ITT:

>Character that gets rewarded for being outplayed
These shitty gimmicks are the worst.

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Only shitters are crying about Joker.

And you'll be crying like a bitch in the next patch dumb spic.

You fucks can't even spell Arsen right

What? Isn’t he like mid tier?

Where the fuck did you hear that? On Yea Forums? Fucking dumbass.

>joker
>overpowered
MK Leo makes characters look overpowered. He picks up Ike, people complain about Ike. He picks Lucina, suddenly people start bitching about her three times more then they usually do. And now people legit think Joker is straight-up broken. Leo is the ONLY top level joker. No one else plays him at a world-class level

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By overpowered, do you mean like lorewise or gameplay?

>X-Factor got added to Smash
wew

That’s what people were saying at the start. Glad to see he’s a good pick actually.

Are you a fucking retard?
Don't post in Smash threads again you fucking shitter.

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Get rid of the reward by continuing to outplay him. Arsene goes away faster when Joker gets hit while he's out

Wishes plays joker as well, and he got 11th in the same tournament. Face it, it's only a matter of time until we start seeing Joker dittos in grand finals.

>competitively viable DLC character
>PAY TO WIN
>competitively nonviable DLC character
>WASTE OF MONEY

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>great final
>first thing people want to do is complain about the game

Smashers make me mad

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*9th

Only thing I don't like about joker are both forms of his counter

Go on. Cough up the six dollars, you DO want to win at Smash right?

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Leo is still just miles better than anyone else, as we can see by his continued dominance. Wishes is pretty damn good, but Joker fits Leo like a glove.
And besides, that's only 2 of one character. Nothing Ultimate hasn't seen before. It's nowhere close to Smash 4 Bayo

What tier do you think this guy will be?

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i'd give him 6 dollars to let me smell him

If what Sakurai said in his interview was right and this character uses a random set of spells every time he opens the menu then he'll be mid tier at best. Randomness fucks over the viability of a character.

it depends entirely on how fast he can get his spells out and how Mp recovers. How those 2 attributes behave can make the difference between high tier and trash

Just get gud marss no need to hide your seetheness on Yea Forums

Poor word choice. There's no way he has more than 12 fucking specials. There are four spells per special.

peach?

That would be 16 specials though. The ones we have seen so far seem to be:
>Sizzle
>Snooze
>Oomph
>Psyche Up
>Kaclang
>Kamikazee
>Bounce
>Zoom
>Swoosh
>Frizzle
>Zap
>Kacrackle Slash

So that's 12 we've seen already.

Peach's turnips aren't the cornerstone of her moveset. Hero's entire character is about spells and if that is randomized then he's fucked.

Oh my fuck Hero really is going to be RNG trash isn't he?

I don't think it's RNG. I think the window we saw in the trailer is neutral B and will always be neutral B. Up B will have Swoosh and Zoom, as well as 2 we haven't seen, etc. There is also likely one down B and one Side B we haven't seen. Chances are the word they meant to use wasn't random, but miscellaneous.

He would literally be unusable in tournaments if that was the case.

On the flipside, he would be fairly fun casually.

With that frame data, a projectile dot, speed, recovery, and power of Ganondorf? You're an idiot and anyone who thinks as you are too.

peach's turnips are a cornerstone of her gameplan but default turnips are already absurdly strong. pulling a better turnip is just icing on the cake.

lucario and joker both have x-factor in smash

Seems more like a more elaborate version of Shulk.

God I want Joker to fuck me in the ass.

Hopefully decent but not broken so you nave retards tier whoring

I just watched a match where this guy should have lost to Pokemon trainer. I don't think this character needs to be banned. People just need to play better.

come over

Not that user but that's why the RNG doesn't really hurt her, you either get a normal turnip or something better than a normal turnip, but either way you're either gonna try to gimp or follow up with whatever you pull. The strategy doesn't change, just your specific follow up option after you throw it. Worst case scenario, you get a Bob-omb reflected back at you but that's just reflector jank in general.

It's just a fact. Keep outplaying him, he loses Arsene

If you mean lorewise, Joker (or Ren) has a number of Persona characters who are supposedly more powerful than him. That's not counting the shitty excuse of an ending P5 had, though, the plot bullet Satanael had, whatever it was called that had the power of the seven deadly sins.

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Would you say this is healthy character diversity?

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I don't really care about his counters, it's his neutral B greatly nullifying any chance to take advantage of his vertical disadvantage that gets my goat. That shit's actually damn hard to punish. Side B and bair are also surprisingly good.

