What exactly is a Metroidvania?

Metroidvania's a stupid fuckin term, can't stand it. They should be called "Labyrinth Platformers".

>omg it’s a different colored door
>omg I could totally jump up there if I could jump higher
>omg I wish I could swing across that pit
>oh well I’ll just keep going in the obvious linear progression I need to until I get an item that will put me on a new linear path where I spam that one
Kino best genre besides roguelike Metacritic 90+ because it makes the journalists feel smart

a castlevania game with metroid in the genre title for no reason at all

Wikipedia defines it pretty well.

Not really, Zelda 2 sidescrolling sections work more like a pure action game.

That's the problem right there, man. You got games that are still stuck in 1997 followin SotN and Super Metroid's examples. We need freedom to move around when playin these, we don't need roadblocks, just tougher enemies and platforming challenges that are more advanced, enough to scare away a beginner but a fun challenge for more advanced players and speedrunners. But we're still dealin with stupid shit where a game goes "Nah bro, gotta have the deluxe squeaky boots to get up here".

more like an open world 2D platformer

Nah, but if they were side scrolling platformers, they would be

>shit 2D genre
>chad FromSoft makes the best metroidvania of all time and it’s just the first half of a game that popularized a genre named after itself

no its just a metroid

Have you ever played Metroid? Have you ever played Castlevania? It's like that.

seething

The NES one is one of the kino games like Dark Souls that should be what we refer to when we call something open world but instead open world just means sandbox with nothing to do for long stretches

Metroid:
>one big, non-linear map
>freedom to explore backtrack

Vania:
>RPG mechanics (level, stats, inventory, loot)
>NPCs
>gothic/fantasy aesthetic

wrong, it should be called "2D exploration game", everything else is optional.

>being this wrong
The vania comes from the fact that there’s a whole half of the Castlevania series that works like
Metroid does you dunce

strawpoll.me/18237868

Hate the term, because mainly its a "metroid" game, they added the "vania" after symphony of the night because of the RPG elements only

Metroid was action platformer with getting upgrades and backtracking (this is what they call metroidvania nowdays)

Castlevania games were just action platformers

Metroid clone. It's a stupid phrase, but it is what it is.

Non-linear adventure game
its a shit title for shit games

A platformer where you access new stages by obtaining permanent power ups to access previously inaccessible areas.

Portrait of Ruin

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I will admit I’m bummed I wasted money on Steamworld Dig 2 and Dead Cells because journalists found them Le fascinating yes. Instead of calling things metroidvania and leaving it at that, standards should be built around world design - how satisfying is it to find a new route? Is the game going to make me feel like I did when I unlocked a door coming from Lower Undead Burg and found myself back in Firelink tunnel? Or taking that elevator up and being back in the Chaos Daughter’s chamber? Or is it going to just hand me a new laser and I can run back for 45 minutes to the place with the matching color to progress?

a conjunction between metroid and castlevania

>Shit game
>Posts Mario
lol

Super Metroid is the daddy of all those other options lmao, theres no contest, but zoomers will click hollow knight because they dont know shit

Speaking of, without doing Kaizo autism, is there a fun challenging platformer that I can check out? I like the DKC games and don’t consider Cuphead a platformer

I enjoyed steamworld dig 2 quite a lot but I will agree it's not necessary closer to the Metroidvania genre than some other genres.
Dead Cells I can also agree with, considering it only shares a few very specific elements from classic Metroidvanias.
But goddamnit is it fucking fun. The combat is nutworthy and fast paced.

Super Metroid backtracking is miserable. The Metroid series as a whole sucks at pacing. But so do a lot of the Castlevania games.

Celeste.

The origins of the open world genre

assuming you played DKCR and DKCTF, if not, do

If you have high frustration tolerance (not quite kaizo), Wings of Vi is really good

I didn’t hate Steamworld or Dead Cells but when I hear Metroidvania I want to have wow moments when I get to know the map better. Steamworld in particular was miserable because it felt like there were just individual levels that were a bit tricky to explore sometimes. The world didn’t connect in any significant way. I like Dead Cells combat too but I was overall pretty meh on the game.

So how is this?

