Jenova

For what purpose?

Dude don't worry it's just a dark soul's enemy.

Eye titty.

It's just how it lives.
It's part of it's lifecycle.

A man of true culture i see

what game?

>The ethics committee subdued Tifa's tifas for this

Pottery

That sounds retarded

any dark souls

>Excuse me, my EYES are DOWN HERE! PERVERT!

I mean, it's not even a new idea.
That's essentially what Galacticus is.

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don't you say that about my wife you fuck!

Barret said something so raunchy it had to be censored. Who knows.
I hope he still curses like a sailor in the re-make. But I know it's not going to happen.

you are retarded

fuck you

This is the impression I got but others seem to claim that Sephiroth was stronger than Jenova and took control.

Final Fantasy VII

Humans and other virus-like creatures have done this since the beginning of time 2019 years ago.

>the beginning of time 2019 years ago.

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I think I caught Cloud cursing a few times in the demo they showed at E3. I can swear I heard him say "shit" or "fuck" at one point. I could be wrong tho.

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So... The plot of FFVII is basically The Thing but the government got a handle of the creature first and is doing experiments with it while the things is trying to escape and fulfill its purpose without anyone noticing? Dunno why I ever thought the plot was complex and deep before

Alright Smith, get back in the Matrix

It's the real enemy in the game. Most people miss this. Everyone else (in varying degrees), including Cloud, Sephiroth, and the Shin-Ra corporation, are being controlled/manipulated by that thing.

"Sephiroth" says something very similar to this: "The ability to alter someone's appearance and voice, that is the power of Jenova" -- one of the most important clues in the game.

There's absolutely zero in game evidence for that, and on the other hand many subtle hints towards the contrary.

Another big fucking clue, is that when it comes to fighting "Sephiroth" you are for some super duper mysterious reason fighting Jenova instead: youtu.be/i4cQ6WpBYl0?t=3m22s

3:22 "Sephiroth" says "Because Cloud, you are..."

>fight happens
>against Jenova
>fight over

6:18 the sentence is continued, and now it's revealed it was Jenova who was speaking: "Because Cloud, you are a puppet"

"Where is mother!?"

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Can....can you fuck it?

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It’s what escapes, kills president shinra and what you chase throughout the game. The real Sephiroth is in the northern crater for the entire game, waiting for the black materia.

Brainlets don’t know this tho

First fight: youtube.com/watch?v=n4hOYTtyIxk

"Sephiroth" floats up through the damn floor, yeah that seems legit and totally not like some hallucination.

If he hadn't seen the experiments or encountered Jenova would Sephiroth stayed chill?

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It's typically asserted by the east, and backed up with later media. The west usually views it as Jenova being the one in charge.

The reason being is that Japan tends to give far more weight to persons or individuals overcoming things by just being incredibly strong, while USA/Europe tends to lean towards the logical conclusion that a human going up against a powerful space parasite is probably going to wind up dominated for their hubris. Personally, I tend to go with Jenova being the big bad as the whole creature has a very "The Thing" vibe to it that makes sense it'd assimilate everything it could.

The fatal flaw in this line of reasoning is that if the creature overcame Sephiroth and Cloud was also injected with Jenova cells, then it's very unlikely that Cloud would've been able to succed in resisting the creature whereas Sephiroth did not. It could be said that Cloud had help with Tifa diving into his psyche during their time in Mideel or the lifestream somehow interacted with the Jenova cells to either force them into dormancy or kill them, but it seems like it's reaching to suggest this.

It's not that deep, but it gets a little complicated with false memories and shit. Jenova is also a bit beyond the magnitude of the Thing. I think it's a pretty good plot, by final fantasy standards.

Not everyone injected with FoxDie was killed by it. Maybe Cloud had some genetic difference which helped him resist the thing.

Hey guys, you are all forgetting that this is Final Fantasy we are talking about, the franchise has never been any subtle, if there's a big twist hidden in there, is going to be revealed! Forever it has been stated that Sephiroth is the big bad, if the game never outright states that this isn't the case, then that's because it is!

I like how Cloud gets all freaked out over headless Jenova and Barret just calls it retarded and continues on the mission

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Will I get to hear Aerith swear? This is really important

>what is implicit storytelling
7-10 make use of it in various ways, so does Xenogears.

In fact Japanese stories in general whether it's manga or games do this quite often.

they'll make her a pure church girl and Zack will solo all of Shinra before he dies
>kpop starts playing

When sepheroth snapped he ripped the head off and walked around with it and fucked shit up

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the limit to Aerith's swears are probably "aw crap" and "fudge"

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Not even word of god from the writer himself would change anyone's opinions.

Some people have played on FF7 on release and based their comprehension of the story entirely on that. Some might've gone further and played the Japanese version to try and get a more accurate translation, and some might play future games that expand or retcon certain things. But no matter what releases or who says what, or what was originally intended, the fact remains that a number of people are still going to go off of the only exposure they've had to the game, assuming the base game of FF7's US release to be a complete package in and of itself that requires no additional exposition to enjoy or understand.

I don't think that to be an incorrect line of thought, no one reads War and Peace and decides Tolstoy's later works are needed to clarify or understand it, and beyond that, different people reading the book develop vastly different interpretations of it anyway due to being colored by their own personal experiences and knowledge. In a century, someone will play FF7, having only the game itself to draw conclusions from, and whatever they decide will never be able to be countermanded as anyone who would have the authority to do so would be long gone by that point.

Would you?

almost certainly, had she finished shapeshifting. she would've been indistinguishable from a real person, down to having their memories why no doujin where jenova gets a dicking so good she abandons her planet devouring ways to become your devoted housewife

y'all are putting way more thought into this than the writers ever did.

Imagine the blowjobs he gave himself with her head, haha

>he doesn't understand flowers are an allusion to sex
>he doesn't understand Aeris is a prostitute

I'd Hojo would have said that his mom was Lucrecia and not Jenova, he would have at most just been very concerned about the experiments and not been hell-bent on destroying mankind

Orchestral kpop, though.

Everyone thinks it's an alien but it's an ancient

Write it yourself.

Jenova's tit would prob be a good succ if it wasn't overly embalmed.

I'd still fuck it

I want to say somone at Square confirmed that Sephiroth wrested control of it. So Sephiroth could be the antagonist

I cant remember where I heard it, sorry. I want to say it was around the release of Advent

I want to FUCK that eye.

So was it humanlooking?

Squenix is full of bullshit. They've "confirmed" a bunch of stuff which contradicts the games themselves.

They said that because 95% of people see Seph as the great enemy and he is so /obviously/ the villain of the game (and his character is one of the things that sells the games)... so just to keep it simple for people they respond "uh yeah, it's all Sephiroth's doing". Would just upset people if they complicated things.

If you ask them if Aerith is a whore they'd deny it.

Furthermore MOST of the FF games have an enemy which is hidden in some way, or out of focus from the story but which actually controls or influences the villain(s) you're mostly fighting. It's that way in in 8, 9 10, 5, 4 (I think) as well.

t. professor gast

It likely looks like one of the ancients it imitated

genderless mimic alien

I beleive that FF universe is in the same galaxy or something, so their gods, the gods of creation are the same, so everything human-like is creation of the same god.

Doujin artists are too busy creating the 50,000th Tifa work.

this is what it seems more likely

Apparently a lot of people believe Jenova Synthesis is it's true form.

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Jenova's mind fuckery is literally the only explanation for the angelic "Sephiroth" fight and the super nova move.

I mean, how does the end of that fight and then the set piece with omnislash make sense?

>square-enix ethics department will nerf jenova's tits and remove the part where sephiroth takes her head because "muh incites violence against wahmen"

/pol/ is always right, just like we were right in 2015 when we said they'd nerf Tifa's tits.

The story was so dumb but the battles were pretty cool especially for 2005 or something

The action was the only good thing about that movie.

Barret is based.

Nope. Every true form is a hideous eldritch horror. The shape you see is probably just a form it assumed when it came to the planet.

I'd say synthesis is just that, a synthesis of all its previous forms. It perhaps does not have a unique form to itself.

We have no idea what Jenova "really" looks like.

FF7 = The Thing + Blade Runner + Akira + 90's anime (characters and humor).

When does she swear in the original?

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I think the movie implied that...maybe.

None. People champion Sephiroth as the villain in spite of him being Jenova's pawn from moment one. Jenova, though it's less a character and more a force of nature, makes for a horrifying villain.

reminder that the sephiroth you interact with across most of the game is actually jenova while the real sephiroth was just fucking around in the center of the planet.

The movie implies Cloud spends most of his days browsing tumblr.

There's one chance to find out and I will take it.

Reminder that this is the only time you meet (and fight) the real Sephiroth in the present time.

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This desu. I'd love to find out

You guys know The Thing from the movie called The Thing (by John Carpenter)?

It's basically that with a bit of Lavos Planet Destruction thrown in

It's an intergalactic, parasitic life form that has the ability to shapeshift to blend in and infiltrate whatever planet it is currently trying to consume.

It's also the Sephiroth you follow through the entire game. The only real Sephiroth in the entire story is the dead one missing his legs that you find in the northern crater. The only reason it took the form of Sephiroth (or woke up, for that matter) is because of Cloud's presence in Shinra Tower that night.

Funny thing is, even though you never physically encounter Sephiroth in the game outside of flashbacks and finding his corpse, it's actually his unwavering willpower (from his unwillingness to just fade away after his death) that is exerting control over Jenova and all the experiments you run into throughout the game that causes them to mindlessly search for "the Reunion". By the time Jenovaroth gets to the Northern Crater and meets the real Sephiroth, he's in complete control of it.

Well it has been a while since I've seen it and it is sucked so there is that. Looking into the Jenova things and this bitch supposedly dropped from the sky 2000 years before the game started? 2000 years isn't shit. if was 8000 sure, but 2k? c'mon.

this was a really big idea for a lot of squares more popular games back in the day. trigger, cross, xenogears and final fantasy all had this idea.

It's a parasite. Think Lavos from Chrono Trigger, just plays a more active role in interacting with the natives of the planet it's trying to devour.

>humanity has only existed for a little over 2000 years
Uh oh, we have a religionfag in our midst guys!

M-mommy

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JENOVA is a magical space bacteria. It has no real form.

FFVII's story/lore is actually pretty nice desu.

what religion says people have only been around for 2000 years?

what's the easiest way to become OP in this game

what was his problem

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The plot of FFVII is an asshole with too much time and resources decided to see what would happen if he injected space cancer bacteria they dug up into unborn babies and random people to see what would happen.

He was just a weapon following his programming.

Kinda like the Devil Gundam

Science certainly doesn't say it, so it's either sheer stupidity or religious belief (really, same difference in a lot of cases)

Like any jrpg, farm levels.

