What makes this game be full of soul and the best Persona game?

Persona 5 is way better. Soul is the most meme tier word and P3 doesn’t have it.

Mitsuru.

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I love Mitsuru so fuck off and stop making Persona 3 thread

Yikes. Fuck OFF p5babby.

P5's gameplay is superior for sure. But characters and story? No

Im glad theres a lot of persona 3 posting, I am so sick of basedboys who only played 5 and say its the best game.

God if only persona 2 had the modern combat(boost or 1 more turn)I could get through it in a flash but it’s a slow pace I really enjoy the characters

People that played P5 first are getting around to playing the others.

How do we get personababies off this board? Yea Forums is an smt board.

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>What makes this game be full of soul
it isn't.
>and the best Persona game?
no, that's p2.

Cringe. Fuck OFF P2faggot.

>no PQ2
>no P2
Come on, user. Flesh this shit out. great taste so far though

Not until SMT 5 comes ou- OOOOOOPPPPS

I played every Persona game and most mainline SMT games, fuck off personababby.
Not at all. Half of P3’s cast is shit and the other half does nothing the entire game save for a few tiny parts in the last month. You’re deluding yourself nostalgiafag.
You’re not “cool” and you don’t have persona oldfag cred for liking P3 and making threads about it. Make persona 1 threads or SMT If threads of you want to feel special.

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/smtg/ is dead and so are SMTfags. Deal with it.

BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY

Seething personatrannies

I'm only here for Mitsuru. If anyone is actually going to post Mitsuru then I suggest you post it now, otherwise you're just wasting my time

I WILL- BREEEEED FUUUUUUU-KAAAAAAAAAA

>N-no u
As expected from a onions consuming tranny. You say p3's cast is worse than p5, yet you spew """opinions""" and use buzzwords instead of actually criticizing the actual game. The absolute STATE of p5babbys

Based Atlusfag BTFOing Persona elitists.

Imagine being a smug contrarian nigger about Persona of all things. P5 is just as good as P3/P4 but these milquetoast retards will argue against that until their dying breath.

What the fuck does persona have to do with trannies?

Gameplay: 5 > 4 > 2 > 1 > 3
Story: 3 > 4 > 2 > 5 > 1
Characters: 4 = 3 > 5 > 2 > 1
Dungeons: 5 > 4 = 2 > 1 > 3
Music: 4 = 5 > 2 > 3 > 1
Final boss: 1 = 3 > 5 > 4 > 2
Waifus: 5 = 4 > 3 > 2 > 1
Overall: 4 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 1

3 had god awful social links and the social part of the game in general were a lot weaker than 4 and 5. Also the AI combat orders were annoying and the getting tired mechanic was aids. Good thing the story was so fucking good though.

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>467801856
This meme of a post is not even worth a (you)
If someone is going to be contrarian it helps to go to the oldest thing that’s vastly different from the most recent entry. I can understand P1fags and P2fags but these zoomers who latch onto P3 for muh edginess and act like it’s not just a downgraded version of P4 which is a downgraded version of P5 are deluding themselves.

Make your own thread p4faggot

KIMI WA NE TASHIKANI ANO TOKI WATASHI NO SOBA NI ITA

I literally just discussed Persona in general and commented on 3 you fucking retard.

@467802283
YIKES. I knew p5fags were retarded, but this is sad.

Not all P3 social links are bad, they're just very fucking hit and miss. eg. Akinari is amazing and then on the other end of the spectrum you get shit stains like Nozomi

>The social links in P3 are bad
The only bad ones are Moon and Devil. C'mon now.

I love Fuuka!

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I'm about to play 2 so I only have 3-5
Gameplay : 5 > 4 > 3
Story : 3 > 5 > 4
Characters : 4 >= 3 > 5
Dungeons : 5 > 4 > 3
Music : 4 > 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5
Final Boss : 3 > 5 > 4
Waifus : 3=4=5, don't make me waifu war
Overall : I like them all equally

Kill yourself retard.

Why does literally everyone parrot the opinion of P3 having the best story when the only major dose of plot is in the final 2 months of the game?

>Kimi Wa Ne over DREAMLESS DORM

Certainly not the tedious dungeon, the unplayable characters, the loldeep story, the edgy presentation, the music, or lack of interesting social links

that retard only has buzzwords in his head

Because the pay off is fucking good? It's literally just like JoJo part 3.
>The first half establishes the goal
>It's slow paced long and boring
>Second half is the better half
>Characters grow so you have a bond with them
>The ending is the best part.

P3 has the best ending so I think that makes a lot of people remember the game fondly. It's easy to filter out the mediocre pacing and just reminisce on how fucking amazing the final act is.

it isn't 4 and 2 have more soul

5 is the worst though, completely soulless trash

Most people have only played 3,4, and 5 so you can probably figure out the rest yourself.

If for some reason P3 actually got its unnecessary remake, what do you think it would need to make it even better than before?

For me it's 5 > 4 > 3 > 2IS > 2EP > 1

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Remove the Answer. Add the QoL changes from P3P, while keeping the stuff from P3FES.

I love the music so much. Fuck, all the Persona games have good music. FUCK all the SMT games have good music.

>Remove the Answer.
For what purpose? You could just not play it. It's already canon, it's not like you'll retcon it out of existence by excluding it from a remaster.

Also adding onto this list of good ideas: keep FeMC. Yes, they would need to make a model for her running around town and shit. Yes, it's worth it.

Whats your opinion on Strange Journey's music? I feel like its sorta just lacking and yet it still fits the situation really fucking perfectly so I'm really on the fence about it.

