Grim Dawn

This, holy fuck. I don't know why but Grim Dawn bores the absolute shit out of me. Maybe it's the Titan Quest progression system but there is nothing exciting about playing the game whatsoever.

needs more monster mods

It's the little things piling up. Most of the loot doesn't look very appealing and lots of skills take far too long to start feeling satisfying, coupled with even the hardest difficulty being a bit too much on the easy side.

>torchlight 2
don't fucking listen to this user, this game will make you so bored of the genre. Grim Dawn is good because it's not too challenging and has fun class combos

>torchlight 2 is boring
>suggest grim yawn
I don't even.

It's pretty in depth with pretty much unlimited options, so I'd say it's a good entry to get an idea of how much the genre has to offer BUT you have to put a lot of effort into it.
It starts off pretty easy too so you won't really ever feel stuck but it's a good idea to force yourself to learn the mechanics anyway as it'll help in the long run.

>most of the loot doesn't look very appealing
I can't think of a single h&s that has more interesting loot dropping at the same frequency as it does in GD.

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You can't tell me with a straight face that the game with like 4 classes is better than Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn is the best ARPG on the market, my friend. I hope you enjoy yourself.

>played on ultimate till lvl 60
>random hero skeleton with reflection oneshots me
took a 2 weeks break already.

I meant "hardcore" till ultimate ffs
playing on hardcore is satysfing imo

Is pretty bad. Everything from level design to how fucking boring the skills feel. I had more fun with TQ.

Fun isn't necessarily tied to classes. My experience with GD is - slowly walking here, slowly walking there, hold attack key whiling fighting sleep because all skills are boring and so fucking long way to get/level them. Torchlight plays fast and classes are fun to try each one. That's why I think Torchlight will be much more better experience for somebody new to genre.

It's probably the hardest one on the market right now, especially with the expansions.

If you have loot autism you may as well play Path of Exile like the rest of us virgin manchild neckbeards.

Diablo 3 is the only ARPG I've liked because of its focus on satisfying combat.

Yeah, I agree. It's not a terrible game in any regard but everything is so mediocre it becomes boring.
The Titan Quest character system doesn't seem fun to me. It's mostly just numbers and effects but you don't really have combos or spells to use unless you go for a very specific way. The story starts fine but soon I stopped caring, everything felt slow and uninteresting. Aside from the captain at the start I don't even remember a charismatic character while I could list several in the Diablo saga.

>Grim Dawn
A complete mess. They have this stupid devotion star system which gives you new abilities, eliminating any distinction between builds and making every attack into a rainbow colored particle fest, and the forgettable and uninspired monsters, skills and world don't help it out at all. There is no good justification for playing this game.
>Titan Quest
Starts off feeling amazing, but you quickly realize almost every enemy has the exact same AI, down to the way they dodge and attack. As a result, the entire game feels exactly the same past the first act or maybe second act if you are slow in the head. The developers also had no fucking clue what they were doing, the expansion is a balancing mess and the game was a bugfest until they re-re-refixed it 10 years later. An absolute embarrasment of a game.
>Diablo
Janky. Simple things like aiming and moving become the greatest challenge. Overall, a very easy, quick and fun experience despite the age, every monster, quest and spell is highly memorable and distinct.
>Diablo 2
The only good Diablolike ever made, which leaves no surprise as to why everyone else ripped it off. The art is gorgeous and detailed, with every enemy death more memorable than the entirety of Grim Dawn. Skills are surprisingly well balanced yet simplistic in design, allowing you to pull off just about anything. The music is god tier and despite being super unfinished towards the later parts of the game, it still manages to feel like the most complete package in the genre. Each patch version creates distinct new playstyles, allowing for immense replayability. A masterpiece.
>Path of Exile
The autistic brother in the genre that everyone silently agrees never should have happened. Imagine Grim Dawn's rainbow colored effects garbage, but ramp it up even further. The only people that play this are loot and speed addicts, waiting for that next high from a good find or a quick playthrough.

>actually complaining about devotions

>They have this stupid devotion star system which gives you new abilities, eliminating any distinction between builds
what in the fuck
How did you type this and think that anyone would take this line seriously?

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meant for

>devotions
>good
wow another layer of boring stat ups and passive effects

>Options bad
Shouldn't you be playing Diablo 3?

This. Fucking this. It's just KILL KILL KILL and pray to God that you don't fuck your characters build because you decided to allocate points in a certain way.

You can't own real estate. Go Fishing, farm or even mine.

You can respec every single point you spent, changing classes is the only thing you can't do.

Yes, just don't loot grind early on. Best to start grinding in Ultimate or high Crucible.

>"""options"""
the system's designed to be an ivory tower senpai

>Can't respec
Found the guy who didn't play the game

>Can't own real estate
>Can't fish, farm, or mine
OP's looking for ARPG Looter, not Stardew Valley.

I haven't touched the first one, but Torchlight 2 is good for people new to the genre. At the very least it feels like it was made for children, so where better to start?

