How do you feel about the Joker controversy in Smash Ultimate?

joker is def high tier, but fighting against him has never felt broken to me, certainly not as smash 4 bayo or diddy was
he's also not as easy to master

MKLeo was always a good player and he's the only one finding major success with Joker.
If either of these things weren't true, there'd be a problem but as it is it's fine.

>people didn't complain about nerfing Shiek or Diddy when Zero was dominating
Did you even play Smash 4? It was basically "Zero plays nerf hot potato"

Marss is. In one match, Leo was destroying him so hard, that when Marss finally got a stock, he deliberately SD'd his final stock and walked off (wanted to have the final say). Then he tweeted saying how unfun Joker was to play against.

Yeah, he's being carried for sure. Joker's ridiculously broken, here's hoping the patch that includes Hero will nerf him. At the same time, though, I wouldn't call this issue a "controversy," it makes it sound far worse than it really is.

It's not a Joker problem, Leo is just very good with him. Joker is very solid and has a great kit, but what good is he if you literally don't know how to use him? If Leo was really being carried, you would see more Jokers doing well in tournaments.

as much as i like tweek he's also known to cry on twitter when things don't go his way
he seems annoyed at having to fight better players than him

That just makes Marss a bitch

Huh? That's weird, I didn't post anything even remotely shitty haha

Joker doesn’t necessarily need a nerf, just an overall rebalancing. To clarify, he’s not OP imo he just has a few really good moves in his kit that makes it so most players follow a very specific play pattern. Very predictable and readable - they just need to pull those moves in a bit and strengthen some others to promote more varied gameplay

How many other high level Jokers are there? Leo was winning tournaments with Ike before picking up Wolf or Joker.

>Yeah, he's being carried for sure

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Fuck Yidker. He is a shitty looking rat, doesnt fit into the game at all. He's too good at not getting hit because he has fucking stupidbhurtboxes and moves around like a spaz with all his shit and everything he does. Furthermore, the optimal way to fight against him involves fucking stalling on the angel plat, stalling in gemeral and overall wasting your fucking time. Fighting joker is like swatting flies: its annoying, no one wants to do it and its a huge waste of time. Nerf him, if for nothing else that Im sick of seeing him and nerfs will put him away.

HOO HAH

>Marss
Reminder that this guy literally stopped playing mid-match to bitch to TOs about his opponent getting coached, then when he got killed, demanded a rematch.

is competitive ultimate good yet?

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they did. if you can win 50+ tournaments in a row with a character the character is probably broken.

This. When Leo was at the top using Ike people cried for nerfs too despite the character being mid low tier. Joker is good, but mkleo is carrying the character not the other way around.

Why is Joker even in the game at all? Persona is not iconic and it has nothing to do with Nintendo? Hot take, the music is complete shit too.

Marss is a pussy bitch. He can't even beat tweek playing basic bitch ass Roy.

MKLeo's Joker is so good, everyone thought GUN was useless since it has so much lag but he uses it properly, and his Eihans combos really well.

or the player is just better than everybody else. There were an absurd number of diddies/sheiks but he's the one that stood out, sort of like leo now

Ml was getting results with this character almost instantly. The character had results the week that it came out. Think about that.

honestly, this is more of a problem with the other pro players than with Leo or even Joker

these days everybody wants to be "the best X player", Samsora wants to be the best Peach, ESAM the best Pika, Elegant (as much as i like him) is still stubbornly maining Luigi after getting robbed time after time, MVD with Snake, and so on and on
sure, they may have 1 or 2 pocket secondaries but they rarely if ever change mains and that's important, they seem hell bent on creating these internet personas to bolster their streaming audiences and it's biting them in their ass
Leo can switch mains as if he switched underwear the second he feels he's at a disadvantage so he can WIN, isn't that what the competitive scene is about? are we really expecting these players to behave honorably with thousands of dollars on the line?
other players can get fucked and perhaps take a few notes on what Leo is doing if they want to be the best, but so far none of them seem to want that crown

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Are you implying Leo isn't the best player right now?

I like digimon

Leo is a spic

I remember all the Yea Forumsirgins saying gun looked weak and won't be used. Not surprising that Leo is the only successful Joker when he uses it to space and poke properly.

and you are a nobody nigger and forever will be ;)

Fuck Zero. There is no "controversy". It's just a handful of pro players who have had their asses handed to them by Leo using Joker. That's literally it. Anyone who is not a retard can see that Joker is not broken. He might be top tier but not broken. Stop crying "NERF" every time someone wins a major for chrissakes.

>controversy
What? Joker is good but this is nowhere even remotely close to a bayonetta or brawl MK situation

You realize the reason made that video is because pro players like Marss and Samsora are calling him broken, right?

>HE'S GONNA JUMP

Nobody needs a fat lardass to tell them an electric drill drills nails into a wall

Guy literally goes in circles trying to educate people nonsense.

It's not Joker. It's Leo who can dominate with any character he picks up. The kid's got some natural talent.

meter gains or arsene kill power needs nerf
mkleo is a greasy spic faglord

Spics are good at vidya

competitive smash is peak autism

the game isn't remotely balanced and even the devs know it. that's why the official tournaments always have items turned on

Gotta reach that 10 minute landmark my boi, gotta get them ads and milk his retarded fanbase who still praise him even though he is not good.

>joker is released
>meh he's okay but not great
>freak of nature and probably best competitor wins a tourney with joker
>WOW he is fucking broken

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Did zero call joker broken or something? That retard who was washed up and refuses to play competitively for fear he'll get exposed and instead goes for the easy twitch $$$?

Do people really still think he's an authority on Smash?

Its really only the bottom/top 15 that are significantly weaker/stronger than the others, this is definitely the most balanced smash to date.

balance doesn't have shit to do with how good a game is competitively, not that ultimate is a particularly good competitive game either way

I dislike Leo he only plays high tier characters especially ones considered to be the best. A lot of other people also main high tiers but atleast they really like the franchise the character is from. He seems to just pick the best character and only play them.

With the exception of luigi none of those characters are bad, and leo stuck to joker only several tourneys
People also conveniently forget that leo lost several tourneys while sticking to solo joker
Leo had the balls to commit to a character on tournament level to master it, i do not see many players doing something like that
Samsora swapping to palu after taking some L's for example, where is the commitment? How can they believe the character is the problem so fast?

Man, what the fuck happened to him

just nerf MKleo

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he unironically stopped taking showers. compare his hair in a recent video of his to that pic

I have never had fun playing against a Joker in online.

This.
Character loyalty is a crock of shit. These pro players base their entire twitch channels/emotes off their one character. As soon as a character has the advantage in their MU, they bitch and moan about nerfs.

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Why the fuck would he not why would any competitor gimp them selves by playing a shit character?

leo can win with almost any top 15 character if he wanted to, so no joker isn't carrying him.
On the other hand joker is pretty busted, if y'all ever played against an actual good joker you would know that most of the time you get taken off stage while joker has arsene that you're most likely not going to come back as he has multiple options with ending stocks at percentages up to 30-40 percent. Ive never felt this robbed in smash since peak bayo/cloud in smash 4.

>Favorite game is Fire Emblem
>Picked Ike at first
>Ike is mid tier now
>Is a huge fucking weeb
>Picks Joker
>Joker was thought to be mid to mid-high.
What did he mean by this?

Japan

>Ignoring how he played Ike until Jokers release last month

The madman still did easy top 8 too.

ike and joker were considered mid tiers by most pros, then leo comes and makes them look broken. you haven't been paying attention at all.

>one spic is good
>all spics pretend they are as good despite being failures at all aspects of life including the game
I guess whatever makes living in a third world shithole better?

t. Joker main
Prepare your asshole for the nerfs shortly. Enjoy your dlc power while you can.

spics are great in smash though. hbox and mango are two of the five melee gods. zero was the best smash 4 player and leo is the best ultimate player right now.

