Smash Ultimate

theres plenty of smash threads up, fuck off retard

>Playing a turtle speeded projectile based character
OHNONONONONO

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We should make or join a tournament in honor of Etika. #JOYCONBOYZ

no, he has a wolf dick

>Robin Arcfires your shield
What the fuck are you suppposed to do when this happens?

>S or A tier at every Smash game
It's not fair, Fox's design guarantees he'll be good at any Smash game no matter the mechanics.

don’t miss smash 4 but niggas can just pop aerials out in this game it’s annoying as shit
i feel like chrom and wolf can just press buttons with no consequence

Question.

In regards to spacing how do you approach most matchups in ult? I feel that a lot of fox players online have a great punish game but they just seem to have no idea how to neutral outside of "FORWARD FORWARD DASH DANCE FORWARD" and don't think of spacing or anything like that. A lot of elite smash fox's just run into charged up smash attacks what the hell is going on in y'alls head?

i've been playing snake and ridley a lot. i just wanna play as banjo already

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seconding

yeah. when spamming titls or smash attacks for a KO you know you are dealing with an underage tierwhore
deserves relentless teabagging

Its hilarious that Brainlets complain things being unpunishable yet mkleo bftoes top players because he punish almost eversingle option of their character.

>70 characters in Smash
>play as a mii instead

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Fox mains talk all that shit, but get easily swatted by Levin Nair.

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i play other characters and miis are neat. deal with it, fag

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Not that user, but fat uncut cocks are superior in every way.

>zoomers have shit taste
like pottery.

>He doesn't play a Mii of a character he wishes was in the game but has a costume, at least for fun
Knuckles Brawler is pretty fun.

Stop seething and let people like what they want you bitter ass bitch

The thing about Arcfire is that while I wouldn't call it the slowest move its certainly react-able.

Its not really about what to do if you get hit but understanding why you got hit by it in the first place.

Its because MkLeo waits for a mistake to happen and then is able to keep the opponent in disadvantage while maintaining stage control. He just looks for how his opponent drifts with aerials and makes the option to either roll behind or walk a few pixels away for a punish. On top of that he plays a lot of characters with disjoints so that compliments his playstyle.

That said MKLeo is arguably the best in the world right now and I highly doubt anyone in here (including you) is in your states PR and probably just sits around and watches streams all day instead of attending.

Just like in fighting games I go with fun, grab-based characters that generally have some form of armor or other method of not giving a fuck about the opponent's offense, usually massive hitboxes.

Top 5 is Palutena/K. Rool/Bowser/Simon/Incineroar. Bowser main in every game he's in, actually mained Palutena in Sm4sh and am so glad she's good now. Bowser is also the best he's ever been, although I still think his PM self is his most fun incarnation, if unofficial. Ultimate's newcomers were kind to my playstyle.

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It's kinda hard to say with how many matchups there are. Most people online just want to mash buttons and pull off twitter combos so getting them to chase me as fox always tends to be a positive outcome for me with how piss easy it is to punish the smallest slip ups. If they want to play it safe I can just bum rush them with endless aggression until they get pushed back to the ledge with very little options left, usually it starts with them getting scared away from doing aerials with how fast fox is to counter them on the start or end. The last thing you want to do in this game is sit in your shield so as soon as that happens it tends to be an easy victory for me

aha I see!

thankyou for sharing I appreciate it.

Wolf is uncircumcised and Fox is circumcised

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Fell for the meme that this guy was shit very early on.
Some of the best normals in the game, every special is usable, and not a bottom 5 recovery like everyone thinks.
Character is easily higher mid tier and has plenty of relevant matchups.
Would love to argue/discuss.

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*saves your game*

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5 alts of wft

that grinch vs incineroar war must have been intense

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Love this guy, I always wanted a proper grappler in Smash and he's exactly what I wanted.

i made a mii swordfighter for dante w/ red pirate outfit and made his moves resemble rebellion's.

I think Roar is a counterpick character, and I think that's very relevant in a game with 70+ characters. Your main cannot possibly have good matchups across the board; there has to be one matchup where the opposing character's gameplan just negates yours to an extent. Incineroar can fill gaps for a lot of characters despite clearly having gaps due to his speed. I think the interesting thing about him is that he really doesn't mind camping as much as you would think. Lariat & Cross Chop deal with a lot of projectiles if you read them, Revenge makes it scary to just throw things at him randomly, and he needs way less mistakes from the zoner to make up the difference than most slow characters.

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Absolutely agree on the counterpick thing. He has the same sort of role that I felt DK had in Smash 4.
>camping
He's also really good at camping himself, honestly. You can force leads by default by having a lead, and he's really good at stuffing approaches with shit like dtilt, fair, lariat, etc. And if you have the % lead against zoners, you can stack revenge and force them to approach aswell.

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I wish link was faster

He feels like the kind of character that you can't have as your only main but is good to have as one of them

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His run animation is ugly

Link traded speed with range. He has lag up the ass on his moves but in turn his sword has bigger range than it did in previous iterations.

He needs more range than characters like wolf should not have a foward smash that reaches further than his

whats the best way to reduce lag online? router?

Get an Ethernet cable.

Give him a break, he has bad cardio.

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I love it. Love the slow bastard.

When are these characters gonna get buffed? They're not only considered mid tier or below but they're also widely considered straight up worse versions than other characters. I'm sick of hearing that my character is useless and having to agree.

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His run animation is alright but his model is just fugly. Still fun as fuck to play.

marth is a solid mid tier, toon link is as good as regular link if not better. doc is trash i'll agree. he's the only one of those 3 who needs buffs.

I think his model is fantastic. They did a good job with him.

I think Doc is fine as is because he doesn't actually play anything like Mario anymore, so calling him a worse version is just misleading.

It helps that MKLeo himself also only plays top tier characters to compliment his skillset. I hate that we can't say something so simple as that though because it implies that you're taking away from his talents when it's not controversial to say that top tier players go with top tier toolsets. Joker isn't broken, but he's one of the best, and its obvious that MKLeo isn't going to pick up Incineroar as a main. Let's just say that MkLeo winning isn't the counter argument to certain characters being lame or having more safe options that people think that it is.

Ridley main here. Anyone who says he is low tier is honestly not thinking right. Character has some outright oppressive attacks in neutral, mainly nair, dtilt, and ftilt. The whole kit is pretty solid other than Dair. Skewer is amazing at puninshing bad plays even. Yes he’s a big fuck and yes his fsmash is a little weird at first but he’s good. What makes him over the top for at least mid tier though is he is probably top five in the game at edgeguarding. Like holy shit go offstage with Ridley and your opponent will either recover high into a bair kill or get swatted away by nair of fair.

This. Holy fuck it makes a difference.

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Thoughts on this fat man?

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F-smash is underrated as fuck. That move can kill disgustingly early.

i fucking DESPISE wolf
he literally can just go to the other side of the stage and keep spamming his shitty projectiles and get free hits

I want to fuck Wolf

The duality of man

>i fucking DESPISE wolf
yeah but would you fuck him?

