Which art style is better?

I wanna fuck that rabbit

I own literally every Nintendo console, and beat BotW on Wii U. For a slightly upgraded Xbox 360 the Wii U ran the game okay, but there were jaggies out the ass and certain areas made the game slow down to a crawl. I haven't dug anything past the Switch out of my closet in years because there's no reason to play the games on the original hardware when the PC exists making games look and run way better, not even factoring in mods. but even if I picked up Wind Waker off my shelf and started playing it on a CRT, I think it'd still hold up way better than BotW ever will.

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They both suck. OoT, MM, and TP look way better.

windwaker is one of the cleanest looking games ive ever seen. not even just within nintendo

both iconic and 10/10 in different ways. I prefer botw

woah there, careful where you swing that bait

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BOTW by a long shit, I'm still the only person who probably still hates WW's art style because of how childish it looks.
I didn't play it until dolphin came out.

*shot

Breath of the Wild's style is better but it is also ugly in some places (ie the volcano)

Wind Waker and it's not even close. It probably has the most timeless artstyle in the series to be honest, even if I have some gripes with the actual game.

That being said, Breath of the Wild is my favorite Zelda title.

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Wind Waker looks like a story book, and it always will.

It is absolutely timeless, if that game came out now people would be creaming about how it looks. I think people are taking it for granted because it came out for the Gamecube

>TP

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Neither are favorites but while WW is more charming and expressive I do prefer how much more practical BotW's is across the board.

>TP

Nigga, of all the things to bait with.

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Hit and miss character design aside, I also prefer TP to either game. I've always liked the sheer grandeur of its locales relative to other Zeldas.

This. Wind Waker flooding the series with Toon shit was the one of the worst things to happen to the series.

TP is not in any way, shape or form more grandiose than BotW or even WW's undersea Hyrule.

It's like it's really 2001 again.

Wasn't really flooded, there was never a major headlining entry in that artstyle again. The next most revelant Zelda with that artstyle is Minish Cap, the others are DS games or multiplayer Zeldas.

I like the design of botw link/zelda better but otherwise I thought WW had far more charm in its design.

BotW had a grand landscape but aside from Hyrule Castle (which I adored just like I did TP) not a lot of its locales really spoke to me. But boy, was that landscape vast as all fuck and you could see for days so hey, that was still pretty cool in its own way. As for underwater Hyrule, it's a glorified straight line that didn't reach the potential it could've, though at the very least the unfreezing of Hyrule Castle led to the second coolest action setpiece in the game behind the Savage Labyrinth.

>Wasn't really flooded
There’s like six Toon Zelda games. All of them but MC suck ass.

Wind Waker sucked then, it still sucks now.

And none of them really matter much, which is the point I was making. Who really champions Phantom Hourglass or Four Swords Adventure?

WW has more character, since the characters in BOTW have jackshit for proper emoting really, while BOTW has a better overall environmental design (not that it's hard to do that, given WW is 80% ocean).

BotW looks kinda bland with it's colors
Wind Waker looks great but it runs at a low color mode which causes dithering and it uses distance blur which doesn't look great on such a low resolution

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It was much more fun discovering entirely new islands with unique puzzles compared to "oh look another shrine" in botw.

I won't deny that, but the sheer downtime between significant chunks of content (and required amounts of repetition in this as well as the blatant padding) hamper WW's case. Both games have their significant downs. But i'm just talking art-wise in the first post.

Not that user but I have to disagree and I don't even care much for BotW. Discovering shrines was much more organic than discovering an island that you may or may not even have the item to properly enter, and even then the islands themselves were a solid mix of interesting and disappointing, a good example of the latter being the SIX eye reef islands. One would be fine but there was fucking six of them.

The only downtime between significant content in WW was the triforce hunt which is removed in the remaster. I'm not saying WW is a perfect game though.

Wind Waker. BOTW looks like shit sometimes

Six similar islands compared to over 100 similar shrines is nothing.

I only played MM before but I thought WW looked really cool as a kid.

Islands with puzzles on them are literally just shrines. They are the exact same thing, the only difference is that there isn't an elevator. But it's still "go to a place, and all the places look pretty much the same, solve a puzzle, get a quarter of a heart container."

You realize that the "unique puzzles" on each island were in random holes, right? How is that any different than coming across unique landscapes in BotW and doing unique puzzles inside and outside the shrines dotting the map?

shots fucking fired

this is a good discussion

In replays of WW I really feel the lack of any big islands. It would be cool if there was one that took up multiple squares on the map somewhere with different entry points.

The concept is good but there are so many throw-away islands.

Sir.
I’m triggered

Shrines are also better nearly across the board (definitely some duds in there) and more complex than any "drop down the hole" puzzle / room. The main problem with the shrines is how old the aesthetic / music gets.

They're similar aesthetically, not in content. Well, aside from the combat shrines and those are indeed pretty lame after your second one.

In a way WW created a lot of the same problems that BOTW compartmentalized and tried to "fix" by simply having more of the same thing with less travel inbetween when you think about it. BOTW needed more variety and meat to its bones to justify the excess method of fixing the problem, really.

Plenty of Botw shrines are legitimately identical. WW had the same formula but felt less repetitive nearly two decades apart from Botw. Plus it had ACTUAL dungeons unlike what Botw offers.