Touched a nerve did I? Why are spics so butthurt about being called out

>Nairo
>Abuses ZSS in s4
>She gets nerfed hard in ultimate
>Drops her and goes for palu who's top tier
>Loses so he starts looking to counterpicks
>In the end gets btfo by mars ZSS, his old main

Delicious karma.

oww, did you get gimped off stage by mean man arsene? boo-hoo nooo don't cry baby!! :((

Joker requires much more effort than most other characters to get really good with, he's easily a solid high tier for sure but not as busted as you people make him sound. If you want to refute me show me players besides Leo who are getting any real results with him.

And how many spics are there on earth? A billion? Hbox is a cuck btw, double eliminated by wizzrobes 10 inch wizzrod.

Seethe, Joker main. Persona is a shit franchise by the way. Music sucks too.

so what? my point still stands. deal with it whitey.

lol, that is not true at all though, everyone has a pocket joker because hes very easy to play, and gets you results.

>'HAHA i touched a nerve' retort
oh yes, you sure did kid ;)

I can fire that right back at you, there aren't really any players besides Leo using Joker at a high level to get results.

This.
Haven't you seen the last 20 tournaments being won by Joker???????
Smh tbqh senpaitachi, O.O

>that one butthurt shitskin in this thread
Lmao. What is it about Leos fans that makes them act this way? No other "fanbase" does this.

No. MKLeo is the best player in the world right now and he makes Joker seem imbalanced. Joker has a high skill-ceiling and reaps great rewards if played correctly, but he's not broken at all.

What surprises me the most is Samsora, a guy who plays the best character (Peach), who has insane frame-data, insane combos and great recovery complain about Joker.

hi Marss

>Joker has a high skill-ceiling
no, he doesn't. he has a similar but way better system as lucario that rewards bad gameplay and getting hit.

If VoiD picks up Joker there's no doubt he'll still have top results so Joker will be tied for having the most top player rep with Wario at 3 top players each (Leo, Tsu, VoiD and Tweek, Kameme, Glutonny respectively). Joker isn't that good though. I'd only nerf Arsene kill power at worst.

QUICK POST KINO JOKER VIDEOS

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>Bayonetta comes out
>Doesnt get immediate results except a few rare circumstances
"See Bayo isnt broken she just has a high skill ceiling very high effort character :v)"
>Few months later
>Bayo starts winning more and more
"WTF no we dokt nerf characters we dont ban characters its not as bad as meta knight, just SDI"
>Bayo mains stall during Evo grand finals
"How could this happen I said we should have banned bayo all along"

Joker is following this exact same pattern.

>implying I waste time going to "competitive tournaments"

>calls someone else a cuck
>obsesses over another man's dick

Bayo was broken day 1. She had zero to death kill confirms out the gate and they were found very quickly and were performed very consistenly in the tournament setting. The patch that removed those from the game were applied before she could bust them out at any majors though, but she was still seen as a major threat regardless.

arsene is not even a permanent buff. you can make it go away if you just keep beating the shit out of them. are you seriously this much of a retard?

Leos a cuck, you take one look at him and you just know.

I don't think MKLeo ever even gets to the point where Arsen comes out though.

Digimon devs clearly have integrity, they should make digimon games like the old 2d pokemon games, i'd play it.

win a major then

Historical revisionism doesn't chamge the facts. The facts are that Bayo wasnt winning tournaments during her first few months. Joker has won a major even faster than Bayo did. In that sense he's actually doing better than Bayo was despite supposedly taking "more skill".

No he does. You're forgetting because whenever he does get Arsene he just ends the fucking game instantly.

This would be a valid point if mkleo's joker isn't a beast without arsene. Seriously his base Joker play is better than in arsene mode.

Roy is stupid good in Ultimate, Tweek is also a great player in his own right.

He does, very consistently too.
And has many, many confirms with Arsene out.
>First hit nair to upsmash
>Down air to Upsmash/Up air
>Forward air to Eihan

Youre right user, but most of the people here wont realise that because they are casuals .

>this happened before so this will happen again

you have the critical thinking skills of a 12 year old. what a fucking retard you are. if joker is dominating 6 months from now then bitch all you want. don't come crying nerfs when just one guy who is arguably the best in the world atm just won one major. just shut the fuck up bitch.

Competetive Smash is for trannies and faggots. There's a disproportionate number of trannies in the Smash "community". This kid is probably either a tranny or a faggot as well. Also, take a fucking shower, US events arent being held in the 3rd world.

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Leo takes a lot of stocks without arsene
I wouldn't be impressed if the overall stock counter was bigger on normal joker

Everyone and their mom complained about Diddy and Sheik when ZeRo dominated with them, though.

Remember that huge Ike problem that was literally only a thing because of MKleo?

Joker's recovery is ass even with Arsene and players need to start abusing it.

Nah, Digimon are always shit

There are poorly designed aspects to Joker and he, much like many characters in the game, were not designed to make the game more enjoyable to play. Joker is a character designed around harassment. Fine. Whatever. However, the issue is that Arsene is tied to a counter which is fundamentally borked in risk/reward since it can be held and the benefit is quite the buff.

It's not enough to make Joker overcentralizing, but it was a poor design decision that I hope they rectify, though I know they will not.

Okay if you say so Leo, doesn't change the fact of what you are.

Dont get triggered by facts you little bitch. I haven't said anything except that Joker and the conversation around him is the same as that which happened with Bayonetta around her release. If that makes you mad then too bad.

He's still a spic lol

None of what I said is revisionism. Bayonetta had extreme zero to death combos that were easy to start, easy to perform, and were consistenly performed by early Bayonetta mains. Bayonetta got nerfed before she was able to pull them off at a major and so most people dropped her in expectation that she was not good anymore, but that was quickly found out to be completely false.
The only reason Joker won a major these days is because the literal undisputed best player in the world picked him up and labbed the shit out of him before anyone else learned the mu verses Joker. Literally no top player was playing Bayonetta at the beginning of the game.

Not him but by your logic Ike and wolf should've been nerfed.

All of the practice edgeguarding with Lucina makes his Joker a ridiculous threat in late percents. He really knows how to get out there and take stocks.

Whoever Leo uses everyone complains about the character, it doesn't matter who he plays, it's mostly just because he wins.
People cried about Ike for a few months because Leo was playing him

Wolf has been nerfed my guy

They should've indeed, especially Wolf.

>Joker's ridiculously broken
You are fucking retarded

There is no connection between that and what I said.

The reason he made a video is that it's grade A click bait. He'd probably admit it too.

Sakurai like Persona, that all.
He even said Ulrimate UI design was inspired by Persona UI.

It's another episode of "nerf character because MKleo won a tourney". It happened with Ike and Lucina.

IDK about any of that, but this guy has the most obnoxious fanbase in the world. A bunch of 16 year old slobs and they smell like putrid shit.

A majority of (good) players knew Ike was high tier. Most people were complaining about Leo popularizing a character who literally naired to victory. It's annoying to watch and annoying to play against.

LOL at all the butthurt Joker mains itt. Nerfs are definitely incoming

Lol salty no-jeans-owning-faggot is a literal child. Also imagine unironically trying to say ZSS is bad

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I hope that you're wrong. I don't want another Bayo situation, especiallysince we're not even a full year into Ultimate's metagame.

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>Elegant (as much as i like him) is still stubbornly maining Luigi
What the hells the problem with that? He likes the character and he does very well with him. He should just drop him and pick a high tier because competing is all about winning 24/7 right?

There shouldn't be a controversy to begin with. MKLeo is really good and has clearly taken the time to lab the characters he's excelled with.

>competing is all about winning 24/7 right?
Yes I dont get smash fags and their character loyalty

We'll avoid another Bayo situation if Joker gets considerably nerfed. Hopefully he doesn't, I want Joker and Joker mains to get shat on even more.

This

People MKLeo is a good player and if Joker carries as much as people say there would be more Joker players in general.

