Was Sephiroth dead the entire time as Cloud technically killed him when he threw Sephiroth off the reactor?

No

Both are great, which one is better will depend on you.

Jenova is essentially braindead because of its prior defeat and years of subjugation. Sephiroth's will is what is controlling the Jenova cells. However, Sephiroth's madness induced by him finding out about Jenova, the ancients, and everything else, has caused him to attempt to enact the same sort of planet eating behavior that Jenova exhibited.

Even though Jenova is dead and is being controlled by Sephiroth during the events of the game, Sephiroth is ultimately enacting Jenova's will in its place, becoming the new "Jenova." The true villains/antagonists of Final Fantasy VII are Jenova and Hojo.

We don't really know if Jenova is braindead or just being subtle though.
Sephiroth just going 'mad' is in my opinion him being influenced by Jenova. Why didn't he go insane instantly from it?, Because he got close to her and after time in Nibelheim he was twisted by it into being a killing machine.
He exihibits the same behaviour because he is being controlled by it, though by his actions he seems willing since he is longing for a mother and it twisted that desire into something to control him with.
Jenova is a monster that eats planets, Hojo is just pure evil and arbitary about life in the pursuit of his own science and I think you could see Sephiroth as tragic even and not just the BBEG.

Regardless of whether it's Jenova actually braindead or initially controlling Sephiroth in a subtle manner, by the end of the game, it's a pretty reasonable conclusion that they are one and the same entity and mind.

Being that Jenova was the catalyst and the initial "horror from the sky," I feel regardless of whether it's Sephiroth or Jenova in control, Jenova is certainly a primary antagonist. The reason I consider Hojo a main antagonist as well is because he is the enabler. After Jenova's defeat and subjugation, it is Hojo who takes every step necessary for Jenova/Sephiroth to once again try to eat the planet.

And yes, I agree that Sephiroth can be seen as a tragic character. He never had a chance to begin with. He was literally conceived and born to be a science experiment.

Seeing as Jenova is definitely inspired by the alien from the Thing, I don't think we could possibly fathom what its purpose or wants are, if it even has them. After all, we basically only know a few details about it before Sephiroth's birth.

1. Jenova had the ability to duplicate itself and infect others with its own cells. It destroyed the Cetra civilization by infecting many living things.

2. The infected could be recalled in process called Reunion.

That's all we know. Even Sephiroth's idea that Jenova traveled from planet to planet seeking the Promised Land seems suspect, given that that concept is entirely a Cetra idea about reunion with the planet's lifestream.

If anything, Jenova seems more like the extraterrestrial from Annihilation: A creature of pure chaos that can only copy and mutate life.

I always interpreted Jenova as a mix of Lavos from Chrono Trigger because it eats planets to live/propagate itself.
But also it's very similar to the Mitochondria Eve from Parasite Eve in that it is inside people with its cells and can influence/control people due to those cells.
I think in the game they mention something about Jenova wanting to tap into the lifestream energy to eat it for power but I can't remember.
Still I think its a good way to tell a story about these two enemies in the background that influence the strong character into doing the thing that they cannot do or simple want to see happen.

It's alright.
No, but they're both great.

play VIII. its the best.

Get out. The only thing good in VIII was Triple Triad.

Crisis Core is ok, has a lot of stupid added aspects though
FFIX is slightly better in my opinion. But they're both among the best FF games and well worth playing

Your comparison with Parasite Eve is apt, as Jenova was originally supposed to be some kind of genetic ability available to some humans. I believe Aerith was supposed to have it innately, while in Sephiroth it was awoken by Shinra's science department.

No, but a lot of the encounters with him are just Jenova pretending to be him while trying to reassemble.

Sephiroth is Jenova.

Crisis Core is entirely carried by Zack being the most charming motherfucker alive. Gameplay is boring and the new plot elements that aren't just about Zack specifically are pretty bad.

I like IX more than VII but whether it's actually better is debatable. The trance system is not as well designed as VII's limit breaks and the battle system is very slow because it was so graphically intensive for the PS1

Yes and yes.

CC is decent unless you've never played FF7.
I only say that because some folks I've talked with that only played CC and never FF7 have a fucked idea of the base story.

IX the best of the series by far

Crisis Core would have been fine if Cloud wasn't so awkward in the ending and everything with Gacktsis was fucking removed. I'd say Angeal too, but I don't think giving Zack a mentor was that bad an idea, the whole cell degradation thing was a fucking stupid way to drive the plot though though

No
Maybe, FFIX has a much better pacing, so it’s less of a chore to play, but overall FFVII has a much better story, even though the presentation is worse.

More like in a coma.

CC is mediocre with a fun story.
IX is fun with a shit story.

Not really

No, it’s too slow. And I do not mean narratively.

Maybe and maybe

FFIX is a huge chore to play with how slow battles are

So, Terra and Kefka?

>We don't really know if Jenova is braindead or just being subtle though.
No, we do. Hojo even says as much. The entire reason he freaks the fuck out at the crater and takes control of the sister ray is because his hypothesis about Jenova driving the Reunion was wrong, and that he realizes it's actually Sephiroth (his son) that was behind everything. It drives him quite literally mad with joy and fascination.

Yes, Sephiroth dies in the reactor. Sephiroths fucked up mako energy can't merge with the lifestream, and he starts eating mako energy and calling jenova cells to the northern crater in order to create a new body out of jenova cells.

