Tsu's Ultimate tier list (top Jp player )

Why even put Banjo and DQ dude on here?

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>And Wario?
a lot of top japanese players tried wario and found success with him. they're not necessarily solo-maining him

Why do the Elevens keep trying to push the "Mega Man is top tier" narrative when it's always been one or two players propping it up?

Kameme won Umebura Japan Major, Japan's biggest event yet for Ultimate, with Megaman and Wario. Wario's also been frequently a secondary counterpick to a few of Japan's top players who have found success with him.

Just wondering what he's got that is so good. I enjoy playing him but never go "aw fuck yeah time to wreck people" when I play him.

Down-b forces respect after a certain point in the match, great aerial game, lots of options... really all it takes

oh if you're talking about from pure character-driven perspective, then ultimate's engine really favors wario while in smash 4, it was basically everything against him. plus, fart is still retarded as ever

Wario's pretty damn reliable. Crossups with his aerials for a lot of safety, a non commital command grab to punish shield as well as UpThrow at Low%, UpAir combos and juggles go about 40+%, insanely low% confirms from UpTilt to Waft, can still finish the Stock if needs be to keep the Waft with confirms like Down Tilt to Buffered Dash Attack.

Hm. I see. I enjoy using him but I never really looked into his more advance techniques. I never really knew what his good KO options are since uair doesn't seem as stupid broken as it once was.

Why is Ganondorf in C tier? From what I've gathered he's considered top of mid tier, possibly low high tier, particularly since Nairo dabbed on Light with him in that tournament

There was indeed that counterpick from Nairo against Light that worked quite well, but since then, there really wasn't much. It's the same for Japan. An unfortunate fact about Ganondorf in Japan is how inconsistent his best player, Gungnir, is: He rarely attends anything at all, despite having proven himself in Ultimate a bit, and back in Smash 4, as the best Ganondorf player in that previous game. All the characters in B Tier have had respectable waves, moreso in Japan for some, but Ganon has not proven himself enough.

Who is Japan's best Luigi?

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a single counterpick win doesn't count much at the end of the day, even if ultimate ganon is better than his previous incarnations (debatably his melee one too). despite having access to some incredible smash attacks, in my opinion, the main problem with his character remains and that is he still is slow as fuck and gets camped out pretty easily

honestly, at this point i just wish his ganon kick would let him go through projectiles and such

why the fuck olimar is still near top tier

Because he's still the same character desu. Just fatter.

I wish Sakurai would buff Bayonetta back to her Smash 4 glory.

It's a tossup between Ron ( Probably the best of the 3, but only has a Luigi secondary that he doesn't use that much ), y0c ( Co-Mained with Greninja ) and Navy. Here's a Link to each of their matches if you're interested
youtube.com/watch?v=ZU3W1vrshz8
youtube.com/watch?v=zDB-4mXQYUI
youtube.com/watch?v=lJM1qSf3gec

>honestly, at this point i just wish his ganon kick would let him go through projectiles and such

I used to think this too but I find heavies already unbearable to play online and the majority of people don't go to locals or anything.

Wait, Pac is actually good?

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I really want to get into Pokemon Trainer but that character is kind of hard to get good at when you don't have a switch and all my playtime is at the local weekly we have here so I can't practice.

you're playing a character with a build in nuke that builds up over time. the one thing that really good wario's have started to realize is that you need to camp sometimes

How do I find locals? I wanna try it at least once

what area are you in

Thanks, maybe I can learn some shit from them.

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While not relevant directly to your question; the placement being high is likely to the whooping the Nips got while in Socal the past few weeks by Elegent and Tsu was one of them. (Note: Raito the Duck Hunt also lost but then won against him)
There are Nip Luigi's but prior to this list, none of them really have him rated that high.

He's been good for a while, user

what's the next big smash tournament? do smash players go to CEO?

Who here Comfy tier?

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Georgia

Rural Europe

This is why I don't take Japanese tier lists too serious, they're too heavily influenced by weeklies, good source for sleeper characters though. PT isn't top 3 in any universe, Hikaru would get his ass eaten at any major and Zackray's PT isn't even as good as Tweek's day 2 PT is. All the Japanese players who actually do well at majors play characters who are generally considered top tier in the west too.

