From a security standpoint this has to be the dumbest design of a city ever. Totally indefensible.
This is supposed to be the prime jewel of morrowind yet this is all the nigger elves could come up with.
How do they explain lore-wise that this city wasn't taken by imperials yet? All they need to do is sail up 5-6 ships and bombard it while soldiers swarmed the swamps and raided once the fires started.
Really Stupid.
lets not forget too that the fucking PALACE is the thing closest to the water
just how dumb are these dunmer
dunmer more like DUMBER am i righT?
All Vivec has to do is decide to say fuck it and let Baar Dau crash into the city while he fucks off to nowhere.
Not only is the city destroyed, but so is the continent.
Which is exactly what happens.
You can't take Vivec out of the equation really either, since he's essentially tied to the city. So you've got the TES equivalent of a nuclear deterrent. Chuck in an entire city's worth of mages, and Ordinators, and the City would be hard won at best. Then again, Ebonheart is literally 10' away, so who knows.
My money is on Vivec, since you've got an army of religious nutjobs all over the continent as well.
There is a literal god living there
OK but whats their tax policy
It's because they have the equivalent of Dr. Manhattan living in the center of it all.
either way, vivec loses
either he gives up and leaves so the imperials can take the city without causing too much damage or he lets the meteor fall and kills everyone, but mostly his own people just to deny the imperials a city but all that would do is weaken the dunmer in the process
Can't take a city if it's just a crater filling up with lava from the Red Mountain.
>All they need to do is sail up 5-6 ships and bombard it while soldiers swarmed the swamps and raided once the fires started.
Morrowind isn't an island and Vivec isn't even its capital. The game itself just takes place in Vvardenfell, but the location of Vivec within the entire province is pretty deep in the mainland. Any attempts to sail to it would either have to originate from one of Morrowind's own ports or it would give them a ton of advance notice by sailing from Skyrim through the Sea of Ghosts.
thats the point
imperials would consider that a huge victory if vivec, the capital, and all the shit inside was destroyed
IIRC, the entire continent is part of the Empire anyway. There'd be little point in taking it. Though I think the city has some kind of special immunity or some shit.
its still a terribly designed city
>not taking your boat from cyrodiil all the way around black marsh and the eastern coast of Morrowind, then sailing back down to get o Vivec
It's not like they have this huge fucking coast they can spot you from. Ebonheart is practically in the Imperial city.
Yeah but what do they eat?
There is giant farmlands north of them
No , you're the retard. They have a living god protecting the city. He can just move Baar dau and squash the fleet with it.
Kwama eggs from the mines are the staple throughout. Mostly that and scuttle, hound meat, saltrice and whickwheat grain products from the nearby plantations, and ash yams.
>its still a terribly designed city
That's kind of acknowledged in the game though. With the "locals" remarking to the player how easy it is to get lost. Even necessitating a "guide to Vivec".
I'll admit from a development standpoint though it's pretty terribly designed, and the "lore" about it being hard to navigate is just excuses.
I do gotta say though
It's kind of neat after playing the game to know exactly where every little place you need to go to in the city to get shit done. Kind of embodies that feeling of being a foreigner to that land, but slowly picking up life there and becoming part of the populace. It's nice from a conceptual point of view anyway. I like the maze of a city, but I can understand others not really liking the layout.
Can't Vivec just think an invading army out of existence if he wanted to? Or at the very least, move baar dau over the imperial city?
>squash the fleet with a rock less than the size of a house
while he plays wackamole with the fleet, the imperials have invaded from the swamp and are taking over the city
he loses anyway
baar dau is simply not big enough, vivec is struggling to maintain it at that height, he could take out a few houses but thats it
OP here i dunno how it felt ingame i never played it, just judging from the views from the top, no one could defend this garbage
>baar dau is simply not big enough, vivec is struggling to maintain it at that height, he could take out a few houses but thats it
Baar Dau has all the same velocity that it's always had. It's just suspended. The minute that it's let go, that shit is impacting hard.
Smaller meteors have done worse than destroy something the size of Vivec.
>Can't Vivec just think an invading army out of existence if he wanted to?
No. That's non-canon CHIM bullshit.