No doubt WW isn't a perfect game and I think it could have been fully realized with the engine Botw has today.

Anyone else never bother with shrine chests? Why bother when they're usually weapons?

i bothered, cause sometimes they were pieces of the climber’s outfit, which helped the flow of the game so much

I like reaching chests just for the sake of reaching them, I almost never care what's actually inside of them. They're a thing to collect and its presence taunts me.

Those were all Blessing shrines, i'm talking about optional chests in the normal shrines.

BOTW has an overall better style but it's completely ruined by the stupidly low resolution that the game runs at. It just looks like a blurry mess most of the time, even though the details are there.

Wind Waker's art style works well enough at any resolution.

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if they even had, like, different aesthetic and music depending on what area of the world the shrine was in, that wouldve been cool

the repetition isn't the bad part of shrines. The problem with shrines is one of suspension of disbelief. They are used blatantly as rewards without thought as to how they would actually exist in the world. They are neon Aperture science chambers within the confines of a fantasy game with fairly light magical and technological elements. Breath of the Wild succeeded in creating an open and immersive world but shrines constantly undermine it.

>Plenty of Botw shrines are legitimately identical

Plenty of WW grottos are legitimately identical. Over half of the "puzzles" are just combat rooms where you're righting Darknuts, ChuChus or Bokoblins.

Shrines have more overall variety and it's not even close.

>Plus it had ACTUAL dungeons unlike what Botw offers.

Nice goalpost moving, but WW's dungeons are pure garbage and I'd unironically rather do the Divine Beasts.

Cause you get a little star icon by the shrine on the map and completionists will want all the shrines to have the star.

no, the climber’s gear was never in blessing shrines

I HAD TO GET EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ONE! The damn shrines get a little icon showing a chest next to them on the world map if you get every chest in them. This is obviously just a helpful way to see if you missed anything, but god damn does it set off my completionism.

This is why reward shrines are always the best ones. Shit like Eventide Island, Thyphlo Ruins and the trilogy of labyrinths felt more satisfying and organic than almost any puzzle shrine, and for me the puzzle shrines fell short because they mostly just made me want proper puzzle gauntlets in a proper dungeons instead of 10 minute drip fed sessions.

I mean one was in a major test of strength, which is basically a blessing shrine with extra steps.

UNDERmine it

ha

Wind Waker still holds up after almost 2 decades. There is not a single place in the game that doesn't hold up to the standards set by its art style. The only argument against it is one of personal preference, which is fine, but it's not an objective criticism. Breath of the Wild is already showing cracks. I have no doubt in my mind that 20 years from now it will look dated.

>Over half of the "puzzles" are just combat rooms where you're righting Darknuts, ChuChus or Bokoblins.

That's not true at all and a lot of puzzles required specific side quests to be completed that encouraged exploration. There's definitely enough repitition in WW but Botw's baby tier shrine puzzles aren't any better. For the record I think Botw is mechanically a better game but WW was less monotonous.

>I'd unironically rather do the Divine Beasts.

Confirmed shit taste.

...

fpbp

WW and BotW share one thing in common, in that i can't stand the dungeons

i legit dont understand the hate towards windwaker dungeons. i thought they were great.

i liked botw’s dungeons, but i understand the criticisms towards them.

Yeah they both suck but I'd take WW's actual dungeons over Divine Beasts any day. Botw legit has the worst dungeons ((divine beasts)) out of any Zelda game.

He is right that WW had pretty trash dungeons outside of Wind Temple and maybe the back half of Tower of the Gods. Otherwise, they all felt like third rate clones of OoT dungeons. Divine Beasts weren't great in execution but there's something there in theory. The major sin of Divine Beasts as they were was that they felt far too much like typical shrines but just a little bigger. Add more enemies and make the structure itself a few times larger with the content to match and you'd be on to something. For what its worth Hyrule Castle absolutely, undeniably wrecks every single WW dungeon.

Eventide, Typhlo, and the labyrinths are great; but, they are a prime example of the poor use of shrines. The positive of shrines on paper was quantity by reusing assets but for actual unique content like Eventide why end with a shrine? Ending with more unique content and assets would obviously be better; but, no shrine and just getting a generic chest sells the world better and wastes less time.

My problem with WW's is there's not really any threat in them, and they're filled with tedious stuff (earth temple mirror room, constantly climbing around the wind temple fan).

But WW's is still better than BotW's dungeons. Seriously, what the fuck? It's like they focused on physics puzzles more than having any enemies that weren't OHKO'd guardians.

but, getting no shrine at all and just getting a generic chest instead sells the world better and wastes less time.**

>It's like they focused on physics puzzles more than having any enemies that weren't OHKO'd guardians.
I would say that combat should not be the primary focus people would want out of such a generalized game, a Zelda game with more refined combat would be a better fit. But this is also the result of what happens when you have all the puzzle items from the tutorial to use for the rest of the game, and everything else is just gear or elemental weapons with specific uses after that. It's hard to create interesting or unique puzzles all game long with such a stripped down core design that emphasizes sandbox freedom over depth.

