Smash Bros is/isn't a fighting game

that weird one in black and white for the wii

Melee mode in the Japanese release was literally called Battle Royale.

Japanese Melee had the dude say Battle Royal

It is. Sure, it's more of a chaotic party-oriented game (nothing against competitive anons), but at the end of the day, a casualized, chaotic FPS would still be an FPS, so why wouldn't a casualized, chaotic fighting game be a fighting game? Really, I don't get the point of this dumb meme argument. I play SF with friends, sometimes it's smash, sometimes it's MvC.

This is how nu-Yea Forums defines fighting games. "If it has fighting, it is a fighting game."

But when people speak of fighting games aka traditional fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken etc. they don't mean games like Smash, WWE games, Punch-Out etc.

People who call Smash a fighting-fighting game only show their inexperience in the genre.

Fighting = Boxing
Smash = Sumo Wrestling

Interesting you chose Ryu for your image, since smash Ryu controls worse than any other Ryu, if you're actually comparing it to fighting games.

I'm willing to say smash is a fighting game, it's just a really shitty one. Fun to play since it's potentially 4-8 players, and because of franchise fan service. But a lot of dumb things are fun if you're playing with friends, like the original Conker multiplayer on N64.

I Buy every fighting Game on the Market, but i dont own Smash

That must mean ITS Not a fighting game

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"Fighting game" is a very broad term that can be applied to many games. 2D, 3D, Arena, etc. Smash Bros is just one of them but in it's own niche. Tom and Jerry in War of the Whiskers is a fighting game, Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 is a fighting game. Super Smash Bros. Is a fighting game. Just very different compared to your usual fighters.

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Mordhau

It’s more of a fighting game than any other genre.
>inb4 party game
Party game is a vidya genre as much as Christian music is a musical genre. It’s a descriptor because it tells you nothing beyond “it’s intended to be played at parties.”

Smash is more of a sports game than a fighting game. In the pic related even the creator says so.

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does that mean i can smash people in real life?

WWE is peak fighting games. Cope.

I wouldn't describe it as one, but it doesn't matter anyway. Smash is Smash, it's not going to become something else if you classify it into one genre or another.

We all know the crux of thr argument is "what is a fighting game?" If you assert games HAVE to be a traditional 2d fighter with combo inputs, then Smash does not pass. I would argue this is not the only criterea that can define a fighting game, and smash is a fighter, but that is my opinion. I do not have an umbrella definition I have formed myself to propose what should define a fighting game, but for reference I believe Powerstone would constitute as an untraditional fighter.

And what is boxing, wrestling, UFC, or MMA? Sports and fighting are not mutually exclusive.

In the pic it is literally said it is not a fighting game but has a similar nature to sports games. The creator refers to traditional fighting games with the term "fighting game" as anyone understanding the genre would.

Sports games are games where you play a sport that have defined rulesets based on (but doesnt have to follow to a T) professional established leagues. Mario Strikers is a soccer sports game, NBA Ballerz is a Basketball game. What sport is Smash based on?

Baseball.

You even have a baseball bat in it. Instead of the bat, you shoot with other moves.

When is etika going to react to samurai show down anyway?

>nu-Yea Forums defines things
Nah man. One, this shit has always been this way here. Yea Forums is notoriously casual when it comes to anything competitive and as a whole doesn't have any sort of informed opinion about FGC, fighting games, Smash, or anything. Second, the term "fighting game" is about the same kind of term as "RPG" or "Action game". Even within the scope of "fighting game", the differences between the major setpieces have caused further need for clarification (anime fighters, 3D fighters, Capcom/SFII+clones, etc). It's pedantic nonsense to obsess over what is meaningless.

What's actually important is overlap of communities. By and large we live in the time of the most overlap between the communities. The format of how tournaments run are all but congruous and thus they make good bedfellows even if the communities are more distinct than, say, SF vs GG. Tournaments like CEO show there is a place for both of them to enjoy the fruits of the others' labors in establishing a more stable presence. Need I remind anyone that sponsored tournaments is still relatively young/recent compared to all of the grass roots involvements and they still largely function off of those. It is silly to try and deride anything besides any of these communities giving over control to corporate masters instead of doing what's best for the communities themselves.

And ignore stream monsters.

It is.

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He's also called it a fighting game, so who cares

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What is stopping Smash from being a hybrid genre game, and one of those genres is a fighting game?

