Subtly ruins CRPGs

i would prefer if they had an option to disable these and have the NPCs give a brief directions like “take the south road out of town and follow the river east”

yeah but thats infinitely more time spent on either voice acting or writing quest dialogue, and bethesa simply cannot be bothered to put effort into something like that

Wandering around looking for where to go is not fun in a videogame.

>I want to press X to make something awesome happen!

>gameplay bad, movie good

>One extra line
>infinitely more time

Come on now Todd.

>one extra line

shit man the directions in morrowind are like a paragraph long.

Having your hand held the whole time like you're retarded isn't fun either

>his life is so empty and void he doesn't mind videogames wasting his time with non-gameplay

One extra line for every single time you get any sort of directions in any quest. Not saying Bethesda didn't have the resources to pull this off but it's not as trivial as you put it. Definitely not infinitely more time though.

>C

try again.

What does that have to do with games like Divinity Original Sin?

it doesn't ruin tabletop Rpgs that for sure
C=Computer

I'm not saying I don't want any indication of where to go, I just think something like the way Morrowind did it is the best compromise between holding your hand the whole time and not telling you where to go at all.

Quest Markers should only appear when you're outside of the radius, that way they can push you in the right direction, but once you're close enough, it's up to you to explore. Also fast travel either needs penalties or needs to have an in world explanation. I really like how WOW did it with the flights.

>fixes your game
nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/32695/

pretty much this. if you make a quest that doesn't give functional directions in the text you've made a shit game. saying "go here" and having them put a marker on your map is fucking lazy.

A penalty in food would be good, I think. Makes it easy to imagine that the protagonist had to trek across the map and spend some resources on the way. No food in your inventory - no fast travel.

That's what the old games did. Made food actually useful.

Not everyone has plenty of time to spend 5 hours searching for a fucking cave. Games are not played only by losers and neets like you who live in their mom's basement and can literally read every book in the game. Nowadays game are created for casuals who have families, friends and work, so everything in games is simplified to not take much time. If you want a harder gameplay, just play morrowind infinitely you fucking faggot.

When does Morrowind git gud? I've gotten to Balmora and done some basic bitch work combat (cleared bandit cave near first area, and did that rat exterminator contract for fighters guild). When does this shit get good? Yea it's nice that a lot of characters have a lot of dialogue options to learn about the lore (although a lot of these seem to be repeated word for word by many NPCs) but the combat is still terrible, where I'm missing everything.

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I honestly like GPS in rockstar games, because part of the fun is sort of enjoying the drive on the way.

And yet Breath of the Wild sold gangbusters because people like getting lost and discovering. If you don't like your player exploring, don't make an open world game.

Why can't you enjoy the drive without constantly staring into the minimap to look at the GPS route you dumb fuck?

I feel you bro.

There are probably some combat mods out there that mitigate this, but I don't really know them. Maybe look it up or other anons can help you.
It's doesn't get much better tho, but you miss less as you level up.

Yeah it sold gangbusters because there are many people on the world who are like OP and don't have anything else to do but play games 24/7 or they are japanese faggots who play shitty nintendo games.

you can turn them off

What is even the point of an open world game if you're just going to go from A to B in a linear route?

Should I place a marker of it on the map for you to see?

You’re staring at the mini map anyway for the radar. Even if there was no gps. In fact without the gps I am actually looking at the radar more

>Fuck up every quest he gives me
>"h-he fucked up but I still think hes got potential haha"
You can't lose in this game

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Because it’s fun to just go across the world. It’s comfy and in some games like GTA there’s fun gameplay with driving to get there.

I don't even have the minimap on, just the blips. It just shows you the general direction where your objective is without drawing a whole route for you like you're a complete retard.

While it's true that oblivion had quest markers and they were an issue there as well, oblivion at least still had a good amount of quests that were involved and had you do more than just go to X dungeon and loot it out. Oblivion introduced the problem, but Skyrim is where they took it to its conclusion.

nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/38017
here

You need to actually to have good skill in weapon of your choice. Otherwise you are gonna miss
But it will not change that much at that point if you didin't like it that far.
Try some side quests and wander around in other towns

Remember those rumors for red Dead 2 where if you turned off the map, NPCs would give more directions. Lol

you can't lose in any elder scrolls or 3d fallout game

t. never played morrowind.
That game softlocks in every minor fuck up.

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Literally every faction quest. Would've been great if you could actually fail the guild quest objectives and then the guilds would either put you on probation or kick you out or SOMETHING.

