Do you have hope that Sonic Team, now that Mania was a success and Forces failed...

gameinformer.com/2019/06/20/sonic-team-says-2021-is-the-next-big-year-for-sonic

>“2017 was a big year for Sonic,” Iizuka says. “The next big year for Sonic is 2021. That’s the 30-year anniversary for Sonic. We are now preparing.”

>I told him that in past anniversary years, like 2011 where we got Sonic Generations, Sega released big milestone games to mark the occasion. When I ask if that might be the case for 2021, he chuckles and lets out a soft, "Maybe."

Are you excited for Sonic Generations 3?

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it's just painful to see a world like Sonic's, full of unique characters, great environments and interesting lore get completely mishandled by a bunch of incompetent hacks. i really don't want to stay on this sinking ship any further, but i'm way attached to the franchise. this feels very like an abusive relationship

Calm down, it's just a videogame.

no, it's my wife

Why do people act like Forces is any worse than Lost World.

Lost World was painful to play. Forces was just eh.

honestly, a disappointing game is much worse to swallow than a shitty game

Because Lost World had platforming and good aesthetics.

>Do you have hope that Sonic Team
no

Why don’t they just make a modern style game with no gimmicks

>platforming
it was awful
>good aesthetics
jump into spikes

Iizuka will never be forced out, so no. He's going to keep doing dumb, tone-deaf shit and there might be a Mania 2 if we're lucky. That's the maximum you should get hyped for, anything else and you're kidding yourself.

>Iizuka
god help us all

wasn't sonic mania a fan game or something? how much input did sonic team have in mania?

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Probably no budget. Having to create giant maps that vary in looks for a super fast character must be pretty expensive.

They helped put in the Mean Bean Machine boss, and Iizuka came up with the name. Thats it.

No. They're full of fucking idiots.
Sonic Forces was built off the Sonic Lost World gameplay engine. Yes, you read that correctly.
Instead of building off Sonic Generations, which already had a fully functioning gameplay engine and using the Hedgehog Engine to light the game (using it to its fullest extent like in Unleashed, except now it would run at 60fps) they decided to butcher Sonic Lost World's gameplay engine and make "Hedgehog Engine 2" which is barely different from 1.
It's the reason Sonic controls like arse in that game. His acceleration is whack because running at full speed is functionally identical to pressing the run button in Sonic Lost World. It's also why he can't drift, and his boost is nothing like the previous game.

Sonic Team has had all its talent poached, and they don't have the time nor money to make something halfway decent.
I doubt any future 3D Sonic games will be any better than Forces.

Sonic Team lost the source code for Generations.

New sonic rush never :(

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how the fuck did that happen in this day and age? holy shit

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And Unleashed and Colours too?
Would explain why there's no PC port of those 2.

Good question but I think it has something to do with the restructuring and downsizing of Sega. Shit like this tends to happen during this process.

Because they remade the Unleashed/Generations engine to make Lost World when the Nintendo exclusivity deal occurred

To be fair the same thing happened for the PC port of Saints Row 2, which is why that port has never been fixed.

I prefer them making shitty Sonic games than keep dragging Puyo Into the mud like they have done with the franchise since 2003
Again, Shut up Boco.

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Unleashed doesn't have a port mostly because it was a part of that purge a while back.

Except the purge lasted all of like..a year.

They could have but even if they didn't. when you look at the credits side-by-side there's almost no-one from the Unleashed/Colors/Generations era left on staff. The Sonic Team of now is comprised of people that joined around Lost World or later, even if they still have the code I doubt there's anybody there that can make actual use of it.

Yes sir...

People still bought Forces though. So no.

That’s retarded. They could just make sonic really small so that the world doesn’t have to be as big.

Sonic is Pokemon-tier, they can throw literally anything out there and get guaranteed zoomer buys. Hell I know enough people that bought it 'ironically', so there's that bullshit too.

I fully expect another horrible game.