>It's a "beat the shit out of your opponent only for him to go into Super Mode and kick your ass in two hits" level
>It's a "beat the shit out of your opponent only for him to get his unblockable OHKO move and kill you at 20% because you fucked up a dodge" level
>It's a "beat the shit out of your opponent but he has limit now so on top of the speed boost he has access to four different super moves that you now have to play around as a reward for him getting his ass kicked" level

The only character that has a decent comeback mechanic is Lucario and that's because his is strictly self-damage-based and can backfire enormously so you have to play with a constant risk of instant death if you get caught. At the very least they learned how stupid it is for these characters to just get a free super mode that can't be turned off and be able to camp with it and force bad approaches and the like for as long as they want.

Attached: Comeback Mechanics.png (674x654, 20K)

Literally what am I looking at?

>outplay the far superior characer
Again, eat shit my dude.

Character frequency at CEO.

Kirb with the manado arts is fucking terrifying and fun as hell

Why zss? She doesnt seem very good in my opinion, what do others see in here?

I don't want Banjo to be broken. I'd be fine with him being mid-tier.

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She's kinda like Sheik but with actual kill options and jank setups.

Banjo will be atleast decent if kazooie doesnt have a hurt box and is simply a disjoint

dumb barafag

he most likely will be and wont even get higher with updates

now DQ man on the other hand will be broken as hell

still think that sakuri wants smash to burn and is just filling it with a rough mixture of bullshit and fan service to make a buck before he bows out

I'd cough up 6 dollars to destroy his boypussy.

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use your brain
If Joker has Arsene, that means you hit him a bunch of times.
Joker's frame data and overall defence is unchanged, which means you can continue doing exactly what you were doing before and it will work just fine.
On top of that, his Wings of Rebellion is actually more vulnerable than the grappling hook thanks to being slower, more linear, and easier to two frame. You saw Marss stomp Leo out of it, and that never happened ONCE against the grappling hook. Punishing the window of vulnerability isn't that hard.
Nothing is unbeatable in this game

im taking him to evo 2020 user. just forr you

>outplay the far superior character.
Dude, Marss's Captain Falcon pretty much showed Joker's weaknesses.
WITH A CHARACTER HE USED IN FRIENDLIES.
Come the fuck on, mate.

>It's a "beat the shit out of your opponent only for him to get his unblockable OHKO move and kill you at 20% because you fucked up a dodge" level
Are you seriously suggesting Little Mac is as ridiculous as Cloud and Joker?

banjo is gonna be bottom 10. dude seems clunky

>Ultimate cloud
>"ridiculous"
Stop pretending like he didn't get nerfed to hell and back from 4

Mistranslation, he meant they used a selection of random spells when choosing what to give him, the menues are set in stone

His movement isn't necessarily the same because ALL of his specials change. With Arsene he now has a MUCH more powerful side B, MUCH more aggressive neutral B, and an actual counter that's basically Palutena's but with kill potential. Arsene Joker's neutral pressure are considerably better, meaning he doesn't have to play the same as before.

He just has a special menu for each special. We saw him go into his thinking pose when using zoom, which is definitely a recovery.

His specials have absolutely nothing to so with how he moves.
Having Arsene around definitely improves his offence and punish game, but it doesn't make it easier to start getting into it. Keep him on the defensive like you did when you hit him enough to get him Arsene, and you won't be getting demolished by him.
The improved projectile is pretty damn good, but it's not difficult to avoid. It only goes at one angle and a set distance and has a decent amount of startup. It can't be spammed without becoming easily punishable.
And the new counter, whatever. You could count the amount of times Leo countered in the entire grand finals on one hand. Counters are never a big deal

>mkleo
>outplayed
In what universe?

Didn’t Compso have the most dangerous enemy debuffs of all standard Vivosaurs, almost comparable to Dynal and Raptin?

Based.

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It's spelled Arsene, retard.

>Joker
>Overpowered
Just fucking shoot him when he's a powerless teenage boy half the time, what's so damn hard about that?

Comeback mechanics areBAD FUCKING DESIGN. Characters with them can go to hell

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When Bayo first came out, she wasnt winning jack shit, let alone having multiple in top 16. Joker in one month is how Bayo was half a year later.

Dude he's easily the worst character on the roster. He's all recycled moves.

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Can we agree that, while Joker is not broken by any means, he could stand to get some minor nerfs?

He's neither "100% BROKEN NERF HIM INTO THE GROUND" nor "TOTALLY 100% PERFECT AND ANY CHANGES ARE AN ABHORRENT SIN".

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it's spelled Arcene, retard

>Keep him on the defensive like you did when you hit him enough to get him Arsene, and you won't be getting demolished by him.
Regular Joker has a lot more reason to play defensively. He's fast, but not terribly strong. Arsene Joker buffs his moves so much, on top of the meter timer ticking, and now he's far more compelled to go hard while he can. It's not as easy to just keep Arsene Joker on the defensive, he'll be looking for ANY chance to push your shit in and take advantage because he kinda has to. That in and of itself is its own problem on his end, you could condition him to be too reckless by playing a bit more defensively yourself, but it's kinda hard to keep Arsene Joker scared, not with both speed AND power of that magnitude and a limited time to make use of it.

