What the fuck happened to Open World games?

>Open World
>good

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It didn't have much pepperoni, but the cheese was fucking TASTY

If its big and has shiny graphics people will buy it.

>1980 open world game

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Ubisoft did it a decade ago

Isn't the No.1 most beloved game in the world an open world game?

>you're tripping over shit
It’s funny because Korok seeds are literal shit.

Isn't this really just video games up till 2005? And it's only gotten worse

It actually existed, but its fucking DnD and Hydlide

>entitled

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>popular game must be good

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>food analogy

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big pepperoni nipples

Open world games used to be smaller, and/or segmented into zones because of technological limitations. Now, hardware is good enough that games can have huge seamless maps to explore. It's much easier to fill smaller areas with meaningful content, so instead modern open world games feel mostly barren with the same amount of content spread thin over a much wider area.

Doesn't get more true than this post.

Big open levels > Open world

Open world games were always a boring excuse for having no actual level design. People were just excited by them because it was new.

This guy looks like Prince Harry with aids

They stopped being about pizza and more about less about pizza.

so regular prince harry

You know these nipples aren't a bad example, its just open world game have evolved

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can i an analogy not made for fat people

They decided to go for "cinematic", so every mission have to be on rails even if the world isn't

A lot of open-world games today don't even have a jump button, the best you have is some context sensitive "press x to parkour"

I want pizza

open world is a stupid meme and I wish it would die already. you always just end up zigzaging from one pepperoni to another without actually paying any attention to what you're supposed to be doing or where the story wants you to go. halfway through you realize they're all the same and either force yourself to keep eating them or go online to look up where the sausage pieces are and ignore everything else. then when you're finally done with the toppings the pizza that's left isn't even worth finishing.

Open world is a shit meme and not necessary for every genre
The sooner brainlets like you realize this the better we will all be
instead we have a bunch of empty open worlds this gen

i dont know can you

IMAGINE BEING AT COMPUTERS SO FAT

>What the fuck happened to Open World games?

By telling developers not everything has to be a fucking open world game. All they do is fill the game with empty fetch quests we have seen a million times. For gods sake, do something original. You don't have to chase every damn trend.

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The more effort put into graphics, animation and voice acting to meet expectations of a modern audience, the harder it is to deliver the immense task of making an "open world" game.
It's much easier to write up a step by step scenario for a linear videogame and fill it with good content then it is to create the "anything can happen" allure of an open world game(that is never the case).
The point is, open world games will always be empty, because what people want from them is a developmental fantasy.

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skyrim is the best open world game ever released

what makes a game good then?

You make it sounds like true open world should be relegated to the tiny world of True roguelikes, where programmers can insert a truly absurd level of detail in their ASCII games and have stories made on the fly via mechanical interaction.

yeah i guess korok seeds and shrines are noteworthy "discoveries" for a certain contingent of society.

Unironically this. If anything is the full pepperoni pizza, it's BotW.

>shrines
>environmental puzzles and riddles
>sidequests
>korok challenges
>towers
>horses to tame
>towns and stables
>enemy encampments that can be conquered in a variety of ways
>chests containing weapons and armor
>wildlife to hunt
>resources
>climate hazards and other navigational obstacles
>countless one-off discoveries like the horse god, the lord of the mountain, the great fairies, the dragons, the labyrinths, the cursed statue, the monster shop, etc.

Even the map design was handcrafted to focus on the density of content. Very few areas have wasted space and among the ones that do, it's immediately obvious and serves some other purpose instead.

>entitled
I will continue to not buy the garbage they put out.

NO
YOU CAN'T DO THAT YOU INCEL
THESE POOR DEVS ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR MONEY
BUY THEIR FUCKING GAMES RIGHT NOW, AND GET THE SEASON PASS WHILE YOU'RE AT IT YOU ENTITLED MANCHILD

>Wasting valuable stomach space on crust instead of another slice
Ok homo

You're right, but nobody accuses Ubisoft games of being empty in the first place so I don't know what your point is. Ubisoft games have an entirely different problem; they lack a sense of discovery because all the shit you can do on the map is instantly marked the moment you chart out the area.

I'd love to hear about these pre-2010 open world games that were just chocked full of content, NPC interactions, and exploration.

No please, tell me. Because from what I can recall, open world gaming has been relatively the same boring shit for the past 2 decades with the exception of a few good ones like BotW, TW3, and RDR that actually have somewhat interesting worlds to explore.

Fucking this. I know hating open world games is the hot new meme now because of its increased popularity within the past decade, but the truth is that they've never been better, even if they still have a long way to go.

Honestly I have to agree. I never felt bored wandering around the BotW map, which is more than I can say for a lot of open world games. Visual design meant I could spot landmarks and mysteries from a good distance, enemies were paced enough to be constant but not inescapable. Whole game felt like open world pacing done right.

Now all they need to do is diversify the kinds of things you can find, properly add some underground and water biomes you can explore, and the second game will be a proper 11/10.

I think "true open worlds" is a developmental impossibility. To do it right would take a massive development team and years of work(and I mean genuine work, not floundering failure shit like with most Vaporware) to achieve an open world game with the refined quality of a linear map.

Please name a few big open world games with adequate content and a release date before 2000.
Actual open world games back then were tiny and/or extremely ugly. Games like Daggerfall had a massive amount of empty content without any kind of design or rhyme put into it.

Morrowind and GTA:SA come to mind.
Those had actual content, unlike the three games you've listed.

Do linear maps have "refined quality"? Because I recall a ton of linear games having little to no engaging or memorable content at all.

What would a "refined" open world look like anyway? Tripping over enemies every two seconds?

spoken like a true zoomer that's never played those games

Oblivion had tons of content too but vast stretches of procedurally generated land were still empty until the unique landscapes mudpack filled out every region with handcrafted content.

>TW3
>good ones

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Gothic 1 and 2

A Link to the Past

they were never good.

ac origins did it right

>No.1 most beloved game in the world
But tetris is not open world?

>GTA:SA

You can't be fucking serious.

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yeah but there are lots of other little small things to find as well, enemy settlements areas with different weapons, ingredients ect

nice rebuttal, cuck

Do you even fucking know what zoomer means you buttblasted tranny?
Oblivion isn't procedually generated. There's randomized loot and random Oblivion gates but it isn't procedually generated.

>food analogy

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imagine defending feathers in Asscreed 2 lol

I can count the number of good hub world games on one hand. Also crafting systems are usually shit. Gay list.

ALttP isn't open world you absolute moron.
Just kill yourself already.

other open world games does the same thing, it's just slightly more varied in botw.

What rebuttal do you even need? San Andreas' map speaks for itself in how barren it is.

why do zoomers and some boomers want to have something to do in every corner of the world? the best moments in zelda were the ones where I could just slowly go to my destination by horse and just admire the beautiful world, then I had to dismount because I detected a shrine and ruin my immersion.

I guess kids these days don't know about ultima?

Not him but you could have at least detailed something instead of namedropping. Morrowind is a given since it's one of the last proper RPG expriences Bethesda offered. San Andreas, however, has nothing to keep you going besides the same colectathon shit 3 and Vice City had, Story is loaded with shit but it doesn't excuse the Sandbox being flat shit that is only entertaining if your rampaging.

It's varied and fun thanks to its interactivity, as well as its robust physics and chemistry systems. I haven't played another open world that achieved that on quite the same level, and I've played an awful lot of them.

Bethesda showed you could just slap something together, leave it mostly empty with a few "random" quests and be wildly successful in sales.

I would argue that The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall wasn't like a toppingless pizza, but instead like a pizza except someone dumped a dozen different take-out foods on top of it and it turned into a chaotic mess of disgustingly inedible shit.
There was a lot of it. More of it than you could ever conceivably play or see. But it was utter, absolute and complete SHIT.

