Be honest, is Breath of the Wild in your top 20 games Yea Forums?

Literally not even in my top 50 games, it was extremely underwhelming
> 1. Zelda: Ocarina of Time
> 2. Panzer Dragoon Saga
> 3. SoulCalibur
> 4. SMT: Digital Devil Saga 2
> 5. Final Fantasy VI
> 6. Chrono Cross
> 7. Super Metroid
> 8. Chrono Trigger
> 9. Metroid Prime
> 10. Trails in The Sky SC
> 11. Mother 3
> 12. Shadow of The Colossus
> 13. Resident Evil 4
> 14. Super Mario World
> 15. Valkyrie Profile
> 16. Zelda: A Link To The Past
> 17. Super Mario Galaxy
> 18. Metal Gear Solid 3
> 19. Super Mario 64
> 20. Super Mario Galaxy 2
> 21. Trails in the Sky FC
> 22. Resident Evil (Remake)
> 23. Persona 2: Innocent Sin
> 24. Lunar: Eternal Blue
> 25. Final Fantasy X
> 26. Zelda: The Wind Waker
> 27. EarthBound
> 28. Final Fantasy IX
> 29. Bioshock
> 30. Metal Gear Solid 2
> 31. Journey
> 32. Street Fighter II Turbo
> 33. Silent Hill 2
> 34. NieR: Automata
> 35. Zelda: Majora's Mask
> 36. Perfect Dark
> 37. Okami
> 38. Metal Gear Solid
> 40. Portal
> 41. Super Mario Bros 3
> 42. Vagrant Story
> 43. INSIDE
> 44. Skies of Arcadia
> 45. Portal 2
> 46. Fatal Frame 2
> 47. Xenogears
> 48. The Last of Us
> 49. Final Fantasy VII
> 50. Uncharted 2

I strongly disagree with this sentiment too

I think BotW is really good as it is, and I think it's weird when people say "Yeah, it's good, but when the next game reintroduces [insert 3D Zelda staple here] it'll be way better" is wrongheaded when BotW purposefully tried to stay away from a stale formula.

how's high school

Some of those later ones in the 40-50 range are a bit iffy and I can see BotW replacing one of them. Rest of that list is solid.

Awful taste

I fucking wish i was still in High School, studying for college Entrance exams is a pain in the ass

Legit my #1 game. Ever.

Not even close. I’m not a huge Zelda fan, but BotW took everything I liked about Zelda and threw it in the trash. Huge disappointment for me all around

Seething BOTWfag, Old-Nintendo games are far better than the nu-Onions garbage

Nintendo for gay fag child

You're right, Zelda 1 and 2 are way better than OoT

Cope

Every game in this list is trash.

Seething PC-Drone, if i asked for your favorite games they would be all literal who & outdated PC garbage from the 90s

Absolutely.

onions/10

its in my bottom 20 along with FFXIII and XIII-2

Probably not but I'm not autistic enough to decide what my top 20 favorite games are and rank them in order so maybe I'm not really sure.

Cope, TLOU > BOTW

As it is, BotW rests entirely on the intrigue generated by the sheer quality of its basic system and mechanics interspliced within the Zelda mileau. It's great to play because it's Zelda, but with free form weapon useage and acquisition, a totally open world, a flexible completion order and indeed outright extent, detailed physics mechanics and so on.

Go any deeper than that and no, Breath of the Wild is not "really good" at anything. When viewed just from a standalone basis, Breath of the Wild is an incredibly imbalanced game that may have all the breadth of an ocean, but is belied by being as shallow as a puddle. Thus far I have encountered exclusively - exclusively - people who understand this issue immediately without any need to explain what the problems are, thus allowing conversation to leap straight to the "propose fixes and rebalances" stage. But I anticipate that this may not be the case here. I'm happy to go over examples - of which there are many - that riddle Breath of the Wild and making playing it a loose, vacuous experience saved only by the quality of its basic mechanics.

As for "reintroduce [insert 3D Zelda staple here]", I can't think of any examples commonly suggested besides variants of the hookshot, to which I can only respond - rightly so! There is a hookshot-shaped whole in BotW that the game sorely lacks. By now a flexible double-clawshot system that incorporates the best of every incarnation of the hookshot from Zelda, and its ersatz the Grapple Beam from Metroid, should be takeable for granted. Otherwise most discussion of increasingly similarity to past Zeldas centres on accomplishing classic Zelda feats with Breath of the Wild,which are the opposite of an element, but rather a superarching structure that happens to work magnificently and embody what we all like about the Zelda series - the glory of its dungeons.

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>Bioshock
Consider playing Deus Ex or System Shock 2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *breathes in* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Top 20? Yeah.

I'd even say top 10.

>thus

Fuck off you pretentious try hard faggot. I'm a veteran gamer who has been playing since the ATARI days. I don't need anyone to tell me what good vidya is.

If you're going to sit there and tell me that BotW ISN'T an exceptional gaming experience then you don't know jack shit about games kiddo.

Then you are a brainlet who shouldn't be allowed an opinion.

Probably. I'm loving the game right now, though there are some negatives to it. Rito, Goron, and I presume the Gerudo (didn't do it yet) storylines are far too short. Wish they were longer. I also wish you had more storage for weapons. I have the bow of light and Fierce Diety's Sword but don't have enough storage for other shit I don't want to waste.

Those games like most PC exclusives are outdated pieces of shit without any redeeming value, i've played every noteworthy game you could possibly recommend

>As it is, BotW rests entirely on the intrigue generated by the sheer quality of its basic system and mechanics interspliced within the Zelda mileau.
It doesn't, outside of its story. I have no affection for Zelda as a series and the game is good in its own right.
>Go any deeper than that and no, Breath of the Wild is not "really good" at anything.
Except it is. You actually list the things it does well in your post.
>Breath of the Wild is an incredibly imbalanced game that may have all the breadth of an ocean, but is belied by being as shallow as a puddle
Explain how when it clearly has more mechanical depth than 90% of modern AAA games. You even admit it yourself. In a game that is heavily focused around the interaction of its core mechanics, it has "quality [...] basic mechanics".
The Divine Beasts are far better designs that make way better use of large complex 3D spaces than any Zelda title before it.

I feel pity for you.

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Explain what is good about that game.

Probably my least favorite 3D Zelda

> Waaah he doesn't like my outdated piece of shit games that nobody cares about, iiiit has to be bait
Fucking cope

Sadly not. At least I don't think so.

definitely my favorite game, next to Bloodborne, for this decade

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I don't feel pity for you any longer, you're just an asshole.

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Jabu Jabu's Belly is literally the only flaw, everything else is perfect

Bloodborne with Co-Op is fucking awesome

>Breath of the Wild is an incredibly imbalanced game that may have all the breadth of an ocean, but is belied by being as shallow as a puddle

God shut the fuck up already

These buzzword criticisms didn't stick two years ago, they won't stick now

That doesn't explain what is good about it.

>I'm a veteran gamer
>but every game prior to BOTW is pure shit

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I like how he doesn't provide any arguments in his post. He just says a generic buzzword and then goes on and repeats himself with some synonyms.

It'd be on my list if the weapon system, enemy variety, and dungeon aesthetic and size were good.

It's a solid 6/10 tbqh sweetie

It's in my top 5. Been playing Zelda since ALTTP and I think it's easily the best game in the franchise.

Why are you pretending I said that?

Not that guy, but if I made any criticisms, you'd call me a snoy tranny and say I'm just nitpicking. For example, you don't have a single defense for the game's horrific framerate, and I fail to see why the season pass costs 20 dollars, ontop of a 60 dollar game. You know it cost them next to nothing to make, and they already made a fortune from the game. Why gouge me further with day one DLC?

See, you don't want to discuss these things, so it's quicker to call me a sony nigger faggot.

>story
Although BotW's story sticks firmly within the calcified staples of Zelda, for the most part it's relatively unorthodox for the franchise. Ganon doesn't have a normal human presence and never talks, Zelda is a ball of immature angst and the King is difficult with her, Hyrule is a post-apocalypse for the first time since LoZ 1 (WW not taking place in Hyrule). And for what it's worth, although the broad strokes of the plot are fine, the cutscenes and character moments of BotW are some of the worst in the series. The entire point here seems totally on its head.
>the game is good in its own right
Well, I disagree and have stated a summary of why. I'm happy to go into detail, and if you'd go into detail as to why you think to the contrary that'd be great as wel.
>You actually list the things it does well in your post.
I didn't list anything it does well. I listed ways the basic mechanics ARE done well. Huge difference. BotW's passive systems are wonderfully rich. BotW's active balance and challenges are a hot mess.

>Explain how when it clearly has more mechanical depth than 90% of modern AAA games
Most modern AAA games most or all of:
- freeform equipment with some sort of limitation like ammunition, wear, carrying space
- physics
- very open structure, whether completely open world or not (note that BotW is not a complete open world)
- many diverse random things
Your default AAA game is pretty much identical to BotW in this mold - if there are any areas where BotW has more than a given AAA example, you can find an equivalent the other way. This includes
- crafting systems, conspicuously absent from BotW
- weapon shops, conspicuously absent from BotW
- armour working like weapons as an item with wear and tear, conspicuously absent from BotW
- inventories that use space and/or weight of items over arbitrary categories
- more complicated healing systems than infinitely-lasting foods that can be infinitely carried and heal straight away
- etc.
- etc.

Because you blindly attack people for saying that they prefer other games to BOTW? Shoot, you called someone a high schooler for not having BOTW in their top 20 games. see

Not him but I like the game and I agree that those are bad things.

>I-I'm reasonable, honest!
Calling bull on that, especially when I've been attacked for having those very same criticisms in other threads. Don't try and damage control now. Don't attempt to damage control 3 years of shitposting.

>In a game that is heavily focused around the interaction of its core mechanics
BotW is totally unfocussed. The "core mechanics" are completely optional.

>The Divine Beasts are far better designs that make way better use of large complex 3D spaces than any Zelda title before it.
The Divine Beasts are tiny, extremely similar to each other and the 128 shrines, and ultimately tiny.

I'm amazed at the kind of petty defensiveness normally absent from these threads that seems to be here today.
>"generic buzzwords"
Really.

