you could through tags in 4
>can't switch characters once you're matched with someone, so if you finally find someone fun to play against you're stuck playing the same matchup endlessly
>often get thrown into ridiculous rulesets despite preferring your own

Like Christ, if I'm going to have to have a laggy pissfest for online, I'd at least like it to have the basic functionality of communication and character selection. It's like they looked at the old system and tried to take out the few redeeming qualities of standard online matchmaking that it had.

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For Glory + a ranking/title system would've been great.

Dash dancing and short hopping help with the predictability. Also work on reading them, keep your eye on the enemy as they're falling, remember how many jumps they've taken and what recovery options they have left. If they're out of them, you know exactly where they're gonna land and can take advantage of that.
Try to get off stage more. If you see them recovering low, just run off the side of the stage and try to attack them, don't jump off the stage, just run off it. You'll have a jump and recovery move left making it easy to get back on.
Also you said you looked up videos, but make sure you look up one on your actual character too. Doesn't have to be a long video, just some ten minute one explaining what the attacks are good for. Learn your character's kill moves, you can't rely on Smash attacks to take every stock. Sometimes a character's kill moves don't make sense, for example one of Young Link's best is a fucking kick, you'd think any sword attack would be better.

i hate discord but you'll have to use it to find good matches

Any Zelda main mind rating my gameplay and giving some tips?
I wish I had a better vid to showcase it but I already have this one uploaded
youtu.be/Zs-mj8vmeRg

If you refer to ping, fuck you. Niggers with bad connections shouldnt be allowed to connect, and to be honest Nintendo needs to show you the connection quality amd allow players to refuse matches if its bad. Literally every other fighting game does this.

Nah visible ranking systems are cancer.
God I should have played 4.

4.5 mil.

I don't care about staying in elite, I just wanna say I did and be done with it.

Also want to do it in the fairest way possible, which is unfortunately denying rematches to everyone, regardless of outcome. GSP system is a mistake.

Also feel that getting elite here in Japan is a bit harder than other places.

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>Snake is so fucked
Only on certain moves, explosions can't be reflected. Snakes will adapt around Hero so long as Snake remains the best character in the game.

that would kinda suck. a suicide move would be pointless if you couldn't use it deep in a fight. i guess, if anything, it would make it much more disrespectful to go for in a match

>I don't care about staying in elite, I just wanna say I did and be done with it.
know this feel

sure, I can fetch it pretty easy from the archive

(1/2)
>The only thing I would change about Joker is how the Arsene limit functions, I'm all around fine with the framedata, damage output, gun shenanigans, and knockback in all forms. Nerf the shit out of the passive limit gain, buff the shit out of the rebel's guard gain, MAYBE buff the time Arsene is out to compensate. This would differentiate the ungabunga shitters from the players who actually know what they're doing, and it makes it so that getting Arsene is much less a comeback mechanic and moreso an expression of pure skill. You earned that raw Ganon tier killing power. It doesn't matter if this results in people abusing Rebel's Guard to get Arsene three times a stock. Guess what that would mean? It means you were playing like a fucking idiot and you should be punished for it. If these changes were made Joker would be perfect, strong but not stupidly oppressive, and it would challenge his players to get creative to get Arsene.

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Suffer with me brother

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Yeah, I was playing against Japanese players at 4 AM and they seem to y'know, actually play the fucking game instead of trying to find the cheesiest strat for GSP grinding with minimal thinking or risk involved.

better question is why they removed taunting?

You need to stop throwing away all your advantage and putting yourself in disadvantage for an edge guard every time you throw your opponent off. That rarely ever works against a good opponent, and they would have punished you harshly for that habit.

For Glory had a godawful ruleset though.
Even if it wasn't utter shit, you didn't get a choice if you wanted variety of any sort.

(2/2, in response to someone saying Arsene is out too long)

it's really not at all, playing around Arsene is not terribly difficult when you consider how powerful it is. You have to camp him out, which forces him to approach because Arsene is on a timer, so he pretty much has to act in this time. This makes it so you can punish his aggression which depletes the meter, and if you can punish him with a grab that's even better because pummel depletes it even faster.

the problem lies not only in how frequent it comes out, but the timing it happens to come out because of how the passive gain works. Say you have two players of equal skill against each other who trade neutral wins evenly. Because of how the passive works, you can assume Joker will get Arsene out when they're both at around 65% (if he's also using rebel's guard). Because of the timing, the other guy is now at kill percent, but Joker isn't. Joker can now make quick work of the stock, and have enough meter to maybe even rack on like 40 or 50 more damage going on into the next one. Now the other guy is completely FUCKED, no matter how he plays, even if he manages to even out the stock, he'll still be around Arsene kill percent if you're someone like Fox who can manage to rack up like a 75 damage combo. It's all about the timing here, having Arsene come out automatically like that so frequently is an advantage

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Yeah. I feel like it would be amazing if it worked like it does in the game, but I am also worried because of what they did to Psyche Up. I also can't help but be curious about whether they'll have a recovery that doesn't cost MP. It would suck to run out of MP and be left without a recovery.

he's so bad because of how polarizing his strengths and weaknesses are
i find him fun as fuck despite the easily gimpable recovery

>can no longer taunt
>can no longer talk shit in tags

I guarantee on of the reasons thy removed being able to select characters and change tags between matches was because it was a way for people to trashtalk eachother, so they took out taunting and banter.