I hate how bethesda designs its games as theme parks where they appeal to the lowest common denominator, and since most people never play games again, they just make it so everything is accessible easily in one playthrough. So everyone ends up becoming thane of every hold, master of every guild, champion of every single daedric lord, and so on.

quest markers aren't that bad
the main issue is that they build the entire game around it and give you some retarded quest marker compass
quest markers should be as vague as possible like pointers on a map rather than marking the exact npc you need to talk to
the compass is biggest issue since it tells you where absolutely everything is rather than having the player explore and find out shit for himself

>clarivoyance bugs half the time
Its like you don't even play the game

These things are perhaps one of the biggest pleb filter in games. In particular when you consider that turning them off basically forces you to explore and go places you might not normally go to on your own, finding and completing quest objectives along the way. The only real problem is the lack of interesting quests or developments in many of the dungeons, but mods do a good job of changing that.

desu the armor pieces thing is what annoys me the most. Half the fun of morrowind was dress-up

If you don't play with spells you're gonna be bored out of your mind. Spellcrafting and enchanting is the most fun part of the game.

That's all true, but you cannot divorce the cause and effect. While it's possible to make good quests in a game with quest markers, what always ends up happen is the quest markers are used as a crutch to get away with shittier and more-simplified quest designs.

It's like bonfire warping in Dark Souls games. Dark Souls 1 had a god-tier map design with the different areas all twisting around each other and interconnecting. Then DaS2 was basically 4 linear paths, and DaS3 was basically 1 linear path. These were both games where they were designed around bonfire warping right from the start, and it shows. Theoretically you could've had bonfire warping and retained the good level design, but that's just not what happens, because the bonfire warping is used as a crutch for shitty level design.

agree, also Morrowind armor´s design was great!

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Fashion is a very important part of games.

>dude just turn them off lmao
every fucking thread, there's this one retard who thinks he's being clever saying this. The games are still designed around quest markers, leading to bland fetchquest designs and a total lack of actual directions, because the quest marker is supposed to fulfill this purpose.Just disabling the markers does NOT solve the problem in any way whatsoever.

bonfire warping is still better than fast travel on demand since you have to actually go to the bonfire
the only bad thing is that the souls games suffer from an excessive amount of bonfires
it wouldn't be as bad if every area had only 1 single bonfire

How do we know you're the REAL OP and not just some imposter?
TELL ME RIGHT NOW, DAMN YOU!!!

What annoys me the most about Skyrim armor is how they didn't give a single fuck about making sure the armor pieces would work together. What basically happens is if you're wearing a full set, it'll work together, but anything else and you'll get disgusting blatant clipping everywhere. Don't even get me started on shit like the Alik'r and mage hoods

The amount of bonfires is also an issue, but a separate one. It's the existence of bonfire warping willy nilly right from the get-go that leads to the newer games not having that cool metroid-style interconnected world.

Stop!
You're going to rustle the jimmies of all the autists here!

If you feel like exploring you'll explore. If you want to progress and forced to explore, it's not fun. It removes player freedom.

That's why level design matters. Dark Souls doesn't have any map markers and you have to wander around and explore yourself to figure things out, but the level design is so good that even though you're wandering around you're still making progress in some way. Skyrim doesn't have level design, without quest markers it is not designed well enough for you to figure everything out without wandering around in wide open, samey looking areas. Instead of designing good levels that interconnect to make an "open world" Bethesda makes a big bland world and slaps quest markers on it. They are lazy devs.

Then again, who the hell asked for VAs anyways? Not to make the obvious comparation, but look at Morrowind or FO1 & 2, fewer voiced lines equals better quality acting. We instead get like 6 dudes voicing +400 npcs with a below average quality.

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Just have the MC write the directions in his quest log or something.

>counting diseases on morrowind
>part of the main quest is making you permanently immune to disease
What are you doing

Why does everyone pretend that exploration is the main thing in open world games? I would say open worlds are more about immersion, roleplaying and just a general joy of being able to do things other than a main story or fool around. If I want to explore, I will, but I wouldn’t say that exploration is the primary appeal of open world games. Besides, I think exploring is more fun when it’s something you do on your own

This. Frustration makes get tired of a game really quickly. Not everyone is up to be invested to be wandering around for hours to have little progress. And by not everyone I mean virtually no one

>immersion and roleplaying when you have literally a compass over your head telling you where places are that you never went to or even know about, the exact location of the npc for the quest you are doing

Quest markers make a world more realistic, means they don’t have to put dumb, unnatural landmarks that are clearly just there to aid you.

>this is your mind on zooming

t. retard with nothing else going on in his life but his roleplaying in a videogame

ZOOM
O
O
M

>Playing Skyrim for the first time back when it comes out
>Get to the first village after the tutorial
>Get that quest from the shopkeeper to find the golden claw
>His sister comes outside with me and gives me directions to the barrow
>Holy shit
>Immediately go into the options and disable quest markers
>Edit the .ini to disable the compass completely
>Go back to game
>Not a single other quest in the entire game gives you directions like that
>A lot of quests don't even give you a specific name for where you have to go
>"I lost this thing in a cave I'll mark it on your map"
>mfw

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t. user pretending he doesn't even play games while he shitposts on Yea Forums literally a all day

>anons actually want to LARP in a TES game
neo-Yea Forums is real

>subtly

>Then again, who the hell asked for VAs anyways?

no one. its AAA devs pandering to an audience that only exists on spreadsheets.

there isn't an IQ low enough for this post

I play a game to progress through it. No wander around like a retard wasting time.