Why on Earth would you think they learned their lesson? They feel the need to reinvent themselves everytime because the last thing they want to do is make an actual Sonic game. They had a good track with Unleashed/Colors/Generations, and then they fucked it up with Lost Worlds where you spent 90% of the game not playing Sonic based platforming level design and instead got some C-Tier indie platformer rip off. Then there was Forces which was it's own set of a fucking mess.

SEGA just needs to shelve the franchise for about 10 years and dissolve Sonic Team. As it stands, that studio is nothing but a rotational staff of interns that lack vision and lead by an incompetent producer that doesn't know what to do with the franchise and let's this trash team tarnish the franchise legacy further.

What comes up, must come down is the Sonic Team motto nigga.

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>J-Just make him small
Are you perhaps retarded?

what's the point of buying a game you know will be bad ironically? is it like, they gifted out sonic forces on steam with a troll message?

>Are you excited for Sonic Generations 3?
No. The creativity and new unique locations for the franchise went out the window with Generations. The last couple of games were nothing but rehashing old locations over and over again. Even the beloved Mania did the same shit. Fucking Team Sonic Racing is 80% recycled content from the last 2 games and 3 stages dedicated to Rooftop Run. Iizuka is banking too fucking hard on nostalgia and it's annoying as fuck.

too good to be real, the mindset of many sonic fans is ''I don't care if it is good or not, it's sonic and i'll buy it''

>Because Lost World had platforming and good aesthetics.
The platforming in Lost World was garbage, most of the time you're going around doing alternative objectives that have 0 platforming or some God awful forces mechanics like navigating the sage as a wisp, a stealth mission or runninf around on top of a ball or actually being a snowball. The aesthetics are also shit since most of the game is just a recolor of the first zone. Lost World is trash. Don't you ever complement it again.

Everything had to go through Sonic Team's approval. They couldn't do any wild deviations. No one is going to say anything and they're all going to claim they had freedom, but I assure you that was not the case.

Couldn't have put it better

>3D Platforming sections in Unleashed
>Handles like a dream, every bump feels right and the controls are nice and precise
>3D Platforming in Forces
>why even bother

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The least that they could be doing at this point is bringing some of the older modern Sonic games to new platforms.

Sonic Colors is exclusively on Wii, Sonic Unleashed was only on PS3/360, with a different verison on Wii/PS2, and Sonic Generations was also only PS3/360, although it also had a PC release.

I'd adore if Colors and Generations got a Switch release, but Colors in particular needs a re-release on anything at all, it's a solid game.

Not at all.
They are clueless as to what works with Sonic and that's proven constantly with every release(aside from Generations).
The right thing to do would be to shut down the entire studio and give it to Evening Star. Or really anyone else who actually cares/knows what they're doing.

>nothing would change
Tails would've been killed by fake Chaos.

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>and using the Hedgehog Engine to light the game (using it to its fullest extent like in Unleashed, except now it would run at 60fps)
Generations downgraded the lighting in many ways. The game also sure as fuck didn't run at 60fps on consoles.
>MUH PC!
Yeah yeah, mustard race and all that shit. Unleashed would run at 60 too if that shit had a port.

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You don't have a single source to back this up. Stop spreading this dumb horse shit.

>Are you excited for Sonic Generations 3?
Generations was a fun one-off novelty of fan favourite locations, if only we knew it would signal the end of creative level and world design going forward.
The last thing the series needs right now is even heavier nostalgia pandering. No more Green Hill Zone for fucks sakes.
A Sonic Mania 2 is unlikely at this point, since Christian Whitehead has formed his own development studio and is likely working on their own projects based on their expertise in retro games the special Head Cannon Games Engine.

It was mainly the character creation stuff, people being all "I can't wait to make my own edgy hedgehog!" They managed to capture some of the post-ironic crowd that watch 06 Let's Plays all day, essentially.

Headcannon is Stealth's Engine. You're thinking of Retro Engine.

>The right thing to do would be to shut down the entire studio and give it to Evening Star.
They didn't even hire the autist that nailed the Sonic physics for them back in Sonic CD. Before Tax brought Stealth onboard, Retro Engine had a passable recreation of Sonic physics.