>Keep FeMc

But she's like, the worst protag. Doesn't fit the game at all

>ranking 2's story behind any of the other games
>ranking 2's characters behind any of the other games
>ranking nyarly dead last among final bosses

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>It's not like you'll recon it
Oh user, you silly goose. Atlus would do anything for money by giving fan service. Just look at how they're trying to bring back Door-Kun

>But she's like, the worst protag.
But she's like, a total cash cow and fans fuckin adore her. It would be stupid not to include her in a remaster of P3, should it ever happen.

Never played it. Been in my backlog for about a year now.

it would need a total rewrite from scratch, along with actual dungeons instead of boring-ass tartarus. the amount of time, effort and resources needed to make p3 good would be better spent on making p6 instead.

Remove sick, tired is fine. Tired helps stress about managing time. The tired cure item from P3P could be kept but for the love of god only make it usable outside of Tartarus. Fatigue is important for balancing tartarus because every time you go to ground floor you get full MP/HP heal.

Basically this.
Not this, though.

it came first.

old good, new bad

>best story
Maybe if it had good pacing. A whole lotta nothing happens in the first 30 or 40 hours besides the intro.

>Tired's point is to detract from grinding
>people split group and grind up the MC solo anyways
Sasuga Atlus

NO

FUCKING MASCOT

CHARACTER

And it also my first persona game

But there are Aigis and Koromaru

C'mon those two aren't even as obnoxious as Teddy and Morgana

They're mascots done right

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Koromaru is (in my opinion anyhow) borderline pointless in P3. Which is a real shame because I like him as a character

Aigis will have a new sister soon can you believe it?

In the sense that Aigis is a Mary Sue and Koromaru literally doesn't talk?

4 is the quintessential Persona game. Everything fits perfectly in that game. 3 is decent as well I guess

>Aigis is a Mary Sue
C'mon not even that guy but this is just bull. She doesn't even have the characteristics associated with the trope

Because unlike 4 and 5, it's not completely episodic by nature. Each story segment clearly ties to the next and the character growth that appears shows up. In 4 and 5, each event is almost completely disjointed from one another. You can easily switch the order which the events happen and you'll lose almost nothing narrative-wise. Characters remain completely static after their own little arc and what little growth they've made during them is all they get. It's like "oh hey, today we're scheduled for futaba's development and now we'll never have to touch on it ever again". With 3, there's a gradual but constantly noticeable buildup to the climax.

>Because unlike 4 and 5, it's not completely episodic by nature. Each story segment clearly ties to the next
But Persona 4 and 5's story segments also ties to the next and to the overall storyline. Also this is just silly, please tell me how Fuuka being trapped in a gym by bullies relates to the Ken/Shinji stuff more than the P4/P5 stuff relates to its plot elements

get real, p3babby. 90% of the game is as boring as watching paint dry.
p2 isn't structured like 4 and 5 either, but it had so much of a story to tell that it had to be split into two games. there's no excuse for how p3 is a boredom simulator until the final hours.

Aigis is best girl. Also music appeals my tastes (not saying that the others are bad).

Junpei is basically the only character who gets gradual buildup leading to the climax of the game, making him one of the most well written characters in the franchise.

The rest of the characters have the same "here's your development arc, have fun never growing or changing ever again retard" as P4/P5.

>But Persona 4 and 5's story segments also ties to the next and to the overall storyline.
Of course they tie in to the overall story. That's why their part of the main plot. What I'm saying is that by using an entirely episodic format, there's no strict coherence between say Madarame's and Kaneshiro's arc. You can easily flip them around and no character progression is lost, aside from when the characters will join you. You end up with something like a Saturday morning TV show. There's definitely an overarcing plot, but a lot of the middle is written in a way where someone can just come and go and watch the episodes out of order, but still get what the general idea was and not miss how the characters grew.

unironically the worst part of the game

What's it like being a faggot?

P3's whole plot and characters are really well written, and that's why it's my favorite of the nu-persona titles. But talking about the best in the series I'd really consider playing p2!

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look inward for the answer you seek

>P3
>Best Persona game

t. weeb clown who's never played any game beyond 3

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>What I'm saying is that by using an entirely episodic format, there's no strict coherence between say Madarame's and Kaneshiro's arc.
But they don't use an entirely episodic format? At least not any more than P3 or P4 before it. Once again, I'd love to hear how P4 isn't episodic, or heck how P3 isn't also due to the way the game is structured. And I'd argue with P3 especially, they could easily mix up the order in which the team members joined with little changes.
>There's definitely an overarcing plot, but a lot of the middle is written in a way where someone can just come and go and watch the episodes out of order, but still get what the general idea was and not miss how the characters grew.
Gotta say I completely disagree with you since P5 scatters its plot over the whole game. Heck P3 of all games mostly fits what you're describing, since almost all of the relevant plot of P3 is packed into the last couple of months

Alright that's a good comeback, I wont lie

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P2IS is great, but EP is a letdown

EP is literally the best part of the entire franchise you cocksucking faggot

She casts Marin Karin on muh dick

Nah it kinda sucks, and they turned a great character into a boring mute

>Koromaru literally doesn't talk?
This unironically makes him better than two-thirds to three-quarters of all Persona characters ever.

but she is, she, Marie and soon Kasumi are all mary sues and it's not just them, so is Labrys, Makoto, P5, Minako Fepc and in a way Hikari.

>but she is
No she's not, neither are the others you listed

>Everyone I don't like is a Mary Sue

They are mary sues you dumb bitches

You have literally no clue what a Mary Sue is. There has only been one (1) Mary Sue character in the entire franchise, and he was in 1 and 2.