The result is sterile games where you can't taunt at the start for fun and can't tell the other player "2/3" or "1more"

>bob and weave gameplay
you mean trade fsmash with super armor gameplay but yeah

Honestly, Ultimates online is dogshit. The only improved thing is public lobbies. And even then you cant swap chars without losing your spot in line its retarded. How they fucked up basic shit like this is mindblowing.

the Zoom spell has been made free in the more recent DQ games. Hopefully they'll keep it that way. It seems similar to Joker's Wings of Rebellion minus the invincible startup, so not too busted of a recovery to make it cost something

Other than being locked on FD it was fine.

This separates the boys who used toys from the men that did not want any randomness involved. Still don't know why I am forced to play with people that use items that do the work for them.

I was hoping it would be free like the newer games as well. I don't necessarily need Hero to be overpowered or anything, but i'd hate for him to end up being really bad.

>Main a mid-tier
>Get irrationally upset every time I lose to a Top-tier main

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>assuming equal skill level
THIS is why I wanted you to post it again, I wanted to see THIS in context.
I just want you to know that using impossible hypotheticals, that, even in perfect conditions, won;t be applicable in any real world scenario, don't help your argument
Skill barrier is always gonna be a thing between players, this is fact, and it also heavily skews perception of some characters like Tweek with Bowser Jr. in 4. Even then, if both players are of constant skill, one will always be trying to putplay the other at consistent intervals, then the match itself is ironically unpredictable as fuck. You can;t say Arsene usually comes out a 60% because we HAVEN'T seen that happen yet, even with the best Joker in the world. You can't account for early stocks, gimps, Rebel's Guard use, or even the mentality of the players, which doesn't even factor skill. That 65% is, by default context of your argument, faulty.
You don't say "WELL, in these near unobtainable, unpredictable conditions, he would be broken!"because that's bullshit

>landing a falcon knee unintentionally after slighty caressing the a button

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I feel like in the worst case scenario, you'll just have to be especially careful with your MP use. And besides, we have swords. That's bound to be a big advantage

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you're acting like people trading relatively equal damage up to the mid-high tens is rare

skill levels dont have to be equal for that to happen

Why the fuck are Yea Forumseekends and Custom stages threads ded, bros?

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Ah I see.
I just find Zeldas dair to be very spammable, its a little too fun

The same reason Yea Forumskends died in Sm4sh. Autism.

>try to use nair while jumping forward
>fair

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This board plays less and less video games over time. It's also filled with even more dumb children now.

Discordfags

No it wasn't, mostly because of Smash 4's ruleset being shit by default.
2 stocks is not enough for an interesting match to take place and just fosters an environment where cheese is encouraged, and not even the good kind either.
5:00 was also pretty fucking short, and again, if you didn't like it, you were shit out of luck for the only way to play online
Arenas>Quickplay>For Glory imo

I suppose you're right. I guess when really thinking about it, the developers would likely care far too much about Dragon Quest to make the Hero completely terrible. At least I hope that's the case.

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I'm currently at 4.2mil GSP with him and have had varying success. I like to play an extremely bait and punish oriented little mac, using neutral B to force approaches. I honestly think BF is a better stage for him than omega since it offers more areas to recover onto.

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snake's f air and f smash are so fucking bad

Why the fuck can't I incorporate grabs into my game? It seems to come so natural to literally every other player but for me it just always feels like a pointless risk.

Discord really ruined Yea Forums, especially Yea Forums, huh.

havent played quickplay in months, just been playing arenas with anons and my tournament buddies

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this is assuming vanilla joker is a competent character, he can't kill without arsene

I am awful at smash, is there some sort of general roadmap you could point me towards that tells me how to start practicing correctly?

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>468865337
No, it;s not, but you DON'T know if they will, nor do you know if someone gets an early kill, or if the Joker get's Arsene early, which completely fucks up the scenario you envisioned, not even to factor, again how Rebel's Guard is reacted to by both players.. This hypothetical happens so rarely it's hardly worth mentioning in an actual argument.

>when the Banana Slamma lands at low percentage and your opponent goes rocketing down towards the blast zone then jumps out of hitstun right into your Kong Bongo slaps and is spiked for a second time

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is there a way to avoid getting edgeguarded as mac?

this I concocted that scenario from my personal experiences from both playing as and against Joker, as well as from watching a lot of Jokers in top level play, not just Leo. It is not farfetched to say there is a sort of rhythm to when Arsene is automatically comes out, and it usually happens when Joker can take advantage of it

The threads on Yea Forums stopped gaining traction overtime so fags just moved to discord to organize. Honestly don't blame them. Nobody here wants to play the game and would rather endlessly discuss rosterfaggotry.

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I'm not the guy you initially respond to, but his scenarios weren't outlandish at all. They've happened to me frequently with all the fucking Jokers I've seen online recently.