Yeah, I think that's the most likely. We've never actually seen it's true form as it takes whatever form is necessary to worm it's way into people's heads or to blend in.

The problem is that so few people get it, which says more about them than the game because it hits you over the head with it.

For a video game story, especially from Japan, it's fairly intricate and branching. Dipshits like dunkey can't comprehend not having bing bing wahoo forcefeed every last detail to you so he goes on youtube and makes videos about how dumb FFVII's story is

Kill yourself faggot.

eldritch parasite. Takes the form of bishounen and naked women to mindcontrol humans.

>that is exerting control over Jenova
>By the time Jenovaroth gets to the Northern Crater and meets the real Sephiroth, he's in complete control of it.
There is no evidence of this in the game at all.

That's what I always thought about that scene. However lately I've begn to suspect that it might not actually be real. It could be something like Cloud facing his inner demons, like putting the past behind him, or some shit like that. Like Cecil fighting himself (the dark knight).

How is the story of these remnants of Sephiroth's will being born into the world with no memories other than the desire to find Jenova any dumber than that of the space parasite itself that takes the form of those it intends to blend in with or mentally fuck with?

So Jenova really is just Japanese The Thing....how long would she last against /our/guy?

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Didn't the game's translation get butchered to the point some rather simple things weren't as evident because of it? It's been over a decade since I played Final Fantasy and I'm ESL, so it's possible back then I wasn't paying that much attention to it, but that's what I've been reading for a while already.

>I'm ESL

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That's fair. It's more Advent Children that retroactively implied it was Sephiroth exerting his will over Jenova, and none of that was written in the original game.

Unless you're arguing that it actually was Sephiroth the whole time and not Jenova.

Aww, did I hurt the poor faithfag's feelings? It sucks when people continue to throw your imaginary friend in your face, doesn't it?

>I don't think that to be an incorrect line of thought, no one reads War and Peace and decides Tolstoy's
What if I edited it so everyone called each other retard? Would you want to read the original?

It's a Japanese product, and also Nomura's involved, so the only fair thing is to take the OG version as the standalone because nips are obsessed as a culture with going back and "making things improved/better". Their "improvements" are retarded almost 100% of the time.

In the original game it is ambiguous as to whether your final enemy was Jenova or Sephiroth. Given that Jenova is an intergalactic planet devouring parasitic lifeform possibly billions of years old I take the preponderance of evidence that the likelihood that Sephiroth overpowered this being as pretty low. To take the path the nips did is going full blown anime-tier "strong individual can overcome anything" BS that they're obsessed with.

That's exactly what it is. It's Cloud essentially removing the last vestiges of Sephiroth's control from his mind.

>he doesn't know

Basically. The dormant shape you see is likely just a form Jenova took on to deceive and assimilate the Ancients. Every time you fight it, it's some otherworldly horror.

>nips are obsessed as a culture with going back and "making things improved/better". Their "improvements" are retarded almost 100% of the time.
>this was probably typed by an American
Makes you think.

She says "Fuck damn get this nigger cat off me" when Red XIII shows up

Aerith was an extreme racist and bigot. It didn't come up much in the game.

It doesn't necessarily have to be that Jenova "overpowered" it.

Jenova's like a very strong infectious disease. You could think of it sort of like those parasites that slugs or ants get, that mutate them and give them self-destructive behavior. (Only super-powered and magical.) What would that be like in a human? Would it literally puppet them? Maybe. Or maybe it would give them a singular, destructive drive, but leave many of their original mental faculties in place - the human's original personality warps around it, but in many ways, it's still THEM.

I see that as kind of what happened with Sephiroth. He's not directly controlled by Jenova-no one is. Jenova infects people, gives them a singular, overwhelming destructive drive, and their personalities warp and they come up with their own particular rationalizations for them.

>To take the path the nips did is going full blown anime-tier "strong individual can overcome anything" BS that they're obsessed with.
Did....did you not play the same game I did? Because FF7 is exactly that kind of anime bullshit through and through. For fuck's sake, the perfect example of this is how Cloud, a worthless tagalong grunt Shinra guard, took the Masamune to the chest and then overcame the pain and suddenly had the strength to lift Sephiroth into the air, BY GRABBING THE BLADE THAT WAS IMPALING HIM, and throwing him into the reactor.

While I agree that it makes sense to just look at the game's story as it is self-contained, your assertion that they "changed" it by "making it go full blown anime-tier 'strong individual can overcome anything'" is pretty off-base. It was already that.

Lavos??

Sephiroth was already badly worn and wounded by the time Cloud came to him. Cloud's actions then resulted in being so wounded and fucked that he spent several years in a Mako tube and had his mind wiped. That's a far cry from anime shonen scenes where the protag's friends all shout how much friendship they have and then miraculously he defeats the villain and goes on with his life.

Advent Children lmao

Also, there's the fact that Sephiroth isn't strictly human. He's part-Jenova (as well as Mako-enhanced) since Hojo experimented on him in the womb. Sephiroth could (in the context of the game itself) easily have become something much like Jenova itself. Maybe the Combination of Jenova and human willpower did make him every bit as powerful as he'd need to be to overpower it's will and puppeteer it as his own body.

As you said though, it's ambiguous at best and never outright stated.

Always wanted to fuck jenova
Considering her and PE, Nomura can design some sexy abominations

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Sephiroth did not control Jenova as much as he kind of domesticated it. After all is said and done, Jenova is a creature of instinct, not some unknowable eldritch intellect. It saw that Sephiroth's quest for power could only hasten its own plans of draining the planet dry, so it allowed him to utilize itself in its realization. Much like a dog will protect its master that feeds it, Jenova was there for Sephiroth, who was going to deliver the planet to it on a platter.

But you're referring to scenes that happen after the moment I used as an example. They're irrelevant to said example. Worn out or not, Sephiroth was the absolute best of the best (nevermind being part Jenova) and Zack was lucky to survive his encounter with him. Cloud was a literal nobody. He had no real skill beyond the ability to point a gun and shoot it as far as we are shown.

it honestly doesn't make sense that a guy like him would go mad over it, not unless you take the japaneese clone thing into account where they believe that clones don't have souls which makes a little more sense. In Before Crisis It's Gakt that convinces Seph to go nuts after his best bro Angeal dies. Zack the chad tries to talk him down and tell that faggot singer to fuck off but Seph loses it.

Zack beat Seph's ass pretty badly, and Seph wasn't exactly playing witha full deck at that point. Combine that with Cloud's tard strength and adrenaline and it's feasible. In most iterations Cloud simply managing to strike back at Seph causes him to completely snap and off himself, Cloud simply tries his best and it shakes him.

>Worn out or not, Sephiroth was the absolute best of the best (nevermind being part Jenova) and Zack was lucky to survive his encounter with him.
Zack is not that weak, he's also soldier first class, the man took on Shinra's entire army, solo, fought and beat two of shinra's best in Genesis and Angeal, and tango'd with Sephiroth. Cloud doesn't even approach Zack's strength till endgame.

>the man took on Shinra's entire army

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That's probably how her following began.
She noticed everything on the planet needed to nut something fierce and became something hot. Then people started fucking her.
Thus the need to find Mother began.

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I thought we weren't talking about content shown outside of FF7 itself? Because Zack fighting off Shinra's army to protect Cloud didn't happen until Crisis Core expanded his story.

Wouldn't Jenova look like Lavos from Chrono Trigger? Both have the same concept and both are made by square.

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That's the thing, it's still ambiguous.

Like we see, throughout the game, that Jenova's method of control isn't directly assuming people's minds. This is most obvious in the sequence where Cloud walks up to Aeris, and draws his sword and nearly kills her himself. He had his own, very good reasons for going to Aeris at first, and then Jenova just gave him this insane, impulsive urge to murder her. That - this is the important part - he managed to resist.

The way I see it is Jenova doesn't have much of an intellect or its own ability to even PLAN, so much - and when it does give direct orders, people can kind of 'spot them' and resist. What it does is infect people until it infects someone whose goals align with its own, or who it can very subtly MANIPULATE into thinking their goals align with its own. In the end, has Sephiroth "domesticated" Jenova, if he's giving Jenova everything it wants? Maybe that's just sort of how Jenova works.

If Jenova went about straight-up destroying everything then yes.
It's clear that it's more parasitic in nature and slowly taking over the planet for her own devices.

Also, I'm well aware that Cloud's capabilities didn't approach their level until near the end of the game. That's why I pointed out that fact.

And by the way, as good as Zack may have been, Sephiroth was literally in an entirely different league. Genesis and Angeal were experimented upon after becoming adults when they joined Shinra. Sephiroth was experimented on in the womb, growing and developing as a human/Jenova hybrid.

>soldier first class, the man took on Shinra's entire army, solo
how fucking braindead stupid ff7 fans are is amazing. You guys must have the most damaged tiniest brains... my god is that some dumb, worthless storytelling for the biggest idiots on this planet... can you comprehend how stupid that shit is? How it makes everything comical and ridiculous, unbelievable and childish. How fucking absurd and meaningless that all is. Compare FF7 to witcher3. It's like comparing a turd to a golden master watch.

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youtu.be/YvRk-Ccl6JY?t=122
Is it? Even then soldier first class was something of the calibur of Sephiroth, yeah Sephiroth was the best, but Zack wasn't a slouch either. It's dumb to think they aren't going to stick in that shit for the remake since it's been done in before crisis, crisis core, and last order.

No was talking about that fucking garbage until you came in here. Fuck off retard.

they were on par till Sephiroth lost it and jumped in the planet soup, or about as much. They establish that multip[le times in crisis core that the three amigos were the heaviest hitters and Zack took em all on.

I think it's said somewhere that Jenova tried to fuse with an ancient and got fucked up, so is that perhaps an ancient?

>dumb nigger takes a page to say nothing
what a loser

CALAMITY FROM THE SKIES

eat lead dipshit, enjoy your canon, it's there whether you want it to be or not.

Yes, that's from a different game. Unlike the other asshats going apeshit over the expanded content, I'm okay with them. But the discussion is about FF7 in itself before any of that content was written. We're talking about the story as it was presented then. In FF7 itself, the only thing you see of Zack meeting the Shinra army is one of them putting bullets in his head.

>In the end, has Sephiroth "domesticated" Jenova, if he's giving Jenova everything it wants?

This worked the other way as well. Sephiroth was greatly strengthened by Jenova's cells and only came so close to the realization of his plan by virtue of that strength. It's a very symbiotic relationship the two have, and it's tough to pinpoint which one was the master and which one the dog, but it's rather safe to assume that Sephiroth was the one more readily capable of manipulation, seeing how he is probably the more intelligent (in the sense of not being entirely driven by instinct) of the two.

The fact that Sephiroth literally throws her at you as a meatshield before you fight him proves he completely dominated it at some point.