Completely correct, the kind of posts I'm responding to are the embodiment of weird consolewar fags that get haughty when their "baby" is criticised.

Yep. I loved it.

Not even in my top 100 it's the worst 3D Zelda game.

Why not just finish it when you start getting bored? That's what I did. It's the beauty of the format. You do however much you want and then finish it at any time with a nice cap off to the experience.

Top 50 at best, it has too many flaws that everyone forgives because it's a Nintendo game

I finished it the other day. Hitting all 4 beasts should take about two or three hours total, and then I just fucking shit all over Ganon.
>Revali's Gale
>Slowmo bow that bitch
>He phase switches
>Revali's Gale
>Slowmo bow that bitch... again.
>He just kinda fuckin dies

>big monster Ganon now
To be fair I rode the motorcycle around him and that made the fight kinda way cooler to partake in.

lol no

>really
>The game is shallow! It is a loose vacuous experience!
This is the entirety of your post, disregarding crying that there isn't a hookshot to trivialize climbing and then finishing off that dungeons aren't long enough.

Probably

>using hookshots to trivialize climbing bad
>using revali's gale to trivialize climbing good!

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The game's story clearly borrows heavily from the world established in previous Zelda games, and that's really what ties it to the rest of the series. I agree that the story does do certain things different, and it isn't very good, but the same is true of all previous 3D Zeldas.
>I disagree and have stated a summary of why
You just said "it's as deep as a puddle" without going into why and conceding that its core mechanics are strong, which is the focus of the game and the thing that gives it depth.
>I didn't list anything it does well.
You did here:
"free form weapon useage and acquisition, a totally open world, a flexible completion order and indeed outright extent, detailed physics mechanics and so on"
>BotW's active balance and challenges are a hot mess.
Its main flaw balance-wise is too many spaces to consume food. In ways, the game actually goes out of its way to balance its mechanics. It even takes the risk of potentially frustrating players in order to balance combat (weapon degradation).
Explain how those vague universal features of practically most games have interacting core mechanics as multifarious and unique as BotW.

Point out in my post where I said that it's good. I can wait all day.

See I don't see you being accepting of any criticism or accepting any flaws.

Revali's Gale is a very limited resource with three goes and then a long period until you can use it again. Having a hookshot you could use on climbing surfaces without limit would clearly be different.

>Fuck no

Shallow, loose and vacuous are not buzzwords.
There was a lot more to those few posts than merely what limits Breath's potential as a game.
Those posts are explicitly a summary and I have extended a more detailed discourse twice now; here's a third.
>a hookshot to trivialize climbing
I don't know what to tell you, the climbing in BotW is the entry you find in the dictionary when you look up "trivial". There's so much more to a developed hookshot system than just "climbing", which I think you'd perceive more if you had a broader experience of Zelda games. And if anything, having a hookshot present would serve as a way to make the climbing significantly less trivial than it already is - which is badly needed, because it is trivial.

We could go into detailed discussion now, or not. Your call.

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BotW clearly has flaws but you're unable to articulate them.

So being able to blatantly break the game is good as long as there's a timer involved? By that logic hookshots would be good if they implemented a timer into them.

>45. Portal 2
>50. Uncharted 2
>31. Journey
>48. The Last of Us
Lol

seei articulated two points clearly, and I got called a snoy tranny as a result. Thank goodness I didn't talk about the issues with combat, or someone would've told me to dilate or go back to resetera.

You are that guy that legit spazzes out anytime someone says something good about BoTW though

How can you accuse people unable to accept criticism when people say they liked/loved it makes you flip your shit

>stale formula
It wasn't stale, though.

>So being able to blatantly break the game is good as long as there's a timer involved?
Your sentence doesn't make sense because the timer is the thing that prevents it from breaking the game.
>By that logic hookshots would be good if they implemented a timer into them.
I suppose. It would be very different from hookshots as conceptualised in previous Zelda games, though. Then again, BotW even gave the Master Sword a timer...

>You are that guy that legit spazzes out anytime someone says something good about BoTW though
Starting flame wars and console war bullshit =/ praising BOTW.

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I'm sorry to say but it really was. Zelda games no longer held any sense of wonder because it fell into the same lame item progression structure

Let me ask you this then: why would it be bad to have a hookshot? For someone who claims to be an expert about good game design, you seriously can't contemplate a way of implementing it?

Here's an idea for starters: make the hookshot reliant on your current stamina. Boom, now it can't break climbing and you still need to look out for how much stamina you have left, but now climbing is a little less tedious.

Don't be sorry, you're fully entitled to your wrong opinion.

>For someone who claims to be an expert about good game design
I don't
>you seriously can't contemplate a way of implementing it?
I haven't really thought about it, I just applied the hookshot as it worked in the previous Zelda games to BotW and can see that it would obviously trivialise climbing (though I wasn't the guy who originally said that). You yourself came up with a better way of implementing it, with a timer.
The stamina idea is also alright but wouldn't really make sense
I disagree that the climbing is "tedious", it's just meant to be a slow struggle. It suits the game's ambience and slow, calm pace of traversal.

How am I wrong?

>The stamina idea is also alright but wouldn't really make sense
Why not? It perfectly sates your worry of it making climbing too easy, since you still need to manage your stamina, but now you don't have to spend 20 minutes climbing a mountain. There's a difference between a game asking you to be slow and steady, and the game asking you to basically wait for no reason. And that's what most climbing is. It's basically tedium. A hookshot would be great to cut that time down, without removing any of the skill necessary. You're not magically regaining your stamina or keeping it without expending effort.

Shoot, other games I've played used hookshots perfectly, because they have far better implementation of terrain traversal.

Because I disagree with you.
>Zelda games no longer held any sense of wonder because it fell into the same lame item progression structure
Is wrong. That's how.

No

1. Pathologic 2
2. Pathologic
3. The Void
4. Silent Hill 2
5. Yume Nikki
6. Majora's Mask
7. Shadow of the Colossus
8. Thief: The Dark Project
9. Planescape: Torment
10. ICO
11. Victoria II
12. ANATOMY
13. Kentucky Route Zero
14. Riven: The Sequel to Myst
15. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
16. A Link to The Past
17. System Shock 2
18. The Cat Lady
19. Crusader Kings II
20. Katamari Damacy

That's why the "hookshot stamina" idea probably wouldn't make a lot of sense, other than working like a bigger version of the "jump" you do which depletes a big chunk of stamina when you climb. Because there is a reason why climbing is slow. It's because the game wants to make you feel like you're actually interacting with land of a massive scale, and climbing a mountain IRL is a long struggle.

Do you not find that it makes the games a bit more predictable when they rely on a formula that has been done numerous times before? Because that just seems like an observable fact, to me

>It's because the game wants to make you feel like you're actually interacting with land of a massive scale, and climbing a mountain IRL is a long struggle.
i don't like playing video games for realism, and any means of cutting down on tedium should always be a welcome change of pace. Being able to traverse a mountain much faster than when I first started out is just more fun to me, because it shows progress. If I wanted to traverse a mountain IRL, I would construct a better method of doing so, to the point of maybe even getting a helicopter or an airplane. I wouldn't want to climb the mountain "for the experience". That gets old fast.

>borrows heavily from the world established in previous Zelda games
An understatement, it's set squarely in the middle of the Zelda territory, but true.
>ties it to the rest of the series
The thing is, Zelda's characterisation has always been one of self-assurety and control, and willingness to sacrifice herself for the good of everyone. Her personality arc has never been one of doubt and confusion. Ganon, as already noted, is absent as a character. He's no more present that Bowser's RPG character is in an NSMB game. And with those two down, there's basically nothing to tie BotW's plotline to Zelda. Link has to save Hyrule from Ganon - Mario has to save Mushroom Kingdom from Bowser. X has to save Y from Z. It's nothing specific to Zelda.

What ACTUALLY ties BotW to Zelda is the present of Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Rito, Koroks, Bokoblins, Moblins, Lizalfos, the Master Sword and so on. Of these, Gorons and Gerudo are pretty distinctive and their prescence, which cannot appear in other titles by definition, is a boon to BotW. The other things are pretty much just distinctive copywrited versions of stock archetypes, and almost any fantasy adventure could have them. There isn't even that much consistency with previous Zelda titles - such as Zora living extraordinarily long lives, or Bokoblins and Moblins being retarded cavemen. Between that and relative superficialities like using Hearts to measure health, what's left of a Zelda connection is chiefly the knowledge that it's Nintendo who is making it. But Nintendo makes a whole raft of games, and after a certain point one can scratch the "Zelda" lick of paint off of one title and the "Metroid" or "Donkey Kong" or "Wario" lick of paint off of some others and see some pretty similar games. Not always, but definitely sometimes.

>You just said "it's as deep as a puddle"
Wildly disingenuous to keep repeating this

1/3, there's a lot to unpack in this one post

>without going into why
Have you asked for/accepted a back and forth yet? For now you seem to be stuck on "state overly simplistic summary and behave standoffish" mode and have not accepted any of three offers for a detailed discussion.
>conceding that its core mechanics are strong
There's no concession here, and strong is an in-apt adjective for something so passive a feature. Sticking to a neutral adjective like "high quality" is at least accurate - and if you want something more specific, try rich or fullsome. There's a lot to Breath's mechanics, but they're not put to any great use.

>"free form weapon useage and acquisition, a totally open world, a flexible completion order and indeed outright extent, detailed physics mechanics and so on"
You don't seem to understand the distinction between active and passive virtues. I've been over this in this exchange already, and perhaps it would be more edifying to cover this point with more focus and detail before addressing any further topics, since this distinction is pretty fucking important.
>Its main flaw balance-wise is too many spaces to consume food.
Which is to say both recovery items AND stat boosters.
And too many spaces to carry weaponry
And having 0 - *0* restrictions on carrying and switching between clothing, gears and armours
And having access to extremely powerful infinite use rune abilities, that the player cannot skip, right from the beginning of the game
And the reward for clearing lots of shrines being that the final boss is a pushover
And the master sword being given away as a freebee for the player having already become strong enough that the game isn't a challenge
And ditto for how the Divine Beast quests and rewards work
And so on
And so on
And so on
This is not an exhaustive list. This dipping one' toes in the ocean of BotW's imbalance problems. I'll happily fish for more when you signal an interest in discussion.