Going through those sections was the equivalent of completing the shrine, the main difference being that it's all coherent within the world structure instead of feeling like you were teleported into some weird futuristic Hyrule for the umpteenth time. I like that shrines had the whole "go underground for a challenge" thing going on, that's how Zelda 1 did it. However, Zelda 1's descents led to more meaningful and coherent content, whereas it almost feels like you stepped into an entirely different game when BotW did it.

Hyrule Caslte is more of a cool place to explore than a real dungeon in Botw and you could cheese it easily right at the beginning of the game in order to get good equips to make most of the games content trivial. Again, Divine Beasts were garbage as this user describes

>That's not true at all

Play the game again. Of all the smaller islands you can sail to (Horshoe Island, Star Island, Islet of Steel, Bomb Island, etc.) most of them just lead to a simple combat room. There are puzzle grottos too, but they're not as common.

>Botw's baby tier shrine puzzles aren't any better

They absolutely are. Better designed puzzles that genuinely work to the game's mechanics, some of which can be solved in multiple ways, are infinitely superior to the "shoot the torch" garbage that WW perpetuated.

BotW is such a different game from past Zeldas that the old way of dungeon design actually wouldn't work for it. Item gating of that caliber stands against a game that tries to be as open as BotW is. I cite Hyrule Castle mostly because I feel it's a great example of how dungeons in a game like BotW SHOULD work. It can't do things the way they did before so exploring massive structures full of dangerous encounters is the best way to go about it and Hyrule Castle is precisely that.

BotW is the best Zelda game other than Link's Awakening; but, in this comparison Wind Waker still wins since despite the puzzles being nearly Metroid tubesz levels of forced, they actually exist within the context of the world unlike BotW which just teleports you to a Portal level.

BotW's dungeons do pretty well with the puzzle aspect but fuck up everything else.
>Essentially no combat
>Boring aesthetics we've seen endlessly by the 3rd and 4th DB
>Forgettable music
>Contained mechanical beast so dungeons felt somewhat small and cramped.
>Slightly modified same boss each time

I've played and finished every 3D Zelda, and if I had to pick any dungeon from any of them to replay right now BotWs would be so far down the list. They wouldn't even break a top 15 for me. I would rather replay either forest dungeon in Wind Waker over any of the BotW dungeons and I hate both of those. But they've got numerous rooms full of color and environments not really found elsewhere in the game, a theme, enemies to fight, puzzles to solve, weird little memorable moments like when you first get covered with all the fuzzy black things that weigh you down, mini bosses and bosses, and a new piece of equipment for your trouble.

I'm not sure what dungeon I would actually play right now if I had to pick one. Probably between the Shadow Temple in OoT, Stone Tower Temple in MM, the mansion in TP, or the Lanaryu Mining Facility or Cistern from SS.

Its a shame SS sucks so bad in it's overworld - that game has a solid lineup of dungeons.

I'm just comparing the gameplay here. Aesthetic stuff is a little more subjective and I'd argue the shrines "fit" the world insofar as they're ancient magitech test chambers for the hero, but you're right that WW's grottos were probably a little more organic.

I don't even hate WW, but let's not act like BotW didn't vastly improve on most of its rather half-baked concepts.

you fucks told me the Tarrey Town sidequest was good, but all i'm doing is collecting wood

It gave me sexy Zora so I also agree

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>or the Lanaryu Mining Facility or Cistern from SS.

Those are good but neither one of them are as well designed as Sandship.

Wind Waker with the Hypatia texture pack looks incredible.

BotW looks like a blurry, washed-out mess.

windwaker fucking sucks

windwaker has more soul and is more comfy
botw is the better artstyle though

You got memed. There are actually better sidequests in BotW -- Stolen Heirloom being a particular favorite of mine.

I never really had a problem with the aesthetics of the shrines in BotW, and in a lot of them I really enjoyed the puzzles and would rank them above many of the other puzzles in the series. The biggest problem is how short they are. They would introduce the mechanic of the specific shrine and then oops thats the whole shrine. I was always left craving more of that specific puzzle.

I'm really mixed on BotW in general. The game's pretty good when you're gathering the stuff to make getting around easier, but then it's just senseless rushing to shrines/powering up to fight an easy boss

BotW is a game of journeys. Not really all that concerned with the destination proper, just the journey to said destination.

>I never really had a problem with the aesthetics of the shrines in BotW

Same here. For me, they kind of evoke a similar feeling to the exploration in old NES games.

I usually get burned out around 80 shrines or so.

Your post is literally the opposite of the truth.

Should I play BOTW on switch or PC?

I stopped caring at 70, rushed to finish the beasts and Ganon, and haven't gone back to the game since.

Well that's already 2/3rds of total shrines in the game.

>beat botw on wii u

No wonder you think it looks ugly at times. My dad bought it for both systems and the difference is huge. I’m not even playing it at the full resolution either since his tv is only 720p.

I like this one

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When they released Skyward Sword they said it was supposed to be a happy middle ground between twilight princess graphics and windwaker’s cell shading. They seemed to have kept that artstyle with BOTW.

PH is better than MC.

I'll be the first to admit
I was skeptical of the capabilities of the Switch, and despite its limitations otherwise, it's actually a visually impressive game.