Of course other shit can happen, it's a fighting game with a shittonne of potential inputs and outcomes, doesn't mean his point isn't valid and that joker doesn't need some sort of rework.

>This hypothetical happens so rarely it's hardly worth mentioning in an actual argument.
Bullshit

>the speed with which you furiously tap down and down and down on your control stick in the slow motion ending of the game screen after your opponent took an early stock and crouchspammed first

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4.5mil as sheik and I cap out around there
I need to be consistent with uair drag down combos and I need to set up bouncing fish kills betterer

I wanted him to be good so bad in 4. Actual Punch Out fan, love the emphasis on dodging and speed, and he looks so cool.

But no, this game likes the air too much for him to work, and he actually just forces the other player to spam grabs and projectiles which ruins every matchup.

hard reading a roll in with fsmash gives me a boner
but yeah you could achieve the same thing with an utilt

I dont think it counts as bait and punish when the only reason they got "baited" was because their timing is fucked up by your BR connection.

Well fuck me now I regret not joining one since I actually wanna play on the weekends again, and custom stages arenas were fucking AMAZING.

well this and also getting Arsene just 5% later can completely fuck with the match you described. EVEN assuming both players were equal level, median's or averages don not work here because just one percent in Smash is the difference between life and death. We're not even facotring in matchups here, what if it's a losing one? How would the other Joker react, even IF they're at the same skill level. There are too amyn factors.
Okay then, were you at equal skill level? Who were you playing? You don't even KNOW the mentality of your foe, not to mention Online play is so far removed from competitive it's laughable, Online experience holds no bearing in how good or broken a character is.
Thew situation describe doesn;t apply to any experience you could of had online

Setplay online is SUPER fucking cancerous.
>Luigi that just spams grab over and over and never approaches
That said, for Inkling, just figure out your best out of shield option with your character and just do it over and over and over in safety. Like if you're Marth, just dolphin slash every time they tap your shield with roller or the like. It's not the strongest punish, but it will mostly put a stop to that. The amount of people that just will never approach even when they are losing terribly is cancer. Also people booting you for taking a dump on them is pretty constant as well.
>go into lobby and beat host
>get disconnected before the winscreen is even over
How do they do it so quickly? What the fuck. I get kicked often for going random as well. I guess they figure I'm not going to be any good. Jokes on them though. My winrate with random in arenas is pretty damn high.

Don't waste your jumps if you figure you're about to go off stage. Never solely rely on Side B to make it back to the ledge. Mix up your recovery with an air-dodge towards the stage or up-special. Counter slows down your fall speed so you can use it to avoid falling like a brick off-stage. You can also bait edgeguards into hitting your counter which can send you towards the ledge.

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counter works but it has enough endlag to where you could SD if ur not careful
also i found out a back in january you could drift upB and ive been doing it ever since

>I have never heard someone get bored because of a lack of items.
Hello there, then.

I play casually and get too excited when playing ranked games and end up throwing. What is it called ladder anxiety? I can always lose GSP but I don't think it will ever increase or get to elite in anything.

I kick randoms. I dont usually want people clowning around, I want consistency and good connections. Someone actually trying is likely to have both, someone playing random wont.

>get to elite on dorf
>immediately matched up with toon link/young link/link/zelda/inkling/snake over and over
>fall all the way back down to 3.6
i swear to god this game knows favorable/unfavorable matchups and puts you with shit you can't possibly beat when you're doing too good.

Meh. Unplayable lewd stages while one guy is tryharding 10x more than everybody else forcing the whole room to tryhard...on awful poopoo peepee lewd stages. It wasn't great.

I mainly just use it to stop myself from falling fast enough to miss the ledge with an up-special. Works pretty well against players who always attempt really predictable edgeguards.

>the fairest way possible
The fairest way possible would be a set of at least 2/3. Give some time to adapt. I understand you don't want to just shit on a bad player over and over for points, but a single win can be just as bad. But GSP doesn't matter so who cares?

I pretty much agree with you except counter shouldn't be able to be held like it can be. Watch good Jokers like Leo put a lot of opponents in situations where they just can't pressure him high up or offstage. It's a less-cancerous witchtime where it takes away interaction as playing the game hurts the other player. You just have to respect it unless you can get him to do it on a platform or something and even then you have to read the timing of release decently.

If someone comes in with random already, you should probably give them a go. They are likely better than you'd think. Most players are so garbage that going a particular character is boring as sin. I'm hoping Banjo will be the type of mid-ranger to scratch my itch. I've been playing lots of Marth just because he's a bit more stimulating since he actually has to think about his spacing, unlike most characters, but he retains enough movement and options to not feel like a gimmick.

so what exactly is your point
assuming a situation of "other player traded relatively equally with Joker up to ~60%" is so ludicrously specific that it can't happen in reality (lol), and that there must be a billion other factors at play that have to be considered for everything - do you think Joker is currently fine and balanced and that the complaints around how Arsene works are valid?

Do you think a change to make Arsene more Rebel Guard vs damage taken dependent would be a bad one?

>dorf will never be given better air speed/more damage resistance/better recovery
any single one of those would go so far toward making him a usable character. he's pretty much going to be a solid "worst pick in the entire game" until he gets one of those.

