No 3rd party characters

Why do Hoennfags have garbage taste in pokemon?

3/10 bait, made me reply but is too obvious to get a higher score

they were being death-marched to finish the game, there was no way "they could have waited"

There is a "story" mode though, it's very primitive but Adventure mode exists.

Smash Melee came before the GBA was out you faggot.

If they could have waited, Snake and Sonic would have been in Melee.

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Daily reminder that Meleefags get triggered way too easily. Daily reminder that people who actually follow Melee tournaments are pathetic.

Daily reminder that footballfags get triggered way too easily. Daily reminder that people who actually follow NFL games are pathetic.

Not even a Hoennfag but Groudon/Kyogre would have been badass as Pokeballs

What is more socially acceptable, following NFL or following Melee tournaments? That's what I thought. Also, daily reminder that Meleefags like you need to take a fucking shower.

This holy fuck

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Momentum, Di, less one shot items and more than one pokeball at a time.
It's better casual and competitively

What is more socially acceptable, being a regular person or sucking cock? That's what I thought. Also, daily reminder that antiMeleefags like you need to take a fucking shower.

Who made this thread again?

Anyone who likes Melee is a fucking faggot who needs to kill themselves

Fucking americans, I swear.

Its old and all the 'players' are middle aged men who played it back in school during their childhood and cant move on. Its actual garbage and they just cling to it and nobody can get them off because their stench forces any attempt away

Cry more, faggot. I'll be chilling here labbing melee while I T-bag shitters in CS 1.6.

It's the Meleefags like you that stink up the convention centers though

What do you enjoy doing, user?

source of the official patch

fucking rosterfags i swear

Nigga, I hate smash as much as the next guy, but literally EVERY gathering of apes smell like shit. Go to a circus? It smells like shit. Go to a sports game of any kind? It smells like shit. Go to ESL? It smells like a barn full of shit.

t. MTG player who knows his shit.

>no Simon Belmont and Mega Man is better than Simon Belmont and Mega Man

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why are the the top smash4/5 played psychically deformed?

what is it about he game at attracts abominations?

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>ESL
English as a Second Language?

Both have been Poké Ball Pokémon though? It’s fair to forget about Groudon since he was cut after Brawl and didn’t do much there, but Kyogre has been one for three installments in a row now.

Contrary to popular belief, wavedashing and L-Canceling as well as the litany of other cool tech skill tricks are not what make melee popular and held onto. It's the ability to do the coolest shit out of any game in the series. Players that can apply their creativity and skill can do some wildly entertaining combos and loads of other cool shit. It's simply the most interesting fighting game to watch and play by a wide margin. And seeing newer he's forsake what made melee so great is incredibly disappointing. I love all the smash games btw I'm not just some melee elitist faggot coming to trash the other games. But implying that this game isn't special and unique in fantastic ways is some single digit iq shit.

Why do so many of you guys got such an hate bonner for melee? The game just play differently from others smash games, simple as

Of course. Why else do you think esports are dominated by Koreans?

You're right, there is no reason to use this silly abbreviation

Newer games*

It’s ironic, cause had Brawl not been such unplayable garbage, the Melee meme wouldn’t have stuck so hard.

The mechanics were really fun, that's it really. Nobody denies that the next games had a better roster.
>No Final Smashes
Not a selling point whatsoever, literally just a ball you catch and win a match. It's basically the hammer from Smash 64. It's fun, sure, but not a main selling point.
>Fox and Falco master race
Well, not exactly, there's Sheik, Peach and Marth, but yes, I do believe Melee has Brawl level shit balancing that people are simply ignoring. I mean so far the only two games to even be remotely fair in balancing are 64 and Ultimate
>No story mode
Yeah, but it did have an adventure mode, which was kinda nice (also kinda lame)
>Characters look like shit
Aw cmon, they look good, I like the colour choices honestly

Melee's pretty fun, but Ultimate's superior in mechanics, graphics and roster. If you think it's not good because wavedashing is not a usefull move then just look at the dash mechanics. Melee 2 Electric Boogaloo basically, just way less janky.

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TAKE A SHOWER AND CHECK MY FIVE

>No 3rd party characters
Not even a meleefag but how is this a bad thing?

what is it about melee that attracts chads?

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All Smash games have DI and Momentum you dumb nigger.

>post melee smash
>momentum

lmao...

Tl;dr

>OLD GOOD NEW BAD
>NOOOO NEW GOOD OLD BAD
Shut the fuck up you triple-niggers each game has its own pros and cons, people enjoy both for different reasons. I'd tell you to kill yourself, but that would probably be an improvement compared to your current sorry-ass state of existence

>posting a well thought out response to bait

wow

>Only 2 gens of Pokemon despite coming out during the GBA era
>Ruby/Sapphire came out in 2002
>Melee came out in 2001
Alright, this is bait.

>stupid moron that doesn't understand that without momentum, you’d be unable to do diagonal jumps
Did you fail physics and computer science retard? Momentum on jumps has been dialed back cause Sonic is in the game now, but it’s still there you utter moron.

Part of my duty, sir.

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The ability to do cool shit while also having interesting counterplay (looking at you 64) are what give melee it's staying power and devoted fanbase. Not acknowledging this is retarded

>Ultimate's superior in mechanics
That is simply not true. Melee allows for a lot more freedom and expression. Characters are also a lot more unique without the need of gimmicks.

Please refer to

OP here, it is absolutely not bait and those are all serious complaints I have about the game.

