Why was Super Mario Sunshine so hated?

Why was Super Mario Sunshine so hated?

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because people are dumb and think that an overarching theme is the same thing as lack of level variety. so nintendo listened and we got game after game of levels that feel totally isolated and blandly thematic.

Because of contrarian Yea Forums autism. Hating one of your childhood games makes you look cool

tediously slow start, compared to SM64 that just threw you right into the action
only half as many main courses compared to SM64
lack of variety in the level design, they were all different spins on "tropical resort aesthetic"
fludd

because you can't invert the camera

So when Yea Forums loves games from your early 2000s childhood, it's because we're stuffy contrarian boomers who hate new things. But then also when we hate other games from your early 2000s childhood, that also much be because we're contrarians on that as well?

Come on now. Sunshine has been divisive as fuck since the day it released. And inb4 you claim it wasn't, just because you're young and apparently didn't look and see what anyone was saying about it during the entirety of the 2000s and only had your own little bubble to draw experiences from.

Ridiculous padding, random difficulty spikes and samey level design. You can tell the game was rushed. It would have benefited from one more solid year of development.

Because it was a step down from 64.
But you'll love it again after playing Galaxy

it isn't. Only skids hate this game.

the fludd was an absolutely terrible design choice. All they did was limit the amount of movement options Mario had, and replace them with a hover ability. But then to compensate for the fact that mario can now hover, they had to extend out all the platforms. the net effect is that where once you'd just jump from one platform to the next, now you jump and slowly hover, then jump and slowly hover. It adds nothing to the game except slowing down the pace and padding out the levels.

And also the difficulty curve was fucking all over th place, because all of the main levels had zero bottomless pits, but then you'd have the special courses that were almost always abstract shapes hovering over a pit. There was never any middle-ground in this regard.
Also that fucking pachinko machine bullshit, I want to strangle whoever designed that level.

Because there are no optional in-level missions, unlike Mario 64. There's no reason to do bonus levels, because your shine count doesn't matter.

It's just not that fun but I generally don't finish mario games so take my opinion with a grain of salt

same reason Yea Forums has people on it who think Fallout 3 was better than 4
the zoomers only like things they enjoyed as kids and GC was before they were out of diapers

Will the people who keep replying "because they're stupid dummy poopoo head contrarians" actually respond to the criticisms of the game given in this thread?

first 2 i can agree on.
3rd isnt totally true, and even then it was executed exceptionally well.

i never got the hate for flood, it upped the skill floor for sure, but it also added alot of variety without dropping the skill ceiling.

also, you have to admit the game was a technical marvel, perticularly in how it did the goop/water "painting" system

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There was a knee-jerk reaction when it was released, with hate for FLUDD. They just didn't want anything that wasn't exactly exactly exactly like Mario 64 had been.

the pachinko thing had some weird "pull" effect built into its top to simulate mario following the curve of the roof after you launch him, but it was hyper aggresive.

the other issue was the pins actually being 45` angle surfaces, which would trigger marios "slide" state usually reserved for terrain used for keeping you in the map boundary(it should have been just an object you couldn't "land" on, and would just have you go around it collision box)

Sure, it was absolutely impressive and extremely pretty for a 2003 release.
In terms of level variety, I agree they handled it fairy well and each place had its unique "sub theme" but they were all still tropical resort beach theme, and there's only so much you can do with that. It's an inherent limitation if you're going to restrict yourself to that setting.

The issue with the flood was that it doesn't actually add much in terms of platforming. All it did was slow down the pace. Rather than doing a normal jump (or god forbid a long jump) you now jump and hold the hover nozzle to slowly inch toward the other side of the gap.

to be fair I still prefer even that to Galaxy's platforming mechanics, where it was even more simplified and dumbed down

core gameplay was completely ruined because Mario lost all his weight and movement with him became less skillfull and more twitchy while being more forgiving

>Yea Forums hates Mario Sunshine

I'm too old for this board

Missions are boring and FLUDD makes platforming trivial. The secret levels are godly though, while having no fludd nor collect-a-thon level design the rest of the game suffers from. Think about that for a second.

It wasn't. If you think what you read on 4chins is indicative of general opinion about something you are beyond the point where lurking for another 2 years will help you.

No, you're too young for it. Yea Forums has been mixed/negative on sunshine going back as far as 2007 at least

I played Sunshine in my childhood too, user. But when I replayed it a few weeks ago it's kinda a mess. I'd say 70% of the missions in the game are frustrating and not fun to play. The only redeeming factor this game has is its atmosphere, but it's quality is lowered by the amount of padding and superfluous shines there are in the game.

Those levels are probably the truest translation of 2D original Mario to 3D, along with Mario 64's Bowser levels.

The water spray mechanic is fucking annoying

fludd makes it trivial but its still a great adventure game

I played it but never beat it. Now I seem to prefer Super Mario 3D land for it's minimalist style.

Same with Galaxy. There is just too much going on at once in both games, and Galaxy reminds me of this developmentally stunted neet I used to hang out with.

Bad level design for me, but it was still way better than Galaxy.

Weird, misplaced belief that all Mario games must be
>last game but MORE

When in reality the various mario series games used to be very different from each other.

>SMB
>Mario bros arcade
>SMB2
>SMB3
>Super Mario World
>Yoshis Island
>64
>Sunshine

The reality is there was not much reason to expect Sunshine to be any more similar to 64 than 64 was to, say, Yoshis Island or even Super Mario World. Now we are in an era where all Super Mario 2d games are just clones of 1, and all 3D Games MUST be sm64.

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Because it wasn’t Super Mario 64 2.

nigger what. The entire problem with Sunshine was that it WAS just SM64 2. It was just SM64 but with fewer levels and a shitty water jetpack. Now you're trying to present it as being some paradigm shift that was going in a different direction that people misunderstand?

I agree that modern nintendo has a problem of just rehashing old mario themes rather than doing anything new (especially those NSMB games) but Sunshine is just as guilty of this as the rest.

I just replayed Sunshine after at least a decade of not playing it, and I can say that it wasn't as bad as I remember.
There's a lot of tedious sections that drag out forever, and some wonky mechanics in certain missions that kill you unfairly.

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You better not like any fucking Rare games then

It's just the excuses and whines of casual gamers that were bad at it. None of it should be taken seriously, and the complainers can be mocked freely for sucking.

The only similarities are the hub level structure and basic movements. All the levels are designed around the water mechanics. In 64 they’re designed around Mario’s basic movements. Much like how in Galaxy the levels are more linear as opposed to exploratory and the spin mechanic dictated the level design. Mario 64 2 would’ve retained the same basic concepts of control and level design.

Luckily I played the shit out of this game as a kid so I still remember where they all are.

They really shouldn't have rushed the development of the game, another 2 years could've added a lot of content, but the Gamecube needed its "Mario" game to sell units

Too hard for the average Yea Forums user

I'M A CHUCKSTER

WHOOOAAAHAHAHA

It wasn't. It was extremely well recieved.
Stop listening to autists on Yea Forums.

Sunshine Pachinko is the most nostalgic rage I think I've ever had. It's the most satisfying thing I've ever hated, and I always look forward to hating it.

I will validate any claim as to why Sunshine was hated. But since it wasn't hated, that's pointless.

the last mainline game I loved but mainly for the fluddless platformers. .