>Counters are never a big deal
They're a good read/conditioning tool. Either your opponent has to respect that you have the option to some degree or you can get them so comfortable in their pressure that you can start reading them for a counter. They're never useless, you just have to know HOW to use them.

Decent sized nerfs to Joker and Arsene meter, Arsene himself gets the big nerfs.

no, it was 11. Hero has a charging mechanic in addition to the mana bar and specials menu, so the longer they hold the spell the stronger it gets. Sizzle and frizzle were the same spell at different charge levels, and if you watch the reveal trailer you can see him casting a faster/weaker version of zap when erdrick and the luminary are juggling people.

They're going to be fucking fun to learn though with a toolkit like that.

You tell them scrubs dawg. Our guy ain't no stupid bullshit rewarded for getting hit 3 times with the power of Ganondorf! Lol at dem bitches amarite? Like GIT GUDS!

He is perfectly balanced, just get good.

If you lost to Joker you fucking deserved it. Nothing about him is overpowered or gimmicky in the slightest. He has to work to get kills and he doesn't get Arsene for free. Y'all are just mad as fuck that he dicked your waifus with his BCC.

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yeah, i guess having Arsene around would change Joker's gameplan. Both players would have to adapt on the fly when the meter's full.
I guess this is just a case of Leo mastering this adaptation on his end before anyone else can master it against him.

It's spelled Arsen, retard

>Letting him survive long enough to get Arsene
You're trash

he gets arsen just by existing.

the meter does not fill over time. Only by getting hit or with Rebel's Guard

If you let him get Arsene it's 100% your fault. Any competent Smash player can kill Joker before he gets enough meter to summon Arsene. Just admit that you're garbage at the game, it's okay user.

unironically, you are a brainlet. At worst Joker needs some minor nerfs to the accumulation of his rebellion gauge from taking raw damage so he actually needs to use his counter more, outside of that he is fine.

If he goes into super mode, just hit him. He loses upwards of 5 seconds from his 30 second super mode when you hit him and stringing 3-4 hits on him is just fucking lethal, ends his mode instantly.

He's weaker than the likes of ZSS without Arsen, and can be shut down when he does have it since he'll be at 100% or damn close. How hard is it for you to kill someone like that, jesus.

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Joker doesn't need nerfs at all. He's not top tier and he loses to more characters than he beats.

you're stupid if you think joker loses to more characters then he beats

I hate the retards that post these threads after every tournament. They do it with every single character, I'm pretty sure the text is the same and they just change the image
On topic, why the fuck are people besides the meme OP complaining about Joker (previously Ike and Lucina)? Do you fight MKleo online constantly or something? You're not a tournament player, why does this bother you so much? You probably don't even play the game

>lmao just hit him bro
The absolute fucking state of Yea Forums

>Do you fight MKleo online constantly or something?
Yes I do fuck you.

youtube.com/watch?v=bmTVCtsKSeI

just don't let him get meter, it's easy!

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Characters Joker loses to
>Pikachu/Pichu
>Peach/Daisy
>Snake
>All swordies
>Fox
>Wolf
>Mario
>Ryu/Ken
>ZSS
>Bowser
>Wario
>Ness
>Captain Falcon
The only characters he beats are heavies. You're shit and you keep blaming Joker for your losses because you are bad at the game. Die.
t.Elite Joker

nothing in this game is unbeatable

>Using based Leo as an example
That Falcon is garbage.

>leo still winning
>reddit meleefags still desperately want to lynch a gay black man without a shred of self awareness
A good tournament, very funny.

>Captain Falcon
Based, the Capt counters joker and arsene with his speed.

>Any competent Smash player can kill Joker before he gets enough meter to summon Arsene

I, too, can 0 to death my opponent 3 times at 50% in the span of a minute. Unless you've got a bomb ass Ganondorf/Ike/Dedede and can fsmash like a god, I don't believe you.

the nigger gets meter by getting hit you stupid fucks. by trying to kill him he gets arsen even faster

Exactly. Joker can't keep up with Falcon's movement and every mistake he makes gets punished hard. If you're not a shitter you should win that matchup easily, I'd say 60-40 in Cap's favor.
>What is edgeguarding

There is no way that fireball was sizzle. Sizzle isn't a fireball. Chances are that fire Luminary was sitting by was Sizzle.

Again
nothing in this game is unbeatable

If you weren't complete garbage you would realize that you aren't literally supposed to 0 to death him. Ledge trap him, edge guard him, press your advantage. He doesn't have strong OOS options and he dies very quickly. If you let him get Arsene, you are trash. It's that simple.