Varied but it sacrificed things such as Enemy Diversity and Unique Bosses/Dungeons to do so. I'm hoping BoTW2 is a bit more impressive Beastiary wise.

>it's not good because it's only entertaining
It certainly was impressive for 2004, featuring 3 cities and tons of missions.

What content does SA have? You growing up with it doesn't instantly make it better.

To me the full pepperoni is Banjo-Kazooie. The worlds aren't large but an interesting thing to do is within eyeshot 98% of the time in its worlds with next to no filler inbetween and free reign to tackle it in any order you desire. BotW's overworld wandering was okay but the stuff you found while wandering was pretty inconsistent in intrigue. Some of it was really good but other times it underwhelmed, and there was a lot more dead air between those points of interest. I don't think it's the same thing as something as compact yet content rich for the space it inhabits as Banjo-Kazooie, but in BotW's defense it's also a vastly larger game even without the dead air.

I can see this fat bitches chin hairs

>Food analogies

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What a shock, that's on food wrappers.

Fuck off, Hypocrite.

>Hub World
>Based

>Loading screens
>Cringe

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>Some of it was really good but other times it underwhelmed

I completely disagree. BK had a lot of mundane and outright tedious shit, whereas the stuff I didn't like was fairly minimal compared to stuff I enjoyed in BotW.

>Based/Cringe

Why do I keep coming here?

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>respectful dialogue
Based
>problematic dialogue
Cringe
0/10 bait.

98% of which are copy+paste of other locations and absolutely useless

BotW is not good

Yeah but you're a nintenbaby

If you're not being arbitrary with what you consider "interesting", you could say the exact same thing about Breath of the Wild. With the exception of very few areas, there's generally always SOMETHING to do within eyeshot.

The enemy variety thing ties into the weapon degradation. Because weapons break so quickly, you need to be fighting enemies that drop weapons that you can pick up yourself. This locks them into a largely humanoid cast of foes. I do hope they figure out a way around this for the sequel, though

It's better than odyssey at least. Both games lack structure making them boring. You have to be dumb enough to fall for the illusion to really enjoy it. muh freedom is a dogshit design philosophy. BOTW is a caricature of zelda 1.

Yeah but I'm not, and I'm very likely older than you.

>If you're not being arbitrary with what you consider "interesting"
Imagine arguing in bad faith this blatantly.

>and I'm very likely older than you.
T.underage/eternally underage (manchild)

>not having enough stomach space for 5 slices and their respective crusts
I seriously hope you twigs don't do this.

How is it arguing in bad faith? Interesting is subjective, and I'd argue a ton of things in Banjo are fairly uninteresting, so it's better to just compare actual content density. BotW is quite strong on that front.

test

yes who is it?

Name one good 1980-2010 open world game
Name one good 2010+ open world game

3D happened

I favor quality over quantity but the big areas give more opportunity for hunting, foraging, and the feel of adventure.

Also, if the pizza was a pan pizza, it would definitely enhance quality. Use that in future analogies.

Imagine genuinely being such a brainlet you take the stance of vapid relativism and still try to argue hypocritically.
>we literally can't judge the merit of content okay the better game is the one more densely packed with junk look at all these korok seeds! look yet another moblin camp. checkmate banjo fags!

This is the best food analogy i have ever seen
Absolutely fucking not, korok seeds don't count, they are more like a little salt or pepper added to the pizza than a real topping

The shrines are proper toppings but they are low quality weeks out of date toppings that make you ill

You lost me at dialogue and crafting.

Morrowind
oblivion (maybe less so on on the exploration since it's mostly a flat plane and the shivering isles weren't actually that big)
hell even skyrim has all that even if it's in a shit form

Is he wrong

this is an easy fix

1) remove weapon degradation
2) make everything more expensive
3) introduce weapon crafting/disassembling
4) make weapons more valuable and have value

Even if they don't remove weapon degradation I hope they make the master sword have a slow constant recharge instead of requiring the player to completely break it before it starts to recharge

I don't know why you're being so defensive. Comparing content density is better because we can actually have a discussion instead of shit-flinging over the "merit of content". Many challenges and even certain areas in Banjo are a clunky mess, but I acknowledged that we might disagree on which game has more enjoyable content, so it comes down to which one more often includes content within eyeshot like you originally said.

finding the shrines is the best content in botw. most shrines themselves are repetitive, and worse don't give you a very good reward, unlike simple heart pieces they are both visually boring and too great in number to hold your attention to do it for completionist sake, and the game isn't hard enough for HP and stamina upgrades to really be valuable. You think they could have added some optional permanent items to buy with the orbs or something. If they had the sense to realize less is more when it comes to armor they could have probably done something with that.

Is he right? What content does SA's map have? Are you seriously arguing that it doesn't have vast, endless stretches of emptiness?

The seeds for Odyssey were already planted by SMG, which in turn influenced 3D World, further-influencing Odyssey, i.e. "Mario wanders around a huge, non-linear, platforming-minimal map a significant portion of the game with lots of pretty setpieces", open-world shit added to the bad gameplay decision pile, but Mario was already starting to go down this road after Sunshine alienated a huge chunk of their audience

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Trump shrank the open world, it's too scary now

>I don't know why you're being so defensive
I'm making fun of you because you're a retard. I'm not the guy you were arguing about with banjo kazooie.

You can have an actual discussion on the merit of content as well if you aren't a brainlet and have some actual knowledge of game design. You think "well I liked it! it's all a matter of opinion bro!" is a credible stance to take? It doesn't matter if two people disagree on what is enjoyable, it doesn't make both equally right. Make an argument for why something is enjoyable and why something isn't. If the game is only good because the player has low standards it's a shitty game because low standards players will enjoy anything.

that last one on the Based list shouldn't be there. is Skyrim a better game because it has a fucking tidal wave of useless shit that can be picked up? if every time I open a wardrobe, the only thing in it is an iron, some raggedy clothes, and a roll of paper... why bother making wardrobes a thing you can interact with?

if I wanted to dig through a closet, I have one of those right behind me. seriously, putting a bunch of useless shit in the game, just to make it ***immersive*** is a cheap, stupid trick to make the player think they are getting something good without actually giving them anything

>and worse don't give you a very good reward, unlike simple heart pieces

Wait, what? They literally give you heart pieces. Actually they give you something better: a piece that gives you the choice between more hearts or more stamina, not to mention they're found within a cool puzzle chamber instead of some random hole in the ground.

Oblivion's world was mostly procedurally generated and then saved. There was a big deal about it at the time because Morrowind was fully hand crafted.

Yeah, 3D world was very obnoxious with the setpeices, very much flash without substance.

Odysseys gameplay is dogshit though. again no structure moons are the dumbest idea there ever was, it makes every bit of gameplay minor and simplistic to scale with the size. At least baby games let you platform though an actual level.

Sure the countrysides are kind of empty but the city is filled with unique stuff, at least the starting city was

read my comment again retard.

Proof or ur a poof

BotW flaws are a lack of major dungeons and maybe some caves and proper rewards for side quests, enemy variety as well. Otherwise the lack of waypoint markers and just trusting the player to find things pays out so much more and allows for a lot more fun to be had. Im playing Witcher 3 right now and the world is beautiful for sure, but the fact that everything is marked for you and the map is so busy makes it so hard to just go through the world on an adventure and makes every thing you do involve completing a question mark or quest.

BotW gave me a sense of discovery and adventure I hadnt felt in a long time while playing games, things were just discovered on their own, not involved in some quest or deliberate marker.

The only time in TW3 Ive found that was accidently starting the spirit in the tree quest before it was given.

RDR2 has a fairly good balance though, while quest markers are plenty, the world has tons of little houses, towns or spots to see and visit and easter eggs that arent directly involved in quests and objectives so exploration is still really enjoyable and fresh. Hunting also gives a ton of purpose to travelling throughout the new regions.