And while I liked the art style of Wind Waker, I feel like it was a cop-out as far graphics. I mean, The Legend of Zelda is supposed to be a tribute to Celtic epic ballads and mythology. I ended up getting someone who studied in Ireland super into the series because it remind her of it. Making it a cartoon feels like it's undermining that.

As a kid I was aroused when she started kneeling down to Link's trousers before the curtains closed, but damn was the implied sexual behavior really necessary Nintendo?

That's obviously a compromise, not the actual toon artstyle.

What about those flooded ruins? Or all the Faron architecture? Or the labyrinths, or the Gerudo goddess statues? Or the Leviathan skeletons

>Dangerous encounters
Botw is too easy to cheese when it comes to combat. Hyrule Castle was neat but if they want to focus completely on combat than combat mechanics need to much more in depth and challenging. Dungeons should be much more labyrinthine as well if combat focused.

I remember Miyamoto insisting that it was NOT supposed to be a happy medium between TP and WW, but it's own style based on impressionist paintings. But it didn't stop the general public from running with it, anyways.

>I mean, The Legend of Zelda is supposed to be a tribute to Celtic epic ballads and mythology
The Legend of Zelda is supposed to be a tribute to the wonder of exploring the forest and caves as a child.
BotW got the exploration part right but delivered on only mountains and fields and botched forests and caves (ie shrines)

Wouldn't say 'kept', they're two radically different approaches. SS went for something of a pastel coloration with a vibrance of colors that try to make it look like a moving painting, perhaps to fit with the "historical" origin story approach. Meanwhile BOTW is basically an anime inspired by Princess Mononoke, with highly detailed (for Switch at least) backgrounds of a more earthly and realistic hue in comparison to the characters that stand out significantly, and said characters using two-tone cel-shading outright. If anything BOTW is more like a real mix of TP and WW than SS was.

But I liked Twilight Princess

I have a friend who likes the most godawful games, and would always look in the used bins for hidden gems. If the game ever glitched out, he would always laugh about it.

Twilight Princess was one of those games we used to play together. I remember playing the Wii version and us spending hours figuring out how to shield bash because the controls were so bad. Or spending hours lost at that one part where you have to roll into a random wall.

Good times. I miss you Chris. You're in a better place (Canada).

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>2001
>IT'S JUST A PHASE, YOU WILL GROW OUT OF IT YOU EDGELORD
>2019
>REEEEEE WHY HAVEN'T YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND
It's almost like it wasn't a phase and the people that disliked WWs art direction had reasons to dislike it.

The 2d games

That I agree with. I think it still counts for something that guardians are all over the goddamn place but one thing I am rather critical of when it comes to BotW is how regressive swordplay felt compared to the 2 games before it. Item based combat had a whole wealth of possibilities, 95% of which were really just you styling on enemies, but straight up traditional Zelda style swordplay was rather underwhelming mechanically for sure. I also think the inner workings of Hyrule Castle were labyrinthine enough but you can just cheese you way up the outer walls I suppose. I like the general idea that divine beasts played with of hitting X amount of points before being able to access the boss and approaching them in any order, but the actual design of the dungeons underwhelmed compared to the scale of Hyrule Castle. Had Hyrule Castle hidden 4 points away and had each of them guarded by a Ganon form (if you didn't kill it earlier) then I feel like it'd be a perfect example of what divine beasts were largely going for.

>I remember playing the Wii version and us spending hours figuring out how to shield bash because the controls were so bad.

You literally thrust the nunchuck forward while holding your shield up. That's it.

Wind Waker for sure cause its artstyle ads more charm to its characters and NPCs despite being simple.

>2001
>REEEEEEE IT'S TOO KIDDY, MUH MATURE ZELDA FOR MATURE GAMERS LIKE MYSELF
>2019
>REEEEEEE IT'S TOO KIDDY, MUH MATURE ZELDA FOR MATURE GAMERS LIKE MYSELF

It's almost like you're a jaded manchild butthurt over the same game almost twenty years later.

Personally I like how they tried making SS enviroments look like a painting from distances with its blur.

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>botched forests and caves

Lost Woods and especially Faron were pretty dense forests, probably more dense than a Zelda forest has ever been to be honest.

I like how they tried. I don't like how they failed.

I'm not a fan of Minish Cap, but this is wrong for the simple fact that MC has better controls than PH. Even waggle controls were better than using the touch screen for literally everything.

Most of the islands in WW are just a single item puzzle that gives you some rupees. There being precisely one island for every square on the map also felt incredibly unnatural.

What was wrong with them? I thought they were fairly intuitive and accurate, more so than SS's motion controls anyway.

Also PH had some surprisingly nice puzzles and content.

there's nothing wrong with TP's artstyle. The character art however...

>TP
are you fucking serious

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Some aspects of each are better than others.

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the 3DS ports maybe but the originals have not aged well visually

>there are people that actually, unironically, have Ilia as their waifu

the agony

Can i have GBC artstyle?
I miss retro Link and i'm glad he made a return with A Link between Worlds and Link's Re-awakening (at least just for the intro)

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this

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what is this a romhack?

I loved the way items were used in PH. Drawing out the path for your boomerang was really cool and the grappling hook had a ton of neat uses.