I would rather him be as he is than more airspeed and then just throwing out nairs everywhere and acting like he takes thought. He would need tweaking in other ways.

>inkling
i've fought 50000 inklings and 60000 jokers. what gives? i would've thought the joker hype would've died down, but thanks to MKLeo showing he's best in the game w/ best character, i guess not. inkling is so not fun to fight against, if you play inkling, fuck you. i also hate olimar and shulk

Thanks for the help anons, I'll keep your advice in mind. Also, is there a war to input n-airs more consistantly? I keep inputing f-airs all the time when trying to n-air

give him his melee jump after aerial down b, and increase his ground speed just a bit. increase his grab range. there. you're now a solid mid tier.

Or I can not waste 3 minutes shitting on some guy playing a character he barely knows how to play and instead continue playing with someone who understands the mechanics if their character?

>give him his melee

Never gonna happen.

that's why i said you could pick any one of those three. right now i get ko'd at under 100% because his recovery is fucking trash, his air speed is fucking trash, and he gets knocked around like he was fucking pichu.

:(

Why does Samurai hate them? Even Little Mac is probably better than the Robins by now...

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>4.7 as Isabelle
>4.2 as Simon
>4.0 as Samus
Never been in Elite and I’ve been playing nonstop since launch

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You gotta reset stick to neutral before you press attack. Just practice the timing a lot. Run off plat nair. Jump back nair. Jump forward nair. platform drop nair. Just do this a lot as practice and it will become easier.

>see nothing but zero suit players online, never once see power suit samus
>always try and ask the people why on /smash general/
>usual reply is "power suit samus is fucking sjw shit, muh waifu is the far better option"

This is honestly why I hate playing Smash. My main gets completely ignored because of disgusting sex bait like ZSS. I honestly wish it was removed entirely. It's done nothing but harm Metroid as a series.

It should go without saying that more things go on in a match than what I outlined, but I'm talking about a general trend that happens while a match develops
>We're not even facotring in matchups here, what if it's a losing one?
this is a valid point, but the problem is with my initial wording, not the scenario itself. What I should have said is if you have a game where players are trading damage evenly and at least appear evenly matched regardless of their actual skill or matchup, Joker will have the advantage. So the rats are a bad MU for Joker, but in a scenario where they trade damage equally and have an equal chance of edgeguarding the other for an early kill, then yes Joker has the edge now at the best time possible. This scenario happens often enough that it ought to be addressed, I am proposing a method in which Arsene can be an expression of skill, not something that just happens outside of the opponent's control

protip: airdodge towards stage immediately once you get knocked into the blast zone. THEN jump, then up b/side b/air dodge into ledge. it helps a ton with ganon's recovery. upair if someone comes ttowars you. get ready to tech against ledge, too.

NO, i'm Not saying it never happens, I'm saying you using it is a faulty metric for gauging Joker's advantage with Arsene. You don't even seem to account for the damage reduction given by Rebel's Guard, which can ALSO fuck up the conditions. If you did, that just means damage taken and given wasn't equal after all. That's just ANOTHER condition that could prevent what you said.
Also, I never said I disagreed, just that your metric upon which you argument ids based off is actually shit. I do think he should be tweaked a bit, and your ideas were pretty good. I think my route would be to only have the meter go up by damage given, but to compensate, have Rebel's Guard do more than be a damage sponge. It already is kind of a combo starter, why not just give it that in full while also have it gain meter.

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Playing a lot wont make it happen. Its about playing well CONSISTENTLY. Dont waste time in quickplay. Find good opponents in Arenas, play them lots of times and try to actively adapt to little sitautions between games. Save replays, take note of stupid shit You do and so on. Then try QP after a while and fight 10 random guys once each. See how many You can beat. Try and improve this number every week or so by practicing in arenas or better yet offline.

It's all personal experience. I see a ton of Samus online and rarely do i see ZSS.

Because sakurai realizes how shitty nu emblem is and how avatars ruined the franchise. Based Sack.

Grab ranges are just booty in general in this game. His is more than okay in context of everything. I will concede his double jump after his down B is fine, but he doesn't need a higher dash speed. You know what? You bringing up Melee reminds me of exactly why most heavy hitters in this game irk me. Instead of giving them moves that can still get tagged by a well-placed attack, they just gave them superarmor or giant disjoints. The result is that everyone just camps them even harder because trying to just open up a Ganon over and over isn't worth it when fading aerial beats so much. Inciniroar and Bowser (worst offender here) are similar. Inciniroar is straight up garbage to try to outbox in neutral because his limbs will just go through everything. DK is the only exception to any of this, though they did give him stupid SA on his headbutt. Shouldn't exist. Up B should just have stayed the way it was before.

Stay free then if it takes you three minutes to beat someone who doesn't even know the mechanics of the game.

This is USUALLY good advice, but airdodging to the stage has a shit ton of lag and if your opponent reacts they can easily jump out and hit you after you AD.You only want to airdodge for distance if you got sent super far AND your opponent is not playing a char that can easily hit you.