Ike isn't high tier and not a single pro thinks this. And they were whining because he was using the character well and winning, which obviously means he's broken and needs nerfs. Because whoever Leo does well with is too strong and needs nerfs

It's hilarious how every time a Smash character comes out and is clearly busted, people jump to their defense and talk about how they're 'clearly' midtier. Man get the fuck out of here with that shit. I'm so sick and tired of characters like Snake, Wolf, Pichu, and now Joker obviously being head and shoulders above the rest of the cast but everyone says "just wait and see senpai lol."

Yes. Though I only watched the anime when I was a young kid.
Are there any good digimon games? Preferably not from this gen.

No need ill let results speak for its self. I win a my locals though what about you ?

People play characters they like, it's really not something that's difficult to understand. And Elegant doesn't really complain about Luigi, he just does what he can to push his meta and do well with him. It would be a boring game to spectate anyway if every high level player used the same 2 or 3 characters.

>Ike isn't high tier and not a single pro thinks this
Show me five potential top 10 players who think this.

Where are all the white people in these fighter tournaments?
It's all latinos, blacks and filipinos.

You made the claim, how about you show me some videos or tier lists where pros have placed Ike in high tier.

Imagine complaining about Joker being top tier when there are characters who are as good or better than him. How people can complain about this in a post-Brawl MK or Smash 4 Diddy, Bayo, or Cloud world is beyond me.

Nintendo picked Joker and even pushed Sakurai to reveal him 5 months early.

He's kinda broken, if they nerf his arsene Gage he'll just be another shiek and unable to kill anything, I understand why he'd be difficult to balance

Not him but here is Dabuz's latest tier list. A few of them still believe he is very good, while others have said he's fallen off a bit

Attached: dabuz.png (1860x1139, 1.77M)

what's up with his lips?

People wanted to see Ike nerfed because Leo was winning with him. That's retarded no matter how you spin it.

Nairo, Dabuz, VoiD, Tweek, and mkleo all have Ike in high tier.

Lippo mode.

White people are too busy trying to be pro at fortnite

Joker is fun

I don't know who these autists are and I don't know why you give a shit. Play the game.

This list is accurate except id place joker at 1st.

Shitters will always shit up discussion. Sucks, but Sakurai is ignoring everyone so we're good.

will smahs:U be able to beat melee2016's view numbers at evo?

>Shulk that high
Holy shit Shulk bros finally made it?!

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it wont break beat S&S numbers

Nairo literally has never made a Ultimate tier list, how the fuck do you know what he thinks.

Olimar's placement is an automatic dissmiss of this tier list

Who the fuck is putting up good Shulk results for him to place him that high?

Dude, have you seen what 3.1 has done to him?

Why is jigglpyuff still bad despite getting tons of buffs in this game?

I think if Joker is nerfed, MKleo will just pick up another character and body everyone to the point that they want that character nerfed as well

>every olimar main
>"UHH N-N-NO HE'S NOT GOOD TRUST ME, HE SUCKS
>literally, fucking EVERYONE else
>yeah olimar is insane, disjointed projectile smashes, constant disjoints, kill throws, tiny hitboxes, incredible safe recovery

I'll believe the pro that has been playing olimar for over a decade over smelly user. Anyway, his nerfs really hurt him. Yeah I know, you don't see that in your low level quickplay, but it makes a huge difference. It's not like he placed him in bottom tier.

Nobody, but the potential is all there. It's just about learning how to use the Arts in the perfect moments.

youtube.com/watch?v=KW7Z0LgRoc0

Leo's Joker lost to Ken's Sonic in a grand finals set
youtube.com/watch?v=xDTopkIh62M

Slow
Light
Poor damage output
Shit range
Good aeriels but it doesn't matter when you have those other problems above.

He literally has his tier list on HIS OWN TIER LIST WEBSITE.
smashtierlist.com/nairo/

>if Joker carries as much as people say there would be more Joker players in general.
Especially in Japan.

>Is MkLeo being carried?
I'd say its the opposite, he carries Joker like he carried Ike. When he puts in the work with a character, he gets the results.

MKLeo is singlehandedly carrying jokers metagame progress
Theres a reason top 8s are full of snakes and olimars but not jokers, the same way Leo was almost always the only lucina/ike in top 8

Nope i ignored them since the nerfs so far have been very mild at best, what did they do nerf his get up attack? Or increased his hurtbox a little bit?

Yes yes I recall this, but If he placed him there based off ONE set at a tourney he is retarded lol.

Too busy creating the gibs that "pro fighting game players" need to survive.

He isnt fun at all. The optimal way to play against hhim involves running away and waiting. Its boring as fuck.

>hasn't placed Joker
Oh no no no no

Watch everyone call Sonic top tier now.

These people are far better at the game than garbage like you will ever be.

this thread and everyone who posts in it besides me is autistic as FUCK.

Dabuz says he's good literally all the time. But the nerfs hurt him and that isn't debatable.

Was this after 3.1?

Shulk has always been good, but he's by far the most difficult character to master. You have to learn to use monado speed and jump optimally, which feels like playing a completely different character.

This. I consider it more unfair to fight against Diddy “Hope you liked tripping” Kong or Zero Suit Samus than I do against Joker, and those former two are nowhere near top-tier in this game. Arsene hits like a ton of bricks, sure, but Joker still has his fair share of exploitable weaknesses, Leo’s just stupid good at this game, he’s pretty much got the system solved like the Melee kids & their game.

Why are all Smash pros so autistic when compared to FGC pros? Look at the OP guy
>some fat, ugly, shit colored manlet
And then you see chads like Daigo and think what the fuck is wrong with Smashers?

You can also go hyper aggressive on him without much issue. You only need to worry about counters but he's super predictable when it comes to using it, so just grab or smash when he does.

youtu.be/1HCErTzAn6Y?t=252

• Basic Movements - Olimar is now easier to hit.
• Side Smash Attack - Reduced the high-damage window.
- Increased vulnerability.
• Up Smash Attack - Increased vulnerability.
• Up Special - Adjusted the flight time when the move is used repeatedly.

That's not how Leo plays him at all lol

Amazing disjoints and buffs for every single situation he could be in.
However he's an extremely hard to play character when arguably some other disjoints are better and easier to play.

Reread the post

You can, but that would make you a retard. There is zero reason not camp arsene and its shitty

One of the best FGC players in the west is a disgusting 56%er nigger furry.
Least MKLeo is 100% spic.

Learn English you esl spic faggot. Then reread the post.

There has to be someone besides Salem at one tourney to make him place him there. Is Nicko doing well?

Buff Joker

>ZeRo
>fat, ugly Argentenian with a bad personality
>full-time job was Smash tournaments before he lost his mojo hard & swapped to internet streaming
>Daigo Umehara
>very average, but keeps himself in a healthy state of body, rarely talks mad shit
>currently sponsored as a top-player, maintaining his skills from youth, has also written books & worked as a male nurse in a hospital to make ends meet
Honestly, it feels like FGC members are more successful at life than Smash community members; the Melee community is a gaggle of sasquatch-looking internet personalities, while the folks in Street Fighter at least look presentable & try to keep day jobs, just saying.

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Shulk's tournament results are like 20 points behind Pikachu according to OrionStats.

Why are Smash 4/Ultimate "pros" such whiney fags?

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Nah he is just salty from Salem btfoing him :)

controversy?
abortion debate is a setting for controversy
legal age for various things not limited to smoking rights is a setting for controversy
video game balance bullshit is not a setting for controversy

>Tweek hates fun
>everything is srs business
Surprise surprise

yikes

No? Again, he's extremely difficult to learn and not fun to play. Good players don't want to commit several months to practicing him when they could be doing better with other characters while also having more fun.

Salem is one of the exceptions because he's good with weird, unusual characters. This goes back as far as Brawl when he started winning tournaments with Zero Suit Samus by throwing suit pieces with impeccable accuracy.

But he gets paid literally to entertain people, does he believes that the people watching amount to nothing?
Does he believe that a fancy sponsor would give him money to win in some obscure videogame no one watches?