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I'm not blaming anyone for my losses. I realize that I'm not that good at the game. But to say joker loses more MUs than he wins is just retarded. He's a high tier or maybe top tier character.

Mario does not beat joker,neither does captain falcon,ryu/ken, and zss. These are all even or joker favored.

Whatever fag, enjoy getting dabbed on by a mid tier character.

>that first loss

Neutral B is so silly.

>Mario
Renders Eiha and Eiagon obsolete. Can ledge trap the shit out of Joker and kill him even with Arsene up B.
>Captain Falcon and ZSS
Outspeed Joker, make it impossible for him to land his confirms, punish him hard on everything
>Ryu/Ken
Have better neutral and kill confirms, kill extremely early at 60%, have armor, better recovery than Joker
Again, you're trash. You should consider actually learning to play before you open your mouth again. Assuming it isn't stuffed full of Joker's cock.

>mid tier
pbs.twimg.com/media/D9ogQQsVAAAHP7I.jpg:large
i.imgur.com/HivY3mm.png
i.imgur.com/M3DsCmo.png
i.imgur.com/HpIMHGH.jpg

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Marss is a shitter then?

Joker just sucks if you get him to the point of being edgeguarded without the meter building up. I mean, good for you but he's bad.

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Wolf, Star Fox Assault
On the plus side he has a decent barrier to unlock him so you can keep him locked away forever.

If he let Leo get Arsene that consistently he would have lost to any Joker.

I think Joker is mad overrated and is like the 8th or 9th best in the game but no, he doesn't lose to Falcon at all

I can make a meme chart too.
I mean, one of them has 20 fucking characters in top tier

Mario has no range and loses to disjoints which joker and has more of when he has arsene.

Captain falcon is easy to juggle and to edgeguard.
Zss loves being the in air and loses air to air due to jokers disjoints and bullet storm makes it difficult for her to recover.

Once again ryu and ken are easy to and edgeguard and have no disjoints.

You wanna fight motherfucker?

based

Tsu, Dabuz, Zer0, m2k

are you better than these players?

WFT hits like a truck, he got it way past 50% and already had meter before he got hit

he spawns with that meter

>Mario
Again, if you let Joker get Arsene, it. Is. Your. Fault. Period.
>Captain Falcon
Okay but he has better neutral than Joker and a strong punish game.
>ZSS
Has better neutral than Joker, should never be sent offstage
>Ryu and Ken
See above. Also ftilt is disjointed.

Not going to waste my time playing against a 3m GSP shitter who doesn't understand the game and thinks shotos have no disjoint.

I stopped playing SFA with my brother because he'd pick nothing but Wolf after he unlocked him. He's the type to run full Rahu build in Custom Robo after I win enough times, though. Been years since I played SFA, though.

Arsene comes out too quickly and lasts far too long.

>Again, if you let Joker get Arsene, it. Is. Your. Fault. Period.
What did he mean by this?

whoops

He's Link without traps and a more limited zoning game.

he means don't hit Joker, dummy

It means you failed to press advantage and/or you don't know your character's edgeguarding and ledgetrapping tools.

Yea Forums is pretty good at video games, I see. Why haven't pros used this strategy?

they must suck ass. I will win EVO

If Joker is so busted why does only one player get results with him? Surely everyone can just win any super major by switching to him?

>suggesting more fucking stage bans
Ban this fucking Twitter user instead

So you're saying you should kill Joker before he summons Arsene?

Allow me to phrase this in no uncertain terms. As long as you know how to press advantage, Arsene is irrelevant as a comeback mechanic. You knock him offstage and ledgetrap him, and it's not like he can do anything with Arsene while in disadvantage. I'm giving you shitters free matchup advice and you'd rather cry about how broken you think he is.

If Jigglypuff is so busted why does only one player get results with him? Surely everyone can just win any super major by switching to him?

Yes. Just ko him at 30% bro lol like come the fuck on git gud.

So you're saying you should beat up Joker until he dies? That's not very good advice.

And what if you don't get irreversible advantage before Joker builds up meter because he's a halfway competent player? I mean, what you're suggesting sounds viable in a training room but not against an opponent with a functioning brain.

I'm glad you understand user.
I literally said the opposite of this. You aren't supposed to just 0 to death him, you press advantage. You know, like you do against every fucking character in the game? Arsene is meaningless if he's being hit or ledge trapped. It's not like he has a fucking Lucina up B combo breaker tool. Surely your Smash fundamentals are not that garbage?