I think TW3 is probably the end result of a ton of open world ideas that are now 4 years later seen as dated and frustrating, but done overall very very well. Whereas BotW was a highly effective sandbox that if built on properly in its sequel will easily be the best open world game of all time. Trusting the player to discover things and allowing full freedom of movement is the best use of the open world meme.

RDR2 is a somewhat middle ground, leaving heavily towards the normal style of open world games, rife with quest markers and the like, but enough actual easter eggs and sense of wonder to give the players a proper sense of discovery.

deus ex

>You can have an actual discussion on the merit of content as well

People have made arguments for the merit of its content in this very thread, like . Learn to actually read instead of attacking people's intelligence because they're rightfully acknowledging something to be a subjective topic.

you can just turn map markers off in all those open world games. That's really not how they are designed to be played though. You follow a structured route and can wander off the path as you desire. When they give you a waypoint they just make you travel a very limited road and let you wander off if anything catches your interest.

>Why do linear maps have refined quality
Because restricting a players progress down a limited number of paths allows one to do things like map out encounter sequences/events with certainty.
Open world gameplay is limited to points on a map, because the investment it would take to fine-tune an event around 360 degrees and beyond of possible encounter scenarios would be almost impossible.

I guess my point is, videogames are a narration of something. You have a level of freedom in this "narration", but you're still following the idea of the game as the developer intends, the design is still there.

Open World is a meme that focuses on the idea of a videogame being less of a narration and more of a simulation. There is a implication of endless possibility, like in real life. But a game engine can not translate real life, only the bare basic shell of an idea to entertain the player.
Open World is a meme, created by a consumer who doesn't realize his video game is an interactive theater. You can't climb that mountain, it's just a painting on the back wall of a stage.

archive.rpgamer.com/games/elderscrolls/elder4/elder4interview.html
Third last question

big fucking baloney nipples

You didn't answer my question, reworded my question into something I didn't ask, and answered it with pretentious nonsense. Impressive.

it was the same cheese they use on everything else
and for twenty dollars you can get even more cheese

>you can just turn off markers
There are so few interesting landmarks in the W3 overworld that you'd have to leave them on just to see where you'd have to go.
I see and stand corrected although OP has clearly been talking about content and not landscapes. Content in Oblivion was still handplaced, they just used procedual generation to create mountains, hills and such.

sure is

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it's all been meta meta meta trolling since 2010. try to keep on your toes, nothing is fresh but everything is moving

The problem is that SA is mostly countryside and Los Santos was frontloaded with most of the content.

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books had text on all the pages but now they only have it on some of the pages and you're expected to treat the blank pages between the wordy pages like they're part of the story

The state of BOTW fags. we don't accept your aphorisms. Be specific or fuck off. "it's fun because physics" explain how they physics make the game fun, because much more credible arguments have been make that look at what you can actually DO with the physics, looking at each shrine and how being limited to a handful of tools makes them play the same, makes many of the solutions familiar, using the physics for fighting enemies or sliding down hills is a novelty ( less practical than just using normal gameplay to deal with these things) without any depth. It's "fun" for all of one minute.

The consensus is that BOTW is fun if you you avoid playing most of the game. If you get just enough orbs to get the master sword, beat the four beasts and briefly visit each area it's a decent game, but it all falls apart if you actually try to invest time into mastering it.

Physics isn't all botw is, you need to show why the game is good holistically, "this game is good because I enjoyed one element of it" Is that all you nintenbabies want out of a game? One neat feature in a pile of shit?

what is your opinion on Red Dead Revolver 2?

personally, my ideals are Horizon Zero Dawn, and Dragon Age: Inquisition. HZD has a lot of stuff to do, but it is very focused. every mission has a story, or contributes to the main plot. that game is as tight as Aloy's abs.

Inquisition is the exact opposite, with a shitload of dumb little missions, everywhere. it isn't Skyrim-level of pointless fetch-quests, but there is a ton of busywork. However, a lot of things you do have an impact on the world. characters are killed or saved, towns rebuilt, quests are opened by certain decisions, and so on. Even more so, the side characters are just sublime. I like having characters i can care about, and will play through hours, just to get more of their personal stories

Around 2010 it became less about being a game and more about being a "sandbox" where the player can "do anything".

>t. Brainlet
Your reworded question is what you actually asked for. You gave a rhetorical question to blast the claim of a "refined" linear game while also mocking the idea of a "refined" open world has being jokingly realistic.
By being a contrarian faggot, you were basically asking what I meant by "refined open world".

underrated post
PC games have been open-world from day 1. Granted... the quality has been questionable... But GTA didn't invent anything

>nobody accuses Ubisoft games of being empty in the first place
They definitely do, but they get less shit because they at least take place in densely packed cities instead of giant barren fields.

>explain how they physics make the game fun

It's self-explanatory if you've played the game for more than five minutes:

>allows the devs to design puzzles with multiple solutions
>aids in experimentation with combat, with some creative methods actually being more efficient than fighting regularly
>allows the devs to create more hazards in the environment, forcing players to adapt and find ways to bypass said hazards
>allows for more puzzle variety than "shoot the eye switch" type puzzles

You sound incredibly butthurt and appear to be taking this personally.

They also get less shit because they are obvious kusoge that no one gives a shit about. They are shamelessly generic and functional. The fact that Nintendo is following Ubisoft design trends makes it all the more hilarious.

>we'll never get anything like prototype ever again
the abortion of a sequel made absolutely sure of it

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Not really. People complain about Ubisoft games for being a checklist of pointless busywork, but the reason it often feels like a checklist is because of the way it automatically dots the map with points of interest instead of letting people find those activities organically. It doesn't trust you as a player, so you're kind of just mindlessly waltzing towards an objective without the element of surprise to make it feel like you're exploring anything.

Maps are too big filled with repetitive content.
Gothic 2 is a great example as always how to make open world the right way.

>It's self-explanatory if you've played the game for more than five minutes:

>physics gives the devs the potential to do things they didn't execute well in the actual game.
You don't have do theoretically look at how physics will affect the game, it's already out. They gave you a handful of tools at the start with limited uses. The shrines become repetitive and the combat applications are novelty gimmicks.

At least the potato nigger had the intelligence to argue BOTWs merits as what it represents in principle (muh freedom, being radically different from prior games in the series) instead of trying to argue what's different is actually a good game.

The gameplay isn't fun which is why it's busywork. Finding filler on your own isn't enjoyable. At least botw has the sense to try to hide most of the shrines.

botw apologists are funny. always posting bullshit and always get BTFO about how botw is nothing but empty space with the occasional enemy or korok seed.

People started telling "there's nothing to do" at everything, when in most games it clearly is not true. Also people in here are too young to remember Yea Forums going "famous game + open world! Genious idea" on every game.

I'm not arguing theoreticals, I'm listing what was actually designed in the game. You're greentexting something I never said.

Imagine falsely accusing someone of posting in bad faith and then going on to do exactly that.

>The shrines become repetitive and the combat applications are novelty gimmicks.

How? Be specific or fuck off.

People thought open worlds would scale the same as structured worlds, like an open world pokemon or whatever. When the games started coming out people realized open world was trash unless they were too stupid to notice the difference.

>when will consumers realize they dont ACTUALLY like the things they like

what the fuck are you talking about, retard

But again, that doesn't mean it's empty. Nobody shits on AssCreed games for being empty, they shit on them for being formulaic, putting the bare minimum of effort into their content and dotting the map with busywork.

>I'm not arguing theoreticals
But you are you literal brainlet. You are saying how it allows the devs to have the potential to do something instead of looking at what they actually did with it. Yeah you can solve some puzzles with multiple solutions, how does this play out in reality? How different are the shrines in reality? In just how many different ways can you use the physics altering items? Protip: videos have gone into depth on these very things and the results are very underwhelming.

Imagine being so fat that you look at video games and see food.

