SA2 is the best 3D Sonic

sa1>sa2
cd>3&k

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I love both of those games.

>cd>
Opinion Invalidated

I can understand SA1, but why CD over S3&K? Aside from the soundtrack, 3&K is better in every way in my opinion.

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Me too. It's why I automatically discard any arguments about Sonic level design or Dimps or whatever. These games were never hard and le boost 2 win is scarcely any different than roll 2 win. The whole point of these games is mostly visual flair, with seeing how many fancy jumps you can chain together being a nice bonus. Even Sonic 4 has a decent amount of both qualities.

I honest to god don't understand how people prefer SA1 to SA2 but I like both games either way so doesn't matter that much. They're flawed, but ambitious 3D platformers in an era where basically every 3D platformer besides Sonic was about collecting Stars/Jigs/Creatures to progress(Mario/Banjo/Croc/Donkey Kong)

>Even sonic 4
woah there. This is where we disagree. Don't ever speak to me about dumpster fire of a game again.

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I'm the exact reverse. Everything that SA2 does is basically just a worse version of something that SA1 did. Even all the musical remixes of SA1 tracks are inferior to their SA1 versions, every single one. I don't understand SA2niggers.

Mania is good, but it's a "best of" album, not an entirely original game.

They get hated because they are blamed by many for the Sonic 2006 disaster

Most games from that Era aged poorly even if they were critical darlings at the time, the Adventure series just gets more flack for it because of 06

Mania is fine but it just owes too much of it's DNA to the likes of CD and S3&K.

If Mania Team made a new original game without re-uding levels it would probably be the GOAT.

Why is there no mod that makes Sonic 3&K have Sonic Mania physics? That’s the only reason I enjoy Mania slightly more than 3, it’s just so fluid to play

The sonic and shadow levels are MUCH better than the Sonic/Tails stages in SA1. The score system and ranking system are MUCH better in SA2. The Eggman/Tails stages are better than the E-102 Gamma stages. Knuckles stages are better in SA2. Big the Cat stages are trivial and may as well not be there, you can get froggy within a minute on every stage and Amy stages are extremely slow.

Finally the final boss is better. Let's be honest, why during the 2nd phase of the final Chaos fight does the music suddenly and jarringly shift from open your heart to some generic end of the world music?

I really could go on, but I still like SA1. It's just that SA2 is blatantly better and I'll never understand you guys.

Episode 2 and Metal are decent though.
When people say 'Sonic 4 sux' it's always some Wii/iOS Episode 1 port that becomes exhibit A.

Like people who use Big's Fishing as if it's the only part of SA1 that exists.
>I honest to god don't understand how people prefer SA1 to SA2
Most SA1 fans weren't exposed to it through trashy DX ports.

There's no connection. I prefer SA1 and I think Heroes is a big step down from both SA1 and 2.

>The Eggman/Tails stages are better than the E-102 Gamma stages. Knuckles stages are better in SA2.
but that's just factually and actually wrong. I don't know what to say.

The real reason SA2 is better is because the Chao Garden in SA2 completely and utterly shits on SA1. At least SA1 has the comfy hub world going for it. And Speed Highway. God I love Speed highway.

>most SA1 fans didn't play DX first
It still doesn't change what makes SA2 better though. Quite seriously everything was refined and made better in 2. I legit don't understand what makes SA1 better. It sure as hell isn't the stages or the characters you get to play as. Amy and Big suck bro.

>I don't know what to say
Happens when you're wrong about something I guess.

>When people say sonic 4 sux they just didn't play episode 2 or didn't play it on Xbox/Ps3
I played it on Xbox. It fucking sucked. Both episodes.