>There will never be a Sonic game that looks and sounds as good as Unleashed ever again
Even the generic god monster looked good

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>Generations was a fun one-off novelty

>Several games later
>We're still stuck with in Nostalgia Zone, Act 4

I want this to end

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So what's coming out next year as the 2020 Olympics crossover is this November? The franchise hasn't missed a year since it started. But now that I think about it, maybe the Evening Star project will tie into the Sonic 2021 game like Mania did with Forces.

>that line modern sonic gives to classic sonic about looking forward to his future adventures

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I wasn't talking about PC. I meant that the same engine used on the 360/PS3 would run much smoother on ONE/PS4.
I know Generations downgraded the lighting, hence why I mention Unleashed.
Why did you even bother typing any of that out?

It's the last time Sonic Team both had a budget and people worth a damn working for them.

It was also the last game before Graff and Pontac.

I have hope. I firmly believe that if they really tried they could make something great.

I don't think it'll happen though. They definitely have the potential but..

Or he could stop being a bitch and do to it what he did to Chaos 4.

Well they be taking their time this time around, So there's hope. There was that restructuring at Sega Japan too.

Also Morio Kishimoto needs to go, seriously

>It was also the last game before Graff and Pontac.
The games' writing would still be awful without them. Forces' plot was mostly handled in Japan. They just localized stuff.

I "hope" Evening Star and Stealth come back to make Mania 2, but I wouldn't even be mad if they decide to branch out.
Even Sonic Team got tired of making nothing but Sonic games back in the 90's. Maybe they just need a break?

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>It was also the last game before Graff and Pontac.
This is what hurts me the most. I'm going through Unleashed again and all the characters actually had their personalities and motivations in check. Ever since Colors, they flanderized the fuck out of everyone. Sonic is now a shitty Spider-Man knock off with forced one liners, except where Spider-Man is self aware that not all of them hits and does it just to annoy people, the new games write it in the way that Sonic is an ace fucking comedian.

>Well they be taking their time this time around, So there's hope.
The same thing was literally said before Forces' release. There's no reason to look forward to anything modern Sonic Team is developing.

Yes, and they made it worse. The original script didn't have the "Sonic was tortured for 6 months" line.

Classic Sonic is to the Sonic series what Kanto is to the Pokemon series.

Yes. But I'd rather have bad writing that is completely sincere than BADLY MCNOSE HAIR and the trasheap that was Lost World's story.

>Sonic is an idiot causes shit to go down
>doesn't trust Tails
>more shit happens
>lol jk

>Well they be taking their time this time around
Sonic Forces "took its time" too. The studio is creatively bankrupt. No amount of time in the world will fix the root cause issue.

They did spent about 3 years on Forces or something like that.
But 2 of those years were spent fucking around with a shitty upgrade to a lighting engine that already worked fine.

Who?

Forces' director.

I liked Unleashed's writing, cheesy as it was. Would have much rather they continued in that style but with it being considered such a failure internally they probably think going wacky is the only option.

Naw, I actually enjoyed the basic premise of Forces. Mortar Canyon was hype as fuck from a story point of view. There were a lot of little moments like that in the game, and the localized version legitimately made it worse.

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>The original script didn't have the "Sonic was tortured for 6 months" line.
The original Japanese script that leaked had Eggman planning an public execution for Sonic on the Death Egg and Tails deciding to let Chaos 0 kill him so he could meet Sonic in the afterlife. Pontac and Graff are definitely bad, but whoever was in charge of Forces' narrative is honestly worse. Also, considering Forces' producer talked about how hard it was to get the localized narrative straight this time around compared to past games, I imagine P&G's localization was likely based on a older script than the final one. I mean, it's not like the talk about war and torture fits in with the general tone of P&G's previous writing attempts for the series.

I really enjoyed the OST too. Are Sonic Team's composers the only ones that stay

How does forces look worse than a 10 year old game for xbox 360

>but whoever was in charge of Forces' narrative is honestly worse.

Same guy who wrote 06.

>But I'd rather have bad writing that is completely sincere
I'd rather just having good writing, but since neither Sonic Team nor Pontac and Graff are able to give us that, they should just stop with the focus on narratives in general.