What's wrong with Path of Exile?

respec costs grow exponentially to crazy levels

>cRaZY LEveLs
If you really played it, you should know that respec costs are immaterial especially on higher levels.

I'm also wondering same question as OP. Below are ones I'm aware of.

Diablo III
Torchlight II
Path of Exile
The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing
Grim Dawn

Which of these is good? Are there others?

Question to all you loot grind/hack and slash fans out there.
Why do we need to have boring, useless and uninteresting loot?
Any of these games you play you usually find one INTERESTING item in a pile of 300. Why is that? Why do we need those procedurally generated yellow magic items?

The obvious answer would be "we need useless and bad filler loot to make it more exciting when something actually good drops" but when i replayed Torchlight 2 i just made it so less items dropped overall but almost every item was a unique and the game became much more fun overall.

Someone should really just make a hack and slash/lootathon where every piece of loot is a unique.

>if your really played it
i played this game for the first time in 2016 or so, when it didn't have the big dlcs yet
i made a couple of characters over the years

>respec costs are immaterial
if you want to kill the hardest bosses in the game, even on the normal or veteran difficulty you have to be very careful about your point allocation

at least for devotions and attributes you can get a potions
it takes a lot of money to fix a broken character and starting a new one takes ages

also the fucking limited storage space is pure ass

The loot was always boring.
Even Diablo 1/2 loot wasn't really all that.
ARPGs in general are the most fun when it's your first time playing one, and so you get addicted with that grind, and since you were a kid, you had time to do all that stuff to.

Warhammer 40,000: Inquisitor - Martyr

If you to are an entry level person looking to try and enjoy games in the genre i'd say theyre all enjoyable and has their own charm.
Diablo 3 is relatively weak in comparison but its pretty and satifying to play until 30 hours in or so.
Torchlight 2 is and always will be great for entry level. its got satisfying combat great art and not too grindy.
PoE is the best case 'critically good game'
TIAVH is so so, but its kinda good if you're not nitpicking and expecting too much.
Grim Dawn is also pretty solid, great content and if youre new to the arpg genre its fulfilling and you'd get an exciting 40 or so hours before you feel the similar mobs and what not.

Is Titan Quest anniversary collection worth it if it goes on sale?

Last Epoch looks interesting but has mixed reviews, has anyone played it yet?

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It's like 2 bucks when it's on sale so i'd say go for it but honestly i'd say it hasn't aged all too well.

Yeah, most items are often pointless. Sometimes games try to funnel the useless items into some crafting/material system which in turn allows you to spend those resources into getting/customizing loot you actually want, thus adding some determinism in a system where farming for a very low drop chance item can otherwise be very frustrating.

No it's a boring piece of shit, just like Grim Dawn

PoE is the only one you'll ever want to play

>The autistic brother in the genre that everyone silently agrees never should have happened.
Dunno user, I've been playing since beta. The game has gone through a lot of changes, but some of the recent leagues were fun. There's also huge class diversity, and other than scaling aoe, you don't cover the screen in rainbows. For example some recent meta builds are sweep/cyclone that's literally slashing round with a sword/and moving, bane that's a purple circle on the ground, and arc trapper that's essentially chain lightning. There are some autismo builds like flicker and wormblaster, but those are more obscure and the result of theory crafting to the extreme, not the norm. I somewhat agree with loot addicts, but not the way you put it, especially since crafting is more relevant now. The slot machine item modifier rng that has been around since Diablo II is always present, so finding an item that you want and is not rolled garbage is great. More so if you play SSF.

Victor Vran series is also good, especially for new players (it has some hard to beat enemies though)

lots of storage mods if thats your concern

>lots
a couple, but they don't work for me, they make my computer very slow or don't work propery
or like that GDstash, just not my cup of tea

i just wish i had much more storage in the game

>Why is that? Why do we need those procedurally generated yellow magic items?
Stop playing Diablo 3 and go play games with actual looting systems.
There's such a huge power gap between rares and legendaries in that game that it might as well be an unlock system, pretty sure both PoE and GD have builds which need yellows/craftable modifiers.

Retarded

once you put time into understanding the systems in PoE, you will never look at any other current or past ARPGs again

Is PoE that shitty?

he's right though

>Is PoE that shitty?
>a game based solely on trading being good
Yeah user, Path of Trading is fucking trash.

just play ssfhc you fucking nigger

Retarded

yes you are, at least you know it too

>Played Torchlight 1
>Played Titan Quest
>Played Grim Dawn
>They're all fucking boring
Am I just not getting something here? All these games devolve into "click it until it's dead" with no strategy. Is there anything in the genre that gets the player more involved?

>takes 1000h to reach uber elder
Yikes

>the game is based on trading because I don't like the alternative
Neato.

I'm guessing "new to genre" means a simpler ARPG. If so, I'd avoid Grim Dawn & Diablo 3. Titan Quest isn't bad (a spiritual predecessor to Grim Dawn) & both of the Torchlights could probably pass for good entry level ARPGs as well (T1 more so than T2).