Not him but it was hurtling towards the city at great velocity, and it wasn't slowed by magic it was just magically frozen. When it was released it still had all of the energy as if it was moving at extreme velocities.
if thats true then how could he use it on the fleet without destroying the city also?
It's not really meant to be a place to defend from.
It's a city built for one purpose. To worship Vivec. Everything else that goes on in the city is tertiary, and is just the shit that sprouts up anywhere you'd have civilization.
He can't.
The rock would destroy the whole city if it fell. It DID do that.
Put it far enough that the waves would smash the fleet but not the city, or at least waves that would smash the fleet INTO the city/coastline.
That actually IS the kind of shit TES lore writers are occupied with
>all they need to do is sail ships through shallow waters filled with protruding rocks
so then the imperials would succeed in taking out one of if not the most important city in morrowind
Why would they want to do that in the first place. Morrowind was a part of the empire. And now it's fucking destroyed
did you forget you arrived by ship when you start the game? are you retarded?
There wouldn't be a Morrowind to take. Or at least Vvardenfell.
If thier intent is to seize and occupy to actually own and use that land, then having it be a crater isn't going to help at all. If they want to completely destroy the contintent, then sure. They'd also have to deal with public opinion and shit like that. I'm sure a lot of Dunmer all over the empire wouldn't be too thrilled.
Not at vivec city.
That's exactly why no major cities have ever historically been located near the sea and swamps are just begging for soldiers to run through without issue.
Idiot.
Iirc Vivec city was obliterated because vivec disappeared and couldn't be assed to keep Baar Dau floating anymore, and the shockwaves from that caused Red mountain to erupt, which destroyed all of Vvardenfell and most of northern Morrowind.
If Vivec is so great, why did we need the Nerevar?
>the inner sea
yes im sure it would be terribly difficult
Location, nigger. If they're in a position where they can easily reach Vivec with a fucking fleet, let alone an army, then the rest of Morrowind must already be in ruins.
based
Nerevar was the voice of reason and of the people. Nigga was Hortator for a reason.
they dont have to take anything else in morrowind, as others have said, they can bait vivec into destroying all of vvardenfall if they get him to drop the meteor
>He thinks Morrowind is just Vvardenfell
Kek
>they dont have to take anything else in morrowind
Then where are they attacking Vivec from? If you're at war with Morrowind then it's deep in enemy territory. Are they airdropping their force from a Dwemer blimp?
>Nerevar was the voice of reason and of the people
He is Azura's champion, not the people's.
All the tribes and houses seemed to like him.
Everyone loved Nerevar. The ashlanders, the house Dunmer, Azura, Dagoth Ur, everyone except the piece of shit Tribunal. Vivec had it coming.
he lost access to the heart and presumably without it he was either unable to use or his powers were countered by dagoth ur in some manner
>ingame map vs fanart
by sea of course, its not that hard to get there then vivec is fucked, he can either destroy them and then vvardenfell or let them destroy the city
Yeah. Everyone loves him. Because he kills everyone who doesn't.
>Implying Vivec doesn't
He's holding an entire continent hostage
t. tribunal cock sucker
Look how close seyda neen is to vivec, imagine an empire so retarded they let ships come that close to their unwalled unprotected city
if the imperials wanted to they could take it in an instant
I never claimed Vivec was good. I'm just saying the notion Nerevar is the people's champion is bullshit. He's Azura's servant.
Anyone saying you cant get ships there is retarded, look at the size of ships at ebonheart which is directly accross from vivec
itt. people who never played the game, OP included
if the imperials wanted to take vivec, they could do it with ease
>muh shallow waters and rocks
This is it. A big part of Morrowind's setting is the waning power of the Tribunal. Their once frequent and grand public appearances were growing increasingly rare and the Temple was barely holding itself together. They couldn't even beat the ash vampires. All they had left was wraithguard and the loyalty of their people.
>its not that hard to get there
Yeah if you sail through Blacklight or Sadrith Mora first, the major cities of houses Redoran and Telvanni respectively. Reaching Vivec with military force is a long and dangerous journey through Dunmer land no matter how you approach.