There is a certain button called shield, try pressing it sometimes.

Solid high tier. When he gets in his strings are killer and Waft is a great tool, but he can get boxed out due to stubby normals. Great character if you can avoid swordies.

>toon link is as good as regular link if not better
Now that's just wrong. I've played against a good Link recently. Aside from the fact that he was better than me, i also felt that his character was just straight up better. Better range, better damage, more kill moves, more weight. Being a bit smaller and slightly faster doesn't make up for all this shit.

Just making sure this gets seen. Don’t fool yourself, it makes a difference

Doc is a couple buffs away from being a truly solid high mid tier. That’s all I fucking want. Please, just a little recovery buff. Maybe a mobility buff? Fuck i’d even take a range buff. ANYTHING PLEASE

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Run up and neutral air - the game.

mewtwo is so much fuckin fun. he just feels so good and moves so much

I play as Lip and Ray. I'll get to play as Geno soon, just like in 4...

where my macchads @?

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I'm not sure which Link is better but to be fair, I can imagine Link beats Tink in that matchup.
I agree, certain characters got written off incredibly early but are actually really good and have relevant matchups.
Ridley, Incineroar, Villager, etc.

pichu needs more nerfs
change my mind

you're right
he unironically needs to be low tier again

Banjo comic when, Katie?

>Lucas doesn't have a strong combo game compared to Ness
>yet PK FREEZE kills ridiculously early
Should I even ask for buffs? He hasn't been touched in any of the patches too

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Another day of being the worst Link... ugh. Tink isn't even really in need of any buffs (He's doing good in Japan so the tools are def there), but being the worst out of the Links is just... annoying. I'd rather have them nerf Easy mode Yink than anything else desu, Yink is just braindead hardcoded combos while Tink is more free flow but worse off because of it.

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he should be trash tier. he was designed to be that way.

are you fags ready to watch CEO

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I'm pretty sure Link is still worse than Young Link.

>watch
wish me luck user!

>Young Link.
meant Toon Link, so Tink can't be the worst Link

well he still puts in work
youtube.com/watch?v=tN1JjDzKGOs

>meta shit for a party game
"competitive gaming" is so embarrassing

I would say Adult Link is the best one. The added range and more consistent killing probably helps a lot against the top tiers, and the potential with Link's remote bomb is still largely untapped. Yink feels more like the typical combo character that only has a set of true combos that he relies on, which makes him predictable. Also Link has better results as of lately I'm pretty sure

good luck

So far my real actual mains are Simon Belmont and King K Rool. I just keep kicking my opponent's ass like it's nothing with either character. Practicing with level 7-9 CPUs and playing with actual professional players are quite challenging, but I find a way to win against them somehow regardless. Just can't wait until I get my hands on Banjo-Kazooie to be real with you.

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Meh, anyone can play well in QP. The dude who made that video isn't even a relevant Tink player, he's retired as from what I can tell as well. The only relevant Tinks are Rima, Sigma and Hayato in Japan sadly

For whatever reason I seem to be very good with heavy characters. I usually play as Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ridley, Ganondorf, Ike, and K. Rool. The only light characters I seem to be good with are Kirby and Young Link.

Usually I like dex > str in rpgs and such, but in the case of smash I prefer heavies.

deadika is my main

belmonts and rool still deserve some buffs

Can't wait for her to invent wildly different personalities for Banjo and Kazooie, then later insult the source material while also getting it wrong so she is literally just making up random nonsense to insult!

>ROB's bury effect is the worst in the game, even at like 100%, laggy online players can mash out almost instantly

why sakurai

you betrayed us by showing that first video of his gameplay (the one with Donkey Kong) only for us to find out that the bury effect doesn't last anywhere near that long and can only combo into smash attacks at like 160%+

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>people thinking hero will be s tier
mp system will keep him in check. week 1 will be shitters whining about snooze/psych up but eventually people will learn. I think mp recovery will be passive like in the games too. if he has decent frame data, he'll at least be mid tier too

Shoutouts to Roolchads who never dropped him and never will.

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Kill everyone at nintendo responsible for its netcode then make up your own

Trailers are often misleading, yes. Like back in Overwatch when Sombra was first revealed, everyone was saying she was going to be broken-OP, S-tier, "better Tracer" and such....and then she proceeded to be hot garbage for like a year before getting enough buffs to become half-decent.

banjo looks pretty good going from the trailer, so does hero honestly.

Getting an ethernet cable doesn't save you from your shithead opponent playing on mcdonalds wifi

t. has an ethernet cable, still gets lots of laggy matches

I think both of those characters only get worse with more MU familiarity, sadly.

>doesn't main Hitler
You're a shame to us all.

>tfw can't connect online to 1 specific friend because of their shitty online
oh well

>pointing out shit taste = seething

zoom zoom

To play this game without wanting to kys because of lag, you sadly have to find other players who live closeby and who have LAN to play arenas with

1 of them would be male

Honestly I really hate how many moves in this game are close to being unpunishable, feels like some characters get away with too much shit for free.

i want k rool to top me in bed

There's something I don't understand.
Back in 4, if connection got really shitty the game would just cut it out and drop a Lv1 CPU for you to finish the match with and you'd get paired with someone different after it.

Why is Ultimate just hellbent on keeping connection even if it lags to the point of actually freezing for several seconds? then YOU have to get out of QP to wait for a while then look for a new match because it could very well pair you with the extremely shit connection again.

my main: based and chad
your main: cringe and beta

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fuck king fat ass bitch all of his players are laggy retards

K. Rool is so often wrongfully discredited because "MUH SLOW AND BIG". His bad matchups are ones he loses hard but he can win a lot of shit that he theoretically shouldn't. You have to play smart (which apparently is a no-go for 99% of players) but if you play your cards right you can cause some major upsets.

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t. palutranny/lucinigger/wolfag main

Can I post my tier lists here?

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What’s the best way to utilize Dark Samus? Short hop uair is good, but I can never follow up with anything.

I love how the answer for someone saying a character is shit is always "y-you just have to play s-smart"
K rool sucks, end of story

>Robin is worse than his sm4sh counterpart
>He got a nerf because of the global projectile nerf and now arcthunder literally serves no purpose now
>New arcfire angle sucks cock and makes it even easier to low profile
>No levin sword at the start of a match
>All he needed was a slight air speed increase and for arcfire to have a slightly bigger back hitbox.
>And the worse part is he will never get a buff because online shitters hate projectile characters.
Being a Robin main is suffering.

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just play hero

I feel you. Sucks that the only interesting FE character is trash

tfw you're a Mega Man main, but don't just resort to spamming

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Use utilt and bombs

i really wish zero got in, but then i realize he would've been another overpowered swordie so i dunno.

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>Just got the gamecube controller adapter working
>Rock Lee Taking Off the Weights.webm
Holy shit I didn't know just how absolutely fucking garbage joycons are until now. If anyone here is still using them you're gimping yourself hard bro.