Sephiroth did not jump into the ractor, Cloud threw him in. You're remembering a scene from Last Order in which Tseng is imagining the events reported on in a way that makes sense to him. Tseng would have no reason to ever believe Cloud would have been capable of what he did, so he, and the report, assumed Sephiroth jumped to his death.

How widespread is Jenova? It's clear she has cultists throughout the world and parts of herself just hanging out or hidden away in parts of the planet.
Is there any getting rid of her?

playing this for the first time

does vincent's beast mode get damage reduced if he's in the back?

>Jenova
Is this thing supposed to be space equivalent of Jehovah or Yahweh.

I mean, it's clear throughout the game that Jenova has many eldritch abomination incarnations lurking throughout the world, and is often ready and willing to use them. The one you fight before Sephiroth is not "The" Jenova, or anything. Jenova can choose to defend Sephiroth because he's fulfilling her plans, or is a very high-value infection, or whatever, not necessarily because it was "dominated".

Just like one would sic a dog at an intruder.

FF7 combat have a front and back row?

Dude, you never actually fight Sephiroth in the game. Even the final boss is still that thing you saw in Shinra Tower taking his form. Sephiroth, at least his body, is dead. The entire game revolves around chasing Jenova across the planet and trying to stop it from destroying everything. It merely took Sephiroth's form to fuck with Cloud and manipulate him. The "Meat Shields" are Jenova, but so is the thing leaving them behind to block your path throughout the game.

This, only Sephiroth was totally in control.

He didn't. Sephiroth isn't in control of Jenova. Jenova isn't in control of Sephiroth. They are one being. Sephiroth was made with Jenova cells and because of how Jenova functions that meant all the existing Jenova cells left behind by the previous host became his cells.

You could make a case that the cells in his body influenced him into wanting to eat planets but that's really just his biology. It's like saying your cells are controlling you and making you eat hamburgers. Everytime you meet Jenova he takes on the appearance of Sephiroth not anybody else. During the second fight Sephiroth (which is also Jenova) starts a sentence and Jenova (the one you're fighting) finishes it.

Yeah, I only just noticed this the other day when I started it up again, myself. I always assumed Aerith did shit damage because she was weak. Pop her in the front row and suddenly she hits almost on par with everyone else....though she does take fewer hits to go down.

>no evidence
Hojo claims that "it was all Sephiroth's doing," and that his will was what called the clones.
In contrast to Hojo's original theory about the Jenova reunion which suggested that the clones should have moved to Jenova's body, the body itself got up and moved to Sephiroth.
Cloud confirms Hojo's statements and says that Sephiroth was summoning him
The simple fact that it's Sephiroth you fight at the end, and Jenova throws itself at you to protect him
The fact that it's explicitly Sephiroth's willpower blocking Holy
Jenova itself literally calls Sephiroth its master, right before the Jenova-DEATH fight
None of this is considering that the writers explicitly confirmed that Sephiroth is the one in control, and that Jenova is a purely instinct-driven monster with no real plans of its own
>no evidence
You people should seriously go back and actually play the game because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about

>Dude, you never actually fight Sephiroth in the game
True, because the Sephiroth you fight at the end is his remnants in Cloud's mind.
You do fight Sephiroth taking control of Jenova's cells tho, Jenova just puts the matter and Sephiroth the will and brain.

>Hojo
Do you really trust anything he says?

Those aren't cultists. Those are people that Hojo experimented on in the same way he did with Zack and Cloud, just in various forms of failure. "The Reunion" is just all these people with Jenova cells in them trying to reunite with the main body of Jenova at the core of the planet, since that's where it was going to begin with.

When Cloud and Jenova and the writers all back him up, yeah

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat the fuuuuuuuuck?

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that looks to be an iphone filename
sooo uuuuh
kill urself k

>None of this is considering that the writers explicitly confirmed
So you're not paying attention to the conversation at all. Got it. Thanks for your shitty opinions buddy. Oh and Tifa's asian now, writers confirmed it 10 years after the fact

>trying to reunite with the main body of Jenova at the core of the planet
At Sephiroth's will.
Don't forget.

It's basically a perfect culmination of 80s-90s pop culture plus the writing style of the era in an attempt to redefine Final Fantasy for a new era and system. Every time they try to "update it" or add more depth it becomes jarring or a clusterfuck for that reason because the charm was it was what it was and once you strip that away it just becomes a lot of people with stylish hair acting melodramatic in a Mel Brooks movie.

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Why does one have to be "manipulating" the other? I always figured Sephiroths decent into madness was his will merging with Jenova. That or Jenova was just a literal corpse, and Sephiroth was inheriting it's space aids.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying this whole time. The physical being you fight at the end is Jenova, but Sephiroth is the mind behind it.

It's complicated precicely because Jenova is deceitful and corrupts the lifestream and that also makes it interesting. All plots like this are easy if you have absolute knowledge about it.
But the first time, Jenova totally confuses most players together with the main cast.
Also an underrated point is that Ilfana says that Jenova spread a virus that turned Cetra into monsters and that it did so by aproaching other using the faces of dead loved ones.

It has been confirmed by multiple official sources that Sephiroth was directly in charge and that Jenova has no real mind of its own and only exists to feed on planets. Sephiroth took advantage of this primal need and roped the alien creature into his service by enticing it with nummy lifestream.

yes? there's a tutorial on it and aerith starts in the back. The long range materia even states a back row

Same as it ever was across every form of media. Every time some hot new thing hits the scene, groups of uninspired businessmen bum-rush it to capitalize while either missing the point of what made it appeal to people, or not giving a fuck entirely.

>there's a tutorial on it
there is? I play this game every once in a while and I've never noticed

its final fantasy so obviously it isnt "deep" but it is pretty solid as far as original vidya plots go, particularly for 1997. finding those recordings in the ice town house was pretty cool and gives a bunch of background that a player would otherwise miss completely.

Jenova can control anything that has it's cell injected into it. That means all monsters and SOLDIER. This is why Jenova can control Cloud, by appearing like Sephirot (dead loved ones) and why it could control Sephirot easily, as he has more Jenova cells than any SOLDIER and it did so appearing like a dead loved one (his mother)

100% bluepilled

Did you even play the game?

He clearly inherited insanity from Lucrecia, Hojo and to a lesser extend Jenova. He doesn't really come off as totally normal beforehand. He amidst other things yearns for a place (or family) to belong to, which is why he asks what a hometown is like. It's what he's personally curious about outside the mission professionalism. He also laughs hard when no one else does.

That's Crisis Core. Don't unintentionally smear Before Crisis.

*tip*

I think its much more of a symbiotic relationship, personally. Sephiroth is a very iconic villain, though, and some people don't like the idea that he wasn't fully in control - that the domineering evil dude that made such an impact on them when they were younger may not have been such a monolith of evil will that he appeared to be. And Sephiroth is the enduring iconic villain, because in the story he's a much more PERSONAL villain - for the sake of the argument, if Jenova was FULLY in control, it feels much less personal because then it's just you struggling against this ancient space parasite. Having Sephiroth in full control makes revenge against him seem sweeter. But in the end, I personally think it was more of a symbiosis.

Yeah, just ignore the mountain of in-game evidence to suit your own bullshit headcanon.

Here's a fun game: find one piece of evidence, a single line of dialogue, a cutscene, literally anything from the original game that suggests that Jenova was the one in control.

Lucrecia wasn't dead.

>Took advantage

Sephiroth was a mutual beneficiary. Jenovas spread of disease was halted be being dead and locked in a jar, and then later just goo in a box. Sephiroth is infused with Jenovas genes n shit, so his actions are based on the instincts given to him from her. He's just a sentient prince of a catatonic queen.

Yeah, no. Sephiroth referred to Jenova as his mother because it's genetic code was much more defining to him than his human mother's. I'm a bit fuzzy on whether or not Sephiroth even knew that Lucrecia is his human mother. Surely he eventually understood that Jenova wasn't a person that gave birth to him, though.

That is the only time you fight Sephiroth, but wasn't he controlling the Jenova puppets since he gained all the knowledge of the planet while floating through the lifestream thanks to the implanted jenova cells.

Hey Squeenix boot licker, you're just copypasting what "WingedMasamune" wrote here: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197341-final-fantasy-vii/62616914

Meanwhile in that old thread he got totally rekt. You're hoping people don't go there and read through it.

Is anyone else disappointed with the soundtrack remixes they've shown off so far? That's probably the thing I'm worried about the most, FFVII has some of the most iconic video game music ever and what we've heard so far really doesn't sound very good, like the battle theme has some of the same melodies but overall it just sounds like really generic jap action music

>welcome to the wonderful world of JRPG

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Read the ultimania retard.

10000000000% bluepilled and non-canon

The action timeline of Jenova doesn't make sense, if Sephiroth isn't in control. Jenova stays docile for years for no reason, if it's in control instead.

You're the kind of NPC who believes anything Square Enix says regardless if it directly contradicts the games.

I want to play Before Crisis, but being a japanese movil game from 20 years ago, it seems unlikely that it's translated, emulatable or good.
Have any of you guys played it?

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FF may be entry level jRPG tier but this for me is the peak of vidya storywriting. It still strongly resonates with me, even after all these years.
>main theme plays when he takes off his helmet
Blew my mind as a kid.

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Except that isn't an actual physical encounter that even occurs. That is a visual representation of Cloud cutting himself off from Sephiroth's influence. It takes place in his mind and therefore isn't actually Sephiroth.

The fuck are you people smoking.

He wanted to be born again, but the spare parts got touchy about it.

One of the best scenes in the game.

SE shits all over the Square games and retcons them however they (or Nomura) feel like at any given moment.

Jenova is an extension of Sephiroth's body. The only distinction is that the one you fight throughout the game was made from the remains of the original Jenova's body and the last one is made from Sephiroth's original body (which is made up of Jenova cells anyway)

My theory is that it mutated an ancient that they trusted highly as we know Jenova cells mutate creatures. That particularly explains why it has a female appearance.

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>digging up 7 year old gamefags threads
Do you have actual autism?

They are the people that created the game, I trust them more than a misinformed retard who follows a bad translation from a game he hasn't played in years.

"docile for years" may not mean all that much to a magical, cosmic infectious disease that has existed for thousands.

If it ain't in the game it ain't legit, bro.

I'm fully convinced that everyone in the West has only watched it translated on Youtube. Which is fine, since the gameplay seems very repetitive. However this might also be because.Shotgun is on a NG+ as far as I've understood.

It's good though and I recommend it.

It was in the game, even I caught it years ago.

I am. They are much too busy, like they tried to one-up themselves and see how many additional layers they can stack on top of the tracks.

There are fan-made remasters that sound much better than what they have put out to date, unfortunately.

What I don't get though, is what is this machine in front of Jenova that is attached to it?

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There is at least one thing we can reasonably assume about its true form from all its others.

It has Tits.