>Content is not real if I don't like it
I never understood why people cry so much about BotW, it really isn't empty, but for some reason some people are still adamant on that it is. It's fine if you don't enjoy it, it happens that you can dislike something that's good.

>it's a walking simulator

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you seem to be mistaken, your post is claiming that walking simulators are good when we all know that's not the case

most people here are loveless hermits that order delivery pizza at least once a day to consume alongside their PC emulators of console games, so it makes sense pizza comes to mind when games do

So it's good and it's pretty much the one type of game that satisfies Italian autism?

Your passive aggressive sissyfag prose is so obnoxious. Go back to plebbit.

Sinking city is one of the better examples of an open world I've played in recent years. You've got a large city split into sunken sections below water you traverse in a boat and above water sections that are usually a few city blocks in size.

One thing I really like is that a lot of the progression isn't handholdy and hasnt been tried before to my knowledge. If you're investigating a crime then you go to the police station to search the archives for similar crimes in the area to find who the suspect is, then you find a known address for one of his associates and find the address on the map and mark it before proceeding forward.

Kinda sad that all it takes for a game to get me engaged is literally just let me play it instead of doing everything for me but oh well.

Kingdom Come has the best Open World in the last couple years, and it's a narrative driven game with a preset protagonist.

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'exploring' areas that are empty except for the occasional korok seed or enemy isn't content.

it's just randomly generated terrain and randomly dropping in enemies.

>Not just eating 2/3'rds of the pizza and discarding that shitty crust

What the fuck are you babbling about, retard? No, I'm looking at what they actually did with it -- i.e. designing puzzles with multiple solutions, designing a variety of both physics based and more traditional puzzles that make use of these items in considerably different ways, and tying those elements into the game's philosophy of player freedom. The videos that have actually gone into depth on this subject show the results to be pretty mindblowing, if anything.

FUCK OPEN WORLD GAMES

>thinking margharita is anything but contentless hipster shit

youve clearly never played the game, enjoy bandwagoning on this meme while it lasts

Funny that you mentioned that, I also really enjoyed kingdom come deliverance and I swear Sinking City's protagonist is just Henry with PTSD and a bad case of the batshit insanity

Stay seething sn*yd. Better dillate.

Good thing every area in BotW has more than those two things.

women really are repulsive

Key word:
Shit

Fuck off amerilard

unfortunately I bought it and regret it. I can make a better game in unreal by simply using randomly generated terrain tools.

ok, korok seed, generic enemy, AND pick mushrooms. wow!

>What the fuck are you babbling about, retard?
specifics. Something your nintenbaby mind can't comprehend.
>The videos that have actually gone into depth on this subject show the results to be pretty mindblowing, if anything.
lmao yeah andersons vid was pretty "mindblowing" that's for sure. BOTW gets the consolation prize of "wow I respect what the game was going for, even if it turns out what it was going for ended up sucking" You brainlets think the game is actually good lmao.

American opinions are worth 1/3rd of a regular opinion.
1/5th when it comes to food.

This. should kill them when they have their first period desu.

>you were basically asking what I meant by "refined open world".

Yes, I was. You didn't answer that question and just posted word vomit.

I'll even ask a second time: what exactly would a refined open world look like? Tripping over enemies every centimeter?

Go away Joseph, your video was shit.

s e e t h e

BOTW isn't that bad if you play it as little as possible (safe running straight to ganon) It's total shit if you want to experience most/all of the content of course (i'm not even considering korok seeds) You have to want to like the game to get though it. If you let the illusion wear off it becomes extremely boring and everything feels pointless.

try refuting it, the comments are always hilarious, like back when bioshock infinite casuals tried to defend the game in the matthewmatosis review.

fuck you say nigga?

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Good thing I am not one then. Seems like you have no rebuttals anyway.
Face the facts. Meaty pizza is the way to go.

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some of the saddest bait this board has seen in a while

Well it's a bit ordinary, as in it's mostly just villages and a keep or two, but it's all just so well done. The topography is very realistic too, you can tell they used that satellite scanning tech, it doesn't feel like it was made by one guy in hammer editor

Sliding around with a still image from box to box isn't exactly what people would expect open world to be nowadays. I say that having a deep love and respect towards Ultima IV

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no argument

I honestly never finished it because I really didn't like it, but maybe I'll replay it and just rush through as fast as possible. Wandering empty fields isn't fun. It wasn't fun back in OOT and it sure as hell isn't fun in BOTW when the scale is upped by like 100. This is why Majora's Mask is still the best 3D zelda

>literal fingol nigger
Kill yourself autistic shiteater

learn to form an argument. 2/10 bait

>preset protagonist
Arguable. All protagonists are preset to some degree unless you literally start at birth with a diceroll, but that's obviously not possible. Henry is still very much a blank slate, though granted slightly more defined than say, a TES character

My favourite botw critique was when superbunnyhob genuinely wasn't sure if he was allowed to admit the game was shit or not. It was so genuine, "I must be having fun right?"

dont need one, your spastic rants basically refute themselves

yet people loved botw

...

MM has as much empty field as OOT. But it actually strikes a balance between doing it's own thing and having actual zelda content, even if it's only like 4 dungeons. TP is the opposite, it's well made pure zelda with an underdeveloped hook, while botw just isn't zelda at all while claiming to be zelda 1.

Yea, most of the things you can find are just hidden in normal shit. Bandit camps, monster nests and treasure just sit there in the middle of nowhere. Nothing is really marked by anything intersting.

Its a good game, great dialogue and story, if very padded at times with way to many quests. But the gameplay and exploration are pretty mundane. Yet I find myself enjoying it anyway.

they loved the dopamine rush they got from getting the latest AAA title they're allowed to enjoy according to contemporary opinion

>food analogies with video games
Cringe

>specifics

And yet you specified nothing. You said it wasn't designed that way when it blatantly was.

>lmao yeah andersons vid was pretty "mindblowing" that's for sure

Anderson's vid spent a lot of pointless time babbling over points that could have been condensed in considerably less time while missing the forest for the trees, and even then, he said he enjoyed the overworld. KingK's review was better.

Just did a quest in Rattay in which i had to pick among the refugees 3 men to carry buckets of water and 2 to clean latrines, all 8 or so of the people available had backstories and personalities. When i came back to the town later I found the people I selected carrying the buckets of water from a well to the trader stalls. That felt really nice, character writing in the game is just top shelf, despite the terrible animations and dodgy voice acting, every character in the game feels alive. Shame it still feels so unfinished at version 1.9.

>basically refute
That means you still lost your own pretend debate because you didn't make any arguments and the opponent wasn't completely refuted you fucking beta retard.

You can't even win arguments in your own head hahaha what the fuck

Literally exactly the opposite is true

>good ones like TW3

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pathetic botw apologist

>while missing the forest for the trees
lol retard.
>okay the game is total shit but if you put it all together it's a golden turd!
> KingK's review was better
lol no. Of course you would like that garbage channel. too brainlet to even take the matosis route to botw apologetics.
>he said he enjoyed the overworld
the overworld would be fine if the actual content it hides was any good. The best part of BOTW is finding the shrines, not actually going into them.

MM has a small hub outside clock town leading to all the points of interests. It's nowhere near the size of OOT. TP and WW still feel like zelda games, BOTW is just ubishit

>now he's shitting on matthew matosis just to cling to his point

Yikes.

>MM has a small hub outside clock town leading to all the points of interests

so does OOT. one leads to death mountain, one to castle,one kakariko, one to gerudo,hylia and the starting area. it's just a small hub with romani ranch in the middle. it takes a few seconds to get to any of the main areas, and the hub itself just has some secret holes to bomb and some poes. Hyrule field is small as fuck, and it genuinely takes longer to get places in the 2D games.

WAy to prove his point you retard.

I already shit on MM. You have been too salty to finish reading my posts. MM went full pseud and has been trash since the sonic dreams review. he stopped talking about the games content and started talking about "what they represent" he used to be much more balanced and subtle in this regard. He did atleast btfo anderson with the GOW video being much more concise.

