Now that the dust has settled, what the fuck happened?

How do you feel about the 2.5D game? Apparently you can fight the final boss right away if you're good enough.

it looks fun and it's a lot easier to make a fun 2d platformer than a 3d collectathon

>It's what you guys wanted!
>You're not REAAAAAL fans!

I play Kazooie, Tooie, and even Nuts & Bolts at least once a year to 100% and there is nothing more on this earth that I want than to drag you cocksuckers who keep trying to push this shit as "what we wanted" and hang you from your fucking testicles.

It was everything bad from Tooie made worse. It's DK64 tier

I liked it. I don't understand the hate at all.

It had Nuts and Bolts' level design with Tooie's mechanics.

>play Kazooie, Tooie, and even Nuts & Bolts at least once a year to 100%

Why? Kazooie is a baby-tier game and Nuts and Bolts is total trash. Tooie is the only one with enough meat on it to justify replaying it frequently.

I don't see how this is anything like DK64 and Tooie. This game is wide stretches of nothing while those games had rooms connected by corridors. The only one really resembling that was the space one which is widely considered to be the best one.

>N64 collectathon throwback is now not even a 3D collectathon throwback
Probably not

>Bad Design for npcs
>Bosses are shit.
>world expansion feature is mediocre at best.
>Less worlds that tooie and kazooie.

I kinda glad they were not asking for more money for that new game they are making.
I hope they improve someday.

Sounds like rare
At least they got that part right.

If you don't think Tooie and DK64 have empty space, I think we have different definitions of empty

>Kazooie is a baby-tier game

Visually, sure. The bright visuals are designed to be kid-friendly.

Gameplay-wise it actually showed an anomalously large trust in the player's skill (it demands 81% completion of notes and 94% of jiggies, and for the notes in the original, you have to collect them all in a single life.

Having had several ex-girlfriends I've introduced to the game and watched eventually beat it, for a beginner, this is actually a herculean feat on a few levels:

>Bubblegloop swamp (Falls are incredibly punishing in about half of the level, and if you are in the water and you're a beginner, you're probably dead)

>Mad Monster Mansion (An endurance challenge. You WILL run out of honeycomb before you run out of notes unless you're playing well and already know where all the notes are)

>Click Clock Woods (Fall off the tree once and that's game)

>Rusty Bucket Bay (This gives me trouble too, the boiler room is incredibly punishing for 100 notes)

So most people who think it's baby-tier mostly don't remember what it's like being a beginner playing this game with no stage familiarity and little skill, because Banjo had no problem kicking players like that in the teeth.

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>it demands 81% completion of notes and 94% of jiggies, and for the notes in the original, you have to collect them all in a single life.

On paper that sounds demanding but BK is piss easy too. Especially if you know where everything is like you would if you did that.

Speedrunning BK I'd understand, but replaying it casually that often is just weird. Mario 64 and Tooie are better than Kazooie.

In DK 64 it was a chore to get everything, but proportionately you only needed about half of the collectibles to fight the final boss.

Like I said, for me and you, it's pretty easy now.

For a new player, something like 40% of those notes (more, but this underestimate captures the big highlight failure points of the runs) are behind a gitgud wall that is astonishingly high.

I usually collect all the jiggies when I replay Kazooie anyway, but I really think 94 was too high. The reason I can replay Mario 64 and DK 64 so much more is because you're able to skip so much of the content that a replay can feel like a different game entirely. Tooie needing 70 out of 90 was better I'd say

>expanding worlds is idiotic and should've been new worlds as a whole instead, even if they were just smaller side-worlds
>flight is broken
>tons of not-Jiggies you collect make you wonder "was that even the intended way to get it?"
>quills are placed at random instead of acting as breadcrumbs
>some worlds like the swamp look like as if the budget ran out
>trivial enemies

It copied all the good AND bad of 90's era collect-a-thons.

>Minecart sections were the only decent part of the game
I hope you are kidding, it was unresponsive laggy and janky piece of shit. The whole game was a breeze except these parts, especually the minecart boss on the casino, i had to try again like 10 times, fuck that

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>Shit character design
>SJW community manager
these killed it.

Unrealistic expectations. In reality, this game is a mediocre platformer at best. Parts that are good, parts that are boring, parts that are frustratingly bad. Honestly, my biggest issue with the game lies in the character design and lack of NPCs. Other than that I'd recommend it on sale.