>But they don't use an entirely episodic format?
Maybe I should be more clear. I say 4 and 5 are episodic in that each arc is very self-contained. You can't pop in November's Yukari into August and expect the same party dynamic. In contrast, 4 and 5's characters remain static after their own little arcs. You can cut/paste December's Yusuke right into Futaba's arc and you'll see no actual difference in character interactions because all of Yusuke's development is strictly kept in his own arc. Yes, you can argue his social link gives him extra development, but we're arguing about the main story here and the development from social links in 4 and 5 never show up in the main story.
>P5 scatters its plot over the whole game.
And it's poorly done. At least in P3, there's a story reason why big events are separated once a month, but there's no reason for 4 and 5 to follow the format too. Why the fuck does the story need me to wait almost 25 fucking days for Futaba to wake up?
>almost all of the relevant plot of P3 is packed into the last couple of months
I didn't care for that either.

Nuh-uh

is and ep are both equally kino.

Does persona 3 have Yusuke?

Best written characters in the modern franchise
I still want a fucking remake with the Dancing Moon Night assets. Keep the gameplay largely the same, maybe add full party control, but keep the way your party unlocks their ultimate personas

EP seriously falls off a cliff compared to IS up until the very end.

>robot
>full of soul

Not him, but I don't remember any severe flaws or development in Marie or Aigis that wasn't plot related, ending in them fulfilling their destiny as being more important than their respective game's protagonist.

Also Yu is a Gary Stu.

Holy FUCK! You guys just dont understand! I would RAVAGE Yukari and EAT her like a 5 course meal! I would perform every single sex act and position on her! I would throw her into a bath full of chocolate pudding and clean her up using only my tounge!

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...

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>I say 4 and 5 are episodic in that each arc is very self-contained.
I really, REALLY disagree. Especially because the P4 "episodes" are all orchestrated by Adachi ultimately and each lead to the truth. Or the fact that Mementos is causing all the palaces in P5. Heck, once again I don't see how the arcs in P4 or P5 are any more self-contained than P3.
>You can cut/paste December's Yusuke right into Futaba's arc and you'll see no actual difference in character interactions because all of Yusuke's development is strictly kept in his own arc
See now it seems like you're moving goalposts because that wasn't what we were talking about. Plus I'd argue that Yusuke does change outside of the Madarame arc, heck he still agrees to help Joker in the end.
>And it's poorly done. At least in P3, there's a story reason why big events are separated once a month, but there's no reason for 4 and 5 to follow the format too.
P4 and P5 don't have one event per month. One thing just happens after the next. I don't see why that doesn't make sense either, both games even straight up explain it.
>Why the fuck does the story need me to wait almost 25 fucking days for Futaba to wake up?
Why does P3 need you to randomly wait around for Tartarus to get bigger? Heck, why does Fuuka go missing yet nobody says jack shit for over a week? I mean, I think P3 also has other minor issues (like the rules of Personas seeming ill defined) but frankly I think all three games have logical hiccups. Even more if you consider stuff like Trinity Soul

Based Yukari poster.

BASED

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Marie is a turbobitch who's treated as a butt monkey in her own fucking game with the intentionally shitty poetry. "Gods" in Persona aren't actually gods, she's more like a shadow like Teddie, and her existence only really serves to clear up some loose plot threads and give Kana Hanazawa a job at the height of her popularity. Aigis is a generic android "I want to be a real person" character that's been done in sci-fi to death. Neither are more important than their protagonists and neither are Mary Sues. And Yu is the player character so you're fucking retarded with him too.

Once again, Mary Sue does not mean "character I don't like"

Gameplay: 5>4>3
Writing: 4>3>>>>>>>>piece of shit on a stick>Overall: 4>3>>>>

She'd call you a creep and if you even try to touch her she'd get her super rich friend with connections to the police to throw your ass in jail

>P4 girl pic
>P4 ranked either best or second best in nearly every category
Really makes you think.

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>Marie is a turbobitch who's treated as a butt monkey in her own fucking game with the intentionally shitty poetry.
But that doesn't ever actually change, or at least I don't remember it changing. She just ends up being revealed as being so important that the rest of the cast isn't allowed to treat her like dirt.

The fact that she circumvents the only "flaw" she has (a shitty personality) by simply being the most important, powerful person in the main cast (rather than by actually changing or developing as a person) is pretty Mary Sue to me. At the very least, it's fucking garbage writing.

>Aigis is a generic android "I want to be a real person" character that's been done in sci-fi to death.
Again, though, that doesn't ever really change until the end when she realizes her "destiny" as being Makoto's guardian. At this point, her meaning is realized and her life is affirmed, and she finally understands what it means to be human and shit. I don't recall any really meaningful developments throughout the story that pointed towards her gradually learning what it's like to be a real person, but again, I could honestly be misremembering and I'm open to any examples of that happening and me being wrong.

>Neither are more important than their protagonists and neither are Mary Sues.
Aigis is undoubtedly more important than Makoto, per The Answer.

>And Yu is the player character so you're fucking retarded with him too.
And? Makoto/Ren aren't Gary Stus.

"Mary Sue/Gary Stu" just defines a character that has no flaws, or circumvents their flaws by being inexplicably very important or better than everyone else.

Nice

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>the player character can't be a gary st-

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>all orchestrated by Adachi
What? He didn't do jack shit besides encourage Namatame that one single time. He sure as hell didn't expect Namatame to keep doing his "saving" shit but kept watching because he thought it was hilarious.
>you're moving goalposts because that wasn't what we were talking about
That's exactly what I was talking about. I said at first that I thought 4 and 5 were episodic and disjointed, and character development is one of the easiest ways to show that.
>P4 and P5 don't have one event per month
We're talking about major main plot here, not side shenanigans. Sure, the occasional meet-ups and discussing what to do can be considered main story, but none of that really adds to the narrative. Once the objective of the day becomes conquering a Palace, everything grinds to a halt until you get to the deadline. I'm complaining because there's no story reason WHY the game needs to just stop like that. Going back to the Futaba thing, I can finish her Palace ASAP or on the very last day, and absolutely nothing changes. She'll just hibernate until the last day no matter what.
>Why does P3 need you to randomly wait around for Tartarus to get bigger? Heck, why does Fuuka go missing yet nobody says jack shit for over a week?
Tartarus progression seems to be tied to the amount of full moon shadows you beat. It's not stated explicitly, but you can make the connection. And nobody mentions Fuuka because she's apparently always been sickly and she's in a completely different class.

