What happened to the MMO genre?

Peria Chronicles is finally in Beta!

And it has a lot of user generated content.... yeah hopes are a lot lower

Mobile and casual gaming killed MMOs. WoW was the only on e anyone ever gave a shit about anyway.

People tried to kill WoW
You can't kill WoW
There is more money in other online genres.

There was a single successful formula everything tried to emulate since it is to this day making profit.

>Peria Chronicles
I knew this was going to be a failure after the first delay.

Fear not, Bamco is here to save the MMO genre.

Blue Protocol is the next gen anime MMO we've been waiting for

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WoW catered to idiots too dumb to figure out EverQuest and ruined the genre.

Yes i like EVE as much as you but its also very niche. No one would give you funding to set something that risky up today.

No they didn't, MMO's dies because people didn't feel their grinding was valuable anymore. Everything turned easy as fuck, who cares?

Wildstar is a bundle of wasted potential. It had a unique sci-fi setting for a WoW clone, the lore is genuinely interesting, and most of all, it had personality; it was light-hearted, comfy and over-the-top, it didn’t took itself seriously in terms of tone, it was overall very fun.

It could have been the fated WoW killer it fashioned itself to be, except it had one flaw: it tried too hard to target itself towards the most hardcore MMO player to try and steal WoW’s player base. By only focusing on a niche, it alienated the more easily winnable players on the more casual side of the spectrum that could have at least helped build a solid, sustainable base to work up from.

By trying too much to be the game for the best, it forgot to be a game for everyone.

I hate that everyone just kept churning out fantasy after fantasy MMO while overlooking the sci-fi genres. Hell, a good superhero MMO would have been a great diversion from the usual fare.

MMO subscription fees began to be viewed as wastes of money since MMO developers generally sit on their worthless asses raking in money while doing nothing
Look at Blizzard, making millions of dollars a month and just sitting there farting around. They could've given out expansions for free to long-duration subscribers but instead you had to pay for the xpacs so Blizzard could rake in even more money, and the xpacs were (like SOE) apparently increasingly half-assed, content-sparse and feature incomplete.
free2play MMOs like the shit NCSoft craps out in Korea tried to fill the void, but the West dislikes pay2win horseshit Koreans take up with ass routinely, willingly and begging for more. What the hell is wrong with Koreans?

The best thing about Wildstar was its trailers. Very Ratchet and Clank in terms of humour.

People still play WoW or FFXIV.
People just wanna play shitty f2p Korean MMOs.

Nah

Mabinogi died because the game had too much content to keep in balance and maintain so instead they decided to monetize the endgame after about 7 years and it's only gotten worse

Ultima Online died because the Devs ruined the core of it with update after update where it just took away the charm

Black Desert Online died because... It's still going pretty strong but that enhancement system it deserves to die

PSO2 NA was DoA because they released it with less than 2 years to go in it's content life cycle

Gunbound wasn't an MMO you autist. But, yah it was good. I had a full money suit and would only do grub trick shots that gave me tons of money but did no damage.

Nah, leveling was boring.

People decided raids, fetch quests, and gear treadmills were more appealing than having an interesting world to explore and a high degree of interactivity and quests that are fun an interesting.
user...

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There's a few MMOs being developed by smaller dev teams that are showing promise. Project Gorgon is being recieved well, Crowfall might get there some day.

MMOs became super casualized so you get through the content as quickly as non-mmo games

1 king remains and it's fantastic

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All the scifi mmos either played like ass or were blatant copies of WoW which looked stupid.

None of those detail a clear reason for any of them dying, try again

That’s part of the larger problem I mentioned.

This whole cycle od developer made content that gets burned through just doesnt worm for MMOs IMO. They focus so heavily on story content when they should be giving the players ways of making their own interactions with the world and each other. For example, in Archage you had a house placed in the world where you were constantly because that's where you grew crops/animals and crafted. Having these houses in PvP zones would often stir up conflicts and rivalries with neighbors until whole guilds would show up to fight.

Wildstar shoulda not had an ugly ass art style

MMOs were the reason a bunch of people have backlogs. Nowadays people are trying to play their backlogs or just whatever popular game is out, never sticking to a multiplayer or MMO anymore.

Wrong, it's Nostos

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Project gorgon is interesting on the mechanical side but the world lacks the personality and quality of mapping that older mmos have. part of what made Runescape so appealing is that there was no wasted space, everywhere you went there was something interesting to find.