MORROWIND IS PART OF THE EMPIRE
Ingame maps are not the same as lore. The ingame maps are several thousand times smaller than the real provinces would be.
In fact, in Oblivion the imperial city is landlocked. There's severally bridges far too low for ships to pass under and the river doesn't even reach the sea. Despite this there's a port there and a quest where you sail to sea....
Irrelevant. There could be a multitude of reasons for the imperials to conquer Morrowind. You think they like the idea that there are 3 literal gods in power over there?
Of course not.
>3
>there are
Was
that is the reasoning of someone who has never played or even read a single thing about morrowind
Did you not play the main quest or what
>were
You don't need cities to be defensible when your gods walk among you and can obliterate the greatest armies any other region could muster with a thought.
The Nords tried to invade morrowind once, back when their leaders were trained in The Voice. Armies who could shout down city walls and enemy infantry were NOTHING to power of the Tribunal. They were crushed so badly that their leader, Jurgen Windcaller took the defeat as a message from Kyne that The Voice was not to be abused as a tool of power, leading to the way of the voice and the pacifist Greybeards.
Dumb nigger there is a literal God living there
>non-canon CHIM bullshit
lol CHIM exists entirely only in canon books you dumb retard
and even without CHIM we have read stories about how the Tribunal fought, they are living Gods, they can take avatars of Daedric Princes on solo and defeat whole armies alone
What are you even on about?
>en.uesp.net
>"The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven [...] and by its apex one can be as he will. More: be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [...] the secret of how mortals become makers [CHIM], and makers back to mortals."
>CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled.
>Woe to the Oath-breakers! Of the skin of gold, the Xarxes Mysteriuum says "Be fooled not by the forlorn that ride astray the roadway, for they lost faith and this losing was caused by the Aedra who would know no other planets." Whereby the words of Lord Dagon instructs us to destroy these faithless. "Eat or bleed dry the gone-forlorn and gain that small will that led them to walk the path of Godhead at the first. Spit out or burn to the side that which made them delay. Know them as the Mnemoli."
>en.uesp.net
>Others think that Lorkhan created the world as the testing ground for transcendence; to them the spirit realm was already a prison, and that true escape is now finally possible.
>en.uesp.net
>'I told you,' Vivec said, 'I am meant to be the teacher of the king of the earth. AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME.'
>With these magic words, the King of Rape added another: 'CHIM,' which is the secret syllable of royalty.
>From the Many headed Talos
>"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"
When will you fags fuck off? Why are you talking shit about something you have no idea about?
Do you even know the history of morrowind you dumb fuck?
The ingame cities aren't representative of what they're meant to be in the lore. The game is far too limited to show them properly.
Balmora is supposed to be a bustling metropolis por ejemplo.
How about YOU fags fuck off? Bethesda has said many, many times just because something is in a book in a TES game or some character says it doesn't mean it's true. This is very specifically by design. The only shit that is known to be objectively true In TES is shit directly involving the player.
They only say this because all their good writers left and the current staff are sick and tired if having their fuckups pointed out.
They've been saying it since at least Morrowind.
>The only shit that is known to be objectively true In TES is shit directly involving the player.
>player opens the console and types TGM
>presses enter
by your logic this is canon since it has can or will happen directly to the player
CHIM already accounts for this
Alright, so we have seen ingame a dragonbreak, mantling, tonal architecture, Old Ways magic etc. etc.
And out of all of these weird things that are connected to the way TES metaphysics works, the only thing that isn't true is CHIM? Even though it comes from the same basket of metaphysics?
If CHIM is actually a thing it shouldn't be possible for the player to kill Vivec.
neither of those are fanart
You think that's a gotcha, but it's actually the correct answer
>the King of Rape
S P E A R E D
That's shallow water filled with rocks, yes.
not shallow enough, how else do you think those ships got in?
>small trade ships can slowly manuever in therefore the imperials could just sail a fleet of warships down nice and quick without getting fireballed by some Telvanni on a nearby island
>All they need to do is sail up 5-6 ships and bombard
With all those canons they have in Elder Scrolls? Or just magic, because I'm sure the nice wizards in the safe stone cantons would win out on that fight.