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Wolf is cute. Cute!

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Zero has never been bad in a single game he has been in.

I don't see the problem with Ganondorf other than him being evil. Also Mac & Ike might qualify for "slightly underage" depending on what game you're pulling from.

I can never tell how good Fox is in Ult, probably anywhere between 7-12th best? He's great but some things are just yikes

Honestly I’m surprised they made him usable in this game.

Also buff marth please, an echo shouldn’t be straight up better.

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that's why im a little bit less mad that he's an AT. he would probably be the best character in the game, honestly.

I just want to play as Banjo already

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I'll tell my current story
>leaving the house in a few months
>have everything planned out
>family buys a switch for younger bros
>mom says, "user, why not play smash with your brothers to spend some time with them?"
>okayidc.png
>played the game before and was pretty good at it
>whoop brothers ass as dedede
>he starts crying and screaming
>never seen him act like before
>"You okay, bro?"
>"SHUT THE FUCK UP AND REMATCH ME user YOU DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN I WAS SUPPOSED TO WIN"
>this goes on for two hours
>win every game
>dumbass cries
>my ears are in constant pain
>now have a pillow with a permanent face mark in it
I can share that too, if you wanna see it.

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>stevefag
>using cuck as an insult
Pick one

Share your pillow with us, user. Also fuck your little bro, user. he deserves it

Here lmao. Should I get a better pic?

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>stevefag
>calling anyone else a cuck
GUH HUH

I'm not saying he's great, but people say he's bottom three for no reason other than flaws that are universally shared by every other heavy. I think people judge him too hastily and everyone thinks the matchup is "free".

>drooling too
Holy shit, your little bro is capable of some serious salt buildup.

With Ridley, I feel as if you have to really be on your toes, and read your opponents well most of the time, as you have to play smart

Ridley isn’t a great char, but that doesn’t mean his tools are shit.

Honestly the main thing holding him back is his model. He’s complete combo food in a game that favors smaller models.

Seeing as that was an older photo, here's the full and most updated version. He just finished and now we're doing playing.

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Damn that’s some salt.

>Get so salty that even the pillow you cry into is laughing at you
Damn you fucking destroyed that kid. He is supremely ass-blasted.

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I would say the biggest flaws are his weight and recovery. He’s lighter than Samus, and his recovery sucks, unless you’re directly under the ledge and use Up

his down b is useless, his up smash sucks, his command throw can't kill, and he's too light. those are his biggest problems, imo.

Fair points.

Honestly I hate how a fucking flying space demon has a worse recovery than a fucking squid or a fatass croc.

Welp, that’s sakurai’s monkey paw for us asking for him this long

Make him bite the pillow and go ball deep inside of him. The little bastard will know better than whining for a little game of smash

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Who do you guys think are the most honest top tiers?

Im thinking Shulk, Ike, and joker.

Just two more slots, who are you hoping for?

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maybe leon or phoenix wright, i don't know anymore.

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Updat this

Palutena's still good, and that's all I care about.

she's probably getting hit soon, with lucina and maybe wolf again

Could you use another word instead of honest?

Fuck off and go make a rosterfag thread, this thread talks about the game.

Ok then how about fair

Lucina and there's not much debating it

snake is the most honest character in the game.

>Lucina is top 5 in every tier list
>Marth is always at least two full tiers below her

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>Three of these are playable
>Four more are ATs (despite two of them being third-party)
>Three more are Spirits (not that shocking for Dee but Geno & Shantae getting referenced at all is surprising)
>Wojakshit in general
What a shit, outdated image.

I haven't played the online in a month.
Have the fixed the shitty online yet?

The first P+ major happened pretty recently and malachi took grandfinals w bowser, you should look it up. As another bowz fan, I drink to you

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Peach and Pikachu.

Oh yeah how’s the PM scene doing atm?

It still pairs you with a CPU if your opponent disconnects, but you get no GSP from the match

OKAY FINAL UPDATE
I heard a loud banging literally the second after I posted and he broke the fucking controller. Tried patching it with tape but I'm too tired to fix it. Camera sucks but whatev. I think I might die tonight Yea Forums

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Fucking end him

I’m in tears myself now, user. Too funny

Yeah it's pretty funny lmao. Weird shit to be doing at 17

How the fuck do I deal with Ganon's FAIR, I have a friend that just spams that and I am too smoothbrained to figure a way out
I play Link and Roar

I don't really consider any character fair since they all have their movesets and everyone is going to feel differently fighting against one. But that being said, I personally think Lucina is the most honest top tier for now. Peach and Daisy aren't too bad either.

spotdodge

Shield

Space that man out and camp him.

Or use revenge for roar and bombs for link

good luck user
bummed I didn't have the money to go, but I have faith in you

what's your tag so I can pay attention to your bracket

High high tier, only reason I'm not putting him at top tier is because of his ground speed and range. But other than that Wario is a fucking beast in this game, not to mention that waft is possibly the best comeback factor in this game.

Shut up PMfag

Curious how does Wario play.
I’m thinking of picking up a secondary for Shulk.

I literally cannot fucking beat this Robin player as Incineroar.
I cant catch him.

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On specific stages or just in general?

Robin is only a little bit faster than Incineroar, it shouldn't be too hard to catch him.

His issue is probably range, user

He's always in the air too.

Get your brother into streaming so we can have another person to laugh at for getting mad at video games.

Bait and punish, play patiently in general. Use his projectiles to buff yourself with Revenge. Robin has shit ground mobility (second slowest character), so you can easily catch him with Side B.

t. Robin main

Are you using Dash attack? It's Roars best move to cover space.

Wario is a very technical and demanding character, he's not easy to pick up unlike the other high/top tier characters. His playstyle for most of the cast is bait and punish.
Imagine Wario as Jigglypuff but better in every way possibly. He has a ludicrous air game and his momentum can shift greatly. Utilt, Uair, and Nair can combo into 50-60% and these moves can combo into waft. His Ftilt is a little bit safe on shield since the move has a disjointed hitbox, it can also 2 frame the ledge. He's heavy so he's gonna survive for a long time. His bike is a great tool that you can use for mix ups, recovery, and edgeguarding.

There's tons I can tell you about Wario but I think this video can tell you everything you need to know far better than I can:
youtube.com/watch?v=HToP_Cj1_cQ

Too late, after ten or so matches he left.

I wanted to get out of Elite Smash anyway so I can go back to 2v2s, but I wanted to beat him at least once.

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Well, I hope you ended up understanding the mu a bit better. Robin is severely underated and can really do some insane stuff.

Pac-Man has been my main since 4, but he has a fairly low ceiling. Should I switch mains (I play to play as Banjo when he comes out), or am I just too much of a brainlet to utilize him properly?

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Pac Man is still a solid high tier and will most likely never be touched.

Honestly I would've preferred fighting Pk Fire Pk Fire Ness. At least that can be DId out of.

If I get hit directly with Arc Fire he always has enough time to aerial or smash me, and if I block it he has plenty of time to set up. And if I jump over it...well, its Incineroar, it takes a year after jumping over it to reach him.