ZSS is rare online because she's difficult to play online. She has to space precisely to hit low and a lot of her better stuff is good reaction. (flip kick invincibility is cancer though). Samus, while not as good overall, is much easier to be annoying with when you have 13 frames of delay covering you

I said barely undstands their character, not the game. Learn how to read. Stay mad random, I'll keep kicking you.

>retard vs retard trying to figure out based purely on percentage numbers of damage whether or not joker is busted
you could just look at any gameplay footage of him blasting diarrhea on any other character. like that's empirical data. you don't have to sit here and theorycraft. he's a shittily designed character, and they're going to leave him ungodly powerful because him being in the game is a huge draw towards buying it for some people.

>45 seconds just to wait for the game to load
>another 30 seconds just to get out of the game
Fuck you faggot.

4.9 Million
The bad matchmaking fucks me over sometimes

just practice with level 9 CPUs

hes VERY fun when youre playing against idiots like braindead marios or casual heavies.
playing against smart zoners is painful.
his recovery is still awful
im at 3.3 million with him, hes fun
im in elite with bowser

still replying to the other guy..

anway ~65% is a fair estimate based on how the passive works considering it fills automatically overtime, and it accounts for maybe one read with rebel's guard. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I believe it to be fair. I didn't forget about the damage reduction, it was implied to be factored in and I didn't think I had to specify it outright. I feel like you're overcomplicating things here

She does pretty well in doubles what with her surprising decent weight and nosferatu letting her stay alive. Even in singles her thunder spell mix up can mess with people along with arc fire to levin sword chasing.

But if they ARE, evenly matched, then wouldn't the Rate be at a constant advantage, like one in damage? Your conditions are also that of which Tier Lists and Matchups are crafted, so It's safe to assume the Joker would be on the losing end consistently throughout the match. Then wouldn't that ALSO fuck up with your metric? NOot t mention you saying "equal chance of edgegurding" shows misunderstanding of the matchup in of itself. Joker is hit at edgeguarding the rats, while also being edgegaurd fodder himself, especially with Arsene. Joker preys on opponents who have to go low, when the rate don't have to at all. Gun is nearly useless as an edgeguarding tool against them. Doesn;t Pichu's self damage ALSO fuck with your metric? which damaging moves will beused when?
You haven;t provided a SINGLE matchup in where your condition would be guaranteed to happen often enough to be addressed.
I don't even disagree with you btw is me. Your just providing awful arguments as to why he would be broken.

I can only hover around 2 mil GSP on Yoshi, so no

I don't know how to improve and I have a tendency to rematch people who just beat me

mines is 8000

I gave up months ago

I just wish she didn't exist period. Sex fanservice ruined Metroid and became the most important thing in the series, leading up to the trash heap that was Other M. I have never met a single ZSS fan that actually liked Metroid, and they only play her in Smash because of their dicks.

I have to tell you, it is frustrating being the only person out of 10 million+ smash players who actually likes Metroid and isn't driven by their hormones.

honestly the matches around 2 mil GSP are about as hard as the ones up at 4.3 Mil GSP. don't know why that is.

Well, I guess this is where we won;t agree. Why one Rebel's Guard read? Off of what hit? What if he dies beforehand by an unlucky gimp?
There's too much you don't answer for that metric to be taken seriously

>while also being edgegaurd fodder himself, especially with Arsene
>edgegaurd fodder himself
>especially with Arsene
epic retard lmao

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>Sex fanservice ruined Metroid and became the most important thing in the series
It's been there since Metroid on the NES

Yes, it's been a blight on the series since the NES. Like any flaw, it should've been removed.

This is a bad way to practice, I know because I do it all the time and get absolutely bodied when I fight real people like I do CPUs. You have to have a really good knowledge of the game to fight CPUs WITHOUT fucking up your playstyle on accident.
Watch Izaw and other beginner guides to get a well rounded outlook. He has a video dedicated to efficient practice.
Though technical skill is a baseline for success and not success unto itself. You need good neutral and the only way to get that is to change your mindset entirely until you have one that works.

You're making the terrible mistake of conflating a character in Smash with the games they come from. You're better off trying to sever the feeling that anyone represents anything and instead they are just selectable characters within a game. I can't say I'm a huge fan of ZSS either (though Zero Mission was great), but I'm not going to get in a huff when I see her in-game. Also, Other M was not caused by the lead up from Zero Mission.

I've gotten a few characters that I've enjoyed playing into Elite.
>Ridley
>Dark Samus
>Dark Pit
>Falco
>Incineroar
I've had Shulk in there as well but I got on a losing streak and I'm too nervous to try and bring him back in.

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It's Nintendo.
They are fucking notorious for terrible online.

It depends on what your goal is, honestly. Getting good or acceptably good online is completely different than actually getting good at the game.