>zoomers think Skyrim invented quest markers

>If I want to do something it means I have nothing else in my life
>There should not be roleplaying in a roleplaying game, only combat
lyl

>having the attention span of a fucking 3yo

>Boot up game
>opening cutscene
>Your Winner!
>trophy.jpg
>Excellent, progression went well, good game
>uninstall

>"I lost this thing in a cave I'll mark it on your map"
That's what people would actually do though.

>shitposts all day on Yea Forums
>complains about wasting time
supreme brainlet

Skyrim is really an interesting game when it comes to pathfinding but also puzzles. The claw quest is the perfect example when it comes to wasted potential. The moment you figure it out how it works you realize how big a letdown it is and how much better it could have been. The whole game has this hype culture about it, whereas the game itself is a really basic buggy mess, wich is very bare bones and simplistic, and you need a fuckton of modding to make it a pleasing experience. Simply put: its an RPG for those who shouldn't play RPGs.

>strawman fallacy
I win that easily.
>getting frustrated for lack of progress on a shitty game is being 3 yo
Imagine being this retarded
>literal nonsense greentext
Step it up.
>moving the goalposts
NEXT
Fuck Im smart at this.

woah there buster my point is that you are retarded and you complain about "wasting time" when all you do is waste time shitposting on Yea Forums thank you for proving my point

Skyrim is the best, most meta RPG ever. It's an RPG that lets non-gamers and "ironic" nerds pretend to be real gamers by pretending they're playing some hardcore RPG.

I think they're useful as long as you get to set them yourself instead of the game doing it automatically.

>game has a minimap
>spend 90% of the game looking at the corner of the screen

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As the OP and a fireman, I feel like you can trust me.

Still better than j"rpg"s

>When does Morrowind git gud?
It doesn't. You have to remember that you're on Yea Forums. Morrowind was a "New" idea in the time it came out and still holds up today for people who are fond of it, but no one, and I mean NO ONE has played it fresh in the past 5 or 10 years and liked it.
It's a dated game with dated gameplay.
Yea Forums only loves it because it's a shitty janky game that the general public dislikes.
Literally never play any games this garbage community recommends or jerks themselves off over, since they're almost always universally shit.

>Look at map
>Okay I have to left, right, right, left to get to the next town
>Do it

You have to have some kind of brain problem if you need to look at a minimap.

Wasting time doing something you enjoy is completely different and you know it. Wandering around looking at a looping running animation while no progress is being made is the wasted time I'm talking about.

It always has more information than looking at the screen, it also exactly tells you when to turn and where

I played it for the first time last year and loved it. The openness of it made a strong impression on me right away.

>Very early in the game
>Join the Imperial Legion
>First job they give me is to acquire some land permit from a widow
>She says she wont give it to me unless I clear out some mine full of giant insects
>The biggest of the insects in the back kick my ass
>Fuck this
>Kill her and take the permit
>Quest completed

In Skyrim she would have been an essential NPC and unkillable.

>Needing something to tell you exactly when and where to turn

Just turn the minimap off and stop being a brainlet.

W R O N G

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I just turn the quest markers off and check my map, since most quests add the location on your map so I can walk, I will turn them on of what I'm looking for isn't immediatelly obvious like some asshole NPC not being where they usually are.
By the way did you know following quest markers make you dumber? The part of your brain that makes it easier to remember landmarks gets underutilized since you don't need to know where you are going or what's around.

This. I tried playing skyrim a few years ago with markers turned off and no teleporting. It was literally impossible to navigate on smaller missions and some missions have you walk literally from one end of the map to another just to hear 15 seconds of dialogue, then back again.

They build this massive fucking world and then they actively work to get you not to look at it.

I too love running around a patch of low poly dirt until you find the right specific spot that's not indicated at all in the journal

I'm not sure I could mark out the location of a specific cave in the wilderness, if I was some kind of medieval turnip farmer and had never seen the world from higher up than where I stand. It would be hard for me even now with accurate satellite images. I would just tell them it's near that lake or something

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Cool but the game itself is still retarded.

As graphics get better I feel like quest markers almost feel necessary due to insane amounts of detail and stuff on the screen at once.

>dude just gimp yourself for no reason

This is why I turn off minimaps

Only when the director didn't consider including proper cues and guidance.

Why even play the game at all? Just watch someone do a perfect speedrun of it on youtube or you're gimping yourself.