Also having a game be called "project X" is a surefire way to make sure nobody ever plays it.

Excuse me?
youtube.com/watch?v=s5ztILmc4W0
Motherfucker have you heard of City of Heroes?

here are my choices
>buy WoW expansions and sub (I've never played before)
>re-sub to Anarchy Online (dead game)
>buy FFXIV newest expansion and re-sub
>play tree of savior

please pick one
no, not wasting my life on a grinding game is not a choice

>WoW fucked up and lost its monopoly on the genre
>F2P became a thing
Now everything is more spread through out different games

Became a fad, got overtaken by normies and devs pandered to them, ruining the genre.

Nostos is going to rip and tear. Poorfags without VR are going to seethe.

long-term investment is harder to market to crowds than instant-satisfaction

also, the games have been shit

This mostly, most MMOs just tried to copy WoW but could never keep up with it. The term "wow-killer" got thrown around all the time but they were just wow-clones really.

FF14 only just barely managed to survive by retooling basically everything and relaunching of the backs of weebs and otaku.

post how she looks in-game again

Working adults who like MMOs don't have time to play them.
Ideal, younger audience with more time to indulge in a virtual world now have too short attention spans thanks to being spoonfed f2p mobile shit.

She doesn't look like that ingame
Uh wildstar keks?

A lot of online games popular on console reward players for playing in groups or offer a better experience when played with friends. Also the games popular with streamers like OW, LoL, and Fortnite all have a lot of social aspects as part of the game whether it's skins, alternate game modes, emotes, etc.

Share mmo screenshots before this thread archives

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Didn't they fix that though? Even made her bustier iirc

City of Heroes has private servers up

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Power Rangers on City of Heroes

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She looked like THAT?!

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FF14, shadowbringers blows stormblood out of the water

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WoW got too big, wanting other devs/publishers to have something from it's cake and releasing only inferior "wow-killers". The few good ones that started to build their own audience were either turned into Wow-wannabes or killed down later on when they weren't enough money, since WoW-money was the new goal.

Why does she look like a gamecube model. Wasnt this game pc exclusive?

they became less co op and more single player and no one plays an mmo to feel alone

Artstyle and of course having to make sure the game runs on a toaster, like most MMOs try to do.

I miss ArcheAge so much, bros...

The other 2 are dead and I don't think WoW is bouncing back until next expansion at the earliest. XIV is a tranny haven with horrible character creation but at least it's on a fresh expansion now.

blacks and women ruined it just like they do everything else

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wildstar was literal fucking garbage and its ridiculous you faggots keep posting it like it wasnt a complete dumpster fire all the way through

She's cute, for a girl with a weak bladder.

People wanted a vehicle in which to make numbers go up, rather than an immersive world that facilitates large numbers of players interacting together.

It was F**KING EPIC FOR BADASSES ONLY, CUPCAKE!

It was a trash game made for a fictional demographic.

Boomers and zoomers. Their desire for instant gratification and solo options murdered the genre, dumbing everything down.

it's more alive than ever.

Archeage has bounced back and removed most of the pay to win bullshit for real youtu.be/JUaiLcUhNqU

So what MMOs do you consider to be non-garbage, sir?

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Fuck korea for labeling every multiplayer game a MMO just because its got global chat

>Black Desert Online died
>one of the most profitable games that gets tons of updates

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Name a single MMO that looks on par with AAA games

i ate mexican and indian food one night, and plopped a wet sloppy turd right on it. ostensibly it seemed solid, yet it had that light brown hue that tells you it has the consistency of a tiramisu, perfect for stepping on and eating. this powerful and acidic turd I squeezed out red-faced right into the mouth of the MMO industry, and in the collective mouth of MMO players

read the entire bit

Peria Chronicles

FF14 before they butchered it

How is the Wildstar Private Server coming along? G-God I need it

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BfA?

