Who else can't stand jrpg awful writing?
English is not even my first language, but I think jrpg in general has some godawful writing. Final Fantasy being the worst offender. FFX is so bad that looks amateurish.
Why they can't just hire some writers? They spend so much money on designers and artists, why not spend a little more on writers?
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Blame the translators for being shit
While some of it could be what said I feel the same way. I played jrpgs as a kid and in high school but as I got older I started to get sick of them. I'm 19 now and find most of the genre a slog to play though. I still enjoy classics like Dragon Quest III and Chrono Trigger, but for the most part I can't find myself sitting through modern anime troupes. It feels like the games in the genre are either visual novels in disguise like Persona or genuine weebshit like Neptunia.
this is only sometimes the case
it's definitely the case with FFVII though
Yeah, because Normura is SO GOOD at every other part of his job, surely it must be the translators making the story shit.
This, I have pirated consoles just so I don't have to deal with them
If you had literally any idea what you were talking about you'd know that not only is FFVII's localization shitty, NOMURA DIDNT. EVEN. WRITE. IT.
No, games are literally all made by one person. Whoever is the most famous name tied to aname was responsible for every element of it.
I know its sonic autism but...
>understanding the meaning of war
>by destroying machines and not other human/hedgehogs or whatever
I'm sure there's context to it besides that. Maybe someone died? He kills robots all of the time.
So you make it you job to know the entire development team for a shitty series?
weird.
>make a point
>get proven wrong
>insult the person who corrected you
Nah it's fine.
going through octopath traveler and final fantasy 6, and i agree OP. the writing is just trash
Mah man, you gotta get downvoted. Yea Forums is a wee bit loving forum, everything from glorious nippon is praised here.
But yeah, writing is awful, voices are 'hurrr determined scholar' all the time, stories are beyond retardation and you basically play the same game over and over again.
I didn't insult that user.
When you get older you'll get over this obsession with "winning" all the time.
>calling someone weird isn't insulting them
>passive aggressive cope post trying to psychoanalyze anyone responding to you
Damn dude you really got him
Yeah translation usually crew need better writers and voice acting is horrible then again it’s mostly how dialogue is written. I enjoy jrpg more when they didn’t have voice acting
This and the fact that the nip language is very contextual and doesn’t translate easily to begin with.
>Why they can't just hire some writers? They spend so much money on designers and artists, why not spend a little more on writers?
And we got Fire Emblem Fates, which has a shit story even in the original Japanese thanks to three different manga writers handling each individual route, and got maimed by Nintendo Treehouse so hard that Treehouse isn't allowed to localize anything anymore. You think the Japanese devs are gonna hire Western writers? All you get is Elden Ring for that off the top of my head and maybe some Wizardry shit, and even then that's not writing, just support and licensing. Japan would go for local talent, and the local talent almost unanimously fucking sucks or wouldn't write for games.
You are a certified retard. FFX was one of the pioneers of fully voice-acted RPGs and the localisation team struggled with it. It's as easy as that. They wrote and directed the lines according to the lip flaps of the Japanese dub. It was a gamble and whether it paid off or not who knows. But it ended up fine for the kind of tone and story FFX is trying to convey.
It's true that modern JRPGs have godawful writing but that's because the weebs that used to be made fun of for enjoying braindead NIS and (some) ATLUS shit have become a large and very profitable audience that many dev studios are pandering towards now.
Couple that with the rise of Idea Factory / Compile Heart trash that people started playing ironically until they liked it, to the point that they actually became popular, and you have a genre that's pretty much saturated with garbage and gone completely off the deep end.
This right here. This is why Ted Woolsey and Carl Macek will always stand out as positives in my mind. A direct translation is always gonna feel like janky shit. People may make fun of things like "You spoony bard!", but at least the less-direct translations had personality.
>ESL too retarded to understand jrpgs
What a surprise
FFX is very well written, it's localisation is bad.
The translation made it better you tard.
Direct translations can also be important though, like FFVII being confusing as hell because of it.