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I hope Robin gets the buff he deserves. Loved playing him in Smash 4 but the spark isn't there.

Playing Pac properly means studying how his Specials interact with each other and to opponents in tons of different cases and being able to react to certain ones. It's the only way he gets kills, but if you face somebody that doesn't completely understand Pac, getting there will do well for you. There are High IQ characters, but Pac-Man is one of those characters will increase your IQ by playing if you know what to look for.

Been playing a lot of Samus/Dark Samus lately (mostly the latter). I've played Ridley the most but fuck me, if it isn't frustrating having to deal with characters who can zone him out or combo him into oblivion.

And idgaf, I genuinely think it's retarded how good the top tiers are. Fucking tone them the fuck down next major patch, please. And give Ridley some fucking buffs.

Down-B isn't useless, it's just not something you throw out a lot because you'll get punished for it.

His up-Smash is actually really fucking good. It's so wide, it basically covers every option when the opponent is above you, like Ganondorf's up-Smash. It just needs a bigger hitbox from behind.

Command throw CAN kill but it really feels like it should kill a good 15%-20% earlier than it does. It feels weird actually getting it at 120% and then it not killing.

He really is too light though, I agree with that. For as big as he is, he's too fucking easy to kill considering that he has the biggest hitbox in the game.

On the topic of samus, she needs a complete rework

What are the advantages of uair? I use it but I feel like it's not as good as any of her other aerials. I use it solely because it's her fastest aerial iirc. But in terms of range, and damage, it's alright imo.

I need to work on my Dark Samus, but bombs put pressure on the opponent a lot. Use missile to cover neutral b charge. Remember that nair and dash attack crossup. Drag down fair into d-tilt is a thing. Up-B OoS.

No
She's fucking great this game.
64 cast's kit might be outdated, but MOST of them at least fully use their kit to their benefit now isntead of just being linear crap.

Nah I like how Samus is actually decent again finally but her toolkit needs to be revamped to be more in line with the games. hopefully while still keeping her decent or better yet, improving her overall. Imagine ledge trapping with power bombs.

I don’t mean in effectiveness, but in game accuracy.

She doesn’t really feel like a platformer char. Look at how megaman and the Belmonts play.

I just want a more game accurate character.

PM did this with her beam swapping and it was so good.

Just picked up Snake to start maining. All the Snake mains I've asked said the main thing is to use grenades as spacing and dictate opponent's movement. When I asked how, they all said practice, but I was wondering what I should be practicing?

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Grenades

Zoning.

You don’t really need to fight up close. Understand how to zone and where to place c4.

She kinda needs a run and gun move, maybe make it spammable and if you hold it you could charge

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Fair enough I guess.
I like her currently as a "shut down opponent's options" and "put the fear of the charge shot into mixups" kind of style she has going. Might not be inline with her games, but it does kind of suit her character to me.

Exactly.

Her suit isn’t meant to make her heavier for example. It’s meant to improve on her physical capabilities in every way.

She fires missiles faster than people fire bullets. Have that reflect here ffs.

>joker, lucina and chrom
>not faggot
funny

Gotta ingrain in your head how long it takes grenades to blow up. Like, you should subconsciously know how long every grenade has left before it pops. While you're doing this you can work on throwing angles, dropping and picking them up as quickly as you can, b-reversing them, etc.
Outside of nades, he's incredibly bunga.

Ridley's edge-guarding game is pretty damn good, yeah. It's actually much better than a whole lot of other characters and for as much as as most of us give his recovery, at least it's good enough where you can make it back on stage, so actually going off-stage to get those kills is viable. Not to mention his fireball can gimp without even leaving the stage. His ledge-trapping game is pretty good too.

Now that I think about it, now I kinda want to try throwing some fireballs off-stage to bait an option, then going down there to punish. Shit, I should try that next time I play.

The problem is actually LANDING the damn thing, especially on characters like Pichu or Peach and especially when it's range is so pitiful.

>Honestly the main thing holding him back is his model. He’s complete combo food in a game that favors smaller models.
Fucking this. Not to mention the meta highly favoring zoning, which absolutely fucks Ridley up.

Main piranha plant. Good times bros.

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Chrom is the ultimate unga bunga swordie

Honestly have 0 idea what the criteria is for this list.
>Bowser, DK, Cloud, Puff, K.Rool, Plant, Rob, Zelda, Pac in not faggot
>Incineroar, Diddy, M2, ZSS in faggot

Swordies are simple characters. If you can't fight swordies that's entirely because they're better than you, and you can't understand disjoints.
They don't have the best range anymore, their speed is okay, they have tools to deal with situations but all of them have different counters.
Joker is just fun.
The anti-sword fags are worse in every regard.

Additionally they didn’t make him heavier to compensate

Haven't played seriously in probably too long now (about a week maybe) but lately I've felt the hunger to just start picking characters up and seeing what I can do with them to gain more knowledge about them, the meta, and fundamentals in general. I picked up Mario a while back for awhile and I really want to go back to him since he got some buffs. I've been playing Inkling a lot lately too and enjoying playing as them. Now I want to pick up a swordie, maybe Lucina, and also definitely Cloud.

Joker is honestly one of the more fun chars to fight against imo

>They don't have the best range anymore, their speed is okay, they have tools to deal with situations but all of them have different counters.
Can you go into further depth for me? Maybe it's because I'm still a scrub but swordies scare the shit out of me still.

Right.

Are you looking for a basic or more complex swordie?

if you play as these characters, you're a faggot.

I like this a lot. And maybe you could even still put the fear of the charge shot like into fools even with this sort of play.

Anyone got Richter tips? I know I zone, but don't go too hard, but what about when he's up close. What are good combos. Someone told me down throw into fair is true at lower percents, but any other tips?

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Each swordie has their own unique skill set that helps with matchups.

Chars such as Belmonts and zoners fuck up swordies hard, especially slower swordies like Shulk.

sounds like you're a faggot, user

More basic, I guess?

Forgot, I also want to pick up Wolf, just so I can see what makes him tick, cuz FUCK him. And Snake too I guess.

Basically, just learn the matchup. Can you outrange them? Do it. They all have predictable recoveries that typically have hitboxes, so counters fuck them hard, on top of just having issues with recovery. Despite what you think, aerials aren't always safe. If someone airial unga bungas online, typically you can just shield grab their ass. If not, you can at least jab.
If you have projectiles, just fuck them with them until they lose.

Lol you can literally spam short hop nair with Lucina and a good number of characters can't do shit about it.

Lucina is the ultimate no frills swordie. Chrom is p easy to pick up.

Lucina is more floaty.

How do I fight this motherfucker

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If charge shot was changed into a hold button ala Zero in UMVC3, then my old Gamecube controller will finally retire.

>her 64 kit might be outdated
>might
That shit has needed to be redone since fucking Melee, how many times has her UpSmash being "fixed"?