Nice to see he's getting called on it. Its fine to not want to do an entrance, but he really didn't need to word it like that. Whatever. Kind of hoping he gets blown out again before top 32 even happens and disappears for a week again

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Reminder that Fatality is literally the only based smash player since hes the only one that actually blames himself for how well/bad he performs instead of blaming the game, character or other player.

Seriously literally every smash player i've seen immediatley takes to twitter when they lose to bitch.

>not fun to play
He's pretty fun. But in anycase, my whole point is if no one is putting up results he shouldn't be throwing him in top tier with fucking joker, snake, zss ,Lucina etc. It's obviously based on results, like any good tier list would be, so this one choice doesn't make any sense. "potential" shouldn't mean you get a top tier placing.

He's been in permabitch mode since he didn't get into summit.

It was fun to see him whine about that too. Twitter was a mistake

>concocting BS social media drama to sell your esports
soap opera for manchildren

>people didn't complain about nerfing Diddy

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He doesn't even compete anymore, who cares what he says.

nah it'd be more interesting if high level players switched mains from time to time, nobody is saying they should share all the same main asshat

>He's pretty fun
Maybe for shit players like you. Constantly changing between speed and jump is exhausting for most players, even if they're good.

>caring about what some shitty internet personality variety streamer says
ZeRo isn't a top player, who cares.

>Constantly changing between speed and jump is exhausting for most players, even if they're good.

I would argue then why they're playing Shulk in the first place but okay

imagine this guy giving you a blowjob

High level players do do that though, you fucking moron.

>I'm a shit player because I find Shulk fun
?????
I mean other people do too, Shulk isn't some underplayed character nobody at all uses, he is just difficult to use well and takes a lot of practice. That doesn't mean he is unfun. take the stick out of your ass you fucking nigger.

>nobody is saying they should share all the same main asshat
Except you know, you are, when you say you don't get why pros are character loyalists, as if they should only use the tippy top best characters instead of ones they are proficient with and enjoy playing. You're retarded

>being this assravaged
pathetic

Attached: 123809.jpg (572x734, 418K)

So you mean just like it is now?

>I dislike Leo he only plays high tier characters especially ones considered to be the best
Ike was, and still is, a thoroughly mediocre character that people were shout about being top-tier exclusively because Leo made him work. Leo puts in work, while other " top" players lose MUs that should be free (Cosmos' Inkling vs Bowser) and then use "I didn't know the MU" like that's a valid excuse after a half of year of playing the game literally nonstop.

I like Leo because he gets results and exposes other top players as being shitters who think they can coast along to top 8s knowing how to fight 9 or 10 top tiers and then get their clocks cleaned by lackluster mid-tiers and then go into full character crisis mode after finishing 5th in a 1000+ person tourney, or quit altogether when their skill doesn't transfer 1:1 from another Smash title (neutrino-sized Leff).

I don't think Joker is bayo levels of stupid but I do think he could use some toning down. Rebel's gauge charge rate is too generous and that's before rebel's guard itself and the passive charge. Arsene has no business lasting 30 seconds so drop that down to 20. That or leave him untouched but nerf his weight from 93 to 80 or whatever like ZSS

Attached: 1561257595609.png (3840x2160, 2.72M)

>MKLeo
Most boring player of the game. And overrated by his retard fans.

>I would argue then why they're playing Shulk in the first place but okay
They're not, that's the point

You're a shit player because you're obviously not even winning locals.
To play Shulk optimally, you have to play extremely defensive. In the Salem vs Dabuz match, the matches went down to the final 2 minutes every time. He's not a fun character to play or play against, unless you're a garbage player who isn't playing him optimally, which you are.

There are no characters that are "fun" to pay against.

That's because for some unfathomable reason, there was no TO around for that match. He had tried to signal for one before and during the match to get the audience to tone down the shouting but none was around. What was he suppose to do? The TO was not doing his job properly here.

>And overrated by his retard fans
Overrated? He's won like 70% of the tournaments he's entered you stupid idiot.
What fans? His stream isn't even that big. Whatever his fanbase is, it's outweighed by morons like yourself who don't know anything.

>muh pro play
shut up faggot

His name is literally MK Leo because he was extremely good with MetaKnight in smash 4, a character nowhere close to high tier or the best. He didn't use Bayonetta until way after she was already well established as the bar none best character and main by players like captainzack, salem, and even eventually tweek. He also used marth quite a bit, who while good was not the best character. Plenty of players used cloud, so you can't even argue it was just him alone.

And then in Ultimate he used fucking Ike at supermajors. Not that there is actually anything wrong with using the best characters, you're just salty he gets good results consistently.

fatality is based man, even when he was getting his ass wrecked by Leo at Genesis he seemed more amused at the whole ordeal and even trying to focus between sets and shaking hands like a true gent

You don't stop playing mid-game, idiot. The fact that you're defending him tells me you're one massive fanboy and probably a new england cuck.

Reduce arsene length. Slow down gauge charge via counter. Rebel guard has max active length of 1 second instead of the full retard crap it is now. Reduce non arsene Joker kill power on bair and up smash. Reduce range of downward aerial gun shots in all forms and make it last a max of 1 second. More recovery on side b in all forms.

Except it wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if the goddamn TO was around. Are you seriously not understanding why the TO not doing his job is a bad thing here?

again, who the fuck is talking about the "tippy top" best characters?, just saying they should get out of their fucking comfort zone and commit to another character from time to time
and no, ultimate high level players rarely do that

>even eventually tweek
Tweek was a nobody until Bayo came to town. He was a half-baked "low-tier hero" who did kinda okay with Bowser Jr. but never made top 8s and then went on dominating tournies after swapping to Bayo. He was memed about being carried by Bayo so hard he became the poster child of how a broken character can carry even a shit player to top 8 until Ultimate came out.

>You're a shit player because you're obviously not even winning locals.
And I bet you are. And it wouldn't matter anyway since locals are meaningless. You're literally buttblasted because someone thinks a character is fun and interesting to play.
>you have to play extremely defensive
You don't, you know little to nothing about Shulk and it's embarrassing. That was Salem being Salem, he was the same in smash 4 and the same way in brawl.

If you'd like to play though, we should get an arena up, I'm sure you can show me how amazing you are since you're so keen on talking shit because someone holds a differing opinion from yours.
In anycase you went off on a tangent like the baby you are, the original point being made is that he shouldn't be that high of a tier if there are no results to back it up.

Yes there are. Falcon, Fox, and similar chars are fun because they have potential for engaging edgeguarding and you get lots of chamces for extensions via tech chases. They are explosive and fun to fight.

Meanwhile Joker has stupid hurtboxes and has lots of ways to escape disadvantage for free. He just zones you out and runs away. He is boring as fuck.

>people unironically thinking Leo is getting carried at all

Attached: image.png (661x635, 704K)

>b-b-but muh locals
Fuck off faggot.People like you and others in this thread are shining examples of faggoty leo fans.

What is it about quitting mid game you're too stupid to see a problem with? If noise is a problem, you wait til the game is over, idiotic fanboy. Goddamn you suck his cock hard.

If other players are winning with Joker, obviously doesn't count if they use them as a second but don't win with him, then you have a problem. But when it's only him winning tournaments with Joker, then it's obviously MkLeo doing most of the work here.

I love it when trash players like yourself cry in desperation when you get correctly called out for not understanding how to play optimally.

youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

>and no, ultimate high level players rarely do that
You literally don't watch competitive ultimate if you actually think this. Top players use secondaries all the time. Theres already a bunch of S and A tier tourneys to show you that. Maybe watch them.
And in anycase, why should they not play a character they enjoy playing, even if it's not. You're all pissy about Elegant for example, even though he does fine with Luigi and doesn't bitch about him. Should they do this just for your personal entertainment? You're not making any sense, you're complaining to complain, and your shit isn't even valid since it's not true. Again, you're a fucking retard

Leo has always been extremely good at Smash. Leo isn't carried by Joker at all. However, I do think Joker is overdue for nerfs at this point, and while he definitely won't be nerfed into the ground like Olimar was, his more "bullshit" elements will be gone in the next patch.

