Why is crunch becoming such a hot topic currently? Boo fucking hoo...

>coal miners
it's a good thing the few remaining ones will be unemployed soon

why should anyone care that a bunch of codemonkies had to work some overtime

>BUT WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE IN AFRICA?! YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE IN WORSE SITUATIONS!

Yeah, I've noticed this and "leak" culture have been pushed really hard in the past year. My one progressive faggot friend actually said he was boycotting RDR2 due to the whole crunch thing and I asked why he even had consumer electronics like an Xbox given Foxconn's record and he told me it was ok for companies to exploit uneducated people. I pointed out that Foxconn actually made college students work to be awarded the degree and he was just kind of silent. They just severely over estimate the value of code monkeys / digital artists and want to virtue signal without having to give up their toys.

Faggot

except this isnt africa. These people live in the same communities. Nice strawman

As you wish

Crunch wouldn't happen if people finished their tasks faster.

yeah; dairy queen's blizzards would be nothing without it

It's not worth the damage it does to people. Coal mining is mechanized, do you actually believe they still send in guys with mining picks like in the middle ages. Anybody under bad working conditions only endures them because there's no other choice, not because they don't mind. You're an idiot.

>blizzard is working hard guys

Well it doesn't fucking show

no job should be more demanding than it needs to be and people who put up with it are part of the problem

Youre an absolute fucking retard. One of the big things is unpaid overtime. And if you don't suck Mr Scheklestien sometihng good, and do all the unpaid cuck work, well look who just got cut for poor performance?
Then when you get into the next gig its the same song and dance.

>developers used to get to spend years dicking around doing dick-all
>"wtf no fair why do i have to crunch time now just because we have to release product in 7 months?!?"

The distinction is that these cycles are artificial in tech: Competent project management should have involved scheduling before the crunch, since these deadlines are internally set.

Yes, the hurricane knocked out the other refinery and you have to pick up the slack, makes sense.

There's no other refinery in game development; It's an artificial crisis intended to promote turnover and game production incentives.

And, no. They're not getting paid for it. They're salaried. The whole reason they do it is because they're not getting overtime.

Crunch is bad since there are health related issues especially with things like sight, spine, potential RSI and making someone work more than 8 hours at a time is bad.
HOWEVER
It's only bad because the devs are the following
>Fucking retarded
>fucking lazy
>horrible at sticking to schedules
>having cucks as their creative directors
Crunch would not be nearly as big of an issue if all the fucking around in game dev didn't happen. A proper, formally organized plan for the project including PROPER SCOPE is a must. Instead the western devs are too lenient and let every retard come up with ideas so it feels like a "team effort". Proper scope and planning with proper goals and milestones marked out will ensure they aren't wasting months on end doing shit that doesn't work that when the dead line starts looming they start doing 100+hour work weeks because they were jerking themselves about a mechanic that just didn't work. Additionally they should be grey boxing and getting all kinds of gameplay mechanics working once the project starts NOT THE FUCKING CINEMATICS AND STORY. Get your mechanics working FIRST.
>tl;dr - Crunch is bad because of it's issues. The thing is solving it is going to piss off the devs far more than anything. They keep fucking around and wasting years of development for no fucking reason then the deadline comes up and they start going full ham.

Breaking your back in a construction site or having hourly suicidal thoughts in your cubicle are different kinds of hell that have pretty much the same origin, greedy businessmen

yea, if they studied more they could get forced to crunch behind a desk in a shitty cubicle, so fuckin dank dude

What the fuck is Blizzard working on?

>Classic
Mostly done and you didn't have to do much anyway
>Retail
Lmao
>Hearthstone
Nothing
>Overwatch
A few skins a nothing
>Starcraft 2, Heroes of the Storm, Diablo 3, etc etc,
LOL

Hire more people if you are gonna cry about it

This is literally just Blizzard having piss poor management. Their offices are basically like playgrounds where everyone is buddy buddy and no one gives a shit about their work, as is evidenced over the drop of quality across the board in all their games.

>In the summer of 2018, as temperatures in Los Angeles surged to the 80s and 90s, many of the testers at Treyarch found themselves facing their own heat wave.
>The QA department at Treyarch is broken up into day and night shifts. During crunch time, those two shifts would cover the full 24 hours. The day shift would come in at 10 a.m. and leave at 10 p.m., while the night shift would do the inverse, arriving at 10 p.m. and exiting at 10 a.m. One thing that added to the stress of this extended schedule, according to three people who have worked in testing at Treyarch, was that the office kept turning the air conditioning off at night once all the other developers had left. Although the night air was cooler, the rows of computers and consoles ran no less hot.
>“We’re still there and have all these things running, so the temperature would basically spike to 90-something degrees,” said one tester. “A couple of jokes were made about sweatshops and all that, but it’s terrifying, because it kind of was sometimes, especially in the dead of July.”
>“They told us the AC was broken, even though it worked all day and turned off at the exact same time each day,” said a second tester. “No matter how much we pressed them to do something or get it fixed, nothing would happen.”
>“I had co-workers who were literally sweating through their clothing,” said a third.
>It took two months of QA leads desperately emailing the office before Treyarch started leaving the air conditioning on for the night shift, the first tester said. “Even then they would forget sometimes.”

Attached: 1492094139348.png (577x516, 537K)

If they aren't getting paid overtime they should quit and if they're that talented, they can start their own company. Indies whip up good reputations and churn out boring metroidvanias with tards all the time.

>Blizzard employees are expected to Crunch?
If I were blizzard, that would be my greatest secret. You stress your employees that fucking hard and your current state of games is all you have to show for it? Blizzard is a fucking joke. Talk about squeezing blood from a stone.

some new type of overwatch thing(game or expansion) is already confirmed. All story content

imagine the smell

damn, that's scary to think about

It's the new excuse for useless workers in the industry.
>The game sucked because we were crunched and it was haaaard

They're working on Diablo 4 + Overwatch 2(PvE-focused game).

Oh and when I said "Stressing your employees" I don't mean mentally or anything, I don't give a fuck about them in capacity. I only mean, if you are going to overclock your employees, I expect results.

I got the aircon off babe, I don't have to imagine

Attached: SNNNIIIFFF.jpg (1039x651, 90K)

>not sustainable
what does that even mean? it sustained him through his entire self-made career just fine?

>coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
>what r workers unions
anywho the most likely reason for journalists to focus on it is its the vogue now and many employees and former employees are willing to talk about it when asked, if there not already trying to form there own workers unions to stop the practice or something along those lines

Attached: doctor-doom.jpg (833x428, 102K)

Because you have young people coming in who have never worked a hard day in their lives, they think sitting at a desk goofing around for 8 hours and doing 3 hours of actual work is tough. I see it all the times at work, the little amount of work getting done at video game companies on a normal day is a thing to behold.

Journalists are learning to code and now they’ve brought their complaining with them.

what, so why didn't they just, instead of writing emails about it, go turn the air conditioning on? this either has to be a joke

Learning to code is a tough job

I only have so much sympathy. These devs just need to find other jobs or go work for other companies if the crunch is that bad.

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
well for starters most of it is machine driven anymore and what ever physical labor is left is on par of what you could do around a yard.

Because game journos want to push the narrative that dev unions need to become a thing.

Have you ever had a job?

It's probably controlled automatically in a way that normal workers can't just access it.

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.

Yeah because they unionize. Which you’ll also complain about if game devs start doing it.

Why not talk to the people there during the day before they left?

>Hire more people if you are gonna cry about it

The ones crying about crunch aren’t the ones who get to decide to hire more people. Does anyone here actually live in the real world?

not him but i would have turned it on or broken the rules to do so.
i dunno how it works in burgerland or europe, but if a higher up tried that shit here in aus most employees woulf just ignore him, fix the problem, and get back to whatever.

only sorta people that would dob on someone for something like this are usually foreigners or city fags

We get it, blizzard games currently suck and making your employees work past the agreed upon hours also sucks. Life sucks.

When physical laborers work overtime they get paid for it.

Try reading the post brainlet

Journalists are learning to code and now they’ve brought their complaining with them.

>It's not like people don't get paid for it
That's the problem, in those industries you do get paid, in vidya you are expected to do the overtime for free.

It really boils down to this.
Yes, do you? There are certainly cases where working conditions are unfavorable, but it's not uncommon for people to overvalue themselves. If they dislike their job that much, they should quit.

Then why aren't you?

>Soft rock mining
Oh I am laughing.

>getting fired and sued for tampering with company's property

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday

One, yes they are.
Two, They have unions which help minimize risk to health and lives.

because video game programmers are soibois and can't handle hard work, so they're complaining to their soiboi friends in video game journalism

So your studio head tells the publisher that the team can make the next milestone in 6 months, the team has to work crunch time to meet this deadline, somehow this is the publishers fault.

>sitting at a desk goofing around for 8 hours and doing 3 hours of actual work is tough
i think this applies to just about every desk job i ever worked at, sometimes i genuinely wish there was more work to get done because i'll be sitting there feeling bored to tears

>My stepfather works higher up in oil & gas and says this is how it works there too.
your Stepdad also gets paid OT and the demand for the product is high enough and dangerous enough they will take care of you, bonus, OT, showers, full beds for extreme OTs or getting snowed in etc. Game industry's demanded is artificial and is controlled by market shares directly followed by the fact it isn't hazardous to get careless with the work, you won't blow up the building fucking up code like you would at a refinery or plant. As such money of any kind and good press is all that matters so they unapologetic abuse the dumb and broken that just want to have their name tied to a big game so bad they kneel to their demands and by the time they catch what a raw deal it is, they are far to deep into it(such as debt) to just pull the plug and start fresh.

I want to make it clear I have no pity for those idiots that let this happen to them, I just think your approach is disingenuous.

Attached: 1559629866033.jpg (467x266, 91K)

This is the harsh reality, but for most departments they are given a deadline that must be adhered to because of release dates, so falling behind is so frowned upon that it becomes crazy to think you would get paid to "catch up". Such is life catering to SJWs

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
0/10 bait apply yourself
Yea Forums is dead

Attached: file.png (1407x165, 34K)

people sitting behind a desk are rushing to the defense of other people sitting behind desks

Attached: god bless the usa.jpg (850x1265, 173K)

this is a cool thought process to have until you need technicians lmao

sub-humans rushing to the defense of real humans, what kind of clown world is this

The Chinese at least are honest about their working conditions, unlike Americans who are the same but pretend to be morally superior.

i work refinery shutdowns as a contractor and i assure you their full time operators get big bonuses and extra time off after these shutdowns or other disasters

All this people agreeing with OP are morons and probably NEETs who haven't worked a day in their life. Even if you get paid for overtime, which isn't always the case, it's incredibly exhausting to work for more than 10 hours. Imagine waking up at 6, getting ready until 7 commuting to work, starting work at 8, working till 7 pm (if you had a one hour lunch brake), commuting home for an hour. In this case you are home at 8 and have roughly 3 hours left to cook, do chores, have time with your family or partner, before you should go to sleep. Now imagine people doing 12 hour work shifts and coming in on weekends while getting barely paid anything compared to other software devs, just because they want to work in the game industry out of passion.