2/3

> It even takes the risk of potentially frustrating players in order to balance combat (weapon degradation).
Would you even understand if I told you that I laughed out loud when I read that?

>Explain how those vague universal features of practically most games
... the very ones BotW has?
>interacting core mechanics as multifarious and unique as BotW.
... they're exactly the same as BotW?
Maybe you don't follow what mechanics means as a term. The Magnesis rune is not "mechanics". Mechanics are the passive features of a game. Magnesis is an ability. An active feature. This is again just a beginning of scratching the surface of where your misunderstandings appear to be stemming. (and/or another user, there's a few in this thread)

3/3

Very well said. Personally, I think the lack of challenge is the biggest issue. like you say, the mechanics in place don't punish you for complacency, and the game doesn't scale enough to push you back. If you max out your hearts, nothing can kill you. You can tank even endgame lynels and the final boss and just laugh it off, assuming you aren't chugging buff items and OP armor, and let's not forget the infinite healing by food.

Genuinely dislike the game a lot but I assume no one believes me due to console war bullshit instead of just not liking everything that it does.

Isn't this just an IGN list copy/pasted?

The game does give you methods of traversing mountains faster, mainly Revali's Gale. In general the game never wants the player to feel like it's just a toy. You're always presented with some form of challenge and limitation/rule, since that's what games are meant to do. Mountain climbing and weapon degradation are a big part of that. With climbing, they wanted to make it so that you're faced with a slow struggle that is rewarded afterwards with an easy descent (climbing to the top of a mountain to get a view of surroundings, then gliding down to a shrine/point of interest). The entire game seems focused on making the player actually feel the size of its world, the player slowly moving through its terrain, and climbing was a good way of doing that i m o. Just Cause has super-fast hookshots because it's a fast paced explosion-based game. BotW doesn't because the mood and themes of the game wouldn't suit it.

Great list! Should I jump into Pathologic 2 since it’s popular right now or play 1 first?

Why should I care about the size of the world, though? When I finished the game, I HATED how big the world was. When I unlocked the shrines, I just fast traveled everywhere because I held nothing but contempt for the game being way too slow and just not offering me enough to walk and climb through the world. If the game truly wanted me to appreciate it, it wouldn't try and dictating how I would have fun. It would give me a few more options for movement, instead of sniffing its own farts and claiming that I just "don't get it". Forget that.

>Just Cause has super-fast hookshots because it's a fast paced explosion-based game. BotW doesn't because the mood and themes of the game wouldn't suit it.
Zelda would've benefited from being a fast paced explosion based game. You can tell me I'm having the wrong kind of fun all you want, but I still had more fun with it than I did with Zelda.

Just because you're shit at exploration doesn't mean BotW's map isn't dense for the most part. It just means, well, that you're shit at exploration.

Shit at exploration? What does that mean? I should enjoy tedious climbing that yields a proportionally small reward? And guess what, it's not even difficult to climb everything. Thanks to the oversight of being able to eat stamina food while climbing, I can go anywhere without any difficulty whatsoever, and that's not fun to me. I need a challenge. I need a hard barrier telling me that I'm not allowed here unless I'm more skilled or need to work harder or progress into the story. This "you can go anywhere anytime" angle results in the world feeling too weak. There's no scaling difficulty, so you never feel like you're making progression. Climbing is definitely the biggest perpetrator of this, as you're still climbing at the same speed as when you first started, and the boredom never subsides.

I mean seriously, a motorcycle doesn't break immerson to you, but a hookshot somehow would.

Nope. OOT and MM are my top 2 though.

Yes

>You don't seem to understand the distinction between active and passive virtues. I've been over this in this exchange already, and perhaps it would be more edifying to cover this point with more focus and detail before addressing any further topics, since this distinction is pretty fucking important.
You yourself haven't bothered to explain them. I've talked about balancing though, since that seems to be the main issue to you.
>And too many spaces to carry weaponry
They're fairly limited without korok seeds
>And having 0 - *0* restrictions on carrying and switching between clothing, gears and armours
True
>And having access to extremely powerful infinite use rune abilities, that the player cannot skip, right from the beginning of the game
They aren't actually that strong and can be difficult in practice, which is why melee-range-rune ability designed to be complementary to one another. Balanced.
>And the reward for clearing lots of shrines being that the final boss is a pushover
Yes, the player puts in the work and that is his reward. That's not a balancing issue.
>And the master sword being given away as a freebee for the player having already become strong enough that the game isn't a challenge
Doesn't change the fact that the Master Sword remains an immortal weapon, unlike anything else in the game (but still with a recharge limitation, because the game goes the extra mile to balance its combat).
>Would you even understand if I told you that I laughed out loud when I read that?
Yeah, you're a weirdo who takes online criticisms of video games weirdly personal. I would rather you just explained to me why that isn't the case, but you don't want to for whatever reason
>... the very ones BotW has?
By virtue of it being a game and those vague aspects being applicable to a lot of games, yes.
>... they're exactly the same as BotW?
Yeah because they're vague as shit and can apply to a lot of things.
(1/3)

>Point out in MY post
>My only post says nothing about the gale being good
Reminder guys, shallow is valid criticism even if you cannot actually validate your criticism.

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If I may interrupt to make one point.

>Yes, the player puts in the work and that is his reward. That's not a balancing issue.
the final boss should be difficult no matter what. That means he should actively scale to your level, even if you grinded to get there. Why does he get weaker? Do people find it fun fighting final bosses that don't fight back?

>Shallow, loose and vacuous are not buzzwords
They are, because they mean nothing if you don't elaborate.
>This game is shallow
>Why is it shallow
>because it's loose and vacuous
Yeah, nice elaboration you dumb cunt.
>You look up trivial
You cannot be so bad that climbing is tough for you.

Your distinction between "passive" and "active" features seem arbitrary. Jumping is as much a mechanic as Magnesis is.
2/2

Put 1/3 on previous post, my bad

>Reminder guys, shallow is valid criticism even if you cannot actually validate your criticism.
Meanwhile, earlier in the thread.

>guys, BOTW is the best ever because every other game is shallow dogshit
>shallow only matters as an argument when "I" say it

:thinking:

I've never seen anyone put Chrono Cross ahead of Chrono Trigger, so no

Yeah, probably somewhere around 4th, after donkey Kong country, Splatoon 2 and monster Hunter tri ultimate.

Seething hipster, those are good games

>My only argument is that my buzzwords are validated because someone likes something
I really am arguing with children. where the fuck can I discuss video games with people who can think and reason better than goldfish?

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Yes, it's even in my top 10.

The game makes a point of showing you that you can (try to) beat Ganon whenever you want. You fight him when he isn't hard for you because that is the point of the game. You're accruing more health, stamina and better weapons in order to match Ganon. Or, you can "git gud" and try to beat him as early as possible.
You can dislike that design philosophy, but I don't see how it's an issue of balance when that's clearly the game's intent and it works fine.

Name one thing wrong with Portal 2

Havnt played it, should my first (probably only) play through be with all dlc?

No they aren't, normie.

>My only argument is that my buzzwords are validated because someone likes something
And what mature arguing skills have you demonstrated to put you above these children that you speak of? Calling people snoys for criticizing the framerate? Telling them to go back to resetera and high school if they said they didn't like the DLC or other elements?

Please, regale us.

Who are you to decide that it "works fine" and yet no other game in existence gets that excuse? If I said the same thing about HOrizon or the Witcher or any other open world game, you would've posted at least 20 angry sony wojaks before I even hit submit. So what magically makes BOTW immune from all criticism, while other games fall short?

DUDE CAVE JOHNSON
DUDE LETS RUIN GLADOS
DUDE POTATOES

The majority of Yea Forums hasn't played 20 games.

Thank you - I've written an awful lot about about BotW and Zelda general here and a few other places too, and it's always nice to see the usual crowd who gets it is in attendance.

Keeping this again at a summary-level assessment, since an entire detailed analysis could easily sink multiple threads back to back - yes there is definitely a lack of challenge, as an end goal of any game tied with the "scenario" of the game. In terms of scenario, Breath is pretty good for the most part. Scenario concerns all fluff factors like variety and range of intriguing content, the ability to experience a rich and creative world and so on. Breath could be improved but it's minor, usually by firing whoever it is at Nintendo who chooses the english VAs, and whoever is responsible for designing the Mexican telenovella-tier cutscenes in general. But it's polish really since the world looks gorgeous and has some many different environments.

More enemies would be great, as an example of a point that would improve both scenario and challenge. Having different elemental versions of Keese and the like is a start, but it's limited to only the weak enemies, plus a single middling-to-weak variant of Lizalfos. It would be better for instance if any homonid enemy could have a large glass flask of coloured liquid on their hip. If they see you coming, they start downing it, and for the next 2:30 they are now fiery or icey and so on. Other potions may increase speed or offensive power and so on. This increases variety as well as providing an intuitive, non-arbitrary reason to take out enemies quickly and stealthily before they power up to kingdom come. If an enemy has a wooden flask, hit them with a fire attack to burn their flask. If it's metal, electocute them to zap the flask off of them. If it's glass, an ice arrow will shatter the flask. Natural and intuitive.

1/3

No I've never played it

Enemies like Wizzrobes can work purely by the type of Rod they wield, and have no need to be themselves "elemental" since it has no impact on gameplay. Wizzrobes would benefit greatly from having regular strength tiers like the rest of the game's enemies, complete with drops, varied weapon loadouts, and a hood from Kilton. This is just divulging outloud on a single thread that can be followed which would immensely improve the weave and weft of BotW and hypothetically its sequel.

A big part about why this stands out is that it's immensely doable for Nintendo. Think about the amount of resources that go into random mini-games in BotW. Surfing challenges or something to do with horses and so on. Totally not important or relevant to the game, and not in the slightest why anyone picks up or plays Zeldas ever. If these features were completely absent, it wouldn't hurt Zelda at all, and it certainly wouldn't hurt BotW as a game resting on post apocalypse as its distinctive plot point. Zelda 1 didn't have any minigames; that was a good thing. Much of the effort spent on overwrought and cringeworthy cutscenes and terrible recording dialogue could be redirected into these simple game challenge balance features that would bear vast fruits on the entire experience.