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I know a lot of what makes VII's soundtrack stand out is the kind of wonky midi synths it used but it really shouldn't be that hard to translate the music into something more modern while still keeping the same general feel it had in the original, what they've shown so far just sounds way too busy like you said and it muddies up what made it great to begin with

Except they aren't. There are some original employees left, but most of the people who worked in the games in the 90s have no influence anymore, some of them are dead and most don't even work for Square Enix in any capacity. Sure, some of them still do. But take away parts of a recipe for a cake and it won't be the same cake anymore, some flavors will be missing.

Even when key people still remain, there's no guarantee they can be trusted to not fuck shit up. Hell just look at Star Wars and George Lucas, HE shits all over the original movies. Just for example he made Greedo shoot first, because Lucas felt like it, because he didn't want Han to look like a bad guy. And boom, suddenly that's now "canon" because Lucas said so. Even though in the actual movie Greedo didn't even fire a single shot, Han blasted him before he had a chance.

>"There ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on!"
>Highwind Takes to the Skies

As much as I love the story, Nobuo Uematsu is the #1 reason anyone remembers this game. His death will be a greater loss than any developer

It certainly didn't wait a second with the Cetra after its long travel through the cosmos. Furthermore waiting 30 years after thawing from 2000 years of ice seems arbitrary.

Big alien tiddies mane.

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Very good.
But I wonder if they'll keep that scene in it. Red XIII does say during that that he "had to keep up the act". So effectively he was acting like he was in heat during that time.

It's just an effigy.
Like an embellisment.
The tank seems to be just life support.

Why is Sephiroth half naked in Cloud's mind?

Dudes, there is even a materia to interact with this called Long Range. Weapons can have long range too, mostly barret and vincent due to guns. They can strike flying enemies and attack from the back row with no reduced damage.
Back row is 50% damage recieved and done, it's a pretty big deal.

This scene is why FF7 is considered a good story. It's not just you getting that explanation about Cloud, it's actually the pay off of close to two discs of Tifa acting odd too. You understand then why she was so weird around Cloud.

That happens in the middle of the Planet, not in his mind. According to something or other.

Japanese the thing

>Chill planet
>Doo doo doo toot toot classic Final Fantasy world with mages and knights and shit
>A meteor with cancer falls down
>The cancer is aggressive, starts feeding on pretty much everything
>The cancer has the convenient ability to copy people
>It transforms into what is known as a very important figure in that world and starts fucking shit up.
>World is in chaos
>The ancient OG niggas have enough and start Chemotherapy on that cancer shit
>Cancer tries to crash another meteor on niggas
>Fail
>Cancet is defeated
>Only not really
>Many many many years later, they find some cancer remnants
>"wtf this thing can alter genetics and shit. furthermore, it's alterable with Mako energy!"
>What if...WE START FUCKING WITH THE CANCER TO CREATE THE MASTER RACE?"

And this is how FF7 happened.

Look, Nomura, Sakaguchi and Kitase were the ones behind the plot.
The game states that Sephiroth was in control, then Sephiroth was in control. Period.

How is the remake going to fuck all of this up?

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youtube.com/watch?v=yjxcEtV7zdE

This is quite literally just the original midi track given more modern samples to work with and it sounds good. They already have perfection in their hands with the original compositions, they should just reproduce them through modern means.

barret's the best FF7 character

>Cloud and his allies destroy him, but his mind endures. Pulling Cloud into a metaphysical final battle, Sephiroth attempts to take control of him, but Cloud's mental defenses have grown, and he defeats Sephiroth who dissolves into the Lifestream, seemingly destroyed. With Sephiroth gone, Holy is released from the Planet's core and Aeris helps the Lifestream emerge and keep the Meteor at bay for Holy to destroy it.
The last battle happens in Cloud's mind.

What? Isn't it after the battle that Tifa snaps Cloud out of it. He didn't physically move anywhere

Nah, they had perfection with the FF8 OST. I can admit that FF7 was the overall better game, but FF8 pisses all over every other RPG in existence with it's soundtrack.

Pretty sure it's an actual manifestation of Sephiroth, not another delusion.
As to why Seph decided to appear half naked?
I guess he's just proud of it.

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It's a shame belt boy has no idea what a black man looks like and gave him the wrong kind of hair completely, plus he's barely brown.

More than you
He didn't even knew Lucrecia existed. He only knew he had a mother called Jenova and that she was dead because that's what they told him.
Jenova can still do her thing, mindfuck through people you know that have been lone gone.
He saw the monster in the reactor, his mother "name" there and he thought "I must be a monster too, that's why I'm different".
Afterwards, he investigated in the shinra mansion, and read about the Cetra. Through long days of mindfuckery from Jenova by his huge amount of Jenova Cells, he eventually snapped, thinking that he was the last of the Cetra, that his mother Jenova was a Cetra, and that the regular humans fucked everything up and stole the planet from them.
He went to free the monster, got backstabbed and then thrown into the planet, WITH JENOVA'S HEAD.
Sephirot died at that point and got totally merged with Jenova. Since he was now a foreign organism, he couln't go back to the planet or merge with the lifestream.

This is the absolute truth faggots.

They wanted to create super soldiers.

When it arrived at the Cetra, we can assume that it was at full strength from devouring whatever the last planet it ate was.

By the events of the game, it's been controlled and contained for a long time. Jenova isn't all-powerful, it needs hosts to do the work for it. Perhaps it could have just been waiting to have a host strong enough to accomplish what it needed to do.

>I believe Sephiroth can float through solid objects like floors

While I disagree, I meant perfection in terms of the original compositions already being better than what they could feasibly create for the remake, so they should just reproduce those compositions with the techniques available today.

As long as he acts like a brother it's cool.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Mine is from The Maiden who Travels the Planet, which is an earlier source. Just like that one interview where Kitase said everyone died to Holy. Nowadays it is retconned to be within Cloud's mind. And also as an unrelated side note MwTtP might not be canon either.

His casting is god tier so I do have high hopes for him.

They're trying to make it too orchestral probably because of the orchestral concerts they've been doing with various FF music, and that might be nice for an actual concert but in a game it just sounds flat and lifeless

Ilfana says that it totally trick them, and that it infected all the ancients from the northen crater area, then moving to other tribes and doing the same.
Jenova was defeated by an unnamed small group of Cetra when there already were few of them.

>More than you
Then you have the reading comprehension of a fish.
When he fell into the lifestream he learned about the secrets of the planet, and whioe his body was in a coma-like state, his mind was in control of Jenova's cells.

If he's an illusion he can do whatever he feels like doing.

Subverted partially in Xenogears since Deus is an interplanetary genocide weapon created by humans to kill their enemies and replace them with humans.

Then what about the five years between Sephiroth being tossed to the Lifestream and Jenova scratching her way out of the Shinra HQ. What had changed? Sephiroth should be that strong enough host, right?

>Jenova Synthesis
Is this from the "correct" re-translation? I remember it as Jenova Absolute.

>FF8 pisses all over every other RPG in existence with it's soundtrack.

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Yeah, Cloud's spirit travels down there and then returns. (Well, not nowadays.)

That was the title of its battle theme.

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And why? Because it's pointless? Literally all life is. If anything Jenova's life cycle is less pointless than ours because she and everything she ever did won't be erased from existence just because one planet dies

The thing I want to know is how the FUCK are they planning on recreating the Safer Sephiroth fight in the style of the remake? How can they properly emulate Meteor without wresting control from the player for a full minute?

I'm pretty sure it's Synthesis in all versions.

RENT FREE BABYYYYY

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I want in game proof of Sephirot taking over Jenova. There isn't, it was already stablished in the thread.
Everything could be a Jenova ruse as it's totally included in the videos of Ilfana and Gast, which are the most reliable sources of information about Jenova there is. And she explains how Jenova operates clearly, while Seph being in control is just speculation at best.
Hojo also doesn't have the ability to really know that seph is in control. He was fucking hero goddamit, he was good to others.
The game is full of unreliable narrators, except for Ilfana, as she implies that before the time of the video, she could talk with the planet directly. She knows about weapons, I trust her recount about Jenova more than what the other characters say.

You mean supernova?

Hojo had far more than just super soldiers in mind.

Maybe it's because of the lighting of the Reactor footage but i don't see the issue of him not being black enough.
He has my favorite redesign so far just cause a lot of it channels Blade like the original was Mr.T

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Still not as dumb as ffxiii

I'd say it's more that Sephiroth and Jenova became a single being than either one controlling things. It's a little too convenient to say Sephiroth was in total control and just happened to decide to do the exact same thing Jenova was doing after her cells saved him from dying in the lifestream.

>He was fucking hero goddamit, he was good to others.
Sephiroth left dead (but possibly still alive in need of help) Shinra grunts behind, because they didn't have time to go look for them and the mission took precedence.

>fighting SS in heavenly sky arena among the clouds
>skybox suddenly turns black and stars and galaxies appear
>physics equations start appearing in the air above and around you
>bright light in the distance that steadily gets brighter as high speed roaring/screaming sound effects gets louder and louder
Would be that easy

Oh yes, that's what the actual attack was called even though the animation shows a meteor-like object hurtling through and destroying the planets of the solar system.

Supernova will just be a glorified cutscene.

Oh, he looks fine in that screenshot, the ones I've seen must have had a specific weird lighting to them.

Do people think black skin just doesn't reflect light?

So what it already was?

When I was little, I was too dumb to understand what the significance of Jenova "escaping" from the Shinra building was. I also couldn't make heads or tails of those times when the screen was black and it was like Cloud was talking to himself. Pretty cool plot when I got older and understood the game and gameplay mechanics more, FF7 was babby's first JRPG for me.

They are already wrestling control from the player for half a minute repeatedly with Guard Scorpion. The answer is that they are going to just do it.

Exactly.

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It gave head to Sephiroth.

Jenova makes FF7 Lovecraftian prove me wrong.

>implying he's not half naked in your mind

Check out the normie.

Cloud knows you go after Sephiroth, always Sephiroth.
Why, at the end of the game, wouldn't he adress Jenova as the last boss? Thats right, because the last boss is Sephiroth not Jenova.
>He was a hero
Pff, he was an asshole.
Go watch reminiscence, you seem to have forgotten the plot.

All the characters have dull lighting effects of them it has nothing to do with black skin idiot

Uh huh.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here bud

>Oh yes, that's what the actual attack was called even though the animation shows a meteor-like object hurtling through and destroying the planets
It hits the sun last, causing it to go supernova.

>frog has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend otherkin
>gopher has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend furries
>shekel goblin has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend jews
>pirate ship has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend people from the Caribbean
>teapot has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend beauty and the beast fans
>biker has to be nerfed so the disabled aren't offended
>ghost has to be nerfed so it doesn't offend fat goth women

...and on and on and on. For fuck's sake, there's a "fit" blonde haired, blue eyed woman in a bikini, that'll send the 300 pound pink haired cunts into orbit if it stays in the game.

