What the FUCK were they thinking?

>"What franchise can we milk that we haven't in a while?"
>"A lot of people liked Doom"
>"Not anymore!"

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>What the FUCK were they thinking?
>people want another Doom game from us, but we don't really want to make one
Then we got Scary Half-Life: Mars Edition.

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Carmack autism without Romero's insanity. Exactly the same thing with Quake 2.

it was fucking great, yall need to replay it

>let’s make a bad doom game
>but a fucking awesome event horizon/‘space sucks’ game
At least Doom 3 guy isn’t a roid raged big dicker so you can have an ambush with a few bad guys and still have them present a threat. NuDoom is fun on the opposite spectrum: None of the bad guys feel like they can step up to NuDoomguy and you’re only dying because you lost track of a fireball, and this is either a 1 or 2 shot because there’s no reason not to play on Nightmare.

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Reminder that using a "flashlight duct tape mod", or playing the BFG edition, ruins the game, so don't do that, kids.

One is a brain without a soul, the other is a disembodied soul, lacking a brain, obviously. They need each other to produce greatness.

Doom 3 is fun but it isn't ripping and tearing.
I dunno. I'm fine with it. It was a visual treat on release. This, Far Cry, Half Life 2 and Escape from Butcher Bay. Blew my dick off with graphics. I miss graphics being able to progress some noticeably in such a short time.

Nightmare sucks, veteran all the way to go.

could decide whether they wanted to go all in on horror or action.
still a hell of a lot better than the new game/s

They tried to reinvent the wheel and missed the point of doom. Something they caught and fixed with Doom 16

not really sure where autism enters into it, at worst both games are just a little uninspired. At least doom 3 had a nice aesthetic. q2 was just boring all round

I thought the game was pretty fine on it's own. I even enjoyed it a lot for what it was. Atmosphere was pretty great although I think a better question was what the FUCK were they thinking with the BFG edition?

>No mod support
>Runs on Idtech 5
>Brightness turned way up
>Flashlight on shoulder despite enemy encounters being BUILT around flashlight swapping
>More ammo and healthpacks than the original game
>Weird new textures for enemies

It's just a fucking mess. Don't get the BFG version, just get the original with some mods that patch it to give modern resolutions and tweaks and you're good to go.

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>autism
John Carmack is an autist and not a good video game designer. He is really good at making engines because of his autist tendencies. If you want a good game and Carmack, you need a Romero faggot to add the aesthetics, levels etc. because Carmack has no idea what is fun or good, only that shorthand inverse calculations are the fucking tiddies.

Carmack is the engine guy, he knows what needs to be done on a technical side. However, he can't make levels or "fun" gameplay mechanics inside the game. Romero is the opposite side of the spectrum. He knows game design like the back of his hand but can't get into the technical side without looking like an ass (As he is reminded with Daikatana).

They tried to make something very different

For Doom 3? Sure but not for Nudoom

This game is both linear and easy, which makes it a slog to play through.
Seriously, the amount of armor you get is absurd. You can tank through most of the game.

>fixed with Doom 16
>lets us spoonfeed you "ripping and tearing™" for an EPIC experience
no, Doom2016 completely misses the point, 3 gets it half right

ironically hating popular things doesn't make you an interesting person

>pay artist 90k salary to make some amazing textures and scenery
>put in all in pitch black darkness
how can one programmer be so based?

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>No mod support

It does now

Nah, the industrial aesthetics and sound design and general horror tone are pure Doom 64.

Who the fuck was directing the game, Carmack himself? Did nobody else step in to say "John, this game looks great but plays like shit, we should tweak things around"

Very true, but whats that have to do with his post?

>Who the fuck was directing the game, Carmack himself?
Wasn't it Tim Willits?

The textures and scenery are all but side dishes. The real star of the game was the lighting and shadows, which you won't be able to fully experience if there's a fucking light shining all the time.

Doom 3 doesn't really play like shit though. It just doesn't play well enough to assuage the hardcore rip n tear crowd so long after normalfags enjoyed it, a few autists still ree about it.

It's a solid game. Doom still best Doom

Doom 2016 is significantly harder than Doom 3.

oh look, it's this asinine comment repeated for the trillionth time

nu Doom is not a bad game, but it definitely falls short in a lot of ways. It's not the savior of shooters by a long shot. If I just look at people I know who are shooter fans, most of them played nu Doom, raved about it, and didn't play it more than twice

He may have been the lead designer but Carmack was the one that wanted to do a remake of Doom from the get go.