They do, so that's the next big event. About 1100 attendants for Ultimate singles as we speak at CEO 2019. To keep things about Japan, the main Japanese talent attending is Raito ( Best Duck Hunt in the world ), Protobanham ( A solid Lucina player who got 2nd at Umebura Japan Major ), Umeki ( Among the best Peach players of Japan ) and Abadango ( Hasn't really been doing great in Japan or at all but a decent threat )

>I used to think this too but I find heavies already unbearable to play online and the majority of people don't go to locals or anything.
yeah yeah i know, i remember sakurai commenting on how much ganon gets used online in ultimate so they're definitely keeping an eye on the casual audience too

>D tier
i don't think jiggs is gonna make it bros...

incin is so fun to play

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Better than having literally no buffs in 4

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It's deinitely to be taken with a grain of salt, since there is a bit of bias regarding the experience of players and even sometimes matchups. Most of Japan's cmmonly known sleeper characters are still usually around Mid to High Tier, with a few exceptions. I don't think anyone is really calling Raito, Zaki or YB major winners, but they do have the potential to prove themselves on a grander scale & cause upsets.

Why is Robin not D-tier?

not to mention that some japan tournaments have bo1 pools too

> ZSS that high
> pichu that low
> robin that high
> mac that high
> ken that low
> luigi above mario
what a fucking retard

Why would Luigi be below Mario and why would Pichu not be that high?

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Most don't. You may have been misled by the fact that they use Round Robins for Round 1 Pools. It is indeed BO1 there, but given the fact for most Tournaments, the 3 best players come out, there is little room for good players to get left. By the time RR is over & Top 92 ( Usually that's the number ) has been constitued, it's all BO3, and BO5 for the finals. Actually, that's the main issue I'd have here: BO5 is not spread out enough, but given the constraint Japanese TOs have to oblige, I guess it's only possible for the biggest events

Putting Ken in B-tier seems generous enough.

ZSS being that high is ridiculous, if it's because of results he should have bumped Joker up too just because Leo exists.

Why puff is so low?

Joker isn't that good.

Disjoints fuck her up and she dies if you fart in her direction

Hasn't been able to do anything at all probably. I think it's fair to say Puff is at a disadvantage against most characters who have better spacing tools ( The awkwardness of Back Air really doesn't help ) or means of playing safe, whether it be just throwing buttons & disjoints at Puff who can't respond because of her floatiness or more limited mobility than you'd think, or by having potent Out of Shield, as Puff is pretty bad at dealing with Shield still. ( Floatiness diminishes empty hops into grabs and make them more reactable, Grab Reward is abysmal, Shieldbreak mixups are pretty meh )
I do think it's unreasonable too, however, along with Marss' high peak, there's the exhaustivity of ZSS mains in Japan to consider as well. A variety of them do quite well in Nipland.

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Neither is ZSS is my point.

Requesting Banjo tearing Incineroar apart, limb by limb, and leaving a bloody chunk where Incineroar used to stand.

luigi has a shit recovery and is really inconsistent in results, mario has a solid combo game and has much better results so far. Pichu is top tier just as Pikachu, saying pikachu is way better than pichu is delusional.

Saved

Strong punish game, great aerial mobility, waft, good recovery with the bike

Requesting buff banjo and buff roar doing this

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How is shulk A tier?

Muh Nado Arts

>waaah their ranking should be higher or lower, what shit list!!!

Post your GSP or your opinion doesn't matter

>thinking GSP actually matters

But are there people getting good results with him?

You could even add this with roar saying "Mach Rider is dead too" and "Where is Edrik?" Joseph as the Grinch would be good too
I hate having these ideas when I can barely draw a circle well

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>Ness
>lower/mid tier

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Not that I know of. I don't watch competitive Smash like I used to.

reddit.com/r/smashbros/wiki/facebook

inb4 >reddit

why? both of them are in you stupid rosterfag

>both new characters in bottom tier

sounds like he played them once and jumped to conclusions.

Oh deity who may or may not be listening. Please bless me with buffs to my boy Ridley. Thank you, amen.

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I'm honestly glad there's a huge "mid tier" pool.

Get ready for another indirect nerf or Final Smash buff, bro

The fireballs thing really pissed me off at first but since everyone was hit with that bat it felt more like a buff to everyones shields so I wasn't as pissed. I still think it's a bit bullshit that Ridley can smack a bitch a hundred times with his normal attacks and not break the damn thing, or worse yet tipped skewer, but it is what it is.