>Boo fucking hoo, you have to work hard at your job of sitting at a computer typing. What a tragedy. Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
That's a very stupid argument. Any poor working condition is bad, period. If overtime is necessary, that's fine, but not on the extreme.
I know you haven't worked a day in your life in actuality.

mostly because developers are incredibly fucking wasteful.

>oh fug! we spent too much time and money reiterating different concepts for no reason instead of settling on something, now we must cludge together a substandard product

I'm not so sure it be a good idea to go union here, the dangers are not the same and they are not forced into these conditions. When the union ceases to be a collection of workers and becomes and entity in its own right, it just becomes two cocks up your ass instead of one. Think about it, if you can’t join a job without joining the union anyway what incentive does the union have to give a shit about you About as much as the people you work for had.

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.

Someone doesn't know anything about union history.

Yes. The refinery workers are.

The devs are not, and it's the only reason they risk such a large bump in OT.

You'd fix Crunch in a single month if you said that you can't call crunch Exempt.

They likely make more than you desk jockeys

I do this Mon-Fri and it's already getting fucking old.

If I had to also do it on weekends I would blow my brains out.

>Why is crunch becoming such a hot topic currently
Because millenial journalists never went to university to study a real career, and thus don't know that everyone that does meaningful work has to crunch once in a while.

well they tried killing the industry but faggots kept buying shit,

the only way to do it now is from the inside, if nobody makes games anymore nobody will buy then

Because the mere *existence* of a union alone is enough to put pressure on these companies to treat their workers better. The single most ineffective union in the world still does far, far more, just by *breathing* than no union at all.

It's why these companies fight unions so hard to begin with. If unions didn't matter, they wouldn't care.

It's the same one that OP made.

t. double digit IQ slave

imo that's the better idea over unions, make that you can't exempt or salary, most of the work can't be filled in with drifters or idiots that would work under the table to have their name to a game, that said I could see it go over seas, then again a union too would send it over seas so we are fuck in general.

Maybe if code monkeys had a sense of time management, they wouldn't need to crunch.

Attached: 1498159636983 2.png (540x476, 99K)

>everyone that does meaningful work has to crunch once in a while.
Difference being "once in a while", where most companies will do months of crunch because Activision needs the game NOW.

Problem nowadays are self imposed dead lines. Say what you will about Nintendo, but delaying their games instead of taking advantage of your employees is respectable.
Worst thing is doing things under crunch most of the times turns out bad. Look at Fallout 76 or Anthem and other products that were rushed out to hit quarterly sales quotas. In the end despite all the crunch these games released unfinished and broken and have damaged the reputation of their dev teams.

>coal miners
lmao, dead industry you whataboutist retard.
this desu
skilled tradesmen all have good conditions tho.
whataboutism is whataboutism retard.

is code monkey just an insult for programmers or it mean something else?

You do understand that "western devs" are way better about crunch than shitty Japanese devs, right?

why complain? you get paid for doing nothing.

>Because the mere *existence* of a union alone is enough to put pressure on these companies to treat their workers better.
certain companies, not all. I see your angle but in the gaming industry they could treat it like a bar and close shop and move on, or do what some companies have done and corrupt the union to work with them and then you have the two cocks up your ass situation again. The Union just won't have the power people think it would have.

That's why I said real career, if you don't have to crunch for a month each semester you might as well drop out and get a job in retail.

its what we call niggers who program

>you can't care about one thing because of another
You have to be 18 to post here

You mean the higher-ups.

Code monkeys just do the coding and really don't get a say in terh matter, save for unionizing.

Go to reddit and check out r/LiberalGameUnions

Yeah, you heard me. I just told you to check out a shitty sub on reddit. Well, if I am gonna have to deal with these type of threads that belong on /pol/, I think you should be forced to see the quality of "human" who defend the idea of unions in the gaming industry and realize just how inhumane they are.

Worst thing for me is, when I think about what I'm gonna do when I get home like watch a movie, read or play some games. Then I get home and am just so tired that I end up going to bed without doing anything in the end.

go back.

b-but Yea Forums told me that unions just cause unemployment because they don't take the needs of the rich into account

it is sort of like the plug and chug of the programming world. it specifically means braindead programming. kinda like saying you are an unskilled programmer.

>a month
Now apply that crunch to the next 3 or more, still going strong and not tired?

>millennials and iGen are such agreeable passive aggressive pussies that they let their higher ups treat them like shit for so long that they now need to cry all the time and want a daddy figure to fix the mess they made.

What the fuck happen?

Attached: BToKfv3CEAAIRKg.jpg (599x598, 35K)

There shouldn't be a need to crunch.
The reason is correct is because crunching only leads to fucked up code.
Fucked up code leads to more bugs and more time needed for maintenance.

Crunch time persists because most programmers don't have a spine and are typical 'yes men' cogs, not to mention have some ego with that 'i can make the deadline' thinking.
If programmers actually develop a spine and say NO to bosses, and actually stand by this then we would have better quality code and software.

yeah I know but it still annoys me a bit sometimes since i'd rather be doing literally anything else

Cant handle the crunch? Get out of the industry

can they actually not turn down overtime? that is kinda fucked. employer shouldn't be allowed to force you to work more than 40 hours.

>what happened?
reagan boomers

they studied more and do a lot more than these "narrative designer" "devs"

>Yea Forums
>Man, fuck these greedy companies for ruining gaming!

>Also Yea Forums
>Man, fuck the workers of these greedy companies for not wanting to put up with how they're ruining gaming!

>been through the crunch process five times now

What do I win

and yet here you are

As in how they raised those generations? Bercause

Attached: 1556197812872.jpg (368x353, 14K)

the mentality of the workplace is:

Coal miners make potentially 3x the amount of a software designer

Imagine having a job that's slightly above McDonald's paygrade but with 100+ hours including overtime and weekends

There are actual shills making these threads.

Yep.

There's a reason why people only last a couple years in the video game industry and jump over to general software programming, where they have a regular 9-5 schedule and can except to have a job still after the weekend, instead of the company shutting down overnight, usually after said company fails to cover basic pay for weeks/months.

A thank you from your wealthier higher ups keeping pic related gojng

Attached: e7a.jpg (1916x945, 238K)

in Drump's america corporations are always right

but like what happens when you say no?

yep, this is how leftists will take over gaming industry

They do, typically into software.

as it should be

technically with all the unpaid work they make much less than a fast food worker.

That's what people are doing and have been doing for a long time. But new devs come along to replace them.

this but say it to the financiers bleeding the companies dry, not the employees

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
That's why the UMWA exists. Because they unionized. You fucking moron.

Attached: footerlogo.png (959x668, 77K)

Netherrealms Studio is very scummy where they bait workers into thinking there is a chance they will get hired on full time if they break their back to get the games out asap to then talk around and discover none of the temps were hired on and they were just bsing people to abuse their work.

Some tranny-led union is trying to become a thing and since gayme journalism is a huge circlejerk suddenly everyone is speaking against MUH CRUNCH again

big if true

Why do you think video game companies have such high turnover rates?

Off to the gulag with ya
Yeah keep churning out that AAA SJW garbage, or the next Call of Battlefield, you sure are innovating and helping the industry by being jewish fucks who don't give a fuck about helping games.

That’s because they hAve unions

they terminate them?

>implying
>Whoah, your local sneedposter looks like THAT?

Sneed

Attached: 20190627_183009.jpg (3015x2256, 1.01M)

Blizzard also laid off 800 employees, a good number who had just moved to the state they are based in, just to "sweeten" a working contract for a new CEO.

For as much money as the industry brings in, it's a fucking joke.

Do you even know what a dev is? You don't become a software developer over night. And even writers usually have multiple degrees. Say what you want about the worth of these professions, but one thing is for sure it takes longer and more intellect to become a software developer than to become builder.

shit, miners were the ORIGINAL union advocates, the people who got shot by the national guard and jumped by pinkertons for their right to co-own company towns
good luck getting this through a dumbass bootlicker's head

GAWHDAAHMNIT DUUUTCH

Define the bounds of community. We’re all citizens of earth friendo :^)

codemonkeys think they are valuable now

>only western games crunch

in japan the last weeks of making a game are LITERALY called the DEATH MARCH, like that shitty isekai anime it was named after that

>old roommate's brother talking to me one day because I'm in grad school and he had recently finished a master's in game dev or software dev or something game related
>said he was moving to Cali to work for EA
>laughinggirls.jpg in my head the entire time

Meanwhile the coal industry is in decline and manual labor is being replaced with automation

nigga, you didn't have to shit your hand just to prove you aren't a liar, you could've just stopped posting

not these tranny "devs", no
they're not used to working at all

japan culture is kind of fucked tho. NA is much more about work life balance.

>be dumb, don't care about working conditions, break back and get black lung and die in your 40s
>be smart, care about your working conditions, fight back when you don't get proper work conditions, retire in your 40s

>sucks government cock
>calls someone else a bootlicker

Attached: Reddit_Armie.png (400x400, 92K)

Yes, but what does that have to do with the unions? The coal industry is dying out because coal simply isn't viable to use anymore.

>rape victims shouldn't complain because there are people being gang raped all the time
Thats your logic.

>Americans
FUCK THE WORKERS! IF YOU CAN'T KEEP UP WITH THE COMPANY DEMANDS GET THE FUCK OUT!
>also Americans
NOOOO YOU CAN'T HIRE IMMIGRANTS! IT'S NOT FAIR! THEY WORK FOR LESS AND HARDER! TRUMP HELP US!!

>weeks
let me say it again, WEEKS, because the japanese industries are so used to working their asses off that falling behind isn't a concept to them except for the few moments they are beheaded.
Meanwhile NA sits on their ass for a year and then crunches for months at a time.