>2019
>smash5 tourny viewership still cant reach melees numbers

how do they keep fucking it up so bad?
they know what the winning formula is but refuse to do it.
they refuse to do it but at the same time make the sequels a little more like melee, why dont they just do it all at once?

You can do cool shit in Ultimate, and hell, even 4 (though that one is more restrained). It’s inherent to the nature of Smash Bros.

Reason Melee is so popular is cause Brawl was literally unplayable garbage thanks to the molasses engine, tripping, and MK. Had Brawl even been half as good as Ultimate mechanically or fuck, even 4, it would never have stuck around as long.

Not acknowledging this proves you’re an underage bandwagon faggot.

>Aw cmon, they look good
no, they may have looked good at the time but characters in melee have not aged well at all

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>t-there's still momentum guys, it's just bad now because of this low tier characterThis nigger had ZERO kill moves in Brawl outside a f-smash read we added that also delayed the game
>What's that? The physics looked bad even from the E3 2006 trailer? Just ignore that

Did you do your fucking homework? Nice 2.0 GPA, faggot.

Than you should really reconsider your opinions after getting a little more information. Let go of you bias against the melee community as elitist faggots, and open your eyes to one of coolest games ever made.

>complains about no Gen 3 Pokemon despite being released in 2001
Guess you're just retarded then. Whether it's bait or just retardation, either way it's a trash post.

>Melee allows for a lot more freedom and expression.
Prove it.

>Characters are also a lot more unique without the need of gimmicks.
This is false. Zoners like Zelda and Heavyweight Grapplers like DK get bodied cause the mechanics and meta favors Rushdown.

>You can do cool shit in Ultimate, and hell, even 4
Nowhere to the same degree.
>Not acknowledging this proves you’re an underage bandwagon faggot
He had no reason to address that in his post, so why are you so fucking defensive?

Doesn't matter, it's still a flaw

He doesn't need to prove shit. People smarter than you have already done that.

You didn’t address my point at all. Looks like you also failed reading comprehension. Go back to school kid, Melee is rotting your brain.

>Even smash 4
Underage, off my board, faggot.

>Let go of you bias against the melee community as elitist faggots, and open your eyes to one of coolest games ever made.
I like Melee and this is cringe as shit

You don't know what you're talking about. Zelda gets destroyed because she has like three good moves and her frame data is shit. DK gets bodied because he's huge, his only good OoS option is Up-B, and his combo tree is entirely upair juggles.

The meta is dominated by defensive players.

He does if he wants to be taken seriously. Either way, I don’t give a fuck.

Imma have a fap to some JAV, and go for a run. Smell ya later, nerds.

what happened to westballz?
he seemed to place well at every major but then sort of disappeared

What the fuck is wrong with you? How is that a flaw? This is like complaining that Gen 5 Pokemon weren't in Melee, or that Captain Toad wasn't in the game. Do you have a mental disability?

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Ultimate Zelda would still get bodied in Melee, despite being mid-tier in Ultimate. DK is still huge in Ultimate, and doesn’t get 0-deathed by Spacies. Stop denying that Melee’s balance is shit compared to later games.

>says jump momentum was dialed back because of Sonic
>user points out that it was dialed back long before sonic's inclusion while also mentioning Sonic would've been shit with proper jump momentum anyway

Except that he did, you retarded Tr4shnigger.

There's a fundamental problem in the design goals the devs had after melee. They went oh shit. The skill ceiling is too high and inexperienced players have no shot at competing with experienced players.

So they decided to make every game less combo heavy and make it so the game is for the most part about winning neutral over and over again.

This kills the pace of matches, is less fun to watch, and even if you can do some cool shit, which they've severely limited in brawl through Ultimate, it's a bad idea to go for the coolest most fun shit.

>The meta is dominated by defensive players.
Camping by sticking to the corner, and spamming the same disjoint over and over, isn’t “defensive” play. It’s just an annoying exploit.

Remember that moment you had when you came back to Melee after playing lots of Brawl after its release, and Melee felt like it was in super turbo speed?

Huh, where have we seen this before recently?

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Except he didn’t, because Sonic was planned from the getgo you moron. Do you even game design?

THEY COULD HAVE FUCKING WAITED ONE MORE YEAR and since Gamecube and GBA went hand in hand this is an unacceptable flaw

Exactly. And it's quite sad. There are ways to balance the game without killing what makes your game special.

Not him but I don't keep up with Melee. What happened now, the meta changed or did some players change around?

>Prove it.
I main Falcon in both Melee and Ultimate, so I'm pretty confident in talking this, as he's very combo-heavy in both titles. Melee has more hitstun giving yourself more time for positioning *during* combos, which is essential for giving you more freedom during your combos. Secondly, DI is a lot more prominent in Melee than in Ultimate, which gives the receiving player more opportunities to escape combos. Consequently, it forces me as Falcon to adjust my combos continuously as I react to my opponent's DI, unlike in Ultimate, where I can to a much larger degree stick to my flowchart combo.