Another simple example to capitalise in you mentioning the problem with hearts: 30 hearts isn't so OP if you have next to no armour. And having ridiculously rich armour isn't so OP if you're on no more than 5 hearts. But having both is insane. So instead make spirit orbs a currency at Great Fairy fountains. Upgrading an item of clothing grants it a number of Orb slots, just like Badge points in Paper Mario and Materia slots in FF7 - all systems that worked well and for good reason. Then for a given armour you attach Orbs at the fountain to grant upgrades within a range fitting that garment. Re-arrange Orbs the next time you visit.

2/3

ok but now try posting a real criticism instead

Barbarian Helmet
- Improve Defense by +4 - 1 Spirit Orb each
- Improve Attack by 10% - 1 Spirit Orb each
- Critical strikes bonus - 2 Spirit Orbs
- Charge attack stamina bonus by 4/5 - 1 Spirit Orb each

Headgears grant the greatest stat bonuses. Torso armours grant the best defenses. Legwear grants movement oriented bonuses.
A natural balance is engendered as Link will only have so many high grade clothings available at a time, and yet will still want to switch tactically to others, even if he doesn't presently have many Orb bonuses equipped.
Aquiring more Orbs allows for better bonuses, if the player is willing to tradeoff improving their Hearts or Stamina.
Ideally a player who fully maxes out their HP and stamina will have no more than 4 slightly improved garments or 1 very improved garment.

There are all sorts of easy ways that Nintendo could use to vastly up BotW's game, all at their fingertips. The question is if its aging and complacent creative leaders will ever feel the need to do so over forcing the entire company to indulge their vanity projects, or if their feet can be held to the fire so they keep focussed or retire and stop getting in the way.

3/3

Master Mode is pretty bad, it encourages you to ignore most enemies and to learn full exploits to rush enemies down as fast as possible when you do have to fight.

Maybe you're already at that point but I miss when Lynels and Major Test Guardians intimidated me at all. And even then it's such a slog to fight inflated HP, REGENERATING monsters that you won't fight anything weaker even for fun. And of course most alternative combat methods don't scale.

BotW's greatest flaws are lack of enemy variety, lack of reward variety and lack of big set piece dungeons. Most complaints center around the disappointment of exploring for "another Korok/Shrine" or of how Shrines are neat but 100 of them wear thin and almost none of them are big enough to go anywhere interesting with their ideas. Despite all that it is very popular and even many detractors recognize the good systems work.

There's some design decisions that break up the mold like "you get all your major tools and spells in the first two hours of the game" but for all the benefits of that(you can really go anywhere) there's downsides(you'll never find anything as meaningful as those first five pick ups again excluding some of the Champion spells.) Working in hookshots, misc spells, power braclets, new slate spells, etc would pepper the world with things you can find and rewards greater than "another damn shrine." And I like the shrines myself.

If BotW2 just adds 8 full blown huge dungeons with puzzles and an armful of Zelda collectables with the BotW attention to system detail and some real god damn meaty mid-tier enemies and bosses it'll be the best in the series by a mile.

I think that to get a lot of enjoyment from botw you need to have a very active imagination. If you're more of an autistic person and you're looking for very directed experiences that force emotional responses and rewards on you then you won't get much out of it. I also think your attitude going in is important. You shouldn't abuse fast travel and you should be willing to go off the beaten path and explore.

>Who are you to decide that it "works fine" and yet no other game in existence gets that excuse?
I'm not really taking other games into account, just the design philosophy of BotW on its own, which seems the fairest way to criticise it.
>If I said the same thing about HOrizon or the Witcher or any other open world game, you would've posted at least 20 angry sony wojaks before I even hit submit.
Those games don't have the same intent as BotW, and I would never post that gay meme shit
BotW isn't immune from criticism. It has numerous flaws (korok seed puzzles are mostly uninteresting, shrine and divine beast aesthetics are repetitive, the final bore boss sucks, combat shrines suck and there's way too many of them, the story is shit, parts of the gameworld do feel extraneous, you can abuse Revali's Gale in certain places that cheapen level design, etc.). I just like to make sure that criticism makes sense

I find it all cringeworthy and unfunny, therefore making the game worse.

Not even close. It was average with a lot of missed potential. The BotW sequel might become one of my favorite games though if it fixes the flaws BotW had.

Shut the fuck up or im gonna burn your house down with my lemons.

I like your idea on the spirit orbs, but personally I think they should've cut them down by 3/4ths. That way every shrine would guarantee you a greater amount of rewards. Think about it, only 30 shrines total on the map, but every one is like a dungeon, maybe 3-4 times longer than your regular shrine. It would really make finding them worthwhile. As it stood, I stopped looking for shrines once I got enough stamina because, not being challenged at all, I went for a three heart run on my most recent playthrough to hope that I wouldn't steamroll the game, and after a point I didn't care about the spirit orbs because they stopped offering me incentives to get them. Making them more useful and versatile would've been fun.

>BotW isn't immune from criticism. It has numerous flaws
Would you like to explain why the threads have said otherwise for 3 yearS? Why every BOTW thread prior to this one has been nothing but a giant circlejerk of metacritic scores and the same 5 images talking about how developers and journalists all love BOTW, with a nice sprinkling of angry wojaks in each image?

If you ask me, this "oh we can take criticism, we promise" garbage comes across as damage control, which has come 3 years too late. The other guy I'm responding to gave a massive detailed explanation as to his gripes with BOTW, and he doesn't even call it shit. He approaches it fairly with consideration to the game's strengths. But you can bet nobody here will give him the time of day, because they can't conveniently twist him into a sony supporter.

The humour and story in general is worse than the first game, yeah

The co-op is legitimately great, though, and possible one of the best co-op games of all time

This argument is really funny because any mildly experienced BotW player just cooks single servings of +max stamina food and spams X up that bad boy like they're Spider-man. I hope BotW2 does some serious rework of the few systems it has that don't work.

If you make legitimate criticism about botw like it should have bigger dungeons or underground or whatever no one will disagree with you. If your complaint is "this game is garbage, not fun at all worse than skyrim" for one of the highest rated games ever then you're a retard and will be called out.

>If you make legitimate criticism about botw like it should have bigger dungeons or underground or whatever no one will disagree with you.
Don't give me that user. Every time I did make those kinds of criticisms, you know what I was met with?

>haha look at this salty snoy fag! he can't appreciate kino puzzles!
>older Zelda dungeons were bad too, stop complaining!
>0000 days since Yea Forums complained about BOTW! XD

Have you ever actually been in a BOTW thread and seen fanboys react to criticism?

>"this game is garbage, not fun at all worse than skyrim"
Did anyone in this thread do that, though?

is there a stamina equivalent of a durian?

I think you're confusing Yea Forums as a conglomerate when it's just a bunch of different people. As you can see, I personally have a lot of qualms with BotW, even though it's a game I really like. I've also been responding to that guy and while he does make decent criticisms in the instances you quote, the rest of the time he isn't so much.
I can't explain the habits of a bunch of random people over the last three years, but dividing it into "BotW fans who won't accept any criticism vs BotW haters who don't find anything good about the game" seems a massive oversimplification.

But the shrine puzzles did have a ton of variety to them and a lot of them were clever. If you want to complain about the aesthetics of the shines being samey that's one thing,

nah, top 50 maybe. it is the closest zelda game to my top 20, but not good enough to me to make it

Whats a good site for making lists of games?

Anything that says "increases your max stamina." So I think there's a fish, there's endura carrots and at least one bug(so bug + any monster part.) If it gives gold stamina meter it'll refill the green at the same time.

microsoft excel

Yes, top 5 easily

I'm on my 3rd or 4th full replay with my gf.

Most, if not all, of the shrine puzzles were one note gimmicks. And that's not even getting into the combat shrines, which never had variety in the opponents you face. If I recall, it's the exact same enemy in every single shrine, but he maybe does a little more damage, or he has more health.

>I think you're confusing Yea Forums as a conglomerate when it's just a bunch of different people.
Seeing thread after thread of people jerking off BOTW's metacritic score, and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON standing up and criticizing these circlejerks will make you hate both the zealots and the moderates of the fandom, especially when the moderates are passive aggressive and pretty much support the zealots without question.

But I want a searchable database for quick list making

>Most, if not all, of the shrine puzzles were one note gimmicks.
Reducing a puzzle's complexity down to the count of gadgets you need to complete it is asinine. That's like calling a rubicks' cube a "one note gimmick."

>Most, if not all, of the shrine puzzles were one note gimmicks.
A lot of them were well-designed and allowed the player to use their creativity, with multiple solutions etc. A lot of the time they do attempt to make the player focus on and learn one mechanic, or one way that mechanics may interact, though, which is why they can seem "one-note". But it's really how they all build on one another non-linearly that makes them interesting an fun. By doing them in an order of his choosing, the player is working out the game and its mechanics in his own way, and can experiment and complete them in his own way.

yes.

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Glitcheave

The puzzles never ask you to think laterally or use your abilities in ways you wouldn't imagine. It's basically just the same block puzzles we've been using for ages, maybe easier. Half the puzzles had stupidly broken solutions, like the infamous maze that you could turn upside down and insta-win with the flat bottom. I didn't consider that clever at all, and found it REALLY stupid, especially since you can't complete it without gyro and I hate gyro as a control scheme.

obligatory

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>He put the album cover of the same name by the metal band for SotC

seeThey just don't require any thinking whatsoever, even if you do them the intended way. When I see a puzzle a game, I want something that I'm gonna spend hours thinking over. I don't want some baby trash that I'm gonna solve in 5 seconds.

>supplies an example of thinking laterally to exploit an unintended solution to the problem
>"but that doesn't count they never ask you to think outside the box"
Yeah I'm going to stop taking you seriously, now.

The autist who spams anti-botw threads routinely says that skyrim is an example of a good open world game and that its much better than botw.

