How the FUCK could Sega release such a blatantly underpowered machine?

More cores are always harder to deal with. Plus there's less interest in emulating the Saturn because "the SS has no games lol" memes.

So how long till some normie youtuber does a video on the Saturn and it explodes in price?

Saturn version of Grandia

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meanwhile PS1 version of Grandia

>no shadows
>ground textures are all fucked up

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Nice anecdotal evidence, seat sniffer.

Oh look, one game.

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>Theoretically it was equal to the PS1.
Wrong, even at peak performance it can't match the PS1 in T&L and it can't blit as many pixels.
The Saturn only beats the PS1's performance in two very specific circumstances - when you use all the RAM (tough to do since it's split into so many pools) and when you mean hard on the VDP2 background engine (hard to do unless your game has a somewhat fixed perspective)

>uses squares instead of triangles for polygons when every other motherfucking platform used triangles

PS1 has more soul

No, it clearly proves the "blatantly underpowered" statement in OP wrong. Look at any of Capcom's 2D fighters on both consoles to see how pathetic the PS1 versions look in comparison.

Sega was king of polys in the arcade and they used quads.

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The PS1 version came out almost 2 years later.

>every other motherfucking platform used triangles
There were barely any other platforms. And Sega’s Model 1 and 2 arcade machines (industry leading hardware) used quads.

Wasn’t the Saturn better at playing 2d games which is why 2d Capcom games ran better on the Saturn? I figured it was

Saturn = 2d > 3d
PSOne = 3d > 2d

Saturn has more RAM which helps for 2D games with a lot of animation frames.
It’s also got a dedicated background engine which helps with drawing 2D stuff.

The disadvantages it has in 2D is that its sprite drawing capabilities are weaker than the PS1. And while it can do transparencies, it can’t do them as flexibly as the PS1 can.

Too bad the industry as a whole didn't give two fucks about 2D. The Saturn is abysmal at 3D.

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Nice try, fart huffer.

Yeah but the killer soundtrack.

Nitro knows how to rock out while he wins races & gets ass.

The 3D wasn't THAT bad. In the proper hands you could get something like Panzer Dragoon, Bulk Slash or even Burning Rangers.

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Not abysmal at 3D, especially looking back considering standards are so different that they both just look like a product of their time.

Looking at things like Burning Rangers or Panzer Dragoon Saga, they look good as 3D games.

Panzer Dragoon only runs smoothly because the majority of the environments are handled by VDP2, freeing up VDP1 for polygon generation. Same with Bulkslash, the mech isn't even made of polygons. As for Burning Rangers, well, it plays at like 20 fps and has a terrible camera.

TL;DR, the Saturn can only run games smoothly when it can literally offload 90% of the graphics to its background generator. This is why PSX ports run like dogshit on Saturn.

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>though some games did succesfully pull off data streaming
Outside of Soul Reaver 1, what other PS1 games used streaming?

>Panzer Dragoon Saga
I just beat that game, it can really chug at times, most of the transparency effects are rendered with ugly meshes, and since the Saturn's polygon budget is so low the game doesn't subdivide polygons, leading to insane texture warping.

In reality it was the complete opposite. The Saturn was developed with the idea of making a 2D console, but seeing the Playstation coming they went into panic mode and added shit to make it run 3D games.
It made Saturn really hard to work with, but technically it can make better 3D games than the Playstation.
And for 2D games, the Saturn had a few issues like with transparency, that in the end made the Playstation superior. Try to find a game as beautiful as Legend of Mana on a Saturn, you will have a hard time.

The SS had a processor dedicated exclusively to reading data out of the CD. The memes about too many processors are real.

Panzer Dragoon benefits from having a limited perspective and environment. Since the ground is almost completely flat you can just let VDP2 draw it. This happens a lot in 3D fighters too.
In fully modelled environments like tomb raider the Saturn shits the bed.

Also burning rangers looks and runs like shit.

Read what happened between SoA and SoJ. The Silicon Graphics Story / Nvidia story is pretty much their pissing match in a nutshell:
>Kalinske wants to use SGI gpu
>SoJ tells him no because x/y/z
>SGI makes new engineering sample that includes x/y/z
>SoJ still tells them no
>Kalinske realizes it's fucking over
>Yu Suzuki hears about the second SGI meeting
>He's fucking shocked at SoJ's nonsesne
>begs them to reconsider
>tells them outright "polygons are the future"
>tries to skirt the SoA/SoJ pissing match by offering to develop his own GPU either adapted from the model 2 or Nvidia
>SoJ tells him to piss off back to am2 they're making the saturn
>SGI ends up getting on a train the next day
>they sell their gpu to Nintendo and it ends up in the 64
>the Saturn comes out with no real polygon acceleration
This is literally the moment Sega died. The point of no return.

>but seeing the Playstation coming they went into panic mode and added shit to make it run 3D games.
All they did was add a background generator. Good choice though, without it Virtua Fighter 1/Daytona USA tier graphics would have basically been the only thing the machine could do.