FUCK off, retard. I hate elitists so much, kill yourself

No, that's why it's better than p4/p5.

>And nobody mentions Fuuka because she's apparently always been sickly and she's in a completely different class.
I mean you can apply the same lazy psuedo explanation to Futaba. Sojiro even says she just lays around and sleeps for weeks at a time, which is the writers anticipating that the player might complete her dungeon way before the deadline.

It's impossible to properly write or pace a narrative with exists with Persona's calendar system. 3, 4, and 5 are all guilty of pacing issues.

criticism =/= elitism

I've seen your replies. You have a massive hate boner for P3, fuck off to your cave.

I would place at least the primary characters of 3 above most of 4's because they're more interrelated to the story past their introductions, Chidori's and Junpei's relationship and the evolution of Hermes as a result is more interesting than getting to s.rank 10 with Yosuke and beating him up or whatever.

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>But that doesn't ever actually change, or at least I don't remember it changing. She just ends up being revealed as being so important that the rest of the cast isn't allowed to treat her like dirt.
The cast doesn't treat her like dirt because they don't treat anyone like dirt. They banter and argue, but at the end of the day they're there for each other and for people who need it. That's just the kind of people they are. This is done because Marie's character development is realizing she, a complete loner, has a place in the world among friends and society. This doesn't mean Marie is super-duper important, it just means the IT are generally a cast of nice people.

>I don't recall any really meaningful developments throughout the story that pointed towards her gradually learning what it's like to be a real person
Casting aside her programming and saving SEES instead of being controlled by Ikutsuki. Experiences emotions, positive and negative, which is addressed by the others and this realization strengthens her resolve in the new year. Her choosing to live as her own person is the whole source of her persona evolving to Athena, going from shield to shieldbearer. And expanded on in FES, her social link emphasizes her learning what it means to truly live as a person instead of existing as a machine. By the end of the game, she does things because she chooses to as a sapient creature, not because she's programmed to, which is the important distinction. And then The Answer happens, which just finalizes all of that.

>Aigis is undoubtedly more important than Makoto, per The Answer.
Makoto is literally Jesus, per The Answer. Aigis is just following in his footsteps and carrying on his will, because she chooses to.

>And? Makoto/Ren aren't Gary Stus.
None of the player characters are defined characters in their main games because they're supposed to be self-inserts, only in spinoffs and anime.

>best persona
that would be 4. They are both very soulful though, due to all the elements coming together so well

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Based.

Again, 3 at least had a lore reason to be so stretched out, even if it causes pacing issues, but why do 4 and 5 keep to the format? Both of them would've worked so much better going rapidfire a la 1 and 2.

>What? He didn't do jack shit besides encourage Namatame that one single time.
He openly admits to stringing the IT along and giving them clues to continue the case. Plus, he's the one who pushed the first two victims inside the TV, AND he pushes the other kid in later. And it's also revealed that Izanami intentionally gave Adachi his Persona in order for him to do that.
Like seriously I can't disagree with you any more.
>He sure as hell didn't expect Namatame to keep doing his "saving" shit but kept watching because he thought it was hilarious
He explicitly mentions that he mentioned "hiding them in a safe place" to Namatame because he's think of the TV, and to push people inside.
>We're talking about major main plot here, not side shenanigans.
Yes, and in P4, the Izanami/Adachi plotline is the main plot of the game. In P5, Shido being prime minister is the main goal of Yaldy, and the other palace rulers have sprung up because of that. Heck, both plots serve the main goal of the plot in its entirety.
>Sure, the occasional meet-ups and discussing what to do can be considered main story
I consider it the main story when it directly informs what's going on in the main plot, so yeah.
>Once the objective of the day becomes conquering a Palace, everything grinds to a halt until you get to the deadline.
Usually that's because someone is directly threatening someone you know. And usually that person is your main character.
>Tartarus progression seems to be tied to the amount of full moon shadows you beat. It's not stated explicitly, but you can make the connection.
Yes, exactly, it's never explicitly stated in the game why we randomly stop and have to let the tower grow more. And you guessing at why isn't the game telling us.
>And nobody mentions Fuuka because she's apparently always been sickly and she's in a completely different class.
That sure is a good reason why nobody reported her missing over multiple weeks. I'm being sarcastic.

The game turns to garbage after she's introduced

Tacking this on at the end because of character limit.

>"Mary Sue/Gary Stu" just defines a character that has no flaws, or circumvents their flaws by being inexplicably very important or better than everyone else.
Wrong, and even that definition does not apply to any of the characters you've complained about.

>And? Makoto/Ren aren't Gary Stus.
door is the epitome of a gary stu. he's anime emo jesus with an edgy backstory and the special-snowflake universe arcana.
earring-kun, tatsuya and joker aren't gary stus. maya is on the bubble, you can argue that she's a mary sue because she denies her shadow and gets away with it. door-kun and yu are 100% gary stus.

>but why do 4 and 5 keep to the format?
Because in P4 and P5 the casts are discovering the plot and what's going on. In P3, the cast had a pretty good idea that Tartarus was the main problem, and in fact Mitsuru already knew that at the beginning. But with P4+P5, your main cast doesn't know who's behind all this and who to go after. That's kinda the point of P4 in particular, they're trying to catch the killer

Makoto isn't a Gary Stu. He isn't perfect and the world doesn't bend to his will.