Daily reminder: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" - tim sweeny
Who gives a shit about genres and categories.

He only calls it a fighting game when he does not want to question his listeners.

>the term "fighting game" is about the same kind of term as "RPG" or "Action game". Even within the scope of "fighting game", the differences between the major setpieces have caused further need for clarification (anime fighters, 3D fighters, Capcom/SFII+clones, etc). It's pedantic nonsense to obsess over what is meaningless.
This
Also this
I feel all this fret over what genre it is is pointless tbqh.

It's not a fighting game, but that doesn't mean it isn't a game with a valid competitive scene.

The real genre of Smash is a "platform fighter," sharing the genre with Brawlhalla.

Street fighter fags

>Tom and Jerry in War of the Whiskers
the absolute chaddest of taste

He's also super fucking inconsistent and has said things like he wants to make a Smash title that isn't about winning or losing. I don't get why people give him any credit besides being relatively faithful to source material/spirit to give reasonable amounts of fan service. HAL clearly made the best decisions for Smash and once they were gone it's been a struggle since.

So we should listen to one instance, but not the other? And your reasoning is because it's just lip service only in those specific occasions?
I'm partial to the idea that Sakurai cannot be trusted to maintain opinions.
>see: Ridley is too big

Reminder that if you think Smash isn't a fighting game then you must also think that pic related isn't a racing game
It's a party fighter, "party game" isn't a genre unless you think Mario Kart, Mario Party, Smash Bros., and You Don't Know Jack play similarly

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>we should listen to one instance, but not the other?
Everytime he explains the design philosophy of Smash, he says it was never designed to be a fighting game. But there are so many retards out there who call Smash a fighting game "because it has punching and kicking in it" that he just rolls with it for marketing reasons.

Even your standard GameStop employee is too dumb to know the difference between fighting games and platform fighters, wrestling games etc.

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It's a fighting game, just not a conventional one

He literally explains there that he didn't want to use the phrase because of the type of mentality seen in this thread.
>Oh if it doesn't have X it isn't REALLY...
He also makes the claim that lots of people prefer Brawl (with the implication being there for the gameplay) so you can choose to value his opinion, but it's worthless. You're also embracing the fallacy that he alone designed and made Smash. He did not.

He also literally says "I like to think of Smash as a four-player battle royal action game." He just explains he did not wish to limit himself to the genre of fighting games which in turn molded it into a non-fighting game.

Smash Bros. is a game that involves fighting, so it is a fighting game.

However the phrase "Fighting Game" is often used to refer to what could be more accurately described as a "Traditional Fighting Game", that is a game that typically involves two players in a head to head with limited health bars, facing each other in fights. Other common elements include a round based system, a tiered attack system (normal, special, super) etc.

Smash is not a Traditional Fighting Game. It is however a fighting game.

That Jojo battle royale game

>Smash Bros. is a game that involves fighting, so it is a fighting game

So Mass Effect is a fighting game? Max Payne is a fighting game? GTA is a fighting game? Double Dragon is a fighting game?

>Confrontation = fighting

Are you really incapable of understanding a simple concept?
>I do not want to be constrained by notions of what a label entails, so I'll make a concept instead
>Wow, look at how you can change "the idea" when you do that

And once again, let's just assume you are 100% correct in your interpretation. First, he isn't the sole creator of the series. Second, his opinions are fucking worthless. In that same interview he defends adding tripping to brawl by saying it is more engaging for the player.

Double Dragon 1 for the NES had a fighting game mode, yes. There's also the legit Double Dragon fighting game on the Neo Geo Pocket

it's not a traditional 2-d fighting game, it's a platform fighting game.

You fight in all of those games. You can punch in all of them.

But they're not brawlers

Everything suggests it is not a fighting game. When you know how fighting games work and play Smash, you immediately know you are not playing an actual fighting game. Then the creator says it was not made to be one either. A lot of people share this feeling.

A person needs to be utterly stupid to believe otherwise.

more like bing bing wahoo fighter/racing game

Smash is a fighting game, but it isn't the same kind of fighting game as Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Blazblue, etc. Just like anime fighters are considered different from your MKs and shit, Smash is different from "traditional" fighting games. It's closer to sumo wrestling than normal wrestling/boxing.

Who fucking cares if it's a fighting game or not? Stop defining video games entirely by genre.

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What do you mean? You can brawl random people in GTA. In online mode, you can even have competitive street brawl matches.