>Tooie is the only one with enough meat on it to justify replaying it frequently.
I think Tooie is less interesting to replay because of how it handles its content. There's so much busywork and so many dull minigames. I replayed it for the first time in several years this week, and I had a good time, but if I had played it more recently I doubt I'd have been that into it. There are many things I like about it more than Kazooie, but I doubt I'll touch it again for another extended length of time, and it was a good reminder of why I don't play it nearly as often as I do Kazooie.

Tooie feels like a chore to play through. Kazooie you can hop right in and beat within a day, it's a breeze. Both games are good but Kazooie is the best.

Banjo tooie was exciting at the time because open world style games were just beginning to really take off. So having these enormous levels you could explore was really neat. However that game has aged like milk. Its simply not fun to spend so much time walking around looking for the next thing to do. It banjo kazooie and Mario Odyssey you instantly transition from challenge to challenge with little to no downtime. yooka laylee should have copied banjo kazooie instead of banjo tooie.

this is why it sucks that banjo 3 never happened Rareware could've easily found a great balance between 1 and 2 but never got the chance

Tooie was the perfect middle ground between too much/too big and too easy/too small for me.

For the 3D platformers on N64 I'd say it goes Tooie > SM64 > Conker > Kazooie > DK64

it took too much from tooie/DK64 and not enough from the original BK, which had something to do around every corner.

SM64 = Kazooie > Tooie > DK64 for me.
I've never actually played Conker.

I agree with this 100%. Tooie has a lot of features I really adore. The level size never seemed too big to me, and the ways the stages interconnect with eachother is gold. Plus I actually kinda like the FPS sections. But the amount needless errand running caused by the mumbo and split up pads is so difficult to excuse, and every new ability aside from the different eggs are really just keys to unlock doors in the end, and don't make the actual platforming any more interesting like the Kazooie powerups do. Plus, the lack of overworld jiggies sucks. It's overall a much grander experience with a lot more memorable moments/characters, but that comes with a lot more opportunities to drop the ball too. Kazooie is a tighter experience because it's a safer experience.

Not that user but I can agree with you. For some reason I never really liked DK64 that much but I can't pinpoint the exact cause since it's been something like 20 years now.

thoughts on the 2.5D sequel?

Conker is a very peculiar case in that, even tho it’s a 3D platformer at its core, it never sticks to a formula and introduces different mechanics and gameplay changes constantly. And yet, it is a pretty linear and straightforward game.

Definitely the odd one of the bunch.

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Have to agree somewhat. I gave the N64 original a run through earlier this year after not having played it in well over a decade, and it's definitely asking for some longer innings per life without the note retention that Tooie or the 360 port had. Also Clanker's Cavern being a thing for the third level and the fucking swimming control + camera doesn't make me think it would've been that friendly for kids.

Conker is more of a satire/parody and it also goes off the rails constantly to switch up genre. I don't really think it's in the same vein as the others. Rocket Robot on Wheels has more in common with Banjo

Cautious optimism. Restraint breeds creativity, and being restrained to a 2D and top-down 3D perspective respectively will hopefully cause Playtonic to make better use of the space they have and hopefully more thing of more interesting gameplay ideas to go with it.

What's wrong with it?

>tried to bank on nostalgia
>promised too many features
>mismanaged the hell out of their money
>had no focus on what made old collectathons great despite being the fucking old guard who made Banjo-Kazooie
>Unity engine
>didn’t listen to backer feedback
>got in some ridiculous controversy over Jontron having an opinion & taunted their prospective fanbase about it
That last one was especially damning to Playtonic I feel, because regardless on how you feel over certain world politics, you don’t ever insult your consumer-base & continuously taunt them over wanting refunds or being outraged over Jontron’s removal, you just end up looking like a bunch of cunts & everything you release will carry that stigma for the rest of time.
Yooka-Laylee is nowhere near how bad Mighty No. 9 fucked up, but made a helluva lot of mistakes that MN9 also made, I’m almost surprised it’s getting a 2.5D platformer sequel considering how much the game got either ripped apart or totally forgotten upon release. Considering the reputation & how Banjo’s in Smash now, I can’t see anyone much caring about the lizard & bat anymore, they’ll probably go the way of Bubsy or Gex in the next 4-5 years.

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the style of gameplay itself is really different in comparison to Kazooie. I'm replaying both of them and from the hub world, backtracking, puzzle challenges, size of the worlds. It's kinda hard to compare the two, but I'll stand by the opinion and simplistic more contained worlds are a better fit for collectathons platformers. Also the fact you can hop in any level in Kazooie and clear it all out, no backtracking required is just more fun.

