Can games be art?

There are books that are intrinsically art, there are books that are gutter trash for retards. Having a medium appeal to the biggest retards on this planet is not a signal that it cannot be art. There are video games that are art, because they're made with a message. Books have YA fiction, Films have transformers, music has pop, and games have AAA, all of these are equally devoid of any artistic merit but that does not mean the medium becomes not art because an amount of the medium is made for absolute morons.

ok this is epic

Anyone who has actually played ori and the blind forest or rain world and isn't completely braindead knows the answer is yes.

I thought this guy was all for the games = art shit.

books are FUCKING BORING

> Main appeal: Entertaining ideas, enjoyable characters, enables you to take on intriguing and unusual thought patterns
> Target audience: Anyone with a fundamental desire for entertainment
> Cause of aging out: N/A
> Cause of not aging out: Versatility of medium allows near-infinite possibilities for content.
Fit that into every medium except brightly-colored wooden blocks and we're good to go.

Post mermaids

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friendly reminder that only bad things can happen to video games if they ever become a "respected" art form or even just considered art at all

Video games will never be art if the only thing you value is the story itself. All art tells a story, what defines each medium is how that story is told.

I dunno. But I do know that love can bloom on the battlefield.

What story does still-life art tell?

I don't agree that everything has to be narrative. A lot of art, music, and poetry is just about getting to a really evocative image or sensation, without necessarily sketching out a full narrative.

ive aged out of movies and got more into games/literature in my 30s. watching movies is the most passive and least mentally stimulating form of entertainment of the three.

can we get a clear definition of "art"?

same. no idea why film is considered the highest fucking form of art these days.

The main problem is, for storytelling, books are the "fundamental" format. Mainly because language is the main tool we use to get our world across to others. It's difficult for films to be more than a recitation of a script. They certainly can be, but they're relatively rare and usually what Yea Forums calls "kino." This is harder still for music, which at first order is words set to a melody; what can you do with music that you can't do with a book? You have to get pretty avant garde to find the answer there.
The big two problems with video games are that, on the one hand, there's a person driving the UI, and second, that person generally can't be allowed to be too active a participant in the game, because otherwise the video game development will have scope blow-out (i.e., trying to implement too many branching paths). This is similar to Choose Your Own Adventure books, which already aren't that great, but they have to rein it in by having most branches end quickly, and relatively few branches that actually diverge the story. There's also a reason CYOA has never made it past the level of YA trash: an author should be someone who has something important to say, but if they have to say everything (because of all the branching), then they never actually get to say anything at all.
So what we mostly see with video games are: 1. movies where you play little games on the side (e.g., RPGs), 2. toys (e.g., most FPS), 3. "experiences" (e.g., survival horror), and 4. the occasional game that plays around with the idea of interactivity (e.g., BioShock, Braid, The Stanley Parable). Much like film should answer the question "why isn't this a book?" games should answer, "why isn't this a film, book, or toy?" And my suspicion is that BioShock is about the only game that has a coherent response.

Personally, I've starting to have trouble with narrative formats in general. Writers are rarely people who have done real things or have legitimate, informed insight into the situations they're describing.
Even non-fiction is so frequently narrative driven I find myself having to doubt all the conclusion and summaries.

Mechanics, on the other hand are pure logic. Their trappings are arbitrary, but once you accept them and start manipulating outcomes you've tapped into something completely real. Realer than any narrative format, and significantly less dry than a math textbook.

Have you tried watching something that’s not Marvel

If you can only appreciate art because it is concidered art and only consume what people tell you is good, then you failed.

Shakespeare was considered commoner trash back in the day but changed when elizabeth started admitting to liking it. Now, shakespeare is considered the master of liturate and the English word.

Makes ya think what would have been if elizabeth never admitted to liking his plays, ya know?

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Great post. If a screenplay can be read like a Shakespeare play, it probably isn’t making the most out of its medium. Generally, I think all artforms should strive to use the medium’s intrinsic properties to their maximum capacity

>games should answer, "why isn't this a film, book, or toy?" And my suspicion is that BioShock is about the only game that has a coherent response.

I would hazard that "because it has important elements of all three" is a perfectly good answer.

>if i put bad words in it's bad
>if i put good words in it's good, okay?
gaslighting isnt an argument

Absolutely, and they already are art, by definition they are art. But that's not the problem, and that doesn't mean that every game is an artistic statement, or even one worthy of discussion. The real problem is that because games can be art, there's a subset of people that believe that games must be art, they have a pre conceived artistic statement, and almost always they either do this in a heavy handed way that fails to leverage the unique nature of the medium and it fails to be anything truly meaningful, or their game is poorly formed as an artistic expression, but because gaming journalism is an abattoir of retarded children it's pushed as some kind of second coming of games as art.

yes. A combination of film, storytelling, and music wrapped in a computer science shell is art no doubt.

I've actually begun to enjoy film a lot less ever since I took some shitty intro to film class as a filler elective in uni.
The professor was a twit who just preached about how movies should promote his views more (anarchy) and he showed us some of the "great" movies and with the exception of a Clint Eastwood spaghetti western they all sucked. Now when I watch most movies I just get bored and wish I was playing a game instead. Fuck movies.
Books and music are fine.

Games literally have scripts, cutscenes and sound tracks though

stupid image is stupid