Not sure what point you're trying to make, I mean, you're right amd you're agreeing with that post. Neither character is broken, it's just the players that use them exploit their options. You're also comparing a character that changes the pace of the game with a new character no one uses so no one has any real practice against him

Dude it's so easy like lol it ain't hard just don't hit Joker, ko him before Arsene pops out at 30%, trump his reach power and speed, then tbag. Easy peasy bro.

This doesn't happen. Joker isn't Cloud, he can't build up Arsene on his own without successfully absorbing your attacks with Rebel's Guard. Are you saying he shouldn't be rewarding for reading your sloppy offense?

Man, I don't think Joker is broken at all but Leo is really pushing him to the limits making him seem like top tier now.
But Leo is so good so that can be said about any character he plays.

Joker is going to get arsene its and inevitably by design.

Falcon's stronger punish game doesn't help when he's offstage or when edge guarding joker.

A better neutral doesn't guarantee that you won't be sent offstage and one move being disjointed doesn't beat an entire disjoint.

Don't talk shit if you're not gonna back it punk. I'll fight you right now.

>you press advantage
wow that's helpful advice
most people usually give up when after getting one good hit on their opponent, this honestly changes everything

He'll be busted because he's a new, non-veteran DLC character

The way Nintendo seems to sell DLC is to let the new toys be broken as fuck to entice the kiddies then nerfing things when they get around to them

You are wrong bro. Joker's meter does fill on its own. Very slightly but it does, check it out in training.

Piranha Plant is pretty trash though

Yes, and him having Arsene means literally nothing if he's on disadvantage. What is he supposed to do while he's being comboed and ledge trapped? And why should I fight you if you're just going to bitch about how OP Joker is while I body your low GSP having ass?
Most people are trash. Seemingly, that includes you.
Fair, but not at the same rate. If he gets Arsene passively it's because you played a milquetoast neutral.

But it does happen. It's not like one hit guarantees a player into severe disadvantage. If you're consistently getting Jokers from 0% to ledgetrap death in a single combo then you should be playing in nationals. The vast majority of players do not play that well 100% of the time, though.

>Seemingly, that includes you.
I'm not the one giving awful advice

>Banjo has a lot of endlag of all his specials
Oh nonono

Don't worry. Your wittle crutch character won't get nerfed cause Sakurai has a boner for him.

She is low tier in Ultimate.

>If you're consistently getting Jokers from 0% to ledgetrap death in a single combo then you should be playing in nationals.
If he's doing that, then he's likely playing against shit players. Or he's a Joker player that gets his shit kicked in.

I think Arsene just needs to have a shorter meter.

Also likely.

Honestly, you can’t really tell from that trailer.

Joker could have easily countered and won.

Yes, all these people whining in this topic are just babies who couldn't win even with a top-tier character.

Piranha Plant was also free for the first few months which means everyone has him

The Premium characters you have to pay money for will always be high-mid to top-tier on release

FYI, if you won't back up your bullshit and just run while making uo strawmen, you have already lost. Fight him or fuck off.

luma is still jank as fuck
prove me wrong

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>and won

Look at the stocks.

Jank, sure, but easy to quickly deal with, and Rosalina is a bad character alone.

Rebelguard very combos in this game are true combos there are two to 3 frames and sometimes even more where the opponent can press a fast enough button to get out of a combo rebel guard is one of the those buttons.
I'll admit I don't know about ledgeguarding.

Goddammit I done with you. Either fight me or shut the fuck up. You're right though you have no reason to fight me.

And not once did I say Joker is OP during our argument the only thing I said was that joker does not lose more MUs than he wins and I also didnt mention GSP. Like GSP is a fucking accurate measurement of skill. God damn talking to you makes me so goddamn angry.

>just don't let Joker get Arsene
What kind of retarded advice is this?
Joker getting bodied to 70% automatically gives him Arsene. Unless you gimp him while he's recovering it's almost impossible to kill Joker before this percentage, meaning Joker will get Arsene in every stock.

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If he refuses to fight you, he's just baiting. Ignore him.

Cheap JOJO BA Knockoff tier trash character persoNNA 5 killed EtikA pERsonna 5 only has 3 enemy types and the STory just KEEps repEATing itselF Over and oVeR and OvEr and oVEr again dear god it"s so BAD

Just ledgetrap him at 50%, bro. GG EZ.

I'm giving you free matchup advice. If you cared about getting good you'd listen to me instead of bitching. But you don't want to get good, you want to bitch.
He won't get nerfed because he doesn't need it. Stay mad swordfag.
Answer the fucking question.
If you're not a complete retard you can bait RG and punish Joker for more damage than you would have gotten otherwise.
>Ledgeguarding
Let me help you, it's two different terms.
Ledge trapping is when the opponent is on the ledge and you use your character's tools to keep them there. IE, Joker spacing out back air disjoint to cover getup attack, neutral getup and jump all at once. Edgeguarding is when you go offstage to gimp them. Go work on these simple, fundamental concepts of Smash, and I might consider fighting you. Might.

joker fanboys are the most delusional faggots i've ever seen

it's spelled Arsin, retards

Don't worry anons, I'm going to beat Leo.