Attached: 1548963477097.png (286x350, 9K)

Except he was trying to signal for one before and during the match. TO are there to maintain an environment for a fair match. When said environment becomes unfair and harmful to one of the players, the match should have stopped then and there, regardless of the stop playing midway part. But the TO was not fucking there to do so.

Tweek was one of the best Clouds in smash 4 and was placing well before he switched to mainly using Bayonetta, what the fuck are you talking about

People always complain about whichever character Leo ends up maining, so I'd say it's less the character and more that people need to step up their game against him.

yeah sure they use secondaries and mostly get rekt when they do, what's your point

Mistake and Captain Zack seem more like the poster boys for getting carried.

t. knows nothing about Shulk
Nice dodge by the way, you whiny crybaby

>How do you feel about the Joker controversy in Smash Ultimate?

I remember us talking about this day, the day smash players would cry for Joker nerfs.

Now that we are here AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

get fucked smashfags

there was no "controversy" until ZeRo made a video about it
some people complain about Joker, but same with Olimar and Peach and every other good character

god are you fucking dumb, top players are the ones bitching about joker

MKLeo's whole thing is picking up fundamentals based characters that are seen as good, but not insane top tiers and winning everything with them and making them look ridiculous. This causes all the stream monsters and kids to flock to his latest pick and copy all the bread and butters he abuses in tournament, which creates a stigma and hatred for said characters.

It happened with Lucina, it happened with Ike, it happened with Wolf, now its happening with Joker.

Leo is broken, not the character.

>okay well they use other characters b-but it doesn't count!
They don't get rekt though, you should probably keep up with competetive smash if you're going to try to discuss it champ.

Literally has nothing to do with the conversation but I'll bit. Besides mars, which top players are bitching about Joker?

MAINS not SECONDARIES you retarded incel, learn to read next time

>t. knows nothing about Shulk
Yes yes, keep telling that to everyone who calls you out for the rubbish player you are. Meanwhile you'll never ever win anything meaningful, just keep attempting to salvage your pride on Yea Forums playing a character that's obviously well above you're capabilities.

>everyone
It's literally just you, you're the only idiot who got mad because I said I enjoyed playing a character. You're the only whiny dodging baby here. Tell me all about your local with 15 players that you won though, that proves you're so good. Fuck off.

>but same with Olimar and Peach and every other good character
Who all got nerfed.
Olimar is now unusable, Void dropped Pichu for undecided, and Peach's nerfs directly cost Samsora twice in a tournament, once against Dabuz, another against Light.

Joker is jank incarnate. He isnt "fundamentals" at all

>top layers should drop their mains to play other mains because I say so lol I don't get character loyalist lololol
You. Are. Fucking. Retarded.

Lol, look at how sensitive you are. It's obvious I've struck the truth, and you're hurt by it.

Stick to a simpler character, kid. You are garbage with Shulk, and always will be. That's why you'll never win anything.

Mistake yes, Zack is decent and still does work with Bayo despite how underwhelming she is

It's not just that he's difficult to play-- his tools can and do literally work against him as well. So while Shulk has this pretty amazing tools, he's a clip character. To unlock his "full potential" he has to already be winning against someone else. Think about it. Quickswap requires storage which you have to at least be in neutral to obtain or in advantage. Arts like buster and smash are high risk-reward and he is linear despite his strengths. Difficult to just shit damage without already setting up. I think if anything he's slightly overrated at the moment-- just like Fox was upon launch. Fox is great... if he is already running over you. Otherwise he's light AF and loses to disjoints way more than he should. He's a vortex.

Joker w/o Arsene is pretty damn honest, it's when he comes out that he becomes stupid.

>keeps dodging and calling me shit
I'm not the one who won't play a match, I get you're scared though, it's cool. Have fun winning your 10 man locals and thinking you're hot shit dude.

yeah you lost, and again learn to read before replying next time

>counter is very predictable
No it isn't... because he can fucking hold it. Look at how often Leo gets to use it. Way, way more than other counters minus Bayo's old one.

Based retard, you don't know shit.

Switching between speed and anything without speed automatically makes him more difficult than just about every character. You don't know this because you're a low level player that doesn't understand spacing and neutral.

>says to a person a character is too hard therefore not worth using
>then tells that person they are shit for using the character that's difficult to use
I don't think you quite see how delusional you're being here my guy

Leo did and he's dominating :)

I live far away from you, kid. Sorry, it turns out not everyone in the world lives in america, but naturally you're too stupid to consider that notion.

Either way, you've embarrassed yourself enough already. Again, stick to an easier character, for your own good.

Grab him and pummel a few times. He loses like half of his Arsene time if you grab him while its out

>tfw Marss tries to be the Plup of Ultimate
>ultimately backfires
based Justin "never gonna win another major" Mcgrath

winning any local is a bigger achievement than anything you've ever done lmao

And if you don't have garbage internet it wouldn't matter. Keep coming up with dodge excuses though dude. I would destroy you with Shulk. You are literally dodging a challenge like a 12 year old

wait what did plup do?

I can read fine. What you are asking for makes absolutely no sense. You've only proved you literally don't keep up with competitive Ultimate at all. Fucking retard

Every Smash threads should require their GSPs posted.

Fuck your opinions and everything you say amounts to nothing unless you post your GSP.

The current problem is that people are avoiding Arsene instead of engaging him. Hitting him reduces the timer he is out but everyone is trying their best to run away and play defensively, which allows Arsene to remain out for so damn long. Once people stops being so afraid of Joker when Arsene is out, the meta will shift again.

>I would destroy you with Shulk
Haha sure sure, keep fueling your own delusions. Won't help you win your locals :)

>Ken in top tier
What the fuck happened? I thought the SF characters were garbage?

You've never won a local though

Yeah a Quickplay score sure is a measure of how good someone is, lol. GSP doesn't matter

>can armor through anything regardless of state to instantly charge arsene. can hold this for like 5 seconds
>Down air gun invalidates the recovery of half the cast
>one of the best keepaway games out there
Wow so fair :)

>scared kid continues to nervously dodge

>not having /ourboy/ Void
he's also gaining interest in Melee

Attached: voidsleep.png (348x310, 196K)

You probably main a superheavy or a zoner based on this dumb fucking post

Attached: Gogeta-and-Vegito-fan-art.jpg (1680x771, 152K)

This blatantly false. Only a biased joker main would say a character with rebels guard is """"honest""""

I would be afraid too if my opponent had a "I can now kill you at 60%" meter.

>people will suddenly start ranking Isabelle high tier just because Bocchi won against Ally

>Melee
What's the point in gaining interest in a dead game?

Why doesn't Wizzrobe have a sponsor yet? His form in melee is hot and he's clearly the best top melee player in Ultimate.

Attached: 11230127_832330396850657_4807973940147442751_n.jpg (865x865, 52K)

Its moreso the parallel that Plup hates playing against hbox/puff in melee

Kens buffs really helped him, he is a combo string beast now
Ryu still sucks ass though lol

this skinny thin haired balding faget should stop being a bitch

If he wants to keep it out forever like literally every single one of them do then you just grab and start a follow-up that leads to him dying at 80%

You realize Melee tournaments have higher viewership than Ultimate's? Dumbass.

having appreciation for history

>thinking having the properties of monado are what make him technical and not the actual storage tricks
>thinks that his success is gated by this technicality and not the literal risk/reward involved in using arts which have the greatest overall impact on swinging matches
Your post doesn't even fucking make sense. The difference between speed and not speed Shulk has little to do with the nuance of neutral. Shulk is even more linear in speed typically because of what works. He's going to try for the grab.

I think you're missing the point. Non-juiced Joker can more freely toss out his counter and gets way more out of it vs most characters. This isn't Smash 4 where grabs will be a hoohah into death in most cases. So he trades the possible getting grabbed with getting an early Arscene and he doesn't even have to risk pulling the counter out too early. Seriously, how do you think Leo keeps it so much?

In every other game you might have a point, but Smash doesn't have a proper ranking system. GSP is worthless.