Neither is any other character if that's your definition. Except maybe Igor but that's because he's based.

>That sure is a good reason why nobody reported her missing over multiple weeks.
Fuuka was never reported missing because her parents and her homeroom teacher "didn't want her record and the school reputation to be marked by something like this"
Yes, Fuuka's parents are so terrible that they won't file a missing person report because it might affect her record, they're that fucking neglectful.

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That's what I'm saying. No Protag is a Mary/Gary Stu. Igor is definitely BASED though.(Not in P5, however)

>maya is on the bubble, you can argue that she's a mary sue because she denies her shadow and gets away with it
You can deny your shadow in Jungian psychology, you just need the self-awareness and strong will to do so. The early games don't operate on P4 "no don't say it!" logic.

How do you go from this To Pic related?

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>This is done because Marie's character development is realizing she, a complete loner, has a place in the world among friends and society.
Again though, this doesn't happen because she finds a slam poetry convention or some shit, it happens because the game says "lol she's like a god or something, crazy right".

Fair points on Aigis though, happy to know that I merely misremembered her as being one dimensional.

>Makoto is literally Jesus, per The Answer. Aigis is just following in his footsteps and carrying on his will, because she chooses to.
But it's revealed that Makoto is just delaying the inevitable; Aigis is necessary for preserving humanity. At the very least, she's equal in importance to Makoto, who (as you say) is literally Jesus.

>None of the player characters are defined characters in their main games because they're supposed to be self-inserts, only in spinoffs and anime.
Makoto and Ren are both shown to have weak spots, though. It's not about personality, it's about them having weaknesses and not being flawless characters who can handle everything the bad guys throw at them. Yu does that just fine.

I was actually a little sad that they never actually show Fuuka's parents. Heck, unlike Yukari, we don't even get a good idea of what they're like. This right here is kinda they most the game ever says about them. I dunno, I was just wondering what her actual home life was like I suppose

>distinct ost, source of memes
>party is an organization, not close-knit friends; character development through resolving inner conflict, less "power of friendship" scenes
>deaths of more central characters; provokes drastic character development, plot escalation
>antagonists are a team of persona users, and are made known earlier in the story; sense of fighting an equal enemy

>door is the epitome of a gary stu. he's anime emo jesus with an edgy backstory and the special-snowflake universe arcana.
You raise valid points about his character design, but you're forgetting that Door-kun literally kills himself and, even then, isn't actually saving the world (merely delaying the inevitable). Despite being the most "powerful" MC in the Persona franchise, somehow he still gets cucked out of being the definitive badass who single handedly saves the entire world forever.

Fuuka s definitely the most neglected in the background department, she's the only one that doesn't have a door to her past in The Answer.
We also know Fuuka's parents are neglectful to her emotionally and only care about her grades. This is because all her family except her parents are doctors, and they are strict with Fuuka to the point that they would rather have her go missing for more than 10 days and not report it to the police than have everyone know how shit parents they are.

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First two points just seem to extrapolate on what I said.
>the Izanami/Adachi plotline is the main plot of the game. In P5, Shido being prime minister is the main goal of Yaldy, and the other palace rulers have sprung up because of that
I'm not arguing the plot. Remember my original complaint was that the episodic nature detracts from the overall coherence. Yes, of course they all eventually tie in to the endgoal, but it's a very "open" style where you can take the events out of order and lose nothing from the narrative. Character development suffered the most because of this.
>Usually that's because someone is directly threatening someone you know.
I think you're misunderstanding. I'm asking why after you take care of that someone, why we're forced to wait for some arbitrary deadline in-game. Let's say I finish Okumura's Palace the moment I can. Why does he live until the set date?
>That sure is a good reason why nobody reported her missing over multiple weeks.
Because nobody wanted to rock the boat, dingus. It's a shitty reason, but I recall her teacher saying it straight out.

>you're forgetting that Door-kun literally kills himself
correction: he gets turned into a door through the power of friendship.

>Again though, this doesn't happen because she finds a slam poetry convention or some shit, it happens because the game says "lol she's like a god or something, crazy right".
This literally does not matter in the slightest degree. Gods in Persona are nothing. She's another Teddie, that's all.

> Aigis is necessary for preserving humanity
False. The Answer only revolves around Aigis because she's a stupidly popular Rei clone, but also because it caps off her character growth becoming a real person. But she's not more important than anyone else for the game's message, which is that they all must go out and help humanity deal with their problems so they stop wishing for death. It's not a mission that Aigis undertakes alone, and they all vow to do so together. If Makoto is Jesus than SEES are the Apostles.

>Yu does that just fine.
Not really, he just has the luxury of being in a setting where his teammates are generally friendly, the main antagonist is a bumbling incompetent cop, and the final boss is just fucking around for a laugh. The entire setting is (probably intentionally to give a different experience from 3) designed from the ground up to be friendlier and less bleak than other Persona games. Yu doesn't have to worry about death cult psycho murderers or a nationwide government conspiracy trying to off him, that doesn't mean Yu himself is a flawless character.

>I'm not arguing the plot. Remember my original complaint was that the episodic nature detracts from the overall coherence. Yes, of course they all eventually tie in to the endgoal, but it's a very "open" style where you can take the events out of order and lose nothing from the narrative. Character development suffered the most because of this.
I don't agree whatsoever, and if you agree that they tie into the overall plot then how exactly are these episodic games? Any more so than P3, once again.
>I think you're misunderstanding. I'm asking why after you take care of that someone, why we're forced to wait for some arbitrary deadline in-game. Let's say I finish Okumura's Palace the moment I can. Why does he live until the set date?
I guess, to me, that's such a minor concern. Fuuka in P3 also has to take time off to recover from her ordeal and I never questioned it I just figure that most of the palace rulers need to reflect before going public.
>Because nobody wanted to rock the boat, dingus. It's a shitty reason, but I recall her teacher saying it straight out.
"It's a shitty reason but at least it was explained" yeah that's kinda my point, man

Makoto vs Nyx Avatar and Yu vs Adachi have songs, where is Ren vs Goro's song?