People get it good enough, but these people are not getting shot and if they were not so agreeable would never have gotten into this mess, it's a very generational broad thing where these idiots were groomed by good intention parents and what not that created this system where a swath of adults are willing to work in these horded conditions because it was their dream or they like saying they work there rather then telling them to fuck off and forcing them to change their ways.

why?

that will result in shittier games that take longer to make
and is not like western games are good to start with but losing the little quality they have now would be terrible

You are retarded beyond belief, if you think that a tranny without a degree in software sciences is going to get employed as a dev, just for being transgender. You just don't want to accept that even a man with a mutilated dick has achieved more than you in life.

>Government
>Unions
Someone's retarded

>mfw only work 40 hours a week, but more like 35 after taking out leaving work early and extended lunch breaks

i feel bad for people who work 45+ hour weeks, how do you have time to play vidya after work?

Attached: 1538014572558.jpg (757x910, 434K)

The people getting fucked in the game industry are QA testers and customer support. Anyone who has a single skill beyond graduating high school is treated well.

>think 300 million people have the same thoughts and opinions

here is that (You) you wanted so badly, did it help you feel better?

Attached: 1554395391795.jpg (640x640, 89K)

You don't. You play on weekend occasionally.

Welcome to the world. It isn't just americans that are inconsistent shitheads. If you find me 10 humans who all have morals that are all 100% internally consistent, I'll eat my hat.
The sad truth of it is that everybody is out for themselves, whether or not they actively think they are. These inconsistencies are just how they justify it to themselves.

Because a video game developer in crunch time works 20 more hours a week than coal miners do. And crunch time can last for months. And make way less money doing so.

You confuse working long hours to mean they don't care about what they're making, it's pretty much the opposite by force, but also you have a lot of leads who encourage people to see their vision and strive for it.
It may be all fucked up, but the resulting product is something they can be proud of, and they can be happy they aren't an anime company.

One, that's BLATANTLY incorrect.

Two, everyone who works deserves workers' rights.
Everyone.

Honestly I'm not even the guy you were replying to I just like dabbing on physically weak Yea Forumsirigins

not really. the purpose of crunch time is that the cyclical nature of game development means over exerting your employees is cheaper than expanding the team since you don't have to pay the extra salaries during downtime. even if it means worse games, since it is more profitable. it doesn't make games better or quicker to release. Also this is a universal concept and across the board American industry is most certainly not suffering to compete with Japan. the Japanese mindset on it is really unhealthy.

It's a case by case basis at best, you really should get rid of people who can't meet the demand.

Would that really work though? Suing an employee cause he turned the AC on during summer?

bigger teams have less coodination and never deliver good products

any game made by more than 100 people is fucking shit

Of course.
But you gotta figure out exactly who isn't meeting demand and exactly why, and you can't trust those kinds of investigations to be internally consistent.

They have to pay them, if not then they should sue. If you mean they are on salary and the salary is based on 50 hours a week but they work 80, then its too bad so sad. What these salary workers aren't complaining about is the weeks leading up to crunch when they leave early or only work 38 hours and get paid for 50.
I had a salary job that I ended up quiting because I was making like 10 dollars an hour when I took the amount of time I worked and divided how much my salary was.

Crunch is inevitable with AAA games. You cannot expect that level of a game to be released in a reasonable time frame without crunch. Only way to remove it is smaller scale games but good luck telling management that. Unions will not fix shit management is the issue because alot of game companies, at least the bigger ones are run by people with little interest in games

Attached: 1559861831169m.jpg (1024x768, 56K)

Besides your shit taste in games, hyper specialization and comparative advantage creates much better products.

Funny thing, there's a story about a guy in Japan who decided he didn't want to kill himself like everyone else and just did his job as he was actually scheduled.

Not only did he finish all his work on time, he also took on others work as he had the free time to do so. From a functional standpoint, this dude was a fantastic employee who did not need overtime to complete his assigned tasks, let alone the work of others.

His co-workers didn't like this, so they gave him more work in an effort to make him stay the same hours they were. He still did the work without the overtime. So then his boss made him not do work anymore. He couldn't browse the internet or play games or anything, he was forced to stay at his desk for 8 hours a day with nothing to do, as that was his work now. He eventually had to quit because of depression from the job and a passive-aggressive work environment.

Literally the best employee there, and he was punished for not doing things inefficiently for the sake of the "culture."

Nah, in the game industry it's pretty damn easy to see 2+ missed deadlines and replace them, there are an endless stream of artists/programmers willing to crunch that can take their place.

>but good luck telling management that.
that's what unions do

>coal isn't viable to use anymore
You don't know what this means. Decentive state programs and artificially high labor costs are the reasons why coal is in decline

either the workers will need more protection, or the executives will need it

you can have more man-hours of work performed in the same calendar time by having more shifts of workers
you can adopt more efficient development methods that require less labor
you can adopt less amibitious projects that require less labor
but overtime happens all of the time globally to meet demand

no one is afraid of a 90lbs danger hair with a pierced phallus

Most relevant trade unions are state sponsered you brainlet. You're not fooling anyone here commie

what?

it's only because of subsidy that fossil fuel is still used at all in the developed world

nah the industry is too competitive
they are replaceable

Yup, it all boils down to having too much shit stacked on people that the person with less shit gets the runoff, then you factor in the overflowing tide of shit and you get cases like this.
They are making gradual steps to being real human beings, but for the time being I would like to enjoy the asian's bug-like nature while it lasts.

How fucking dare people want better working conditions.

it's you

>automation
This is what is literally going to happen to almost every job within the next couple of decades.

>Nah, in the game industry it's pretty damn easy to see 2+ missed deadlines

Sure, but who's setting the deadlines? Why are they set that way? Are they set uniformly for every worker, or based on need/efficiency? What about the task? Is it routine or unique? Are there any unexpected snags? Were these snags accounted for when the original deadlines were set?

A bad worker is a bad worker, on that we can agree, but game development is a fluid enterprise with many variables and complications, even on an individual basis.
And you're right, it *would* be easier to just fire the guy and hire someone more willing to kill themselves. The problem is, while that's easier on the company's bottom line, they're literally the only ones benefiting. The guy getting fired gets shafted for obvious reasons, the guy replacing him *will* burn out, and the overall quality of the product decreases dramatically, so the end-user isn't happy either.
That's why unions are necessary, so nobody gets fired and replaced by a sycophant, nobody is killing themselves rushing out an incomplete product, and nobody is making internet petitions to completely remake Mass-Effect Andromeda from scratch

State SPONSORED doesn't mean state RUN.

And of course unions are state sponsored, the entire goddamn point of the state is to support the interest of the common man.
I know we've kinda lost that thread here in the USA, but that's the idea. "By the people for the people" and all that.

Source needed

"CRUNCH" happens because those that were carrying their weight leaves the company midway and diversity quota hires that spends all their time on twitter/social media suddenly have to do real work and panicked

work needed to be done in a game development hasn't increased much while the tools to do so gets easier and easier to use so the problem isn't with the work load than the actual work done in the industry
this is also what project manager supposed to do, if major deadlines aren't being met they should cut it into smaller deadlines and hammer issues down as soon as they appear, instead of "stress free no deadline" attitude most studios have nowadays
because guess what, investors still wants their money back eventually

That's the thing, crunch is actually bad for overall efficiency. Mistakes get made when people get tired/worn out for the day and these mistakes just compound on one another, with the "fix" for it being "crunch."

People typically can work 8-10 hours a day before they start to physically/mentally check out, which is where you would want them to clock out for the day as any extra work on them is bound to get fucked up (ie, bad code.) A day or two of overtime wouldn't create much fuckup, but weeks/months of it absolutely will. It compounds, not multiplies. Crunch creates an environment in which you have to fix all the mistakes without the mental-advantages of being well rested/motivated. Plus the physical problems that arise from being stationary for 12+ hours a day starts to become apparent (ie, circulatory, vision, etc).

>instead of "stress free no deadline" attitude most studios have nowadays
There aren't any.

Even 8 hours is generally agreed to be way too much. As I recall, workplace efficiency drops of drastically after around the four hour mark, no matter what industry you are in.

Where I'm from all unions are run by the mob, and are shit to be in.

That's generally when you take a lunch break.

>sycophant is the willing worker
you want coercion to protect your high-paying desk job from competitors because you work overtime to make baby toys that run on machines made through purely exploitative asian and african labor

And where's that

In places like Germany and the Netherlands, a standard workday is 6 hours, and they're up to 50% more productive than their American counterparts.

haha the four hour workday through SCIENCE

Physical labor actually makes you feel tired relatively content.

Mental labor like programming just makes you miserable and depressed.

I love my job, but honestly when I was just doing physical work moving heavy shit around I was far less depressed.
Plus
>move shit around all day
>days done
>go home and drink

>computer shit
>finish shit 2 hours overtime
>go home
>fuck. should have done X instead of Y
>oh maybe i could do...

The tristate region of the US.

Let's take your Mass Effect metaphor a little further.
>Several species are present, and each one would need at least 2-3 variations so they don't blend together, and they need animations
>We need guns, and we need the animations for those guns
>We need the humans, especially the main character, to be animated
>We need a lot of humans since you will see a lot of them
From that you build a list of all the things you "think" you need, you might be able to squeeze in or take out one or two during dev time but you have a deadline and this list is your Holy Bible.
Deadlines for each person are set based on how long they can take editing the base model (based on the release date), how long they can spend making alternatives, how long they have to make the basic animations, extra animations, one-off animations in that order.
Game Development isn't constantly flowing, they need structure to work, and when people take their time making the foundation they sure as hell aren't going to make it.

Just because productivity drops, doesn't mean work isn't getting done

this actually
unions are just a racketeering tool most of the time for the someone else's benefit

No i isn't

standard work day is 8 hours, 5 days a week
Very few people can afford less than 36 hours a week

t. dutchfag

Why don't they just finish their game ahead of time???

>maybe those physical laborers shouldn't have been stupid and studied more

Then your degree would be far more useless and you wouldn't live in a house.

this old canard again

wenns mal wieder überstunden gibt

Attached: riegelschokolade_1275_p1.jpg (300x225, 22K)

Actually, the Mass Effect thing is a perfect example of why it IS constantly flowing.
That game changed design docs, engines, and lead workers an unholy number of times, and the engine they finally landed on (Frostbite) was flat out NOT designed to be used for the kind of game they wanted Andromeda to be.
Lower workers should not be punished for the decisions of higher-ups.

you have a bunch of part-timers that skew the average downward

That is pretty much how jobs are in general
Doing work for somebody else's benefit.

Let's not get crazy.