Alright. I'm not sure who even outranges swordies aside from the Belmonts though.

Who's more technical?

Shulk

god i love wolf

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Which character do you play?

>What is parry
>what is grab
>what is anything that is faster than 7 frames

faggot detected. Learn to play.

Chrom simply because of jab bair, but neither are even remotely technical.

Don't be up close
Nair is a pretty good "get off me tool"
Use returning Cross side-b to cover your unsafe options based on where you plan on going

All I got

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Down air multiple times to up b is a stair combo, keep in mind that it requires reaction times and quick reflexes.

Rip Shulk whose fastest OOS option is frame 10

Fatass-Hurtbox McPunchingbag right here and a lot of the other heavies like Dorf, K.Rool and Bowser, though I have considered picking up Pac-Man recently

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Don't let Lucina jump for free

He is pretty cute, yeah.

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Those might work if you're playing retard who can't space properly.

So did the buff to Wolf's shine lead to new stuff?

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Isn't Shulk a swordie? Or were you just joking?

Alright.

Also, I completely forgot that I really wanted to pick up Joker but I haven't bought him yet. He seems like a lot of fun. I'll buy the Fighter's Pass after my next paycheck probably.

any other disjoints or projectiles. Megaman, snake, PK kids in the air, other swordies, dedede, etc.

Yeah he is. I misinterpreted your question as saying whose more technical than those two mb

I really wanna get into smash because my best friend/bf is super into it and plays at a pretty high level, but he and his friends consistently thrash me and I feel bad not being able to give them an actual match
and online play is really inconsistent

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>pic related is the only character you can remotely play well as in a serious setting

Feels bad

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You have a local scene?

instead focus on controlling space and outranging them. It's a shame he gets pressured so easily but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

If they're nair spamming you at max range, just take those 7 frames of landing lag they have and just, fucking do something with it. Don't just sit there like a retard. Get moving around. Predict where they're gonna land and punish their airial spam.

Someone said a good OOS option is his up b. Is that true?

yeah, but its mostly the same problem
i'm not really a fighting game player inb4 >smash >fighter and I've got basically nobody to practice with/against that's near enough to my skill level for me to actually learn and not just get juggled for 30 seconds before its over

If you're playing Ridley then get some distance and use fireballs to kill Olimar's pikmin, other than that this is an uphill battle for you. I really can't suggest anything more for you besides picking a secondary. Olimar is that annoying to fight against.

>friend is a manager at arcade
>he's also a TO and hosts tournaments
>help him out and bring my Switch as a set up
>he always waives the venue fee and lets me just play the tournament fee
Feels good

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Anyone got Sonic or Bayonetta tips?

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I main Joker because he was my most wanted, and I really enjoy playing him.
What's the general opinion on Joker mains?

Have you tried anthers ladder for matchmaking? Miles better than what Nintendo has.

It is, though do keep in mind that if it misses then that leaves you wide open to be punished. A good option I recommend is Nair.

>tfw have a local scene
>tfw no car or license yet
>tfw they shut down a local that was really close that fit into my schedule perfectly because of lack of interest
I'm so mad. There's a weekly that I've been thinking about taking the bus to after work but it's on a day where homework is due for me and I always procrastinate really hard. This shouldn't be a problem for me after I get my car though. I just want to get into the scene, improve, and hopefully make some friends.

I haven't, no
what's the advantage?

Honestly he’s one of the most fun chars both playing as and against. I never get salty losing to him.

>and online play is really inconsistent
as in finding good opponents or just connection?
if it is the former you could go on a discord or something to set up an arena

Depending on the next major you're either going to be okay or you're going to get a lot of hate. It depends if MKLeo wins first again.

Better connections and players + better quality matches

I hate how people bash joker because of mkleo.

Next they are gonna complain about Isabelle because this chick beat ally.

Don’t blame you man. I have Asian parents that make me study all the time

>voted for Bayonetta in the Smash 4 ballot
>she ended up being so good that everyone hated her
>now she's nerfed so hard no one uses her
It hurts. She deserves better.

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It be like thag

>Next they are gonna complain about Isabelle because this chick beat ally.
I complain about Isabelle already because I main Ridley.

You lucked out since he's super meta relevant. I wish my most wanted was in the same spot, I'd still being playing him.
Fuck what other people are saying if your goal is to be a good player.

You know what’s surprising.

There hasn’t been a tales rep yet, like moveset would be almost 1 to 1

So far it's the only character I've ever gotten into Elite Smash. I'm overall really happy with him in this game, even though I know he's not great but at least he feels way better than the way he did in Smash 4. I wouldn't mind it if they buffed him in a future patch, but I don't even know what to change.

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I don't see the Fighters Pass having three different JRPG characters at once

I remember when they actually needed DDD in the initial transition

Don't worry friend, she'll get buffed even further in the next patch.

3?
Joker and DQ? What’s the third?

god no. as a k rool main, he gets juggled super easily, can get camped super hard. also his aerials are wayyy too slow especially fair and bair, leavig only nair as a safe option. his grab rangne is trash too annd his cannon genenrally sucks.

The proposed tales rep..

I bet she's going to keep getting buffed. A shame that Smash 4 made everyone hate Bayonetta, her games are great.

>Voted for Wonder Red
>He didn't get in
>The Platinum character that did get in was so strong everybody shat on her
>Then she gets nerfed into near irrelevancy
>Also she has no remixes outside of original tracks that had their lyrics ripped out and got no extra music in Ultimate
>Wonder Red's game has the same two tracks from 4 and no more, not even just adding Tables Turn, while games like Codename STEAM get a brand new remix
It's like extra layers of pain.

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Wait nvm I’m a fucking idiot

Yeah I realized how much of a clown I was user mb

I'm glad she got in. I played as her a bit in 4 but haven't in Ultimate yet. I really want to pick her up and actually get the hang of her combos this time.

I'm still holding out for my boy Wonder Red. I really think it's possible, call me crazy.

I want a gay bf to play smash competitively with...

Real dream right there desu

Oh, Wonder Red was my other vote in addition to Bayonetta. So I at least got one of my wishes.

On fucking god fuck autocorrect

Mii fighters promote degenerate gameplay. I fucking hate them and wish they were never in smash.

Yeah. Her games are real good but Smash babies will sleep on them. Also, has she even gotten buffed yet? I forget. I doubt she'll get any buffs.

Rool was my most requested user, but I dropped him after like a month. Knew he was overrated immediately and everyone in my scene agreed.
Slow aerials, mediocre grounded normals minus ftilt, trouble killing. Best aerial is frame 10, and it's his nair which isn't safe on shield and is too slow to combo break despite the armor.
Neutral B is niche to the point of being almost unusable, crown is good as a tech chase but pretty poor in neutral unless you're under a low plat.
UpB is overrated as a recovery due to no left-right or high-low mixups since you can't cancel it, and you always have to go the same direction basically as soon as you get hit out of it the first time.
Grabs are all pretty alright though, but his standing and dash grab are slow and short, which is amplified by his mediocre dash speed.