World of Warcraft

While initially a good game, they put way too much development time into raiding and rewards and not enough in actual gameplay, this started about mid way through vanilla, though it only effected the end game which only 10% of the playerbase participated in

Fast Forward 15 years and 15 years of focusing solely on end game raiding and rewards has created a game designed around formulaic nonsense, and the new developers hired to replace the original devs view anything that isn't reward or instanced as an inconvenience and have spent their entire career at blizzard stripping out the MMORPG from WOW and replacing it with some kind of boss rush loot grinder, akin to what we got with D3's shitty Rift system, though WOW has enough budget to add in new assets every 6 months.\

And this has been the case for the game since WOTLK, arguably earlier, that the game was streamlined for end game guilds, and every other MMO looks at WOW because "Whats the biggest MMO right now, oh of course its WOW, lets copy WOW" When in reality WOW has been ruining itself since vanilla with retarded changes like dungeon caps and raid lockouts, which didn't seem like a problem to most people because most people during that era were still leveling up through WOW's world content.

Then you have the korean nonsense, MTX is inherently bad for MMOs because it removes any sense of investment or acomplishment with the game's world, no one gives a fuck if you spent $20 on the latest new bikini armor for your waifu, but people also don't give a fuck about an MMO where the basic armor and weapons and gameplay are stuck behind a massive RNG grind, designed in such a way to get you to buy boosts and other MTX instead of making the game fun.

>FF14 before they butchered it
Before ARR? It looked even worse than 11 back then.

Colonel, whats wrong with you?

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Are you high? ARR had a massive down grade in graphics as part of the revamp

There's no real reason for it since multiplayer games are more advanced and offer better gameplay experiences.

people stopped socializing and demanded shit like auto-partying and dungeon finder

>waaah it's not an MMO
dumb boomer

Not it didn't.

Did they ever finish optimizing Wildstar? I remember folks complaining it ran like garbage with better specs than I had.

Yea, no. It looked like garbage.
Yes, it did.

If your game has less players then a game of battlefield 1942 on a single server shard, your game probably isn't an MMO.

Yes, this means that 90% of all MMOs aren't MMOs, but the sooner you fucks realize that genre is used as a marketing tactic, the sooner people will stop buying shit just because its mislabeled for marketing.

1.0 looked beautiful, and the animations in cutscenes where mocapped.

>MFW the real WoWkiller was WoW itself.

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WoW is actually doing fine financially

What was wrong with lockouts and dungeon caps?

It's true. I got gifted BFA by a friend and you can tell the game is made by completely different people from even "recent" expansions like Cata and MoP.

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>1.0 looked beautiful
Hardly

>50 people running across the map killing a rare boss mob that spawned, while not meaningfully interacting with each other at all
*sips* yep, feels like an a real MMO alright!

World of Warcraft

90% of the playerbase didn't reach end game during its most popular era, but 90% of the development cost and time went into end game.

Every MMO developer saw this and made games all about end game, not realizing that most people on WOW who did hit end game promptly quit because WOW's end game is shit

BDO

It's doing fine in general. It just isn't a king anymore. Hell, is Fortnite still even a king these days?

Anti-Social mechanics

People were bitching about raids being the only thing to do at end game and thanks to lockouts and size limits not everyone could get into them unless they commited to a guild like a job.

Is that why mobile exists?

We have 3 types of mmo

f2p aka asian grinder
>grindy as fuck
>sooner or later includes pay2win and later pay2evenbeabletoreasonableprogress cash shop
>whales get bored sooner or later and game dies

subscribtion type
>people pay per month and get fair game
>developing big ass game costs big ass money
>in order to thrive game gets easier and easier every expansion
>if it won't, game will die

buy2play
>based as fuck
>since developing big ass game is outside of reach due to lack of funding base game is so awesome people play it anyway even with lack of content
>it get's turned off years later and nothing can come close to it even today

After decade of MMO's assfaggots happened. Free with fair cash shop that includes only cosmetics. Decade later Fortnite happened which combine fun with free with fair.

Remake/copy of original Guild Wars never ever

>12 players in an instanced lobby
>"wow, i love mmos"

They all focused on 'end game' not realizing that 'end game' is when people fucking quit.

End game is a shitty thing to implement, even more so to focus on in a game that is supposed to be a living world run by players.

The fuck is wrong with you
youtube.com/watch?v=j-nmgLvTFD0

I want gw1 again so badly

I was on the Wildstar dev team and have posted this story a few times.