Another thing about more hitstun is that I have access to more combos at different percentages. In Melee, you have consistent combo starters at basically any % except 0, giving me the option of starting a combo based on what openings I get. In Ultimate, I need to be more aware of my opponent's %, since combo starters only work in certain windows of percentage. (For an arbitrary character), I know that stomp won't give me any combos before ~20%, raptor boost won't give me anything after 60%, dthrow won't give me anything good after 50%, falling uair won't give me anything until after this or that %, and so on. And so I'll be fishing for one or two things depending on what % you're at instead of having full freedom throughout your entire stock. For example, one of my favorite set-ups is nair 1 -> short-hop FF uair -> knee, but in Ultimate, it only works at certain percentages, while you see setups into falling uair -> knee in Melee all the time, just see n0ne play.
>Zoners like Zelda and Heavyweight Grapplers like DK get bodied cause the mechanics and meta favors Rushdown
This has nothing to do with whether they feel unique or not. Also, saying the meta favors rushdown is pretty strange considering Hbox is #1. Game balance is of course an advantage Ultimate has, but that's not what we're discussing.

>delay the GameCube's killer app from just after launch to a year after launch just to put in Gen 3 Pokemon
This is totally retarded logic and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are either an idiot or a child.

>No 3rd party characters
>Implying that's a bad thing
>Character models look like shit
Wrong. Melee has some of the best models of the 6th generation
>You need to play as Fox or Falco to have a fighting chance
wrong
>No final smashes
>Implying that's a bad thing
>No story mode
It has an Adventure Mode and Event Mode which cover everything that would have been in a story mode without shoving a shitty story down the player's throat
>Only 2 gens of Pokemon despite coming out during the GBA era
It came out a year before gen 3 you fucking retard

More neutral is more fun, as it means more decision-making, especial for a game like Smash. You want ToD combos? Play DBFZ.

The decision to nerf rushdown to give other playstyles more of a chance was not a bad one. And I’m glad the games have moved more toward a middle ground. Meleefags don’t understand fighting games. Their definition of “varied playstyles” is giving everyone the same playstyles and similar tools, while giving their combos different gimmicks, as seen by Project M. Ivysaur, Zelda, Ike, etc... all infinitely more creative in Ultimate than in PM.

There's no momentum, your jump is always the same distance.
>just nerf the whole game instead of making sonics aerials weaker
Imagine playing super mario without momentum, it would play like shit too.
The real reason momentum is gone is because it's considered advanced tech.

>Sonic was planned from the getgo

No, that was Snake. Sonic was added much later into development. If he was planned that soon, he would've replaced Snake in the first trailer since Sonic's popularity blows Snake's out of the water. Please stop being retarded.

Ultimate is a better game, and all the critics from meleeniggers usually comes down to "it's not like melee", which is not a valid critisicm as if it was like melee, it would be a worse game.

when your console's killer app is a subpar fighting game you know it's fucking doomed to an eternity of inferiority to the PS2

>my main has been nerfed therefore the whole game is shit.
Learn to be less subjective
>Zelda
Her playstyle is the most unique that its ever been thanks to Phantom and all the set-up play.

>Sonic was planned from the getgo you moron.
Sonic was very obviously a late inclusion, he has basically no presence in Subspace. It's easy to tell that Sonic, Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link weren't in the cards from the beginning since they don't do much of anything in Subspace, which otherwise utilizes every single other character in the game.

>your jump is always the same distance.
No you don’t.

Sonic was planned from the beginning, but added much later. The Engine was made to accommodate him well before he was added.

>>my main has been nerfed therefore the whole game is shit
Suck my dick, I wouldn't main him in Ultimate if I didn't enjoy playing him in Ultimate. You didn't address a single point.
>Her playstyle is the most unique that its ever been thanks to Phantom and all the set-up play
Nice single example, but it doesn't speak for the whole game

>Best event matches by far
>Persona BTT
>Interesting glitches such as the Masterhand glitch and Ness' yo-yo glitch
>Good music
>Intro is an actual intro not an alpharad video like we got since Brawl
The game is overrated by tourneyfags but it does have some qualities

>Sonic was planned from the beginning, but added much later. The Engine was made to accommodate him well before he was added.
See If Sonic was planned from the beginning he would have been in Subspace a lot more.

Wizzrobe (Falcon main) and Axe (Pikachu main) are both considered top 2-3 now and have the results to back it up. Some would even say that Wizzrobe is the best player in the world now.

Noooooooo it's always old = good. I mean, look at our parents and grandparents? That's why they like old things cause it's better. Melee is the best SB and that's a fact.

If they did that, then he would've been CGI'd in. Your logic is pants on head retarded from a marketing standpoint. Why the FUCK would Nintendo settle for less by putting Snake in over Sonic?

then you should be clamoring over 64

>Only 2 gens of Pokemon despite coming out during the GBA era
far preferable to all the fucking shit in ultimate with every fucking gen getting a rep and then some

>extremely limited role in Subspace and only appears at the final boss
>no variation in colors
>side B and down B were almost identical

Now that you mention it, he really does look like he was pretty shoehorned in at the last minute.

>No you don’t.
If there is a difference in distance I've never noticed it and it still doesn't feel right

Oh, that's neat. Will we see more people running those characters?

We probably will, people usually get inspired to play characters like those after they see stuff like that, and Axe won with a character a lot of people thought would be impossible to win with, so I'm hoping this will inspire more people to keep on pushing the meta for mid tiers and other undeveloped characters in Melee and the other Smash games.

>tfw Gen 3 will never get repped by Blaziken or Sceptile because they will be too busy shilling (((Sword and Shield)))

Why is it next to impossible to discuss Smash in non-tourney threads? Most of you are casuals who don't know jackshit of what you're talking about, so stop pretending you know. If anything I've seen more casual elitests than competitive ones, since casuals are always the ones chimping out about them "playing it wrong" or whatever the fuck, as if it somehow affects everyone's enjoyment.