>Sephiroth "clones"
Nomura did have a hand in the story. He vetoed the idea of all the characters dying at the end, stating it would undercut Aeris' death.
once I get older I'll learn to never own up to my mistakes and resort to passive-aggressive remarks with no relevance to the argument at hand?
>clones
Yes anyone with Jenova cells is part Jenova. He and Sephiroth are connected, as are any of the other subjects.
All so he could drag it through the dirt with the Compilation of FFVII shit.
That fuck!
I believe it was Kitase that specifically wanted the rest of the party you didn't pick in the Midgar air raid in the endgame to die, but Nomura talked him down.
Fuck, you're right. They should've all died.
>I believe it was Kitase that specifically wanted the rest of the party you didn't pick in the Midgar air raid in the endgame to die, but Nomura talked him down.
that's fucking absurd
I love the original ending so I'm glad Nomura told him it was crazy
Every once in a while you end up with top tier localisation and voice acting like FF12
>Who else can't stand jrpg awful writing?
I just can't stand awful writing in general. JRPGs get the biggest rap for that shit, but it's not like nip or western games as a whole are exactly great on that front either.
FF7 isn't confusing because the translation isn't "direct" enough, it's confusing because translations are just wrong. Like Vincent saying "Sephiroth knows he was created 5 years ago?" instead of saying "So Sephiroth learned the secret behind his birth 5 years ago?" FF7 (and almost every translation of every Japanese game before it) had a rushed as hell translation with a team too small to handle it.
Don't forget that they use the term "Sephiroth Clone" instead of "Sephiroth Copy" or some other smarter equivalent. With how everyone tosses around the clone word around on top of the dodgy and rushed Sony of America localization, it makes Cloud's status a bit more confusing than it needed to be.
I honestly thought for a while that the Cloud in the game was not actually the original Cloud that left to impress Tifa. I figured otherwise when she went inside his head but before that I just thought he was a clone who looked like that dude.
You're supposed to think that, that's what Cloud thinks.
Does he? I don't remember that actually being the case.
You need Ys in your life. Nihon-Falcom have somehow kept high Quality work despitw being virtually unknown and working on smaller budgets and a small team. All of thwir games are like 80% off on Steam Sale, YsI&II is a very oldschool narrative experience but when it gets good, it gets really good. Adol is also a chad.
>Especially you, Tifa. I'm really sorry.
>You've been so good to me...... I don't know what to say...
>I never lived up to being 'Cloud'.
>Tifa...... Maybe one day you'll meet the real 'Cloud'.
Dialogue from the North Crater, after Sephiroth shows him Zack being the Soldier who went to Nibel 5 years ago.
In Japanese, Cloud starts talking in honorific speech here, calling Tifa "Tifa-san". He's completely broken.
I hate western writing more. I can at least stand Jrpg stuff as long it isn't too anime
I guess I wasn't crazy at all.
I've seen the result of the makers of a JRPG claiming they hired a professional writer this time. The result was Wild ARMs 5, a game with writing so awful it makes even the worst Final Fantasy has produced look like a masterpiece in comparison.
The actual gameplay was an improvement in every way from 4 though.
Writing is the last thing I would recommend Ys for.
Due to pretty much every ability being decided by what Medium the character had equipped they were pretty much all interchangeable. And as there were only 6 Mediums there wasn't even the variety of a full class system. That's not what I'd call an improvement.
The only good jRPGs are the Mario ones, Mother 2 and 3, and Live a Live
I like Memories of Celceta, I&II and Oath tho. I think they execused their plots way better than more mainstream affairs.
Any time someone tells me a game has good writing they've been wrong 90% of the time. Is gaming just the wrong medium for this? I feel like people who quote video games and praise writing just haven't experienced anything else to compare it to.
I played ffvii recently and it didn't have good writing. It had a good epic kind of feel to it but that's mostly because of the game's length.
Don't even get me started on Persona. They're fun games but I can't believe some say they have groundbreaking writing, stories or characters.