Wildstar failed because they decided they could rely on NCSoft money and copying Blizzard's design instead of having a stable content rollout. This is the same company that decided to put all development on one branch and dummy out incomplete features when it was time to release. The deathknell came from when super strict XP budgets were implemented for questlines, meaning that kill-counts had to be massively inflated to ensure the player was an appropriate level assuming they completed quests with zero detours. The biggest issue was Whiterun, where most people quit, because the zone was huge, empty, and had a giant difficulty jump nobody stuck around for due to being huge and empty. There was just a complete lack of planning for everything we did over there, leading to expensive crunches and feature re-designs and re-translations.

>washed out
>muddy
>"beautiful"
Yea, no.

>subscribtion type
But all of these are also p2w now, take WoW and FFXIV the biggest of those. They both have a cash shop, allows you to buy level skips, having unfair advantage like paying extra for retainers(ffxiv) or outright selling gold so you can progress faster (WoW).

>GW2
>BDO
>based as fuck
Next time, just say you like GW1.

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Your game was also an utter mess, the UI was a clusterfuck and the intro to the game did not do it any favors since it was covered with too many UI prompts and elements that made it impossible to get a grasp on what the fuck you were supposed to do and where to go.

This is one thing WOW did right starting out, you log in, you have auto attack and one ability on your bar, and a guy with a quest standing in front of you, from there you learned the game yourself.

This is the problem with designing your game around systems, and not around a core gameplay experience, WOW for example at its core was a basic ARPG set in an MMO world, and everything from its UI to its gameplay was designed around that, sure people installed a billion mods to automate things and clutter their UI, but that shouldn't be something you implement in your game baseline.

Hardly seems unfair. A waste of money and undermining the core value of sinking time and care into your build, but it's not like lootbox shit or whatever where you can actually get an advantage that nobody else ever can that requires you to gamble away loads of income.

I can actually believe this to be honest. Rip.

No, they never did.

a lot of things really
>people get bored
>chink mining
>chink mmo's
>fps online
>battle royal is the new thing
>market got satured
overall fornite, fps online and battle royal games

greed. corporate greed ruined it all.

>I was on the Wildstar dev team
You Carbine fuckers really managed to be worse than NCSoft and it was utterly amazing to see how much you kept fucking up with every Drop that was released. God I'm glad I quit before the Redmoon raid.

Oh I agree that the UI was over-engineered. Everything was half-baked because they came up with loony ideas and had to roll them back either due to lack of time or the Former-Blizzard devs insisting we stick to WoW's design. Originally you started the game in one of the tutorial zones instead of fucking around on the spaceship, but they really wanted a lore dump and a super-handholdy tutorial. Which of course required massive voice acting and art, which was then replaced with another Hologram tutorial which also took huge art resources. Did you know that Murkmire was 80% done with full questlines before the game came out? Then the director decided we had to focus on other areas, had the designers delete all the content, dropped a big forcefield over it, and forgot about it.

New MMOs can't compete with established games with 20 years of content

Post-release was the infamous Icecream Social, where they went ahead and laid off most of the people doing valuable work because of internal politics. Morons like Steve Frost (the guy that voiced the "Hardcore!" meme), the copy editors, and the engineering director were kept around. Meanwhile the Path team was completely demolished just as they finished their backlog and could do path overhauls, stuff like spawning weapons that anyone nearby can grab or turning any overworld quest into a Dungeon with difficulty and prizes.

Ok, here are my thoughts on the MMO genre:

To put it quite simple, it was replaced by lobby games such as World of Tanks, War Thunder, LoL and Dota.

Initially MMOs were very popular, because of their huge open more or less persistent world, which everyone had a small part in. The continuous streamlining of game mechanics and so called "quality of life" improvements caused everyone to congregate in the major hubs and only leave them for their daily PvP or PvE business. So major in game hubs simply degraded to glorified game lobbies. Everything after that was automatic. Everything outside the major hubs became deserted and the feeling of the huge persistent open world was lost. At the same time, lobby games offered better and more diverse gameplay, while allowing players to show even less commitment, e.g. switching playstiles in a lobby game is much easier than switching characters in a mmo, because you dont need to level them to max level, gear, etc.

>there will never be a good MMO that really is a proper roleplaying experience where we all live a different life in another world like in all the shitty mmo animus

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Its not even that, WOW became the 'golden boy' of the genre, despite the fact that every major change to WOW has been anti-MMO going as far back as the game's launch, people just didn't realize this until cataclysm because the initial leveling experience in WOW was such a big hook, but when they replaced that with a single player world and queues and meme questlines the hook was pulled out and people lost interest in the game unless they were part of the end game scene already

>insisting we stick to WoW's design
This is something people keep fucking up in all industries.
>X did this, so we should do the same!
Forcing yourself into a mold is how you make nobody actually want to play. Why would they play discount WoW when WoW already exists for a similar price point.