>The enemies evaporate with an orange shader effect
>evaporate
>evaporata
>evaporate
FUCKING WHY
EXPLOSIVES DONT EVEN GIB
WHY WHY WHY WHY

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Let's do Event Horizon: The game
It turned out to be absolute kino

This. It's a good game, but not a good Doom game.

there's nothing to ironically hate. Doom 2016 is a horrendous Doom game that marketed and designed itself entirely around being a "return to form" to people who don't even know what that form is because they never fucking played it. It's Doom for people whose only experience with the series is watching 5 minutes of BWUTAL DOOM on YouTube, and who never even played a build engine game or really any FPS pre HL2

Yeah Doom 3 makes a lot more sense after playing Doom 64. I also think Doom 64 is probably the best game in the series but the Baron of Hell spam got really fucking old after a while.

It's a shame what little choices you actually get to make in the game don't even matter at all

>UAC guy says don't send the transmission because we don't know what we're dealing with here
>Alright, don't send it
>Betruger just sends it anyway in the next level

shotgun has horrid spread but the damage itself is actually fine. You're supposed to basically put it right in their face. Sorta like Postal 2's shotgun, actually.

The boomers never fucking stop jesus christ

I'm playing through it for the first time in 10 years and was wondering if it was a false choice.

the best Doom is Painkiller

Well, technically you won some time.

Gross.

No, Painkiller is best Serious Sam.

>understandable post
>F-FUCKING BOOMERRR
Chill out

>I also think Doom 64 is probably the best game in the series but the Baron of Hell spam got really fucking old after a while.
I'd like to see a faithful update of Doom 64 with the missing monsters restored. It's a pity the game seems stuck in a weird legal limbo. You can't just use the Doom II versions, though, because Doom 64's art style is different.

what does how many times you play a game have to do with how good the game is?

This, fucking shit some of the monster counts in SS just get so fucking boring

This. They tried to make DOOM a "serious" game by DOOM3.

>more ammo and health packs
why the fuck would they add more? there's plenty of ammo throughout the whole game.

Doom 2016 is fine. It doesn't play like old Doom, but that's not an issue, it's its own thing. I do wish there was less locked in arenas, and I'm hoping Eternal fixes that. Eternal looks like it'll be pretty goofy and fun from what they showed so far.

Adding onto my thought here since we're talking about shotguns in Doom 3, the Super Shotgun actually feels really balanced in ROE. The silver lining of having to reload is that you have a reason to swap back and forth between the two guns. Use the SS to quickly kill a stronger enemy, then kill other enemies with the regular shotgun.

I think they were trying to compete with FEAR.

But spread of regular shotguns sucks ass, it's literally melee weapon.

That's what I said here Yeah, you're basically supposed to use it like a melee weapon. Doom 3's tight and compact level design makes this easy to accomplish

Well, since you asked, some games are not designed as cinematic or story experiences, but as games that are simply fun to actually play for a variety of reasons. In FPS games, this usually boils down to a combination of movement, shooting mechanics/weapons, enemy AI and flavor, and map design.

For games such as this, the more one feels compelled to play the game and is drawn back to it by the strengths of its gameplay, the better it probably is. If I play an FPS one time, and then start raving that it's a 10/10 GOTYAY, all the while feeling absolutely no incentive to start a new game... well, that would me sound a little foolish, wouldn't it?

Plenty people took OG Doom “seriously”. Times though, as Doom 64 and then Doom 3 showed.

wtf was Betruger's problem?

Calling Doom 2016 a "horrendous" Doom game is fucking asinine. Do people forget that Old Doom had arena combat as well? Does Dead Simple ring a bell? Not only that, but Doom's combat was almost always at its best when you were in those arena situations. Doom 2016 simply focused on the combat aspect of Doom and they nailed it. It has some of the best combat in any FPS game I've ever played. The early levels also felt a lot like old Doom and had a lot of non-linearity and secrets to find. Foundry is a great level and wouldn't feel out of place in classic Doom. The game gets significantly worse level design as it goes on, but that's also true of Doom 1 as well.