>The sonic and shadow levels are MUCH better than the Sonic/Tails stages in SA1
They're way jerkier and the nerfed spindash makes me mad. You move way too loosely and arbitrarily have to slow down whenever you need to somersault. I also do not enjoy the overreliance on light dashing SA2 has

>The score system and ranking system are MUCH better in SA2
Who even cares? Ranks aren't necessary for anything important in SA1, unlike SA2 where you have to go autism mode to get Green Hill

> The Eggman/Tails stages are better than the E-102 Gamma stages
Exact same deal as with Sonic and Shadow. Gamma moves way faster and more precisely than Eggman/Tails and goes through levels built mostly for speed characters so it's a much more fun ordeal all around

>Knuckles stages are better in SA2
Now that's just a lie and you know it

>Amy stages are extremely slow.
And yet they're still faster than anything that isn't Sonic or Shadow in SA2

>Finally the final boss is better
I don't really like either final boss, but at least Chaos had some actual level design to it and wasn't just awkward hovering

it's more suited to my style of play and i prefer the surreal fantasy aesthetic. i get why people don't like it though, the level design isn't as streamlined as 3&k and time travel is hard to get the hang of.

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Yes. It fundamentally has the best elements in Sonic. Just combine Advance 3's teamplay with Plus's Encore Mode version and Sonic has reached pure 2D kino. It call it bad is saying Sonic was never good tier, don't be that asshole.

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>Sonic 4 you mean mania right

No shit
>Mastering Sonic = easy mode
No shit
No shit

This is like saying NSMB was too easy after playing the classics for 10+. These games were never hard, you were a retarded kid, every game was hard to you back then.

>They're way jerkier and the nerfed spindash makes me mad. You move way too loosely and arbitrarily have to slow down whenever you need to somersault. I also do not enjoy the overreliance on light dashing SA2 has
Jerkier? I never noticed. I replay both games from time to time and it feels fine. Git gud.

>Who even cares?
People that enjoy going for high scores

>Gamma moves faster so the levels are better
I mean, in both I just rotate the stick and spam missles for top ranks. They're both fun, but the levels weren't really designed for Gamma. You admit this. To me, this makes the levels in SA2 better. They're made for Tails/Eggman and feel better to replay.

>Now that's just a lie and you know it
They're too easy in SA1 and you know it.

>And yet they're still faster than anything that isn't Sonic or Shadow
You must not have replayed the Amy stages in some time. They're quite seriously the slowest content in any Sonic video game in the history of the entire franchise.

>At least chaos had some actual level design
Yeah press forward and go through speed pads to touch the boss to damage it. Really great level design. At least Final Hazard poses some resistance, even if its still easy the boss actually attacks you and can hit you. I don't think Chaos ever has damaged me, even when I was 10.

The only sonic games I can say I really enjoy are 2, 3&K, Mania, SA1, SA2, and Generstionso/spoiler]

Everything else is either majorly flawed or just bad

In my opinion Sonic Mania wasn't even that good. I liked Sonic Rush way more!

SA2's Sonic levels are a little too hallway-esque for my taste. 1's levels have a lot more platforming and variety. Couple this with the busted ass spindash and moving Sonic around these levels feels more fun, precise, and satisfying.
SA2 has better side content for sure but I'm only really interested in playing through the main game as just Sonic and 2 doesn't even give that option.

>Amy moves faster than SA2 characters
is this some kind of joke? No she doesn't. Go zoom around Meteor Herd in SA2 then get back to me

tbf name any classic Sonic game you can literally hold down from start to finish, and basically hit top speed 24/7 doing so. Just saying.
Only Unleashed and Rush punished you for boosting nonstop. Forces actively encourages it.

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Rush, outside of the soundtrack and aesthetic, is genuinely bad. I played it for the first time recently and I dont understand why anyone would ever recommend it. Grab the OST and be done with it

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>They're quite seriously the slowest content in any Sonic video game in the history of the entire franchise.
Isn't Big slower than Amy, or am I remembering it wrong?

What the actual fuck? What was bad about it in your opinion? I thought it was a solid 2D platformer a la Advance with the boost formular that even punished you for overuse.
Yet high speed was intact, platforming was available, solid story with ending that satisfies you (if you got all chaos emeralds) and yeah... have you played Sonic Rush Adventure? I liked that game less. Though it was still cool.