>All that flavor text
Are you implying that's good? Divinity: Original Sin 2 did the same thing but still had a quest marker on the exact building or person you're supposed to talk to.

>try to kill random npc
>he kneels
>essential for no appearent reason.
>not even on any main quest

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Seethe more, nu.

>nu
Thanks for proving my point, senpai.

I rather follow a marker than read the journal multiple times and roam around the area it vaguely mentions only to get fucking bored and google it, like in Morrowind.

Knowing where to go when the game wasn't built to be played without a minimap isn't being smart, it's being clairvoyant.

Literally just look at the map and try to remember it in your head for more than 30 seconds you fucking spaz.

What, that you have to have nostalgia about fortnite to have good standards about video games?

You're missing that you are playing an RPG you fucking zoomer

It's a quest log? It logs stuff you hear about the quest. Each line is something you've learned by talking to a guy, and they're pretty concise

You're missing the whole fuckin point if you think that's different. You're supposed to be navigating using the world, not google maps.

I'll take compass over a minimap everyday

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i use quest markers to see if a game is worth playing or not

>only to get fucking bored and google it
Aren't you still reading directions in that case too? What is even the difference

>subtly
How about neither

both are shit, new vegas surprisingly works good enough w/o objective markers, only a few quests are retarded without

Directions in morrowind were mostly ok, sometimes they were really bad and misleading though. I sometimes felt like they didn’t test them all out after writing them.

It is actually pretty fun to play if you play it in a brain dead non-gamer style. Just rush through the game killing everything like fps.

Clearer directions.

>sometimes they were really bad and misleading though
I can't think of a single one

>tfw newfags keep calling smellovision batman vision

but its the same thing
just a different format

How clear does it need to be? Follow this road, turn here, go to the thing you see. That's pretty much all the directions in the game

no?
one gives you a vague direction, the other tells you the way like a gps

If conversations with NPCs had improved at the same rate as world sizes have over the last 20 years, we'd be living large bros.

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One mages guild quest where you had to find a cave called Punabi. The directions were bad

>subtly
good description, most people don't even realize the harm and think it's a good feature

Both get you watching some tertiary HUD element instead of on the actual game. Both get you to avoid being engaged with the game world.

For example finding that Umbra fuckface orc hidden in a mountain.
The journal says hes outside of town on a hill. He is at the top of a mountain. Not a hill. A mountain. Theres hills around the town aswell. But hes not at a hill. Hes on a mountain. You have to follow a shitty path you can barely see on to a mountain, not a hill, like the ones in the journal or around town, a mountain. Thats where the orc is btw. A mountain. Not a hill

Voiced lines were a mistake. Or then the game needs to be a manageable size so that you can still have good dialog for each of them. I kinda like how for example Planetscape Tournament did it though, the characters had voices which gave them some personality, but most dialog was just text

people have jobs and lives to attend to, can't spend 4 hours looking for an objective on one single poorly designed quest.

The only mountain on the map is the volcano in the middle

Would be cool if you participating in a guild would inplicate in hostility from the other.
Why would the wariors guild accept the head of the thieves guild ?

This entire thread is a giant zoomer filter

He is hidden at the east of town on a small peak with some rocks at the top. With a small unseen road leading up to it. Look it up. I levitated all around the town for 15 minutes and didnt see him. Had to see a video of it.
SO DONT YOU DARE TAKE THE MARKER AWAY FROM ME. GOT IT1?

A quest for house redoran where you have to find a merchant who got lost in an ash storm. I remember the directions being really shitty, the cave was like right near the town but the directions made it sound like it was a lot further up the road. It was something like “a cave between molag mar and ale-ruhn” and I spent awhile trying to find it

The absolute state of zoomers.

I'm just not sure what you count as a mountain. I remember Umbra but I don't remember the area being particularly high up. It's up a cliff basically, I would personally call that a hill rather than a mountain

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facts

you've never played any piranha bytes game have you

Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Does This Ruin CRPGs Hahahaha Nigga Just Turn Off Objective Markers Like Nigga Use The Menu Haha

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You mean Oblivion and Skyrim's fucking FPS "combat" is what ruined CRPGs.
Love how all you fucking idiot children cry about Morrowind's combat when IT IS LITERALLY HOW A FUCKING RPG IS SUPPOSED TO GODDAMN WORK.

I fail to see the argument in this.
Put a marker on him

I'd rather eat pussy than ass, but I still wouldn't be getting laid

Enjoy your three copies of Skyrim

Morrowind had a problem when it came to directions for things that were close. The NPCs tended to imply things were further away than they were.

Skyrim is a great game, and you'll realize that truth when you buy those three copies, degenerate.

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>Put a marker on him
What do you mean?