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I don't think the problem is necessarily backtracking. That can be shit, but I think it more stems around the rewards you get for backtracking. It can be cool to backtrack and find a whole new hidden area/boss, but it sucks when you go back and it's just a standard upgrade or a regular item or the plot mcguffin#238 you needed to assemble.

short

shit

Action-adventure platformers based around exploring using keys, with those keys not only being used to unlock doors, having various applications in the game's world

Oh yeah Celeste was good. I should go back and put more effort into finding optional collectibles and doing b-sides and shit.
I have and adore them. TF might be the best platformer I’ve ever played. I’ll check out Wings of Vi

Hollow Knight is a great game, but I hated the aesthetics of just about every area. Everything felt like some variation of "dark gray area." If we could get an HK game with the aesthetics and variety of SotN, it would be an 11/10 game.

I didn't know you could level up and buy stuff in Metroid.

>Metroidvania

It's like a shoot em up but more boring and with backtracking.

Returns and TF are both massive downgrades from 2 and 3 with inferior level design, music, and a lack of basic features that made 2 and 3 good, like not having copy pasted bonus rooms.

Exploration focused platformer in which you get to new areas by finding items that let you traverse the map in new ways.

Dead Cells is not a metroidvania.

They Bleed Pixels

>Non-linear platforming that lets you explore while keeping you on track of where have you been
>Focus on melee combat with possible ranged options if needed
>Gating content behind powerups and certain abilites you learn and/or buy throughout the game
>plenty of movement options that lets you unwind and think outside the box, possible speedrunning strats if you will.
>RPG mechanics are optional.

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>The vania comes from the fact that there’s a whole half of the Castlevania series that works like Metroid does you dunce
Except the term was coined as soon as SotN came out at which point it was the only Castlevania that works like that.

>not having copy pasted bonus rooms
this is the only valid part of your post

OG DKC was built around not being able to see where the fuck you're going and suffers massively from it

Returns and TF have absolutely magical level design that only becomes more apparent when you get shiny gold medals during the speedruns. Everything is meticulously placed to allow you to go as fast as your reactions allow.

try harder

The b sides, along with their music, is the best part of Celeste

>inferior level design and music
Imagine being this retarded.

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>TF worse level design and music than 3

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>OG DKC was built around not being able to see where the fuck you're going and suffers massively from it
Literally the only part this is a problem at all is the mine cart sections in 1, and the mine cart sections in R and TF are utterly braindead and impossible to fail instead.
>Returns and TF have absolutely magical level design that only becomes more apparent when you get shiny gold medals during the speedruns. Everything is meticulously placed to allow you to go as fast as your reactions allow.
That's a funny way to say it's overly open and broad and thus poses no challenge whatsoever. Especially when TF throws extra lives at you like they're bananas.

This is a question I've thought about for a while. "What is the difference between Zelda games and Metroidvanias?"

I think the one defining difference between them is not the perspective. In almost every Zelda game, you can do everything and obtain everything in a dungeon after you obtain the dungeon's special item. There's never a need to revisit a dungeon unless you missed something the first time, and the dungeons themselves don't connect to each other.

Metroidvanias, on the other hand, tend to have items that are used in earlier areas to find upgrades and new areas. And all of the areas tend to be interconnected so they form one massive map.

TF's soundtrack is ruined by the horrible choice of using that shrill woodwind in half the songs. A simple change of instrument could've made it great. The level design is absolutely a downgrade as it was where 3 excelled. 3 is unfairly hated because of Kiddy and the lack of David Wise.

You suck and your definition should be buried in the desert alongside you and an iPhone with low battery.

So would a more linear game like Metroid Fusion not actually fit into the genre?

Sidescrolling Action Adventure Game, With A Focus On Satisfying Exploration And Progression

>ruined by the horrible choice of using that shrill woodwind
Literally no one else is bothered by this. Try harder.

I don't like the gimmick levels in 3

>This is a question I've thought about for a while. "What is the difference between Zelda games and Metroidvanias?"
Zelda gives you items, Metroid gives you powers. This is a key difference that fundamentally distinguishes the games in how they're designed and how they're played. Zelda fills up your inventory with items that you equip and use on specific obstacles when you find those obstacles and Zelda's items are generally pretty worthless when not being used to deal with those obstacles. The lamp in LTTP for example has a handful of rooms to use it in and is practically useless otherwise. Metroid on the other hand gives you powers that stay with the character from when you get them and provide dual purposes of improving your combat ability and opening up new paths. The wave beam in Super Metroid doesn't just deal additional damage to enemies, it also allows you to open up gates from the other side. The space jump doesn't just grant access to new areas, it also makes travelling the game world easier all around.
Essentially Zelda gives you glorified keys for glorified locks while Metroid (and metroidvanias in general, although many also suffer from glorified keys) gives you powers that strengthen the player character and change how you play from moment to moment.