>mfw the japanese have fallen, there is no hope left

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>still stubbornly ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that the "Sephiroth" you chase throughout the game is actually Jenova taking his form to manipulate everyone.

It's interesting to note, that among the Final Fantasy players/fans, those people who can't think for themselves and constantly use appeal-to-authority and rely solely on "official" (in other words: Square Enix) sources to get their "opinions" and knowledge, they all, together, as one big NPC family, in unison, miss several things (in the stories) across several of FF the games, and they all miss the /exact same/ things.

And they all share the exact same mentality and way of thinking. Anything in an FF game which isn't 100% /explicitly/ spoonfed directly into the players mouth in an over-the-top obvious manner, they don't notice, and when it's pointed out to them, they reject it and call it a crazy theory etc.

That's why they all miss the same things, and why remain boxed into this strange herd mentality -- because the games often use implicit storytelling.

No matter how heavily an FF game implies something, no matter how many elements of the story /implicitly/ tells the player something -- when pointed out to them, they consider it noncanon. It's both funny and sad. It's almost like they're afflicted with some sort of collective mind-virus which impairs their ability to think.

Pic very related. The same people who think Sephiroth controlled everything, and that you were fighting Sephiroth the whole time, they will absolutely attack pic related and anyone who points it out. Doesn't matter how many implicit story elements within the game you point out to them, they'll deny all of it. The game itself is irrelevant to them, only what authority figures say, and staying in agreement with their "herd" matters, as it gives them some sort of illusion of being right probably some feeling of superiority. Now that is truly sad.

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>It's a little too convenient to say Sephiroth was in total control and just happened to decide to do the exact same thing Jenova was doing after her cells saved him from dying in the lifestream.
He was a megalomaniac bastard that became crazy

"AND probably some feeling of superiority."

Maybe it will be an instant kill.

Cloud came near it, and it sensed it's cells in him. It's not expressly stated, but it's one hell of a coincidence otherwise.

I mean, presumably Sephiroth's recovery from the lifestream was not an instantaneous process

Nobody cares what you think autist

Jenova was thought to be an ancient at first even after they started genetic experiments.

Cloud always thinks it's Seph because he is being tricked by Jenova, like he did 2000 years ago. Remember that the thing is SO GOOD at impersonating people you know that it almost killed the entire Cetra race.

Imagine being this fucking stupid. The game makes perfectly clear that Cloud's final encounter with Sephiroth is in his own mind. That you can ignore that and come up with this tripe is almost impressive.

Sephirot was in control and Ultimecia being Rinoa is top theory.

I just don't want VIII to have good writing.

In VII the minor issues and game conventions are stacked against Jenova.

>the actual games are irrelevant, they are not canon
You're absolutely hopeless.

Yeah, but through these past 22 years, I always somehow overlooked that and just saw it as making melee attacks capable of hitting faraway enemies.

Goddammit, you dense.
The game final boss is Sephiroth, there's no point to him being the final boss if Jenova is the mastermind and villian.
In final fantasy you always fight the second in command first and the main villian last.
It's not rocket science.

Reported to be very infectious, you are likely to get diseased.

But yes.

Nobody cares what you think autist

See:

Nobody cares what you think autist

That's the shirtless fight, not Safer Sephiroth's, the ACTUAL final boss fight.

Yes and I don't even like ff7.

*blocks your path*

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user, do you eat?
Because by your logic, you are retarded, then.

I didn't come up with it for the sake of this argument youtube.com/watch?v=KGAuIbZ3iYA#t=4m38s

However I actually did come up with it on my own beforehand, because of the tunnel FMV before the Sephiroth fight and Cloud saying "...Lifestream?" as Lifestream and Jenova Cells surged around him after the battle and then Aerith making an appearance and "An answer from the Planet."

Nowadays I know it's officially changed to be in his mind, but the game doesn't support that.

The Warring Triad. Checkmate, best FF villain.

?
Kefka was the main villian and the last boss.

The problem is still there. Your interpretation is mostly backed by things outside of the plot itself, like FF conventions.
If you want to argue that eventually, the fusion between him and Jenova implies that Seph personality becomes dominant, that's something that can be theorized. Maybe that's what happened because of how strong Seph was, but it's still doing the exact same thing that Jenova would have done alone.
Take Seph out of the way. What would Jenova have done if fred by other means? the same. Wound the fucking planet to have a feast and finish what you started 2000 years ago.
Seph doesn't change the behavior of Jenova at all so he is, in the best of cases, a dominant persona of Jenova.
God, you are the one who is dense man. Don't you see the true jap narrative arc in place? japs love eternal return, the new generation closes what started with the old one and that's what Aerith does: She closes the very old battle between the Cetra and Jenova.

Where is the pus

CC aside, Zack faced Sephiroth 1v1 and survived. Cloud got a lucky shot on him. Without surprise, he was fucking impaled instantly by a guy that just took a fucking iron board to the back of his spine.

No, it's battle theme's title is J-E-N-O-V-A

Big galaxy brain retard thinks he understands FF better than anyone else

I hope they carry storylines longer in the remake,
Serious shit goes down but once it's resolved - done - never brought up again. That Dyne stuff is scarring.

youtube.com/watch?v=2yX4h8Agi7U
youtube.com/watch?v=qVZBHTN_ZuU
if they don't get those two right in the FFVII remake episode 7 coming in 2032 I'm gonna scream.

The world is full of garbage. Broken machines everywhere.
Most houses have guns inside.
The world is literaly dying.

Why are people still so confused over what happened and either say it was Jenova controlling Sephiroth or vice versa? Was it really that ambiguous or are people trying to apply layers of depth to the story that weren't there?

Anons...can you all hear the cry of the planet? youtube.com/watch?v=1giYRAYFTHQ

Literally have never noticed the eye on her titty before. Am I retarded?

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Cloud was blank-faced standing on that chunk of rock as the crater was collapsing, seeing the entire event in his mind. That it was the remnant of Sephiroth's will inside him was never in question. The problem here is that you are arguing he physically went somewhere and physically fought Sephiroth. You are wrong. As evidenced by Tifa reaching for him and screaming at him to get him to respond. Cloud destroying the remnant of Sephiroth's will in his mind is just as physical of an event as any of his hallucinations earlier in the game.

Just because his hallucinations were something he was actually experiencing within his own mind don't make them any less hallucinations.

>FF conventions
FF is very formulaic.
There's nothing to argue, Jenova and Sephiroth have a symbiotic relationship: Jenova has the shapechanging body and Sephiroth has the will.
Jenova can't do anything alone, it is in a freeze state since 2000 years ago, only whe Sephiroth awakened it "awakened".
If Jenova, somehow, did awaken by itself it would have started to mimic the people in Midgard not lead Cloud, someone who had nothing relevant to do with it, into a goose chase into the northern crater.

The eternal return is a Seph's theme, not Jenova's.
Everything has to do with Sephiroth, not Jenova.
Jenova is accesory.
20 years later and there are still retards who don't know how to read.

I think this was the first thing that played at the start of disc 2 after Aeris's death. Kino moment.

It's ambigious enough because the story is told by liers, uninformed, mistaken, manipulative, confused and mentally sick characters.

It actually was fairly ambiguous, yeah. Sephiroth is the iconic villain that gets remembered, but during the gameplay, you were never actually 100 percent sure what was going on - was Sephiroth under some form of mind control by Jenova? Was it not as direct as mind control, but a subtle manipulation that drove him insane? Was Sephiroth "in control" of Jenova, and just coincidentally happened to reach the exact same goals that Jenova itself had? Was Sephiroth basically Jenova itself?

I blame it on the poor translation though.

It's been a very long time since I've played the game, but I always thought the plot left the true nature of the antagonist purposefully vague.

The scene in pic related is where it gets really muddled. The big reveal is that you weren't following the actual Sephiroth the entire time, just Jenova. But why is he here? You'd think that falling into raw mako would just cause him to be reabsorbed into the lifestream.

My personal theory is that the Sephiroth you see in the crystal is all the parts of him that the planet rejected. But while he was floating in the lifestream, he was basically exposed to the collective consciousness of everything that's ever lived on the planet, which is probably how he/it knows about the existence and location of the Black Materia.

One would think that this thing is no longer Sephiroth at all, but just Jenova. But why does it maintain his physical form and personality? I've always thought it's a Prototype-esque situation -- the entity in the pic isn't the human form of Sephiroth, but a collection of Jenova cells that hold his consciousness and personality.

This brings up another question: what the fuck happened to Cloud after he fell into the lifestream in this scene? When Tifa finds him he's completely fucked up. Did the same thing happen to him? Did the Planet reabsorb all the human aspects of him, and spit out the shit corrupted by Jenova?

Attached: FF7_CloudGiveBlackMateriaToSephiroth_640x899_90op[1].jpg (640x899, 195K)

Sephiroth and Jenova kinda bacame one, but it was Sephiroth's will the one that remained.

Jenova wanted to drain the planet dry because that is how it feeds. It would then have used the lifeless rock to get to the next nearest planet. Sephiroth sought to absorb the lifestream as well, but he was motivated by the promise of godhood, not sustenance. The destruction of the planet was to be a consequence of Sephiroth's plan, not its main goal.

Sephiroth only came to be explicitly supportive of Jenova's feeding cycle by the time AC rolled into town.

So you're saying when Sephiroth was thrown in to the lifestream, he physically died but his will remained inside the stream itself and eventually overpowered the Jenova bullshit that was also now present in the lifestream?

If that's the case then why does Cloud get fucking mongolated by the lifestream?

>materia is always show as to be baseball-sized, even in the new remake
>yet its somehow able to fit inside of their accessories and weapons
Does it shrink and expand like Pokeballs?

when I first saw the trailer as a kid of this scene i thought it was some robot that was carrying him

"That's a Cetra no doubt. Looks just like Ifalna, my wife and mother of my child."

-Gast Faremis, world-class scientist

And was it purely his will? Or was it his will twisted and taken advantage of to fulfill Jenova's goals?

I think the reality is it's not perfectly clear, it's ambiguous - because at some point the boundaries of where "Jenova" ends and "Sephiroth" begins become blurry. And that's perfectly fine, to not have a solid answer, and is in fact very much in line with other themes of the story, of people being uncertain about their past and their true identity.

I have not even once said that he physically moved, I've said his spirit traveled down there and not deep within itself.

I wonder how they'll handle the weapon fights because the things are FUCK huge, it'd look silly with them scurrying around the feet like little rodents. Also wtf will they do about emerald since it's underwater?

>what the fuck happened to Cloud after he fell into the lifestream in this scene
Mako poisoning is basically an overload of knowledge that your mind can't process.
Sephiroth mantained his personality thanks to his alien nature, Cloud only could become himself again with Tifa's help.