>little Amerifart watches video about LIFE OF A SOFTWARE ENGINEER
>sees free food, hanging with friends, team puppy meetings
>WOW!
>gets into debt for schooling
>gets job
>there is no free food
>coworkers are 40 year old men with family/wife problems
>there are no puppies
>get phone call at 9pm saying you need to get program ready by tomorrow or client walks

American millennials were straight up duped into thinking work is easy/fun. Morons. Work sucks, do your 8 hours and get the fuck out.

Attached: 1279165808665.jpg (332x386, 18K)

Attached: 1561678202327.png (1901x2506, 743K)

I think most Japs are used to working more than 8 hours, crunch time for them is literally sleeping in the office, and all it takes is a lead standing next to them assuring everyone the end product is worth it for a few weeks of polishing.
In this time though they basically live with the people in their office, and feeling like the guy down the hall is your brother does A LOT for productivity.
I don't actually work in japan though

Try 12-16, which is what crunch calls for.

free food is a lure places like google use to get you to stay at work all day

8 hours is not what they work.

>>sees free food, hanging with friends, team puppy meetings
my understanding is that this is true, but you have to join a high profile company and the turnover is insane anyways

Never take a salaried job. As for the companies paying hourly: these guys do get paid, they just don't get a higher rate per hour for their overtime.

I'd love to have a job where not only do I get more time to finish my workload, but get even the regular hourly rate for those extra hours. In my industry, it's hard and fast with constantly shifting priorities due to the customer breathing down your back.

It really is boo fucking hoo. Yes, management needs to do a much better job. Yes, more of the profits going to the top need to be reinvested into the company for more staff and equipment, along with better wages for the QA testers. Guess what? It's the same everywhere. That doesn't make it right, but that also doesn't mean that game devs need special treatment.

BUT THEY ARE.
It's why they are complaining, because they were expected to meet their deadline on assets despite the engine or limits reached by the higher-ups.
Deadlines are deadlines and the details are decided by someone else and that's fucking game industry, quit if you want we will constantly remind you that someone else is more than willing to take your job.

>n-no i am NOT jealous.......
COPE

I honestly don't know how I could get my shit done in 6 hours. The 150-200 emails daily, the useless meetings for a problem that could be resolved in 5 mins which just further the convolutes simple problems. Being in management in a big corp is fucking annoying.

No one wants to get shit done. They want to dress it up in fancy corporate speak then wander off for a 90 min lunch.

>8 hours
the point is that they're not doing just 8 hours, they're forced to do unpaid overtime

You don't need crunch if you don't make promises you can't keep; and you'd be able to keep your promises if you and your team were more competent. I guarantee you, they hire people for reasons beyond merit, and then are left confused when they're behind schedule.

Education doesn't predict lifetime success once you control for IQ. So long as you're not malnourished or repeatedly hit in the head with a baseball bat, how intelligent you are as an adult will be predicted by how intelligent you are as a toddler. It's genes. Coal miners don't work in coal mines because nobody taught them trigonometry, they're doing the most complex task they can.
maamodt.asp.radford.edu/PSYC 651/Huffcutt & Arthur (1994) Interview.pdf

Attached: kssZoa7.png (411x232, 5K)

generally speaking most tech jobs are like that, to some extent, its just also a lot of work and people are typically motivated to complete the work.
so its
>work hard 2 hours
>joke for 10 minutes with people
>back to work
>30 minute break
>back to work

>they're forced to do
No they aren't. Quit.

it makes these bloggers feel like actual journalists

>don't make promises you can't keep;
the promises that the developers aren't making? The ones the companies are?

You are the one crying to mommy lol

>Fuck bills, just quit, why do you need to pay for anything?

Don't work for a company that makes promises it can't keep. Does that sound silly? Okay. Don't complain about crunch, then. You already know the solution. You don't want it.

Demand and Projects are one thing. Though technically you can just hire extra for that time. It's compareable anyways...

A video game is never 'DONE'. You can always polish it more. You can always polish a turd more as well. Just because you invest more time, doesn't guarantee sales however. So not only does crunch not always translate into a good product, it doesn't guarantee sales either. But if someone can whip you, they sure as well will. And if your product fails, and maybe the choices made by 'higher ups' just didn't work out, YOU still get to pay the price.
That is why all these arguments are fucking stupid.

>quit means be unemployed forever
I'm sick of morons like you who pretend to be retarded in literally every post you make.

>Quit.
and do what, join another place that will force them to do the same thing because it's an industry standard? Short of creating your own company you're not getting away from it. Not to mention you'll have to bring up why you quit in the first place which will make it even harder for you to get a job.

you are being just as disingenuous

Good fucking luck getting another job in the game industry telling everyone you were fired for not meeting deadlines.
Oh, but all you know is fast food, and it pays the bills, sure you have no money to call your own for the next year, but you have a place to sleep.

>Quit.
and literally every other business is the same shit. The buck is passed indefinitely but that doesn't actually make working conditions better for anybody

>all i have is this degree and years of work experience. how am i supposed to make a living
anyway if all you were interested were better working conditions you aim for better labor regulations, which would apply across the economy

>wageslavery
How do you guys do it? I'm making good money now but I can't stand having to leave the house for 9 hours day for 5 days a week. If I ever have to do over time I will get paid extra but not that much extra.

But that's generally true smart ass.

>Quitting
This is the biggest black mark you can ever have on a resume no matter how you try to spin it.

people are conditioned from childhood to go somewhere and do shit they don't want to do for part of the day

If you're living paycheck to paycheck, quitting randomly could really mean you go homeless.

Ideally, you start handing out resumes to other companies before you quit, but even then the hiring process of other companies means they can promise you a job and decide last minute to not hire you after you put in your two weeks.

There is such a thing as looking for a new job while still being employed and then quit after you accepted the other companies offer. No one quits and then looks for a job after that.

Racist fuck

If you're living paychceck to paycheck you are a fucking idiot who made dumb decisions.

coal miners and physical laborers have unions backing them up to make sure they aren't being mistreated by their employers

You don't do it basically, you eat instant ramen for a few years, hope you get lucky, and if you don't you go straight back to the 9 to 5 and kill yourself at some point

actual software engineer at healthcare IT company heresorry to break it to you, but it's actually pretty cushy

whatever makes you feel better about being a pleb though

Attached: 1536879498023.jpg (859x1024, 106K)

>How do you guys do it?
No choice. I'm not female so I can't get free shit for just existing.

or you live in california/got into the videogame business/same thing.

Unpaid overtime is illegal. If it was said somewhere, those people should sue. I assume you're actually just misunderstanding what "crunch" is, though.

I'm about to blow your mind. Are you ready? Nobody creates jobs for YOU, companies create jobs to expand their profits. They don't have to! You decided to be something. If nobody is hiring, nobody that you are willing to work for, then, what? What the fuck do you want? Do you want the state to magically conjure someone you are willing to work for? Are you retarded? Do you not know how "reality" works? Blizzard exists because some guys wanted to make a video game company, not because it was ordained by some God that a game developer MUST EXIST so that YOU specifically can have the job you WANT. Uh, no, I'm sorry if someone told you that's how it works, it's not.
>b-but I gotta pay my bills!
Everyone does. But if you don't want to work for yourself, then someone you are willing to work for and are allowed to work for must exist first! It must exist...FIRST. Not "it must exist." It must exist first. I might not exist. Oh fucking well!

>quit job
>start looking for new job, already on the clock as bills start to pile up
>every interview you go to ends the same way: "Can you tell us why you quit your last job?" "Yeah, I didn't want to submit to the industry standard way of fucking their employees over" "Yeah... sure."

So what if African children work in cobalt mines? I have to work overtime, because I didn't get my work done for the last three years.

Physical work feels good for a while, but it gets bad when you have to do it every day without fail and your body doesn't get enough time to recover.

>quit job
>start looking for new job,
reverse the order here you dumb fuck.

>If it was said somewhere, those people should sue.
It's "salary", not per hour. Neat trick they pulled, eh?

Why? Because some game devs believe that they can work normal hours and not need to do extra hours. They seem to forget that they are working on something that people are going to play for a whille, a year, 2-3... Or they believe that beign a game dev is some kind of wellfare shit where they can half assing every day. And then get away with garbage games being made. No. YOu work your ass of, to make the BEST product. If you bitch and complain about crunch. Then do your fucking job properly. Nobody is going to pay for a half assed product.

you can't search for a new job if you are already hired, it's clearly stated in most contacts

Then stop complaining about your desk job. You have it easy.

It honestly depends on the industry/corporation you got the software job at.

I have a decently "cushy" job right now, make $60k handling "emergency" issues and cover a late shift once every 4 weeks, show up 20 minutes late every day and take extra long lunches and leave 10 minutes before the wagecucks at the company do. Mainly just shoot the shit and watch youtube but I know my shit and nut up when asked to. Still trying to leave for a new job because they have a shitty high school esque culture and "cool club" clique way of promoting people

Because overworked employees of any kind will result in sloppy results. Video games aren't as deadly when they fail as compared to industrial accidents, but I sure don't like it when I pay for anything that doesn't function properly.

Also because crunch time implies that everything important is being done in a last minute rush. That means no time to correct planning mistakes that can ruin a game, whether in stability or in gameplay design.

That's indeed shitty, but I struggle to feel sorry for people who fall for tricks. If I hear one more soiboi say
>PREDATORY PRACTICES
I might shoot up a Starbucks. And I'm not talking about injecting caffeine into my veins.

Just changes it a bit
>searching for new job while employed
>go to interview
>"will you submit to the industry standard way of screwing employees over?"
>"no"
>"fuck off then"

Videogame companies aren't a fucking overnight business venture, how retarded are you?? You don't just quit your job and decide to make games on your own, you spend YEARS trying to release one game, no fucking money, no fucking excuses.
Oh my god you rolled a d-fucking-20 and people actually like your game enough to support you, now you are tethered to them in order to make enough money TO FUCKING LIVE.
Or you crawl back to the queue to work in the fucking industry until the work kills you, or you do yourself in.

you're why the black nurse i had couldn't figure out how to use the patient management system

Wow, it sounds like a lot of you guys hate these industry standards. That's a prime opportunity to start a business yourself! Advertise that you don't treat your employees that way and watch the peasants line up outside your door! You will totally do that. These assholes did, and they don't deserve the money they earn, which means anyone must be able to do it. :^) Go on.

I make 3 times as much as what my bills cost and no debt, why can't I just go to work half as often?

glad you picked coal miners, they're completely replaceable

>working at a computer
you're not getting paid for that, are you? devs can do something you can't making something you want. they shouldnt be overworked, alongside anybody else that doesn't CHOOSE to overwork

Ask your boss.