Times **changed

I feel this statement applies to Wolfenstein more than Doom

was meant for you

The shotgun feels like you’re shooting pillows instead of buckshots

>why the fuck would they add more? there's plenty of ammo throughout the whole game.
Only if you take your time searching cabinets and looking for combinations in e-mails and audio logs. Zoomers, to which the BFG edition was marketed towards, don't have the patience to do this. They want cowadooty fast-paced action, befitting for their attention span. It's really telling about Doom '16's design, too.

Here is some gameplay of both games both played by people extremely familiar with both games, on the highest difficulty level
this is doom 2016 gameplay.
youtube.com/watch?v=eQ1ukTsn618
the vast majority involves glory kill spam, grenades spam, static positioning to abuse the enemy AI, and a extremely slow paced almost cover shooter like design and no real level design outside of "get locked in room, kill everything, do it again" unless you're finding some out of the way secret. It is extremely gory and over the top to appeal to people who never played doom and think thats what doom is.
this is original doom gameplay
youtube.com/watch?v=3rCTpwLdYQA
it features none of that, and is a fast paced shooter where movement and enemy attack knowledge instead of corner peeking or safe zone camping, with open ended level design, and no instakill melees.

>Doom 2016 is too slow!
>Doom 2016 is too fast!
make up your minds boomers

I liked it, a good game of its time that actually tried to push the tech and new gameplay idea in the genre
The ingame interactive pads that are now the norm came from here, and first real use of normal and spec maps in unified shading model for a full game also a norm now, this concept would eventually evolve into modern pseudo pbr solutions.

And i liked the horror theme.

>Calling Doom 2016 a "horrendous" Doom game is fucking asinine. Do people forget that Old Doom had arena combat as well? Does Dead Simple ring a bell?
The now most memed-on map? That was a one-off silly little gimmick?
>Not only that, but Doom's combat was almost always at its best when you were in those arena situations
No, Doom’s “combat” happened the same time you were progressing the level. Quake’s a similar deal. Dusk follows this, having fun level design sometimes topped off with a big fight near the end.
Doom ‘16 lacks all that variety but looks and sounds great. It’s also not horrendous - nor is it Doom, and that’s okay.

Two big issues with your post. For one thing, D4 Ultra-Nightmare has permadeath, unlike Doom's nightmare, which changes things hugely. And for another thing this "Pro Doom" guy is playing on UV, not Nightmare (Doom's highest difficulty).

It was implied that he became a demon at some point before the events of the game, iirc

Neither of those impact the actual gameplay. the optimal way to play doom16 is as a pseudo cover shooter to spam your infinite recharging grenades and to spam your instakill melees/ the optimal way to play actual doom is to actually learn how to play the game.

I for one love the enemies drop hp idea, it paces the fights nicely.
Only problem i gad with the game is that it was too easy, never escalated in scale mostly due to tech limitations. High fps requirement on the shitty consoles meant no rooms with 20 enemies.

> slow, dark, jump scares, story
> 3 gets it falf right
more like full wrong.

>Not only that, but Doom's combat was almost always at its best when you were in those arena situations.
Those are “slaughterfests” and are generally pretty boring, they often combine a ton of monster types in a singular big area. It’s like combining all the colors in the rainbow, you just have this weird big blob of projectiles that you just strafe around.
Thankfully they don’t happen often in vanilla maps save for map32 clusterfucks.

rpgcodex is seething over doom again, i see.

*over nu-doom

>but not a good Doom game.
Kind of meaningless thing to say. Doom 1/2, Doom 3, and Doom 2016 are all very different things.

they wanted to remake quake but with the gameplay 2-3 times slower and short render distance in order to cater to consoles. The atmosphere and horror influence are similar and they almost even got Trent Reznor back for sound design in doom 3.

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event horizon is garbage so its no wonder why doom 3 is also

I don't hate it because it's popular, I hate it because of the game design and honestly I couldn't give a shit what it looks like.

Why can't you retards understand why different weapons fill different roles.

It was a decent game. I'm actually quite glad they tried something different. Graphically it holds up fairly well. Sound and atmosphere were on fucking point too.
Could've used less monster closets. A few more open areas with shitloads of enemies would have been nice also. Last boss was a let down.
Overall it was an above average fun game I'd recommend to most. Considering the original Doom was so fucking monumental I don't envy the team that made this one. If the fucking disc was made of solid platinum and playing it cured cancer people would have still bitched.

Oh yeah bro, im sure having PERMADEATH has zero impact on how he plays the game. Thats definitely how people play normally.