>hile soldiers swarmed the swamps and raided
Yeah man, running pre-gunpowder infantry through swamps is an amazing idea. Especially if you then need to be funneled into one or two small bridges.
>once the fires started
In the solid stone buildings?
>City is governed by a near omnipotent, enlightened god
>"how come the empire doesn't just fucking take the city?!"
they are not small ships
>muh telvanni
implying the imperials wouldnt guard their ships with their own mages
They would be literally retarded to attack a city of religious zealots with an unchained, living warhead at the center of it all. My lore is fuzzy, but could any being at that time (not talking Daedra, but what is native to that plane) match Vivec?
The Nerevarine most likely achieved CHIM as well. At that point it's just a matter of whose will is stronger.
No, they kept it floating on their own for a few years. Then it crashed one day thanks to a prison break. Vvardenfell was pretty destroyed, but northern morrowind only really got hit with ash that seemingly they were able to repel to some degrees of success since Blacklight is the new capital.
THE IMPERIALS ARE THE EMPIRE YOU ABSOLUTE DUMBFUCK
you dont get it
they dont need to match him, just force him to either leave or doom the whole continent himself
i would imagine the imperials would assume he wouldnt doom his own continent, but even if he did, they win
yeh and ??
Why didn't they send miners up there? I know that it was a show of Vivec's power but especially after the Nerevarine told him he's going to destroy the heart of Lorkhan he should've ordered them to mine it away or just use spells to destroy it.
>they win
yknow im really glad that we conquered this ruined and destitute land that actively eats up more income than it generates, alongside having harsh famine + the entire political system burning to the ground
Name a single thing Bethesda designs well.
they have absolutely no reason to declare war on a vassal that isn't rebellious
It's not like holding Baar Dau in place is taking so much power from Vivec that he cannot act or it falls. In fact, Vivec's power is virtually limitless. Without a doubt, he is one of the strongest characters to ever exist in the setting.
To even imply that some mundane invasion force could hope to challenge his rule is ludicrous.
muh god
t. behesdasucker
One or two Oblivion castle cities were designed oddly well, I believe.
Anyways, why do you care? Nobody but whoever made Chivalry and Mordhau and the devs behind M&B really even try to create defensive fortifications.
You never actually kill him though do you? He just shits Wraithguard on the floor and disappears.
>no reason
im sure theres literally hundreds of reasons the empire would see it beneficial to have a more complete control over vvwardenfell
and yet he did struggle and they could have challenged him if they wanted
The empire can do what it pleases as long as I have my waifu
no, there really isn't. morrowind was more of a "we want your ungodly dwemer construction that can unmake things so we can conquer all of Tamriel." the Imperials just do not give 2 shits about Morrowind, they never even try to aid it when it's in turmoil. which, by the way, they could easily have more influence and power without bloodshed by just fucking helping the province out.
The rock isn't his only power, dipshit.
He's clearly far from being limitless in his power. If he really was omnipotent or nearly so he could have dealt with the whole red mountain / sixth house situation himself. You're right about it not draining him too much though; he always could have just destroyed the rock.
user, Morrowind was conquered WITH Numidium (or the threat of using it, whatever). They didn't need to take it over in order to have it.
>tfw no VERY special khajiit friend
>he always could have just destroyed the rock.
Now where's the fun in that?
>How do they explain lore-wise that this city wasn't taken by imperials yet?
Vivec used to sink that shit whenever someone tried and has a meteor trapped in the sky ready to nuke the place.
Ain't nobody gonna fuck with that place
It's also really hard to get to with boats
>Fire at palace
>projectiles are all swallowed by vivec's vagina and shot back at your through his dick
metaphorically speaking of course
the op is a retard and i hate him
whatever they want
>implying imperial "mages" could defend themselves against telvanni
>You think they like the idea that there are 3 literal gods in power over there?
that's why uriel septim sent the nerevarine there
No, that's why he sent some jagoff there. The player isn't ~really~ the Nerevarine. He just happened to do all the things and tick the check boxes over the course of the game. All the emperor did was send some schmuck that had a certain birthday that happened to loosely align with the prophecy.
more like the neverlaid, if this thread is any measure
its magic i aint gotta explain shit
You're the perfect person, for a guy like me
And you're eyes are shining like the Topal Sea
I wish you could be mine for eternity
Could you please be mine? Hey
You trapped my soul, you broke my law
I think you're a thief 'cause you stole my heart
Stole my heart, trapped my soul
Trapped my soul like Azura's Star
Star, star, Azura's Star
Star, star, 'cause you're my star
Star, star, Azura's Star
Star, star, 'cause you're my star
>Vivec used to sink that shit whenever someone tried and has a meteor trapped in the sky ready to nuke the place.