Dwarf Fortress
Cataclysm
Deus Ex
Morrowind
Gothic 2
GTA 3 4 5 SA Vice City

hyrule field is much larger than termina field. stop baiting

>The best part of BOTW is finding the shrines, not actually going into them.

That just means that, to some degree, you are arguing the overworld has merit. The overworld itself is teeming with a lot of neat puzzles, shrine quests and navigational challenges, so finding the shrines is often an enjoyable activity.

>entitled
get back to where you once belonged

>game is better with more content

did we really need a picture of pizzas to figure this one out?

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are zoomers calling deus ex open world now?

>That just means that, to some degree, you are arguing the overworld has merit

it's almost like BOTW fits the fucking image of the thread of not having enough pepperoni you easily amused retard.

Those retards also call a rougelike/management simulation open world now.

Jesus Christ American pizza is so terrible. I really feel bad for you guys because the stuff you eat is all garbage.

The stuff I listed is everywhere on the map, so I'd say that's plenty of pepperoni. It's more like you're whining about a meat lover's pizza because you didn't like the sausage they used.

substantial/good content=/= more content. The size of the pizza represents a pacing/structure issue, implying open worlds are a detriment unless they actually want to invest the level of content to scale with it. What that would really mean if putting 2 or 3 or more games worth of ideas into one, which usually isn't a good business move. Companies love to push the open world meme because it's easy and profitable. You just make a shell of a game and retards eat it up.

Fuck off europoors, your pizzas don't even have sauce.

obsessed

>Actually they give you something better: a piece that gives you the choice between more hearts or more stamina
so path of exile passive tree but with even less options

>so I'd say that's plenty of pepperoni.
And you're wrong because the garbage you listed is garbage. back to trying to argue for "lots of things to do!" again. Look at all those fucking korok seeds. what a "neat" little puzzle picking up that rock was! Boy I sure love yet another shitty combat shrine. I love navigating to another area with fuck all to do!

I'd rather play something like Breath of the Wild, Morrowind or RDR where I can actually take in the enviroment and get immersed in the world over things Ubishit, Witcher 3 etc where you trip over points of interest every 3 secods and just follow markers 99% of the time.
It's like you retards forgot what the entire point of the open world was.

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I actually wasn't even referring to Koroks, but I'm sure you'll keep moving that goalpost.

>comparing morrowind to trash like botw

let's be honest, you've never played morrowind.

The sauce is under the cheese, retard.

FYI I bought Morrowind and both expansions on release, it's probably my most played game of all time. Get fucked.
I don't give a shit about an opinion of a literal who shitposter, it's not even about the quality of the games but about how the open world works.

Jesus Christ

People didn't like them, so devs added this to help them out.

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It is for us too, but at least we actually have some. We don't pussy out on our ingredients unlike you faggots.

>just put on moar stuff, moar is gudder
based 'mericans

Emphasis on size over content.

Old school video games were limited by hardware, so maps had to be small and dense. You could walk from town into a fight or important spot immediately.

New games dont have that limitation, so devs make this fuckhuge maps with nothing in them. Its stupid, a tiny map packed with content is far better than having empty spaces.

I think thats one reason why Dark Souls has always been fun, there is barely any empty space at all, usually the next enemy is just seconds away from the last bonfire.

This killed the rpg.

Pizzas need sauce and yours has too much cheese, fat bong. Deal with it.

>113 unique ips

What is it with food analogies that resonates with so many people?

No area is "empty except for an occasional korok seed", so it's all good I guess.

>No area is "empty except for an occasional korok seed"

Are you counting trees as content or something?

it's ok to be blind user. Just don't post your retarded opinions on the internet, thanks!

Trees, mushrooms, the sky, rocks, cliffs, small lizards and such.

>crust is 1/3 of the pizza
what sad pizza are you eating?

Walking and staring at mountains is not content.

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It's funny how BOTWtards never can form arguments and just resort to sperging out. It's obvious why, if you had an argument you could present it. But you have no argument so you can only shitpost.

Whatever happened to this, was the woman charged with assault?

>No smaller pizza with the amount of pepperoni like top right

thats all I want

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I meant eat 2/3rds of the pizza's slices and throw the crusts from those away.

but you can walk, stare at mountains, AND gather plants! so much fun

here
>but it doesn't count
>but I don't like it
>b-but
ok snoy, fuck off now

Look at the fucking OP. That's what open world games used to be, and now they're empty trash collecting simulators.

Elden ring is going to change everything.

I prefer linear games with replayabilty, like Lost Planet 2 or Snake Eater.

>leaving a 1/3 for later, when you obviously eat 2/3s in a sitting, leaving only half of a meal for later
disgusting

Other than korok seeds and shrines, all of these are things you do one or two times and then stop doing because they’re a waste of time. Maybe you occasionally look off path and shot some copy pasted retarded animal, but that doesn’t stop the game from being 90% walking, running, climbing, or gliding. I’m not even exaggerating, and the time you do get into combat it is universally boring. BotW is truly impressive in that it gave you so many things to do and made none of them fun

>woman charged with assault
sweety...this is 2019 feminism makes sure women can't be charged for that mess

>other than korok seeds and shrines
>and sidequests
>and NPCs developing the universe of the game
>towns
>and one-off discoveries

I didn't stop doing them and I didn't feel like they were a waste of time. Here's a non-reply to your non-argument.

which boils down to
>small occasional shrines
>korok seeds
>fight occasional enemies
>gather mushrooms
>wander empty areas
great game there

>snoy
About as much as I'd expect from a BOTWtard. BOTW gets shit on by people who grew up with actual zelda games with things to do in the overworlds and dungeons. snoyboys love sony template shit where you wander through forests. botw is closest to snoyshit.

Also Korok seeds are the same 7 puzzles recycled 900 times.
Literally.

>sidequests
like more wandering or fetch quests?
>NPCs developing the universe of the game
what a hilarious nonstatement. every game with npcs now are "developing the universe of the game"
>one off discoveries
more korok seeds
>towns
so few and far between with little to do. clock town alone has more to do than every town in botw combined.

There literally are waypoint markers in the game though. The most they really expect you to find on your own is when they put a shrine inside of a hill or mountain and want you to walk all the way around to outside of where you are detecting the shrine to then enter the mountain that way. But that’s just lazy design that expects you’ll look it up or use a guide, or be enough of a cuckold to actual do all the nothing that is searching this games oversized areas up and down to find 1/120 shrines

>BOTW gets shit on by people who grew up with actual zelda games
Most zelda games are shit and a complete waste of time. Exceptions are Zelda I, The Adventure of Link, Link's Awakening, Majora ALBW and BOTW.
Every 3D zelda besides BOTW is literal zoomer garbage.
Majora is shit too, but has such an interesting universe that I'm ready to forgive its shittiness.
BOTW is universally acclaimed and one of the best game of this generation. The only people who disagree is retarded

>Im braindead and enjoy doing repetitive things over and over therefore you should be braindead too

>being so butthurt over a fairly well-backed and articulated post that you couldn't bother to formulate coherent replies

Apply yourselves.

Imagine being such a fucking loser. Considering the shrine radar exists.

>BOTW tards can only resort to shitposting
what a sad bunch. So bitter from having their shit game constantly criticized. Go to reddit if you want a hugbox.

ok retard

>well-backed and articulated post

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>BOTW gets shit on by people who grew up with actual zelda games

I've most likely been playing this series longer than you have, and I had a blast with it.

The two oracles games, too.