Diablo 1 & 2, at this point, are almost nostalgically simple and aren't overly representative of what ARPGs have become today.

Without more information from you about what you want in an ARPG, that information is all that I can provide.

yeah, i got tired of titan quest

the graphics look very good, but i prefer those turn based rpgs more, i guess

try space siege. Its a small game, 2 or 3 different endings and has talent trees + items.
made by the same company who made titan quest as I remember but its just underrated.

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Torchlight 2 is really great entry point. Complex enough to prepare you for other titles.
D3 if you are mentally ill and holding mouse is challenging.

Just play Path of Exile. It's free and better.

They're number games, you grind to optimize your numbers so you can beat content with bigger numbers.
If you make them too skill based (as in mechanical skill), then you lose out on the number crunching part.

>who made dungeon siege
ftfy

Put all skills in one skill
Search said skill dmg multiplicators in another class
skill that
Braindead game but locations are kinda okay?

Space Siege was a nice game. No loot BS, just upgrade weapons.

About the only thing I'd change is the annoying "morale conflict" of using body upgrades.

Also, it badly needed modding support. That game died specifically because it wasn't allowed to be modded.

Some of the best items in Diablo 2 and PoE are yellow items, not everything has to be LEGENDARY ARTIFACT PRIMAL ULTIMATE SUPER MEGA DEATH WEAPON OF HYPER CARNAGE

Skill effects are important and Grim Dawn fails utterly at it. Every skill uses this same vague, hazy smoke effect with different colors. The game as a whole looks really low quality.

just play path of exile

(You)

deep

>on hardcore
>reflective

yeah, they're annoying but awfully common. at least they aren't as bad as arcane heroes. one shot from their skill turns off all of your toggle skills, so you end up getting killed by something that would normally not be a threat.

I think GD's the best on the market. Class combos are super fun to play around with, devotion procs encourage you to focus on more than just one button. Everything's a lot more deliberate than say PoE where you just have your one screenclear button that you pour absolutely everything into and smash that shit while also smashing your spammable mobility button and that's it. I don't think any ARPG comes close to its loot design. I actually love the setting. There's a lot of American cryptid/folk legend inspiration and that is 100% my shit.
The devotion system is really cool at first but once you understand the game, you tend to end up taking most of the same devotions while working towards 1-2 fun ones. And I'd like some skills with cast bars or something, a lot of buttons feel very samey to press sometimes. But I still think even gameplaywise it crushes the competition just because you end up with a lot of shit to press and keep track of.

All shooting games are also "click it until it's dead", what's your point?

Not (You)

deeper

also a (You) whore projecting, pffft

It's ok. Just don't play hardcore.

It is okay but you can absolutely FUCK yourself with certain builds.

Just play diablo.
And I mean 1.

>Grim Dawn and Titan Quest are arpgs
>have to try not to fall asleep instead of experiencing any action
What did the dev mean by this?

might want to look into a different genre user. Arpgs are just more or less just active glorified cookie clickers.

Because they are faggots.
Diablo1 was WAY better because it had far less loot, and therefore it was more meaningful to find stuff.
D2 started focussing too much on the loot/grind to get those addiction juices flowing, and autists, Koreans and retards kept on chasing THAT element of the genre.
Instead of writing a cool story, creating atmosphere, developing interesting quests, adding meaningful mechanics or anything that'd actually require WORK devs opt for throwing more numbers at you, and with more numbers and more colours, comes MORE stats, and more time spent optimising those stats and chasing those numbers etc etc etc.

Kinda sad really. The only recent games that have satisfied the diablo itch are demons souls and exanima, which goes to show that what made that game so great wasn't the loot or the stats, but the setting, location, exploration, sense of dread and foreboding, the music and the dim lighting, the creepy monsters and methodical progress.

Trading is such a double edged sword in these sorts of games. People want to be able to trade, but including a trading system and at the same time preserving some difficulty/challenge to getting a fully geared character means that the whole loot (and/or crafting) system needs to be based around trading, which in turn means that if you don't want to trade and just want to build a character yourself you are going to be utterly fucked in terms of progression rate, since the drop system is not actually meant for anyone to reach top-tier/end-game builds and content just playing by themselves.

I don't doubt that there's a correlation here. The stories are shallow because they're focused on mechanincs and combat, aka action. Even if it got boring, that was their aim. Lots of players skip through the story - cosindering it only a tutorial of sorts, not the real game - and go to endgame grinding. Still, some games have decent lore, like PoE.

The first one was leagues better. I liked Torchlight, but Torchlight 2 was ass. .

>including a trading system and at the same time preserving some difficulty/challenge to getting a fully geared character means that the whole loot (and/or crafting) system needs to be based around trading

You can just let people trade if they want the option to basically skip the game entirely. They are in the minority anyway. No need to fuck over people who want to play the ARPG they signed up for normally. Now you are stuck playing a shitty trading simulator or try SSF which, unless you are an actual hardcore player, is about as fun as bashing your head against a looong wall. The whole thing is so backwards it boggles my mind.

I enjoyed it.