Jenova mindfucks with Cloud and his friends through out the game, making them think they are fighting Sephiroth and chasing after him. She nevers stops doing that. "Safer" is a a transformation from Jenova's previous form, Bizarro - which itself is a transformation from Synthesis. At first you face Synthesis which is Jenova in one of her pure forms (pure meaning it's only her by herself - not mixed with the body of Seph), after that she transforms into a big scary Sephiroth monster to mess with the protagonists to break their wills, and when that form is defeated she creates Safer to impress and shock them as much as possible. They then kill her for good, then Cloud symbolically erases the last remaining parts of the "Sephiroth" illusion. That's it, they have not physically defeated Jenova; Cloud has finally overcome all control she had over him.

In pic related you can easily see the "evolution" of her forms, notice the wings in particular.

Attached: Jenova's final forms.jpg (1280x720, 96K)

Sephiroth's will is full of hatred and also he has a powerful will, he used the lifestream to gain knowledge.
Cloud just became overloaded with it, for a second time.

And it's ambiguous until you discover that it was Sephiroth guiding Cloud to him using Jenova's body as he was incapacitated in that crystal.
The will is Sephiroth's, the means is Jenova's body.

You are wrong. Jenova doesn't totally asume Sephirot's identity until they are in the boat going to costa del sol and it's clear it isn't going arround in that form all the time.
It leads Cloud and others all arround because of the reunion, in the boat, it doesn't even know who Cloud is.
All who had that much jenova cells in them were called because all the parts were calling to eachother.
And it's not Cloud's relationship to Sephirot that binds the plot, but rather, Aerith, the last ancient dying. Why do you insist in turning this great plot in a dull shonen duel is beyond belief.
As you have 0 actualy in-game lore to support your interpretation, I declare your perspective invalid on grounds of being uninteresting.
Case closed.

Sephiroth's goal is essentially 3rd Impact. He wants to kill all living things and use the lifestream to become a god. Then he'd just float around and continue where Jenova left off.
Jenova, is a parasite that mindfucks everyone to death. It never cared about the lifestream or anything other than killing all living creatures. Jenova was the one who corrupted the Lifestream which let Sephiroth survive and learn all about the true nature of the planet.

As for the thread topic, Sephiroth uses the REunion to get the Black Materia. He knows Jenova isn't his mother during the time period that he's in the lifestream.

Attached: Final Fantasy VII Disc 2-180929-1304081311.png (960x2810, 2.64M)

It knows about the Black Materia because it is Jenova all along, and it's a being more smart than everyone gives it credit for.
How does it know about Black Materia? first hand experience, it almost wiped out the Cetra.

what the fug is that box monster under gighee on the left? I've never seen it and it looks different than all the others

>then Cloud symbolically erases the last remaining parts of the "Sephiroth" illusion.

Cool, but why did Sephiroths will linger in Advent Children again? It's been over a decade since I've watched it, did the plot make any sense again?

Sephiroth uses Jenova powers, not the other way around.
Jenova has no beef with Cloud, Sephiroth does, Jenova doesn't want to become an all powerful god, Sephiroth does.
Jenova and Sephiroth are one, I'm not sayong that they aren't, but it's Sephiroth the one behind it all, Jenova just wants to eat.

At this point I think I'm being baited silly.

Ethics department will make her tits smaller and remove her iconic nipple eye thing.

Attached: 1560284032799.jpg (375x455, 63K)

Is that on emulator or a photo of a screen?

So they really liked The Thing back in the 90s?

Y E S
Thank you.

So what exactly is the black materia anyways, is it just a large materia corrupted by jenova cells, or was it something the planet made for shits and giggles?

The truth. This is the pure escence of the game.

I thought it was some kind of bolt before, you’re not alone

There is a definitely a hole and you could try it but I wouldnt recommend

Attached: 1535325297590.jpg (600x759, 54K)

I never understood why the party went full force against Shinra when they tried to nuke the meteor with the huge materia. By the time the rocket hits meteor, its just that, an empty, tiny rocket and it still managed to make quite a dent. They might have pulled it off if you didnt steal all the materia.

They used the same kind of plot point when FF10 was written. The dead can linger if they're strong-willed enough. In Sephiroth's case, it wasn't just his will but also the fact that he is genetically part-Jenova that made him powerful enough to linger after his body was destroyed.

Yeah, and that's already at the point where Sephiroth is composed of nothing but Jenova cells rejected by the lifestream.

There's also nothing saying Hojo is completely right in this. He STARTS that sequence by saying his previous theory was wrong.

Shits and giggles.

Retroarch with crt-easymode.

Attached: Final Fantasy VII Disc 2-180929-182440.png (960x720, 826K)

Wasn't it something the ancients made to kill Jenova?

Looks fucking great

I don't remember, that's why I asked, cause I always thought that was the explicit purpose as too why holy exists, as the general fuck you magic too stupid shit that would wreck the planet.

It was the shrunken temple of the ancients, where a big pool of souls from the Cetra stayed instead of going back to the planet. The materia is the miniature temple, and it was shrunken using a puzzle like mechanism inside.
We don't know more about it. When the party gets there, Aerith has a really hard time talking to them and not much is known.

>Or was it his will twisted and taken advantage of to fulfill Jenova's goals?
Jenova wants to devour the planet, shit it out and move on, Sephiroth wanted to wipe out humanity no reset the planet, not destroy it.

Well, the lifestream may want to relocate itself or partially recover some strength, that destructive magic makes sense to achieve that.

Lavos did it better

>blowing up the planet helps fix the lifestream of the planet
Idk about that chief.

If you were disappointed op wasn't porn, look up meandraco on e621

I'm not certain, if you gave up replying, because you think I'm not getting your point, so I'm being as open and explicit as I can.

I do not think the fight with Sephiroth is an illusion. It really happens within the Lifestream, since the Lifestream (although parts of it are also within humans) and Aerith are present right after. Therefore his spirit/mind must have traveled into the Lifestream (which is a natural place for Sephiroth to revive in) and afterwards Aerith shows Cloud the way back into his body and he wakes up. Furthermore "An answer from the Planet" doesn't make any sense if Cloud didn't converse with the Planet, which he can't do merely within his own mind.

And that The Maiden who Travels the Planet seems to agree with my interpretation of the events if you listen to it long enough after the point I showed.

I too am worried about the music but we havent heard all that much yet. The opening from the recent e3 intro sounds good and i think the battle theme sounded ok too. And i dont think that half assed boss theme from the scorpion gameplay is final, just generic trailer stuff, the gameplay footage has obvious cuts while the music keeps playing and it ends perfectly with the scorpion falling. What im worried about though is them going full orchestra when the original thrived alot on synths.

And Lavos did it better by not being put in a tube by a crazy scientist haha

When you see the purpose of Omega, Meteor having a similar but contained goal doesn't seem too farfetched.
Maybe it's just the autodestruction/suicide switch of the planet.

>Is an illusion
Not an illusion, but it's really an introspective battle in the sense that it doesn't happen in the physical world.

this Cloud's spirit does not travel into the lifestream. The final battle with Sephiroth occurs within his own mind. It is Cloud severing himself from Sephiroth's influence, both literally and metaphorically. It is Cloud resolving to be his own man from that point on while also being Cloud removing Sephiroth's will from inside his own spirit.

>to manipulate everyone

Jenova takes the form of Sephiroth because Sephiroth is its host/brain. All the Sephiroth clones are an extension of his body.

Because Lavos wasn't stupid enough to reveal itself to the living world until he was ready to destroy and devour it. He'd have gotten away with it too, had his presence not created temporal distortions that allowed time-travel to be possible.

Someone who played the game, finally.
Bless you.

Don't argue with me pleb, you have no idea what you're talking about.
You're a fucking idiot to believe that shit, too.

Wasn't it stated that no one knew where the time gates came from and it was thought to have been the planet that made them?

Do you consider the Lifestream part of the physical world? I assume you do, so therefore you must interpret the Sephiroth fight as a mental battle within Cloud (Officially you're correct about this by the way) over full control of himself? If so, there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit. Why is there Lifestream imagery, Aerith and an answer from the Planet about meeting Aerith in the Promised Land? Did Cloud make those up, since the Planet couldn't have talked to him. This seems counter to the themes of the game, where the truth of Cloud's identity sets him free and makes him stronger. It's about living in truth and not just making up things you want. There must've been an actual Answer from the Planet.

It's been years since I played the game, does anyone have any reservations about Cloud claiming to be a SOLDIER first class when it's well documented all first class SOLDIERs were absolute monsters?

So you're baiting.
Nice to know.

>freed

Jenova wasn't held captive. It literally walked out when Sephiroth awakened. The reason it was inactive was that it was effectively dead even though its cells lived. Sephiroth is the new Jenova and he awakened all the Jenova cells to carry out their purpose and devour the planet. Without Sephiroth there is no plot.

It's left way ambiguous, yeah. The scene where you can go back and save Lucca's mother from losing her legs even implied that it was "some other entity", seemingly implying a 4th wall break in pointing out that the player is the reason the rifts exist.

I personally think it's Lavos' presence that was the catalyst, because there was nothing in Chrono Trigger that implied the planet itself had any form of sentience or self preservation instinct.

I would add that Jenova Birth, Jenova Life, and Jenova Death are clearly visible in wing colors of Safer Sephiroth. This is intentional. Sephiroth fanboys will interpret it as him paying respects to his "mommy" by using her colors, but I say it's simply Jenova being Jenova.

Also you have to ask yourselves if an attack like Supernova is actually happening or not. What's more likely, that it's physically occuring, or that it's Jenova playing mind tricks? Yes of course there are plenty of unbelievable attacks/summons through out the games but that one is a bit over the top.

Advent Children is basically just a bad fanfic. The real reason Sephiroth came back for the movie was real world financial profits, nothing else. Same reason why Rufus survived.

>Jenova has no beef with Cloud
She does. She has a beef with all Earthlings, especially Cloud and his companions. And it's obvious when you consider what Jenova is and what she wants. She wants to consume the planet. Cloud wants to save the planet. Jenova has the most beef with those who try the most to protect the planet, hence why she had Aeris killed (and made Cloud believe it was Sephiroth who did it to divert attention away from herself). Furthermore, the Shinra corporation is used by Jenova to further her goals; to weaken the planet. Cloud and co opposes the Shinra. She has every reason to see Cloud and his allies as her enemies.

No, you're just an idiot.

>and made Cloud believe it was Sephiroth who did it to divert attention away from herself
How does this work when Sephiroth and Jenova are intrinsically linked again

>Why is there Lifestream imagery
Because all beings are made of lifestream.
Meeting Aerith in the promised land is just being in contact with the lifestream.
The answer from the ñlanet is that the planet(lifestream) will actually fight to survive. That's why it rises up to fight meteor.