Kill yourself and die late

sounds like me playing Dynasty Warriors

there was enough shit to do in morrowind that if you were stuck looking for sulipund you could fuck off and come back to it later or when you were finally ready to look it up. weak argument, bro.

>Dark Souls
Stopped reading there.

>immersion and roleplaying
What even are these concepts...?

Can you mark on my map where I'm supposed to do this? A retarded zoomer like me can't be bothered to use its brain.

>CRPG
is there a more brainlet definition for a genre than this?

>muh story makes it an RPG
lolno

>unnatural
The fucking leap you're making. They just have to put landmarks. In most games there are fuckin none in 99.99999999999999% of the map. In Skyrim every cave entrance looks identical, this is not the case IRL.

keep crying westacuck

Name an Open World game where the map actually fucking matters and you have to engage with the world. I'm talking about shit like having to pay attention to geography, weather, time of day etc

Don't say BotW.

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>real world has actual landmarks that help you navigate
>having a fucking little arrow appear in your visual field that tells you where to go is more realistic than having landmarks
you might actually be the stupidest person currently browsing this board. i'm dead serious.

Hopefully Death Stranding

your guy carries a map around, marking it with a circle of red X is immersion breaking you retard. Game's still shit but this is just whining. I mean, your employer wants you to do the job effectively and fast, so why wouldn't they mark it if your character shows the map? map is full of red-xes? buy a new one for the price of a lunch.

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isn't immersion breaking*

> (You)
Stopped reading there.

BoTW

Open world ruined CRPGs and quest markers ruined open world.

Yeah bro just let people scribble on my map in the Middle Ages that is hand drawn and probably cost a fortune, no problem.

Also
>people make Xs on maps with god precision

I haven't had as much fun in ages as I've had in Sea of Thieves. Yes, that abortion of a game now actually has content. And the best content has you scouring the seas based on vague information and puzzles, making it feel like a proper adventure.
The only compass you have is a real one. And it always points north.

Red Dead Redemption has the dankest maps

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>be dumb warrior man
>cast fireball
>become head of the mage college
So Easy A Caveman Can Do It

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>don't say the game that do everything that I'm asking for

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>oblivion does literally the same thing years before skyrim
>no one bats an eyelash

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Yeah it's crazy how they can't be bothered to actually tell you where your destination is in words. Like if for part of a quest you have to find a certain NPC can't they just say "you need to find X person, he works at Y place".
Or better yet have a system where you can talk to people and ask for directions. It wouldn't even be that many voice lines to record, just have it so you can only ask guards and then give the guards a generic response like "he works at the general store, at the north of the town". And even if it did end up being a lot of lines, this is a big budget AAA game, they should be able to do something like this. And that's assuming voices are even necessary, which they're not

Everyone also complained about Oblivion but you don't remember that because you're a child.

Oblivion is worse than Skyrim in every way

I did. When it came out.

Real OP here btw

The game is designed around quest markers, nobody gives directions for anything

>Devs dont give a shit about these things, why should you?

elder scrolls isn't the middle ages retard. there is literally magic spells to turn iron into gold.

Honestly, I kinda forgot Oblivion did that too. I never could play it too much because the level scaling made my skin itch.

>they got rid of the cast magic button in skyrim
>always had to equip/re-equip every time you wanted to use magic
Why Todd WHY THE CAST KEY FROM OBLIVION WAS PERFECT

SOON

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Fpbp, there is no such thing as a cRPG with good gameplay

The stupid thing is that I imagine the idea behind everything being voiced is "immersion" but in the end when you can't even have NPCs give you basic directions to where you want to go the game becomes infinitely less immersive. And if there was no voice acting they could write more dialogue, instead of hearing the same exact dialogue every time you talk to an NPC they could give each one a bunch of different lines

>Le gameplay means only combat meme
Ebin

True,especially the whole adventure element. Always liked to wander around searching for the location that i'm supposed to find. Sure i can still do it but it's so much "easier" to just give up and look where it is exactly

"It just works."™®

if a cave is in the middle of the forest how would you write directions to that cave without arbitrability arranging the trees in an unnatural way?

IMO mandatory voice-acting was one of the most damaging things to ever happen to RPGs. Writing text is cheap, getting it all voiced is expensive. Not to mention with text you can have it scripted with fill in the blanks and lots of variations depending on the circumstances, that isn't really doable with voice acting unless you have them voice every single permutation of a piece of dialogue.

IMO the perfect solution would be something where the characters all speak random-generated gibberish that sounds like a fake language, while you just read subtitles underneath. That way the characters can emote and there's just more visual/auditory stimulation going on while you read the subtitles. Sort of like what KOTOR does a lot of the time.

Because people are so used to Bethesda's shit-tier lmaosandbox approach that they don't even think to consider that there are other better ways of doing open-world.