If you pick her up, just remember to learn to triple jump (double jump then quickly use your refreshed witch twist to keep the double jump) and keep track of your resources used in flight.

>mfw mii swordie is a better zoner than mii gunner

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I play chrom. It's been rough because Joker''s counter makes it feel impossible for chrom to recover... not sure what to do bros. Might quit, or try to find a different character.

What characters are the "when in doubt, nair it out" characters? As in, which characters have a single objectively fantastic move to just fall back on whenever they fucking want?

Also, rank characters from hardest to ez-mode.

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Pick the superior option Roy

>dropping your most requested
Unbelievably unbased

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palutena, ganon (sort of), link, young link, game and watch (i think) all have great nairs.

Ike is literally nair

are you a based k rool crew member? me too user. tough nowadays

Same here user. His addition would push a port and sequel to reasonable success

>If you pick her up, just remember to learn to triple jump (double jump then quickly use your refreshed witch twist to keep the double jump)
Wait, what?

What kind of nair you after?
Panic buttons/Combo breakers: Mario Bros, Yoshi, A/Y Link, Pacman etc.
Combo starters: Most swords, Falcon, ZSS, Wario etc.
I have one button and I must use it: Fox, Wolf, Megaman, Incin

All that matters is that I can finally play with my most wanted.

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its nice except when you don't know how to play smash so you sit on a couch while he and his college friends play smash together

The characters that come to my mind are Ridley, Ike, Palutena, and Wario to a little degree.

Bayonetta was nearly unsuable at first but after the last patch she has gotten a lot better and is at least usable.
The issue with Bayonetta is that its hard to get a kill, she doesnt have one thing she can spam to get a guaranteed kill except maybe back air but even that has a small hitbox, specially with smaller characters (or im just really bad using it). Then you have witch time that if you fuck up you get punished hard, so its not a counter you can spam constantly, and then when you do get a hit you have to act SUPER fast because its not as long as in Smash 4, and sometimes the motherfuckers can hit you while they're slowed down, or they can manage to block/dodge an attack. Then you have her smash attacks that take while to start so people can easily shield, and hell even short characters like Pichu and Olimar dont get hit even by standing literally next to you. Down Smash is only usable on ledge for spike kills, its what it was created for. Her dash attack can kill at high % and near the ledge. Her down air is kinda suicidal, it spikes but only her foot does, whereas other characters like Pichu got their entire big head as a hitbox that can spike, so it can very risky as her recovery isnt even that good.
And you can use bullets to gimp opponents, specially when they are charged but eh, its not that reliable.
That being said, she is a lot of fun to play with, I hope she gets buffed more.

gunner is easily the worst of the 3 and i'm surprised some people still haven't caught on to that

>tfw learning to play Smash because my bf is a fighting games fiend who goes to tournies all over the country

I suck but I'm finally learning the basics. I can actually shield now.

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I feel like the tiers of this game are either unexplored or the game is a lot more balanced than past smash games. I play Little Mac a lot and have really good success with him. Also Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr. I feel like people are still going on early impressions of characters from all the back when the early trailers of Ultimate came out, and basing their whole tiers on that, without having delved into the characters.

Fuck Sakurai for that shit so hard.

Jumping or taking damage refreshes Witch Twist. Damage can refresh your 2nd ABK.
You can cancel your double jump just as the wings come out by quickly doing your 2nd Witch Twist (assuming you did one prior, because you shouldn't waste resources) and keep your double jump for later.
Comes in handy when going air-to-air, you can keep the double Witch Twist as long as you keep your double jump, also allows you to go extremely deep off stage but have the double jump -> air dodge to make it back.
Lima, the Bayo that cause a massive bitch-fest in the mirror match stall finals, was playing again after saying he was quiting a few weeks ago in Texus. You can see how insane the follows up if you keep/count your resources.

Ult is objectively the most balance smash game thus far. The team working on patches have done a good job so far.

They hired people who understand competitive Smash to work on Ultimate and its patches. AMSa is named in the credits.

>so far there is no broken OP character like Brawl Meta Knight and 4 Bayonetta
I pray the DLC doesn't fuck this up and brings a new scale of bullshit.

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>inb4 its banjo thats absolutely broken

Thanks, user.

Honestly I want ult to bring in melee movement but make it much more accessible to newer players.

Hero is going to need some really high execution requirements or massive flaws (beyond limited MP, unless it's per-game and not per-stock) to balance out what his magic seems capable of. Banjo seems like a solid Mid Tier based on the tools he showed in his trailer.

All dlc is gonna be high tier. It will sell

>Honestly I want ult to bring in melee movement but make it much more accessible to newer players.
FUCK, I want this so fucking badly, you don't even know. Literally what I want out of my dream Smash game, plus parrying and maybe a new mechanic or two.

This mother fucker right here is one of the most slept on characters in the game. Crazy good Ariel moves, a command grab that combos into tilts that can and will kill, some of the best smash attacks in the game. Not top tier but like to top of mid tier because of an okay at best recovery.

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Joker isn't high tier.

Why don't you ask him to teach you...
I taught my friend, who doesnt play any videogames at all except on her phone, and while i still wrecked her, she is pretty alright and can understand recoveries.

If I had a bf and friends that played better than me I would love to learn, but sadly im the best one in my friends circle and im not even that good.

I main random, but I want buffs to Marth, Isabelle, Pit, and Mac.
Nerfs to Peach, Wolf, Pichu, and Villager.
and QoL changes to everyone else

Will counters finally get that dumb buff removed in 6, or even better, get deleted entirely? I dont see how forcing a player to be more careful with combos is fun, its basically a free mental fuckup. Atleast the instant nairs some characters have isnt a fucking kill move

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I could see Banjo being mid to high tier, not top tier. He looks like he has disjoints and he obviously has a move that makes him invincible and stuff. I highly doubt he'll be horrible, but I also doubt he'll be top tier.

>Everybody absolutely fucking despises Banjo and openly wants him gone or butchered for next game
Such a juicy turn of events that would be.

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the banjobros win, but at what cost?

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You’re right. He’s top tier mb

>want to play other characters
>main is literally so fucking fun I don't want to switch
I was messing around in training mode today and found out that below 50%, Inkling's nair can chain into another nair and force a tech situation, if they pick the wrong option they get rollered and if they don't tech then you can do two jabs into Up Smash for a ~45% combo. You can also do reverse nair > bair > grab >uthrow uair which also does a little under 50%.
Also apparently you can chain the back hit of up tilt into itself and aerials, I thought that move was ass but even it has a use. I love playing Inkling so much, no other character even comes close.

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There’s an idiot who shows up in my areas arenas who will do nothing but spam ike’s Nair until one lands into a combo. Nothing PP’s spike ball can’t handle

>I main random

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Happy to help.
I know way too much about most of the cast.

Inklings are definitely one of the best. Crazy combos and splat bomb is so versatile while also being powerful.

>Also, has she even gotten buffed yet? I forget.
Yes. And she'll get more.