>get one chance at life
>spend your best years preparing to work and wasting them working
>hope you reach retirement in good health and have enough time to enjoy life
>people defend this
OH NO NO NO NO NO
AHAHAHAAHAHAHA

1, Game companies shoId onIy set deadIines that are on par with productivity,
2, If game companies can not set a reasonabIe deadIine, they shouId hire more peopIe,

He's alright with me coming in at 10 but I don't think he'll let me not show up for 20 hours.

t. Neet that has never worked a day in his life

why don't you get everything from the free tree so you can spend your time self-actualizing or whatever it is you want to do with your life?

Is working for AAA studios the ultimate cuckoldry?

I cannot think or comprehend of anything more cucked than working for an AAA studio. Honestly, think about it rationally. You are coding, debugging, modeling and animating a game for at least 18 months solely to accomplish someone else's vision. All the hard work you put into your beautiful little game - creating a proprietary engine, implementing gameplay mechanics, making sure the online infrastructure works well, debugging it, and all the overtime. All of it has one simple result: accomplishing the vision of your boss.

Created the perfect game? Great. Who benefits? If you're lucky, you get a bonus, but don't expect royalties. Your boss gets to fuck tight prostitutes every night. He gets the benefits from the multi-million selling games that came from the way you worked so hard.

As a man who is working at an AAA studio, you are LITERALLY dedicating at least 20 months of your life simply to fulfill the dream game of another man rather than your own vision. It is the ULTIMATE AND FINAL cuck. Think about it logically

Attached: hits pipe.jpg (720x888, 334K)

Why does it cost money to exist? Doing shit you don't care about for someone else is a bummer. I thoght Mr. Shekelstein was a cool guy. Very lax, open, and supportive. Now that the customer's on his ass a little he's turned into a demon.

Here's the problem you don't seem to grasp.

It is in EVERY company's best interest to exploit their workers as much as possible.
Every single one.
So yeah, if I'm being mistreated at company A, and I quit and, by some miracle, I'm magically hired on at company B, there is no guarantee that I'm not going to be putting up with the exact same bullshit that got me to quit company A.

In fact, there's a very good chance that I WILL, because I'll be looking for work with the skills and experience that I acquired from company A, so company B will be very similar in design, ethos, and structure.
If everyone quit every single job that mistreated them, the only people left "working" will be the CEOs and CFOs.

This is why unions are important: they're a third party arbitrator that can set the baseline for how much work an average worker can and should be expected to work. They allow the company AND the workers to have their cake and eat it too; the company knows exactly how much it can require from each worker, and the workers aren't worked to the point of actual suicide.
And, as a happy side benefit, happy, non-suicidal workers work harder and produce higher quality work, meaning the final product is higher quality, meaning the company benefits in the end.

Imagine being the 900th employee on the Asscreed no one will be able to distinguish for the previous or next five.

>Videogame companies aren't a fucking overnight business venture, how retarded are you??
Work is work.
>You don't just quit your job and decide to make games on your own, you spend YEARS trying to release one game, no fucking money, no fucking excuses.
That is because you want - WANT - a game that has the standards of games that a large group of people spent years making. For that, you must conform to a group and their rules, like it or not. And yeah, it's not just any job, it's a creative one, which means it's very high risk, no matter how you cut it. O~h we~ll. You chose that as your job, not me.
>Oh my god you rolled a d-fucking-20 and people actually like your game enough to support you, now you are tethered to them in order to make enough money TO FUCKING LIVE.
Yes, nobody lives for free. You weren't born with a golden dick and oil pouring out of your nipples, you were born useless and worthless. You might still be! No one's giving you money for you to be useless and worthless. Money is literally paper worth, and (sadly?) we don't live in the woods anymore, so you can't (usually) just live off the land. If you want the money to afford all the great things humans work hard to create, you need to trade something of equal worth to them. You can't just be like, "Hey, I exist, can I have a car?"
>Or you crawl back to the queue to work in the fucking industry until the work kills you, or you do yourself in.
I work a minimum wage job in a factory doing an 83 IQ job, breaking my back, sweating into my 10-year old clothes, and sometimes, they just lay me off 'cause "eh."

But making video games. JESUS! When is someone going to write a folk song for these people?

This whole thing is dumb anyways since Blizzard makes garbage games.

>as a happy side benefit, happy, non-suicidal workers work harder and produce higher quality work, meaning the final product is higher quality, meaning the company benefits in the end.
So in other words, it ISN'T in every company's best interest to exploit their workers as much as possible, and companies doing so just have shitty management.

>Blizzard "Take literally 5 years to fully release Starcraft II"
>crunch
Who are these lazy fucks trying to fool?

>become a software dev
>go into games
Full retard. There's more money and better conditions elsewhere with similar desired skillets.

The problem is, all companies want something they can quantify.
"Hours worked" is easily quantifiable. "Worker satisfaction" isn't, and there's no direct correlation between that and product quality

Putting insane hours in at a big company is a good way to get started in an industry for someone fresh out of college, because big companies have the resources to give the best training and they look good on your resume. This is true in almost every industry. Law, public accounting, etc. Most people burn out and lateral to something with better work/life balance after a few years.

the best part about all of this is it's just going to be the topic everyone whines about for years like they prostrating themselves before outsiders hoping they will magically make their job into something they like doing, with, apparently, the benefit of the suit also complaining about it the minute he walks out of the door

Fucking babies. I work 60+ every week salary. Yeah I want to kill myself, but I don't go around whining about it.

>Why is crunch becoming such a hot topic currently?
working is a novel topic for journalists, so crunch periods are news to them.

they fooled some in this thread for sure

>I'm a braindead-idiot who wouldn't make it in any other industry
So why are you trying to comment on them?

start sending complaints to game industry people
just lookup their addresses and snail mail them complaints about your working conditions

Blue collar guys make more money than white collar guys now.

>imagine wage slavery to literally be 'work more or be fired' and your boss really down your throat
>find wage slavery is all soft power, social guilt, and promoting social intensives for being an extra good boy
I feel sick.

Neoliberals shills, whether or not you already know it yet.

Attached: cr5bWAa.png (2160x476, 310K)

Thats like crying retail work gets hectic during christmas.
Or movie theater during summer
Or costume shop during halloween
Or a landscaping crew during spring

this reminds me of a bit I heard in a podcast
>you deserve a treaty-weaty today

yes more of this please
it feeds my desire to ship your baby toy jobs to asia when i see you piss on the proles

>It is in EVERY company's best interest to exploit their workers as much as possible.
I would be shocked if that weren't the case. You don't need the workers. You should squeeze every cent out of them.
>If everyone quit every single job that mistreated them, the only people left "working" will be the CEOs and CFOs.
Yup. And they'd be making a meager living doing their solo project, while you and your comrades would be starving in the street. Did you have an argument?
>This is why unions are important
They do nothing but make things worse.
>they're a third party arbitrator that can set the baseline for how much work an average worker can and should be expected to work.
Which is ludicrous, because the market knows that, not them. They don't know anything, that's why they think unions are good.
>They allow the company AND the workers to have their cake and eat it too; the company knows exactly how much it can require from each worker, and the workers aren't worked to the point of actual suicide.
Okay, mom. This is a good thing, because regulations are positively correlated with HDI.

...?

What? What's that?

Oh, no, it's negative...it's negatively correlated...

So are women in a company, as an aside. I bring that up because the idea of "HEY HEY HEY! LET'S ALL GET ALONG, OKAY? WOW! ALRIGHTY, THEN! Now! Listen. Everyone needs to make sure to care about the well-being of everyone else, mmm'kay? You are all important!"

Those people LOSE money. They're the ones who make bridges that collapse and kill people.

>And, as a happy side benefit, happy, non-suicidal workers work harder and produce higher quality work, meaning the final product is higher quality, meaning the company benefits in the end.
I mean, you say this, but this is also what Americans criticize the Japanese for, and Japan is better than America at everything, especially making video games.

Can I see a study on this happy workers thing?

Really? In their early 20s? I got 80k out of college as a white collar guy. That is the norm for a lot of us.

Was this post really that much better than ?

>"Worker satisfaction" isn't, and there's no direct correlation between that and product quality
You just said there was. >And, as a happy side benefit, happy, non-suicidal workers work harder and produce higher quality work, meaning the final product is higher quality, meaning the company benefits in the end.
Ned Flanders? Maybe you should just stop talking about shit you know nothing about.

You are all so stupid it's impressive

white collar jobs aren't all the same bro

Trust me, you should be glad to be male.

Depends on the specific job.

Mechanics get good money, general physical labor will not.
Surprisingly garbage collectors can get 60k or more, which is pretty nifty.

>where most companies will do months of crunch
this is nothing special. in public audit it's not uncommon to work for 1/3 of the year straight from dawn till dusk 6 days a week essentially.

>My one progressive faggot friend
>was boycotting RDR2
>he told me it was ok for companies to exploit uneducated people.
you have either the shittiest friends or you just made that up
we're on Yea Forums so I'm just gonna assume you made it all up because, let's face it, none of us have friends

Ive worked tons of places where we dont have access to the AC at all, corporate runs it from a different state
One time had my manager arguing fish were dying(pet store) because it was like 98 but corporate said "the forecast says its 74 there"

how many posts do you make on this website that contain no content but are just you experience tourette's syndrome

Yeah, are you guys happy to do it? Are you guys jumping for joy at the chance?

>workers unionizing so that they don't get fucked over is "leftist" now

Attached: THONKING.png (484x387, 119K)

>Yeah I'm a corporate cuck 1.5x the time you should have to work per week, so no one else is allowed to complain

I'd tell you to kys but you're miserable enough as is

Your boots, sir.

>Blizzard would not have made SC2/D3//HotS/TF2 Pixarbugaloo/BfA without crunch
Sounds like crunch needs to go.

Attached: 1559365654954.jpg (1920x1080, 223K)

40 hours? That's barbarous. No one should have to work more than 20 hours a week.
Obviously your consumption will also be limited accordingly.

I work as a developer for a financial company. I have "crunch" at least two weeks every month. Because I work on bond trading software and not bing bang wahoo shit apparently I do not matter and they don't make videos about me. It's pretty pathetic honestly how propped up game developers are compared to developers in other industries.

you can get the altright to hate anything if you just call it onions enough times

where I come from people who studied are memed on

Crunch at this point is only to support the publishers who demand millions, but the culture is so ingrained that the true freedom of game development is dead for AAA.

40 is needed to pay for basic bills.