That's not the focus of the game.

>platform fighting game
This has always been how I see it, as a sub-genre of fighting games, same with games like Outfoxies, Battle Stadium DON, Jump Super/Ultimate Stars, TV Dream Mix and so on.

But it is not the focus in Smash either where you throw pokéballs and jump around like a goof.

Depends on a base level yes in a lot of ways no.

If Smash is a Fighting Game then so is Dark Souls PVP a lot of the same things are being tested by both games and in fighting games at a competitive level.

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They're just powerups, like Rage Art in Tekken

You are right, the real focus is throwing characters into the sky. That is not brawling but some weird human rocket experimenting.

Smash Bros is a platform fighter designed to be played at parties.

A platform fighter is a genre that is a mix between a platformer and a fighter.

It's sumo wrestling, basically.

I'd say it's a sub-class like platform fighter, there's a lot of crossover in fundamentals

royal rumble in wrestling

EVERY character in Tekken is pre-possesed with the ability to rage art, and it takes tact to know how to evade it/use it effectively if we're talking even modestly skilled players.

Items in Smash are completely luck based and serve only as fun little toys rather than devices to optimize strategy.

>using items
The vast majority of smash fans play items off either 1v1 or 4 player

With guns and pokéballs.

>real focus is throwing characters into the sky
Ring-out victories exist in many other fighting games besides smash

Actually, the vast majority of Smash fans are children and teenagers who just have fun and play with items on.

Smash sold 10+ million copies and has a miniscule competitive scene compared to that.

I imagine if more similar games with that style were more popular this wouldn't even be a "debate". The mental gymnastics some people go through like are amazing.

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>Actually, the vast majority of Smash fans are children and teenagers who just have fun and play with items on
You do know you can go to game lobbies right now and see that this is false. 8 out if every 10 4v4 lobbies are 3 stock no items, and 9 out of 10 1v1 lobbies are no items. Also, I've almost never played with anyone on chat who was a squeaker or even young teens.

That's because 99% of Smash players ignore multiplayer altogether. The focus lies in the single-player content and playing with friends at parties.

literally wrong

Whenever my casual friends play, they INSIST on items and hazards off. Two of my friends are the most normie college girls I've ever met in my life (the "OH MY GODDD YASSS BITCH SLAY" type, not gamers in the slightest) and they had an item match, hated everything about it, and went straight back to 3 stock, 7 minutes on tri plat stages

It doesn't play like a traditional fighting game, but call it a platform fighter or whatever the fuck. It's a fighter.

/thread

What suggests that Smash isn't a fighting game exactly?

People are too busy catching STDs, getting drunk, and smoking weed at parties to bother with a children's bing bing wahoo game.

Cool source

So I guess dark souls is a fighting game too since it’s a game you can fight in? You absolute fucking buffoon

Lmao, you should've been at the end of year party I threw in June

200+ college students, 30-40 of which were all getting fucked up and huddling around my TV for some Ultimate and having a blast

I'm not saying traditional fighting games don't have more depth, but it's funny when people consider Smash more casual when in regular fighting games people just mash buttons and can pull some moves off and feel content, but if you try that in smash you just do nonsense, and the first time people play they usually jump off the level and don't know how to get back up.

Nice LARP

Not everybody here is an incel loser user, stop projecting

>end of year party
>June
Are you old enough to post here?

It doesn't follow normal fighting game rules therefore it's not a fighting game, it doesn't have life bars, special inputs or the physics of a standard fighting game, you cannot kill yourself in a standard fighting game, a bomb will not spawn from the air and kill you in a standard fighting game, you do not die in a standard fighting game because the stage suddenly moved

Now some retard will argue that some fighting games have ring out and as such they are EXACTLY the same as smash Bros because both involve falling out from a platform despite ignoring all the other huge giant difference, these idiots don't care about facts and only want to argue which is how this thread will reach 500 replies

Even then it doesn't really matter if smash is a fighting game or not, the only reason people care is because fighting game evoke professional shit like 3rd strike or blazblue and they are serious business for serious people and party game are "lol randumb I steal all the stars from u" Mario party tier

At least I don't feel the need to LARP in order to gain clout among a group of "incels" as you call them.

>Even then it doesn't really matter if smash is a fighting game or not
You're right. It is a fighting game though and your reasons why it isn't are garbage

>genres develop over time
>autists can't comprehend this

Woah...