No, because they were only monsters in the Compilation. Five guys killed Zack while he killed two of them. That's grounded and good.

>most houses have guns inside

I imagine that's for fighting off monsters, most cities really don't have anything stopping monsters from getting in so they need some means of defense.

Sephiroth was a monster at the very least IIRC. I take it he was an outlier?

Hello, I wrote: and I agree with you. What I meant was that believes Sephiroth can move through floors because that's what his sprite does in the boat (and right after that; you fight Jenova). That Sephiroth right there which moved through the floor, is of course an illusion created by Jenova. But people like believes that is the real Sephiroth.

No it didn't. Seph fell into the lifestream with the head, then shinra took the body to midgard.
Jenova didn't became physically active until the shinra building arc.

>Jenova has the most beef with those who try the most to protect the planet, hence why she had Aeris killed (and made Cloud believe it was Sephiroth who did it to divert attention away from herself)
You are overcomplicating everything.
>An alien that has been asleep for 2000 years and only wants to feed suddenly has a grudge on some nobodies and a masterplan.
Or
>Sephiroth, who actually had contact with the characters, is the mastermind.

Just stop and consider that Jenova predates Sephiroth by over 2000 years.

It would certainly seem their size is dynamic, as what we've seen from all the weapons in the remake it seems to shrink into the slots. Perhaps because they're imparting their knowledge to the wielder so part of them is kind of infused in them? Just an idea.
Though it should be noted the black materia was unique and large even compared to other materia in it's other appearances.

Attached: 1560710591907.jpg (1920x1080, 240K)

The link is Aerith. It becomes trully personal after Aerith and not before.
Jenova clearly states in Cloud's mind that she is dangerous and must be taken care off.

For the longest time, all I saw was a skinned rabbit hanging upside down.

>is of course an illusion created by Jenova. But people like believes that is the real Sephiroth.
No, I believe it's Jenova body because that's what it leaves behind, but I also believe it's an illusion created by Sephiroth's will using Jenova's abilities.
Don't twist my words.

>constantly shows itself as Sephiroth without any actual reason to do so
>Jenova is the battle before the final battle, without any reason if Jenova was the true villain
>1st final battle is Sephiroth, why would Jenova pic this body
>2nd battle is again Sephiroth and not Jenova
>3rd battle, Clouds battle against the Jenova cells that have control over him, takes the form of Sephiroth (because his will) instead Jenova
There literally never was any evidence, EVER, that Jenova was in control. It was just a retarded fan theory, much like modern faggots love to "interpret" why the fucking curtains are blue in a work from an author that died in 1522 or some shit.
Also Ultimania Omega VII confirmed that Sephiroth was in control.

>Jenova clearly states in Cloud's mind that she is dangerous and must be taken care off.
Jenova only talks once.

>i was put to sleep by people who tried to kill me and stop my plans to consume the planets life force
>i later wake up
>wow i suddenly forgot all that's happened, i don't hate the inhabitants of the this world anymore and i don't care about consuming the planets life force anymore, im now suddenly cool with humans who want to protect this place, i don't mind them anymore
>i absolutely don't feel more hatred than ever and it's not like my desire to consume planet-energy has increased or anything

Attached: Jenova.png (807x1009, 1.23M)

the finale against human sephiroth happens in cloud's head. He's fighting against his inner evil, or the jenova cells.

His dad would have fucked him up

Galactus actually has a purpose on why he devours planets, user, not just because it's part of his "lifecycle".

>Because all beings are made of lifestream.
I can accept this. I even mentioned it.
>Meeting Aerith in the promised land is just being in contact with the lifestream.
I always interpreted that to be when he eventually dies (Well few minutes later actually) and goes back into the Lifestream instead and not mere communication.
>The answer from the ñlanet is that the planet(lifestream) will actually fight to survive. That's why it rises up to fight meteor.
No, the Answer, as Cloud immediately says it when Tifa asks, only concerns how he'll meet Aerith, not the end Meteor events. Next we come to the how would Cloud learn this, since the Lifestream within him/that makes up his entire being is separate from the main Lifestream, that is the Planet? (Unless you think all the Lifestreams on the Planet are connected, which if you take the Cetra way of life into account, could be the case. This is why they could communicate with the Planet so well. However would Cloud have learned this skill, if we go with this direction? Doubtful, I say.) This is at least what Bugenhagen's explanation about the Lifestream seems to imply, that the beings born are separate from the main Lifestream until they return to it and mix to form another new separate being.

>Ultimania Omega VII
non-canon source

I always assumed it was for decoration. The Final Fantasy games, especially the ones that have modern-ish or futuristic tech still use a lot of gothic architecture and artsy stuff. Like when you see them driving a car with gargoyles or church architecture built into it. Style is a big deal. I wish we did that more in the real world.

It also may have been some sort of interface or prosthesis for Jenova.

You're giving an instinct driven parasitic alien lifeform too much credit.

You are putting a lot of character into something that has no defined personality.
Sephiroth is actually the one who has recent motives and personal grudges.
Why overcomplicate things?

>4
No. The final battle against Zeromus is simply hatred personified. He didn't influence shit, just happened to manifest at the end because of Zemus hatred. And Zemus itself gets introduced as the main villain after like 50% of the game.

>9
Pretty much the same shit. The actual main villain was Kuja, Necron is just an uber entity that was impressed by Kuja's will and decided to keep his work up. He didn't influence shit. And Kuja, first introduced as a minor villain, actually rose to the point of the main villain.

>5 and 8
Not sure what you're on about. From the get go Exdeath is printed as the main villain and Ultimecia is printed as the main villain after about 50% of the game.

Really the only FF that has the actual villain only appear at the very end is 10 with Yevon.
But now riddle me this, 10 (and actually all others included) EXPLICITLY stated and showed who the main villain is. Yet 7 is 3deep5u and hides the fact that Jenova controls everything under layers of shitty translation, bad graphics and a retarded fanbase? Not very likely.

>words from the writers themselves
>not canon
Ok, Headcanon-Kouhai.

We already said why, because Jenova never appears as Jenova, but rather as someone you now. Cloud and party were looking for Seph, and it's him they found.
A predator like Jenova would think "they must never find out".
The Septh they look for never once recognices anyone from the party in a familiar way. Not even once. When they talk in the boat "sephirot" says "who are you?"
After he kills Aerith, seph gets surprised that Cloud has feelings. Would a human like Seph doubt that?
The actual final battle is Jenova's first, second and third transformation, and it's mostly in a mind setting.
The thing is like IT, a space predator that reflects it's prey somehow. It assumes Seph form because the party, looking for Septh is there. Since everyone has him in mind, it takes that form so as to not be found, EXACTLY like Ilfana says it did 2000 years ago.
It also has that form because Septh and it's head fell together in the lifestream.

Yes to both.

>That's it, they have not physically defeated Jenova; Cloud has finally overcome all control she had over him.

Fuck. I meant to write:

"They have not ONLY physically defeated Jenova"

So to clarify: They killed her physically AND Cloud overcame all the mental manipulation.

He does? What is it?

George Lucas said Greedo shot first. Doesn't happen in the original movie. Which is canon in your logic?

Where's its $#&*&@ head?

Jenova talks all the time. It says to Cloud that it doesn't recognize him and that the time was up, before leaving a tentacle monster behind and just fly out of cabin boat, seemingly phasing through it.
It appears in the temple of the ancient in a sort of astral form many times, even getting inside the vision the ancients were showing the party.
It tells Cloud to give him the black materia, it talks about Aerith being dangerous and all sort of things.
It's Jenova moving and doing the talking.
Hojo is also wrong about reunion like with a lot of things. Proffesor Gast was the true genius after all.

Jenova is a Jew.

>constantly shows itself as Sephiroth without any actual reason to do so

How about to travel around unimpeded? You're told constantly about a man in a black robe, I think a giant horribly gross space alien would stick out like a sore fucking thumb.

>I always interpreted that to be when he eventually dies
Yes, this also. The promised land is just getting tanged into the lifestream.
You seem to not have a clear understanding on what the lifestream is?
It's just a pool of souls, all the souls merged into a underground sea, you are born from it, you return to it when you die. You are lifestream.

Cetra had the power of comunicating with the souls while being separate from it, like you have a direct comunication with heaven. People lost this ability over time and so forgot what the lifestream really was.

>using souls to power cities

Shinra Inc is pretty metal.

That's Sephiroth you numbskull.
And you know it.
Stop pretending being retarded.

It's AVALANCHE's whole raison d'etre.

>half

At last I truly see.

What I want to know from the Jenova overlady believers is why her modus operandi completely changed as Sephiroth-Jenova, why isn't she just infecting everything in her path with the virus as she trots the globe and instead goes for a very indirect and time consuming Black Materia plan, which if I'm honest sounds like a very human plan and something a certain corpse needs to live again? Why not just dive into the the Lifestream and start drinking your fill?

This way of thinking completely shuts them down so don't expect an answer.

The baiting asshole will concoct an overcomplicated reason for this.
Just wait.

I hope the remake better adresses why Jenovaroth became active only after Cloud is in the Shinra HQ. The game, as far as i understand it, kinda implies they need Cloud and the group to get the black materia but i dont buy it. They could have easily pulled it off alone, with less trouble even. Everything would have worked out.

Will do chief.

Attached: gondola.png (126x91, 18K)

I do think the people are separate from the Lifestream/pool of souls (I just added a possible different interpretation and torpedoed that possibility too.), so that's exactly why I can't rationalize how Cloud could've gotten an answer from the Planet/Lifestream, if he never left his own mind while fighting Sephiroth. He is not even a Cetra, so he has even less of a chance to communicate while being separated from the Planet.

Yet he got an answer. This is exactly why, it makes a whole lot more sense to me that he actually dove into the Lifestream with his mind.

Well, the plan was probably set in motion when Cloud scaped the pod as he is the only clone with enough agency and not a drooling retard babling about a reunion.

No seriously it makes some sense...

> "Ifalna: "That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the sky', as we call it, came. It first approached as a friend, deceived them and finally, gave them the virus. The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad, transforming into monsters. Then, just as it had at the Knowlespole, it approached other Cetra clans, infecting them with the virus..."

Their leaders say themselves that they are aliens from space, see this: e.coka.la/pxpa05.mp4

Knowlespole = middle-east and the mediterranian

The Cetra = Pre-Christian Pagan Europeans

"other Cetra clans" = other pagans (the word pagan means those who are not jews)

>the alien "gave them the virus"
the virus = the abrahamic religions

they became monsters = became Christians who proceeded to engage in senseless brother wars in the name of a alien/foreign god

files.catbox.moe/7w864a.webm

The Thing, JRPG villain edition.

muhther

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You didn't disappoint lad

Attached: 1557263224981.gif (320x283, 1.12M)

It won't. Pepper your angus, because HD Tankceratops is coming for you.