I sorta liked Crisis Core, Zack was fantastic, Sephiroth being a bro was great and the last stand was something.
Genesis was a fucking mistake.

youtube.com/watch?v=DNHsgtyL_KI
CC has some strong points like Zack and the music, but it's kind of a pain. Definitely emulate it and use save states. Sitting through the Sephiroth cutscene before the boss fight gets tiring quick.
If you easily backlog games and drop em at stupid shit, watch a playthrough on YouTube.

Getting stabbed in the chest and falling into the lifestream would've finished off any normal person, but Jenova cells made him practically immortal, same as how Jenova was long dead but her cells were still active. His body was in some kind of restorative coma in his little crystal thing, while his mind was controlling what was left of Jenova and her cells.

youtube.com/watch?v=MOJ91H4mraU

>I sorta liked Crisis Core, Zack was fantastic, Sephiroth being a bro was great and the last stand was something.

Doesn't CC say that Sephiroth was planning to retire after the Nibelheim mission? Even by the 90s the Simpsons was mocking hackneyed shit like this.

Attached: 6XbQA4e.jpg (600x462, 75K)

From what is understood, the real Seph died, and the only thing that survived is the Jenova cells that spread across the Earth.

Everybody mentions clones, but thats not even correct, its just humans who happened to be infected by Jenova cells and having their own cellular composition rewrote and turned into flesh blob monsters and become parts.

Just think of Jenova as The Thing monster, it enters you, replicates you, moves onto another, eventually all becoming one thing, that's why he was a mass of shit towards the end.

No and no. Both games are for babies.

Mario is for babies.

Yeah, he was getting disillusioned with the whole Genesis thing. I had to laugh a bit with that 'one day before retirement' shit

Wrong. see Jenova was a viral lifeform. It just works on instinct, infecting creatures to replicate itself. Sephiroth took that power and bent it to his will.

The fuck is wrong with Dyne? Also, lmao, Barret a manlet.

>Sephiroth took that power and bent it to his will.
That's the thing, that's not Sephiroth, its just Jenova and even after everything Jenova still exists and continues to infect people.

There is no way to get rid of it.

I don't think Jenova is as brain dead as everyone makes it out to be. There's no way it's just a coincidence that Sephiroth loses his shit, comes back to life in a sense due to those cells, and then decides that the best course of action is to eat the fucking planet just like the eldritch abomination alien wanted to do. That said I don't think it was all Jenova either. It's more likely the two entered some kind of symbiotic relationship with Jenova subtly guiding Sephiroth in his motivation but allowing him to control the cells and basically have him be the "face" of the relationship.

Nope it's Sephiroth. Hojo says so. Sephiroth's body dissolved in the Mako furnace, but his Jenova genes couldn't be absorbed into the Lifestream, and he was spat out at the Northern Crater, where he crystallized and rebuilt his body, using his newfound telekinesis to manipulate events. The rivalry between Cloud & mortal nemesis loses all dramatic weight if it's just some alien clone.
Plus the FFVII Ultimania Omega said that Sephiroth's the boss.

>Plus the FFVII Ultimania Omega said that Sephiroth's the boss.
Anywhere I can read that online? Sounds like a good read.

I really want to see how they translate Jenova BIRTH/LIFE/DEATH battle models into modern graphics.

It's not going to look nearly as horrifying as it should if they want to keep that ebin T rating. I think that whole Jenova HQ part is definitely getting toned down along with some of the creepier enemy designs like Jenova, the Gelnika monsters, Hojo's mutations, etc.

>Its Sephiroth.
>But his Jenova cells are all that survived.
>Nothing is left of Sephiroth but the Jenova cells so its Sephiroth.
Bruh those Ultimania guide's are always weird but the game pretty much tells you.

The real bad guy is Shinra.

>>Its Sephiroth.
>>But his Jenova cells are all that survived.
>>Nothing is left of Sephiroth but the Jenova cells so its Sephiroth.

Sephiroth is part-Jenova, so yes. Why do you think he rebuilt himself as Sephiroth if it's not actually Sephiroth?
Cloud is the hero, Sephiroth is the villain. Making it Jenova all along undermines that completely.

>Bruh those Ultimania guide's are always weird

"Official book contradicts my old-ass, long debunked theory so I'll throw it out as weird"

Yes and no.
I will argue that Sephiroth died even before Cloud chucked him into the life stream.
He was kind, logical, caed deeply about his friends, hated fuckers like Hojo for their shitty experiments and was completely devoid of arrogance. All of these traits are completely gone when he burns Nibelheim.

I think the way Angeal and Genesis deteriorated physically, a similar thing happened to Sephiroth's mind thanks to Jenova cells. Now I think Sephiroth is strong enough to resist it naturally but the psychological trauma he experienced was just too much, that's why he "snapped".
It's really Jenova ""controlling"" his body at that point.

Attached: 1560114328891.png (1280x720, 418K)

I finished this game and I still don’t know the story

>Muh official book.
The official story has changed 3 times now, and the remake looks to change it again. So using that arguments pretty bad.

Because Seph's cells fused with Jenova's when he was developing in the womb. Jenova's cells allow Seph's consciousness to move through the lifestream and reconstitute himself. Maybe Jenova's alien instincts have some influence but Seph is still the face and consciousness of the two.