The concept of genre only exists as a result of mental weakness. It's useless outside of an extremely general descriptor.

Most basic and universal rule of a fighting game design:
>A match is composed of a set of rounds, when one player loose all his life, he loose a round, the winner is the one who win the majority of the rounds
>SMASH: % instead of life points, can only kill by projection, life stocks
For me, Smash is a fighting game, but it's still really different than a traditional one, exatly like those arena fighters

This is correct.

I am known as "that weird dude who plays smash" and I get invited to BBQ's, parties and different houses all the time to play with people. Usually these get-together's are filled 20-30 something year old that have decent jobs that require 50+ work weeks so during the weekend they all wanna get drunk and stoned and pretend to be a kid again. That said, only a few times have people used items, most people prefer to have them off. Its not the same anymore like in the 64, and melee days. Items are fucking weird now and just don't make any sense. Casual players who only have time to play once or twice a week just don't like them because they don't know what the fuck they do.

Just a few examples
>Baseball you throw just straight up disappears and re-appears 2 seconds later for no reason.
>Rage blaster is just another gun that does damage kinda
>Pokemon that no one is familiar with
>Ore club that shoots wind for some reason throws people off because it has no indicator it would create tornado's
>Everyone usually ignores healing field cause they are afraid it will blow them up or some shit
>Ramblin Mushroom dosen't make strong enough aesthetic changes to indicate your controls are fucked especially in a FFA 4 player match.
>Smash ball just ruins fights because people immediately are forced to drop what they are doing and get the smash ball
>Getting sucked into a black hole usually results in nothing 90% of the time and sucks shit.

These items don't convey what they fucking do at all and casual players who are unfamiliar with the source material or who just wanna play smash like "the good ole" days just turn em off because from a design standpoint they are just fucking garbage.

One time at a cookout they had smash set up outside for 8 people as the main activity and people made a game where if a trophy or pokemon popped up and you didn't know where the fuck it was from you had to drink to get everyone warmed up for the later drinking games

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It's a platform fighter, basically in it's own niche of the the fighting genre as essentially what said

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>really different than a traditional one, exatly like those arena fighters
That's the conclusion any reasonable people would have, in the same way games like Bushido Blade have rules that derive from regular fighting games but are still considered as such, but this is Yea Forums where having the same pointless discussion over and over again is encouraged.

>One time at a cookout they had smash set up outside for 8 people as the main activity and people made a game where if a trophy or pokemon popped up and you didn't know where the fuck it was from you had to drink to get everyone warmed up for the later drinking games
Normalfags are a mistake.

defining what is and isn't is pure autism

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Imagine reading this and getting mad. Not that guy but I also hosted a party similar to this with a projector onto two bed sheets in our back yard. Stay mad

Smash is not a fighting game but can still be treated as competitive gaming. It doesn't have the things that make fighting games what they are but they do have gameplay that invites competition and skill. Also the best game to play with items on was ironically melee. Sm4sh's and ultimate's items are overpowered and too chaotic. Dont remember brawls.

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fighting game as a whole is a broad term. if we're talking street fighter and MK, those are tournament fighting games.
Smash, Rivals of Aether, Stick Fight and such are platform fighters.
WWE games are wrestling fighting games.
Tekken, Soul Calibur and DoA are 3d fighting games.
they're all fighting games. where opponents fight each other and one shall stand and one or more shall fall. easy

>it’s not a fighting game because it isn’t a clone of street fighter

This.

Hey there, everybody.
This is Ryu from Streets™.
Did you know?
My favorite things are:
>Jumping into Light Fierce
>Stale bread
>Water without any ice
>The newest season of The Simpsons
>And dirt.

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It's an exaltation of ignorance. That's gay as fuck dude.

What upsets you user the lack of knowledge on vidya games or the fact grown adults like to enjoy alcohol on the weekend?

Both.

Brawl was all right items wise. Assist trophies weren't that effective and there weren't a lot of instakill pokemon. Shit started getting ridiculous when they started adding strong as fuck summon items and multiple guaranteed kill items. I don't get how anyone enjoys playing Ultimate with items on. I find it genuinely unfun with how many bullshit items there are and how much more often they spawn.

>He doesn't enjoy 8-man smash with his friends
Competitive fags are a mistake

>needing 7 people to appreciate a game's mechanics

Minecraft hunger games you inane faggot

Tekken has items, does that make it not a fighting game?