Mania got a decent discount on the current sale.

>muh halways
You know what, I can get behind this perspective. As I said I like both a lot, just prefer SA2. I revisit SA1 for different reasons and that's ok.

Technically but you can fish up froggy in like a minute or less unless you're retarded so you don't have to suffer for very long. Amy you HAVE to reach the end of the stage.

Rush is a 6/10 game with a 9/10 OST

>Jerkier? I never noticed.
Yes, that's the main difference between SA1 and SA2 Sonic aside from the spindash. You tilt the stick 15 degrees left in SA1 and Sonic will move 15 degrees left. In SA2, he will move about 45 degrees left.

>They're made for Tails/Eggman and feel better to replay.
The difference here is thinking about which one feels more fitting to a Sonic game. Gamma's levels aren't designed for him, but unlike with Tails and Eggman, they can take advantage of his top speed.

>They're too easy in SA1 and you know it.
They're also extremely easy in SA2. They're just artificially more tedious. SA2 Knuckles stages also have the same problem I listed above for Gamma. They're designed less like a linear speed level and more like an open world treasure hunt, and so you can't actually use Knuckles's top speed even if he can technically move faster than Amy.

>They're quite seriously the slowest content in any Sonic video game in the history of the entire franchise.
Come now. They aren't Sonic Labyrinth or Tails Adventure. Again, Knuckles and Rouge can technically move faster, but thanks to the way their levels are designed, you're not going to get any speed out of them. And I'm pretty sure Tails and Eggman move at the same speed or slower.

The Chaos Emeralds were easy as fuck though. The real hard(er) things were the orb bonus levels

I notice a lot of people don't really catch on that you can instantly get Amy to top speed simply by using by using her hammer attack in midair

I've not played rush adventure. My general greviances with the game include

>enemy trap rooms that lock you in and force you to kill things that spawn over time. Possible the dumbest addition to a sonic game ever conceived
>the agrreguous and flagrant use of bottomless pits. It's one thing to punish boosting, it's another to have stages have random fall off points that instantly kill you without any sort of tell what so ever (the amusement park was notorious with this)
>the bosses are so fucking dull and they drag on and know and on. I generally dont like bosses in sonic games either way but these were particularly awful
>how many fucking times do you run away from a giant ball down a slope. The set pieces were overused to the point of tedium. It would be one thing if they were thematically unique between zones but they're not

Sorry, didn't like it at all. I'm sure it's more fun when you know the stages in and out and speed run, but I didn't enjoy the base game enough to bother, unlike with 3 and Mania

huh, that never hampered my ability to play the game and 100% it, nor did it harm my enjoyment. go figure.

>They're also extremely easy in SA2
Getting a high score in them isn't that easy, especially when you're new to them. We're two different types of players I guess. I really like to get better times and better scores, so they really win out by default. Exploring the levels is more fun in SA2 as well so take that as you will. You found them tedious, I didn't. I think at the very least we can both agree that those stages aren't why we like these games.

The amy stages may not be sl or Tails adventure but holy fuck are they a slog. I always hated them.

The orbs alone, easy.
The orbs, turning them beforehand into rings, hard as fuck.

>People that enjoy going for high scores
Autism. Literalyl the only reason this was inventented was for MULTIPLAYER games, aka, arcade era. When it's singleplayer it's fucking pointless (pun unintended)

You're like my mother back in the 90s telling me to get all the "coins" in Mario and Sonic when this isn't fucking Pac Man. I don't HAVE to do this to play the game, and I'm not beating out other people skill, so why bother? If SEGA ain't going to add online play to Sonic, remove the fucking score system ffs.

her top speed is still shit

>!
kys

>Autism
I'm not but okay.

>You're like my mother telling me to get all the coins
Except I'm not. I haven't told you to do anything and admitted that we are two different types of players. What's up with the chip on your shoulder bro?