>graph of intelligence vs confidence

inb4 we get another starter rep from gen 8 in the second DLC pack

They want to sell games, not please stinky melee-fags, just play melee and pm. Nintendo will never release a competitive smash ever again.

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There are plenty of Falcon players in the world. The problem is that they lack the motivation because of the stereotype that "Falcon is too predictable to win tournaments" was set by the very top level of play. I can only hope Axe has inspired Pika mains by the dozens after he finally ascended to the top. Hell, Jiggs was low/bottom tier before people found her out, and that was 7-8 years after release. Yoshi was found out a decade after release. I guarantee you this game has plenty of tricks up its sleeves that we have yet to discover.

Honestly, this goes for half the roster. Winning at the local level with Yoshi/Luigi/Pika/Samus or even low mids like Dorf/Doc/Link/DK/YLink is totally doable if you work hard enough. The "only four viable characters" meme is bullshit.

wizzrobe made it top 8 of a recent ultimate tournament. while also winning melee. im sure if he dedicated all his time to ultimate he'd be unbeatable.

to address you, have you played the game? its just fun. i had fun with brawl for a few months when it came out and would play with my friends, but at the end of the day melee is faster and has less filler items. its like a perfect balance

>More neutral is more fun, as it means more decision-making, especial for a game like Smash. You want ToD combos? Play DBFZ.
Doing combos in melee isn't autocombos like in dbfz though. There still is decision-making on both the offensive and defensive side of a combo.

This is stupid, but I'm honestly okay with the sacrifice of one of a million shitty GameStop Gamecube controllers. This is literally a better use for it than actually using it to play a game.

DBFZ isn’t autocombos you scrub moron. Autocombos are for beginners and have a max of 7 hits. ToD combos aren’t autocombos nor beginner-friendly.

Ffs, do you seriously ONLY play Melee or what?

There’s a difference in distance, feel free to measure it.

>without shoving a shitty story down the player's throat
>shitting on Subspace

>More neutral is more fun
Only if the neutral is good. Good neutral requires good movement options. Melee favors both rushdown and defense depending on your character and own playstyle. See Wizzy compared to S2J

Melee's neutral is also the most fun and deep neutral of all the Smash games though
It's the game with the most viable options

>the whole game
You mean the one with a roster of 82 characters, over 50 more than Melee has, with all of the newer characters having some of the most unique and original movesets and playstyles the franchise had ever seen?

I bet you use Falco and pretend his pillar combos are difficult

Subspace's story is garbage and the gameplay is awful because there's no momentum. It's got fucking Super Mario Land tier platforming.

for a sec i thought they were turning it into a vibrator

You think I know your virgin slang for your shitty games? You knew what I meant. There is no counterplay as long as the guy doing the combo doesn't fuck up.
You bet.

Ultimate has better neutral than Melee as it’s better balanced and favors a variety of more options.

>Melee's neutral is also the most fun and deep neutral of all the Smash games though
Subjective opinion
>It's the game with the most viable options
Citation Needed

You’re free to prefer Melee over later games, but stop throwing your opinion around as fact.

Subspace is cringe but not nearly as shitty as World of Light

Fuck off, Super Mario Land is fun. I'd rather play SML than Subspace any day.

He clearly means inescapable combos, smartass

Nah, execution is very similar across the roster. I guess it depends on what you emphasize, but that's a pretty subjective thing.
That's your opinion. Care to explain how Melee has fewer options in the neutral than Ultimate, because I don't believe that.

user, not everyone understood that in 2008. Both moves looked almost the same at first glance.

>getting consistent pillars against people who have a basic knowledge of how to DI

Do you only play in a vacuum? You need reads for those. Reads along with an approach game that better be top notch against players who laugh at your lasers with power shields. Falco is the biggest shitter magnet in the game to the point where the saying "All Falcos SD twice" isn't far from the truth.

Meta changed mostly, without going too deep into it the meta changes made spacies worse and other characters better. Spacies are still really good obviously.

To get too deep into it, there is a mechanic called Smash DI where you can influence your initial launch position after you get hit. People started getting amazingly good at this to the point where lots of combos thought to be true no longer are, and comboing in general is much harder now and has much more counterplay.

Now, the reason this benefits other characters more than spacies is because due to the unique fall speed/weight of Fox and Falco most of the combos they are vulnerable to either involve chaingrabs or techchases. Throws cant be SDIed, and SDI has nothing to do with techchasing.

So in layman's terms a mechanic was perfected that gives people better ways to escape combos, but the types of combos it allows you to escape arent the kinds of combos people would do on space animals.

No, I didn’t know what you meant. YOU’RE the one who said DBFZ was all autocombos, despite, evidently never playing it at all.

Fucking off you autist. With such narrow experience in fighting games, you’ve no room to talk about what makes a game good, or what makes good neutral. You only want Melee. You only play Melee. And you only want other games to play like Melee.

Cool, feel free to stick to your guns, but other games have evolved to include a variety of more options, and your refusal to acknowledge that because “it’s not Melee” doesn’t change that fact.

Not him but Melee's neutral being deeper isn't a subjective opinion, you have more options at all time due to all the movement and tech.
Melee also has less recovery frames on pretty much all of its animations than the newer games, and less inherent input lag, so player interactions are faster and require quicker thought.