>Hero is released in Summer
I hope that doesn't mean August. I know most game companies do that shit, but I don't know how they plan to release the next 4 characters by February at the rate they're going.

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It’s what rivals did and it worked.
Since this is basically sakurais magnum opus, I hope he hands it off to someone willing to experiment

>jokerfag teabagging me as im losing hard, 1-3
>barely make a comeback and win
Is there a better feeling

I'd bet Hero will be July, Banjo will be October, Fighter 4 will be December and Fighter 5 will be February.

I have a head canon that all the third parties like to go out to eat every few weeks and just hang. Sometimes they talk about how cool it is to be in the same game as icons like Mario and Link, and others they talk about their recent game adventures. For Ultimate, Sonic was excited that Snake was back because they were the first two third parties in the series.

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Hero -> Late July
Banjo ->Mid/Late October
DLC 4 -> Announced in a direct in Early November. Released in late December or first week of January.
DLC5 -> Announced at the Game Awards (for a full circle moment). Released in February 29th :v)

>Released in February 29th :v)
That's my birthday, so that'd be rad.

> these two are the last two dlc character.
How would you feel?

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Meta's okay, every day i'm learning something new. I still have no idea how to properly approach any of the Star Fox trio on any of my mains.
I wish the change out Kirby's side-B to something more useful along with changing his Smash attacks to work like his canon copy abilities like Megaman has.

Norris is already in tekken and square is too fucking stingy with FF so it won’t happen

If your main doesn't start with Little and end with Mac no matter what, I don't wanna hear it.

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You're either an old man or underageb&

Little “Shulk” Mac

Both were fucking failures in Square Enix attempting to make cool and deep characters in a non-sensical genre.
>Noctis: "We want the Sasuke audience."
>Lightning: "A-Am I female Cloud yet?"

Little Rosalina and Luma Mac

If being 23 makes me an old man, then ok.

I kinda hope they release a second DLC wave (maybe focused on first party?), but I think that might actually kill Sakurai, not to mention the stage selection list had the 5 open spots for the DLC that was planned already, so i think they dont have more planned.

However if they do start a second wave, they should probably do it in like 2021, to give the game a breath of fresh air, because considering how they want the Switch to have a longer lifetime than usual consoles, we might not get a new reveal trailer for a smash bros character until 2025-2026 when the next installment, in whatever the next console is, is announced.
Like Smash Wii U got stale fast, if Ult gets stale we are gonna be waiting for several years until a new smash game

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A lot of Joker players are serious tryhards

based macbro

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Honestly they should do first party.
I wanna play as monado boi 2

Elmas rad too

How dare you play me like this, have you no soul?

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Joker could technically be named Little Mac if you want.

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...

Has CaptainZack come out as gay yet?

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I like gunner. Her uair and utilities brutal, and her Fsmash is a great punisher. Dunking with lunar launch feels great

Still hate him for s4 evo

Shut up pup.

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His aerials are amazing. Also I find it hilarious his aerials are better than a chunk of the "flight"-based characters despite a character being reliant on the ground.

So just like VGC then, heh.

Fucking Ness, little shit spams Nair out of shield or out of any situation where the enemy is up close.

Wut? I love his "chad stride" like the ones done by Tom's hoodlums.

Does anyone else find whiff punishing hard in Ultimate? It seems like moving in to punish things doesn't work because everything has such low lag. Feels like I should just projectile camp instead.

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Not just you man

I main Corrin and I like the current meta
The buffs were great, the only thing Corrin needs right now is a better aerial speed so they can have a better combo game

Also D3 shits on them really hard because Corrin lacks a reliable horizontal kill move

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Me and a friend made a tier list r8

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Used to resent the meta a bit for being so focused on safe aerials. But after adapting and learning to just throw out safe moves myself, it's really fun. Well, this playstyle doesn't really apply while using Bayo. And while she may have a hard time killing now, goddamn she is fun to play. Her smash attacks are a bit fucked up though, honestly can't think of a character with worse smash attacks.

ice climbers are certainly mid tier, not low tier. doc should be way lower. ganon too. diddy is mid tier. olimar is mid tier. mii swordfighter is bottom of mid tier.

I used to love smash 4 Corrin but, even after the recent buffs, ult Corrin honestly feels like one of the stiffest non-characters in the whole game.

Why is Ken upper mid

I hope someday somebody will look at me the same way Robin looks at Chrom

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Bayo is probably mid but she is definitely not the best mid tier.

Plant has legit good moves, the problem is that their attributes are shit.

Pls pls pls either give link more range or make him faster

As an Ike main I don't really feel like he should be that high. Once you fight enough Ikes, you find out his entire meta has one of the most readable characters in the game.

stage control basically, throw grenades at specific spots put the c4 in a particular spot and throw em into said spots, or you could play defensive and just throw shit at your opponent

Pacmains are the most up-themselves group of players since smash 4 falcon try-hards.

playing one character is boring, why play one when you have a chance of playing 20?

His predictably and lack of a versatile moveset is literally what keeps him from being top-tier.
Aside from Ganon, Ike is the most dangerous non-heavy to approach.

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Icies imo rely to much on desyncs to be good as well as Nana being fucking retarded. I could see a case for lower mid my friend thought she was way lower. I don't actually think Doc or Ganon are that bad, Ganon is pretty good I think. Recovery buffs really helped diddy and he's got annoying ass options I can understand him just being mid tho. Sword fighter was my friends pick I agree with you desu.
If you think he's to high. His buffs were pretty helpful. To low, they weren't that good

what would it take for the best waifu to become top tier without being broken, user?

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why are Leon and Panther surprised? I get a feeling them know that fact.

power bottom wolf ftw

It ain't ordered except for top tier

She needs to be revamped desu
Her moveset is a mishmash of different tools that makes her half a zoner.

>tfw have too much fun playing too many different characters
I'm the 2nd best of my friends and I don't play myself much, but the best of us beats my ass with DK and falcon all the time by a long shot most of the time
I like playing Ganon, Incineroar, Wolf and Mewtwo but I always get blasted and while I could probably do better if I stuck with one they and a few others I play from time to time are too fun

Are people still asshurt about Inkling? I haven't kept up with what people have been saying lately.

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About how boring they are?
Yeah sure.

If you're the 2nd best you and your friends must all really, really suck at this game

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Shut up stinkling main.

We're all pretty bad yeah, to his credit my friend (the good one) is in elite, I'm ~3.5m GSP

I only get asshurt about tryhard inklings that do nothing but run around and avoid you for 90% of the match, end it with stalling and then spamming roller.
Bonus points if they stand on the other side of the stage and throw splat bombs just to stall.

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I love how Incineroar's variations of Whip have uses.

>general use? timed b
>up in the air? early b
>additional recovery? late b

Well, at least one of your friends can pose a challenge. I have this friend who is pretty much the only one I can play Smash with and it's been 5 whole months and he still can't beat me.

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F A S T E R

Inkling has fantastic fucking normals, I don't get people who want to run away

i always like to think after a fine day of smashing they chill and have big bbqs.