When people say a game has good writing they don't mean its good like classic literature or film its good enough that it actually makes you care what happens next in the story or what happens to the main character.
Not a bad way of thinking about it actually
Are we still going to pretend that Metal Gear Solid has good storylines?
>I played ffvii recently and it didn't have good writing
FF never has good writing so I wouldn't play that series if that's what you're looking for.
Didn't go in with very high expectations because fan boys tend to overrate it. I can see why the game was influential and big at the time though.
Give an example. X has some pretty good writing. And this is coming from a guy who regular writes 50 thousand words a week.
because expecting a video game story to be as good as a book is fucking stupid
A video game is meant to be an adventure. People like FFVII because it's an adventure. It's one of the few story heavy JRPGs that understands what a setpiece is. It has a main character that doesn't make you want to fucking claw your eyes out.
>they don't mean its good like classic literature or film
There's no point in comparing "writing" across media since the way books, films and games convey narratives are completely different. A game can't have writing like a book, just like a film can't.
Being JRPGs are RPG-lites. They're more of an indulgent fantasy than anything else. Look at the Tifa's redesign threads as an example.
There are JRPGs that have some writing issues, but compared to western RPGs even Final Fantasy games are high prose.
>indulgent fantasy
You mean like the 99% of videogames ever?
That's only a small part of it.
>meanwhile in WRPG threads people complain about the sun
Pot, meet kettle.
Writing, lore, and NPC dialogues are usually the only good things about Ys.
Because "professional writer" means someone who wrote a novel or a television/movie script, which publishers/developers stupidly think translates 1:1 to writing for video games.
Honestly the games with the best stories have the game developers intimately involved with writing the story. That way you can craft the story with the gameplay in mind and vice versa. Outsourcing the writing is pretty much always a mistake.
I always thought Ys was all about the gameplay and music, because the stories or writing are definitely not their strong suit. But I've grown disillusioned with Falcom in general. Ys 1 and 2 are classic but it seems everything else is just badly-designed flashy action RPG shit. Or in the case of Trails, the most boring shit imaginable.
The music in Ys is actually great when it isn't boring, dated-sounding electronic or power-metal shite, but that's only a few tracks per game sadly.
Ys music was always shit by Falcom standards. Literally any other Falcom game has better soundtrack than any Ys, Sound Team JDK just doesn't give a fuck and uses shitty synthesized guitar in every track. Gameplay is usually incredibly simplistic and only became somewhat passable in VIII, even cheap trash like TX has much better combat. Trails, however, is the best RPG series ever created, even if some games have minor flaws.
triple a games were mistake
What's a game with good writing that isn't a VN or old wrpg? I'm not looking to bash I just want to try these games. Gonna start ffix or persona 2 tonight.
Sonic the Comic (the UK version) was the shit. Had some mature, well-written stories for kids and a lot of the new characters were cool (Captain Plunder, Commander Brutus, Shortfuse the Cybernik)
because "good writing" is entirely subjective and nobody can properly define what it is
most people who think there is an objective "good writing" are not used to writing in general
they think that aesthetic merits are a material object you can't help but see without even needing to slowly develop your taste and build a baseline for comparison
that is also why most revolutionary artists were badly perceived by the public,, their art didnt fit what the public has been subsconsciouly educated to find beautiful (this is pretty noticeable in painting), they either had to wait for popular figures to tell them this unconventional art had real aesthetic value or actually make the effort of appraising it by themselves
Persona 3 has decent enough characters but they skip through the good parts of character development way too fast.
Persona 4 is a bit more cheery and shallow but it's not terrible.
Persona 5 characterization is dogshit. Every fucking 10 minutes they regurgitate the same feelings and dialogue and constantly recap what's happening like we're 10. It's insufferable. The plot is not hard to follow at all yet they hammer recaps and details at every point. Phone messages, cutscenes, confidants. Fucking insufferable to hear it for 100 hours.
My dearest of niggas