Word on the street is that he's still finalizing a deal. Although it was just a rumor from some drunk guy at The Mango so we'll see.

Who?

some 15 years old girl at a local
youtube.com/watch?v=haWMqPr7I1U

>Competitive Smash

Attached: 1546328669282.jpg (1280x1280, 220K)

I like how your canned response to anyone who knows anything about Shulk is that they are a shit player. Your underage is showing dude

You're missing the point, brainlet.
Speed is one of his most important arts in neutral, and when you constantly have to use it, you're constantly alternating between a character that's slow/jumps normal and a character that's fast but falls quick. This takes a toll on muscle memory, and it's not something a low level player like yourself is capable of understanding or mastering.

A god amongst people old enough to drink

Attached: 34535.png (1264x1678, 3.31M)

Joker could probably use a nerf, but he's not Bayonetta or Cloud or Diddy in 4, by any means.

MKLeo isn't getting carried by joker, he's a legit top tier player.

>some twitterfags talk about """"""drama"""""" with Bocchi
>tfw sorely dissapointed it wasn't the same Bocchi

Attached: boch mad.png (1123x632, 883K)

I like how you're still carrying on like a baby. Don't worry, I know your pride is hurt, but I'm sure you'll recover it someday. Again, you still won't win anything worthwhile.

She already preemptively blew people out about that, kek

Attached: bocchi.png (1442x1524, 259K)

How far into HRT?

Where? He under-performed in the first major tournament he played at with Joker that I can remember.

>everyone who tells me I'm a retard is the same person
Yeah, you are deifnitely underage.

Why is Ryu so much worse?

>some twitterfags talk about """"""drama"""""" with Bocch
Ahem..go on.

This makes me wonder, will there always be a bottom 10? Is it possible to make every character in the game equally good as the other, so that even if you're "bottom tier" you are still as good as a high tier character?

I can definitely tell you're the sulky Shulk main, upset at being called out for not understanding the optimal playstyle. Keep your crying up, my stupid friend :)

I bet you think PT is high execution because THREE WHOLE CHARACTERS. Shulk is retardo easy to transition between speed and regular. Do you seriously have trouble keeping up the difference between the two?

Got slapped down in Japan right off the bat and then fell into it. Once a few tools were refined the character is now a more legit threat. I don't necessarily think Joker is top in the game or anything, but a few of the tools are just silly/dumb, which is par for the course for DLC.

Arsene should require a little more effort to get, but other than that, he's fine.

Attached: 1560698769091.jpg (1522x1202, 115K)

Based

He isn't, the guy you replied to is a retard.

Both Ryu and Ken are really good now, not everyone has caught on. Very technical though.

>Shulk is retardo easy to transition between speed and regular
t. idiot
You don't know anything about the character, and you have a 0% of achieving anything while playing the character. Trash like you need to know their place.

You do see the irony in telling people they are bad and don't know how to play shulk while also crying that he takes too much effort to play, yeah? You're the actual shitter if you think it's too taxing on muscle memory, that switching between 2 arts is exhausting and requires too high of an IQ to play.
You're not capable enough at the game to be able to play Shulk, so instead you claim he is too taxing and that people who say other wise are just bad. You are a walking contradiction.

>You do see the irony
No.
It's time for you to move on, worthless trash. Not reading the rest of your post.

She is female

Both are dumb characters that I am glad are gated by buffering being detrimental. Ken especially with heavy jab into death at mid% and auto-tracking.

It's just some kid fishing for replies. Ignore.

>She is female
Recently?

But I'm not. Just someone pointing out that you have nothing to say to people who actually understand Shulk besides "well you're a shit player"
Get a grip on reality. Your verbal diarrhea is all over the thread and it's possible more than 1 person can respond to your ignorance riddled posts

You can't play Shulk well.

>But I'm not
Nah, you are. Again, move on. You're not the only sucker trying to score hipster points playing a niche character and failing.

He's not me
I don't main Shulk
And you're STILL dodging. Because you know you will lose. Pretty pathetic.
>your next post will be more dodging

I think his smash attack knockback, with or without Arsene, is fucking ridiculous.

>all the pros go on and on about how good WFT is in ultimate
>virtually no one brings her to tournaments other than Wadi and Varun

It hurts.

She and Duck Hunt are the most fun things to watch in high-level play.

Attached: aac89aa9cdb9712ca7b8a3d3a782de03.png (984x1470, 431K)

>No.
You are mentally challenged then.

No everyone is a tranny, stop being a retard

Bad taste on thinking they are interesting to watch, but playing her aggro is fun AF. They made her soooo much better in so many ways, but she still gets fucked with lots of dead zones and low profiling.

She's boring as fuck, and so is Duck Hunt. Luckily both are shit.

"Her" voice tells a different story.....

Your verbal diarrhea is all over the thread and it's possible more than 1 person can respond to your ignorance riddled posts

I enjoy playing as WFT but she's pretty boring to watch.

>changing between 2 arts is exhausting
Maybe if you're awful at the game and on the spectrum, sure.

wat?

>Y-your verbal d-diarrhea!
Haha, keep crying idiot.

t. garbage player who has never won a local.
There's a reason Shulk is not winning tournaments despite being rated highly by top players. Evidently you're too braindead stupid to grasp the reason.

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS VIDYA BUT ETIKA ISNT

I guess I appreciate fun header tech more than most then.

Stuff like this makes me wet:

youtu.be/1g5IhWxGqp0

>why is this thread about a game and gameplay vidya but ecelebs isn't

Attached: 1550825680497.png (203x209, 14K)

I don't know how people haven't found out about the shotos yet. Ken is basically Peach but with more combo starters and guaranteed kill confirms.

whiteis also get butthurt easily

>can't switch between 2 arts
>but you're the garbage player!
Okay kiddo.

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

High level duck hunt is fucking ridiculous.
The amount of setups and mind-games.

I ran into a duck hunt at 4.5 million and it felt like they had 2 or 3 ways to cover every option I had. It was fucking ridiculous. They only used the can to set up spikes, on top of that.

Forgot image

Attached: 32455.png (1308x848, 166K)

Are there seriously thirsty retards in this thread who don't think xhe's a tranny?

I don't understand.
Are people completely unaware on how to talk to anyone else?
Or are they trying to make her a tranny and use her as a weapon for some social propaganda crap?
Or are they all just idiots?

Lol, Here's "her" voice....

twitch.tv/bocchibelle/clip/ThoughtfulDoubtfulPieTBTacoLeft

Attached: zero-tempo-storm-super-smash-bros-ultimate-tournaments-retirement-return-esports-re_feature.jpg (1436x769, 79K)

Does anyone remember that smash pro player from Mexico who was accused of raping a girl in a hotel room?

What’s he been up to

Yikes...

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Attached: 1430561709628.jpg (225x225, 17K)

That's a man baby, that's a mannnnnn

See the trannylover

Thank god this guy is getting dunked on now
>don't have to see him play
>no-one bitches for wario nerfs anymore
Feels good

You can tell it's a tranny just looking at him, nevermind the voice lol.
At only 15 too, pathetic, really.

i love digimon!

WFT is fucking trash, windcuck

>people didn't complain about nerfing Shiek or Diddy
>people didn't complain about... Diddy

youtube.com/watch?v=jfw3oy5wBe0

Is pic related the only actual female to play Smash professionally right now? Not counting Cinnpie or Vicky because they're mainly commentators.

Every other "female" Smasher is a tranny, including the one that beat Mango.

Attached: athena.jpg (1428x900, 326K)

Welp, that's enough internet for me tonight. Goodnight

The what now

MKLeo is just good, if that wasn't evidenced to you by his performance with Ike before Joker came out then you don't understand the game enough to have an opinion. Joker is winning because he has the best player behind him, no other reason. He's not even close to Bayo, he has not 0-kill. Leo's performance with him, if anything, is just a testament to how Ultimate is the best balanced Smash has ever been, and thus more than ever the skill of the player trumps their character pick. Some people just can't understand this as, even if they don't put it directly into words, they don't actually want a well-balanced game because that further emphasizes individual skill.