>replaced
But MMO has always been a niche genre, WoW is the only MMO that has been super popular and that is becaues normalfags love it.
If anything there's more people playing variation of MMO's now than ever before.

They tried to dethtrone WoW and all of them have failed.

>Watch the trailers
>Get hyped
>Play the game
>Uninstall
Does this actually work on people? Reel them in with an interesting trailer and then they'll just keep playing because they've already installed the game and uninstalling is too much work?

wh*te boys finally realized that grinding an mmo 18 hours a day wouldnt get them laid

Social interaction stopped being a novelty and MMOs stopped being able to rely on purely being job simulators and e-dick contests.

Apparently nobody got the memo.

>What happened to the MMO genre?
People stopped making MMOs and started making WoW clones. The result were nowhere near as good as WoW, because some small dev team isn't going to beat out Blizzard's spending money, so everybody folded outside the small few with huge names themselves (Final Fantasy) or the few niche Korean games.

And I'll note that Final Fantasy needed three attempts before they managed to not die.

As for the customer base, a lot of them were probably just casual gamers who logged in for the community and to do things with friends. I'm willing to bet that most just left MMOs entirely for MOBAs, and probably from there to just mobile games. So you don't even have the audience base for MMOs that you once had either.

>wow became diluted and broad, dropping any appeal it had to anyone
>wildstar failed because it tried to not do the same thing

Interesting argument, user.
Wildstar failed because ironically radical games, for lack of a better term, always fail. Almost everyone I met said the art style/tone put them off.

That was, and always will be, why the game failed.
It only lived as far as it did because it was free. People wanna think gamers are mature and able to look past such things if the game is good, but they can't. Gamers are fucking stupid, always remember that.

BDO is complete dogshit and the worst MMO/Game I've ever played.
Not one fucking redeeming feature. Name one and I'll tell you how it's dogshit.

It's still king of MMOs, not that it's saying much nowadays.

Too bad RS is a literal singleplayer game with more grind than your mom at a nightclub.

>Wildstar failed because ironically radical games
What are you talking about. It was just another streamlined wow clone but with the at-the-time trend of also having a dodge button. There was nothing radical about it. The most different shit it had was having everything telegraphed which wasnt as interesting as it sounded.

I give props to SAO for trying, too bad the games either have you be Kirito so it's not (You), or it's like IF where you're the silent protagonist.
IF would actually be OK, if it weren't mobileshit turned up to 100/10

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Aren't those a massive shitshow or something? Or am I thinking of some other MMO.

>wanted to play a social game with character customization and progression
>literally no option out there if you don't want to dish out enormous amount of money with monthly subscription

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>B-but my action combat meme
Yep, worst part about korean grinders, they make ARPGs and shove them into MMO worlds without implementing any core MMO features.

I am sick and fucking tired of the circle dodging meme that is the bread and butter of modern MMOs

Fishing

>no adventure
>nothing unique in the world
>a rush to get to max level
>nothing to do besides level
That's kind of what killed it, it's a bunch of generic quests that have no reason to be read, and a very set in place do exactly these quests and nothing else to get to max level as quickly as possible vibe.

It's not like it was when it was "fresh" where it was an adventure just to play it. Where getting a new piece of gear was actually worth something.

I cant stand how they have these theoretically fun combat systems, but the the enemies are just brain dead. And then PVP always turns out to be 100% in favor of better gear so its like whats the fucking point of even having combat like that. Fuck black desert

>mmo
It's not an mmo, it's a co-op online rpg.

>want to play an mmo
>just want a big fucking hammer
>none have any
This drives me nuts, there's giant two handed swords and axes, but no fucking hammers.

Almost any of these action combat games would be better off as a normal, offline game, but they want that cash shop money. A shame really.

Hollow Realization kind of does this shit. They never actually say Kirito and when you turn off his voice it helps. But it still feels weird because of the fact you are now with this massive harem who don't identify you as Kirito so it feels really out of context. But the combat is fun and I kind of wish there was a mmo I could play with a controller besides 14. Which I just can't get into anymore.