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exactly, fucking whining losers
git gud

I main Ridley and have accepted he'll never get buffs. Even when I'm not playing Ridley I still feel Joker gets rewarded too soon with Arsene and that it lasts too long especially for how quickly he gets it.

I wouldn't say she's in the same tier as Brawl Meta Knight or Sm4Sh Bayonetta, but she's good in a lot of areas with no real glaring weaknesses. Doesn't help she's not much fun to fight against too.

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ARSÈNE

Joker mains are actually fucking retarded for defending their precious “top skill” character. Just fucking own up to the fact that you main a character that’s fundamentally broken and has clear advantages that arise from being punished instead of being a bitch about it and trying to prove you playing the character “takes skill”. It’s fucking unbelievable seeing how retarded every single Joker player is, since they all spout the same shit. I’ve heard one who says “Ganon and heavies wins the matchup” since he got out in a local by one first game. Shut the fuck up and own it.

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No, he won't get nerfed because Sakurai wants to fuck him in the ass. It's that simple. Please respond and tell me how totally wrong I am, user.

Joker's worst matchup. If you think Joker is broken you've never fought a half competent Lucina. That character takes zero skill to win with and if you beat me with her I don't respect you.
So it's my fault you crippled yourself by picking a shitty character?
I main him because he's my favorite video game character. I worked myself to the fucking bone getting good with him and you're not going to take him from me because you couldn't be assed to do the same. Fuck off commie.
And what are you gonna do about it? Quit the game to play Melee? If you couldn't hack it in Ultimate you're gonna get raped in Melee. Beg Sakurai for nerfs? Fat chance. /myguy/ is here to stay.

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Lmao your pic shows more Rpg possibilities than the game ever offers you

who else here /bottomtier/?

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Holy BASED

But how could they sale the character if he wasen't op nobody in the real world even cares about perso 5

>Considered the greatest JRPG of all time
>Nobody cared about it
Delusional

>I main him because he's my favorite video game character. I worked myself to the fucking bone getting good with him and you're not going to take him from me because you couldn't be assed to do the same. Fuck off commie.
Good for you. You like the character, you play him because he’s your favorite. Perfectly fine. Just saying expect people to complain and don’t bitch to them trying to defend your character. Joker has problems with the ways he’s designed. Instead of trying to defend those problems, use them to your advantage and maybe you’ll be more respected. People like you are fueling the hate for the character

He's your favorite game character of all time, from two years ago, out of all the possible characters in existence? You gotta be shitposting.

>Gr8 b8
2 million in sales

>Considered the greatest JRPG of all time

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Mac actually wins the Ganondorf matchup.
t. Mac pro

I bet you he also thinks Deathnote is good

>People like you are fueling the hate for the character
Good. I want you to look at me, look at my character and to hate me. I want to burn that hatred into your fucking soul. I want you to look on in envy, knowing that no matter how passionate you are, no matter who you main, you won't stand up to me and my Phantom Thief. Bring on the nerfs, they're gonna have to nerf me for you motherfuckers to stand a chance.
And who is your main user?

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Low recovery bros gotta stick together. Love you Macs stirring up shitters online. Keep up the good work Mac

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This is actually fucking sad. What are you, 15?

Figures a chuuni ass motherfucker would like Joker.

Unless you are actively participating in major tournaments then you shouldn't be following tier lists as if they are truth. You shouldn't play a character just for the sole reason that they are considered high tier and you shouldn't drop a character just because they are considered "bottom tier." So here is just a quick reminder to say

FUCK TIER LISTS
FUCK SUPER MACHO MAN
FUCK DONKEY KONG
FUCK MIKE TYSON
FUCK LEFFEN
FUCK ZERO
FUCK WOLF
FUCK PALUTENA

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

FUCK TIER FAGS

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based. just learn the matchup and options of joker and read your opponents.

Worst only 30% of the people who bought it actually finished it

there is no arguing with smashfags. they will defend any shitty mechanic added.

Kirby

>You wanna fight motherfucker?
noob

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>Considered the greatest JRPG of all time

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Have you ever won a tournament with your favorite video game character of all time? It's an unbelievable feeling. And it fills me with joy to know there are people who will never know the joy of seeing their number one in Smash. That there are people who will go their whole lives and die before experiencing what I feel every single day of my life. I never thought I'd get my boy, but I dreamed. And now he's here, and he's not going anywhere.