Same things that happened to movies. The need to create increasingly "visual" experiences lead to inflating costs of production, we could've stopped improving graphics and designing new gimmicky engines long ago and put that money into using what we had, but the general populace demanded more, bigger, better. The costs went up, and now games are made not by people with visions, but by graph-paper brained accountants, trying to find the best way to squeeze every dollar they can out of this industry before it deflates like a day old souffle

He just listed things though, without actually considering if those things are any fun. And some of them can be lumped together. ">environmental puzzles and riddles" goes with korok seeks, horses goes with stables, wildlife goes with resources, enemy encampments go with chests, towers barely quality as content, there's only 2 and a half towns.

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you started with skyward sword faggot zoomer

Good

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BOTW gets shit on by people who grew up with actual zelda games
uh, sweaty, people who actually grew up with the first Zelda games are way more likely to like BOTW.
How can anybody who isn't a literal autistic child enjoy the linear, piss easy zelda games like TP, Wind Waker, or the worst offender of all, Skyward Sword?
These games are zoomershit and I'm so fucking glad linear zelda is dead.

just make the worlds smaller then
running around finding nothing is boring

people who grew up with zelda games like dungeons, something botw doesn't even have you retard.

>side quests
Yeah lol fetch quest that are literally just the same gameplay as the rest of the game except with a human chest at the end are totally worth doing. Also i’m sure the embarrassing dialogue written for literal zoomer children makes up for almost the entire game being walking, running, climbing or gliding. All they have is ten seconds of novelty, they aren’t like trick jumps in Mario 64 where they are consistently used to make the game easier and faster despite being unnecessary to actually beating it, they have almost zero consequence on what you do later and you being a fucking goldfish and continuously redoing these pointless distractions does not change my point.

>enemy encampments go with chests,
>environmental puzzles and riddles" goes with korok seeks
>horses goes with stable
But that's wrong.
Environmental riddles go with story, universe building, koroks AND shrines.
Horses don't necessarily go with stables
And chests can also be a part of environmental riddles, not only enemy encampments
You either didn't play the game more than 10 minutes or don't remember it very well.

>taking over gang territory

Gameplay-wise, BOTW has better dungeons than literally all other zelda games.
Botw's worst offense is its lack of visual variety. I will concede that the visual aspect of the dungeons gets boring and repetitive very quickly.

But there are no environmental riddles that aren't korok seeds.
Horse taming is boring.
There's not many chests not tied to camps at all

pineapple on pizza is great when it has something spicy as a second topping

>What happened to Open World
Idiot devs wasting time in making the entire world a 1:1 scale environment full of nothing but flowers you can pick along the way as you spend minutes traveling between points of interest.

Previously, games had an "overworld" on which you travel quickly to the various points of interest, and since there wasn't a massive workload on making a detailed landmass of many square miles, they could actually put more effort into said points of interest.

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>thread about bad open world game design turns into a couple of screeching insecure botw fans rabidly defending that pile of shit
How appropriate.

>">environmental puzzles and riddles" goes with korok seeks

He was referring to shrine quests, retard.

>horses goes with stables

But he was talking about taming the horses. He put the stables in with towns, because that's basically what they are on a miniature scale.

>wildlife goes with resources

Granted, but hunting wildlife is more involved than just picking up flowers and gems.

>enemy encampments go with chests

No they don't. Chests are found outside of the encampments, they're not mutually exclusive.

>there's only 2 and a half towns

So you basically didn't play the game. There are six towns.

>botw
>not shit
kys

1/10

>He was referring to shrine quests, retard.

Which is basically only Kass.

>Gameplay-wise, BOTW has better dungeons than literally all other zelda games.
not really
the concept and structures of the divine beasts are good but the puzzles are alright at best and the sense of exploration through the dungeon is almost non-existent because you can do the puzzles in any order. They're also short.
As for the shrines, they're way too spread

>But there are no environmental riddles that aren't korok seeds.
I'm sorry what?
Literally every NPC development can be argued to be tied to environmental riddles. Did you miss all that?
And around twenty shrines have environmental riddles to access them.

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americans and their 'cuisine', proletarians...

Skyrim also has useless quest items that auto-delete once the quest is done.

>the puzzles are alright at best
I actually agree with that, because in the other 3D zelda, the puzzles are mediocre at best, which still makes BOTW the best one at it.

What went wrong?

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It takes overlapping mechanics systems to make an open world interesting, and that shit is too complex for AAA to pull off. You need a designer with soul to end up with a good open world game

Based

You have low standards for a riddle kid.

IDIOT. That happened in Russia. The police would laugh at the fortnitefaggot for being such a pussy in the first place.

lmao american style pizza

the puzzles in BotW are alright at best compared to other Zelda puzzles that are cooler
there
suck my dick

GTA 5

>not making a new pizza out of all the left over crust
Come on guys...

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I sure hope you don't think 3D Zelda games ever had a good riddle then.
The only other game that has acceptable riddles tied to interesting game mechanics is Majora.

This is why I hate BotWfags
They come near people who actually like Zelda and say shit like this. I bet you were born in 2001 anyway

That's not a defense.

>to other Zelda puzzles that are cooler
You should replay these games user.

>shoot the eye switch
>push the tile puzzle
>use dungeon item on obvious dungeon macguffin

Yeah so cool dude

Born in 1985, I'm a Zelda kid to the core and 3D zelda is zoomershit.

They peaked at Lemmings

Sakon's Hideout > any BotW shrine

Just look at a Wind Waker Playthrough bro. Every single riddle can be done by a literal 3 years old.
I don't understand how can any person with more than 80 I.Q. points not feel deeply insulted when playing a 3D zelda game

>Exceptions are Zelda I, The Adventure of Link, Link's Awakening, Majora ALBW and BOTW

Based. ALTTP is good too.

BotW had no dungeons and the shrine gameplay consisted of early 2000s tier “we finally have good physics engines and my autistic son made some puzzles for it”. The great part about Zelda dungeons was it gave you a new tool with set rules, and tried to create a dungeon that pushed you to discover the limits of what you could do with the new tool and what you already have, and then you would have to rethink all of that once you got to the next dungeon. Even ALBW managed something like this despite giving you everything from the start. BoTW with its piss easy reuse puzzles and “multiple solutions”(read: one intended solutions and one or two more brute force solutions that all other Zelda games were to tightly designed to allow for) was just boring and every shrine just felt like a chore. There are literally dungeons that were set up expecting you to use fire to in clever ways to finish the dungeon and open up new areas, but you can just toss bombs the whole time and practically waltz through.

Based and redpilled. BotW is the only 3D Zelda worthy of being as good as the 2D ones, only OoT zoomers think otherwise.

wind waker wasn't finished, they planned to have many more dungeons, it never had time to ramp the complexity up. OOT was harder than it appears because it required the player to think in three dimensions which they simply weren't used to. it's really only TP+ that have no excuse.

Zelda games are more adventure games than puzzle games anyway. A bigger issue is the combat being so easy.

stop samefagging zoomertard

that's every game that isn't open world weeb

>Zelda games are more adventure games than puzzle games anyway.

Puzzle-solving is such an enormous part of nearly every Zelda game that you must be new to this series to even think about arguing otherwise.

>The great part about Zelda dungeons was it gave you a new tool with set rules, and tried to create a dungeon that pushed you to discover the limits of what you could do with the new tool
Except that wasn't true and they were all basic as fuck, the Divine Beasts are way better designed. In no way are physics puzzles with multiple solutions somehow "boring" compared to "find the eye and shoot it" 3D Zelda puzzles. Face it you're a nostalgic zoomer

People have higher expectations these days.As a result it takes more effort to create content now.
So you end up with smaller amounts of unique content and greater amounts of content that looks the same. (Shrines, Korok Seeds, Drugrs, etc)

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>oh no, multiple people agree with that poster
>quick better call him a samefag

Every time

Mostly in the games that came after ALttP, and even then it didn't become a big focus until the 3D games.

The puzzles aren't important brainlet, they are just part of the adventure, zelda isn't trying to be spacechem. It's also why the isolated shrines clash with the tone of the game. puzzles are for worldbuilding in shrines and giving variety, and most puzzles are more akin to secrets.