SuperGirlKels

>including the one that beat Mango.
Wait wat

Admiral and SuperGirlKels have placed pretty well.

I'm sorry but saving a picture of a 15 year old is pretty pedo you fucking looney.

Why does it have to be one or the other?
MK Leo is good
And Joker is also a very good high tier character

I'm glad even plamo is putting detail to WarGreymon's muscles.

Look at this guy with morals lol

What controversy? And to answer your questions

Yes Joker does need a nerf, arsen is just way to good at what it does so either reduce the time it's out or reduce the kill power. Yes mkleo is carrying the character and yes its all an overreaction.

15, don't be weird.

Not any worse than people who save reaction images of 10 year olds or toddlers

He isn't, tweek is better.

Thanks for your input FBI

Remember when he played ike and people were screaming for Ike nerfs?
Yea Forums is the absolute worst place ever to talk about fighting games and fighting game tierlist.
Bunch of bandwagon faggots. Yea Forums will never ever be satisfied with anything until every character is shit tier. Any character that places or wins in tournaments is going to get REEEEEE'D at by Yea Forums. Ultimate has had a shit ton if different tierlist by different pros. Just shut the fuck up, play the game, discover tech, and stop asking for nerfs so much. God damn, let the game develop naturally. I fucking hate you fags.

It's a harmless picture of their face, relax.

>How do you feel about the Joker controversy in Smash Ultimate?
Dumbest choice of character, only in because Sakurai wanted it. This nobody's worse than ROB.

>Does the character need a nerf?
Yes, he's disgustingly over powered.

Is MkLeo being carried?
Yes, I'd like to see this moron use any other character and see how far he gets.

Is it all an overreaction?

Not at all.

Balance in smash is so hotly debated but in real fighting games you can pretty clearly see who the best characters are and its rarer to find disagreement.

Someone who says Chun li is bottom tier in third strike would be ignored, but someone saying little mac could be top gets support from people like him.

This image right here is literally the embodiment of what's wrong with the ultimate and Yea Forums community. Bunch if reactionary fucktards who think, "character won. Character very good now"

>Is MkLeo being carried?
>Yes, I'd like to see this moron use any other character and see how far he gets.
Are you fucking stupid?

I really don't take anything Yea Forums says about competitive smash seriously anyway, for starters most of them are garbage at the game and secondly they never know what the fuck they are talking about.
The board should stick to discussing leaks and who "deserves" to get in smash

>How do you feel about the Joker controversy in Smash Ultimate?
non-smashfag here. What's this shit with Jokre? Is it Bayonetta all over again?

The only thing I'd nerf on Joker is how much Arsen obscures Joker and makes it hard to tell what the fuck he's even doing.

>Joker doesn’t necessarily need a nerf, just an overall rebalancing.
If character is worse after "rebalancing" then it's nerf, you know.

"Oh, Wario won won a major? Damn. He's top tier as fuck."
"Wolf is probably the best character in the game teebeeeych"
"Dude, Ike is so broken...."
"Inkling is definitely without a doubt top 5"

Yeah it's not like he was already winning tournaments before Joker came out, you fucking retard.

Attached: tfw you're sick of your chuuni friend's shit.png (968x675, 1.02M)

youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_mMuULU2Y

youtube.com/watch?v=aW6rI81bAL0

I hope your shit character gets nerfed into the ground. Joker was a mistake, there are a ton of better character choices than this who that no one wanted.

Zero is a fat fucking loser, that doesn't deserve to be sponsored.

>despite the character being mid low tier.
ike is not anywhere near low tier

Mango lost to Magi at Genesis.

Dude is shit. Who would have guessed that not being able to rely on rage and a terrible 2 stock rule would out him as the shitter he is.

Do you think Leo started playing Ultimate in April?
Good God Leo haters are so ridiculous salty and lack functioning brains

joker's certainly not op at my level which is all I care about. I really dont like his persona ability tho, you gotta run away for like a minute every time it procs.

>Admiral
>ice climbers main
>trained by wobbles
Fuck off

Attached: 1459804023083.png (550x366, 197K)

He's not OP at any level of play.

>Yes, I'd like to see this moron use any other character and see how far he gets.
You're a complete idiot.

>turned Marth from dogshit to winning tournaments in 4
>boring
Retard

How hasn't tempo already dropped his lard ass, this dude has been to 1 tournament.

>I'm gloing to start comepteting again guys just joined a new team and Pierce is back as my coach!
>goes to ONE notable tourney and then quits to stream 'full time'
Wew

>only way to win against Joker is to wait
nerf him

turns out that streaming is way better than being a "pro" smash player. Who could have guessed

>T-the real money is in streaming anyways.... I was the number 1 player in a shitty game with shitty rulesets and shitty mechanics... Ultimate sucks.

Because streaming is far more lucrative than esports. Zero has way more advertising power this way than grinding his ass off for a few minutes of screentime in a tournament.

Didn't Pierce get involved in some MeToo twitter drama?

None of those are him winning, so try again.

Nice examples.

It's more lucrative because he's a shitter who can't win anymore. What an absolutely shocking revelation.

If Joker was that good everyone would have good results with him. Joker is not bad but he is not good enough to carry someone. Leo is just that good.

The FGC has the benefit of being more grounded in that regard. If someone makes a claim about X character then they personally have to back it up, Smash unfortunately doesn't have that same discipline of not saying stupid shit all the time.

I don't know about digimon but I really want to fuck Nokia

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He literally won 52 straight tournaments yet made more in a few months streaming then he did in that entire run. Smash is below poverty tier

>smash
>balanced

lol. Give this fat fucker a low tier character while i'm using a top tier character and watch while I mop the floor with him.

please dont post this face ever again

So Him winning previous tournaments means joker isn't op? Ok dude, whatever you say.

Yup. he got MeToo'd out of the community. Zero pretending like he was never friends with him and never gave any shit about him and distanced himself from him like the plague lol.

I see you didn't watch the Ike video then?

How long before his fanbase bails on his fatass, like he did on tournaments.

>Retards like this actually exist.

MkLeo is carrying Joker if anything. What other prominent player has been getting results with joker?

Why can't he stream and go to tournemts, it's not like he's doing something else all day.

>I'd like to see this moron use any other character and see how far he gets.

Joker isn't OP. But you said that you'd like to see him use any other character and do well. Meanwhile, there is 5 months worth of tournaments where he uses other characters besides joker. Even after his release there is still tourneys where he used other characters. You're a braindead moron

delusional idiot

Yes

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WarGreymon is made for sex, even they agree on that.

it's called opportunity cost. He basically streams every day and sometimes re-streams big tournaments. Scummy? Maybe, but it's a lot smarter and more lucrative than being the best smash player. No travel, no random out of pocket costs, no real pressure, etc. If smash ever started making real money it would be a real decision

Man Digimon sure has everything for everyone.
>barafags
>waifufags
>lolifags
>shotafags

is there anything it doesn't cater to?

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It's fine that he's streaming now, if he's doing better there and making more money and more content that's is perfectly fine. It's just kind of sad to see how much he let smash fall to the wayside in general. He has no passion or care for Ultimate.
It's clear he doesn't even really keep up with it nor play it often.When the new patch came out he was testing out Diddy on stream and getting hype for things you've been able to do with Diddy since the game released. Like he didn't even know what changed about him and what he was already capable of doing.

Again glad he's doling fine and good for him, I have nothing against him but it's hard to take anything he says about Ultimate seriously nowadays

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Overreaction as everything that happens in the fucking Competitive Smash community. Fitting to the kids they are. They should just keep punching holes in walls.

Imagine going full strawman because you got blown out, lol

>Does the character need a nerf?
They could tone down his meter gain when not using rebel's guard, but other than that not really.
>Is MkLeo being carried?
No, he's the only outstanding Joker right now.
>Is it all an overreaction?
Yeah, people are just salty about getting styled on in quick play. People will bitch about the next DLC once the inevitable nerfs drop.