>What? He didn't do jack shit besides encourage Namatame that one single time.
...Did you... actually PLAY P4?

Goro was a delusional twit who pretended to be more important than he actually was, when he was really just being fucked with by two beings and thrown away the moment it became convenient. He's intentionally disappointing, because that's the point of his character. Shido, on the other hand, got the best fucking song in the game.

>This literally does not matter in the slightest degree.
In terms of convincingly developing her character in a non-Mary Sue way, it matters a lot. Your character isn't a non-Mary Sue just because she's got a shitty personality if she never actually fixes her shitty personality and just becomes a god instead.

If Marie isn't a Mary Sue, then what is she? Do we have another word for a character that is simultaneously underwritten, wish fulfillment, self insert, AND inexplicably important to their respective plot?

I'm willing to accept your other arguments, you're making good ones, but I can't settle on Marie being a remotely well written character, honestly.

Goro isn't the primary antagonist nor the final boss, so...

>Persona 4 Golden objectively does everything better than Persona 3, except maybe story, which many people think p4 has better pacing.
> Because of nostalgia, rampant Persona 4 hate and since Persona 3 has a more brooding atmosphere, people actually believe P3 is better overall.

Wasn't even the person who replied before but ok

>wish fulfillment, self insert
She's not. Hell, she isn't even that important to the plot because everything goes on the same without her, she just exists to conveniently tie up some strings that didn't even need to be tied up.

Shit..sorry, user

But he's Ren's foil just like Ryoji and Adachi were Makoto's and Yu's He even says after his fight is he wished he had met the group a few years earlier

>if you agree that they tie into the overall plot then how exactly are these episodic games?
Alright, let's make this more clear.
In P3:
A -> B -> C -> ... -> n
Story must progress in a certain order. Major events and character development enforce this.
In P4 and P5:
A -> B -> D -> F -> C -> ... -> n
A -> C -> F -> D -> B -> ... -> n
You can swap major events around and the overall experience barely changes, again, not unlike a Saturday morning TV show.
>I just figure that most of the palace rulers need to reflect before going public.
So going back to your own argument "you guessing at why isn't the game telling us". That doesn't work because the time spent can be either 25+ days or even as short as just 1. This is why I said 4 and 5 should've gone back to 1 and 2's pacing.
>that's kinda my point, man
A reason is a reason, and it was only shitty because her teacher was a scumbag.

>implying p4g's camp isn't full of nostalgiafags
It's a 7 year old game, m8. The vanilla game is 11 years old. Nostalgiafaggotry goes both ways.

Her character design is 100% self insert bait. Everything about her sticks out like a sore thumb; her visual design, her personality, even her fucking name. On top of that, her "faults" are perfect self insert faults because they're quirky (being tsundere and writing shitty poetry).

I view her as wish fulfillment because, despite being seemingly useless and incompetent, she ends up actually being quite impactful. You can downplay her impact on the story all you want, but the fact remains that she plays an important role despite being a bumbling dumbass for the entire game.

I mean, I definitely would have preferred if he had his own badass theme. I'm just saying your parallel is bad because you listed off final bosses, but he's a sub boss.

>tfw I unironically liked Marie the best
I still need to watch the P4G anime, I heard it's good i you like Marie

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>everything I don't like is self insert
Just admit you don't actually have an argument

Theres nostalgia for P4 too but P3 was most people’s first as most of us started the series through the psn version of the game. Which had p3 release first and is how most people play in, release order.

>You can swap major events around and the overall experience barely changes, again, not unlike a Saturday morning TV show.
Exactly like P3, yeah. Also this is just flat-out reducing the events of P4 and P5. I'd like to know how Nanako being kidnapped first would have "barely changed the experience" or how Goro betraying the party being moved around would barely affect stuff. In fact, it seems like a completely ridiculous thing to say.
>So going back to your own argument "you guessing at why isn't the game telling us"
But user the game directly does tell us, you just don't like the explanation.
>A reason is a reason, and it was only shitty because her teacher was a scumbag.
Oh so you can't dislike the post-palace stuff in P5 then, after all they do give a reason. And a reason is a reason, like you said.
>it was only shitty because her teacher was a scumbag.
It was also shitty because it assumes that Fuuka's parents really don't give any shit about her, yet the game doesn't ever elaborate about her parents

I respect you for liking and sticking to your trash.

Ryoji was minatos foil? Weren’t they friends pretty much until he went Nyx?

>But he's Ren's foil
Yes, and? Him being manipulated and thrown away is foreshadowing the same thing happening to Ren.

I like girls who are kinda bitchy and Marie just hit all the right notes. To be honest it was actually a tossup between Marie and Ai, though I just dated both of them in the end
My headcanon is that Yu dates these two women and wants to kill himself, but fears that they'll follow him to the afterlife

Well that's a weird fetish

Calm the fuck down; you're trying to be upset for no reason.
>In fact, it seems like a completely ridiculous thing to say.
If you re-read, you'll know I was talking about the middle parts. Who the fuck would slap in the climax right into the middle of the story?
>the game directly does tell us
No, the game did not directly say that. You straight up said you're just assuming that "reflecting" was why we had to wait. And that still doesn't explain Futaba's hibernation or Okumura's extra days of living with full mental coherence.
>after all they do give a reason
Say what it is then, don't just claim it was given.
>yet the game doesn't ever elaborate about her parents
It does somewhat in her social link. You'd think that'd be important enough to be part of her canon development, but can't have characters develop outside their own arcs because it's not their turn anymore.