>no u

No, that's outrageous. 20 hours or less is a human right. You just have to have fewer bills.

it's not that bad. people joke about it a lot, but that's just to help push through. the other 2/3 of the year you can just relax and coast on by doing fuck all. even at the 5th largest firm you can take 2 weeks off after busy season and not even use up PTO.
the perks, pay, and career options make it worth it if you ask me.

Pay them then, motherfucker.

Unions are not part of right-wing economics user.

>whataboutist

This has to be the most retarded made up word my brain cells had the pleasure to read no offense to you user

I'm not a braindead-idiot, I'm actually fairly intelligent. I can't prove it to you, because your metric for intelligence is "I paid to go to this building where an old guy told me stuff I could've just looked up online for four years and he gave me this piece of paper that let's everyone know I'm good at following orders and telling people what they want to hear."

But I probably wouldn't make it in any other industry. I'm in the 6th percentile for extroversion, the 19th percentile for conscientiousness and the 97th percentile for neuroticism. I just want to not feel bad, but that's impossible, because everything makes me feel bad. I was diagnosed with depression by a psychiatrist who said I had "death-seeking desires," but then I dropped out of school to be a NEET and everyone stopped caring about me. I'm only working now so I can pay my family back for my NEET days. I try not to think about what's after that. I think when my grandmother gets too old to take care of herself, that might be my time to sign off.

But until then, I'm going to tell wrong people they're wrong on the Internet.

>So why are you trying to comment on them?
Because, unfortunately, "WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY!" And your stupid-ass ideas affect everyone else. If the state didn't exist, I'd be like, "Rock on, kike, you stick it to The Man!" And then ignore you and your entire community.

It is, but we’re supposed to pretend it’s bad.

a lot of coping going on in this yhread. there's merit in pursuing physically demanding careers as well as mentally demanding careers. the fact that you all are trying so hard to one-up each other in this scenario speaks volumes about the current ethos of 4channers.

rather than argue about which one is "better," why can't talk about viable alternatives, regarding the gaming industry? crunch works for a little but like the guy in the article says, it won't last forever and eventually itll cause workers to crash and burn, taking the company down with them. what else can be to curve these outcomes?

Probably a Chapo.

>the perks, pay, and career options make it worth it if you ask me.
Too bad none of that applies to anyone but the director of the game

Honestly I think so many "pleb" jobs that have decided to practically cut all fulltime positions to replace with 2 part times that they can make work 38 hours a week without giving an option for any benefits is probably worse that desk jobs having to actually bust ass once or twice a year

when it fucking rains it pours. anyone over 30 will tell you there are soft periods and stress periods in work, and those fluctuations keep everyone sane.

only good post itt

Not him but the word might be retarded but the concept it is mocking is pretty real and over used by younger millenials and zoomers. No one can defend anything on its own merits anymore, they just deflect to some other comparison and try to push the responsibility back on you. It's pretty sad actually

I didn't read a word of your post, go shovel some more coal and breathe in the air enough to die shithead

>Too bad none of that applies to anyone but the director of the game
you mean the partners? also yes it does.

>those fluctuations keep everyone sane
this is some S.W.E.A.T. pledge shit

>arent crying about it.
You're crying about it right now though. If you weren't, you wouldn't be comparing it to a different job.

Better time management, for one. Stop relying on your team to go for overtime, which includes no more strong-arming them into it.

right-wing economics had what were called guilds
the right-wing was fairly emaciated by the 18th century

No one goes after the 34th guy on the list of "3d Artists", they go after the guy who the directors point out.

Same sector here and we're probably paid significantly higher wages than a game dev and you don't necessarily have to be living in California to work.

Why is complaining about anything such a hot topic currently? Boo fucking hoo, you have to put up with menial shit coming up on your computer while browsing. What a tragedy. Meanwhile the African kids and other third world citizens are dying of hunger and AIDS everyday and arent crying about it.
I'm saying you're a fucking idiot making retarded comparisons no one cares about, OP.

Attached: 1538187119197.gif (540x300, 100K)

mike rowe can suck my butthole. My youth soccer after season pizza party was harder than his average day of voicing over mars rover commentary.

good weeks make bad months seem like nothing, we are resilient fucking simians.

That's sweet actually.

Why do fat jobless NEET scum always seem to hold this opinion? Like they're something special.

> DAE think Japan bad cause work is very long?
> oh btw, Silicon Valley good cause work is very long!

I'll take the one that isn't faggot propaganda, everytime.

>You don't need the workers.
What the fuck? Yes you do. Who the hell is going to do the work?
>Yup. And they'd be making a meager living
They'd be making *NO* living, because no workers means no wages, no wages means no money, no money means NO MONEY CHANGING HANDS.
Fucking retard.
>Which is ludicrous, because the market knows that, not them.
The market knows how much it can EXPLOIT them for. That's it.

>because regulations are [...] negatively correlated...
s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/3581657/laroche00-05.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline; filename=What_Do_Unions_Do_to_Productivity_A_Meta.pdf&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A/20190628/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20190628T030712Z&X-Amz-Expires=3600&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=aa0c61140ccf3bd8978faeff3f1cfc48dfb094c40d20814eefcf4debd579c0c3
>The results from meta-analysis presented here suggest that if all of the available
evidence is pooled together, there is no association between unions and productivity.

>Can I see a study on this happy workers thing?
hbr.org/2015/12/proof-that-positive-work-cultures-are-more-productive
>In studies by the Queens School of Business and by the Gallup Organization, disengaged workers had 37% higher absenteeism, 49% more accidents, and 60% more errors and defects. In organizations with low employee engagement scores, they experienced 18% lower productivity, 16% lower profitability, 37% lower job growth, and 65% lower share price over time.

I make ~150k and I have to work for it but I expect it with that kind of money. When some British fuck calls me on a Monday morning at 4AM saying "OI, YER FOOKIN APP IS DOWN AGAIN FIX IT YE COONT" I do it because they pay me well and it's my job and I don't bitch to Kotaku about it not like they would care.

Who would do the work then?

>getting assfucked 50 times a day is better then being assfucked 51 times a day
spread em OP

>So in other words, it ISN'T in every company's best interest
When there is a factor that makes it so. Without the union or some other organization to enforce limits there is no factor that makes exploitation not in their best interest.

Wagie wagie slave all day
Work until your hair is gray
Have fun kissing boss' ass
While NEET stays home and *raises glass*
If only wagie were not a cuck
He'd not lick boot for half a buck
"NEET I am." I'll proudly say
"WAGIE WAGIE STAY AWAY"

Attached: file.png (231x218, 18K)

>I'm not a braindead-idiot, I'm actually fairly intelligent. I can't prove it to you, because your metric for intelligence is "I paid to go to this building where an old guy told me stuff I could've just looked up online for four years and he gave me this piece of paper that let's everyone know I'm good at following orders and telling people what they want to hear."

Just so you know, you sound like that 17 year old who's buddies with the really chill psychology professor. You know, the one who says fuck sometimes and talks about smoking weed when he was younger?

/r/pcgaming reddit, which is generally anti-sjw, is being propagandised heavily with pro-union shit lately, 70% of the articles are from that jew fag jason schreier. it's definitely a concerted effort by leftists, they keep shitting on any company that doesn't offer platitudes. watch out, if they make unions, the leftists will be in control of them, and it will make it take even longer to weed them out of the industry.

Why should I care about people who make shitty games for greedy corporations who don't care about gamers, moreover, I don't care about what dumbass games journalists think about the situation because they detest people who like games.

Attached: 1470696152146.png (249x250, 111K)

>this thread
GOOD GOYS

Attached: 1538453677469.jpg (912x768, 86K)

I don't know if I am pro Union in this situation but unions and loot boxes being illegal would probably crash the industry so thats a good thing

Why does Yea Forums love large corporations so much?

t. person with no job

if only writing propaganda for customers could unionize your industry

based jason helping to get a bunch of contractors shitcanned from their jobs tho

Based

>work in law
>60 hour week is my bare minimum, no OT
>80 hour week every other week
>so stressed I literally cannot sleep even if I get home early
>sometimes come home at 6, shower and change and get back at 9

I am not gonna make it am I?

/r/pcgaming deserves everything it gets due to being fucking reddit and defending every nigger under the sun to death
They dig their grave every single day, they don't deserve sympathy

Technology is already automating and reducing work loads. By the time we get a traditional worker-driven solution, the jobs won't be there to benefit from them.

Textures are already almost completely automated by using several high-res photographs of a surface from different angles. With a mid-range DSLR camera, a good tripod, and the right program you can single-handedly create hundreds of textures by spending a day at the park, or on a hiking trail, or in a city.

There's also procedural texturing which takes skill but can generation many variations of a single texture quickly. Between these two methods, texturing gets a lot easier. Not to mention that UV mapping has become less important as computers have gotten more powerful. Now you can get away without having to unwrap most of your environment and props. Just slap a tiling tri-planar texture on it and some decals. It's good to go.

Models are slowly catching up to the same kind of automation. There's already 3D scanning, but it's not used heavily in games yet. There's also some programs that can create objects with AI and procedural modeling. Basically generating random meshes, then piecing them together with AI using references, and then producing a usable 3D model. 3D modeling itself doesn't have the technical limitations it had 20 years ago, so it's a lot more forgiving for lesser skilled artists. It used to be you had to carefully plan and tweak polygon counts and geometry flow. Now you can get away with crutch topology and the computer will fix any weird polygons.

Animation has mocap. Now you need to pay for an actor but your animator isn't spending as much time carefully keyframing every little motion. That works out to be cheaper and faster overall.

Sound is already a joke but you just have libraries with so many great sounds. Add some procedural generation and bob's your uncle.

So the key to less demanding hours is there, the focus needs to be on job security now rather than hours

The BOOMER Pledge:
1. U2 CDs.
2. My back hurts.
3. How do I get Netflix on the TV, it just says HDMI1 and I wanna watch The Blacklist.

Leftists doing somersaults to explain why its ok to have an IPhone or pretending that tech of that level would even be extant in a utopian leftist society is nothing new or shocking

I'll take home around the same this year and that's why I'm in finance and not in gaming, but these people make around half of that.
Granted, doing well with the crunch while I made jack shit starting out is how I've worked my way up. Not everybody floats to the top of the corporate toilet, unfortunately.

blue collar jobs are basically replaced by robots designed by white collar jobs. It's very easy to follow. Blue collar workers are essentially just bio-robots. Prototypes.

why aren't those 70-year olds more spry and with it

Hadn't seen the original of this in a while. It still amazes me how submissive and complacent some people can become.