Have you ever tried to get immersed and roleplay in Skyrim? You have to mod the shit out of it and even then there are so many problems. Skyrim is not an immersive game, far from it

Show me the spell that create spells and the mages the provide that service for free, and you have a point.

meanwhile, in a good game
>map integrated into the world, its not a menu outside of gameplay
>map is an actual map
>compass is an actual compass
>in order to mark things on the map, you take your your binoculars, and focus on them, and mark them that way - meaning you have to yourself see and spot and recognize things for them to appear on the map

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>spell that create maps

>the characters all speak random-generated gibberish that sounds like a fake language, while you just read subtitles underneath
That reminds me of Banjo-Kazooie, god I loved that shit.

Pretty based.

At least Oblivion has interesting quest.
Skyrim shit the bed with radiant "pesk" system that's just repetitive and rapes Skyrim of immersion.

now this seems interesting, tell us more

I sure wish someone this based would compete with Bethesda.

>level scaling made my skin itch
I think some of the fun of the game is exploiting glitches to become insanely powerful.

IMO the one flaw with Exodus' map is the magic marker perfectly showing your location. I'd prefer it if you actually had to puzzle out where you are and where you're going

Nothing more to tell, the map is an item that you pull out, the same way you pull out a gun. You visually see the map, and whats on it, in first person.
By the way, the crafting is also like that. In order to craft some health kit during battle, you need to find cover, pull out the bag, craft, and apply the medicine, all in real time. Quest log too. These aren't menus, they are items that you see in first person.

Attached: objectives.jpg (1920x1080, 129K)

I think MGSV struck a good balance with how instead of quest markers, it told you to go to a particular zone. You might not know exactly where the thing you're looking for is, but you're told the general vicinity.
But of course, it's always important to remember that the problem with quest markers isn't the markers themselves, but that they're used as a way of doing really lazy fetchquest designs rather than having actual RPG quests that involve talking to NPCs, figuring out clues, doing investigating, etc.

>Also fast travel either needs penalties or needs to have an in world explanation.
I think the real problem with fast travel in games like skyrim is that they simply don't really cater whatsoever to someone who might not want to just magically teleport everywhere. You're givein some carriages to the major cities, but that's it. The real problem is that Skyrim is full of shit-tier quest designs that have you running back and forth across the entire fucking map. Like the Clavicus Vile quest where you clear our his shrine south of Helgen in the southern portion of the map, and then you're told to go all the way to the other side of the map past solitude near the vampire castle to fetch an axe, and then go all the way back. Doing this without fast travel is just fucking tedious, but that's what happens when you have quests where your objectives are littered all across the map instead of being nearby.

New Vegas did a much better job of being playable without quest markers because most quests took place centered around certain areas, so you could hang out in an area and do all the quests for that area, rather than all the quests requiring you to trek 2 hours away and 2 hours back.

no no, i meant the game in general.
Apparently the game is called metro exodus?

>>turn off compass
>game is 100 percent build around question markers giving you no hints otherwise
great, now I have no idead where to go anymore

AGREED, but also I see why its there. Game had a dedicated marketing budget, it expected to see sales. Can't make sales if you dick slap the casuals that hard.

I don’t like the BotW approach either. They make it too easy to see things in the distance and this kills a lot of the feeling of discovery. Have NPCs give good directions with landmarks instead of just letting you see everything.

>Witcher 3
>press button to find blood trail and win the quest
>KCD
>look for bloodtrail yourself since it is good implemented and actually visible and you can interact with it without "press X for awesome"

The game itself isn't a big open world. You ride a train, and you stop here and there, and each stop is a medium sized "open world" location. Kind of like how The Witcher 3 didn't have one big open world, rather several medium sized open world(s).
Theme wise, its russian themed Fallout. Gameplay wise, its like the new Far Cry games, sorta. Slower and less wacky. FPS with collecting things, exploring areas. Worth playing. Very atmospheric if you get into it rather than power through. Not STALKER tier.

but you can turn them off???

You cocksuckers can't even define what a RPG fuckin' IS can you, you fuckin' NIPPLES...!

>I need you to go to this one place, I'll mark it on your map.

Witcher 3 should've had some Hunter's Potion or something that when you drink it blurs all of the world, but emphasizes and grows blood and smells. More in theme than Batman Vision.

Reminder that the best form of level design is when you have a series of small-scale hubs densely filled with content, rather than having one massive sandbox open world with random shit scattered about to permanently stimulate your OCD. Games like Deus Ex, for instance. Settings like Hell's Kitchen and Hong Kong were terrific. You were experiencing these smaller districts of larger cities in the background. You actually felt like you were in a massive city even if you were only in a small section of it, and it was so much better than the bethesda approach of having a giant field with no true design to it, and then having """"cities"""" that have 5 houses and 8 NPCs.

metro has a compass literally pointing you in the correct direction all the time

No, it's permanent - like nipple.
If you're suffering from body dysmorphia and remove nipple, it's still obvious that there was nipple.