Bloodstained RotN or Super Metroid easily

can someone explain to me the appeal of this genre? i unironically do not see the joy in running into walls for an hour hitting random blocks until you finally find a way to go. then when you die you lose all your progress if you didn't get to a save room that you have no idea of its location. not to mention the fact that when you finally do get some stuff to get through dead ends it's on the other side of the map so you gotta walk all the way back to get it.

We were born too late to explore the world and born too early to explore space.

A metroidvania is like zelda if zelda was just one big dungeon with many items instead of just one per dungeon.

A Castlevania game that is Metroid-like
What most retards call Metroidvania is actually just Metroid-likes, as the 'vania' part was only there because Castlevania ended up having a shitton of Metroid-like games and it was easier to call that part of the series Metroidvania, as they coexisted alongside the 3DS CV games.

>Castlevania
>RPG mechanics
You never played the classic games
>NPCs
Literally just Simon's Quest

>What exactly is a Metroidvania?
A shitty genre.

A good metroidvania doesn't have every path hidden behind blocks with no indication of how to get past them, doesn't have unmarked save rooms, and has fast travel or at least a decently designed map to minimise travel time. So stop playing bad games.

The genre is referred to as metroidvania because SotN had a bunch of original elements of its own that weren't in Metroid, and other games took from SotN as well.

The difference between Metroid and Zelda is in how each game frames goals and progression.

In Zelda, you're always working towards a short-term goal. Find the dungeon. Beat the dungeon. Do a side-quest. Find the next dungeon. Beat that dungeon, repeat.

In Metroid, you generally have one single over-arching goal, but your minute-by-minute gameplay isn't necessarily governed by it. You don't know where to go next, you only know where you've been, where you haven't been, and what you have, and you're rewarded for appropriately parsing that information.
The big exceptions to these rules being Metroid Fusion, in which you ARE explicitly told where to go from minute to minute, and Zelda 1 and Breath of the Wild, where you're not

The dungeon aspect no, but the overworld yes since the items act as a means of traversal and the ability to find additional secrets.

God damn, what trash games have you been playing. No wonder you hate the genre. Though it's true the only one of those points that is often in the better examples of the genre is not knowing where the next save room is. It's usually pretty easy to guess it's location though, or they might give hints/signs to lead you in the right direction.

A maze game.

that's correct, and it shouldn't be that surprising. A lot of metroid fans don't like fusion for that very reason.

>As they coexisted alongside the 3DS CV games
>3DS

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you lost me at fast travel. fast travel is a band-aid bad devs use when they realize they can't make a world that's fun enough to traverse. It's only acceptable as an ultra lategame item and even then it's questionable.

Silksong then

Meant to say 3D. As in the 3D games for N64, PS2 and later PS3

Hollow Knight is a Zeltorid. Also castlevania 1 is a way better game than the metroidvania ones

What the FUCK is a roguelike

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Procedurally generated adventure game with no extra lives wasn't as popular a genre name.

No, it became coined as soon as there was several game similar to SoTN like AoS and CoM. Back when SoTN was released, it was simply called a Castlevania that's very similar to Metroid. When more of Igavanias were starting to be released, that's when the term was coined.

A game that is like Rogue.

yeah, those horrible games from bad devs like pokemon, zelda, and symphony of the night

Why not just call it adventure?
"Procedurally generated" isnt a genre so no need to mention that in the name
Also, what's the difference with roguelite?

alright, i'll admit it. I didn't fully think before i spoke. those are all fine examples of games with fast travel that aren't harmed by it.

because zelda and tomb raider are adventure games, and neither are roguelikes?
are you retarded?

I’ve always called them Castletroids.

>Especially when TF throws extra lives at you like they're bananas.
And you will be burning them at the same rate once you get to end and postgame levels

are really dumb sounding genre name
metroidvania sounds equally dumb

Play momodora: reverie under the moonlight.

Procedurally generated is literally the whole reason the "genre" exists. it would be stupid to not include it in the name. and there is no difference between roguelike and roguelite all that is is a resistance to the genre widening as more devs make games that vaguely fit into it. It's like the difference between a metroid clone and metroidvania, they exist, but most people who use the terms are not sufficiently familiar with the subject to tell the difference.

That's like saying Golf 2019 and Rocket League are sports games but because they dont play similarly, they need new genre names? It's not necessary

Some people think permadeath and etc is necessary to be a roguelike

because so many games use roguelike mechanics these days the term was coined for games that use roguelike mechanics but are not a roguelike at all

sports game isn't really a very good genre name either though. there's a world of difference between golf, basketball, and football that could easily separate the games into three distinct genres.