What are you talking about? If a character that doesn't aesthetically or narratively fit in with the entire cast of the story they exist within, it's self insert garbage. Those are all signs of a character that was designed for people to look at and say "wow she's so unique just like me :)".

I mean, are you suggesting that Marie is a good character? Or are you just suggesting that she's bad, but not in the way I'm describing? I need to know your angle here, because I don't want to talk to a lobotomized Mariefag.

>Him being manipulated and thrown away is foreshadowing the same thing happening to Ren.
Shit, I never actually thought about this, and I thought I payed good attention to the thematic undertones of the story pretty well too. Guess I'm retarded.

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>Calm the fuck down; you're trying to be upset for no reason.
Dude I'm just countering your points, don't get upset just because I disagree with you. Kinda shitty.
>If you re-read, you'll know I was talking about the middle parts. Who the fuck would slap in the climax right into the middle of the story?
The same is true for P3 too though? They could have killed those shadows in any order. That's a ridiculous thing to say.
>No, the game did not directly say that.
It actually does. After Kamoshida's palace, it's confirmed by Kawakami that he's taking time off to reflect. After every palace ruler, they take time away from public to think. This is DIRECTLY brought up in the game. As for Futaba, the doctor says that she's exhausted and has passed out. And with Okumura, yes that's the only one where we don't get a direct explanation. Though since the other mental shutdown victims shut down at very convenient times for them (such as the principal having it happen right when he crosses the street) that they can trigger it.
>Say what it is then, don't just claim it was given.
If you actually paid attention after each palace, they bring this up in P5.
>It does somewhat in her social link. You'd think that'd be important enough to be part of her canon development, but can't have characters develop outside their own arcs because it's not their turn anymore.
I guess that might be the reason P4+P5 decided to do what they did with the character development and social links. I always got the impression that in base P3, they were struggling to give your female teammates their social links, just a bit. I wonder if it's because, like you said, they already HAVE their big character arc in the main game and now they have to do this... other thing.
Yukari has (in my opinion) the best social link on the team btw. I just found the relationship between her and her mother

>If a character that doesn't aesthetically or narratively fit in with the entire cast of the story they exist within, it's self insert garbage.
Source: your own ass. You seriously cannot imagine a single scenario where a character could be intentionally designed not to fit in? None at all? Absolutely none? Idiot.

>Or are you just suggesting that she's bad, but not in the way I'm describing?
Basically yeah, though it's less "I hate her with the passion of a thousand dying suns" and more "I'd rather ignore her when I'm not replaying her dungeon."

Did you notice how Shido is a pretty big parallel to Yaldy, including it being strongly hinted that other peoples' shadows are congregating to his palace instead of Mementos, hence why Rivers in the Desert is used for both him (Japan's figurative Holy Grail in real life) and Yaldy (the Holy Grail of Mementos)?

>Source: your own ass. You seriously cannot imagine a single scenario where a character could be intentionally designed not to fit in? None at all? Absolutely none? Idiot.
This. Especially because "a character designed not to fit in" kinda describes Adachi in P4. So is the villain a Mary Sue?

Based

>You seriously cannot imagine a single scenario where a character could be intentionally designed not to fit in? None at all? Absolutely none? Idiot.
I mean, the reasons for her design being the way that it is aren't mutually exclusive.

She's obviously meant to stick out given her inevitable reveal as being an actual god, but I always felt she was also designed to be distinctly dissimilar from the rest of the cast to broaden the game's appeal by tapping into the lowest common denominator.

I dunno what fucking retarded word to use for her I guess, I just hate her as a character.

>I dunno what fucking retarded word to use for her I guess, I just hate her as a character.
Then just say "I don't like Marie" and don't claim she's something that she's not. What are you, a moron?

It just means you don't like her. You don't need to search from some TVTropes article because you want to sound smart on the Internet. Just say you don't like her. That's all. It's okay to not like things.

Adachi fits in excellently though. His appearance is spot on, and his personality is actually quite similar to Yosuke's.

But you've spent all this time saying my definitions are wrong but you haven't defined anything yourself. I've just patiently given you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not trying to sound smart; I don't just dislike her, I think she's objectively written like dogshit. Nobody has convinced me that her writing and development isn't garbage, it's just been this autist screaming about how I'm using the wrong words.

Sorry bro, I mistook your sarcasm for being upset.
>They could have killed those shadows in any order.
I'm not talking about taking out the bosses, but the entire story segment. Why would I make the argument that swapping bosses around changes nothing?
>it's confirmed by Kawakami that he's taking time off to reflect
>the doctor says that she's exhausted and has passed out
No, I get that. Again, my point is why we're made to wait for an arbitrary deadline where it makes no difference when we clear the story segment of the month. Ideally, I'd want it so that if I cleared Kamoshida's Palace, the game'd wait while he reflects, which is right and proper, but for a set period of time like a week, and then the game progresses. Instead, we're strictly forced into a very systematic format, which actually runs completely counter-intuitive with the game's idea of rebelling against tyrannical order. Or even going back to P4, Nanako becomes deathly ill to the same degree regardless of whether she was in the TV world for just one day or almost a month. It may all be up to personal taste, but it's awful writing to me.

Then stop using the wrong words retard. "Mary Sue" is literally one of the biggest ways to say "I'm a completely fucking moron who has no clue what I'm talking about."

Like I said, I've been giving the benefit of the doubt to the other user just saying I'm wrong without actually explaining why, but I'm all out of good will now. Now I'd like someone to offer up the actual definition of "Mary Sue" and provide multiple sources to back up their claim.

I'm excited to see what happens when you guys realize that the meaning of that trope is not even close to being agreed-upon, and that its meaning has warped and shifted a lot over the past decade in particular.