Gotta go with botw. as much as i thought id say ww it just hasnt aged well

this guy says PC

I would kill for oracle remakes with the graphical fidelity of at least the minish cap but close to the concept art in the game

I wish. It was an april fools day prank in 2008. Guy mapped an entire fake game aside from houses and caves, as a third Oracle game called Oracle of Hours.

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i wouldve loved to explore some caves in botw. im hoping theres some of that in the sequel

It's really impressive. I remember using my finger on the screen and charting paths through the dungeons and it all seemed actually planned out and beatable.

Here's the link: vgmaps.com/NewsArchives/April2008/index.htm#LegendOfZeldaOracleOfHours

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Reminder that Retro link was knee deep in pussy unlike other Links who only have Zelda or a female side kick (Midna for TP link and that duck girl from WW), this boy had probably had the incarnations of the goddesses, an apprentice witch, a girl on his dreams and this mommy of a final boss under his belt (she tried to possess him, that's for sure)

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Fuck yeah just beat seasons the other day. Some of the bosses and temples were brutal, especially the final boss. He was so annoying I had to go farm out the best defence and offence rings in the game and swap between them during the fight and I still barely killed him.

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Should've been called Oracle of Secrets since that was the title of the third goddess, Farore.

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This is the map of just one dungeon

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It's a reference to the fact that originally, the third game was being developed with a time of day theme, while original Ages had a color theme. When they axed the third game, they gave Ages the time theme and mixed the color puzzles into both remaining games.

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at that point he may as well have just made it a rom hack, what a waste of all that work

aesthetic ranking:

god tier
>OoT
>MM

High tier
>TP (character design is not artstyle autists)
>LttP

Mid tier
>BotW
>LA
>SS
>minish cap

low tier
>WW
>link between worlds

trash it
>phantom hourglass/spirit tracks

>at that point he may as well have just made it a rom hack, what a waste of all that work
Well, map design is surprisingly easy when you don't have to worry about all the programming. The Oracle of Hours design has it's own items that would need to be programmed, which means specific map tiles and such that need programmed, etc. Given the clusterfuck that most game ROMs are, it would probably be easier to build the game from the ground up rather than trying to use existing game structure from Seasons/Ages.

That would be a map from Oracle of Seasons. I'm not sure I see your point.

I'm not a low IQ Fatmerican who can't process art, so I say Wind Waker by far.

BotW is literally just generic gay animu shit.

I like both.

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>character design is not art style

art style refers to how things look. TP’s characters look like shit. TP’s art style is shit

BotW. It's also the far superior game.

It's better but between BotW and WW, it's a bit like winning the 3D Zelda special olympics.

I would like to see OoT/MM fully realised in HD at some point 2bh. The cartoony designs and offbeat proportions meshed with the darker texture work would be interesting

>SOULLESS
>SOUL

>bit like winning the 3D Zelda special olympics.
That would be between TP and SS. Truly the franchise low point, especially when you factor in the DS games alongside.

gotta agree with this. the series had a serious identity crisis for a decade or so.

Top of course.

I see why you'd say that as TP/SS and WW/BotW are more or less polar opposites but where I think TP and SS at least did dungeons well enough (if not much else), BotW has a great sense of exploration but feels like a first draft at grander ambitions with how dodgy elements like swordplay/cooking/dungeons are in execution, while WW tried to do something neat with sea exploration but didn't really do much of anything right at all in terms of playability. It's the quintessential "gold star for effort" Zelda and in a lot of ways BotW did what WW should've done but then fucked up in other ways that put it still below the other 3D entries. I do think BotW's formula can be something but right now it's up to the sequel to pull that off.

SS is a pain in the ass to play

For some. I didn't mind SS's controls and beat it twice because of Hero Mode, whereas I had to force myself to beat BotW even once.

100% Wind Waker, much more consistent and the colors are way better.
And in all other aspects WW is the worst 3D Zelda.

the art nerd in me prefers BotW, because they used a 'plein air' aesthetic. Which made the entire game atmospherically beautiful. there are sections of the game where some of the most advanced painting techniques are translated into the game. almost edgar payne tier.

but I generally prefer wind waker, because I appreciate it's cute cartoony style. also excellent cel-shaded execution.

overall BotW takes the cake. nintendo [currently] has the best art design in their games.

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That's quite the interesting point of view, pretty nice user.

The Wind Waker could have easily blown everything out of the water had it actually tried.

>Fucking love Forest Haven
>I wonder what new Islands the game will present next?
>Lolnope enjoy 5 hours of fetch questing
>Get to Hyrule
>Haha enjoy your path

It's like Aonuma wanted it to fail

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The shrines and Divine Beasts are better designed than most 3D Zelda dungeons. Not sure what people mean when they say they're bad, other than "there's not enough combat", when that's clearly not the intent. In terms of forcing the player to think about 3D spaces and structures in totality, the Divine Beasts are really good, and multiple solutions to puzzles make them a lot more interesting than previous Zeldas