I don't need them, I want them there. I like having fun with friends. Foreign concept to """""""competitive""""""" smashfags.

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>PRIMARILY on hand-to-hand combat
elite smash tells me otherwise

Those same people don't know 90% of the roster or stages, but that doesn't seem to bother them in your anecdote. I play with young kids and casuals at times as well, and most either don't have a preference, or like items. Also, it seems like your friends have disabilities in the mental department, since after a single time seeing something one would know what it does.

>Pokemon that no one is familiar with
All of them, more than likely. Not hard to see what it does when it is fucking doing it. "Wow, Bill, that rat thing is shooting electricity in all directions. WHAT DO YOU SUPPOSE IT DOES!?"
>Rage blaster is just another gun that does damage kinda
You're idiots. All of you.
>Ore club that shoots wind for some reason throws people off because it has no indicator it would create tornado's
It's almost like it comes from a videogame like 99% of what is in Smash, and it does that in the game it comes from. And of course, after seeing it happen once, one would know that for the rest of their lives unless they have memory issues. My fucking 7 and 8 year old step-siblings know how it works, I'm sure your "adult" friends can piece it together after a few times.

I'm curious as to how the bumper or remote mine "make more sense" than the steel diver gun or beehive. Or even how the old pokemon they don't know make more sense than the new ones they don't know.

The funny part is you abstain from alcohol and parties not because you are a responsible and upstanding citizen, but because you are an angry lonely loser who wants to gatekeep from others what you can't have yourself

it sure isn't a tradtional 2d fighter but has enough concepts pulled from the fighting game genre to be considered its own subgenre of fighting game

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>MUH MINEYCRAFTA MINIGAME

Nope. Smash is also fun 1v1, 4v4, and 2v2 teams lol

Smash is a fighting game, but that doesn't mean it's designed to be competitive.

If you think 'Platform fighter' is a real genre you lose all credibility.

>Having friends.
Also I actually do prefer casual to competitive I just hate the mindset.

Genre is unironically a social construct. It's real because people are talking about it.

Not that user, but I use it and I don't even like Smash.

If you put the Smash version of Ryu in SF he'd be the most busted character in the game by a wide margin.

>Floaty
>Easy to Anti-Air
Nah, not so sure.

>shaku in SF
jesus christ

I can think of plenty of games besides that could fight under that category, and I think at least 5 of them are based off One Piece.

the arena fighter genre is called what it is due to its similarities to fightan games combined with its own unique mechanics that a lot of arena fighters share
in the same way smash used to be the only game that was like smash, but enough games (rivals of aether, brawlhalla, and slapcity, etc) have come up and solidified both the similarities to traditional fightan and the unique mechanics that make the platform fighter genre what it is
if you think new genres cant be made by reimagining old ones you're part of whats holding vidya back desu

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based akuma chad who knows what he's talking about

I just turn the bullshit items off, certain items like the launch star, the baseball, all the swords are fun to use.

fast falling, auto imputs, dodging, running, seems pretty busted to me

>opponent gets the wind turbine thing
>I'm playing Incineroar
guess I'll just die

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Don't forget about similar games that have existed around the Melee era.

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If a game is built around rock, paper, scissors it's a fighting game.
Smash has that in the attacks beat throws which beat shields which beat attacks which beat throws etc etc
That's fundamentally what makes a fighting game a fighting game.

>gameplay main focus is pvp by selecting different characters each with their own movesets and knocking out the other player by attacking them in real time
>durff not fighting game because it doesn't follow muh traditional mechanics

Wow OP I guess Super Mario 64 isn't a platformer because it's 3D.

You seem quite angry I didn't mean to rustle your jimmies, you should acquire thicker skin! This is the internet you know!

>Those same people don't know 90% of the roster or stages, but that doesn't seem to bother them in your anecdote.

2000 character limit lol but yes that is also a issue oh butthurt one.
>Those same people don't know 90% of the roster or stages, but that doesn't seem to bother them in your anecdote
>Bumper
Looks like a pinball bumper, sans when it is sideways.
>remote mine
actually I hated that item and it still sucks here so yeah
> My fucking 7 and 8 year old step-siblings know how it works
Its like one group of people dosen't have time for that shit and the other one are a bunch of jobless children who are soaking up information like a sponge because they are clean slates.

I am sorry about my reply please go outside and have sex. also dont cry from this or else I will feel really bad bye bye

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just get the grapes you silly fox