Based, if VTMB2 is shit I will jump off a cliff.

so pretty much like withcer 1 too iirc.
all in all, sounds interesting might need to look into it more closely. there's only so much i can learn from Yea Forums about the game.

no, and if you mod it out it becomes obvous that the game is not made to be played without it.

A quest marker is good, FAGGOT.
Just, like, fucking kill yourself, DUDE!

Why not include Arena?

It's pretty much done at this point desu.

But compass markers make the game more like a movie. Youre not using your brain anymore you're just mindlessly walking to the compass marker in between the fights.

the entire game can be played without quest markers.
what quests do you think are impossible without them?

the entire appeal of an elder scrolls game is having an entire province to explore with varied environments and cities and walking in between all of them.
live another life in another world is their design.
fuck off with your hub games.
don't bring that shit into elder scrolls.

for the simple fact that its shit and fuck you

"Hub games" and "open-world games" are merely the same thing.
You're just a faggot with a tight ass.

Nearly every quest because you're rarely told the name of which draugr ruin you clear out

Or the bandit camp to clear out.

or the animal cave to clear out

you are literally told every time retard
>A group of bandits has been causing trouble in . I've been asked to clear out .
>A group of draugr has been causing trouble in . I've been asked to clear out .
Objective 10: Kill the leader of

Miasmata.

There are sign posts along the roads leading you to everywhere you troglodyte

Why did nobody ever complain about the radar in GTA?

You're never told where to go though. Its always "go to cave x and kill y"
There's no way to find things without looking at the marker

the location icon is on your map.
bring up your map and navigate there yourself.

not interested in discussing how realistic things are in an alternate universe fantasy game w/ niggers and dragons

GTA is fur dumb persons. Markers were in GTA from the start.

>Go to something something cave/tomb
That kind of shit isn't going to be marked on signposts, and even if it is, it could be accross the whole map. Stop pretending to be retarded to make a point, it just makes you look more retarded.

GTA is a different type of game, you just want to get fast into some action or run amok. And for modern GTAs it's not immersion breaking, quite the opposite (everyone has GPS).
There is also no fast travel and like some user said the car ride alone is part of the fun.

>World is literally middle ages with dragons and magic tacked on
>Why are you talking about the realism of like navigation or smithing or stuff bro? A wizard did it ok!?

Every time someone tries to make this dumb ass argument. People want some believability in their world/games/movies even if it happens to have dragons in it.

Taxis are fast travel

I haven't played a GTA past Vice City. Can't remember if Taxis were in it, if yes then I never used them.

You do know it was a reference to what Pete "FEV Reject" Hines once said as response to criticism of a certain Fallout 4 quest?

there's an easy fix, have a compass but only point it to the vague area you need to go, not the exact point. I think you still need some sort of guidance though, especially with gam worlds as big as they are now

>Entire front facing map, You can see the entire terrain head
>Directional markers, You are only shown a marker while not seeing what's ahead.

Game maps show you the entire fucking area ahead of you AND show you the direction you need to go in.
How the fuck are the directional markers any easier and have you explore less?

Attached: 1534480876835.png (267x215, 133K)

the NPCs always say "I'll mark it on your map". For immersion you're supposed to open up your map, memorize the route, and follow it

no, I didn't user.

We're all laughing at you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

yeah but it's lame that you can jump over very steep mountains, swim down waterfalls and whatnot to get where you want. would it be hard to program in any game, to have rocks MASSIVELY increase fall damage as you are getting skinned alive? or water currents keeping you below the surface to kill you? Maybe poisonous plants and swamp pits you need to struggle out of. Make wilderness deadly again.

Attached: food2dishless.jpg (608x380, 84K)

now that would be kinda cool. Imagine an open world game with scenes like pic related.

Attached: neverending_310.jpg (1268x540, 59K)

Isn't Kenshi like that?

Thank you for reminding me of my classroom's cryfest. How about hazards in food and buildings? your guy literally eats CONSERVED FOOD FROM A ANCIENT TOMB. best case scenario it's just very stale and bland, worst case, the plague. Also, it's a good idea to cover your mouth in a cave or dusty dungeon, especially a moldy undead one. owh, and don't get me started on the many fun wayes ice has for you! Icicles unironically kill people, so don't shout under one. Troppic hazards.... falling through a thin layer, a survival RPG would be kinda cool.

Unless it's a radiant quest, they always namedrop the dungeon and show where it is on your map. Frankly, this makes sense. If you have a map and they know where it is and what it's called, why should someone not point at the map and tell you "mark it here, this is where it is"

The compass marker is basically just to save you the trouble of opening the map over and over to check which way you are going to get there.

They also have those treasure maps for people who do want to explore and find things without a quest marker.