>The puzzles never ask you to think laterally or use your abilities in ways you wouldn't imagine.
They do, though. The game is practically screaming at you to use its physics to complete puzzles in unforseen ways.
What's stupid about that gyro puzzle? It's not "broken", most players wouldn't think to do that

Top 20? Maybe

I don't know if it's in my top 20. I like that they changed up the formula, but I think they took away too much of the gameplay that made it a Zelda game. I think they could have went in the direction they did and still preserve the core gameplay. Literally just condense the map, and use the freed up dev time to add more intricacy and nuance to what is there. 8 temple format doesn't make sense? Fine, make the whole WORLD a dungeon that we have to figure out, and weave the old school temples into that. Fuck I hope they go this route with 2, but I fear they will double down on the open world exploration meme.

no but it's top 50 easy. great game

if you look closely I even put come fucking spanish guide for OoE, I really could not bother looking for better pics

>having played over 20 games
get a life

But that's the thing, it's an exploit. To even get there, you have to wrangle with the retarded gyro for a minute, almost like they didn't want you to do that. If they intended that as an alternate solution, it would've been much easier to implement. Or maybe gyro is just a trash control scheme. I'd accept that too.

You can bet if any other game had that kind of exploit in it, people would be shitting on the dev as incompetent. It just screams double standard.

The enjoyment of the puzzles in BotW is more out of the freedom it allows you to experiment with physics than it is the strict "one tricky solution" you get with puzzle games. For example, I love Stephen's Sausage Roll, but its puzzles are completely different from BotW. There the enjoyment is in sweating over a really complex chain of specific actions. In BotW freedom is the emphasis.

No. I didn't get the hype, same with Witcher 3. Both were okay and other then the physics BOTW had nothing going for it.

The sequel could be. The original is a collection of amazing gameplay systems that you don't really use outside of select shrines.

I generally do not like Nintendo and I think it's a very smart little inversion of that puzzle. I agree that the gyro controls suck dick, though.

Maybe that's something you enjoy, but like I said earlier, I do not like unrestrained freedom. It just says laziness. For you to say that all puzzles are bad if they require one solution, and that all games prior to BOTW are dogshit? That just feels dishonest on your end. Look how quick you are to cite Zelda's metacritic score and popularity and sales as a selling point, yet you shat on Skyrim and various other popular games despite them being similarly popular.

>shrines aren't designed to have alternate solutions because any actual alternate solutions players find to deal with shrines OBVIOUSLY aren't intended because shrines are supposed to be easy and boring and anything that makes them less boring doesn't count
the insane amount of fucking cope in this post, jesus.

>it's okay for shrines to be easy, and have ways of making them even easier, because challenge is bad!

And you say I'm coping?

>For you to say that all puzzles are bad if they require one solution, and that all games prior to BOTW are dogshit?
But I didn't say that. I also don't care about Metacritic scores.You really need to realise that not everyone is the same person on Yea Forums.
What is "lazy" about designing puzzles with more than one solution?

>strict "one tricky solution" you get with puzzle game
play more puzzle games

No, but it's one of the few games as of maybe the last 10 years that has kept me going just for the exploration alone. Even if I ended up wasting hours for nothing, the fact the game generated plenty "huh, what's that over there?" moments, was enough for me. Don't get me wrong, the dungeons/shrines were average at best and the game overall has its flaws, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy exploring, finding new shit to head towards and exploring some more.

I haven't played many in fairness but I always got the impression that a lot of them (at least the sokoban ones I like) have very specific tricky solutions. My bad

There's a lot to be said for the idea you very articulately discuss regarding merging shrines into a smaller pool of larger dungeons with interconnected challenges. And I should know, because I've said a lot about that idea already. In fact I may have spent a post or two talking about them the last time I was in a BotW thread. Frankly I lose count, but I remember discussing it with a load of bods, and all was well.

Spirit Orbs themselves are essentially currency, so having a high count of small units allows for greater granularity of balancing costs and exchanges. The way that Orbs are awarded is the critical way to address certain factors, namely that some challenges in Shrines are so piss-easy that a Spirit Orb is a steal from them while others should release several Spirit Orbs along the way or at the end for Major Tests of Strength. (not that MToS are at all difficult - I recently started a Master Mode play through and with no more than 5 hearts and 1.2 Stamina wheels was demolishing them without even any practice for the last 3 months)

In essence, structuring shrines such that they have multiple monks within their labyrinthine enclosures, each navigable in a freeform fashion comparable to a good collectathon like Banjo Kazooie (topical, eh?) would work wonders for the game, especially with the larger dungeons being multi-visit like areas in a Metroidvania and where the player travels organically between dungeon zones to solve puzzles and defeat enemies as and when they're ready.

>Shadow of the Colossus
>Metroid Prime 2 Echoes
>TTYD
Alright, you can pass. Try playing NMH sometime.

I remember when you were complaining about the shrines being "one note" and not about being hard. But since you just got btfo on that score, I guess you're just going to switch to another?
Try not to trip and break your neck while backpedaling like that, user.

Not even in my top 20 Zelda games...

They should put a large notice on screen during the intro bit that the gyro is by default on and can be toggled on/off on the menu. My early progress in my first run was fuckterrible because of that stupid thing. Also the gyro is an outright curse if you're playing with the joycon mounting to the screen, but then you should never do that as it's a wrist-breaking pointlessness anyway.

>But I didn't say that. I also don't care about Metacritic scores.You really need to realise that not everyone is the same person on Yea Forums.
Yet you stand idly by while the majority of the fandom shitposts and attacks anyone who doesn't blindly praise Zelda. That passive attitude from you makes you more guilty of the shitposting than the people hitting submit. You refuse to acknowledge them and then play the victim after 3 years of constant spam.

>What is "lazy" about designing puzzles with more than one solution?
Maybe they should focus on the one solution requiring thought, instead of going for a quantity over quality deal.

>NMH
As in "No More Heroes"? I love it.
Play FSR for the ultimate S U D A experience.

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It is in my top 20 most disappointing games. So much wasted potential, so much boring tedious bullshit.

lel
How many Zeldas have there been anyway? I'd hazard a guess at 27 or so

They ARE one note. The solutions require no thought at all. How is that backtracking? The alternate solutions are literally easier, making them even worse as puzzles.

18.

Yes, it's in my top 20 most disappointing games I've ever played. And top 20 games that ruined their series

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>yes I admit that shrine puzzles have many different ways to complete them but I'm still going to claim they're one-note because I thought they were easy even though here I was complaining about the difficulty
cope

>I was complaining about the difficulty
Complaining about faulty controls =/ complaining about the difficulty of a puzzle solution. It didn't help that my joycons were pure trash that suffered from stick drift and the gyro pretty much stopped working within 6 months.

you need to try coping harder than that, user

Is that all you can say, like a bloody parrot? Are you gonna say that i'm cringe next? Or maybe you'll call me a zoomer? Please, I'd love to hear more buzzwords, because I'm not expecting any solid arguments.

Name what good about the game

Open World is a meme that needs to die.

Why should I give you any arguments when you have given me none?
>shrines are one-note that require a single gimmick to complete
>"actually that's not true at all, as is easily demonstrated most shrines can be completed in a variety of reasons"
>well that doesn't count because they're easy
you are a meme

Not him but predictable is not equivalent to bad. My main issue with botw is that it ditched absolutely everything about the series, it feels like the first game in a franchise with an absolute ton of underdeveloped ideas and misbalanced features when if it just kept some of what previous games had established it would have been far better as an evolution of the franchise.

Top tier user. I must play FSR someday; killer7 changed my life when I first played it all those misty moons ago.

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I count it as 15 plus 5 related non-Zelda titles. 7 if you count the Tingle games.

>"actually that's not true at all, as is easily demonstrated most shrines can be completed in a variety of reasons"
Yes, and? Why should they count if they don't make the puzzle any harder, or require any meaningful effort? It's like saying puzzles are better when you enable noclip because you're "thinking outside the box".

It's my number 1 in fact.

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I doubt anyone journalist would include DDS2 in a top 100 list.

Started playing recently. Maybe it will hop in somewhere in the bottom of my top 30:
>Planescape: Torment
>The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
>Bloodborne
>Nier: Automata
>Hollow Knight
>Dark Souls
>Shadow of the Colossus
>Okami
>Fallout: New Vegas
>Bayonetta
>Deus Ex
>Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
>Majora’s Mask
>Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
>Nier
>Devil May Cry 3
>Metal Gear Solid 3
>Cuphead
>The Last Guardian
>Super Metroid
>Demon’s Souls
>Portal 2
>Knights of the Old Republic II
>Zeno Clash
>Fallout 2
>Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective
>Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
>Dark Souls 3
>Psychonauts
>Final Fantasy VI
Though again maybe not, I guess for the most part I do enjoy games with a bit more of a focus, style and identity.

They count because your meme criticism of the shrines relying on single gimmicks to complete is invalidated by their existence. You stupid shitposter. Fuck off.

>meme criticism
And there's that phrase again, useful for nullifying any criticism against BOTW.

>framerate issues? lol meme criticism
>lack of challenge in most shrines and bosses and even basic enemies? lol meme criticism
>lack of cooldown on eating food and being able to infinitely heal mid-combat? meme criticism!

What counts as a valid criticism if every single thing you don't agree with is a meme?

Yes. Gameplay-wise it is extremely enjoyable to play. A little light on story and lore-wise but maybe a sequel will expand more. I really wanted more with the Champions since so heavily mentioned. I love the visual look of Windwaker and Skyward Sword mixed together. Also first time I got to play Japanese dialog in a Zelda game.
Windwaker is still my favorite.

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Good, good.
Be ready for a lot of walking, and the game deliberately mocks you for playing it.

Yeah things like tri-force heroes should not count I guess. But I don't consider tingle games and cd-i games. I only consider games with "zelda" in their title, made either by nintendo or capcom.
capcom made the best zelda games btw

>A little light lore-wise
Are you nuts? Botw has a galactic order of magnitude more lore than any other zelda

Your criticism is a meme because it was debunked in two posts and then you got desperate and changed your argument to shrines being too easy instead.
>three greentexted strawman arguments
link me to the posts I made saying these things, retard

seePick out any of the 900+ times you spammed that same image.

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>everyone who disagrees with me in the thread is the same person
try again, sweetie

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You ARE responsible for the post even if you didn't directly make it. If you'd like to apologize for 3 years of shitposting, then I'd be happy to forgive you, but until then the burden of their shitposting is yours to bear because you provoked and encouraged it. Like when you called me a retard for having a different opinion.

Its not that they aren't 'valid criticisms', its just that they're nitpicks compared to the over experience of the game.