>That's like saying Golf 2019 and Rocket League are sports games but because they dont play similarly, they need new genre names?
yes?
>oh yeah I love sports game
>oh you mean like rocket leagu--
>huh, no I meant fifa

>It's not necessary
nothing is necesarry, video games aren't necessary, electricity isn't necessary

and sadly enough it looks like a good half of your brain isn't necessary either, must've been turned off at some point

This is literally the best metroidvania game ever created. Short and sweet. Amazing OST. I cannot wait to get the Switch LE.

That's kinda the point of a genre though. If almost anything had its own genre, it wouldn't be very useful.

What are you even trying to say with your retarded example?

Some people just like wandering around listening to the background music and enjoiying the atmosphere without worrying about timers or stuffs. Going back and storming shit that give you trouble before can be cool. Same a following a shady trail that connects to old parts of the map and can be used as shortcut

I think you mean a metroid game with vania added for no reason. SOTN added nothing significant to the formula that defines the genre.

that nothing is necessary and your 'this isn't necessary' is fucking meaningless, brainlet
we gave different genres different names because it facilitates discussion, why do I even have to explain something so logical to anyone?
are you human?

The more I think about it, Metroidvanias are just Metroid games with something that isn't metroid-like, e.g. close combat instead of bullets.
SotN was the first to make it a genre then everyone started calling it metroidvania

Also the map

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>run around in a maze
>find powerups that let you explore more of the maze

>having a vidya discussion
>suddenly some loud retard comes in shouting "NOTHING IS NECESSARY, LIFE IS UNNECESSARY, THE UNIVERSE UNNECESSARY"
Where are you going with this? What're you trying to prove, here?
You're like some pseudo-intellectual dipshit trying to do nihilism for the first time

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The backtracking in sotn is the worst.

I hope you're merely pretending at this point, else I'd be worried about your future

or not really, have a good one faggot lmao

Also, I dont see the problem with somebody thinking RL when I meant FIFA.
Genre doesn't need to be the end all be all description of everything in a game, shit for brains

Thats why calling it a metroidlike is enough. Or you could follow the Japanese example and just call it an "exploration game."
>B-B-B-BUT THATS TOO BROAD
So is "fighting," "strategy," "action-adventure," "roleplaying." Almost every game entails these things in the literal sense, but in the context of genre names they indicate specific mechanics and content structures. Just like "exploration."

"Metroidvania" is a completely america centric term, too.

games like Wonder Boy 3 had metroidvania elements before SOTN even existed, the game just wasn't popular in America

The game also starts with you fighting the Meka Dragon from the end of the last game, similar to Dracula, and gaining animal abilities to traverse with, so the game is clearly inspired

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I get bored with these games. Never finished guacamelee or axiom verge. Playing hollow knight now.

>Super Metroid backtracking is miserable
Not really, if you're willing to utilize a couple of tricks the backtracking is almost nonexistent.

It really is. Castlevania Symphony of the Night was just Metroid with RPG elements. I don't know why it gets half the billing in the genre especially when you have games like Hollow Knight which have no RPG elements. People are just lazy and/or dumb and cant be bothered to do anything but regurgitate things others say. You can't expect a human to do a bit of thinking. Not me though. That;s why I consider myself godlike because I am above people who use terms like metroidvania.

absolute brainlet, really
if you do not add rules to a definition, then the definition becomes meaningless and you're back at the start of the issue

if a game does not fit a definition, then it does not fit the definition and should not be called and designated as such, it is not up to the definition to adapt, it is precisely why we have rogue likes, and rogue lites, because the rogue lite games did not fit the rogue like definition, yet resembled the genre enough to warrant a similar name

do you faggots not have basic english courses where you live or something?
how come an ESL HS dropout understands english rules better than you?

You're not wrong, but you're going off on a tangent. This isn't "where did the term come from" it's "what is a Metroidvania" which is exactly what he said: An expansion of a Metroid-like with RPG mechanics and such.

>SMchads are winning
As it should be.

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MonsterVania is a fucking way better term desu but it does away with Metroid in the name

That's the whole point of a genre, though. To encompass a wide variety of titles, grouping them together under a general, vague theme such as "adventure", "puzzle".
If you had very precise genres, you would end up with thousands of them, most of which would be useless, meaningless terms

>ESL HS dropout
No surprise there

>Portrait of Ruin
Glitchy, cringe, and unaesthetic.