The problem with the divine beasts isn't their ambitions, but rather that they don't feel like they're pushed far enough. Sure, there's a couple extra gimmicks thrown in compared to your average puzzle shrine and they are larger affairs for it - all fine and good, they're barking up the right tree - but considering how much BotW props up freedom and exploration the divine beasts feel a bit cramped and tame for what are supposed to be the main event. Each beast should've been as large and labyrinthine as Hyrule Castle, easy. More combat scenarios would've helped too - just because it wasn't the intent of the divine beasts doesn't make it not a regression from the typical Zelda dungeon experience, a balancing act between combat and navigation was always at the crux of Zelda dungeons and the divine beasts disrupts that balance in a way that isn't beneficial. Again, great concept but it just doesn't feel like it was fleshed out enough.

third post correct post

Considering you're totally free to roam around the Divine Beasts, and they're actually very spacious rather than cramped, I don't see your point. Why should every dungeon be as expansive and complex as the final one? I also don't see how they're a regression. 3D Zelda puzzles weren't very good or interesting, and they (for the most part) had restricted ways to navigate and complete them. BotW improved on that. The older games may have balanced bad puzzles with simplistic combat more than BotW, but that doesn't make them good.

They could have stood to be bigger too. I felt like I was manuevering a slightly roomier double decker bus instead of a giant mechanical monstrocity.

What a heap of shiteaters, BOTW is unplayable due to its anime puke in place of artstyle. WW is the only playable Zelda artstyle-wise.

WW, BotW is a really ugly game

>Why should every dungeon be as expansive and complex as the final one?
Because it's the only one to feel like it really taps into BotW's dungeoning potential. Playing through the divine beasts just felt like glorified shrines to me, almost like I was playing 4 or 5 normal shrines duct taped together with a central gimmick that you turn the switch on a few times. They don't feel like a proper Zelda dungeon, it's too barebones. Hyrule Castle felt like a place you could just get lost in for a couple hours and find all sorts of neat items and encounters, it's much nicer than any divine beast puzzle gauntlet.

>3D Zelda puzzles weren't very good or interesting, and they (for the most part) had restricted ways to navigate and complete them. BotW improved on that.

True in concept, and for that I do see what divine beasts put forth as the future of Zelda dungeons. In trying something new though, I simply feel like they were a little shy about it in some respects. The previous puzzle gauntlets of old had still more content than divine beasts did, even if said content was simpler and more linear. I'd like to see a divine beast that takes longer than 45 minutes to finish.

>The older games may have balanced bad puzzles with simplistic combat more than BotW, but that doesn't make them good.

The combat's there so that there's some semblance of opposition, a way to lose. Divine beasts do so little in this regard prior to the boss room that they might as well have not even bothered. Zelda might be easy but old school dungeons did at least make it possible to die if you were bad or under the age of 10. I feel like divine beasts didn't even really try in this regard, the sole threat for functioning minds is the boss.

>artstyle can render a game unplayable

A bad enough framerate, maybe. But artstyle?

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>They don't feel like a proper Zelda dungeon, it's too barebones
That's because WW/TP set the precedent for super long, tedious linear 3D dungeons being "true Zelda", when the older 2D games were less linear and didn't have bad puzzles.
And even then, I don't get what you mean, because the Divine Beasts are huge, and the gimmick of the payer controlling them and rotating sections forces them to think of their layouts in totality, so they never actually feel like "shrines duct-taped together" (at least i m o)

Easy, if you have a resemblance of taste. > art nerd
> okay with BOTW anime shit
> Nintendo has THE BEST artdesign
Holy mother of cringe.

FUUUUUUUCK

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Ultimate bot taste.

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>because the Divine Beasts are huge
They're really not. Not as dungeons, anyways. And even if you want to blame WW/TP the N64 Zeldas still had longer dungeons than the divine beasts.

>and the gimmick of the payer controlling them and rotating sections forces them to think of their layouts in totality
Yeah, hence the bit about a central gimmick and hitting a switch a few times. You're not wrong but even then those functions were often simple changes that were about as impactful as something like flipping the dungeon in Stone Tower, changing the water levels in Water Temple or rotating the central staircase in Lakebed Temple. 3D Zelda has played with concepts of spacial totality before. BotW does pursue them more aggressively but it's not an absolutely novel concept for the series.

So wait, you claim it's easy to have an entire game completely ruined by something as petty as arbitrary taste in artstyle? This is somehow more important than things like gameplay mechanics and controls?

Both are terrible. BOTW is ugly gouache painting style that fails spectacularly and looks like a literal tablet smartphone game.

WW looks like a cheap Saturday morning anime and that's not a good thing.

They both have great artstyle, but I think WW executes it in a more pleasant way. BoTW is just so blurry with strange color saturation, playing on PC with mods helps a lot though.

>TP

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Have you played either of them?

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whoa that low res image looks worse that the one that isn't!

>woah digital vibrance

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wind waker. i don't understand why people think that botw looks good, because it doesn't look very good at all.

BotW by far.

It does at times. Like when there's a sunset

when i think of botw i think of pic related. looking up screenshots of sunsets, those do look good, yeah. i dislike the bleached look like in pic related though

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They're both good

this fuck old good new bad shitters
railroad dungeons weren't exactly exciting or challenging to anyone above the age of 10.

Me too honestly, hopefully the next game looks better

why do nintenbros always use this excuse?
>I-IT'S A LOW RES IMAGE SO HAH
how is a higher resolution going to make those 2d trees and oblivion textures look any better? you do know a better image won't make the textures look better, right?