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>nor did it harm my enjoyment. go figure.
It did for me. SA2 Sonic and Shadow don't have broken controls per se and I could still 100% the game with them, but I do feel like I have to make too many course corrections with them whenever I'm playing with them that I just don't have to make with SA1.

ok

Why? I'm trying to portray the importance of my statement by an exclamation mark. You in return come with a reddit tier faggot answer. Stop replying to my posts if you're being off-topic.

>You tilt the stick 15 degrees left in SA1 and Sonic will move 15 degrees left. In SA2, he will move about 45 degrees left.
So you're telling me they purposely went from 360 analog control to 8 directional movement? What the absolute fuck? They literally did the same shit with Lost World/Forces.

Ever play NiGHTS? You should it's great and all about going for high scores.

Fair enough. Again, I still like SA1. Different strokes.

Personally hope for a day where they take another stab at this type of game. This time polishing it all up very nicely. Who am I kidding though? This is SEGA.

>>SA2 is tied for the best 3D Sonic with Gens
K is tied for the best 2D Sonic with Mania Plus
>>they're both great games
ftfy

>I'm not but okay.
>Posts on Yea Forums

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>SA2
>best 3D Sonic
>3D Sonic game where only 1/3 of it is good
>best 3D Sonic
SA1 is better.

The point of that game is that though. That's literally it's gameplay, unlike Sonic fundamentally.

Sonic Adventure 2 improved upon the original in pretty much every way. There are a few exceptions but overall it is superior.
>although I prefer SA1's visuals (DC not the god awful DX remaster) overall, SA2 has fantastic graphics for its time and the characters look much more on-model to their concept art
>Shooting and Hunting stages have been fleshed out in good ways to further separate them as gameplay styles from SA1, most characters in SA1 just felt like a variation on Sonic while SA2's has each feeling distinct, both have more content to them and explore their gameplay style a lot better than SA1, which was content with merely having them exist
>Chao are actually fun now since the system has been dramatically improved overall from SA1, and are now an actual reason to play the game rather than a dumb side thing that you still need to beat to get all the emblems
>speaking of emblems, SA2 actually rewards the player for getting all the emblems (it still isn't worth doing, but at least they give you SOMETHING)
>story overall is better, SA1's Rashomon-style presentation was a nice attempt but fell flat since the story wasn't actually complex, just drawn out with a lot of pointlessness (including pretty much anything anyone does if they aren't Sonic, Tails, or Knuckles), SA2's story isn't exactly complex, but it works for what it is, the story itself is better, and it's told in a better way
>SA2's Level 'Missions' are better than SA1's, for the most part (can't cheese them like in SA1 due to how restarting is changed
But
>SA1 has the better OST even though both are really good, even for their franchise
>Sonic's style of gameplay feels a little better. SA2's is very "execute the moves correctly, figure out how to do the level efficiently and rack up the most points", while SA1's feel more like classic Sonic levels. SA1's Sonic stages have more to explore and find as well as being way easier to break completely with spindashes.

yes we're all autistic here friend. you're one of us rest assured.

The real reason would obviously be that I'm posting in a Sonic thread not that I'm on Yea Forums.

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Yeah and it's fun despite not being multiplayer. Though they did add a leaderboard in the most recent release, but that shit's full of hackers.

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I like all 4 of those games

>The point of that game is that though. That's literally it's gameplay, unlike Sonic fundamentally.
The point of Sonic's gameplay in Adventure 2 is going for high scores. That's also why A-ranks even exist. Obviously the game developers wanted you to go for high scores, which is why high scores even exist and they literally reward you for getting them (A-rank Emblems). If going for high scores is autistic, just know that the game wants you to go for them.

>that shits full of hackers
just like every single fucking leaderboard on planet earth
>buy mega man legacy collection
>get a great run on Mega Man 7 wily challenge, beat the bastard in personal record time
>look where I place
>the first fifty are people with 00:00:01 times
what the fuck is the point dude? Why do they do this? Everyone KNOWS they hacked.