No he didnt
>It's also really hard to get to with boats
No it's not, there's a imperial port right next to it
>Fire at palace
The whole city is on fucking stilts all the imperials would need to do is have their mages let loose on the foundations and everything would come crashing down.
Not an argument
You have nothing to base on that they couldn't. There's plenty of powerful imperial mages.
It was the battlemages that let the empire conquer as much as they did you fucking brainlet
>Totally indefensible.
Blow up bridges, set up sentries protecting the waterways into the city. Each part of it can be isolated by destroying the bridges and only the grid structure of the internal districts allows for doing it without obstructing passage to any of them for the defenders.
Coming from sea is literally retarded, it's a shallow water so you need a flushdecker which is by design limited in size and makes the "entering the city" a risky endeavor(as you're bottlenecked).
>attacking a city defended by a literally god
The whole city revolves around Vivec. He can fuck up the Imperials without the rock, it's there in case HIS OWN PEOPLE ever think to stop worshipping him. It's not a suicide button to deal with foreigners, he doesn't need to blow up his own palace to deal with foreigners.
It would make it even easier. As if there are not factions inside vivec that want vivec gone..
Once the imperials show up, they will wait for their chance to strike at vivec
>No he didnt
you're right
he sank the whole country
(varieties of faith in the empire)
>there's a imperial port
yes. in peace time. after a treaty was made
>city on stilts
okay now you're just baiting, it's built into the ground of the inner sea and you're ignoring that it's literally a metaphysical body for Vivec (Sermon 25)
treaties can be broken
>boats cant get there
boats are already there
>well they are at peace now
stop moving the goalposts bethesdafag
Baar Dau? you mean that rock hovering over like 30 feet above the temple? It might destroy the building it's floating over but it'd never be able to destroy the whole temple, let alone the entire continent
When some lad broke the machine that kept the rock up in the sky, the meteor regained its original velocity.
Name one thing Obsidian designs well
nerds here are claiming baar dau is simply frozen in time and hold to the idea that if it was release, it would keep the same speed it had when it was falling from the sky.
Which is bonkers and stupid because at the same time they claim vivec could move the rock somewhere else to target the empire or the boats
if he used it to destroy the boats then it would take out the city also if it still had that speed
if it dint have the speed then it could take out maybe 3-4
A storyline
also keep in mind that they hollowed it to make a prison, so even if it maintained it's original velocity the fractionh would definitely be a fraction of what it was before
ebonheart is right there you fucking cuck
>A storyline
Well, name one
>Inb4 New Vegas and the totally real option of choice when the game panders to the NCR
Betraying Nerevar doesn't mean they didn't love him. It is demonstrated that Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil still did, and likely carried a burden of guilt to the end of their lives.
>Vivec channeled all his despair into his writings to help the Nerevarine.
>Sotha Sil lived a solitary life of self-exile and put all of his frustrations into working on the Clockwork City
>Almalexia developed a savior complex and became increasingly delusional as she failed to provide for her people.
Reminder that a giant robot battle is something that canonically happens in TES lore
And we'll probably never see it because of ""engine limitations"".
Once I retired from game I took all my money, hanged my armour on a skelly mannequin, took the most expensive regular ring and moved in to live with Ahnassi in her home. I'm not even furry.