Game dev tools are better, but making AAA games requires more man hours of actual labor.

Maybe you should take a reading comprehension class, come back to this thread when it's archived, and understand that this whole shitflinging war started with salty nostalfiags desperately trying to dogpile someone who praised BotW in this thread and failing miserably like they do every time.

>puzzles are for worldbuilding
what the fuck am I reading

3D zelda fans are straight brainlets

this, tools tend to impart their own signature on whatever content is made with them. So the more content needed, the more they'll rely on tools to help create it

Fallout 3 was the first open world RPG I ever played and it was so impressive to me that I later played Oblivion and Skyrim. Sad that Bethesda has barely progressed in game design at all since then. They just keep getting shittier and shittier.

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I like the open world of Piranha Byte games.

>go anywhere
>do anything
Seems open world to me, gatekeeper

Uncharted Waters Aka Daikoukia Jidai series

Pic related is one from 1988.

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You have to give them credit for the Settlement system in fallout 4. Even if it was kind of awkward its objectively a whole new thing you couldn't do in previous games

The left is missing one. Being designed with streamers in mind, one of the absolute worst things to ever happen to vidya.

>Mostly in the games that came after ALttP

No. ALTTP and LA both had a fucking huge emphasis on puzzles. In LA's case, the entire overworld was practically a giant puzzle labyrinth.

>The puzzles aren't important brainlet, they are just part of the adventure

They are important and they are a part of the adventure. These aren't mutually exclusive. They were important in ALTTP's isolated caves and dungeons and have been important in every single game since.

>what the fuck am I reading
that puzzles are for worldbuilding. Zelda is an adventure series, it's lacked mechanical depth ever since it left the nes. You are too dumb to notice this. zelda has always banked on it's aesthetics, on the cultural zeitgeist of being a zelda game than it's content. it's why the games aren't very replayable, there is nothing to master.

FFXIV

>non-linear is the same as open world
lol zoomers

>puzzles are for worldbuilding

You're a special kind of retard.

BTFO

Landscape is content

I agree that most Zelda games between the NES games and ALBW aren't very good. But how on God's green earth do the puzzles function as "worldbuilding"?

I don't think he knows what that word means. Ironic since he's been throwing around the term "brainlet" since early on in the thread.

Hub world style open world > everything else

they make the dungeons feel like tests for the hero that he can competently solve. it's a classic adventure trope. The puzzles in zelda were never meant to be actual puzzles, just to make you hardly feel mildly present when you spend 5 seconds to solve them. The actual rewarding or "fun" part is just the adventure itself, progressing though the game and seeing what comes next. zelda never took it's puzzles seriously and it shouldn't. again the issue is the combat is braindead. the puzzles should be fairly simple, they are to offer variety, not mess with the pacing by making you actually solve them (in a children's game no less)

you're a bad samefag

Fuck off todd

Hey look one of the screeching insecure botw fans I was talking about.

>Yea Forums used to hate food analogy
>now Yea Forums love it
God I fucking hate fucking upboat so fucking much

Mario 64 is now open world. And Banjo Kazooie. And Half-Life.

Open world before the mid 2000s was like having a 100km2 pizza with the same piece of stale pepperoni replicated again and again and again.

ALBW is shit btw redditor sissyfag. Why do all you nintenbabies have the same pre-cum baby writing style? who the fuck says "on gods green earth" sincerely. stop exposing yourself so blatantly your faggot ass prose has ruined bait posting for everyone.

>before the mid 2000s
and today. Look at Fallout 4 and BOTW.

>The puzzles in zelda were never meant to be actual puzzles, just to make you hardly feel mildly present when you spend 5 seconds to solve them

This laughable attempt at mental gymnastics to defend the shitty old puzzles is almost admirable, or at least it would have been if you didn't forget the fact that there have been some cleverly designed puzzles in a lot of the 2D titles.

Oh wait, but of course you didn't "forget". You just never played them.

I've always felt applying a narrative term like "pacing" to a game doesn't make any sense. The narrative in game is your own journey, and your own difficulties and solutions along the way. Getting stuck on the Darknut rooms in Zelda 1 isn't "affecting the pacing", it's a difficulty the player has to overcome himself

Excusing bad puzzles because "you can do them quickly and it aesthetically makes you feel like you're on an adventure" is pretty lame t b h

It used to be even more extreme. I'm talking about shit like Daggerfall. The worlds in the two games you listed were at least designed by a human at a computer even if the gameplay's shallow.

>The worlds in the two games you listed were at least designed by a human
More likely a lot of it was generated by terrain tools.

Far cry 4 busy work is retarded tho

>ALBW is shit btw redditor sissyfag
How is it
>who the fuck says "on gods green earth" sincerely
Me. Glad it makes you mad
>stop exposing yourself so blatantly your faggot ass prose has ruined bait posting for everyone.
Why would I give a shit what losers like you thought of me lmao shut up

>if you didn't forget the fact that there have been some cleverly designed puzzles in a lot of the 2D titles.

you're fucking dumb dude. The cleverness doesn't mean they are challenging, they are meant to look novel to hold your interest. Did you get stuck on fucking zelda puzzles? Did you seriously have to stop and think? Imagine liking zelda for the gameplay unironically. i bet you think the appeal of the simpsons is that it was actually a funny show. Thank God even the hacks at nintendo aren't this stupid.

Some of the fields in between yeah, but those kind of open worlds are filler with plenty of hand-designed set pieces every few meters. You can leave one, turn the camera and see another in the distance, they're closely packed together and it's how modern open worlds are fundamentally designed. In Daggerfall you might need to wander for 10-15 minutes in a direction before you hit anything other than grass. Almost every town was identical, with procedurally generated characters that give you procedurally generated quests to go deliver a procedurally generated message to another procedurally generated guy. The dungeons were generated, the loot was generated, almost everything in the world was generated. People excuse it because it's "retro".

I do like Zelda for the gameplay. The good games, anyway (Zelda 1, 2, ALBW and BotW)

>I've always felt applying a narrative term like "pacing" to a game doesn't make any sense.
because you're a casual that doesn't know what pacing means. Games can have shit pacing without any roadblocks.

>Imagine liking zelda for the gameplay unironically.

Jesus Christ, man. Go to bed.

I grew up with the original Zelda and it's still one of my favorite games to replay. BotW is incredibly mediocre and nothing like the original NES game. That game actually rewarded you for exploring, had dungeons, items, and progression. The people who keep saying BotW is a return to the form of the original are fucking morons who never played the original.

Explain "pacing" to me then

>That game actually rewarded you for exploring, had dungeons, items, and progression.
So did BotW.

>How is it
literal rehash of LTTP. fails as a remake and fails as a spiritual successor. It goes way past homages, the entire game is already solved to anyone who played it's far superior predecessor. it's also ugly as fuck. You are either a zoomer who never played alttp or a brainlet who thinks the puzzles were actual puzzles and not neat gimmicks like in every zelda game.

you people bitch about a game like witcher 3 not having enough content. You wouldn't be satisfied unless you had over a thousand hours of very unique and varied content, you have very unrealistic expectations of what a game can and should aim to achieve. Every other game discussion on this board is about cut content, as if any project doesn't eventually have to cut down on its ambitions.

>this confuses and enrages the casual brainlet
There is a reason zelda is so popular with woman who don't play games user. it plays itself.

>had dungeons

Literally nothing but recolored combat rooms. BotW already has that and it's a million times better.

My bad, gives you good rewards. Shrines and Korok seeds are shit and durability makes any weapon you get pointless. But hey, you can play dress up!

Wanna know how I know you didn't grow up with the original Zelda?