>Impying Arsene isn't easy as fuck to hit out of/ two-frame, as stated by multiple people, including commentators and pros
>implying Grappling Hook is anything more than decent. and basically forces you to immediately snap to ledge against a competent foe, thus severely limiting options
>implying I wasn't talking about the Electric Rats, the two most notorious characters for this in the game, under the hypothetical in which it's a losing matchup

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only characters i've gotten to elite is Kirby and Joker. i couldnt stand to do it anymore, it's just pure suffering

>You're making the terrible mistake of conflating a character in Smash with the games they come from.
The problem is that the idiot Sakurai literally made her the focal point of Metroid. ZSS is now more important to the series than anything else. And that is why Other M was made, because Sakurai just had to make this female character sexy and revealing, and then Sakamoto decided that this sexy female needed emotions and a father figure and moments of PTSD.

And what did we get as a result? Some stupid lightweight fighter with retarded high heels and a whip, dressed in skimpy underwear so she could be a discount Bayonetta, who was also a from a bad game series only liked for titties and fanservice. And let me tell you, I don't ever want Metroid becoming like Bayonetta.

The hook's options are how low you can go and still grab edge and how fast he reels in. It's way safer unless you are super close to the edge. How often does Leo die offstage from his recovery vs him edgeguarding other people?

I think you need to calm down dude. Other M was bound to happen no matter what. It was a curse.

It's sometimes because tryhard faggots are just using characters with low gsp to fuck with people in that range.

>be bowser main, 4.4 million gsp
>My ruleset is 7 minute, 3 stock
>match loads, see that items are on
Think 'this won't be too bar's
>it's only S Flags versus ZSS, all she does kick me off stage and get +1 stock
So fucking aggravating.

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how can you fuck up your playstyle when you're fighting against good people/bots? It'll help you improve and learn from your mistakes, you're just shit at the game and refuse to practice

Whats hard to get? Theres 2 million people of similar skill level. Thats not that hard to believe.

I never said you couldn't circumvent this issue with smart play, and yeah I did forget the range varies, But how often do you see Leo linger offstage in disadvantage. I rarely see him do anything other than make it back to stage as quickly as possible. Contrast that with Wario or the Rats or Snake or Olimar who can do whatever the fuck they want and come back.

That's why I propose a reboot of the series, with one major difference: Samus is no longer a woman, or a human for that matter. She's now a robot akin to the protag from A Robot Named fight or Environmental Station Alpha. No more ZSS in Smash, which means maybe Sakurai will focus on balancing Power Suit Samus better. Best of all, no more putrid and disgusting sex fanservice. It's a win/win.

Got elite on corrin and zelda, don't really feel like I earned it on zelda with how much easier it was than corrin, wifi cheese is real as fuck

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>Stamina match
>Cloud
>only thing you do is landing aerial into Cross Slash for big damage
>works all the time because no percent increase lol
>win

Not him but playing with bots gives You bad habits you mong. For example, level 9 bots in s4 would always airdodge if attacked them with am aerial, even if you do it right as you land so you can punish them. Literally every time. So You can get horrible habits by playing around these quirks.

yeah
that's a very rough GSP bracket, items everywhere
we lost for glory for this

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I feel like 1v1 fags act like they're the only ones who get fucked over in online. Trying to find a decent FFA or doubles with your ruleset is nearly impossible at times. Even if you do find either of those, those two gamemodes are usually even filled with even scummier players who like using Robin, Samus, or the PK kids to sit at the ledge and spam projectiles. Arenas exist but they have their own set of problems that are annoying as shit.
>Spend several minutes waiting for a game to end only for the arena to close after
>Get kicked out because some fuckhead wanted their friend to play but didn't bother to make a private arena
>Shiteating faggot tries to start the match while other players are selecting a different state or fighter
>Have to join an arena whether or not to see if items, hazards, and final smash meter are on
>Constant disconnects

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If you play this game online and think you're good you are fucking retarded

I just broke another controller because I lost 2M GPS today

You is not a proper noun so you don't need to capitalize it, my European friend

He has the ability to go pretty far or low out with a bair and make it back. That's more than the majority of the cast.

Are you, by chance, on the spectrum? I'm genuinely curious. I think you're also missing the point. Did you like Samus Returns? Because I found it mediocre by classic Metroid standards. Classic Metroid is dead, dude. Just hope that Environmental Station Alpha 2 is as good as 1 was.

You can only fuck up your playstyle against bots. Not humans. That shouldn't be something I have to say.
Bots do not behave like humans, you cannot learn how to fight humans by fighting bots. Bots do not punish bad habits, and sometimes will reward bad habits.

>NOot t mention you saying "equal chance of edgegurding" shows misunderstanding of the matchup in of itself.
I'm not saying the characters have an equal chance, just that the players do. The pika can be shit at edgeguarding and he sidebs recklessly so Joker can counter it with Tetrakarn
>Your just providing awful arguments as to why he would be broken.
This was never meant to be a measure of whether Joker was outright broken or not, it is meant to highlight a problem that occurs often in matches. The problem is that not only is there little skill involved to the advantage Joker gains, but that it is also outside of the opponent's control with little interaction for them to play around AND that the timing is often extremely inconvenient

Playing this game any more than casually is such a waste of time. Game will be dead in under two years

Learning the game with Corrin taught me that smash attacks were something you use with caution and precision. Could not have been more wrong for basically every single other character in the game.

i'm talking more in disadvantage. When edgegaurding it's a whole other story, but Grappling Hook won't save him from the blastzone the same way Bike or Pikmin Flap or Quick Attack/ Agility, hell, even Lucas' PK Thunder 2 or Bowser Jr.'s Clown Kart Dash or Falco's Phantasm (heh)

I think Samus Returns was okay, but it got ignored by everyone including Nintendo, all because she didn't get out of her suit and fellate a banana every 5 seconds. At least that's what I figured. Nintendo really has an aversion to female protagonists unless they're blatant slut bait. It's made me hate any game from them that has a sexy female in it, from Fire Emblem to Xenoblade to Bayonetta, and etc. I'll actually refuse to play these characters online, no matter how OP Sakurai makes them in future patches.