You can edit a config file for a shotgun to have as little spread as you'd like, and compensate damage by reducing pellet count per shot. Then it suddenly becomes one of the meatiest shotties eva

What part of optimal do you not understand? Both are playing essentially without saving. You see how the games play massively different when you want to get the most out of them. Just because you can play doom16 on very easy doesn't change the fact its nothing like what an actual doom game is.

>Dusk follows this
Kind of? That game has a LOT of arena style fights in it as well, and wow what a surprise they are also the most engaging and fun combat encounters in the game. Outside of those big fights the game is more carried by its atmosphere than anything else because its enemy design is not that great. Only fighting a few enemies at a time in that game is rather boring.

A game can be a good one timer and just be that, but some of the best games are ones you'll continuously come back to just for the fun of it. Not to say Doom 2016 is a bad game by any means, it's still a blast and I'm still excited for Eternal, but its definitely not a title I feel like I can come back to compared to how pick up and play the first two DOOMs were.

>Kind of? That game has a LOT of arena style fights in it as well, and wow what a surprise they are also the most engaging and fun combat encounters in the game.
They’re also solved nearly solely by just diagonally strafing.
>Outside of those big fights the game is more carried by its atmosphere than anything else because its enemy design is not that great.
All of its “design” is ugly, but that’s not the point. The way the enemies and fights are spread through-out each level is what keeps them interesting. If there was no merit to the levels or playing through them, each shooter would just be an endless horde mode - which Dusk does supply for people with no awareness of what makes a good level.

Most people did not play Doom like the guy in your post though you fucking retard. Most people played it by jumping around and shooting things not playing super conservatively because they were playing on the hardest difficulty with fucking permadeath. The "optimal" way to play most games is usually by playing them in the most boring way possible. The "Pro Doom" video you posted is not an example of someone playing optimally on the highest difficulty setting, so the two playstyles are just not comparable. Jesus you are a fucking idiot.

Nothing wrong with Doom 3. It's a rough diamond but maybe they should have listened to you to really make it shine in the early 00s.

God you're a fucking retard. You can put Ninja Gaiden on the easiest difficulty, spam X-X-X and beat the entire game, if you actually want to play the game the right way and beat it on anything past that you need to learn HOW to play it and play it optimally. The best and most optimal way to play Doom16 is to play it as a fucking cover shooter, and spam instakills because that is the fucking peak of the gameplay possible in the game, because the game is designed to be played on low difficulty so that it can be a godamn cinematic press F to BRUTAL KILL shitfest for 16 year old retards who never fucking played the original game.
Now show me a single time where the optimal strategy in the original Doom is to spam your instakill, remain completely stationary in a corner, peeking and using grenades until the room is clear like you see here youtu.be/eQ1ukTsn618?t=985 you fucking moron.

Well, which role [shit spread] does? What type of enemy can be killed by only [shit spread]?

I'm not talking about the aesthetics I'm talking about the enemies mechanics. Most of them do not pose any sort of threat under any circumstance. Just compare them to the enemies in Quake. They are all fucking jokes. Its only when you combine different enemy types with good level design do you get good combat in Dusk.
>They’re also solved nearly solely by just diagonally strafing.
Okay, and the the combat situations not in arenas is solved by what exactly? Combat outside of arena's doesn't demand you play in all that different of a style. The level design in Dusk outside of the arena's is not as good as you are making it out to be. The "traps" in Dusk are a joke compared to something like Doom because unless there are a big group of differing enemy types in Dusk you can dispatch them without even trying. Even the most basic enemies in Doom and Quake can pose a threat whereas in Dusk enemies like the basic cultists or the basic soldiers can almost be ignored.

it's a close range weapon you fucking nincompoop

>close range
weeew
so it's a melee weapon?

The optimal way to play NG is to spam flying swallow the majority of the time so your argument once again falls apart. Try again retard.

>Now show me a single time where the optimal strategy in the original Doom is to spam your instakill, remain completely stationary in a corner, peeking and using grenades until the room is clear like you see here [YouTube] Doom Ultra Nightmare Gameplay No Commentary (embed) you fucking moron.

You're a literal monkey.

i'm enjoying your anger, because you clearly didn't played that game.

I have, and it's not a melee weapon. It's a short range weapon... wow jeez that's complicated I can't imagine how anyone could comprehend that.