I'll be honest, I kinda like the dithered effect for shadows and shit on Saturn.

>The Saturn had a special graphics chip that could draw massive 3D planes with textures all the way to the end of the horizon. If the PlayStation wanted to do this, it would have to spend a lot of its limited amount of onscreen polygons to do what the Saturn could do for “free,” and even then, it likely couldn’t draw the planes all the way to the horizon.

archive.is/1jKUe

I do too, but it looks HIDEOUS through composite.

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The biggest problem with Saturn isn’t the dual CPUs but that VDP1 is an outdated piece of shit.

PS1 had good 3D hardware because they paid for extremely expensive consulting with SGI (industry leaders in 3D) when they were developing the PS1. Sega were too arrogant and had a bad case of not developed here and so went it alone on developing VDP1 (no help requested from their Model 2 collaborators) They didn’t understand progress in the 3D field so they adapted 2D hardware into producing distorted sprites as polygons. While a clever adaptation, it was still backwards. Hence VDP1 is shit. And ironically the PS1 GPU is still faster at sprites because they managed to clock their chip higher.

Yu Suzuki had to be physically removed from the board room trying to convince Sega of Japan that they needed to ship a console with proper 3d support. They wouldn't listen to him.

I've been playing my Saturn through RGB Scart and a OSSC upscaler.

Source?

Yes, but it’s sad that the Saturn has an entire fucking chip on its board which is useless in 3D except for this horizon/fighting platform effect. What a waste of silicon real estate.

I remember an user worked a while ago on here that if the Nintendo spent the same amount manufacturing the N64 as Sega did on the Saturn, the N64 would be blowing PCs out of the water until 1999.

Gentleman and a Scholar. I've SCART up myself but I couldn't afford a good upscaler so I use a chink $45 one.

Did you hear Framemeister is being discontinued? I think it's only getting made until next month. After that, OSSC is all we will have.

The distorted sprites thing is kind of irrelevant, it's only a problem in limited circumstances when it comes to texture mapping.
No, what sucked about VDP1 was the fillrate. Its RAM is just too slow.
There's another popular idea that VDP2 was added once the PlayStation's specs were revealed because Sega was intimidated. This makes no sense - they were particularly intimidated by the T&L throughput and adding a display processor wouldn't have helped with that.
They added the SCU DSP as a reaction to the PlayStation, mirroring the GTE responsible for its impressive polygon performance. Except the SCU DSP was a piece of shit and missing important features like projection division which crippled it.

I love that logo

>what sucked about VDP1 was the fillrate
The distorted quad rendering is the reason the fillrate is low. Texturing is way more prone to overdraw than triangle rendering.

you want underpowered compare ps2 to gamecube not to mention xbox. that shit runs 480i and calls it a day lmfoa

It would have had fillrate issues even if there weren't overdraw.

But the GameCube was weaker than the PS2 c:

Actually, it was a fucking GOAT console for 2D games.

From what though? Other than the clockspeed being lower of course? I just know the overdraw was a really big issue.

Which is strange because the 64 had better games

Luckily, I do have a FM too. Personally, I think the OSSC looks better for most games. The positive of FM is that it deinterlaces by blending fields instead of just doubling the fields each frame like OSSC.

>blatantly underpowered machine?
There's nothing underpowered about arcades at home fag.

Play Panzer Dragoon Zwei

nah

how's Yea Forums's Saturn collection coming along?

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Well yeah the memory was clocked lower. Overdraw made it worse, and also made transparency buggy.

Literally 3x the SIMD performance. GameCube games had completely static environments and pinball physics, the PS2 had Red Faction.

>Well yeah the memory was clocked lower
Technically that’s a bandwidth issue rather than a fillrate problem, but yeah lower bandwidth results in lower real-world fillrate.

Not counting burned games.

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My Nvidia shield is running most games great

Thank you I prefer having both of my kidneys inside my body

I only own japanese saturn games

now imagine how much it would cost if they were the PAL versions

aren't the PAL versions generally cheaper?

I imported a Model 1 Saturn from Japan and took somewhere to get it modded. I met a techno-wizzard that modchipped it and did some trickery where I can swap regions by pressing and holding the reset button. I am too poor for collecting Saturn games, I only have Sonic R and NiGHTS, both NTSC-J.

However, I bought this amazing little thing. I love it.

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I thought it was the other way around

With Saturn games? Fuck no. You're an oil king if you have a PAL Panzer Dragoon Saga.

>staple sprites together with 2d hardware
>into a quad
>call it a polygon
>can't even map textures over multiple "polygons"
>because you're drawing a polygon with sprites to begin with
>hack around this by asking a second processor to map textures...
>...over a single quad
>one by one
Wew lads.
If anyone tries to tell you the Saturn's games were just a product of programmers being inexperienced with multi processor environments in the 90s rather than the Saturn being a fucking spaghetti monster call them a dumb nigger to their faces for me.

Rayforce is still one of my favorite shmups.