If it can be done with the game alt-tabbed, it's not even a feature.

>theoretically fun combat systems
The combat system involves the enemies. That's the problem. A game that has fun controls, a wide range of enemies, and a bunch of different scenarios to encounter them in, tends to be a lot of fun as you get to experiment and try out different things. Think Devil May Cry, or even God of War for a simple version. A game that has fun controls, but a small number of enemies and are encountered in a fairly dull situation tends to get very boring, especially when you are asked to replay the same fight over and over and over. DMC would be nowhere near as fun if you needed to get through the same exact fight 20 times just to make progress, even if it was an exceptionally fun or challenging fight, because by then the entire experience would just be route and boring.

That's the fundamental problem with MMOs. Regardless of what you are doing, they're going to ask you to repeat the same thing over, and over, and over. That's the entire gameplay loop. And outside anticipation at a drop or hitting a higher level, there is no real interest in the activity - even a challenging one is just repeating the same series of actions ad nauseum. So the combat isn't really going to be fun, regardless of how fun it might look, because you're just going to be using it to spam the same set of attacks endlessly in every fight, every day. Because that's how the game is designed to work.

Give it 5 years or so, VR games will revitalize the MMO in ways we can't even imagine yet.

>VR games will revitalize the MMO
>next round of VR games will start with Dead or Alive: Venus Vacation
>entire VR generation will just be shitty gacha games with zero gameplay and bouncing tits
I can imagine just fine.

That's all true, but I also think what I'm saying is true.

>Never got the harpoon
probably hasn't even gone whaling

>entire VR generation will just be shitty gacha games with zero gameplay and bouncing tits

I, for one, can't wait for Destiny Child VR

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Wrong pic...

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I think this will only happen when you connect with the matrix
VR as it is now (screen glasses) will never be a thing because it is limited
you need something to control with your mind

VR will not be the next gen of MMOs as long as their control scheme remains as limited as it is.

We won't see the anime meme of full VR MMO games until we can jack our brains into the internet, not because of the VR meme

There's a bunch of drama surrounding them, but they play just fine.

You never touched it did you? Wildstar war hardcore. Endgame required doing the equivalent of clearing all challenge mode dungeons in wow only to enter the first raid. The games difficulty was way above what the average shitter could handle. There were only a few raids and even among those half the players where carried by a small team. When they entered raiding they hit a wall again because carried shitters couldn't clear raids either correctly and carrying half the raid is way harder than just 1/5 people in dungeon.

People played until they hit the wall and then ragequit.

the most popular game nowadays are literally grinding simulators, except they play themselves

meant to quote

All I remember about wildstar is that shills bombarded Yea Forums woth threads depicting the character in the OP for months and when it came out that character looked NOTHING like that in game and had a long ass neck for some reason

I miss this "OSRS+" graphical style. Detailed without losing its soul like RS3 has.

Its almost as if, its almost as if MMOs are inherently a casual genre made for grinding with friends.

The difficulty meme in MMOs is really a shitty concept because eventually people will cheese it with mods or buy carries.

It's just a cashgrab, P2W.

>Make our game for .1% of the general MMO playerbase
>Ignore everything else
>"Why isnt anyone playing our game :((((("

Most of the fun in MMOs is helping your friends, and that doesn't happen if your MMO actively segregates its playerbase into skill levels via attunements and other bullshit.

This is why WOW is unplayable for new people, you grind through its shitty leveling system where you actually get weaker as you level up because everything scales now, then when you get to end game you're stuck in Dungeon/Raid Finder hell because you don't know what the fuck raider.io is, and if you even go out of your way to use it, you're still months behind the rest of the community so no one will take you to a M+ or Normal Raid PUG, and finding a good guild is fucking impossible because 90% of them are SGI spambots that raid for 2 nights and then AFK the rest of the expansion, or they don't recruit because its run by a group thats been playing for 15 years and are reference invites only.

fucking this. I realized suddenly that there's no joy in dashing through the same boring quests hoping for a lucky drop or just an incremental boost to XP. My theory is that MMOs only became huge because of the newness of the social aspect.

Hm quite an interesting assumption. Most likely it is true

Impatient NEET's and thin skin

The social aspect is the biggest part.