Skyrim has plenty of problems, but I don't think this ruined the game. You already can't fast travel to anywhere you haven't been already.

>completely broken and dead mod page for the old version of the game
Woah! nice find.
nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/159
Use this instead

damn, thats a shame
it sounds good, but i dont like the asians

tripping hazards*

>Kenshi
>released 2013

wait what, I guess it flew under the radar

>another thread of autists complaining about quest markers

exploration is shit in cRPGs too, quests are sometimes good but not usually. and yes combat is a huge part of gameplay

Quest markers are gay and shit and stupid and I hope the Jews get gassed again.

>lazy game design is ok

>How about hazards in food and buildings? your guy literally eats CONSERVED FOOD FROM A ANCIENT TOMB. best case scenario it's just very stale and bland, worst case, the plague.

That would be funny. Also the supposed curses of tombs in Egypt were just the mold and bacteria that made People sick after they raided them.

Skyrim isn't a RPG of any sort.
No, a more accurate label would be a CPG (Character Progression Game).

Quest markers make sense in this context. As you said it’s just showing what direction it’s in, which your character would already know if it was marked on your map. There’s nothing wrong or unimmersive about it. If something is marked on your map then obviously you will know the general direction

I still think quest markers shouldn’t exist in dungeons though, or for NPCs. Just for towns, settlements and the location of a dungeon, if someone marks it for you

I prefer Morrowind over skyrim, played both late so no nostalgic bias... but, was morrowind a pain when it came to finding shit. I remember I had to find these flowers for this Khajiit mage in the mage guild, jesus fucking christ I killed that bitch as I couldn't find the place and felt bamboozled.

Yeah, Pharaoh's curse was a bacterium. I wonder what it fed on to be there...

>I still think quest markers shouldn’t exist in dungeons though, or for NPCs. Just for towns, settlements and the location of a dungeon, if someone marks it for you

I think I could live with that, it would make sense. Also make it optional if I want more immersion and look at the map myself.

>quest to find a ruin or dungeon
>quest giver doesn’t know quite know where it is
>tells you to go to a nearby town near the ruin and marks that town on your map so you can ask for better directions there
Always love that

unbased and retardpilled
I even stumbled upon him by accident because I saw the path to him and thought that it could lead somewhere interesting.
And if you even levitated around to find him, then you must truly be blind, retarded, or both.

These threads stopped for a long time when Yea Forums realized that the fags that make these threads are actually bigger casuals than the people who don't mind mini maps or quest markers.
>someone makes a "quest markers ruined large games thread" months back
>people say they really didn't
>OP and the like claim they ruin games because it makes players only focus on one objective
>posters started pointing out that open world RPGs with markers tend to get good reviews from casuals because they can go anywhere ignoring the markers and can make detours to any interesting quests or landmarks they come across. In addition, quest markers don't indicate useful armors, unique weapons, or stranger quest givers, so players still have to take their own initiative to explore
>thread dies and no "quest markers ruined games thread" for ages

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I honestly like following a quest marker but realizing my way is blocked by large mountains or something and I have to find a way around, and have to use the roads or something. Just makes it immersive to try to find a path, I feel like I have to navigate as the NPCs would.

>I wonder what it fed on to be there...

Molds can create toxins and just like dark and damp enough places, and some bacteria can be just dry and exist for a long ass time until a fresh host comes. Now imagine what kind of stuff undead in a fantasy setting carry.

There was also that laughably bad Witcher video where the guy complained about map markers ruining the game but later admitted that he kept getting lost when he turned it off and the NPC's sometimes gave the wrong directions.

the first part is really creepy though, what about other dormant places we dig into? maybe diseases from loooooong ago that got frozen over and are permafrost now? Yeah, no thanks. we got enough shit :^)

This. Quest markers are just in-game indicators of the directions your characters received. It's still up to the player to traverse the map and find the best way to get there.

Balmora is marked on your map at the start of Morrowind. It’s basically the same as a quest marker.

The arguments don't address the fact that quest markers ruin quests and encourage lazy world design. Also they clearly discourage exploration, as my own experience running around looking at google maps have shown.

>Character Progression
you know thats one of the most important parts of any rpg right?

>what about other dormant places we dig into? maybe diseases from loooooong ago that got frozen over and are permafrost now?

that's what I like to think about when I want to freak myself out

> he kept getting lost when he turned it off and the NPC's sometimes gave the wrong directions

that kinda sounds like the fault of the game and what we are talking about

if I want to freak myself out I'd think about China, Russia and the West bullying eachother and it going wrong.

If you use your (IRL) brain, you can find a way to get better with weapons much quicker

Quest markers encourage exploration in my opinion, because they inspire you to follow that general direction. Without a quest marker I feel like you are more inclined to stick to roads and landmarks. I like following a direction and going off roads