So since BotW2 is taking inspiration from RDR2, will it also have lovingly rendered 3D horse balls?

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obviously it would you fucking idiot

>That's because WW/TP set the precedent for super long, tedious linear 3D dungeons being "true Zelda", when the older 2D games were less linear and didn't have bad puzzles.
I don't think you've played the older Zeldas in a while. The formula WW's and TP's dungeons follow was established as early as some Zelda 1 dungeons and pretty much solidified as The Zelda Formula between LttP and LA. The dungeons were always fairly linear thanks to keys limiting where you can go, and the increased emphasis of puzzles over just combat and keys can be seen fairly early on.
>And even then, I don't get what you mean, because the Divine Beasts are huge
If you only care about their physical size, then sure, there's a lot of big empty nothing in those things. But in terms of content they're bare bones with only a handful of rooms, next to no enemies, and only a small handful of puzzles.
>and the gimmick of the payer controlling them and rotating sections forces them to think of their layouts in totality, so they never actually feel like "shrines duct-taped together" (at least i m o)
Which is basically the same gimmick used in Skyward Sword's Sky Keep. And just like that one many of the puzzles just boil down to "make a path from point A to point B". There are a few areas where it's used well, but it was hardly done enough to justify how little there is to do in Divine Beasts and how few there are.
Also I find it funny how you criticize later Zelda games for their puzzles and changing what it means to be "true Zelda" but then praise Divine Beasts, which are nothing but 3D Zelda style puzzles. If anything, Divine Beasts are what you get when you remove all the elements of early Zelda dungeons from later style 3D dungeons, and as a result they don't feel like Zelda dungeons at all.

based

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>”make a path from point A to point B”

there is literally zero of that in any divine beast.

I was like 13 around the time of the Wind Waker shitstorm and was pretty pissed off about the whole thing. I ended up buying the game and enjoying, and not really minding the art style actually. It's decent, its unique, and it allows them to take some creative liberties that otherwise wouldn't be possible (like that snotty-nosed kid), which gives the game some charm.

That said, BotW's style is timeless. I've had many "Wow" moments while playing that game and catching a particular view or seeing a new type of terrain. WW never quite had the same effect. I never sat and just stared at the beauty of the game world in WW

Zelda 1 and 2 didn't have puzzles, and were less linear than later 3D Zelda dungeons (e.g. in Zelda 1 you could also bomb through a lot of walls, in Zelda 2 dungeons you were faced with elevators and floors with paths on either side)
Later Zelda 2D titles had a focus on puzzles, and the were actually fairly well-designed in parts (mostly in the Oracle games). That's what differentiates them from OoT and other 3D Zelda puzzles, which often barely qualify as puzzles.
The "big empty nothing" in the Divine Beasts are typically reserved for the boss arena. Aesthetically that could make them seem bare bones, but practically everything has a purpose and the scale is warranted.
>hardly done enough to justify how little there is to do in Divine Beasts and how few there are.
The fact that you're allowed the freedom to mess around and experiment with the puzzles in a non-linear manner, as well as with the actual structure of the dungeons themselves, is still more interesting and fun than the rigid, linear and overly long dungeons of its 3D predecessors (other than the exceptions that sort of anticipate Divine Beats, like the SS dungeon you mentioned).
>Also I find it funny how you criticize later Zelda games for their puzzles and changing what it means to be "true Zelda"
I don't give a shit about "true Zelda", just good games. The Divine Beasts "don't feel like Zelda dungeons at all" because you've accepted the previous dungeons as the standard, when they shouldn't be
>Divine Beasts, which are nothing but 3D Zelda style puzzles
Except they're not. They're physics-based and allow the player to complete them in multiple ways.

>cringe
Why didn't you tell before that you were a retard?

this is why i think nintendo shouldnt listen too much to fan complaints/demands, and just make a game that makes them feel good. ultimately, no matter what kind of art decision or gameplay decision or story decision is made, if the developers are putting their soul into it, fans will feel it. for the most part.

TP was trying too hard to be OoT 2, because some people didnt like how unusual and cartoony WW was. SS was trying too hard to be out there and cartoony, because some people complained about how TP was too gloomy and too traditional.

if the developers just make something they feel good making, that feeling will translate, and players will feel it.

nintendo took the risk of people disliking BoTW because it was missing certain things they liked in older games. but they didnt take that risk because anyone was demanding it, they took it because they themselves wanted a refreshing change of pace.

Nah, some were in holes, but not all of them.

Mass quoting was a clue.

I agree with you on the major points, and you clearly have more ability for critical thought than the majority of the posters here. Still, I think Nintendo's approach of making everything non-linear, including the dungeons, came back to bite them in the ass. I admired what they were doing with the Divine Beasts, but they just really weren't that fun to play, apart from maybe the first one you experience

To be fair emulating BOTW can fix the blurriness and washed-out colors.