The top-down 3D thing has a lot of charm to it. Rest of it looks like a Tropical Freeze knockoff (I realise the irony)

People always judge old ass games by modern standards. For it's time it was a solid ass game, I agree with you and still think it's a great game despite its age.

The Breath of the Wild Hyrule Castle style final level is an interesting idea. For those that don't know what I'm talking about, the "Impossible Lair" is basically a really long level that you can access at any time. But you can't take hits or fall into pits unless you clear other levels and save bees. Basically clearing each normal level grants you and extra hit or save from a pit. Or you can just git gud.

Probably won't even bother with it. I have been sick of 2-2.5d games for years. Hard pass

>Horrible NPC designs that were lazily reused for every world
>Worlds even bigger than Tooie's but with even less stuff in them
>Buggy as shit on launch
Honestly it feels like they took all the worst aspects of Tooie and then removed everything people actually liked about it. They don't understand what made the original games fun at all. Look at quills, for example. Notes in BK were designed to lead you around a level. Quills are hidden in awkward little nooks and crannies everywhere (to the point that they had to introduce a band aid fix in the quill detecting tonic). How do you misunderstand such a simple game design choice?

I don't think Yooka Laylee's brand is as tarnished as Mighty No 9. Plus Playtonic still have to keep making games to make money. So they'll probably keep making Yooka Laylee games in the foreseeable future. Unless all their future games are complete flops which I don't think they'd be. Banjo on the other hand doesn't have anyone that wants or really needs to touch the IP.

Conker isn't really a collect-a-thon, although money is collected as you further in doing all kind of things, mostly pretty varied to its credit without resorting to mini-games. There's a fork in the path if I remember right (Farm, Catfish Vault, Poo Mountain), but once he gets his $1000, it's pretty much a railroad.

pretty much everyone says its shit. probably based on high standards from pretty much the only other collectathon anyone has actually played (banjo) tho

Tbh if the game was good no one would’ve cared, the Jontron thing was a non-story
>Local internet man says racist things, voiceover removed from game to protect bottom line
If you want to work on other people’s projects, knowing when to shut the fuck up about stuff like politics is an important job skill.

It got a Sequel/Spin-off because ''no one liked it'' that looks like an actual Donkey Kong Country, unlike DKC Returns:
youtu.be/_FD0cfb84g0

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Nothing. People is always wrong as always.

Getting everything is the point of a collectathon, it shouldn't be a chore.

>looks like an actual Donkey Kong Country, unlike DKC Returns
I don't see how it looks more like DKC than DKCR.

The switching apes in a barrel mechanic artificially slows down the collecting though in a way that ruins the flow and quintuples the amount of backtracking you need to do.

It’s telling that user mods that let you switch apes on the fly make the game much, much shorter, but much more fun: the barrels appear to have been Rare’s attempt to artificially inflate playtime after they realized they needed to, rather than an explicit and intentional design decision.

How hard are we talking about? Like Hollow Knight’s “Path of Pain” difficult?

I don't mean to be the "I told you" guy but can I just say that YL failed to impress me since the very moment we got to see the designs for out protag duo?
Laylee is alright but Yooka looks so fucking bland and boring.
>DK has a tie and a notable color difference in skin and fur
>Banjo has the same along with shorts and a backpack where Kazooie is hiding in
>Conker has the sneakers and the jacket
>Yooka is just a green stick figure with a giant head
And thats not to mention how the designs in general have those shitty Nuts & Bolts eyes

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>that looks like an actual DKC unlike DKCR

nice bait user

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No idea. I haven't gotten to Hollow Knight yet so I don't have a point of reference. Also this game isn't out yet. Though they said it's 4 times as long as every other level, has elements from the entire game and has no checkpoints.

The DKC inspired sequel looks nice.

For me it's the awkward and uninteresting protagonist designs.

I love Retro's Donkey Kong games to death but I'm inclined to agree. I think it's because of how simple the game looks. Or maybe it's just because all the levels aren't collapsing behind you.

Also the bosses are terrible. Half of them are just a stone head that throws things at you.

It's nigger. We're on Yea Forums.
Nigger

>A ramp
>A wall
>A tentacle
>A kinect
>A rock
How do you go from Tooie's visually varied bosses to that?

The new game is a Donkey King Country clone by the people who made Donkey Kong Country you dumb fuck.