Imagine being dominated by Yukari.

a coherent storyline

This game definitely has its flaws but it's still my favorite game of all time. Playing it rn. Sorry for the picture quality. My favorite social link by far.

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>Now I'd like someone to offer up the actual definition of "Mary Sue"
Self-insert fanfiction character used by the author as escapist wish fulfillment fantasy.

>and provide multiple sources to back up their claim
The actual short story that "Mary Sue" is from, as well as the multiple pieces of fanfiction that said story was written to lampoon.

>the meaning of that trope is not even close to being agreed-upon, and that its meaning has warped and shifted a lot over the past decade in particular.
A bunch of retards being retarded does not magically change things. If you're not going to use the correct definition then the term has no meaning whatsoever. Why? Because the term was coining specifically to lampoon lazy dumb fanfiction writing, when characters can have similarities intentionally for a legitimate purpose.

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It's the older and less popular than 4 and 5 therefore superior. 2 is even cooler to prefer.

>Self-insert fanfiction character used by the author as escapist wish fulfillment fantasy.
That's just the MCs, isn't it?

Not really, since the characters usually have to overcome obstacles and not everyone loves them right off.

>since the characters usually have to overcome obstacles and not everyone loves them right off
literally what obstacles, it's the MC dealing with everyone else's problems instead.

>literally what obstacles
Well you see, this may be a shock to you, but in every Persona game there's a plot as well as a villain that needs to be overcome

>combine the best of FES and P3P into one game
>bring over QoL changes from later games (such as party control and choosing skills to inherit during fusion)
>Flashy Aesthetics like P5 (see P3D for what I mean)
That's really all I need to be satisfied. Tartarus sucks but changing it removes an intrinsic part of the game.

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>killing God with the power of friendship and love
yeah okay boss

The setting already existed and MC-kun is just plopped into it and becomes friends with everyone relatively easily. Especially blatant in 4, they also gets everyone dangling off of every word they say and gains everyone's trust fairly quickly without much effort on their own part, and even build a harem. They all have a super unique power ability and is essentially a "chosen one". Does that not fit the bill of "Sue"?

Don't remove it, redesign it with unique floors like an actual dungeon.

>The actual short story that "Mary Sue" is from, as well as the multiple pieces of fanfiction that said story was written to lampoon.
That was literally 40 years ago. Language changes. Your definition of Mary Sue isn't even remotely tied to any modern uses of it.

>A bunch of retards being retarded does not magically change things.
>hurr language can't change because everyone is fucking dumb except for me

I regret wasting my time replying to your posts.

You could think of them as such, with the exception of being fanfiction or specifically for the author. This is why using the term correctly is important, because even stuff like this can be used intentionally by authors for legitimate reasons. The Persona MCs are self-inserts because they want to pander to the wish fulfillment otaku market comment on personal psychological subjects and induce an introspective mindset on the player. Self-insert characters can be used by the author intentionally for psychological examination; Dante's Divine Comedy is literally self-insert fanfiction dealing with Dante's own real-life personal and philosophical views, while Evangelion was written by Anno to deal with his own fucked up mental issues at the time, to use two well-known examples. And wish fulfillment has been a bigger part of pop fiction since forever than most people want to admit.

Then you have the writer of Persona 1 and 2 shoving himself in the game so he can perv over the model that the SMT IF FeMC is based on.

No desu 2?

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Fuck my ass the picture rotated

jesus-kun

No need to pretend. We already know you're an Aussie.

> No Nocturne
> No SJ
Are you even trying?

As someone who likes both Persona and SMT.
S-tier: SMT Nocturne, P3 FES
A-tier: P4, SJ, SMT IV
B-tier: SMT IV Apocalypse
Haven't played: everything else.
Personally I prefer P4 over P3 mostly due to music and atmosphere but P3 does characters so much better. It has a theme of "building relations with dislakeable people to have them grow on you". And party characters growth is tied to story. P4 is just Yuufagging all the fucking way.
But music and Inaba give me fuzzy feeling. Still objectively P3>P4.

She fell for the christmas cake meme

The problem, and the reason why you are objectively a colossal dipshit, is because the original definition was meant as an indicator of negative quality. By changing the definition, you then end up using it to describe characters that were never meant to be described and then claiming those characters are objectively bad based on this new made up definition that you magically pulled from your ass. Either use the proper definition or stop using it to claim a character is bad. You can't have it both ways.

overall good opinions, but jesus christ you have shit taste in music

There's so many things wrong with this list
>3 as worst gameplay even though the ai partners are fine when managed properly (and you can just use the party control mod if you care so much)
>2's story below 3's and especially the snoozefest that is 4's
>2 as second worst characters when that's objectively incorrect
>3 isn't the best OST when it has some of the most memorable tracks in all of persona
Based on the fact that you didn't talk about 1 or 2 anywhere outside of listing them it seems like you've only played the nu-Persona games and just stuck 1 and 2 somewhere randomly based on what you've heard online

Where'd you get those figures from user?

lol I still can't believe you get your persona because you touch a dudes hand at the gas station

devil survivor is the best persona
>choices matter
>making friends with certain people actually impacts the plot
>multiple endings aren't just bad ending, good ending, true ending
>people die if you fuck up and the game continues

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Your nostaliga googles. 4 and 5 are better. It has the best written character in the series, Junpei, but everyone else is pretty standard. Tartarus fucking sucks cock.

Innocent Sin went to shit as soon as Jun snaps out of being Joker and the shadow selves started running about. EP was consistently good from start to finish.

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Does no one know what Mary Sue/Gary Stu means anymore becuase it sure as hell wasn't the P3 cast when it means everything is always goes your way and you never fuck and everyone in P3 cast fucked up big time at some point or got fucked over.