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Seething smash babby

I'd like to add this isn't exaggeration, even his subs were calling him out for getting things about Diddy wrong or saying he could already do that beforehand. I think even they realize he doesn't give a shit about Ultimate

I don't care what he does or how he chooses to do it.
I just want him to admit he sucks dick at ultimate instead of finding different excuses. Nothing more annoying than some washed-up player who tries to stay relevant in an environment he is completely irrelevant in.

nothing more satisfying than seeing a samus scrub get rekt

B-but, I made a difficult decision but streaming made more sense for me! I could be good at Ultimate but s-streaming!

I never understood this controversy. The best player in the world is winning, big fucking whoo. H-Box just went several months undefeated and nobody was saying Jigglypuff was a broken character.

If you actually watch the Leo matches he never pulls any crazy jank nor cheese with overpowered moves. He just cleanly outplays everyone. Joker just happened to be the character he clicked with.

Who really cares if he admits it or not, Everyone knows he's completely irrelevant in Ultimate and it's hilarious to watch his fans still rally behind him like he's some great player. Even Nairo has called him out when people bring him up on his stream as someone who doesn't compete lol.

It is super scummy, and I wouldn't call it smarter since his fatass actively tries to be in the smash community, he's basically the akademiks of smash at this point. Also if Mr. Tubs is making so much money you're really going to tell me he can't afford a plane ticket.

Seriously, how hard is it to say, "Hey guys, ultimate isn't clicking with me and I'm not as good as I was in 4. I think I may skip this one to focus on streaming."

>y and sometimes re-streams big tournaments
Don't give a shit about Zero but this is pretty pathetic

How do you feel about Void picking up Pichu in Melee?

youtube.com/watch?v=XzFNYpbOOxo

>He literally won 52 straight tournaments
I still don't understand how he pulled this off. It was really surreal watching tourney after tourney and the best players getting obliterated by him over and over. Other good players used Diddy too and weren't doing as well so you can't even say it was just that. He just had some magic knowledge about smash 4 and no one caught on for like a year.

Are you retarted? Did you not see the countless ban jigglepuff post.

He seems....pretty bad at Melee

You're actually just an idiot if you think ZeRo wouldn't be a top five player if he tried.

The shit rulesets complimented his playstyle and character very well.
Getting a lead in smash 4 is basically guaranteed victory, since pushing towards closing the gap pushes him into his win condition

Seethe more.

lmao I'd be willing to bet a year's salary that you wouldn't be able to take a game from him under those conditions.

>H-H-he would be good if he tried!!!!!
Lol.

They never said it was broken, just that it "encouraged lame play" and were ultimately dismissed as salty people jealous of H-Box.

"Muh results are the only thing that matters bro"
Nigger, you think ZeRo was the only Diddy Main? Hell, he played Sheik and Falcon for Shits and giggles and he still won most tournaments, because he actually made an effort to grind. Now he's just a washed up sack of shit that makes money off of Children.

He destroys everyone he plays, and he plays the best players in the world. He literally just doesn’t enter tournaments lol

Guess we will never know, since he isn't trying.

I understand your Twitch stream hasn't taken off, but this petty jealousy is just embarrassing. He was top 30 in Melee within like a year, top in Brawl, top in PM, undisputed goat of Smash 4.
Look at the Smash 4 rankings and aside from a few Bayo mains everyone is doing fine.

Well thanks for having a better memory than me.

If he doesn't enter tournaments then he's not playing good people. All he does is handpicking fights he wins in Elite Smash" which have mostly horrendous lag, and uploads those to youtube. He's just a streamer at this poiny.

>He destroys everyone he plays
?????
He doesn't even fucking enter Ultimate tournaments.
And if you mean on stream, you're absolutely wrong that he wipes the floor with everyone, Nairo has beaten him plenty, for instance.

Do you think he'll ever try again, or keep making clickbait videos?

Dude, he hit the goddamn motherload, and now is fucking obsessed with exercise, I highly doubt he'll come back to competing.

why is it so hard to think he just prefers streaming to playing competitively? he makes a good living by just sitting at home playing x game and yelling memes than working his ass off in a game with one of the shittiest competitive scenes of all in addition to traveling to tournaments and getting a shit pay. plus he probably enjoys the game way more like that, without being solely focused on the competitive aspect. I know I'd be doing the exact same thing he is doing.

It's been good
It's not shitty Jigglypuff stalling matches so it's automatically better

I don't think he's going to bother getting serious about Ultimate, the drive seems to be gone. Maybe Smash 6.

I have 300 hours on a character who sucks ass and is at or near the bottom of most tier lists, but I play him because his inclusion was important to me. I don't know what anyone sees in Peach or Snake or whatever but I do understand character loyalty.

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>Ike is mid-tier

Ike has the best aerial in the game, completely walls out half the cast with his default range, is strong as fuck, isn't slow and has obnoxious vertical recovery. He's also easy as fuck to learn. In no universe is the character mid-tier.

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Joker is definitely the best character in the game. This is intentional. If he wasn't the best no one would buy him. He'll probably get nerfed once the next round of dlc is released.

Everyone but poor Mr. R.

Kinda sucks no one cares about it considering they're actually putting a modicum of effort into the series unlike Gamefreak is doing with pokemon.

I don't give a shit because I am not a pro player and neither are 99% of the people whining about this.

This should be Yea Forums's opinion instead of pretending to know stuff

Of course he's decent at all the bad gimmick smash games, and hasn't even come close to anything relevant on a decent smash.

RIP all those mothers credit cards.

As user said dude actually started skipping regular showers. Because his hygiene started getting bad he ended up developing eczema or some shitty skin condition where the body overly responds to bacteria build up on the skin.

dumb user who doesn't follow tier lists often here, how come mewtwo fell down the list?

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I'v never seen a community cry about characters more than smash.

You cry about who gets in and then everyone is broken. I don't think most players even like the game, you just like nintendo and the hyped up community

He plays Leo and people that win the tournaments retard, I’m not talking about Elite

Mewtwo has a lot of trouble landing. The second you're being juggled you're pretty much fucked.

They enlarged his hurtbox, it covers most of his tail now.

Playing hacker's memory right now

There’s nothing “worse” about redistributing the good attacks a character has, when it serves to make more options for him in a match

The only thing about Joker that actually needs a nerf is down B in both forms, the rest is pretty balanced overall.

this is the post of a child who has no idea about the scene because they started comp literally last year and is only regurgitating what retards before him have posted on 4chinz

t. garbage player

Haha stay mad idiot. Ice Climbers will forever be picked by shitty players like you.

that looked swaggy

Tell him to play Brawl Minus instead

I'm deadass

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>Tell him to play
How braindead idiotic are you?

Joker is being carried by mkleo. When joker came out, everyone had him mid to high tier, then mkleo won a tournament and all of a sudden he’s broken. Add that to the fact online babies cant beat jokers, and you have a clickbait video my chilean friend

>Make his meter charge far slower for anything that's not Rebel's Guard
>Give Arsene some fucking alt colours so you can tell what's going on in a mirror match
There, Joker's fixed.

Based, redpilled, etc.

Nerfing characters is a nigger behavior. Do not nerf.

How braindead idiotic are *you*?
I don't watch his streams, others maybe do. In which case, they should pass this on.

Why are you so fucking retarded? Did your mother drop you on your head at birth? You should end her suffering of having a shiteating faggot son by blowing your brains out, especially since you neglected to give her a proper present for mother's day. Would be the only gracious act of your entire relationship with her.

Why does he pretend to still care about competitive Smash? Are there still people who subscribe because of it, and half-assedly throwing them a bone every once in a while keeps them paying?

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>is joker good?
yes
>Is joker broken?
no
>is leo being carried?
no
>is joker being carried?
also no
>is joker the next bayo?
no you retard
>does joker need nerfs
na
>is the smash community just whiny faggots?
yes

also did no one feed this poor 16 year old he's a fucking twig is he anorexic or is he flexing his onions sauce genes on the westerners

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Well that explains alot thanks fellas