What the FUCK were they thinking?

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The game it's too long for it's own good.
Same can be said about the new Doom

>slow
wrong

>Old Doom games didn't have darkness or jump scares!
So you never touched a Doom game before 3. Good to know.

Doom 3 was generally well recieved and sold well. OP and most of this thread are being contrarian to a game they likely didnt even play, and if they did they modded the gun flashlight in.

i enjoyed Doom 3 at launch. it wasn't the sequel I wanted but it was good for the time. I find it almost impossible to revisit now because of its flaws.

You're literally too stupid for Yea Forums.

The shotgun should not be close-range. You already have fists and chainsaws for that. The shotgun is for shooting. Shooting extremely fast projectiles over a distance. It should be able to do decent damage to foes more than 5 feet away.

I didn't say it's a NATURAL melee, it's just acts because balance of this gun is shit. It's becomes irrelevant after you get hands on chaingun, because there is plenty ammo for SMG which can hit shit.
Fresh fish.

All that tells me is that the highest difficults are not well balanced.

>They are all fucking jokes. Its only when you combine different enemy types with good level design do you get good combat in Dusk.
You just described all enemies in Quake AND Doom, besides mini-bosses like shamblers and cyberdemons. That’s also the idea: The enemies get interesting when they work with each other.
>Okay, and the the combat situations not in arenas is solved by what exactly?
Not by forever diagonal-strafing for one, and it all depends on the fight. There’s places like the cutty mines that get crowded and areas where you first run into the windegos, where you fight them in a crowded dark hallway and then later the opposite: with jump pads.
I’ve also yet to try each level with a ‘naked’ loadout, using only what I picked up in each level and not what’s earned throughout the episode.
>The level design in Dusk outside of the arena's is not as good as you are making it out to be.
Thankfully the developer disagreed with you because he didn’t just end it at a horde mode.
>Even the most basic enemies in Doom and Quake can pose a threat whereas in Dusk enemies like the basic cultists or the basic soldiers can almost be ignored.
I don’t even know how fair that comparison is considering how mandatory killing is in Doom 16 to unlock initial areas.

>people really like brutal doom, huh?

It had a lot of poopy guns that were mostly unsatisfying.

That's really the only problem. Everything else is just nitpicking.

Well okay I'll give you the "flashlight being it's own item" was dogshit but I still believe the only thing truly wrong with Doom3 is the arsenal. It lacked that punch that made custom maps worth making.

Something that should have been a new IP was shoehorned into an existing, well-known IP for the sake of better sales. Money, that's what they were thinking.

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Shame that the engine was rad as fuck

>Doom 3 pretty much plays like normal Doom once revenants are introduced
>fantastic sound design minus the guns
>great monster designs especially when compared to new doom
>visuals are a perfect mixture of Dooms satanic imagery and future industry mixed with Quakes grit

>no one bothers to play it through since the first few hours are survival horror

the shotgun could feel fantastic. it could also feel like you were shooting an empty air-filled super soaker that you pumped the shit out of. it was very inconsistent.

The game plays like shit the whole way through though, only good thing about it is the new engine it's built upon, too bad like 4 other games used that engine, it was significantly superior to unreal 2, and in many ways better than source.

Horror themed Doom game is a fucking fantastic idea you shit. Just that Doom 3 didn't have the best execution of it.

This was a great fucking game

>The game plays like shit the whole way through though
I thought it played great. You had to be good at switching your weapon for the right enemy and sprint all the time. The hell levels were pretty great

I never said the game was hard.

No it wasn't, Doom 64 was only decent when they ported it to PC, like 20 years later. It lacked the speed and nigh perfect level design of the original. I hate underage retards so goddamn much.

>Do people forget that Old Doom had arena combat as well? Does Dead Simple ring a bell? Not only that, but Doom's combat was almost always at its best when you were in those arena situations.
But most of the time arena combat scenarios in classic Doom are boring (aside from purposefully designed gimmick levels like Dead Simple). All you do is circle strafe around groups of enemies so they start in-fighting, and then easily handle the remaining demons after they've mostly killed themselves. It's only ever somewhat interesting when an Archvile is thrown into the mix.

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>Doom 64 was only decent when they ported it to PC, like 20 years later. It lacked the speed and nigh perfect level design of the original
64 isn't that much slower than 1 or 2, and generally has much better level design than 2 overall.