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Yes. Jenova is Jehova aka (((Yahweh))). Also, "Sephiroth" is straight from the Jew religion.

I thought Sephiroth was treated with Jenova DNA while still developing in the womb. Members of SOLDIER basically just get a booster shot of Jenova cells which would explain why they're not as strong or susceptible.

It didn't? She is replicating the initial conditions.
As Ilfana states, something fell from the sky and wounded the planet, causing it to gather a lot of lifestream in the northern crater, ruining the land and covering it in ice in the process.
Jenova must land in the planets with great force to feed from the lifestream right there, exactly like Seph intends to do.
The difference between present time and the battle with the Cetra is that the planet is already in a pretty weakened state. Not only Ilfana states that even after 2000 years the planet is still recovering from the wound Jenova left, but Shinra has put Mako reactors everywhere, debilitating it further.
Jenova is also obviously weakened at the start since it's incomplete. It doesn't return to full strenght untill the end of the reunion.
Using the black materia is just taking care of unfinished buisness, but this time more permanently, and lo and behold! fucking jenova makes a journey to return to where? to the place it landed first.
A better question is: Why the fuck does Sephirot give a damn about the northern crater, and how does he know that Aerith can stop him? He fell to the planet, and ended up there, in the first spot that Jenova touched, to do the same thing Jenova did when it arrived, because he, the SOLDIER hero wanted it.

It's stated by the game that some Cetra learned to stay behind and remain concious instead of going back to the planet, but there is no evidence of anyone doing that besides them, and they are very deteriorated from the process.

>Why the fuck does Sephirot give a damn about the northern crater
He doesn't. That's literally Jenova you're following the whole game. Actual Sephiroth has been crystalized in the lifestream since Nibelheim.

>people are separate from the Lifestream
Yes they are and at the same time they are not.
When a baby is concieved, a little part from the lifestream gets into the baby, as the baby becomes an adult the little lifestream he began with grows with him, his experiences and his knowledge.
When he dies, that new knowledge makes the lifestream grow, and that's why falling into it overflows you with unending knowledge that overloads your brain giving you "mako poisoning"
The Cetra where just the first sentient creatures created by th lifestream, much more atunned to it than any other living being, they cultivated the land because that made the lifestream stronger and also were able to talk to it.
People nowadays can't do it, reason unknown, that doesn't mean that they are not lifestream itself.
Cloud had Mako poisoning twice in his short life and recovered from both, that could make him a little more receptive to the lifestream "will", he also has the help of Aerith, someone who can retain her personality inside the pool of souls.

Lavos?

Jenova's basic MO is to annihilate planets by infecting and destroying other lifeforms, which it does. The lifestream actively fights off foreign invaders though. Sephiroth was simply being influenced by Jenova, which is why their goals coincide.

You might think of Jenova as a dumb lifeform similar to The Thing, but as Ifalna reveals, Jenova had enough intelligence to "approach as a friend" and "deceive" the ancient people. This means she had a cold, calculating mind, capable of deception and treachery, which requires that she could learn human culture and understand the human way of life and so on.

>Knowlespole = middle-east and the mediterranian
That's literally just a mistranslation of north pole, unless you want to suggest goatfuckers are actually indigenous to santaland.

People that think Sephiroth was in control are the same people that complain about Ultimecia only showing up at the end, not realizing she was in control of Edea for the first two discs

Their goals coincide because Sephiroth wants to become the supreme existence and Jenova method seems to work, it's also like a "I luv you mum" letter to her or a sick joke on his own origins.

Doesn't Jenova gain the knowledge and experience of those "she" mimics?

Try this as a quick taste for whats to come: youtube.com/watch?v=jd4Jq9Tzlls

Thats the thing. The only thing Sephiroth could have needed them for is getting the black materia out of the temple, and Cloud clearly says "We cant leave the black materia here, Sephiroth has enough followers who would give their live for him". Thats the only reason he could have needed him for and the game outright denies it. What i could understand plotwise is that Jenova activated because of Clouds presence but its never adressed in the entire compilation afaik. Hence why i said adress it in a better way, right now i see it as a plothole (unless it got ruined in the translation, i played both german and english)

That could be them interpreting the actions as more intelligent than they actually were, of course.

>Jenova crashes
>Infects ancients
>Everyone she infects is given a destructive urge to serve her needs, but their personalities remain intact
>She 'deceives' the ancients by basically infecting their friends and family and giving them this urge, turning their friends and family against them
>Seems like a deceptive, intelligent move but is literally just a virus replicating itself

No? It's obvious Sephiroth is in control and it's clearly stated in VIII that both Adel and Edea were controlled by Ultimecia.

That could be possible too.
I dunno. I just think that an eldritch monstrosity might be predisposed to dicking a person's mind in that way.

Yes of course, you're right about that, but in our world (as opposed to FF7s) the "calamity from the skies" (the jews) first appeared in the middle-east and the mediterranian. Greece and Rome was the first European places to become infected.

Read the convo please, I'm on the "Jenova is the villain" boat.

At last I truly see.

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Sephiroth just sent every single clone after the black materia, hell, you even find them inside the temple, but Cloud was the only one that had the capability to actually get the materia.
Think of it this way, Sephiroth sends his only succesful clone to retrieve the materia with such intensity that all the lesser clones become affected by it and follow Cloud's intended path.
>the game outright denies it
What

I've only heard the battle theme and it's perfect. Sure, it's busier than the original but that is by virtue of it being an 'actual' audio recording done in modern times (layers of layers of sounds) compared to glorious midi of yore. Still, all of the main points from the original are kept and the movements are clear that they are staying close to them as well.

twitter.com/maximilian_/status/1142582990301614082

Honestly, when the 'chimes' come in at the latter part I get goosebumps. Good work, whoever.

>eldritch monstrosity might be predisposed to dicking a person's mind in that way.
Sephiroth is quite the asshole too, you know?

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I have a theory about what happened in the Shinra HQ, but I have 0 proof of it except a minor detail.
Why did the cells open? Did Jenova took the time to go and release the party at some point?
I don't think so. Someone released them and it must have something to do with Jenova escaping.
My theory is this: When Cloud saw Jenova, it mind fucked him right there due to a huge amount of cells, exactly like it happened to Seph in Nibbel. So at some point during the night, Cloud got out somehow, released Jenova like Seph did before, and the returned to the cell to sleep. Clunky as hell, but something happened there.

>What
>"We cant leave the black materia here, Sephiroth has enough followers who would give their live for him".

One of the clones would have gotten it sooner or later.

He didn't come up with the idea that Jenova was a Cetra. That was Gast's idea. Gast was wrong, but Sephiroth didn't know that.

I want to dick misuzu

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The container looks like Jenova forced her way out from the inside.

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It's impossible for it to be Gast idea, as he was married to Ilfana and did the tapes. He knew what Jenova was better than anybody.
He reads about Jenova being an ancient in the shinra mansion. Not sure who wrote those books though.

Kind off...and that blood there...was someone looking at it when it bursted out, killing it in the process?

Ifalna tapes are recorded AFTER he writes his disertation, the ones that are in Nibelheim.

Gast fucking did. Gast was originally doing research on Jenova under the idea it was an ancient. He later realized he was very fucking wrong, which is when he quit Shinra and Hojo took over.
Sephiroth was reading his old, outdated work that he abandoned.

I think Jenova is just a bloody mess that just leaves a trail.

You'd be surprised how many of those can transfer into something menacing

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More importantly, they fail to see and refuse to accept that Rinoa * later became Ultimecia. And yeah they are different individuals, in the same sense that Anakin and Vader are different individuals. **

* in a different timeline than the one we play through (there are multiple timelines, something which is proven just when they arrive at her castle and see future dead SeeDs and Squall comments that SeeDs have fought against her for many generations)

** from a certain point of view, as Kenobi said, Vader did indeed kill Anakin - and similarly Ultimecia did kill Rinoa. You can see the "dead" Rinoa, her past self, hanging upside down beneath Ultimecia in her final form, while Ultimecia's head is empty - her personality and memories all gone (which happened due to having Griever junctioned for at least hundreds of years and probably other forces as well) and becoming absolutely addicted to all sorts of dark magic which can't be healthy (did she even remember to eat food when she got so powerful?)

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Get back to your fairyland, /pol

Yes actually. Thats the raw BG render, in the actual ingame scene a Shinra staff guy is lying in that pool of blood.

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Damn, even the Mono Drives are in the remake and they are totally ridiculous and irrelevant.

Fucking awesome. I stand corrected.

You people make it way too easy to tell you aren't from here.

I'm really sad that shit is probably going to be toned down to keep a T rating. They could easily make that part into a horror scene that rivals shit like the new RE2, but all the blood and dead bodies are probably getting taken out.

> T rating
Not sure how rating in Amerikkka works, but sure Barret is gonna say some Fuck bombs now and then. Blood is nothing.

They were already saying things like "shit" and "fuck" in the E3 stuff, something thats apparently way worse than blood and gore.

Would Sephiroth have lost his shit if he found out the actual truth? The only difference between him and the other SOLDIERs was that he was injected with Jenova cells as an embryo.

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Did Barret actually drop F bombs in the E3 trailers? I heard shit, but that's always been just a T rating thing.

Am I the only one growing up that thought Jehovah's witnesses were Jenova's witnesses?

that's the black materia. it was fucking huge compared to normal materia.

When the scorpion shoots the laser for the first time, Barret jumps out of cover and says "Fuck all this".
Funilly the only line that didnt have subtitles.

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It probably would be more traumatic.
It's one thing thinking you were different because you are the rightful heir of the planet and other just knowing you are half alien.
He was vicious with the first, knowing the real truth would be disastrous as it indeed was later on.

He said "Suck on this" while he fired charged shots at that part.

Why'd he fuck up his mom? Also could Jenova have been a good parent?

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Many lines don't have subs, mostly the ones that describe the actions of the player, like changing characters, getting out of cover etc.

Lucrecia was his mom.

Why is Lavos so fucking lame? Like the set up and build up to him is great... But then you actually see what it is and just

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I hate the excesive amount of party banter they have, and how they pumped up the scorpion with cinematics at health points and such.
It was a fairly quick battle that now looks like a cinematic boring clusterfuck that will make replaying it a chore.
The game was fucking fast, and now it's going to be super slow.

Damn, heard it again just to check, you may actually be right.
Sad.

>Toriyama-san please design the most generic bug robot possible

>Let me just draw Cell again

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>sephi becomes a good boy
>helps take down Shinra
>helps take Jenova out
>revives Gakt to kill him again
>lives rest of his life in Wutai with Jessie and has 20 children

He must have found out later on in the lifestream, but by that point he didn't give a shit.

I'm asking what would have happened if he never read those misleading books in Nibelheim and learned the truth long before it.

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