>Classic Metroid is dead, dude
Hollow Knight and ESA are at least willing to contest that.

>don't do something you enjoy because other people will enjoy something else down the road
Ok dude

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As with all fighting games. Sounds like good reason to have fun with it now then.

You fall slowly enough that if you have second jump, it's pretty fucking likely you'll make it back. Recoveries are good. People need to get better at just dunking arsene's upB though.

I think you have a complex, dude. Also, Hollow Knight and Metroid are pretty different games. If you're just dying for another, try Axiom Verge. I thought it was just okay. AM2R was pretty fucking fantastic, though.

is there a less fun feeling in this game than trying to (and of course failing to) air dodge through a ness spamming pk thunder 2 as k rool falling from above? fuck. fuck that matchup in general actually.

>if you figure you're about to go off stage.
Why would you ever go off stage with mac in the first place besides the style kill?

Not saying you can't fun but grinding mmr and tech for this party game is silly to me

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>constant disconnects
This fucks over other players as well. If a player disconnects in a match you dont gain any GSP even if you win.

This especially fucks over FFAs because if just ONE player leaves nobody is getting any GSP

>tech
>Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch

>I'm not saying the characters have an equal chance, just that the players do. The pika can be shit at edgeguarding and he sidebs recklessly so Joker can counter it with Tetrakarn
But a Pikachu at the same skill level as JOker would certainly see this risk and go for a safer Thunder Jolt or Bair, yes? Tongue-in-Cheek aside, what a fucking awful example. NO high level Pikachu edgeguards with Skull Bash outside of ramming the ledge with an active hitbox, covering any 2-Frames or ledge-snaps, which is the point Joker would have burned Arsene or Grappling Hook anyways
>This was never meant to be a measure of whether Joker was outright broken or not, it is meant to highlight a problem that occurs often in matches. The problem is that not only is there little skill involved to the advantage Joker gains, but that it is also outside of the opponent's control with little interaction for them to play around AND that the timing is often extremely inconvenient
And I don't disagree with that (mostly, I don't think the foe should have a huge modicum of control over when Arsene comes out outside of avoiding Rebel's Guard and keeping up with your output), I just don't think this a good way to convey that idea either. I've never seen Leo or ANY Joker get Arsene at a consistent percent, st least in an environment where somewhat equal ability is guaranteed. Saying "If it happens at this percent it could be problematic" isn't going to cut it.

Nobody here will believe me but I am the most fun to play against laggy Ness in smash bros history. I mean nobody rematches, but I always leave confident knowing that they had a good time.

>Pivot Boost, Attack Cancel, Snake Sliding, Desynchs, Dial Storage, Self-Stick C4, Dash Cancel, Parrying
>Not in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch

Tell that to paisy players lmao. Inb4 paisy is easier to play then ken

>things that never appear in competitive play for $500

>The best friend of Swordies, Pivot Boosting
>The reason you always see empty shothops in neutral, as well as cancelling forward movement and making approach ambiguous, Attack Cancelling
>The crux of every Lucas; combo approach, Snake Sliding
> Literally Ice Climber only advantage, Desynchs
> The reason Shulk is constantly swapping arts in hitstun and mid-combo, Dial Storage
> You kinda got me here, but how's that V-Cancelling and Rocket Jump and Super Wavedash coming along?
> You'd have to be a brainlet to not see this constantly, Dash Cancelling
> See above, Parrying
You fucking suck at Jeopardy, get off the stage

>see that im about to lose hard to a much better player
>turn off my switch so i don't lose GSP
>all i get is a gay little warning that doesn't stop me from getting back into online
SOMEBODY STOP ME

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>moron doesn't realize he's replaced by an even dumber CPU

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Uh oh sweetie it looks like you had a spasm and pressed down too many times in a row. Looks like I'm going to have nuke my internet connection then ledge stall and platform camp until seven ~in game~ minutes have passed and then unplug right before the end.

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you still lose GSP

Parrying and dash canceling aren't tech, but are the only things on the list that you'll see in a top 8.

Just because things can be done, doesn't mean they're going to be worth learning or implemented in competitive play. Look at the amount of things that exist in Melee, Brawl, and 4 that never appear in competitive play, because the majority of tech is either not useful or not worth implementing for the reward because its sub-optimal.

There's a reason bidou tech never caught on in Sm4sh, it, like that list, was just something vaguely interesting but not worth using in any productive way when easier ways to win existed. The secret to tech is that if it's not absolutely vital to be competitive, it's not going to be used. There's a reason why every top player knows how to wavedash and L-cancel in Melee, but not every top player knows how to do any of these character specific techniques even if they play the character. One is required to be competitive and the other is not.