Those things are not objective.
Look at Melee frame data sets, look at the amount of tech and movement options in the game, it's far more than any Smash game that came before or after, except maybe PM:

>I mean so far the only two games to even be remotely fair in balancing are 64 and Ultimate

Im going to interject as someone who plays both, not that guy but smash terminology is different than FGC terminology. In FGC terminology an autocombo is a one button combo put in by the devs for new players, smash players say "autocombo" as a derogatory term for simple combos that have little to no counterplay. You two are basically speaking a different language to each other.

>Nah, execution is very similar across the roster.
It’s not. And if you think this, you don’t play the game. The execution for characters like Snake or YL or Peach is significantly higher than that of say Lucina, Ike, or Cloud.

>I guess it depends on what you emphasize, but that's a pretty subjective thing.
It’s not, it’s objectively measurable. What’s the character’s game plan, how many options do they have, do they use set-ups or items? Etc...

>I do believe Melee has Brawl level shit balancing that people are simply ignoring.
most recent supermajor GFs was pikachu/falcon, fuck off
>Ultimate's superior in mechanics
damn i bit the bait

Shut the fuck up stinky stinky

People like it for speed and tech. Though, with wavelanding in ultimate, and less hitlag on everything, I think this is the meleekiller... Right, Yea Forums?

Why do people even try to imply Melee is balanced, only 10/25 characters have an even marginal chance of winning a supermajor. Its balanced only of you forget that the bottom half of the cast exists.

You sound like a bitch.
The one getting comboed doesn't care if it's auto or not, he still has to watch
>but he can drop the combo on purpose
In some situation yes and it's a cool mechanic but you can do this in melee too and have DI on top of it.

>over a third of the characters are capable of winning a supermajor
You know that's really good, right?

>What’s the character’s game plan, how many options do they have, do they use set-ups or items? Etc..
Care to explain how Melee has fewer options in the neutral than Ultimate, because I don't believe that.

>smash5 tourny viewership still cant reach melees numbers

Source: your ass

>only 10/25 characters have an even marginal chance of winning a supermajor.
as opposed to 10/70 in ultishart? yeah that's a much better chance

Fuck off, this is why I hate melee players, literally anything that isn't in Melee is a "gimmick" to you retards. If you had never seen them before you would call shine and peach float gimmicks. Kill yourself.

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Because Melee’s mechanics only enhance one playstyle, Rushdown. Zoners and Grapplers are literally unplayable. To the point where Meleefags call the ICs “grapplers” cause of Wobbling. Meanwhile there’s a much broader diversity in playstyles in Ultimate, as well as individual and character specific tech, AND variety in choice between the archetypal playstyles.

In Melee you have to reach for a Zoner, and Samus, who’s meant to play defensively has tp be aggressive in order to be viable.

Once again, port Ultimate Zelda to Melee 1:1 and she’ll suck just as bad as Melee Zelda cause the mechanics favor aggressive play. Where the name of the game is having fast aerials or getting bodied. Meanwhile, you have Inkling in Ultimate who plays like a Melee character, but despite that, still gives other archetypesa fighting chance due to the CORE GAME being better balanced.

Try 75/82
Retard.

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>Try 75/82
WEW

>Because Melee’s mechanics only enhance one playstyle, Rushdown
Puff.

There has not even been 10 supermajors for ultimate yet you fucking bat nigger.

In Melee the same 10 characters have been the only ones in top 8 of nationals for the last 7 years. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Smash Ultimate has had more characters than melee's entire 25 character cast in top 8 in half a year.

You are pulling numbers straight from your ass while providing no actual data. Stop while you're ahead, just leave this thread and go back to going 0-2 to wobblers at your ratty locals.

Ultimate sucks ass and if you like it you have shit taste.

Broader variety of character choices, playstyles, and unique gimmicks, leading to exponentially more choices due to match up variety.

If your playstyle revolves around one move, that's a gimmick in my book. Nothing more than that. If you're just spamming or fishing for your best option instead of having a nuanced gameplan, then I find that gimmicky. I'm not pretending Melee doesn't have gimmicks, so stop whining

Chads aren't afraid to work for a victory and face common enemy. Filter be damned.

>See Wizzy compared to S2J
i find it hilariously ironic how these two can play the same character in one game and play absolutely nothing like each other, yet in nu smash, players can play totally different characters that all play the same. god melee is so fucking good.

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75 characters are viable
Vs
10 characters are viable

Ultimate is just gimmicks and counters.

If you lose to people like that youre a scrub, simple as that. Theres no character that can be played like that in Ultimate to any degree of success.

Problem aint the game, its you.

it had soul, and the gameplay was more satisfying

>There has not even been 10 supermajors for ultimate yet
Literally lmao'ing at your dead game.

“Camps” with her fast Bair.

I said “name of the game is having fast aerials or get bodied.” Puff has fast aerials. Ultimate has characters that can do well without fast aerials. That alone opens a variety of more viable playstyles and options.

>Broader variety of character choices
Such as?
>playstyles
Examples? I'd say the top tiers in Melee have a lot more different viable playstyles
>unique gimmicks
both games have gimmicks

>“name of the game is having fast aerials or get bodied.
peach

>Meanwhile there’s a much broader diversity in playstyles in Ultimate
A top tier from melee has more depth than 20 characters from Ultimate.

That's funny because Hbox's play is exactly what you just described and yet he's the best Melee player.

Hbox's entire playstyle revolves around abusing BAir and rest, he does almost nothing else. If he's the best Melee player then that proves Melee is actually a game where "gimmicks" are very effective.

I don't even need to argue with you when you just prove my points for me.