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The similarities between Metroid and Iga Castlevania design.

-Sidescrolling/platformer
-Often a Big map
-World is often "open" for exploration and opens up with upgrades and items
-Usually different sectors of the world with their distinct themes than a stage-by-stage basis
-Set requirements for progression and endgame
-Focus on mobility through said world

It's more or less a bunch of flavors you can add to the design of your game

I don't see the actual best option user, I think your link is broken

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So zelda 2

I like Valdis but it's definitely a flawed gem.

>OOE Poster
shanoa and basedpilled

OoE's map design was nice and concise and varied. Games should learn more from it than make fuckhuge maps everywhere.

Zelda 2 temples were essentially metroid areas.

Agree. I bought the ps4 limited run collector's shit even though I already 100%'d the steam version, it's so fuckin good. Not as excited for their new game though, it seems like it lacks a lot of the charm.

I 100%'d the Xbox version. Bought the LRG physical w/OST for PS4 which I also 100%'d and just waiting for the Switch LE to do the same. I'm pretty hopeful for Minoria. It definitely looks and has a different tone compared to Momo, but I'm going to give it the benefit.

Then explain Shadow Complex?

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Any game that plays like SotN. A 2D action RPG that plays like Metroid, with a freely traversible big map with lots of item gates and backtracking.

If it doesn't have RPG elements, it's a Metroid clone. The -vania bit is everything SotN brought to the formula.

The subgenre should be called Pitroid really. Pitfall II is the daddy, Metroid is the Mommy.

Daily reminder that HK isn't a metroidvania or a metroid-like. It's a 2d open world game.

I wish open world in the west referred to stuff like HK and DS, but when someone at From said Elden Ring will be “open world” in this sense, a bunch of retards decided it would be Ubi/Rockstar style Soulslike. Metroidvania is the least inaccurate way to describe it, but I agree with you that we should rethink what we call open world vs open world sandbox (a term that seems to have gone away as western devs have invested more money into broad cinematic storylines despite the fact that the core gameplay loop is the same as Bully and GTA).

>HK and SM destroying Sotn and Rotn
So good.

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Dustforce

You can sequence break a little bit in Bloodstained with kung fu shoes.

A roguelike is a game like Rogue. Nethack, et al.

Yes, Metroid Prime is a metroidvania
Everyone who says about it being sidescrolling is a hack

This, the term metroidvania was coined to describe the castlevania games post SotN that played like metroid games, not because of RPG elements or anything else. Then, years later, people who had heard the term and didn't understand what it meant started using it to describe other games that were also like metroid.

Okay tards. These past few days there's been nonstop falseflagging and baiting around Bloodstained and Hollow Knight. Since we're already talking about those two games then let's use this opportunity to finally take back the original meaning of the word metroidvania. So let's get this straight:

Bloodstained IS a Metroidvania.
Hollow Knight IS NOT a Metroidvania.

Symphony of the Night is the original game that birthed that autistic fucking term in the first place so let's use that as a baseline. What the fuck is SotN's main difference from Super Metroid? An expansive RPG system specifically revolving around a wide breadth of customization when it comes to both weapons, spells, and all manners of other mechanics, an idea expanded upon by Iga in every future Castlevania with it's most autistic iteration yet in Bloodstained. Metroidvanias then predominantly referred to the games released during that era with the word Classicvania referring to the original linear Castlevania experiences.

Hollow Knight is limited to one weapon, a few spells, and charms that slightly augment your playstyle but at the end of the day it always revolves around your one simple weapon. All it's other characteristics from extremely non-linear level design, standard power-up gating, exploration-focused gameplay and all that shit hearkens back to the philosophies Super Metroid and to some extent Zelda popularized. So what's a Metroidvania that has all Metroid but no vania? A Metroid-like. Most "Metroidvania" games that come out in this day and age are all fucking Metroid-likes. Hollow Knight in particular is a combat-heavy Metroid-like. Nothing more; nothing less.

To see the difference between a Metroidvania and a Metroid-like, you only need to see the differences between Bloodstained and Hollow Knight. Possibly the most quintessential examples of their respective genres.

tl;dr FUCK LANGUAGE, FUCK MEANINGS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FUCK TRANNIES

This game was good but has zero polish and desperately needed more content

Is this copy pasta because it needs work, TLDR/10

A side-scrolling, exploration focused action platformer

I feel as though a lot of people forgot that game even existed, which is a shame because it's great.