Wolf definitely likes big bbqs

>only person to play Smash with is my best friend since elementary
>we're both pretty close in skill so we have a fuckton of fun playing every time
Feels good.
I do wish he would play the games I try and introduce him to though

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Thanks, i was looking for more fun shit to do as woomy

>tfw bodying people at 4.9 million with wii fit
>tfw you take a final stock with a smash attack and she says a quote

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dude are you me? im the exact same except he recommends me games

>was a Pac-main
>play more YLink instead
I want Pac to be a little heavier and quicker honestly. Online sucks ass. Stage builder is getting better (look at the popularity sec.). Got all spirits and challenges. end of blog.
I want Crash as DLC.

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Pac honestly should be a little heavier.

Neither of them are worthy to claim Wolf ass.

I'm actually glad Spirit Board enjoys giving you spirits you don't have. It's not full RNG.

Well duh.

Stinkling niggers are braindead zoofilic pedofiles who do nothing but dash dance like retards while spamming bair 90% of the match with the occasional jab or fish grab. Braindead cocksucker playing an easy mode character.

It feels like most people play him in a very campy or overly aggressive way. You either frustrate them into impatience. Or stay on there asses until they make a mistake or panic. He doesn't feel too strong or too weak, but man if there isn't a million and one ways to counter his bullshit. I don't understand why a lot of people online complain against fighting Mega Man. He has a lot of drawbacks in exchange for what he is good at.

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>He's not even a bad assist Trophy

Him and Rathalos are in their own special tier of assists I never wanna see show up.

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Can I get tips on how to play Mega Man?

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I get rathalos but Zero? lmao he's easy to predict and his GENMUZERO can be reflected

I play link and megaman feels like he invalidates my entire moveset just by using two moves. Pellets remove any form of projectile I have and his fair is fast and disjointed enough to beat my aerials. Got any tips on how to beat him?

It depends on where to start. I guess is to not rely on Metal Blade too much. Use it for faking out your opponent or making them cautious to approach you. Learn how to Z-Drop and re-grab the blade in the air between moves and even in short hop. You might have to re-assign your button layout to make this easier. Jump lemons are your friend to keep people off of you. Purposefully randomize your timing on lemons. Don't just spam all three of them. This really fucks with people's rhythm and momentum. Crash Bomb... A lot more. Use it when they miss a tech, normal recover from ledge or roll from ledge, recovering, ect. Crash bomb does a lot because it forces a response even if it's just shield which means shield break potential. Or it forces them to chase you down. Just be careful of people who can catch your Metal Blade. You have a lot of combo's that work on you with your own Metal Blade. I would also use Rush when they spawn after a stock loss to cause more confusion.

>tfw cpus know how to z-drop but not me

help, I always end up tossing shit forward

You may only reply to this post if your main is completely honest

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Rocket kick is even more satisying.

>Someone without disjoints tries to Gimp
>NO U them with the explosion hitbox and watch them vanish into the shadow realm

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Use your regular shield, not bubble shield to stop the lemons. Also try to memorize the range of Mega Man's Bair and Fair. Try to grab and take his Metal Blade from him. When megaman throws his metalblade at you, rush attack him. almost always, you'll catch the metalblade and you'll be able to punish his standing lag. keep constant pressure on him. Mega Man doesn't like heavy rushdown. I would go into stock battle with two controllers and test which of your moves out prioritize his. Try short-hopping over his spamming of projectiles, and striking with an aerial. Watch out for his forward-dash, though.
Since he has a bit of lag after throwing out a projectile, any move that's generally fast should work. Do note I have not fought many Link's in general. I don't know why.

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Generally Mega Man has the most trouble with fast, rushdown approaches. Running at him and power shielding his projectiles is a good way to close the distance. Mega Man also doesn't have the best roll punishes. They're either safe and do low damage if they hit (pellets, metal blade) or require a commitment (usmash, fsmash, dsmash) that can be punished on whiff. So rolling toward or behind him can actually be viable sometimes, and is less risky than it would be against, say, Mario. Some characters can also straight outcamp. Fox can run away and spam lasers, and the only thing we can do in reaponse is send out two slow-moving and easily blocked projectiles (Crash Bomber and Leaf Shield), or try to close the distance. Usually even a campy Mega Man will opt to do the latter. However if the Mega Man decides to play a bit of a rushdown playstyle, most always a running downtilr, bair, or fair is a given. Also be careful if Mega Man short hop throws a Metal Blade or throws it at you at close range. He has a kill confirm with utilt at around 80% on almost everyone.

This should help. Generally you just have to get use to fighting him. He can be played many different ways since he is very versatile and there is a lot of tech and brains behind him unless you just want to camp&spam. I have played him since Smash4 and I like where he currently is at. Like I said before. He doesn't feel too bullshit nor does he feel useless. But I can understand why he gets a bad rep for being boring and campy with his playstyle half the time.

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>Daisy x3
>Zelda w/ Hilda's alt x2

Just gonna dump some opinions

>Two things that frustrate me about how Smash Ultimate's has been approached so far are the fact that people seem to think a character having a bad matchup is suddenly game-breaking, and that the lack of understanding of the aspect that a character HAS to be the worst.
>You've probably seen it posted before, but I REALLY agree with that copypasta that states MKLeo's success comes from him not being a one-trick pony, not to discredit his skill. He's beaten Supermajors with 4 different characters, 3 of which haven;t been replicated by anyone else.
>I think Bowser Jr. is one of the most misunderstood and misplaced characters in the game. His combos, kill power, neutral, OOS, andAdvantage are all decent to excellent, his Disadvantage is his one major flaw. I've legit seen people call Mechakoopa and Clown Cannon two of the worst projectiles in the game, which is a ludicrous statement if you have an inkling of how his moves function and flow. He's gotten a buff to nearly everything Armada, the only pro player who actually bothered to point out his specific flaws, mentioned in his post-2.0.0 vid. Something's up; I feel his Smash 4 rep is really dragging him down here and he can't escape it due to said rep. It's a vicious cycle that's been eating lower tier characters alive the entire series, but it really sucks in Ultimate because it's the best in that regard by a mile

is this ZeRo

>BJr isn't bad
absolutely agree, he's probably low midtier, but anyone thinking he's "bottom 5" has never actually thought critically about the character and has only seen top player opinions from people that have also never bothered to think critically about the character since he has 0 representation.

Do my opinions really sound so similar to his?

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A-teir soon my brother

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I don't think you can think critically about a character you don't frequently play as. That's why I don't trust anyone's gay tier list since everybody only sticks to a handful of characters when there's a roster of over 70.

I kinda sorta wanted them to
>Pic related
It's one of my post from an old smash thread

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I think you could look at their tools in a vacuum and understand matchups to a degree. You can critically think about how the character functions on paper, and I think if you do that for BJr you see he's not that bad.
Between SideB, uair, fair, bair, fsmash, and jab, he's got a lot of good buttons.