Attached: 1553098279242.jpg (1000x900, 81K)

epic gamers unironically believe that corporations will scrub women and minorities out of videogames

>get fucked over by a company
>don't complain about it, bro! Just let them get away with it instead of holding them accountable!

The NEET lives in a sort of prolonged denial, seemingly unaware that eventually money, like all finite things, runs out if not replenished.

Let's be generous and assume mummie and daddy know their NEET can't survive on their own, and work into their graves feeding him tendies and buying him video games. At the end of their lives, here the tragedy begins.

The NEET watches as a grave is lowered or ashes are scattered, and may, at that moment, come to the horrifying conclusion that the last two people who supported their life are now gone. Not on vacation. Not in the hospital. GONE.

Relatives, by and large, have no use for an overweight, uneducated manchild draining resources. Very quickly, savings run out. The lights shut off, then the water. The NEET curls up with dried tears in an unwashed bed playing a switch with 21% power, trying to focus on getting another Korok seed, trying to hope he'll wake up from this nightmare and mommy will have fresh tendies for him.

But the only person who comes is someone with a foreclosure notice, of which the NEET can only understand is a bad thing.

Five years later, they find the NEET, clutching whatever small remnants of his life haven't been pawned or stolen away, starved to death under an underpass.

And the "wageslaves" finally find a use for the NEET, dying in his own feces, alone and in poverty, as a warning for their children.

No, work is rarely "fun", and if someone is paying you to do something it's because it's something they can't or don't want to do, usually both. But it beats the NEET's delusional denial of the inevitable.

Why would they not fight for the highest salary possible? Have you never negotiated in your life?

I'm pretty sure the reason this exists is because what's his name is super aggressive about the Skills Gap, which is an actual thing

Coal miners are the trannies of the Republican party. Always talking about them, but theres like 15 total and you really dont give a shit about them besides using them as a political prop

loot boxes being gone won't crash the industry on account that money doesn't even go into the company itself and mostly just to stockholders/ceos.

In particular, EA's claim of sports games being unprofitable without them is total horseshit, as they are by default the most profitable each fucking year sales alone. They have a fucking monopoly on these things too, as well as on Star Wars. The workers aren't even paid well, nor typically keep their job after the game ships so the higher ups cut costs big time doing that shit.

To claim holding two IPs that sell like hotcakes on name alone, as well as holding a monopoly on them, as well as not giving your workers a proper wage, is somehow unprofitable without the gamble boxes is either: 1) complete bullshit or 2) your company genuinely doesn't deserve to be in business if your development is that poorly done with said golden-goose IPs.

Not if you stay in law. Go in-house ASAP or die of heart failure at 35. Your choice.

Imagine valuing yourself this much for being a trained monkey shitting out Annual Corporate Entertainment Title #9281

Any coal-miner with a modicum of intelligence has already accepted that he's going to die early.

>Now you can get away with crutch topology and the computer will fix any weird polygons.
Am 3D designer. Can confirm

>Ten years ago
>NO TRIS. NO N-GONS ON PAIN OF DEATH. WE WILL FUCKING KILL YOU.

>Literally today
>Watched a tutorial where a guy just threw an N-Gon at the bottom of his cylinder and actively said "Yeah you're not really supposed to do this, but nobody cares"

It's so weird

you misspelled reducing headcount

Because mandatory overtime is a serious fucking issue and just saying "well other people have it worse" doesn't make it a non-issue.

Attached: I wanna fuck this squash.png (347x462, 214K)

>hold them accountable for it bro by bitching on the internet
If you and anyone else isn't willing to get off your ass and at least picket in front of Blizzard HQ then shut the fuck up and stop hoping others will do something instead of you. I am sick of liberals and conservatives hoping for some change and doing nothing but bitching on the internet.

But they're not unionizing to prevent getting fucked over. More and more often when a game comes out now there is news about how hard the team had to work. They're unionizing to prevent having to work too hard. There are soldiers overseas right now working 12 hours a day with no days off and you don't see articles or them tweeting in mass about how tough work is. People these days are growing more and more afraid of hard work and effort.

they are getting fucked over, though.

journalists aka pedophiles should be in prison
also OP should kill herself

That's because the effort isn't paying off anymore.

Attached: 1545706009719.png (1946x1592, 375K)

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.

they have unions though.

>Comparing an average job to what people in the military do and trying to put them on the same level
This board is fucking retarded.

>people consider their lives so worthless that they are willing to join the army for a country that doesn't give a shit about them
>this means that everybody should consider their lives that worthless

Well as they say, that's what you pay to play the game. I'm sure they're all MORE than welcome to leave and work somewhere else.

Attached: 1520940088244.gif (194x223, 21K)

jesus fucking christ what a boomer post. it even includes muh soljurz

>unionizing video games
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

>it will improve everyone's life except the fat piggy capitalist
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAGAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHGAHAH

Enjoy paying $150 for a game. Enjoy every AAA company expanding their HR and ethics division under union policy #1. Enjoy workers strikes when a company racistly doesn't make enough brown characters.

Holy fuck. This is hilarious.

they admit its not sustainable and the employees are the weakest link here so they're basically acknowledging they're working their employees like slaves and driving them towards burnout at which point they'll be promptly fired and replaced with the latest college graduates.this is obviously deplorable but NPCs like you will defend it by default because you don't like the people arguing against it, and if they don't like something, you automatically like it and would die to defend it

ergo you're a corporate cock sucking drone and should be executed for the good of society

Do Jap companies have crunch because they never bitch about it or is it just expected based on their work culture?

bloggers should forced to be bloggers. watching tech companies gut their ad revenues, and kill their employers; fake unionizing, so they can make social media photo shoots; getting laid off and having their brand sold to some other sucker, only to get a job paying even less somewhere else.

>There are soldiers overseas right now working 12 hours a day with no days off and you don't see articles or them tweeting in mass about how tough work is.
sounds like soldiers are fucking retarded to me bucko

>>Watched a tutorial where a guy just threw an N-Gon at the bottom of his cylinder and actively said "Yeah you're not really supposed to do this, but nobody cares"
>It's so weird
They didn't have half the tech we have today, an n-gon where no one would notice it is overshadowed by the 25k poly count that is the game model

>give me my product! GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME! MUST CONSUME! MUST CONSUME!!!

work culture. Which isn't sustainable on account of how hard they go into it, as it literally kills them.

no because they're all busy trying not to kill themselves, and judging by the suicide epidemic in the armed forces, they can't handle it either

>Why is crunch becoming such a hot topic currently?
It's not. Fuck off.

>just expected based on their work culture?
I'd imagine it s normal considering its the same country where dying on your desk is a average Tuesday for them.

They're basically always on crunch. Especially in the old days. Old Capcom devs have talked about living at the office for months on end.

why do you have no self-awareness

>WHATABOUTABOUTABOUTABOUTWHATABOUTIST
jesus christ, you get your talking points from jon oliver, we get it

they don't have "crunch" as a concept, because it's their default. they've also stopped reproducing and keep committing suicide, so maybe it's not something we should actively fight to prevent. corporations will gladly put us all in the exact same scenario and work us to death if their psyops work and they're given the opportunity

Bunch of faggots complaining about having to type a little faster oh no

the nips have the highest life expectancy on earth, but i too believe dumb things i read on Yea Forums

Except they start screeching about "muh context" every time you try to turn it around on them. Even if the context doesn't excuse their hypocrisy whatsoever.

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.

I mean last time they complained, they had the US army murder them.

People wouldn't complain about crunch as much if they got overtime pay.

Their work culture is too strong.

I don't even play video games except pirated indie games a couple hours on weekends. I make games.

I just find it hilarious that consumers are begging to be fucked over because they care so much about some dyke story writer and her friebds being expendable because millions of people are competing for their job. You're going to subsidize that you understand? You understand union priorities are diversity/social politics today right? You aren't saving the job of the 30 year old engine dev, you're securing the lifestyle of some hack writer, some worthless artist doing boilerplate 3D modeling. These people are expendable because of the competition and they should be.

Attached: 1543522674677.jpg (960x960, 87K)

>source: my ass

>I think thing X is bad due to reasons Y, do you agree or disagree?
>HOW CAN YOU THINK X IS BAD WHAT ABOUT UNRELATED THING Z?

Serious question, why are all internet arguments like this now?

This is something that more people need to know about. It needs to be taught in history class.

Normalfags exist for the sole purpose of running industries into the ground, some companies can handle it, most companies can't.
The ones who do are praised no matter how they did it, the ones who didn't are forgotten

Because it is easier to deflect to something else than to admit you are wrong or address the problem

Your average IRL retard browses the internet more and more these days. It should not be a surprise that this is starting to become the norm.

mmf slrp mmnfffhh slllluurp thank you daddy activision for this opportunity to keep your boots nice and clean mmmh slurrrpppppp oh god i came thank you master

People finally figuring out they work in a lefty communist hell hole and that the middle Americans they scoff at have a better quality of life. Also why they are fleeing the state in mass like locust off to ruin another one.

So conservatives don't care about money? I don't really give a fuck about politics. My loyalty's towards the money I'm paid, not the company. Pay me what I'm due and I'll sleep in the office, bathe with a hose and eat ramen and stale bread.

Because mom and dad aren't around to make sure you behave like a decent person.

I don't disagree with workers coming together to form a strong unit and not get fucked over by (especially american) corporations, but game devs only want to unionize to become unfireable and continue peddling their progressive bullshit while blacklisting anyone that doesn't fellate brown people or trannies
Unions get a bad rep in the US because people abused them, but they have their uses when it's not a free-for-all

Attached: ty2Pmn.jpg (951x840, 90K)

You only have one life

You should be spending that time how you want not squandering it for a paycheck

Attached: 32499CB3-4F1E-44C8-9333-04FFA456ADF1.jpg (456x488, 46K)

i don't think you realize how little of the private sector is unionized. they have no leverage, so they will not be successful in turning the games industry into their paypig. at best some of them will try and get blacklisted, which will be hilarious and i encourage it.

You'll never be a woman.

then the corporations they infest will burn to the ground and usher in the industry collapse we've been waiting for for years, anyway; and from the ashes new developers that exclude these types of people will rise and make good vidya again

Also the fact is most of these companies are located in expensive places, so they need to work their asses off 12 hours a day to be able to rent a 1-room apartment between 6 people. Then again, that's not the company's fault, just american (((lawlessness))) at work

but they actually do get fucked over, all their hard work goes to fucking publishers and CEOs who wipe their ass with the money, while code monkey's snorting adderall and wanting to kill themselves for some forced agenda game everyone will shit on because of race baiting.

libshits hate working they just want cushy jobs and drink coffee.