Those FS changes can eat shit though. You use that thing like 1% of the time at most. Hoping he gets at least a few substantial tweaks before the updates stop. He's fun as fuck and feels good but also feels hindered by some stupid design choices that could totally be ironed out. I don't expect his up b to be changed but if he was faster in the air and maybe had another jump it wouldn't be as big a deal. Have they ever added an extra jump to characters via patches before?

>Have they ever added an extra jump to characters via patches before?
Nope

Is Pokemon Trainer actually that good? I hear about them performing on the top. How do pros play them anyways? Is it just majority Ivysaur and switching to Charizard to jump?

It is mostly Ivysaur. Squirtle sometimes depending on the matchup at Low% to get guarranted combos, mostly on big targets. Ivysaur anywhere else usually. If the opponent is out of the reach of Vine Whip kill confirms or the stage/matchup justifies it, some may switch to Charizard at High% to kill with his potent Out of Shields.

I meant to say I never hear about them performing. Anyways I wish Charizard was good.

Japan likes zoners and Ness can be aggro as fuck.
But then there's Lucas...

>DDD universally overtaking DK in these tier lists
we are coming back bros

What the fuck happened between Lucina and Marth? It's revolting.

It's hard to land a consistent tip with Marth and the tools Lucina have are good

>make tipper hitbox miniscule
>make overall game faster so it's harder to space
>make non-tippers almost worthless
>make balanced blade have insane damage and knockback, moreso on the spammable moves such as aerials
Simply put, not worth the effort.

>K.Rool that low
What happened bros? Why is my crocoboy so shit tier?

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So it looks like Marth is in need of another tipper lenghtening like in SMash 4, eh? Only this time it should be exclusive for him rather than boosting Lucina even further.

But really how could they get this thing past development? You'd think that of any character, you'd have an easier time comparing echos with each other. All other echo fighters have their mirror right next to them, even Chrom and Roy who also have a hitbox gimmick.

>Doc forever mid
I'm fine with this outcome considering how trash he was in 4, but can I have an actual recovery please?

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Should I just play Megaman if I want a really defensive and good character?

Sure but others can do that too

Guess there's always the possibility of a first time. Even just air speed and jump distance would help though. Have those ever changed?

His tricks are strong but easily avoidable if you know what they are. He's only dangerous if you've never fought him before.

The it's the price he must pay for being really good online.

Such as? I know Snake and the Links are options, but I think I'm just overthinking how important tiers are too.

But he's not even good online.

Wolf is much more defensive than a lot of people think he is and he has arguably the best projectile in the game.

If you like the character sure.

This is dabuz list in comparison

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>sheik and bayonetta over YL

Dabuz has always had this weird believe the shoto's are broken.

That's fair. I'll check him out more, thanks.

2bh they got big buffs

Dabuz deliberately misrepresents things to get public opinion in his favour. You shouldn't believe anything he says.

who does the best tier lists in general? i feel they're all ass because a single person can't do one properly, you need multiple opinions

Who's the biggest brain viable character?

I don't get people who put Joker second when no one but Leo has results. I get he's really good but I don't buy him being second best or you'd see him far more often already, Leo could win with any decent character.

>zss top 1
how?

shulk is the hardest character in the game to play perfectly but also probably the best character in the game if you can (you can't)

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>have to master dial storage to play him perfectly
yeah no thank you
peach/daisy or pac-man

Robin!

Shut the fuck up. Joker does have results, has top players playing him, pros putting him on top tier and other crap. And Leo doesn't win with any decent character. He failed to make Marth work and he never brought out his Greninja even when he picked him up.

Who else but Leo is getting significant enough results for him to be considered the second best character in the game exactly?

He may not be top tier but there's no way he's shit when Ganondorf spawns after being hit three times and said summon keeps the speed and reach of that gangly assholes legs. Then you've got decent frame data, a projectile DOT, and recovery that can save him from near the blast zone, a counter that spawns Ganondorf sooner, and you have a character that's just fucking annoying to deal with while also being really good.

I don't think he's shit at all though? I think he's top tier just not second best in the game, there's a difference there.

>pikachu
pichukeks on suicide watch