MMOs now are just a waiting game, you sit around waiting for some timer to reset so you can roll the dice again, and nothing you do actually involves working with other people, other people are just a necessity to get what you want, rather then a continence.

This is what vanilla WOW with all its flaws got absolutely right, you could solo through the game, but it was an absolute slog to do so, but if you meet another guy doing the same quest, its more beneficial to work together because 2 people killing the same mob will exponentially increase your clear speed, 2 guys hitting 1 mob greatly reduce the time needed to eat and drink after each pull because you're spending less time getting hit.

But every MMO today makes it super inconvenient to work with others, look at WOW, you can heal yourself with a GDC you can AOE cleave entire packs of mobs and you can chain pull entire zones without trying, it is faster for you to just ignore a random group invite to do the same world quest and just keep cleaving and chain pulling then it is to actually join a group, especially since kill credit is no longer a thing. And even if you join a group for an elite quest, there is no down time, you just sit there in the group, wait for the boss to respawn, merc it, and drop group and get phased away.

I quit WoW a few times and every time I came back I had people sucking my dick mid-dungeon in hopes I would join their guild, maybe you should set yourself apart from the rest of the shitters and you'll get that elusive "reference invite"

tl;dr - git gud, git invite

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Things that never happened for 100

>BDO releases new character, it's a loli
>welp, there's nothing bad in giving a try, maybe it's actually decent game
>censored to hell and back, even worse than Elins, and no way to uncensor them
And that's why the genre is dead.

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The last good guild I was in was in WOTLK and they invited me after I absolutely dumpstered their core DPS team with my rogue alt in an Onyxia 25 PUG

This doesn't happen anymore because guilds don't PUG, and crossrealm is a thing.

I just wish that OSRS would allow us to use different graphics. I don't want to play with the shittiest one available, would be ideal.

They became less and less about participating and interacting in a world, more about ~progress~ and raising a number in a database. Most MMO is now like going to a mall, lots of other people around but making no difference to you at all.

They may as well stop making any open world at all. There is a open niche in the market now for a lobby raiding game, just queue into raids and raid nonstop. May as well just remove the Potemkin illusion of a world and stop wasting dev time on it.

lalafell are the only "loli" race that has any legs because they're inherently just cute rather than sexy

There's no point in trying to make a sexy loli unless you're going all the way. You need to just make them cute.

min-maxing and how massive and accessible the internet is nowadays is what killed mmos. Early game is non existant and people just want to rush and get the best shit instead of having a good time with friends and learning together

min-maxing was around long before people started calling it a problem.

The problem is when developers design around min-maxers, WOW is run by min-maxers now, and is a prime example how you kill your game by making loot as unfun as possible.

ffxiv and wow dominate the paid + sub field.
People who localize korean f2p games overjew the english versions so they fucking die or only have a small whale population even if they're ok
Most of the good free ones also have private servers much better than the official english releases (like aura kingdom)
Most of the decent paid ones are only decent at one thing and ride hard on cash shop bonuses (bdo for instance)

A mmo needs to offer a variety of stuff to do besides just grind and most companies don't have the budget to do that properly. And a majority of the playerbase does not want to do endgame raids 24/7 and need other distractions that will make them feel accomplished. Like grinding rep or crafting and gathering and actual events in the world.

>play korean mmo
>hey this is pretty fun and the combat is actually engaging
>slam into a paywall at 100mph

It's always on the steam top sellers because of bots though right? I tried a free trial and while I kinda liked it, everything just felt like a worse Tera with prettier but less stylized graphics.

Online multiplayer became a standard feature of gaming as a whole and therefore lost its appeal as a special feature.

Full dive VR won't happen in our lifetimes.
Even the VR hardware we're going to have in 10-20 years will still be too shit for good MMO gameplay.

Also themeparks killed MMOs.
Just give me a full fantasy sandbox with insane customization.

There is no need to create content when players can just be social and BE the content. Make up their own stories.

Like just let players create and run their own empires and fight wars against eachter.

Let players be the mobs too. Want to be a orgre warlord and attack the next palyer run village with your minions? Sure why not.

I JUST DON'T SEE HOW THIS IS SO FUCKING HARD TO PULL OFF FUCK.
BUT NOOO WE NEED ANOTHER THEMEPARK YOUARETHECHOSENONE STORY WITH DAILIES AND RAIDS SUPERFUCKINGEPIC HURRR DURR.

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