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Ridley because fuck tiers. He's the main recurring Metroid villain, Samus' nemesis, and been around longer than most characters on the roster. Favorite game character of all time? Nah, but he has been my most wanted forever.

Won a local with Doc and felt great. I love Mario, grew up with him and I’ve loved a lot of his games. After the tourney ended, got a bunch of pats on the back from my friends and some other guys who I’ve faced, said gg, and I left the room with a big fat paycheck that I split with my friends and we all went out to lunch together. You see, I don’t value my fictional main so much that I cry about how epic he is on the internet. Instead, I actually try and have fun with the game with friends instead of being a sperg about it.

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So what you're saying is you know he's too good for what little work gets put into him. Gotcha, that's all you had to say from the start man. Enjoy your character.

He's good because I make him good. On his own he's average, but thanks to players like me and MKLeo, his true potential is brought out. It's ironic, no? Just like in his home game, he requires a strong bond to achieve true power.
Congratulations user, I'm happy for you. Really, I am. it must take a lot of fortitude to win with such a crippled character. As long as you're having fun, that's what's truly important, isn't it?

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Joker is literally diet Sheik w/limit. Theres only one person that does anything with Joker at Nats. All the other Jokers do well at locals and regional, but not at a National scale.

Don’t call my character crippled you fucking dickhead. I’ll fuck you up

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Literally voted to first place in Famitsu magazine. Deal with it.

>Famistu

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Christ, I don't understand Smash picks / bans, like why aren't battlefield versions of EVERY stage viable. Some of the more mobile ones like Delfino and the F-Zero ones I understand, but say DK falls or Super Mario where nothing is happening are illegal because why.

>If you're not a complete retard you can bait RG and punish Joker for more damage than you would have gotten otherwise.
>Just read your opponent
If your advice works around 50% of the time against decent opponents, it's not good advice, mate

>Fuck tiers, just play your favorites!
>user says Joker is his favorite
>Gets a bunch of spergs responding to him
Typical Yea Forums

He does not lose to most of those characters, you just got outplayed in Elite.

>losing to little-mac

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Arsène, like Arsène Lupin you dumb fuck

user there's no shame in losing every now and then. Even the greatest in the world have to take an L sometimes, it's part of the learning experience. The important thing is, I'm a better player now than the people I used to lose to.

>aba has almost dropped borb entirely, only pulling it out for desperate shit if inkling failing
>the next best borb doesn't leave his state
when will the borbs be unleashed?

It's okay user, there's nothing they can do to take him from me. He's not getting nerfed and he's not going anywhere. The lion doesn't concern itself with the thoughts of its prey.

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Fuck I never even tried that. Gonna do so right now.

alright come on man stop acting like an edgy faggot as if joker gets no love. You barely know anything about hate from the community

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They killed borb in that smash4 patch that took his death combo away. Ultimate done him no favors.

No, fuck you. Every fucking time i posted him in those "most wanted" threads I got fucking shitposted to death. You're not going to take this victory from me. You don't know what this means to me.

I think he's just baiting. No actual group wants to get burned and hated by the Smash community. And besides, Joker barely got a fraction of the hate that Bayonetta got back in Smash 4.

The reason all Battlefields aren't viable is because in order of the whole baning system where players in a set counterpick and ban which stages to play on. Since every version of BF is just BF, it would just make it pointless to ban battlefield in a set.

Not baiting, and I didn't want hate at first, but once it was forced onto me and my fellow Jokerbros I accepted it. Don't poke the bear if you can't handle its bite.

Stop edgeposting
Please

I understand it, but I still think it's stupid. I suppose that's why I'm not a pro, I guess.

How about you suck my dick

At least mid-tier.
Assuming it doesn't have some ridiculous handicap, Snooze alone would make fucking Little Mac mid tier.
He seems to have a very Robin/Link set of basic moves, so unless he has Shiek-level problems dealing damage, I think High mid tier/low high tier is a given, no matter how shitty MP regeneration works.

From there, I think it comes down to his MP managment, and other details about his kit we just don't know yet like what he gets combos and kill confirms off of.
I think he easily has the potential to be top tier, put Snooze on a character who isn't ass, and you have a top tier who can fish for a kill confirm off of a large projectile at like, 60%.

If you're referring to hate from rosterfags then rosterfags are hated by the Smash community as well. Obsessing about who should be cut and who shouldn't be in is pure autism. If you mean competitive fagging, then again, Joker barely has gotten hate. Unless another player besides MKleo wins a major with Joker then people will treat Joker as someone that leo is carrying.

If he gets nerfed you'll find another exploitable character. Just like they all do.

Literal who

She's really good against camping, which is what Smash Ultimate is devolving into.
Snake is also really good against camping, while also being an excellent camper.
And Joker likes fighting defensive, campy players who will give him meter without threatening to KO him, and can also outcamp most campers with Eigaon.