Emulated BOTW > Any version of WW > Original BOTW

>Zelda 1 and 2 didn't have puzzles
Zelda 1 had simple block pushing puzzles and tiles you couldn't cross until getting a dungeon item. They weren't much, but the beginnings of puzzles were there.
>Later Zelda 2D titles had a focus on puzzles, and the were actually fairly well-designed in parts (mostly in the Oracle games). That's what differentiates them from OoT and other 3D Zelda puzzles, which often barely qualify as puzzles.
It's the same shit in all of them. They've always had lame telegraphed "use this item here" ""puzzles"", block pushing puzzles, switches that toggle barriers, etc
>The "big empty nothing" in the Divine Beasts are typically reserved for the boss arena. Aesthetically that could make them seem bare bones, but practically everything has a purpose and the scale is warranted.
I'm talking about everything. Every room is huge but only has 1-2 points of interest. There's maybe 10 enemies total in any divine beast.
>The Divine Beasts "don't feel like Zelda dungeons at all" because you've accepted the previous dungeons as the standard, when they shouldn't be
They don't feel like Zelda dungeons because they're missing elements that have been common to Zelda dungeons since the first game. They're just big puzzle boxes with a boss at the end. Ganon's Castle and the mazes feel more like dungeons than the Divine beasts.
>Except they're not. They're physics-based and allow the player to complete them in multiple ways.
SOME of them can be solved multiple ways. Many of them are just as rigid as your typical Zelda puzzle. Show me the multiple ways to raise the underwater terminal in or put out the fire in Vah Ruta for example. And you say this like previous Zeldas never let you cheese puzzles.

Wind Waker. I grew to like the style pretty quickly after seeing it in motion. BotW's look is nothing special and Zelda is easily the worst she's ever looked outside of the DIC cartoon.

theres a difference between designers ‘letting’ you cheese puzzles and designers simply overlooking an error in their puzzle that allowed them to be cheesed. dungeons in 3D zeldas prior to botw were all air-tight in design and their intended path of completion.

WW looks like shit, but it doesn't actively destroy thrust daggers into my eyes like BotW does.

>It's the same shit in all of them. They've always had lame telegraphed "use this item here" ""puzzles"", block pushing puzzles, switches that toggle barriers, etc
Yes, but they were never "look around and shoot the eye", they were actual puzzles. And the Oracle games made them more challenging, from what I recall.
>I'm talking about everything. Every room is huge but only has 1-2 points of interest
The boss arenas and exteriors are huge and without much of interest because one is for a boss and the other is just there for the player to navigate and get a better understanding of the layout. There are big rooms, but they usually have three to four puzzles or chests inside. Often the boss rooms have a major puzzle inside it as well, like the Gerudo one
>SOME of them can be solved multiple ways.
A lot of them can, if we count shrines. And glitching/cheesing a few puzzles in Wind Waker is different from a whole game that has intentionally exploitable physics. The point remains that the Divine Beasts give the player a freedom and ability to experiment that the linear, more simple 3D design of previous Zeldas didn't.
I don't care about what counts as "real Zelda", but I know that I prefer that to what those other titles offered.

I agree. This version of Link also has the best trap potential.

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>Yes, but they were never "look around and shoot the eye", they were actual puzzles.
Oh yes, "look around and light the unlit torches" is so much better. Zelda puzzles have always sucked. Dungeons that are nothing but Zelda puzzles suck even more.

this

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>"look around and light the unlit torches" is so much better
Except BotW even allows you to experiment in doing that, like lighting arrows.

>dungeons that are nothing but zelda puzzles

um..... have dungeons ever been anything else?

They're also typically combat challenges and a thematic boss, frequently with good music.

Yes, they're usually labyrinths with more than 5 enemies in them.

>labyrinths
you're giving them way more credit than they deserve.
the combat is rarely a "challenge" in 3D Zelda, and the Divine Beasts have good music. aesthetically the blight ganons appear similar but they change-it-up gameplay wise. I don't think "the lava boss has a dinosaur aesthetic" is really that great thematically, in honestly

i loved the divine beast music

I love them both.

Why does Vah Medoh's offline music sound so distressing? It's like the least infested Divine Beast but it sounds like Satan's cold room.

listening to it on youtube rn. those piano chords..... yikes

WW is one of the only zeldas that actually looks good visually.

listening to it as well... I forgot how cool the music in this game was. they really weren't scared of being a bit avant-garde for this one

wind waker is better. It's not a blurry fucking mess like BOTW so it wins by default.

the music gave this game a very surreal undertone

it was very pretty on the surface, yet there was something always kind of creepy and off about it

WW by a mile because it doesn't have some disgusting bloom filter mucking up scenes and making all the colors washed out. The characters are much more emotive and there is no disparity between the styles used for characters, world, and equipment, like there is in BOTW.

Wind Waker has the better environments and overall style while BoTW has the better character designs, that being said I think the changes made to the graphics in WW HD are a fucking disgrace that shouldn't exists while BoTW can be at least tweaked in an emulator so if we are talking about HD Zelda BoTW is the clear winner.

>character design is not artstyle
Character design is absolutely, 100% an aspect of art style, you raging faggot.

TPs only good looking characters are Link,zelda, ganondorf, and impna. The rest are the ugliest shit in the series. the environments fell for the brown and bloom meme of the time too

>impna
Reading quickly, I thought you meant Impaz, and I was like "What the fuck kinda sicko..."

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