Someone explain to me the appeal of fighting games

Fuck you, darkstalker instant death infinite combos exists, and who wants to learn a genre when where everyone else is on the learning curve looks like they're there, because of depth perception. We need more fighters with lots of resets, like soul calibur and smash, so that people can become sick of them, and find something where the upper end of the skill ceiling is more fleshed out.

Combos are just maximized damage. Getting that one hit in is usually hard enough, and if the player actually sat down and learned his character, he absolutely deserves to win.

I'll admit, that was some hyperbole. They don't always kill you. But it's a shit load of damage that, as best I can tell, I'm just expected to sit and take as punishment for not avoiding the combo in the first place. And sometimes it does just kill you.
>If the player actually sat down and learned his character, he absolutely deserves to win.
I'm not disputing that, necessarily. It makes some sense. But then, what are you supposed to do? Just hope you have more practice than the other guy? Does that make fighting games a solved game; whoever knows more about their character might as well have won the minute the match starts?

FPS games are pretty solved then.

>But then, what are you supposed to do?
Literally git gud. In most fighting games you can do fairly well just off fundamentals. If you got hit, your fundamentals are not on point.

>Does that make fighting games a solved game; whoever knows more about their character might as well have won the minute the match starts?
Not at all. Learning your character is just one part of the equation, you need knowledge of the opponent's character as well. Then there's also the matter of the player behind the character. That's what makes fighting games so exciting. Rarely will you come across two players who play their character the same way.

that's why games like Samsho and Smash for the most part are great, they rely very little on combos and focus almost entirely on the neutral game and follow-ups/oki

>The only one I know of that lowered hitstun so you could escape combos and actually get back to playing the game was Braw
In the version of Guilty Gear I played, you could use a special block that could be used while stunned. you could get out of shitty spot as long as you had some meter. The mechanics to the problems you have exist, they're just usaully not a part of the artists design.

>dominate the player the entire round
>one slip up costs you the win anyway
Nah, fuck that.

You are completely disregarding the amount of playing it takes to actually get that one hit. It's not as easy to get something concrete as you might think, and half your hits probably don't confirm into that sicc combo you practiced for 50 hours. Most of your combos probably do 20-30 percent at most, which is plenty of room to turn neutral around and change the game.

if you fuck up you deserve to lose

Hmmm. I'm not so sure about that. You have options in FPS. Run and reposition; take cover, coordinated with squadmates. The goals are also different. If you die in most FPSs, it's not necessarily over. Objective and killcount-based victories seem more standard.

And you can't get knocked into a second bullet by the first, too quick to block, dodge, or evade, and then chained ad infinitum. You aren't made helpless in an FPS.
Which is why Overwatch sucks, it's full of stuns and shit where you wait around for the enemy to kill you.
>That's what makes fighting games so exciting. Rarely will you come across two players who play their character the same way.
You know, that speaks to me. I think that answers my question. My problem, then, is that I'm not good enough to see that appeal, because I'm still learning the fundamentals and the matchups. So maybe you need to BE good to see the appeal—you need the mechanical skill to get into the mind games that make them so fun.
From an outside perspective, the autistic button combos look more appealing. They're flashy and a display of skill. But that's not the point, necessarily.
I'm still not sure what you're supposed to do outside of "don't get hit so someone better doesn't dominate you while you wait to play the game again" but that comes with learning how to play at a decent level.

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this

Not every fighting games are marvel 2. Some fighting games are heavily combo centric while others may focus more on footsies and shit.

When you play some crazy tag team anime fighter, it's not exaggeratin when you say he can land one hit and kill you from that, but regardless of the game, 100% touch of death combos are hard as balls to execute even for the boomer pros. And one wrong move turning the tide of the match doesn't apply only to fighting games, that shit goes for just about everything competitive both online n irl.

Combos aren't as important as using normals anyway

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>Some fighting games are heavily combo centric while others may focus more on footsies and shit.
What are some games that rely less on combos and juggling and more closer-range back-and-forth, footsies, or mind games?
>For Honor might not count as a fighting game, I wouldn't know, but it does look appealing

It's amazing how you can type that out and not immediately realize how it applies more to every fighting game that you are defending.

No, a match should determine the player with the most skill. There's a difference between winning by demonstrating skill continuously versus winning off one single stray hit. The latter means fuck all. It's not balanced, it's straight up pussy shit.

Except it doesn't?

Combos exist in fps. Hit em with rocket xx launch em in the air xx airshot. I'd say fps games are more "solved" than fighting games are because in fps a skilled veteran has so much more advantage over less skilled players than it is in fighting games. Not to mention techs in fps are usually way more convoluted than fighting game techs and shit like reflexes and reaction speed which are beyond your control are so important in the genre.

In fighting games you at least get a fighting chance, in fps you usually die in 2 hits in couple seconds.

you're describing touch of death airdashers, and yes, I agree, if a macro can win the game for you off a stray hit, it's a garbage game, there are very few instances in Smasho and Smash where a single hit decides the match unlike those games, the one-hits and attacks that do 3/4 of a healthbar in Samsho have whole seconds of start-up time, if you get hit by them you deserve to lose.

>But it's a shit load of damage that, as best I can tell, I'm just expected to sit and take as punishment for not avoiding the combo in the first place.
Yes, it is, what's the problem here? Like the other guy said, getting that first hit in his hard enough, it's not like you usually just walk up and start doing combos. They usually involve some sort of setup. Or you wait for the other guy to fuck up, then punish them. It's a risk vs reward thing, you can just go for a less damaging single hit, or a more risky more damaging combo. More risky as in more room for execution error. Yes, great players probably have an arbitrarily small rate of error on the combos. But why is that bad? Just because 2 people have reached the same level of combo execution and memory excellence, that doesn't mean they're both equally knowlegable and skilled at actually setting up these combos, putting their opponent into a position to be hit by these combos, it anything else for that matter. Fighting games are way more than just combos, I don't think you understand that. There's way more that goes into them, and being skilled at these other things that aren't combos is as equally important as knowing the combos themselves, and why no 2 players are identical just because they know combos.