The only people busy with Hearthstone are the Art Department

Will they collapse in a timely fashion though? EA and Actiblizzard have been cunt companies for decades now and they're still posting record profits

>what if the industry's labor costs were suddenly higher

fortunately for most physical laborers their jobs are being automated away and they won't have to do them soon

Not vidya

Why are Unions good?
>They can improve the quality of life for workers and improve overall productivity through job security

Why are unions bad?
>Becauses SJW trannies kikes brown people progressive leftist jew feminism REEEEEEE

or the ceos and stockholders can take a bit of a paycut, as they more money than they can functionally use.

Neets love work they want the immigrants to leave so they can take their abattoir cleaning jobs

they could vote for people that will expand the housing stock, but they don't want to live with blacks, so they don't.

>I, like any normal person, recognize that corporations are heartless, soulless entities and will abuse and fuck over everyone it possibly can for the sake of profit
>Wait... did... did that stinky liberal just complain about corporations too?
>FUCK I LOVE CORPORATIONS, DUDE, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF WORKING HARD? FUCKING PUSSY WE SHOULD BE LIKE THE JAPANESE! REPEAL THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT NIGGERS FUCK ME HARDER PLEASE

I would rather have a easy job making a good income and being home more than working 40-60 hours a week to spend time how I want.

Unless I’m doing a project that I actually care about work is just a paycheck and I want to minimize the amount of time doing it and maximize the income.

I will never work hard for a faceless company.

Attached: AC3EE244-2982-4B79-A356-6D3B117A6B38.jpg (648x806, 102K)

nope. buying less labor or shopping elsewhere for labor

>my point is valid and superior and needs no debating
>my opposing viewpoint is YELLING and INCOHERENT and MAKES NO SENSE

1/10 see me after class

oh right, I forgot. Being sensible is a no-go.

>Why are unions bad?
Because when a union doesn't have any actual workplace injustices to fight, it basically turns into the mafia.

He's right though, just read the thread

Ironically, a more senior colleague went in-house and today was her last day. She looked so happy mate, the happiest I have ever seen her

I fucked up didnt I

they punish people who move between industries or otherwise have non-traditional life trajectories, even if they are competent

Concession accepted

Attached: 1494375751671.jpg (270x152, 11K)

Wasn't there a story of a car manufacturer or something going broke while the (american) CEO made like 100.000x times what a regular grunt made, then some frenchman bought it, took a paycut (still making millions) and suddenly it was profitable again?

>these people are fighting for your right to organize!
>so don't you go and organize!

>t. never worked a job above retail level in his life

>t. jewish capitalist

>Meanwhile coal miners and other physical laborers are risking their lives and health everyday and arent crying about it.
Are you kidding me? Do you know how many coal miners have ended up filing lawsuits for their horrific health issues and how many others have been dumped on their asses by a failing industry with no other career paths? I grew up in a mining community and knew a guy whose lungs were over 70% solid or some hellish shit and you're here using these people to shitpost about electronic toys

welcome to political discourse in the current era
you are literally not allowed to agree with -the enemy- on any level
Every day the whole clown world thing gets more and more obvious

Funny because blue-collar jobs are very hard to replace because you need robotics, office shit just need a computer and some software

they make firms less competitive and increase the cost of labor, so the only places they remain are monopolies, state, and state-adjacent firms, where the costs can be passed onto people that have no choices. in other cases the firms, barring any state coercion, reallocate the factors of production to avoid these impediments.

>Give yourself up to the collectivist whole at the expense of your personal life. Why are you complaining? What, are you just afraid of working hard??? We'll take care of you, just give us your individual rights and liberties. You don't want to have to pay extra for luxuries anyway right?
Let's play a game of Communist Or Corporate Bootlicker

Doom was made by a few dudes who locked themselves away in a lakeside cabin and basically just crunched away, and never left and did anything but that and eat, sleep, and play DND. And now they're all rock stars. Devs these days just want to go into a cubicle, work a 9 to 5, and clock out but they can say that their job is 'fun' cause they work in the 'games' industry. No passion. Not like Carmack and Romero.

I don't work beyond my given work hours.

>I didn't read a word of your post
>my salt shaker's a dildo disconnected from the game.

>They'd be making *NO* living
If everyone quit McDonald's, the owner of McDonald's could just use his assets and the recipes to sell happy meals from his house. He'd only be able to serve a small number of people. It'd be a local business. But those burgers would sell and he'd live off it.
>EXPLOIT
All work is the exchange of value. The market knows what you're worth.
>there is no association
I didn't say unions, I said regulations. A country's economic freedom score is correlated with its Human Development Index score at .62.
>proof-that-positive-work-cultures-are-more-productive
The problem with this is that they can't tell the direction of causality and could be thinking the tail is wagging the dog. Sure, if you're stressed out, you're going to be worse at your job; however, you'd also be stressed out if you were terrible at your job. Those lower quality organizations could be lower quality because they have these bosses yelling at everyone and making everyone sick, but it's just as likely that they're lower quality because the workers suck and the boss has to yell at them for them to get off their ass and work. As someone who works in a factory that's 50% Hispanic, I am more likely to believe the latter. They complain about everything and throw tantrums when they get in trouble for slacking off.

And I mentioned Hispanics, but what I should really be mentioning is women -- because that's what this is really about. Women are incredibly sensitive and experience more negative emotions than men. On top of that, they're less competent than men. Women being in the workforce would obviously produce these results, and of course, it's a woman writing this talking about "a positive environment."

How's this? Competition leads to innovation, which leads to higher productivity and cheaper products. Can't take the competition, maybe you should be in the kitchen.

Original doom devs worked on their own terms, not a crunch.

Not everyone wants to live like a leech.

Attached: 1549919614203.jpg (640x480, 120K)

wow i can't believe that car firm's margins were so thin they were put into the red by executive compensation. that firm's name? albert einstein.

These are much more legitimate arguments.
While I disagree with them, I appreciate that you made them without resorting to the standard buzzword throwing

>Provides the counterargument to his point in his own post without realizing it
Smooth.

Entrepreneurs and startups can invest every single cent they own into their business to help it succeed. Why cant you invest the same into Activision-Blizzard®, Incorporated, Worker Number 3910921-Gamma? Is it so much to ask?

>only jobs out there are for faceless companies
>what are family businesses that are comfy and wholesome af
>what is starting your own business

Like, get some ambition, man.

>someone makes respectful argument against unions
>HURR I RESPECT YOUR ARGUMENT BUT YOURE NAZIS WHITE SUPREMACISTS ALT RIGHT DRUMPFTARDS SO I JUST KEEP BELIEVING MY OWN LIES
holy shit, calm down tranny.

kill yourself

>The market knows what you're worth
Until the Government puts in a minimum worth and pushes out the low skilled workers (the ones they say they are helping)

nice argument

>Barely even a little grease

If you're gonna pretend you work hard labor at least try

fucking actual boomer shits get off Yea Forums

>get schedules to work as many hours as they need you
>hours go back down afterwards
>???
>profit

Overtime ought to be a privilege, you're working, you're healthy, and you're making money. You get paid for your work and go home, nothing more nothing less just like every occupation. What's the problem with that?

>the owner of McDonald's could just use his assets and the recipes to sell happy meals from his house

The dude would quit his fucking job, hes never made a burger in his life, hes rich as fuck.

If everyone quit, he would just retire with his fat sack of cash. Also this is a stupidly retarded scenario that would literally never happen, millions of people arent going to quit their jobs at once. Whats also retarded is your assumption that someone whose been raking in millions a year would somehow settle for pennies in comparison by shacking up in their fucking house. God damn you're a retard.

Worse thing is i agree with the rest of your shit.

>34th guy on the list of "3d Artists"
I was talking about working in public audit. the crunch is worth it, if you can stick it out for busy season.

You know, they say Yea Forums is invaded by zoomers, but these posts just make me believe it's all boomers around here.

>work construction
>12 hour days with 1 weekend off a month, on day 23 with no break right now
>See silicone valley commies whine about working over 40
They need to check their privilege desu

Attached: download - 2019-06-20T132020.182.jpg (249x202, 8K)

White collar jobs are mostly useless trash that can only exist on the back of actually productive blue collar jobs. Not ALL white collar """work""" is purely parasitic, but most of it is.

>UNIONS PLEASE SAVE ME, I HAVE NO SPINE AND MY JOB CAN BE DONE BY ANY INDIAN OR CHINESE IMMIGRANT WILLING TO WORK LONG HOURS
Imagine having such a plug n play, cog on the wheel job, that you have to literally bring in an entire union to save you instead of having the merits of your talent make you retainable

Attached: 1557874343231.jpg (373x388, 26K)

It's been a hot topic for a few years, now.

I know I sound cringey, yes. I was just saying I'm not working a shitty job because I'm stupid, I just psychologically can't handle a more complex job. I can't handle the possibility of failing. I want to be cool and be a NEET, but I'll lose my house. I was the kid everyone in my class went to for help with their math homework, then I just stopped going. There was one kid smarter than me. He was kind of a beta nerd, but he was friendly to everyone. I don't think anyone bullied him because it would've felt like bullying a child. His dad built roller coasters, I think. My dad was Irish. I went over his house once and slayed his family with a Cartman impression, and it wasn't until I was older that I realized how bizarre that was, since they were such a sterile, PG family, I couldn't picture them watching South Park. I looked him up on social media a couple years ago and he looks like a Chad now. Somehow that made me happy.

>If everyone quit McDonald's, the owner of McDonald's could just use his assets and the recipes to sell happy meals from his house.

No he wouldn't.

The only appeal left in McD's is it's fast, albeit shitty, food. If he attempted an actual restaurant with the same exact recipes/cooking techniques, it'd go under. There are actual burger joints out there already that does better burgers, just you have to sit and wait and pay a few bucks more. McD's is not worth that wait.

No way is that legal

>TFW took time to OSHA 30 and NCCER Core
>already on 6th offer to join local company at 27/hr with a team waiting for me
Why didn't you take the OSHA pill user?

urgh... i'm only 30 and my knees are shot and i can't lift a jug of milk without my back giving out, and i have no savings or degree to fall back on and live in a shoebox, but... *COUGH* but at least... i *HACK* did a real job...

Just because you don't value your own self worth doesn't mean nobody should.
But no, keep doing backbreaking labor for pennies so somebody else can make millions without complaining like a good little drone.