>most characters in SA1 just felt like a variation on Sonic
>mfw Sonic 2/3K/Advance series/Rush/Mania are considered the best games in the series, metascore wise and fanbase wise

And inb4 Heroes, Heroes gameplay fundamentally suck donkey shit, the teamplay wasn't the bad part of the game. Otherwise ShTH using the same fucking gameplay engine wouldn't have been that shit.

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I really don't get why going for personal high scores is considered autistic. It's pretty fun to improve. It's not like I obsess over it and ree that I'm not the best in the world.

Also, the stages in SA2 can be pretty 'stylish" if you're skilled. It's similar to SA1 but the 'cuhrayzee' factor is turned up a bit. I totally get why someone would prefer SA1 but its SA2 for me.

Funnily the autism around the fanbase persist from SA2
Also funnily enough the game WAS meant to have online mode for the game, but it got scrapped. So instead of rebooting the game, they just kept it in.

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>the autism in the sanic fanbase persists from SA2
>posts mighty

>>mfw Sonic 2/3K/Advance series/Rush/Mania are considered the best games in the series, metascore wise and fanbase wise
My point is that in comparing Adventure 1 to Adventure 2, I like SA2 more, partly because of how the game developed the different gameplay styles. If that's the point of Sonic Adventure to begin with, having gameplay styles other than Sonic's and trying to form distinctions between them, then SA2 does it better. I will randomly throw out that technically, SA1's "play the characters you want in basically any order" style worked better for story mode than SA2's "play a roulette of the 3 gameplay styles to progress in the story"'s style. In the end, you're just going to play through the story once on a file, though, so it's not that important.

Nice boogeyman.

nah mighty is mah nigga too. just givin ya shit.

If they ever did a remake of the Adventure games and made SA2 Sonic and SA1 Sonic play identical, I would probably like it more

You know what would be cool? A full-on Sonic Adventure 1 remake. Like, $60 AAA remake. Totally look at SA1 from the ground up, learn from its mistakes, and fix its issues while keeping the game itself intact. I couldn't care less about another rerelease of the DX port, it literally gets worse every time it gets ported somehow.

SA2 only does it better if you value you difference for the sake of difference. Most of the fanbase considers S3K a better game than SA2, and its playable characters have much smaller differences between them than SA2's characters do. They even go through mostly the same levels. And it works, because it feels more like a Sonic game should play like than the alternate characters in SA2.

You know what other game does the same thing? Heroes. And to that extent, I enjoy Heroes a lot more than I do SA2 as well.

Would love that, and SA2 as well. However I can also see some of the downsides if it ever were to be done

>Most of the fanbase considers S3K a better game than SA2, and its playable characters have much smaller differences between them than SA2's characters do.
I actually consider Sonic Adventure 2 to be a solid 6.5, maybe 7/10 at most on a great day, so yeah, I agree that S3&K is the objectively superior game. I was just talking about the difference between Adventure 2 (to me, a slightly above average game) and Adventure 1 (to me, a game with a lot of ambition that ended up a 3.5/10 that turned into a 3/10 with the ports)
Yes, I do consider Sonic Adventure 2 the best 3D Sonic game. That's because none of the rest of them are above a 6/10 IMO other than SA2.

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Sonic Adventure [if you literally only play the DC version as Sonic and somehow skip the cutscenes] - 6/10
Sonic Adventure [full game] - 3.5/10, maybe, MAYBE a 4/10 on the greatest of days

It would be ideal, because it's logical. I just can't believe it though, I thought controlling Sonic/Shadow in SA2 was off, I even recording myself doing shit in the game a while back and noticed it... among other things.

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I played Adventure and Adventure 2 for the first time in 2017 and when I started 2 it was the first thing I noticed alongside the small delay before Sonic and Shadow would charge the Spin Dash