We didn't even get to see it in graphic novel form like it wasn't intended too, Bethesda was too cheap to pay for an artist so they just posted the transcript online
it doesnt need to be defensible it has an actual living god inside besides its on vanderfel which is far away from any borders and to a alrge degree controled by the temple, that considered the city is absolutely fitting
Can you summarise? I'm an idiot when it comes to TES lore, but I'd love to know more.
giant robot from the first era fights the Thalmor and accidentally opens a time rift that sends him to the future where he literally murders everything in sight and then he fights the giant robot from Morrowind
How's TESO if you only get the standard edition which has the base game and morrowind?
>applying normal tactics in a world where magic is common place
They literally used mass enchantments to allow an army to march under a fucking lake or some body of water to surprise attack an opposing force. Do you really think moving a few ships up to the city is going to actually work?
ESO is okay, if you can rope a friend or two to play with you its a fun romp through locations you know or at least heard of in the other games. I honestly hope they use the class system they used in ESO in TES 6. It makes class selection mechanically meaningful while allowing you to level every skill.
You know the island that the game takes place on is surrounded by a mainland also controlled by morrowind, right OP?
There’s literally a shipwreck on a rock in the image, retard.
TES game worlds are always far smaller representations of what they are in the lore. If Solitude in Skyrim had a million houses you'd just see threads with,
>Capital City of Skyrim, a million houses but no actual content, what did Bethesda mean by this?
Rather than
>capital city of Skyrim, 9 houses, what did they mean by this?
Obviously in the next TES, they'll take inspiration from TW3, and make a city like Novigrad, because they have to if they don't want to eviscerated by the gaymes media. But that still doesn't really change the fact that even within the context of it's own universe, Novigrad is a smaller representation of what it would actually be. It's also easy to forget that Skyrim was a 360/PS3 game developed by incompetent devs that were most likely pushing what little they could with the hardware.
If anything a shipwreck goes to show how often ships come in and out
How do you think the ships in the port got there?
Why would a city nested in the geographic center of your country need to be defensible? Whether by land or sea you would need to get through the rest of Morrowind to even approach Vivec. Morrowind itself is all the defense the city needs.
>friends
Uh oh then
>Just sail up the river and take over the city
>Totally unrealistic for any real capital to be built like that!
>Totally unrealistic for any real capital to be built like that!
>Totally unrealistic for any real capital to be built like that!
Imagine being a French girl seeing big strong Vikings bust through the walls and being taken by them
It's gay af
>implying real-world strategy works in a world full of magic and fuckery
you gotta be fucking kidding me, user
read more fanfics, moron
just calm down kiddo
the imperials btfo several more magically inclined peoples than them through sheer will and force
balmore and aldruhn are too much to the south
markarth and whiterun should be more to the west, falkreath to the north
whoever made this shit map has never even played the games
I fucking hate vivec I can never find anybody there
I have an announcement to make
>why isn't this fantasy setting realistic
retard
When you live in the marshes you don't need a fortified city you dumb uneducated niggebrain faggot OP, you use the marshes and geography to wage guerilla warfare and make the enemy go insane.
Have you learned nothing from Welsh history? Giving both Romans and Normans eternal butthurt for a millennia.
>>why isn't this fantasy setting realistic
>retard
retard
>>retard
>retard
retard
>>>retard
>>retard
>retard
retard
ok, i dont know whom i am replying to, but for me fantasy should start with unrealistic premise and then go for its logical conclusion.
here's an unrealistic premise for you, three fags make themselves into gods and go off and make fantastic and outrageous cities around themselves.
one makes a massive clockwork city
one makes a flashy magical city
one makes a city on the water with a big rock floating over it
whatcha reckon
bump
this is pretty cool
so tes 6 is going to be hammerfell+high rock
tes 7 will be black marsh+ the non vardenfell morrowind
and tes 8 will be the magnum opus game consisting of elswyer/valenwood and summerset isle. then any games after that will consist of the entire continent in one or take place where the snake and monkey kings live.
100% most likely
>Invade Vivec
>Vivec just unfreezes the meteor, annihilating all of Morrowind
Yeah, real good idea, retard
Right so, imperials win
>Morrowind is destroyed
>Dark elves everywhere are pissed af and will start genociding imperials everywhere
Nice win, bro
>Russia burns its farmland to the ground
HURR CHARLES/NAPOLEON/HITLER WON
How do you remember to breathe user?