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I think by gimmicks he means stuff like Mac's KO meter, Joker's persona, Pokemon Trainer's bobsled team, Rosalina's luma, Robin's weapon durability, Ryu/Ken's autocancel combo system, Cloud's limit breaker, Olimar's pikmin, Lucario's Aura....you get the idea. All Melee really has is Ice Climbers and ZeldaShiek.

Key word "remotely"

>Hbox's entire playstyle revolves around abusing BAir and rest, he does almost nothing else.

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>If you lose to people like that youre a scrub, simple as that. Theres no character that can be played like that in Ultimate to any degree of success
t. has never been 0-to-death combo'd by Peach or Luigi in his life

That's almost half the roster. Most fighters would kill for that.

>HBox is the best melee player

Nigga where you been?

You literally know absolutely nothing about Melee if you think this.

I say this as someone who loves Melee, its one of the most defensive games ever made. Being non interactive and using safe options waiting for an opponent to mess up is far better than trying to go in and mix them up.

Watch literally any melee set and you'll see the entire neutral is bait and punish. Retards like you just think its rushdown because its really fast and has big combos. Maybe you should slow down the gameplay to 1/4th speed so your puny brain can comprehend whats actually happening, and see the players arent actually trying to engage up close.

As a side I think that's my problem with all smash games after melee. They try to add complexity by relying on gimmicks instead of using a solid foundation. I have the same problem with the stage designs and items from later games.

>That's funny because Hbox's play is exactly what you just described and yet he's the best Melee player
Yes, exactly. That's why people are saying Hbox is killing Melee. He's playing the most one-dimensional character in the lamest possible way in a game of exciting top tiers. I already told you that Melee has gimmicks, too.

I enjoy both games, so I don't know why you're trying to "win" this argument.

>loses like 2 tournaments after winning almost everything for years
>apparently isnt the best anymore

Retard.

>Such as?
Take a look at the roster yourself Smartass. Or better yet, the character variety at tournaments.
>Examples? I'd say the top tiers in Melee have a lot more different viable playstyles
And once again, multiply that by however many characters see tourney play at majors and minors in Ultimate, as well as the numerous different strategies players employ. And this game is barely a year old. Give it as much time as Melee and its meta will be just as rich. Especially considering it took about 2-3 years at least before Wavedashing ever saw tourney play in Melee.
>both games have gimmicks
And which game has MORE unique gimmicks? Feel free to point me to anyone in Melee that plays like Sonic, or MegaMan, or PacMan, or Ken, or Pokemon Trainer, or Villager, or DQ Hero.

And hell, you want high execution? Not a single character in Melee even comes close to the execution necessary to play Ryu and Ken well.

Problem aint the game, its you. If you cant beat a peach or luigi player who just abuses one move you suck ass.

>A top tier from melee has more depth than 20 characters from Ultimate.
Ken says hello.

Reminder that the current Melee Top 8 is:
1. Axe (Pikachu)
2. Wizzrobe (Captain Falcon)
3. Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
4. Leffen (Fox)
5. Mango (Falco)
6. Plup (Sheik)
7. Zain (Marth)
8. aMSa (Yoshi)

Youre anonymous, I dont know or care what you enjoy, Im just here to take big poops on Melee stinkies.

I also enjoy both games, I just hate melee stream monsters who think they know everything with a passion.

Peach is a top tier character and Luigi had to be nerfed. Why don't you go win EVO, champ? Sounds like you've got it all sorted out.

>only has a winning match up against like 3 of the top 10.

You don’t play fighting games. Shut up retard. Most fighting game see over 80% of the roster being viable.

No, not “most played” VIABLE. Melee has character that are unplayable dead weight competitively, that AWFUL game design for a fighting game, and not the norm.

NO MELEE IS ALL FOX ALL THE TIME FUCKING DELETE THIS UHHHHH KERMIT WAS RIGHT UHHHH BASED SALEM UHHH NOOOOOOOOO

Based retard.

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>Give it as much time as Melee and its meta will be just as rich
Never gets old

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>the same 8 characters we always see at the top

Oh wow.... how exciting....

>only addresses content, does not talk about gameplay at all
do you actually play the games or are you just a brainless rosterfag only caring about what meme character comes next?

Learn to put things in context. It was just a sequel to the highly popular, low-budget N64 one. It was a BIG upgrade in many aspects.

Seems like just last week that Melee was dying because no one could defeat HBox jiggly

>top 8 players is the top 8 players

>a brainless rosterfag only caring about what meme character comes next?
this is literally 90% of the nu smash fanbase on Yea Forums, they don't give a fuck about mechanics or long term stability, they just want to squeal at character reveals then not touch the game 2 weeks after the character releases

Says the moron who only plays Melee. 1v1 me in Accent Core Plus nigger. I’ll make you cry.

You’re right, give it a quarter as long as Melee has had. Zoomers forget what the early Melee meta was like- oh wait, you weren’t around for it.

Good Peach and Luigi players dont rely on one move you fucking neanderthal. Get it through your thick skull holding your impotent brain.

Good
Players
Do
Not
Rely
On
One
Move

You got it? Good.

>And once again, multiply that by however many characters see tourney play at majors and
Give some examples faggot

Dude if we give Ultimate as much time as Melee it’s just going to be dead.

Is axe still the pikachu king?