I play Tekken and Smash so my opinion is tied to these two games but the intense focus on neutral game is what draws me to them. In Tekken very rarely does a stray hit convert into big damage unless you’re a retard and get hit by a stray launcher or snake edge

street fighter

Then maybe I'm just hoping for better matchmaking, then, because I sure do get my ass juggled a lot. My issue's mostly that there's no counterplay once it all starts. If your prediction messed up, it seems like that's it, as best I can tell. You don't escape a combo, you hope the guy comboing you messes up.

>So maybe you need to BE good to see the appeal
Not really. You can have equally as much fun just mashing it out with the other players who have a more relaxed view on fighting games. You press buttons, stuff happens - awesome. The real fun comes from learning, though. Not just combos, but mechanics, the properties of certain moves and reading your opponent during the match, adapting to whatever he throws at you. It's not that you have to BE good in order to enjoy fighting games - you need to have the will to BECOME good.

I feel every game being overly violent appeals to some sort of instinctive shit from our ancestors.
So people who play a lot of FPS probably had ancestors who hunted a lot, melee-combat games like character action appeal to people who fought in ancient wars and the like.
Fighting appeal to people who probably had ancestors who got in a lot of fights or whatever.

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There are characters in For Honor that can effectively do the same as comboing you to death if you screw up.

the appeal is that if you lose, you have no one else to blame but yourself so if you have the right mindset, its the ultimate genre for making you push yourself to get better at something

Street Fighter.

For Honor is a fun game, by the way. As long as you don't take it too seriously.

What kind of games are u playin dude

Well, fuck.
That's a second vote for Street Fighter. Definitely take a look, then.
It's strange, cuz that both appeals to me, and doesn't. Meritocracy is good, and it sucks to be at the bottom. I'm a very reactive player/person, so maybe that's my problem with shit I can't escape in games. It feels like I can't win because of the way I approach things. If the combo is already started, you can't avoid it, you need to predict and avoid it.

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Smash

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>I'm a very reactive player/person, so maybe that's my problem with shit I can't escape in games
ur probably right. Not every genre is for everyone, it doesnt mean you have shit taste if u cant get into something

>smash
>fighting game

It's weird, because I enjoy prep in RPGs...but then the situation goes
>present problem
>hope you prepped for it
>if not, improvise
>solve problem
The problem is presented, but you have time to react. Compare to fighting, where if you can't predict you're boned.
But thanks, user. That makes me feel a lot better.

I used to be really into smash but after I started playing fighting games I just cant go back to that shit. The combos in smash are so fuckin braindead man. Down throw xx uair xx uair xx up b. Not to mention there's no commitments to movements at all.

Seconding this. I try not to be mad that a genre practically designed for competition is overshadowed by mobas or even card games. People prefer to watch and play those, and they are not necessarily worse people because of it. That's just how it is.

How the fuck can you care about fighting games enough to try them and make this thread, but NEVER played Street Fighter before?

>>>Reddit

My guess: by being mostly into Nintendo games and thus following Smash while fighting games sort of hover around whenever a tournament goes down. Some would prefer to shitpost, maybe OP has done that in the past. Instead, curiosity got the better of him eventually.

Stop doing unsafe moves and getting hit by 17 frame launch moves that lead to 60% dmg. Also learn 60% dmg combos and how to punish so that when you do get the opportunity you know what to do. Basically stop posting on 4channel and get good

>implying Smash is played the same way as traditional fighting games and isn't in its own genre of "platform fighter"

shut up and play melty blood

I only had Nintendo shit growing up, so I never had the opportunity. I've dabbled in Mortal Kombat and Injustice, though.
Pretty much this one.
That's exactly my issue! So it might be a Smash thing more than a fighting games in general thing?

if ur not someone willing to watch videos and look up frame data then in the long run, fighting games arent a genre for you cos you'll just hit a wall

>imply that Platform Fighter is somehow not a Fighter

>Pretty much this one.
My reads are on fucking point.

This concept goes for pretty much every game with a player versus player element. Think of it: if you're playing a game where you can always react, no one would ever make the first move. Every game needs a way for someone to take the initiative and be rewarded for it if done properly.

smash is a lot easier to get into then other fighting games simply by virtue that it doesnt have complex inputs, but its still a fighting game

Smash bros is hardly a "fighting game" in the traditional sense. It's not comparable at all to other games like street fighter. Just because a game has people punching and kicking each other doesn't make it a "fighting game". This is coming from someone who loves both Smash and Street Fighter.

Hmm. That does make sense. Nobody would ever initiate contact if it were easy to counter.

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>So it might be a Smash thing more than a fighting games in general thing?
Mindlessly throwing out shit will either leave open a large window for a counter or make you predictable, resulting in your opponent shutting you down pre-emptively. Most normals leave the attacker at a slight disadvantage on block, and those that don't will push the opponent back out of their reach and effectively reset the neutral. Mindlessly throwing out specials particularly will get you fucked. Those are usually super unsafe.

at a high enough level any fighting game would become the latter

I dont know if it's a smash problem but imho fighting games are so much better as competitive games than smash has ever been. It's way more user friendly and fair in lot of ways smash isn't.