Tell me the top 8's of every tournament is of just "most used".

There's a dime a dozen shitty ZSS

How fucking old are you?

Wrong. Having Joker in Smash means so much more to me than a fucking tier list. I've wanted him in since I first played Persona 5. I imported the Japanese version, beat it and then got the American version day 1 and finished it too. They can nerf him all they want, I'm never dropping him. And no matter how much you seethe and bitch and moan, you'll never take my bro away from me.
And yet there are countless shitters begging for him to be nerfed. Answer me this, anyone at all, not just you. Do you honestly believe he deserves it? Think with your heart, not with salt.
MKLeo is fucking 18 and the best player on the planet, what's your point?

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>Famitsu magazine

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>MKLeo is fucking 18 and the best player on the planet, what's your point?

dumbass, he's not referring to joker players and if your not baiting and honestly this retarded, your past saving

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>Answer me this, anyone at all, not just you. Do you honestly believe he deserves it?
There's only one thing I'd say Joker should be nerfed, and that is Arsene's regeneration, it's extremely easy to get Arsene even without using Rebel's Guard. Other than that Joker is fine.

>250+ posts in
>no mention of this motherfucker
You've lost your touch, Yea Forums.

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But why nerf his main mechanic? He's not Joker without Arsene.

it's Arsehn, retard

He still is himself, only now Joker will actually have to try to get Arsene instead of sponging damage and busting him out for free.

Why is the smash fanbase so quick to cry OP about characters? I always thought it took much longer for the meta to develop than that.

Teach me the Doc strats. His range and recovery feel so limited compared to everyone else.
With someone like ganon I at least have big reach and command grabs.

who?

Okay, but how would you compensate him? In my opinion, he should be able to use the grappling hook while Arsene is active.

Counterpicks are pretty important in tournament play. Makes it so that players have to think about what stages they start on and which they need to avoid.

This board is hopeless

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Arsene will be harder to get, so in turn Arsene will be on screen for a longer time.

Competitive Smash players are subhuman

Why not the opposite? Make Arsene easier to get but weaker. The title gimmick of the Persona series should not be disregarded.

It's a counterpick for a reason does this retard not know that

>WHY WON'T EVERYONE PLAY THE GAME THE WAY I WANT REEEEE
Imagine being mad at people for using options the game gives you

That could also work I suppose. Either way Arsene can be balanced without ruining the character.

I'll accept whatever user. Again, I really don't care if they nerf him. He's my bro and I'm never giving up on him.

Then why not have banning battlefield ban the battlefield variations of other stages as well? That sounds like common fucking sense. Picking the other stages is literally just picking a different skin for battlefield.

That's exactly what happens user, what the other guy meant is that the rule prevents you from picking a BF version of another stage when Battlefield is banned. It's a bit confusingly worded.

The smash community is absolute shit. There will always be a strongest character, if you keep nerfing characters the cycle only continues and a metagame will never develop you absolute retards

I don't think the variations themselves are banned outright. Some variations are banned due to being too busy visually, but most aren't. I think the default version of BF is my least favorite because the lighting is so shitty in this game.

The 2D ones are banned because they have glitches with the z-axis. The Sonic Lost World one is banned because the grass covers up shit like Snake's C4.

I wish there were more unique tournament legal stages with unique layouts. I feel like the best states to watch are the ones that allow for things like wall jumping.

Oh, nevermind then. It's honestly been a while since I've watched any smash stuff, so I thought he was saying they were outright banned and unplayable. That makes more sense.

>Sakurai didn't work on any of the game balance this game
>Lets keep blaming him
Why do people act like Sakurai makes smash bros all by himself? He's not a 1 man team

>glitches with the z-axis

It's not a bug, it's just flat out not there in Eevee variation. Thankfully it's only in Flat Zone and IIRC Duck Hunt.

I'm so glad this bitch got nerfed, same with Rob.

Because I lost to them once, don’t want to face the possibility that my beloved character has a bad matchup and most importantly, it takes effort to learn a matchup. I’d rather they just be nerfed

ZSS is top-tier? I thought people said she was shit when the game came out. I played her a little bit and had a lot of fun, how do I git gud with her?

They only said she was shit because she couldn't pull off her smash 4 kill combos. As for getting good just watch how marss plays her.

> people actually posting “just hit him” as advice.

To be fair, Joker is super overpowered in P5 so he still counts regardless of Smash Bros. He's probably the most overpowered Persona protag in all honesty. Gameplay wise before any autistic 3fags get on my case and start squealing.

So long as I can go to BF Mementos with Mass Destruction everything's good

people think shes not good because she use to be able to ladder combo you to death easily in smash 4 and now thats not really a thing unless you let it happen