I suck at every smash game so gameplay is not as big of an issue, but in melee the attacks feel a lot less powerful too

>Goober gear
I take the based part back, you're just a retard

>Im just here to take big poops on Melee stinkies
Keep the misinformation to yourself in that case

This is the top 8 of one tournament you fucking dumbass, this isnt the top 8 players.

Yes
They
Do

Fucking this. It's no secret that Fox is the most used character in the game, but there is so much variation in how you can play him. Leffen, SFAT, and Armada all play the character in a different flavor. Let's look at Falco. Mang0's Falco is very up close and explosive. He's adept at netting KO's stupid early and ends up having some of the quickest sets at his level of play. PPMD on the other hand played a lot more conservatively as he employed a more laser heavy gameplan to control the pace of the match. Meanwhile, with Marth, we have STILL haven't come close to seeing a Marth as efficient as Mew2King since he stopped playing. Zain isn't quite there yet.

>Give it as much time as Melee and its meta will be just as rich.
oh gosh oh golly gosh

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That's a sound/visual feedback problem, that's not really related to gameplay

t. doesn't understand fighting games

Yet Hbox has a negative set record against 4 out of the rest of the Top 8, with Plup and Axe being the only ones who haven’t taken sets from him in 2019.

>Accent Core Plus

How's it feel getting replaced by an objectively worse sequel that also fell for the 3D meme?

So was that all a fucking lie then?

>shits on the best fighting gane ever made
I expect nothing less from Melee streambabies. This is why no one takes you clowns seriously.

You're an idiot.

That shit about aerials is a whole other point separate from characters only being rushdown.
So to keep going on about that point, watch some Westballz and pay careful attention to how often he gets his hits from purely offensive movements, like chasing a dash-dance or pressuring a shield.
youtu.be/q5ylEIq5FQQ
It's pretty uncommon. He mostly counters peoples approaches with lasers or Dair or Bair. Or whiff punishes their approaches. Or shield punishes with shine OOS. He has his take on Falco that turns him into a defensive character.

Also, I don't see how characters needing a fast aerial is a problem.
Yeah, they're pretty good and can do a lot because the game is fast.
A character without a shield would also be bad, or a character without kill moves. It would be cool to see more variety there, but it can go wrong. I've heard fighting Little Mac in Ultimate is fucking awful because his pressure is insane, but his approach is terrible. So you're forced to camp him which is extremely unfun for both players. (Also, Marth's aerials are quite slow compared to the rest of the top tiers)

>best fighting game
Come on now my little retard, grow some actual taste and stop playing shitty anime fighters.

Feels pretty good cause AC+ still sees locals where I live, and Rev2 is plenty fun.

Don’t really understand this complaint despite seeing it quite often. The sound design in Melee does a pretty good job at making hits feel strong i’d say. I think people have just gotten used to the time freeze zoom in effect in Ultimate.

why is smash the only game series that retards on Yea Forums will defend the casualization of? go look at like wow threads or something, most people on Yea Forums hate it now because it's casual as hell now. the situation is the same with smash yet people still lap it up. is this just some specialized, mutated strain of "it's ok when nintendo does it?"

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Imagine being this kind of faggot.

>Melee streambaby thinks he has any room to be elitist
Go shower.

Casual elitists who got upset people play the game differently to them.

G&W is basically a character without a shield.

the key difference is smash is supposed to be a party game while wow is made for ultra competitive nerds

>anime fighter telling anyone to shower.

~contrarianism~

wow was a casual mmo when it came out

sacrifice a real gamecube controller for her you cunt

People who think Ultimate is more casual than Melee don’t play Ultimate and only watch Melee.

>supposed to be a party game
people on this board take mario party extremely fucking seriously, why is smash, the game that actually has competitive potential, an exception?

sorry my gf wrote that post

I don’t hate Melee. It’s in my top 3 favorite games of all time. I hate the faggots that circlejerk over it 24/7 and know nothing of fighting games.

anybody willing to fuck up a perfectly fine gamecube controller isn’t marriage material

This.
It's certainly more nuanced than Sm4sh. And there is a disgusting number of MUs you have to learn.

>>You need to play as Fox or Falco to have a fighting chance
falco is the worst high tier
yes i said it
you wouldn't understand the pains of playing falco lombardi unless you are a falco main, and if you are then you already agree with me anyway
t. falco main

Because technical complexity was never the main selling point of the game, as stated by the creator himself

Just cause your boyfriend wears skirts and tucks his penis between his legs doesn’t make him a girl, faggot.

>as stated by the creator himself
who gives a single fuck about what sakurai thinks, or any creator for that matter. if everyone played games exactly how the creators intended them, we would never have so many great things in video games. why is neo Yea Forums anti creativity?

>most fighting games see over 80% of the roster being viable

Stopped reading right there. I bet you're also one of those Third Strike memers that insist parries make everyone viable. You have to actually see play first to be considered viable.

How do I know this? I played netbattle and shoddybattle at high ladder, a FAR more competitive environment while you were still learning that DP motion in your unranked GG lobbies. Bite my elitist ass, subhuman. You're right, I don't play fighting games. I play competitive shit in general.

For the record, Blazblue kicks the ever living shit out of GuiltyGoober. Eat shit, nigger.

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Hop in stinky, it’s been weeks!

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You're so close and yet so far anime fag

boys are better girls than girls

>Stopped reading right there.
Stopped reading right there. Tl;dr

Take a shower.

after you, my unwashed friend

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Get AIDS.

Falco is stupidly easy to gimp, gets most of his combos fucked by semi-decent SDI, has pretty bad ground movement and is also the character everyone has the most matchup experience against. He’s still cool though.