Never played ALTTP but I've seen videos of it and ALBW's similarities seem mainly in the overworld and story, which isn't really what is good about it. A lot of what makes ALBW good is in how the game creates a fluid multi-level 3D space and the player immediately understands and navigates it, I don't think ALttP really had that. Looks like a good game though for different reasons

Shrines are good other than the combat trial copy and pastes, never understood the hate other than the repeated aesthetic

>Never played ALTTP
stopped reading there
fuck off kid

Go ahead and tell me what you think you know about me from your phone.

most shrines are solved in pretty much the same way due to how limited you are with your items. botw falls apart and gets worse the more you play.

He might have, but he's too stupid to notice any aspect of game design and can only parrot marketing memes.

>most shrines are solved in pretty much the same way
Never experienced this. Examples?

>Trying out an "Open World" game
>It has a teleport / quick travel system
Instantly dropped, refunded, deleted from harddrive

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I've completed Zelda 1 and 2, just never got around to that one. More of an NES guy than an SNES guy t b h

watch the anderson video, he goes though every one. There is really only a handful of decent shrines.

who's forcing you to use it ? what are good open worlds game in your opinion

I think I saw that one. When he made the point that "look, you can complete this puzzle without doing it as it was seemingly intended", I had serious doubts about his critical faculties.

You thinking the dungeons aren't even more barebones than Divine Beasts, that its dungeon items aren't mostly already available in BotW, or that its reward system isn't vastly inferior to BotW's is reason enough to discard any claim you have to growing up with LoZ. You most likely started with the 3D games.

because you had an emotional investment in the game and willfully misunderstood what he was saying/the intent.

Any person that has enjoyed any game nintendo has developed in at least the last 10 years has a two digit IQ.

Explain what I'm missing, then. I do like good reviews and I will happily point out the flaws in BotW, it's not perfect by any means (repetitive and lame korok "puzzles", shit story, repetitive shrine aesthetic, final boss is trash, etc. you're actively deterred from fighting enemies later on, etc.)

Most people actually idolize older games that arguably were much smaller in scope, yet more rich

What does any of that have to do with anything? Dude said BotW is just like LoZ. It's not. They're nothing alike. That was the point. How does pointing out the differences between the two games to me mean I'm lying about playing the original game as a kid? How about you stop trying to own someone and actually think about what you are saying.

I'd actually say the opposite
Nintendo were really good in the 80s, quite good in the 90s, really bad in the 2000's and good again in the 2010's (particularly in the second half of this decade)

yes hail to the Based and Blackpilled Miyazaki

More like... um, yeah. Umm, more like Un-UnSHARTed Waters, right?

I have played witcher 2 right before witcher 3, you can't compare the scope of these two games. It's day and night. The first witcher game has always had very divided reception so let's not pretend it's an amazing game 10 years after the fact, witcher 2 was praised for its graphics above all

nigga, they all are bad

If your intent was only to put forth the absurd notion of "Zelda 1 is so rudimentary and bereft of meaningful content due to being an old game that it's nothing like BotW", which of course it is now that you realize I was right about you having not grown up with it, then it's not even a compelling point. People obviously compare these two games on design philosophy, which BotW is obviously and very blatantly inspired by if you're not an utter retard incapable of rubbing two brain cells together. Oh, and the devs confirmed it.

actually, there are 16 types of Korok puzzles those being, Acorn, Block, Ball and Chain, Boulder (Hole), Boulder (Goal) Flower Trail, Lilly Circle, Fruit Trees, Ice, Moving Sparks, Offering, Petroglyph, Pinwheel/Target Shoot, Rock (Single) Rock Throw (Rock Circle), Tree Stump, you can miss alot of these which is why there are so many.

source: au.ign.com/wikis/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/Korok_Seed_Locations#Korok_Seed_Puzzle_Types

Gothic 1 and 2. You're welcome.

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Emptiness took over everything...
Except for BOTW and RDR2, those two games, you can do literally anything.

If you don't like open world games? What kind do you like then?

ANYTHING YOU CAN SEE YOU CAN CLIMB YOU CAN FISH YOU CAN MAKE A SOUP EVERYTHING IS IN THIS GAME THE GAMEPLAY WHO CARES BUT THERE IS A LOT OF TREES

This. Korok puzzles only feel agonizingly samey if you're actively trying to complete them. There are enough types that you'll be cycling through different kinds fairly often.

Honestly, I prefer Red Dead Redemption 2. Fantasy can be fun, but grounded realism with a story that is beyond great is something I'm looking for. Not to mention the best visuals I have ever seen in an open world game, period.

Nipples lmao
Boob

It was bad lazy rushed game design and the vidya industry shifting to streaming freemium shit that ruined sp and mp open word vidya.

Gta 6 is gonna be garbage if Rdr2 is anything to go by same with elder scrolls 6 and cp2077

>smoothing filter

Do you realize Daggerfall is the only game that does this?

>Mostly countryside

Dude there's like four cities right there and some small towns. That's more content than GTAV. It's not ideal but it's eons better than the crap that is GTAV.

>Gothic 1 and 2
You know what's up, senpai

Gothic 1 and 2
Morrowind
Oblivion
GTA 3, VC, 4, SA
Spider-Man 2
Ultimate Spider-Man
Fallout New Vegas
Scarface the World is Yours
Does Darklands count? I think it counts...maybe

For post 2010s I'd say KCD gets it pretty close (too bad it's based on a super rural area of Bohemia). MGSV could've been better if the actual big base areas had more content inside and had underground areas.

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3d of yesteryear compared to today, 3d is easier with all the well documented engines and tools specifically geared for gaming. New tech makes space limitations and having to conserve resources a thing of the past and allows for inefficient programming.

About the only con in all of this is gaming is more expensive than ever due to the $60 cap yet expecting/needing every game to be a million seller.

San Andreas was quite genuinely the only amazing open world game in history. Its map is so tiny and yet it feels bigger than maps like GTA V or Skyrim because there's so many interesting things to look at and interact with. You can go from the ghetto, to downtown LA, to downtown SanFran, to Las Vegas, to area 51 and every land biome each one has inbetween with a countryside full of trailer parks, dirt biking, monster trucking, triatholons, beaches, you could go inside restaurants and order food, go inside different types of clothing, tattoo, barber shops each with their unique NPC and dialogue, race, swim and dive, go to school, get a girlfriend and go on dates, gamble at a casino, get in debt and have a mob boss send goons after you, fly to another game, explore the depths of area 51, explore a jet carrier ship, rob houses, nigger I can go on for another couple of minutes. No other RPG in history comes close to this, none.

Companies need to focus first on good gameplay, then second on performance. Making fake E3 demos and trailers or modelling every wrinkle on a ballsack is pointless when you can just make then show a good game instead.

>properly add some underground and water biomes you can explore
Im thinking this will be the main thrust of the sequel, theres only so much they can change to the topography of Hyrule from the first game so having small caves (or even a big interconnected labyrinth underground) and some grottos at the bottom of some pools will add a lot to spelunk down.

Just saw a recent vid where some player managed to clip under a pier in the south eastern town and could view the full reef underwater without the water effect, looked fairly detailed.

economic optimization

asscreed

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its a combination of two factors.

1.Rising development costs and stricter deadlines have rendered making a well fleshed out, content filled open world unfeasible for anyone but the biggest developers.
2. The games industry has created a generation of retard kids who feel like a game has to be open world to be fun.

it's like pottery

>All they do is fill the game with empty fetch quests we have seen a million times
just like real life

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The original Legend of Zelda (1986) did open-world too, and arguably better than BoTW.

it was golden

best reply so far. Spider-Man 2 was pretty awesome.

>DnD
Not when you're railroaded into killing everything by the unga bunga paladin that can't do anything except smack shit with his hammer.

If you want only linear experiences then wouldn't films and books be more to your taste?

>hey, lets take the same 5 sidequests and copy paste them 200 times
I dont understand the love for open world games

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>hurr i'll just use the tranq gun every time
>lol where's all the content???

People that throw crusts away are not human