In more than TWO YEARS I still haven't seen a single convincing for why BotW should be considered a bad game.

Most of the time, people bringing up tropes which exist in every fucking video game ever made and pretending that they're MASSIVE GAME BREAKING FAULTS in BotW.

>It gets boring after 50 hours! Its shit!
>Once you learn the combat mechanics and build your character its gets too easy! Its shit!
>I can pause to heal! Its shit!
>The game reuses assets! Its shit!

Trivial nonsense. And this is why shitters get laughed at. Because its just too hard to just admit Nintendo made a great video game.

BotW is NOT a perfect game. But its pretty fucking close.

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I called you a retard because your "opinion" was based on patently false statements about the state of shrine puzzle-solving. Beliefs based on facts that are wrong are themselves wrong, and you an idiot for holding it. Cope.

AHAHAHAHHAHAH go fucking back you troglodyte

I'm not even trying to argue that it's a bad game. I'm simply saying that it's not perfect. Yet I get attacked as a "snoy tranny" every other post. For goodness sake, I've been told to kill myself because I brought up frame rate issues in previous threads. Now please, tell me how being discontent with 20 FPS makes me an evil snoy supporter. What is the logic there? Especially when the previous logic was that only sony fans would defend sub-30 FPS, but now hating it makes you part of the gaf/era crowd.

>haha none of those count as criticism, BOTW is perfect! cope!
>your opinion is wrong, 97! u mad! 000 days since Yea Forums cried about BOTW

this is the extent of your arguments, if you can even call them such.

>tell me how being discontent with 20 FPS makes me an evil snoy supporter

BotW has NEVER run at 20fps.

>t. hasn't gotten to the korok woods

0 0 0 0
SECONDS

Post proof of it ever running at 20fps there. I'll wait.

youtube.com/watch?v=5f_KCsqiHkQ

And I'd like to remind you that this STILL isn't fixed.

>Mar 2017

Shit that has patched multiple times. And yeah, it CAN still there under 30fps. Nowhere near 20fps though. So stop fucking lying.

I own a PS4 too btw, Bloodbourne and RDR2 crawl along about 24fps.

But you don't care about that, you just want to shit on a game which has isolated frame dips on one or two areas which a player might never even fucking visit.

>the whole game runs at 20fps!

Sure thing bro.

I was just expecting more with the Champions story-wise.

>Shit that has patched multiple times. And yeah, it CAN still there under 30fps. Nowhere near 20fps though. So stop fucking lying.
Lying? It STILL hasn't been patched. I was playing the game not even 3 months ago, and it still plays like total garbage in that area. And that's just one area. Any village or town has similar FPS problems. The game shouldn't be struggling to reach 30. It should be striving for 60, it's just poor optimization on Nintendo's part.

>I own a PS4 too btw, Bloodbourne and RDR2 crawl along about 24fps.
And you don't see me defending those games. Nintendo had nothing holding them back from better optimization, other than utter laziness.

>But you don't care about that, you just want to shit on a game which has isolated frame dips on one or two areas which a player might never even fucking visit.
Again, I never called the game shit. But I can't consider it a 10/10 flawless masterpiece with such issues prevalent in it.

>I can't consider it a 10/10 flawless masterpiece with such issues prevalent in it.

Nobody care what you think bro. But you have to wake up everyday in a world where BotW is considered one of the greatest games of all time and a masterclass in game design.

That's gotta suck for you. Why not cry about it on a chinese takeaway image board for another two years and see if things change?

fpbp

If it's Suda, I trust it will work it. Or else I will take Sudas 1-through-50 as hostage to make him pay.

>Triforce heroes should not count
Precisement, not really a Zelda and ditto for Four Swords or HW (shudder). Zelda in the title, and it's an explorative action game with increasing powers from discovering and clearing dungeons and such.
It's funny, I used to rave about the Oracles, but when I sat down to replay them a few years ago I couldn't enjoy them. I kept comparing them to LA and how neatly that game was balanced and tied up. Still, good games for the challenge they provide and I adore the music. MC is a god-tier game.

If I cared about the opinion of normalfags, I wouldn't be on 4channel, now would I? And right now all you've done is out yourself as a mindless drone who literally has to hide behind muh critical acclaim and muh metacritic scores, because you literally can't formulate an argument that would address the criticisms brought to the table.

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You clearly haven't been in many threads, or you haven't been paying attention, or you're actively avoiding any serious discussion of the matter. Chances are from the tone of your post and the calibre of reaction image employed, you're the weird standoffish user from earlier in the thread who had a perfectly great chance to talk over the game and didn't take it up.

Yeah keep on crying. You got nothing but seething worthless rhetoric.

Nintendo made one of the best video games of all time. AGAIN. Like they always do.

Your endless tears are fucking delicious.

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No I've been seeing the same drivel for more than two years now. The fact this game still causes so much rage and bile years later is sure-fire confirmation of its quality.

Clearly they didn't make one of the best games if you have to spend so much time whiteknighting it. The game's quality could clearly speak for itself in any other situation, yet you have to invade every Yea Forums thread and tell people to stop criticizing BOTW, as if you're afraid that people might not buy into the hype.

Don't you have enough confidence in BOTW to have it stand on its own two feet?

Nah, Just Cause: Hyrule Edition starts as 10/10 and stays interesting for 20 hours or so. That's okay but nothing more.

Drivel, huh? Then what about posters like this?

Explicitly lays out every problem he has with BOTW, without actually calling it shit. How did the fanbase respond? By calling him a "retarded snoy tranny."

Hmmm......

LMFAO! What a pathetic transparent attempt at trying to turn your seething jealousy around. Puh-lease.

>and I think it's weird when people say
?
What BOTW is, is to take a stale and terrible genre dominated by horrible Ubisoft games. And actually introduce proper gameplay to it, in a basic and very very polished form.
To the point where the interaction of basic systems allow complex actions, and even some very wild glitches that looks about right.

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LOL its fucking drivel!

>here's basically nothing to tie BotW's plotline to Zelda. Link has to save Hyrule from Ganon - Mario has to save Mushroom Kingdom from Bowser. X has to save Y from Z. It's nothing specific to Zelda.

LOLWUT? Yeah I'm convinced, BotW is total shit lmao.

>seething jealousy
What seething jealousy? I have a switch and I did play the game for about 50 hours. Does this not entitle me to criticize it, without the rabid fanbase screeching and crying that their beloved god is being besmirched? You've already said that you don't consider sub-30 FPS to be a flaw, so you've already outed yourself as a shitposter.

And then there are shitposts like this >ubisoft games are all terrible, anyone who likes them is wrong, fuck popularity
>popularity is now okay when Zelda has it!

It just demonstrates that you are not arguing in good faith.

And of course, as a topper, we got posts like this >LOLWUT? Yeah I'm convinced, BotW is total shit lmao.
Funny he would say this when the three posts in question never once implied that the game was shit, or didn't have redeeming traits. Literally just came up with that on the fly.

>if a game dares to dip below 30fps at any point even for a second then its SHIT!

No pretty most fucking video games for the past 20 years are shit. Fuck off, you're never going to have a convincing argument and you only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Not even close.

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>if a game dares to dip below 30fps at any point even for a second then its SHIT!
Who are you quoting?

THIS. There are games as far back as the sixth generation that pack way more depth than BoTw be it story-wise thematically or gameplay-wise in terms of depth, challegen and complexity.

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why do you have such autism? just stop, this is embarrassing
just go watch your snoy movies

You consider sub-30fps a flaw? You must not like many games. Cry more.

>There are games as far back as the sixth generation that pack way more depth than BoTw be it story-wise thematically or gameplay-wise in terms of depth, challegen and complexity.

Yawn. Name some.

I bet any fucking money you list tons of isolated aspects from individual rather than a s ingle cohesive game which can go toe-to-toe with BotW.

You have to stack up every game ever made to do it.

Yes, I do consider sub-30 FPS a flaw, but you dodged my question. Where did I say that the game was shit solely because of the FPS?

Hey, user, riddle me this: if I consider sub-30 FPS a notable enough flaw to bring up in discussion, why would I like snoy movies, that are lucky to maintain 10 FPS on a good day? Did you even think about your comment?

Top 20 disappointing games, yes.

user I don't give a fuck, you're writing your ass off to say nothing while sounding like a high schooler trying to hard to sound smart and it's supreme cringe. It physically hurts to look at.

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>Where did I say that the game was shit solely because of the FPS?

Here:
>You've already said that you don't consider sub-30 FPS to be a flaw, so you've already outed yourself as a shitposter.

You really are pathetic. What a sad desperate quest you have:

>M-Must try and convince myself Nintendo didn't make a great game!

Aren't you exhausted? Its been YEARS. Will you ever be able to move on?

nah but I like it

>user I don't give a fuck
Then why are you even responding, if you do not want to have a sensible conversation? For the past 50 posts you have done nothing but call me a faggot, a nigger, a retard, and your best argument could be summed up as a tl;dr version of "lol u mad". You've done nothing for this conversation other than prove that you're just here to rile people up.

And where does it say that the entire game is shit as a result? Do you not know what a "flaw" is?

>Shadow of the Colossus
>Golden Sun The Lost Age
>Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door
>The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild
>Pokémon Black/White
Mah nigga

what
That isn't even the argument. The argument is that Ubisofts gameplay loops are not good gameplay. Where the main benefit is Ubisofts open world is that its paired with the Historical Settings and Parkour.
Outside of that its poorly padded trash, carried by good locations and A LOT of cutscenes and costumes.

Meanwhile BOTW has a actual system for free climbing, which I haven't seen successfully in video games since....
TES II: Daggerfall?
On top of a lot of other gameplay mechanics, which makes the game fun to play.
The only real problem with BOTW is that most of the depth is in exploration, adventure, and system complexity. Meaning it doesn't have stuff like dungeons to also fall back on, which tends to be extremely amazing in Zelda.
Nevermind that non Zelda games do not do as good dungeons. Even in Darksiders its pretty bland compared to the amazing 3D level design featured in Zelda dungeons. And thats true of 2D games as well, that has trouble holding candles to Oracles/ALTTP/Legend of Zelda

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>Do you not know what a "flaw" is?