5mil

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I wouldn’t leave if the shitty ranking system wasn’t in place. But as it stands if I were to stay in a match and learn to get better fighting someone that’s better at the game than me my GSP will sink to the shitter. I’ll be stuck fighting with fuckers with shitty rules for le troll xd.

Are you kidding me? Mr. E. and ProtoBanHam abuse Pivot Boost with their Lucinas all the time
Also yes they are, just because they were implemented on purpose doesn't make them not tech. L-Cancelling was mentioned in 64's tips, is it not Tech? Hitstun Cancelling is detrimental to combos and implemented on purpose, is it not tech? because most Pros refer to it as such. Just because Wavedash was added to PM, does that make it not tech?

This. Both Sm4sh and Ult are full of things that will never be used because they're simply not required for the win condition of the game. It's just dominant strategy of game theory, anything extraneous won't be used and the most powerful thing will. No one's going to bother with any of that shit if all it takes to win is good fundamentals with Joker or other top tier.

This thread turned gay as fuck.

Read this in a villain voice.

Get ganon in an out of elite easy but it's not so easy with secondaries like DK falcon Bowser or Ridley. I always get so close just to meet a ness player.
Should be easy to get into elite once I master gimping nesses

ahem, fuck Ness, fuck Jokers, fuck Young Links and fuck Captain Falcons

How 2 beat Wolf as Zelda ?

>fuck captain falcon
>the most entertaining character to fight in smash
the shittiest of tastes

The GSP system bounces people like fucking crazy, so there's no consistency. Aside from Chrom players being non-stop aerial spamming retards at any rank

redditor.

Captain Falcon is redpilled. Youre probably some faggy Zelda or Lucario

Hit him more often than he hits you.

Mongoloid fishing for knees and spikes while running head first into smash attacks is only fun for a while before it starts to feel pathetic. Like I'm kicking the legs of a puppy learning to walk.

retarded

Try playing against a good CF next time

oof, struck a chord i see

>3.3 with Dr. Mario
>probably due to combination of poor skill and high risk low reward main

>calls him a simple word; retarded without any aggression
>"U MAD BRO? xD LOOK IVE MADE HIM MADE GUYSS!! DO I FIT IN YET?"
>"oof"
I think it's time for you to log off

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you sound troubled. i hope you calm down soon, being this upset isn't a good thing for your mental health.

ok retard

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Captain Falcon mains are all meme spouting retards who think they are hot shit for playing the "fast racecar man". And your posts proved me right

name one character in a sea of annoying shitters thats fun to play against in this game

Nigga falcon self congratulates cuz you’re too busy spitting teeth out your bloody mouth to bitterly mutter GG

Who do you play queero I could use a laff

Who needs a fun, likeable personality when you can fake it with pink falcon instead?

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Get a smashbox and be consistant forever.

...

How is this game with the pro controller compared to the gamecube controller?

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You have to be reading the other player/know the matchup. If they go into shield often, easy grab. They whiff? Grab. Chase down after a roll extravaganza? Grab.

Dorf is interesting because he’s broken though

Can someone give me Richter tips? Been trying to learn him since day one, and kind of understand him, but understanding some key things might help me some more.

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Play the Belmonts like you would play a grappler in a traditional fighter.

Your whole gameplan is just getting the opponent to jump all the time to try to get through the bullshit wall, then using your massive aerial range advantage to keep whipping them outta the air in frustrating fashion for neutral till they're pushed offstage and can be ledgetrapped.

Practice sets ups with the cross like down-tilt into a returning cross above you and your opponent or back throw into a returning cross. Whip aerials are good for spacing in combination with projectiles like the cross. Your tilts and aerials do have a precise hitbox that only cover the tip of your whip so keep that in mind when throwing them out. Learn how properly space axe throws and holy water by jumping and changing the trajectory of your throw. There are also several kill set ups you can get with holy water or the cross.
tl;dr version
>throwing out the cross to rack up damage with combos
>spacing your whip
>properly spacing your projectiles
>learn best kill options
and what he said

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I meant going off stage as in you know you're about to get launched so don't immediately react and jump after getting hit.

I don't have anything to add to this, that walk cycle just physically pains me

Take this for use in times of need, friend

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Global Smash Power is the worst ranking system in history, prove me wrong.

i miss the duck hunt smash 4 days, where nobody fucking knew how to fight him. whenever you used the wild gunman, they'd always shield, perfect for trick shot grabs (and hitting the can with the gunman by predicting which gunman would appear). it seems everyone has figured them out.

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Over 5 mil, what gives me trouble are the random lagger like usual. Occasionally, I'll find good players with above average connections.

Thanks CVbro. Have this in return.

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shield whenever they jump. they switch it up on the last stock.

i'm elite with yoshi. almost there with chrom too. but might just play lucina instead. chrom has some polarizing matchups that just suck.

Meta Knight plays like shit online
Still fun though

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Got Link to elite first, then Samus and Dark Samus. Kirby and Ganon are getting close.