As long as Sega keeps viewing Sonic as "that franchise we have that dumb gaijins keep buying" instead of their mascot IP, Sonic Team will never get better.

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Okay, the tails bit is shit, but Eggman planning to execute Sonic publicly is fucking great.

good. fuck modern tails

as well as Colors and Lost World. the reason he is stuck with the role is because Colors was the first well recieved game after the dark ages. let's just hope Forces gets him demoted

>Naw, I actually enjoyed the basic premise of Forces.
>Eggman finally takes over the world but most of the focus is on Mephiles 2.0 instead and the world itself doesn't even look like it's been conquered properly
The basic premise of Eggman winning is fine on paper, but Forces' execution of it is downright awful.

>Eggman planning an public execution for Sonic on the Death Egg
To be fair, this is the same guy who held a 12 year old girl at gunpoint once

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>The original Japanese script that leaked had Eggman planning an public execution for Sonic on the Death Egg and Tails deciding to let Chaos 0 kill him so he could meet Sonic in the afterlife
please give me a source to this

>produce a game that's at least as good in terms of quality as Sonic Generations

Is that how it is? Is it to a point that Generations is considered good? They completely botched classic physics in Generations and then made them worse in Forces. The bar is so low that anything produced that isn't offensively bad should be accepted and that's sad.

Bring Yoshihisa Hashimoto back.

I don't care if he works for Square now.

honestly, Pokémon and Sonic are very similar in terms on fandom, producers and trops

>but Eggman planning to execute Sonic publicly is fucking great
That sounds like teenage fanfic shit. A properly written Eggman would put Sonic on eternal public display in a glass bubble as a trophy of his victory and also to constantly remind Sonic of how he lost.

I don't think that guy even works in the game industry anymore.

He was the head of development for Luminous Studio.

NO.

Sonic Team can't make a good game to save their life.

I doubt they'll get their act together. But I hope they keep making cute Mania cartoons, I'll support those while I wait for Utopia.

"Public execution" sounds edgy on paper but it could've easily been handled well enough were it doesn't feel out of place for the cartoon tone they're going for.

>Eggman brings Sonic to some colosseum in the capitol city
>Sonic is thrown into the ring with some fuckhuge robots
>Sonic either beats them in a boss battle or outsmarts them in a cutscene, either way he escapes and now has to escape from the city

Basically what they already did in Forces but without Zavok.

>Classic Sonic shoehorned in once again

Classic Sonic is normal Sonic now.

Let's be real. The next Sonic game is going to be on par with Sonic Lost World's quality. Good graphics, decent music, a bunch of new experimental shit that clearly wasn't thought out, no physics whatsoever when on a slope, and of course new wisps.

>Bring Yoshihisa Hashimoto back.
People keep saying this but a lot of Unleashed's negatives were because of Hashimoto. The excessive padding (e.g. the Werehog's existence and the forced medal collecting), the weird rpg mechanics, the focus on QTEs, and the large amount of hubs where you had to walk around and talk to people were all because of him. And I'm not saying these elements on their own are necessarily bad, but most of them have no real place in a Sonic title and do nothing but constantly interrupt the general pace of the game.

Hashimoto's probably fine for rpg adventure games, but not for Sonic. Let Generation's director do another Sonic game instead. His arcade-like approach to game design fits Sonic better.

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Just give me Sonic Jam 2 on the retro engine already

How fucking hard is it to make Sonic Adventure 3 with tighter movement controls?

>"Public execution" sounds edgy on paper but it could've easily been handled well enough were it doesn't feel out of place for the cartoon tone they're going for.
Forces' producer helped write the script for 06. There was never going to be an instance where that plot point would have been handled "well enough".

Sonic 06 pretty much killed any chances of Sonic Team making an Adventure style game ever again.

Any chance of Oshima, Yasuhara and Naka coming back?

New one anyway. People swear there are rumors of a remake of 1.

I'm pretty sure they all left Sega for a reason.

>Ohshima
No
>Yasuhara
No
>Yuji Naka
Fuck no