FACT: BotW has multiple patches since launch. It runs better, loads faster. Most of this was pathed within days of release. If your "flaw" is that the game's framerate might dip in one or two isolated areas of the game - which some players might not even fucking visit - that just goes to show how utterly pathetic and desperate your "flaws" are.

im not even the guy you're arguing with you retard

It's around #10 for me

None of the 3D Zeldas are good.

>OoT was great for its time, but that time has passed and other games have improved on its various aspects. Still the most "balanced" of the games, but it doesn't particularly excel in anything by current standards which makes it pretty boring to play.
>MM focuses on sidequests and time management at the expense of compelling dungeons, save for maybe Stone Tower Temple. Overworld feels more like a segmented theme park than a world. The sidequests themselves are narratively interesting, but not all that mechnically fun. Generally feels more like running errands than having an adventure.
>WW has some of the easiest dungeons in the series and its overworld reeks of copypaste content. Tries to come across as a more "open" Zelda, but doesn't truly become nonlinear until near the end of the game. Not quite the worst 3D title, but perhaps the most disappointing.
>TP focuses on dungeons at the expense of a good overworld, having a map bereft of content and barely any sidequests. Even its dungeons aren't that well-designed and only appeal due to surface level setpiece aesthetics. Awful prologue. All style, zero substance.
>SS also focuses on dungeons at the expense of a good overworld, but this time on steroids. Dungeons are better than TP's, but the overworld is somehow even worse. Simon says combat gets old after a short while. More handholding than any other 3D adventure.
>BotW focuses on its overworld at the expense of compelling dungeons. Divine beasts are half-baked. Shrines are isolated puzzle chambles without any of the navigational fun of previous dungeons. Bad enemy variety. Probably the closest thing to a truly good 3D Zelda game so far, but still needs improvement.

50 bucks says BotW2 will overcorrect again and we'll go back to having good dungeons and story but barely anything else.

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Definitely Top 10. Maybe Top 5.

>None of the 3D Zeldas are good.

Didn't even bother reading the rest of that shit pasta after such a zoom zoom zoom line.

>The argument is that Ubisofts gameplay loops are not good gameplay. Where the main benefit is Ubisofts open world is that its paired with the Historical Settings and Parkour.
And yet they get lapped up by normalfags and game journalists quite regularly, the same people you said can't be argued with because their opinions are objectively right. clearly something has to give here, and you're not seeing it. If Ubisoft games are trash, then that means that popularity means nothing, and your attempt to use it in this argument shows your intellectual dishonesty. Even now you ravage games like TES and Darksiders, despite them also being unanimously loved by the normalfag masses. So tell me, why do you get to personally decide when popularity counts as a metric in a game's favor?

Not a single patch has fixed the horrible frame drops in the korok wood. If you think it runs smoothly now, then I invite you to boot up your WiiU or Switch and go to that area right now.

Wouldn't zoomers like the 3D games more?

>I invite you to boot up your WiiU or Switch and go to that area right now.

How is this a "flaw"? The Lost Woods is a placid area. There's no combat or anything there. Please tell me how a frame dip in this single isolated area ruins the game?

>Wouldn't zoomers like the 3D games more?

No. Most of the kids here weren't even born when OoT was released. Thats why they can't stand it. They cannot handle the fact they weren't part of the phenomenon.

>Please tell me how a frame dip in this single isolated area ruins the game?
It doesn't make the game shit, and I would like it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. It IS a flaw because it makes navigating the place a headache inducing nightmare. When the game runs poorly, you don't want to explore or navigate the environment or even stay there for too long. Essentially you just want to rush and talk to the NPCs, take anything not nailed down, and leave. And that's pretty caustic for a game that emphasizes a more slow-paced explorative nature.

I'm not a zoomer, but aren't you just proving the point that OoT's really just a "you had to be there to enjoy it" type game?

>in my 100 hour adventure the frame rate dipped once in a location I didn't even have to visit.

I feel for you bro, honestly Nintendo should be shot.

No I'm saying THIS board is full of tweens. And naturally they can't stand being told OoT is "da best game evah" when they weren't around to experience.

You'll find that the rest of Planet Earth are pretty solid in their consensus.

Around the 15th place, yeah.

So user, you are taking other peoples arguments and attempt to derail them.
I feel sorry for you. Thats sad.
So instead of talking about the systems of Assassins Creed, and the follow up on the Open World variant, you fail to do so.
Instead you go on about basically failing to quote The Economist
>So tell me, why do you get to personally decide
>personally decide
Nobody does that
Fuck off
Either its good, or its not that great.

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>this game has flaws here and there
>LOL NO IT DOESN'T
>what about this one?
>UHH YOU CAN SKIP IT STOP CALLING THE GAME SHIT
>I never called it shit, though?
>LOL SNOY U MAD

Do you even have an argument at this point?

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Birthdays at 8 years old must have been really hard for you.

So by your logic, you're not allowed to criticize Ass Creed since millions of people love it. According to you, it's objectively better than any game with a lower metacritic. after all, popularity can't be argued with.

A game and the sum of it's parts are there to reach a goal of what it strives to be, secondary aspects center around a main attribute which is important to reach it's desired goal, almost all good games are cohesive. It's not that special.

I concede that BoTW focus on player freedom is executed very well, though ultimately that is a rather unimpressive thing It's like striving to be a really elaborate playground, intended for just fun like 90% of the over saturated industry.

What did you carry away from this game? Is a question that lets you distinguish a game from the rest of the market.
MegaMan Zero 4's themes of purpose of conflict and fighting alone are far more profound than the entirety of the Zelda franchise. The quality of a game cannot be as easily quantified and compared in terms of fun when what it is striving to be isn't fun alone to begin with.

Breath of the Wild may be the most fun but that isn't really all that meaningful. Being a fun toy is great, but Games can not just be toys you see.

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>Do you even have an argument at this point?

You never had one bro. BotW is an exceptionally brilliant video game experience which has elevated an entire genre and pushed other developers to try harder.

Its been discussed, fawned over, celebrated by every corner of the gaming industry - from journalists, news outlets, rival developers, industry insiders and gamers alike.

And on a personal level, I had an absolute fucking blast and have articulated my thoughts numerous times on this board.

Nothing you do or say is every going to change this. You have NOTHING. Nothing but SALT. All you can do is try and nitpick the game to death in the hope you're somehow going to convince the rest of humanity that they got it wrong and you - YOU THE ALMIGHTY TRUTH SEE'ER - were right all along.

Fuck sake bro, you're embarrassing.

>What did you carry away from this game? Is a question that lets you distinguish a game from the rest of the market.
>MegaMan Zero 4's themes of purpose of conflict and fighting alone are far more profound than the entirety of the Zelda franchise.

Can you hear yourself?

I'll tell you what I took away from BotW: it made nearly every other open world game seem redundant and archiac overnight.

>all other video games bad
>only Zelda good

Console fanboys are starting to repeat themselves. Get new material fellas.

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>So by your logic
>metacritic
>popularity
AssCreed has good and bad elements.
The gameplay is bad
The spectacle is good
The cutscene stuff varies between terrrible filler and good
If you can't separate games into pieces, you can't really argue about the systems that allows the game to be great. And the same time the combined worth of these systems is what makes some of the really good games great.

I.e after Ocarina of Time was released, A TON of games copied various systems. But without the rest of the systems, or the polish, its just sorta bland.
And thats merely how it works.

I also see you again failed to argue, and just went on with more buzzwords.
Sad.

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>The gameplay is bad
Millions of people would say otherwise. Why are they wrong?

I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're coming from a misguided place of expecting every Zelda game to be perfectly balanced and rounded when that's not just going to happen. The reason these games were able to have such an impact is precisely because they had an uncompromising vision in whatever they were trying to achieve. It might fracture the fanbase and divide opinions, but the fanbase can get over it; it's not like there isn't always another Zelda installment around the corner.

The DLCs are a rehash of stuff you did in the main game. Not really worth it.

>Console fanboys

From this gen alone I have a PS4, XboxOneX, Wii U, 3DS and Switch.

There isn't a single game on any system which comes close to BotW - a handcrafted adventure born from artistic integrity which serves as a fucking masterclass in game design to every other developer on the planet.

Not flawless, not perfect. But nothing is.

Long after the hype has died down and everyone still fawns over the game. Time to just accept it and move on. Its a good thing. Nintendo done good. And games will hopefully become better because of Nintendo's efforts. Say thanks.

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I wasn't exactly trying to change anything about the way you or others view the game, why are you implying my motives to be spiteful? I am expressing myself just like you on this board and explained myself when you asked for elaboration.

Anyway, my argument is that Breath of the Wild's heavy focus on open ended exploration and combat only serves to be fun, which is a goal that is ultimately underwhelming to me. It's an unique kind of fun I must say, but still just surface level entertainment. I find games that i to make the player feel things other than fun or satisfaction far more interesting and worthwhile, games that can tell a story through gameplay.

>There isn't a single game on any system which comes close to BotW
*blocks your path*

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I have close to 1000 hours in it. I'd say yeah.

>why are you implying my motives to be spiteful

Its hard to tell the shitters apart from bros. I don't mean to rag on you unintentionally. Its just tiresome.

Because the gameplay systems do not compliment each other? Nor are they mechanically heavy enough to warrant some form of skill level investment to get anywhere.
Where 90% of the animation system ends up with various forms of synced animation for climbing/combat/dialogue/interaction, so Ezlo/Altair gets to do fancy stabs instead of giving enough control to the player to actually do fancy stuff?
Nevermind the lack of offensive and defensive combat depth. Or parkour being 90% spectacle, instead of having any substance.

So why is the gameplay bad? Because:
1. You don't have granularity or control
2. There is no depth
3. Most of the systems is really janky, despite having spent a few hundred man hours on animations and architecture

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And he finally does it folks! He finally mentions Terraria. lmao should I buy the Switch version?

Accepting people like a game does not require you to like it yourself. And Breath of the Wild dosen't really do anything special for the medium. It retreads old ground, in a very refined, well executed way, but never does it truly break it and cause a ripple. If you are trying to suggest that it's success will motivate other games to be better that's not really special either.

The reality is that BotW SHOULD inspire devs but probably won't. It just takes too much hard work and isn't cost effective.