>go to local to play local for Marvel 3
>pass the anime fighter section
>experience the most nose piercing pungent smell in my life
>vomited a slight amount and had to play it off to my friend that I just coughed really bad

I will never forget that horrible smell. Animefags are the worst.

What, you want me to throw a cheeseburger in there or what? Take a shower fatty.

>living in America
That was your first mistake, retard. The japs actually shower.

>cannot adapt to newer games because they suck major ass
Agreed, we can adapt be cause new games do suck ass

Learning a lot about you anime fag. How disgusting do you have to be that you have to use a shower for eating. How much filth do you produce just consuming food?

>Meleefag telling anyone to shower

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change your diaper.

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I feel like it's a common thing of Americans not bathing. Never experienced any particularly bad hygiene at any fighting game tournament in Australia outside one during the middle of summer and the air conditioning had broken in the building.

That's actually really good compared to most fighters

>Only 2 gens of Pokemon despite coming out during the GBA era
You mean you wanted a gen 3 Pokemon? I don't know who they could've picked. Deoxys? Mewtwo was a necessity, but Pichu was eh.

I’m not the one refusing to shower.

Yes you are.

It is an American thing, which is ironic, cause the Melee community is mostly American, west coast based more specifically. Japan has long since moved onto the newer games, and it’s Ultimate that dominates the scene here.

>west coast based more specifically.
socal is the biggest region but modern melee grew out of east coast tradition, specifically MDVA

>stop playing shitty anime fighters
I will never fucking get this complaint how does a fighter being anime make it not a good game?

To my knowledge japan still has a pretty active melee scene but that's kinda true for a lot of popular older fighting games.

Play it competitively all you want user, all power to you. But the person who create it simply doesn't care about that aspect and at the end of the day, he's the one making sequels. Just play PM if you disagree with him and move on, because it's fair to say that most people wont care about how complex the gameplay is.

Whatever you say stinky.

Anime fighter is a genre of fighter. Not that it has anime in it.

I know that but I still dont see how that makes them bad

Please for rest of us who attends tournaments, please shower anime fag.

There are always niche scenes for everything. But Melee is more popular in the USA than here. Everyone plays Ultimate here though.

Because Melee streambabies don’t play fighting games, so they just parrot r/kappa retards.

I’m not sure. I’ve just always known Oakland and SoCal are the biggest scenes.

People play P+ now, not PM.

gen 3 wasn't even out yet, he further exposed that bait by suggesting that they delay the game and wait for gen 3 to put pokemon in

>Meleetard telling anyone to shower
I showered after I 69ed your mom last night, what about you? Faggot.

Most people dont play the games at all they just use it to validate themselves over shit characters

>an ultimate player shat himself

The fact Ultimate gets zero shit for this bothers me the most. YGO players get an official rule update to shower, MTG had someone publicly shun players who didn't pull up their pants, Melee gets memed on for Tr4sh stinking up the place, Pokemon gets nuked boy baasedgape/KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOO, and Neptunia dropped its spaghetti at FUCKING GAMESTOP. But no, Ultimate gets off scott free because it's not melee despite this grandstanding and being a wretched hive of literal autism.

At this point I'm mad that all criticism of Ultimate is met by "take a shower smelee", regardless of if the person even likes melee or not. Imagine hating smash in general so fucking much only to be met by a horde of every skittles flavor on the spectrum spouting the same fucking shower meme.

It makes me want a PASBR 2 with good gameplay just for the sole purpose of spitting these people. I hate smash in general that fucking much now.

She's dead, no wonder you smell like a rotting corpse anime fag.

Funny thing we're rejecting PAL for NTSC in Europe now. Good times.

>8 characters
NOT ENOUGH
>16 characters
NOT ENOUGH
>32 characters
NOT ENOUGH
>64 character
It never ends does it?

>Ultimate mechanics
Lol what, give me some webm.

It's brilliant on both a casual and high level. Though it does lack a bit in singleplayer content.

Good post.

>Melee is better than X
"Oh my god melee is so toxic"

What does character representation have to do with being a better game?

Bair is a gimmick.

What are you even on about.

Play more before you make delusional statements jeez.

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Take a shower sMelee, no one cares.

based

>Etika is trans

Huh, so 40% of all trans don't shower. Guess you learn something new everyday.

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autism
>>>/reddit/

>as stated by the creator himself
So if I create a dildo and said its purpose was to promote oral hygiene, would you buy it and jam it down your throat?

SAVAGE CARLOS

anyone know what the next major is?

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Baby zoomer can’t handle good games that’s don’t need to fatten the roster

Smashcon is looking to be the next big one. CEO has a lot of top players as well though.

There's always something every two weeks.

Nigga use smash gg you fucking retard
ceo is next weekend then LTC is next month

Cute Samus is cute

Seething.

Based

wizzrobe dropped melee for 5 months straight to practice ultimate every day with top players like leo and salem and he still only barely got intoba single top 8

Ultimatefag here
>No 3rd party characters
it was gonna, the game can live without em anyway
>Character models look like shit
it was pretty much the first time most of the characters had full meshes, they did a good job for what it was.
>You need to play as Fox or Falco to have a fighting chance
Jigglypuff and Sheik
>No final smashes
doesnt detract anything
>No story mode
it does have an adventure mode
>Only 2 gens of Pokemon despite coming out during the GBA era
Gen 3 didnt exist moron