How the FUCK does OP manage to guzzle that much semen?

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what the fuck, source?

Wasn't the Saturn's problem was that while it was plenty powerful it was solely designed to play 2D games, but then the launch of the N64 convince Sega, Sony and all the 3td party developers that from here on out it was 3D or bust? The PS1 managed because the massive storage allowed by CD's meant they could rejigger shit and use workarounds like pre-rendered backgrounds, but the Saturn was stuck with cartridges and practically no polygon abilities.

it was made to be a 2D powerhouse right before they realized that 3D was the future and had to scramble to get it to run that shit at all. Never mind that they used quads instead of triangles which made everything a billion times harder than it needed to be.

Why has the Saturn become a punching bag all of a sudden?

You've got some things backwards. They were making an ultimate 2D system but then Sony announced the PS1 specs and they realized they were going to stay behind. Ironically, the PS1 engineers wanted to make a console capable of running games "like Virtua Fighter on a home console".

So then they used everything they already had on the shelf to make a 3 system, and that's what the Saturn is. It released first, then the PS1 and the N64 years later.

Neither was standard back then. If the Saturn had been successful, chances are quads would become standard and we'd still use it today. SEGA was a leading developer of graphics and they used quads exclusively.

The Saturn has always been for bullying.

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Now bear my arctic blast :^)

saturn was much better at 2d games than ps1. This probably is the reason why saturn had more good games in general. As far as I know sony "forced" devs to make 3d games because there audience was retarded, idiotic style over substance

>dreamcast had two less buttons than this controller

Never understood this.

The DC controllers was inferior to the Saturn 3D pad in literally every regard. I wish we could go back to 6 face button controllers.

>Saturn was stuck with cartridges
lol wut, have you even seen a saturn

It was meant to be a purely 2D console, but Sega changed its design at the last minute because they felt threatened by the PS1

It was never meant to be a purely 2D console. Just a console for 2D games that had some polygons

Same reason Sony did the same thing at the same time.

So basically a souped-up 32X?

There is no universe where the PSX was underpowered in 1994, zoom zoom.

?

Underpowered machines have been Nintendo's bread and butter for the past to decades and it seems to be working out fine for them.

>Just a console for 2D games that had some polygons
That's why VDP1 can push 400,000 polygons a second right?

Yes pretty much. 32X even used the same processors as the Saturn.

it has some nice shmups though

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It had plenty of games, they were just arcade ports, which means MAME is the best solution.

>400,000 polygons
That’s just a nonsense theoretical number. In practice the VDP1 overdraws like a bitch so it wastes time doing shit like writing over the same pixel 50 times.

I bet that figure is just the Saturn drawing 400 000 1-pixel sized polygons.

>Look at any of Capcom's 2D fighters on both consoles to see how pathetic the PS1 versions look in comparison.
A lot of this is because of RAM. They had to cut down on animations and shit because the PS1 didn't have a RAM expansion cart like the Saturn did.

Yes user, these are graphics from a console that can't do 3D.

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Sega did upgrade the Saturn before launch but anyway Shining Force 3 doesn’t look very detailed. Saturn’s best is like an average PS1 game.

I remember reading somewhere that Sega of America almost struck a deal with SGI, but Sega of Japan told them to fuck off, so they went on to create the N64's chipset

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>get nationally famous dominating the arcade scene
>get internationally famous thanks to your US branch marketing the fuck out of your console
>ignore both because you're insecure over your tiny penis
>company dies and gets bought out by pachinko yakuza
Sega should've been the first warning sign that corporate executives don't understand video games and need to be quarantined from the entire industry, instead they were just a harbinger for the past 20+ years of corporate-dominated shitfuckery that's ruined the industry.

I'd rather call the 32x a downgraded Saturn.
That is, it's a Saturn with the video display processors completely gutted. Any rendering that isn't just done by the mega drive hardware is done in software. It's insanity.

That isn't an excuse. You can't say something is underpowered and then try to excuse its power by saying it has better specs lmao.

many of the saturn games with impressive 2d graphics rely on external ram carts, the actual ram difference built into the consoles is not as dramatic as you might think
and the fact that the ram is split into a bunch of different pools rather than being semi-unified as on the playstation means it's easy to run out of ram where you need it (see: the sotn port)

They should have just made the Neptune
Or better yet, scrapped the whole Mega Drive add-on idea entirely and just continued supporting the base console and the CD

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The Mega CD wasn't exactly the best design either but at least it wasn't as pants on head retarded as the 32x or Saturn.

Didn't the Mega Drive end up bottlenecking the CD?

Sort of yeah. The bus between the CD and Mega Drive was way too slow.

How the fuck do I play Nights on PC?
PS2 version is japanese only,
Saturn only has shitty emulators, the only one that seemed to work (Yabause) has some weird glitch, stuff kept disappearing while pressing buttons, button mapping kept going all-over the place, movies don't show up for some reason, etc...

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Steam

Butchered port.

>buying from Steam
Never. I have some morals.

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