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>So why is the gameplay bad? Because:
Sorry user, millions disagree, and your'e in the minority here.

I don't get when this game takes place. It seems to be massively far into the future of all the other games, enough time for an ultra-advanced industrial society to rise and fall and go back to feudal fantasy shit. 100,000 years? wtf were Link/Zelda/Ganon doing in that time?

Plus it seems like all the timelines are part of it, which makes no sense.

Actually, that's understandable. I imagine the nitpicking blown out of proportion and shitposting is pretty annoying from your side.
Regardless, my taste and prefereces are a bit weird anyways. I don't play that many franchises for fun anymore.

>Totally open world.

Not really, the game basically nudges you in a quest that goes from Katakiro Village to the Tech Lab town to Zora then Goron then Gerudo then Kokri before going to Hyrule Castle. For instance, if you don't go to Goron City before Gerudo you won't last long as you need the heat resistant armor.

No. The game really is quite shallow.

Nintendo don't really give a fuck about timelines. Nintendo just want to make fun and engaging games. Have a strict timeline would stifle creativity so its mostly treated as an afterthought.

Personally, I prefer the idea that its just one story - told and retold again and again, with various deviations. Just like a real legend.

>shitters
I'm the guy you're arguing with by the way. I don't recall ever saying that BOTW is shit. So why call me a "shitter"?

>All 4 beasts taking two-four hours

lol I'm at like 50 hours of gameplay and still am only at 3/4 of them.

granted I do every shrine and tower as well as upgrading my armor and weapons as i go

Don't you ever get tired of this, Doug?

>Metroid Prime 2
>Mother 3
>Pokemon White 2
>BotW
>Yakuza 0
>Bloodborne
>Rune Factory 3
>Doom
>Shovel Knight
>Okami

It's the greatest game of all time so yeah

Wait, I got things mixed up myself. I didn't see that you replied to , my post was .

So basically something indirect that the game did not even intend on even saying.
Do you think Breath of the Wild actually has some sort of thematic through-line or message? That's what I was talking about. What you responded with was just gauging the game in terms of simple fun again, which is not what I was looking for.

Tired of Terraria? Nah. I've got thousands of hours in it, meanwhile I had to drop BOTW after 50 because it just stopped being fun.

I don't think I've ever seen a single Zelda fan capable of arguing why I should like BOTW over Terraria. And you know why? Because I don't think they CAN argue it. Sure Zelda can best AAA titles like Ass Creed, but Terraria is objectively the greatest game of this generation, bar none, hands down.

Having said that, I gladly invite any Zelda fan to argue the contrary, why you think Zelda is better. I'd be happy to hear any points you could bring up.

With the massive scope videogames have expanded to recently, yes, I agree, not every dev has the pockets of Nintendo. BotW at best upped the standard for AAA games only.

Doug, you've got to stop the madness, man. This isn't healthy. You posting/defending Terraria *unprovoked* in EVERY fucking BotW thread just means you're insecure about your own game.

Huge normie/casual here. Rarely spend more then 10 hours on a game since about 2007 or so. I've played BOTW heavily and I'm so bad at vidyas that I find it extremely difficult (at least the first part). I am pretty much maxed out in capabilities now wielding the master sword and hyrulian shield and still lose fights to those lizard things. That being said I've still put a huge amount of time into it for my standards (maybe 25+ hours, haven't done that for ages). I do like it, though having Ganondorf over mindless ganon would have been more interesting.

Actually, I mention Terraria because I think it has tons of ideas that BOTW2 could borrow to be a better game, from combat implementation to QoL features, even minigames like fishing or golf. After all, I never said Zelda was shit, I just wanted to see it improve the flaws it had.

Much like how a previous user brought up Ass Creed unprovoked, except his example was in a negative light. Mine is a positive light. I'm sorry, is Yea Forums not the board for video game discussion anymore?

>And top 20 games that ruined their series
Bullshit, there's like 90 Sonic the Hedgehog games, any list of top 20 games that ruined their franchise will be a solid 20 Sonic games.

Do they disagree?
Or are they just enjoying the good parts of the game for what it is? Because spectacle is pretty good

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No, but it's formula has incredible potential. If they address the inventory issues and have great dungeon designs in the sequel it could be one of my GOATs.

You mention Terraria in every thread. You won't shut up about it. That's the problem. At least you don't seem as unhinged as you were a few months ago, but I still think your psychiatrist needs to increase your dose of crazy pills.

If you look on metacritic, hundreds if not thousands will praise the gameplay itself. Infact, the top reviews directly praise the gameplay.

>gameplay discussion thread
>mention a game with similar mechanics and how the first game can improve, all while being respectful to both games
>"WTF STOP TALKING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES"

>I don't think I've ever seen a single Zelda fan capable of arguing why I should like BOTW over Terraria.

Because they're not mentally ill.

>convince me!

Isn't that what you always say? Nobody has to convince you of jack shit. But you seem to be utterly fucking seething and obsessed with BotW.

Speaks volumes. ;^)

Yeah, almost certainly.

But user, thats a shallow and terrible way to argue.
Generally when they start to describe the game play ,they end up describing the combination of forced synced movement and spectacle in one package. Alongside drizzles of historical stuff, that other media can't even deliver.
If you read on Metacritic, you would know this.
Instead you pick a sour and low hanging fruit, and then fail to talk about its deep intense flavor.

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>Because they're not mentally ill.
It's mentally ill to like Zelda over Terraria? I wouldn't go that far, since they're both good games, but whatever floats your boat my dude.

>Nobody has to convince you of jack shit.
If you claim the game is objectively the greatest thing ever made, that needs a citation to back it up. Shouldn't even be that hard to give, since you parade its quality as high.

You make an interesting point user. However, the same could be said of alot of Zelda reviews and metacritic scores. People will go on about the retarded and pretentious story, and never dedicate a review solely to the gameplay. I would 100% believe any Zelda fan if they actively shat on and hated anything about BOTW that wasn't the gameplay. IF they showed me that they hated all forms of spectacle and cared only about substance, they'd have my support. That means discarding the disgusting cinematic story, AND ignoring any arguments that claim "it's okay because it's skippable". No, it's not okay. It has to not exist period. Never let the degenerates have an inch.

This happened with Ass Creed, and look what came about as a result. The industry just wanted more spectacle and less gameplay. If Ass Creed had every single bit of story and graphics and cutscenes and voice acting ripped out, I bet you a billion C-notes that nobody would touch.

>> 1. Zelda: Ocarina of Time

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Yawn. For a fucking start, BotW is in 3D. It shits all over your indieshit Doug. '3D' is a replication of what we see with our own eyes. 3D games will always be more immersive than 2D XY shit. Thats why the gaming industry has chased this dream from the very beginning - way before the tech could even handle it. 2D games will always be fun but they will ALWAYS play second fiddle to real games.

And yes, I'm baiting you. But its reflective of the kind of redundant shite you talk.

That's simply not true. I'm replaying botw right now and I can tell you getting the shrine puzzles get tricky when going to every treasure

First zelda game I've played since quitting Wind Waker after 45 mins in 2004.

Wtf why are there robots and lasers and ipads in Zelda now? wtf happened with the setting?

I'm sorry you so easily get buttblasted by a dumb meme.

>Yawn. For a fucking start, BotW is in 3D.
Metroid Prime is in 3D, and yet people swear by Super Metroid being better. So a weak argument to start. 2D/3D wars are a graphical issue, nothing more. What matters is implementation, which Terraria absolutely excels at.

>'3D' is a replication of what we see with our own eyes.
So in other words, realism? Ewww, I play video games for escapist fantasy. I don't need no Call of Duty simulator.

>And yes, I'm baiting you
Well, you're not doing a good job of it. I see nothing that can't be debated.

>why are there robots and lasers and ipads in Zelda now?

You mean unlike the robots and lazers that existed in Skyward Sword aka the first fucking game in the Zelda Timeline?

Are you seriously delusional?

>2D/3D wars are a graphical issue, nothing more.

This prove how much of an utter fucking brainlet you are. Comparing 2D game deaign to 3D game design is like comparing Sailing to Interstellar Space Travel.

Did you even read to see where the rest of that convo went?

Yeah in my top 20 games.
Top 20 worst games I've ever played.
BotW fucking sucks.

>Comparing 2D game deaign to 3D game design is like comparing Sailing to Interstellar Space Travel.
And I'd rather trust the sailboat that runs smoothly and delivers high performance at a reasonable cost, over a super expensive space shuttle that has a 20% chance of exploding at any given time.

Banjo-Tooie
Starcraft
Fallout New Vegas
Banjo-Kazooie
Warcraft 3
Orcarina of Time
Mario 64
Breath of the Wild
Halo 3
Goldeneye
Pokemon Crystal
Crash Bandicoot 3
Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Team Fortress 2
God of War
GTA San Andreas
Assassins Creed
Doom 2016
SSB Melee
Mass Effect

It ain't in my favorites. Whenever I play a game and I like it a whole lot, I'll add it to my favorites. In no particular order:
>Paper Mario 1-3
>Metroid Prime 1 & 2
> Metroid Zero Mission
>Super Metroid
>Metroid Fusion
>AM2R
> DKC 1 & 2
>Super Mario Galaxy
>Resident Evil 4
>LEGO Star Wars 1 & 2
>LEGO Indiana Jones 1
>LEGO City Undercover
>Smash Bros Brawl
>Mario and Luigi RPGs 1-3
>DKC Returns and Tropical Freeze
>Postal 2
>Garry's Mod
>Luigi's Mansion 1 & 2
>Sonic Adventure 1 and 2
>Poker Night 1 & 2
>Yoshi's Island
>Castlevania Symphony of the Night
>Conker's Bad Fur Day

>I'd rather trust the sailboat that runs smoothly and delivers high performance at a reasonable cost, over a super expensive space shuttle that has a 20% chance of exploding at any given time.

Well shit, thats actually a good point. I'll give you that.

>find some big serpent thing
>a fucking goddess statue tells me to free it from corruption
>do so in a pretty cool sequence
>awarded with a shrine
>not even a puzzle shrine, just a "walk in and take it" shrine because the sequence beforehand was apparently the actual puzzle

Shit man, there's only three of these dragons and associated statues in the game, you'd think there'd at least be something special for them

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