20 year old game

>Footmen have access to fucking full plate armor somehow
What's even the problem with that?

WC3 Illidan is by far the best and most nuanced character in the game, it's Arthas that looks like a Linkin Park fanboy jizz stain. Everyone agrees WoW was a mistake though.

Do you have any idea how expensive or time-consuming it is to make full-plate armor?
Only noblemen could afford it. It is why Knights were the most effective part of the European Medieval army until a way was found to penetrate full-plate.

Make no mistake. I love Arthas especially as Lich King. He's cool. But its so silly how he jumps instantly from "Obey my order Uther" to "Fuck off Uther you're fired." when 1 line about the plague turning people would've solved it.
Maybe if it was something like Arthas burns Stratholme AND THEN Uther shows up and assumes Arthas is a maniac.

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>most nuanced character in the game
Did we play the same game?
Illidan is drug addict who made a deal with the Legion. He's a failure, but a dangerous one.
TBC did a mistake by turning him into a loot pinata but at least his character was retconned. It was one of the very few thing it did right.

Dont forget half of his character motivation is he has a boner for his brothers wife.
It's like some OC a teenager with a more popular older brother would write.

>if you're 12

wasn't retconned* sorry

The writing of WoW has gone to shit since Cata and MoP was the nail in the coffin. I haven't played WoW in nearly a decade.

dude, the naaru tried to kill him.

if you come up with realism you must also admit that magic doesnt exist and the warcraft universe as a whole doesnt exist so its totally unbelievable, right?

>Do you have any idea how expensive or time-consuming it is to make full-plate armor?
>Only noblemen could afford it. It is why Knights were the most effective part of the European Medieval army until a way was found to penetrate full-plate.
You do realize its a fantasy RTS game right?

So?
Humans still breathe air in that world. Water is still wet and the ocean has currents. Something being fantasy isnt an excuse to throw out all logic.

He literally told Uther they were going to turn undead and soon, but Uther went “ain’t going to do that”. It’s all on Uther, until the frozen north desu.

Warcraft 3's story has never been noteworthy. What makes it the best of all time in your eyes?

>still has the best story of all time
LOL

Illidan is interesting because he's an end justifies the means kind of guy, he's out for power and will move heaven and earth for it but not for the sake of being stupid evil. Arthas is literally a bad copypasta from Kerrigan and is utterly boring because he has zero agency from his own as soon as he gets Frostmourne. He's just a dick sleeve to the plot the moment he turns into a death knight.

Not on Steam, fuck off

Have you seen the industry for example in Ironforge?
They can mass produce full plate armor for the alliance easily.
Not to mention they have magic and better technology than the real medival world.

it was presented well and made you care.

And how is making a large volume of plate armor illogical?

It's still a world with magic. It isn't hard to come up with a fantastical excuse to why plate armor is plentyful.

No.

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You have incredibly low standards.

By those standards, any half decent video game story could be crowned the greatest of all time.

Love has always been a universal character motivator and is well known for making people act stupid. It's not original but it's realistic. Tell me, what is Arthas' personal motivation the moment her turns into Ner'zul's errand-boy?

>WC3 is bad writing
Alright, nigger, show me what you consider to be good writing so I can shit on it.

The whole plot hinged on Arthas being irational that his path was the right one no matter what and those under him should follow and not question. Plenty of history to back that up that has lead to military disasters.

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ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER THE SJW MENTALLY ILL TRANNY GAME DEVELOPER WORLD

>20 years
>no Warcraft 4

Blizzard is truly dead

>he's an end justifies the means kind of guy
Like a lot of characters.
>but not for the sake of being stupid evil
really? He's siding with the legion, starts his quest by slaughtering innocent night elves, tries to kill Maiev and her wardens, and just want to rule Outland. He's even worst during wota if you read the game manual (hence why he is called the betrayer).
>Arthas is literally a bad copypasta from Kerrigan
Wrong Arthas fall down is perfect, especially during the cinematic. Yes indeed he's the bitch of Ner'zhul since he fell into a trap. However he embraced this new destiny and he develops a new personnality. In TFT he's here to rule his kingdom (what Ner'zhul promised him). And you can start to see how more and more independant he becomes especially when Ner'zhul has to hurt him so he obeys.

Spoken like a person who never worked under a person that "KNEW" they were right

I like Warcraft 3 but that's not a picture of Tetris.

seems pretty cheap to me

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>any half decent video game story could be crowned the greatest of all time.
there arent many decent video game stories around, but yes.

W3's story is fun as fuck and good for teens, which were its target, but it's just a juvenile melodramatic epic, told through expositive monologues between one dimensional characters, and bigger than life events, basically the MCU.
In no dimension could it be considered the best story of videogames history, although it's very good for the standards of the medium and, again, for what they wanted to make: just mindless fun for teens.

Myth 1 and 2 have a much better story. WC3's story declines after the Undead campaign.

It's just Metzen being lucky with his copy pasta.
It didn't turn so well after that.

Looks like generic cyberpunk ninja shit trying to cash in on the hype normies have about this genre. Also looks like indie trash so it probably has pretentious """deep""" story that amounts to literally nothing.

Next.

Pic related. It feels so much more epic compared to WC3s story, or most vidya story for that matter.

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>dark souls
opninion disregarded

You never even played it and are incredibly wrong.
I played WC3 it was my childhood. But it has a basic story.

This story was ass and just an excuse to introduce new units to the game

It's literally just warhammer but shit.

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user, that conflict made absolutelly no sense at all, the problem is not Arthas and/ or Uther being stubborn, it's they AND JAINA, AND EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER WHO KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING becoming temporalely retarded and so irrational they just couldn't sit down and talk about the fucking zombie making magical illness, just because the plot needed it.

Arthas was right until he betrayed the mercenaries in northrend

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>generic son betrays father
>generic orc invasion
>generic le magic

Garithos is a better character than Arthas.

Dark Souls story is basic as fuck, it's just delivered in a way that makes it interesting.
>m-muh cycles lol

>Do you have any idea how expensive or time-consuming it is to make full-plate armor?
In the world of Warcraft? Like 1 gold and 20 seconds of smithing.

My favorite character in WC3 is Maiev.

>Ner'zhul has to hurt him so he obeys
Nigga did YOU play the game? Ner'zul never needed to hurt Arthas to make him obey, it was the the Eye of Sargeras that broke the Frozen Throne and by extension Frostmourn that weakened him.

Who? Wasn't "fuck off I'm chasing Illidan's dick" her entire character?

Yup, even betrayed and lied to just do that. Made her interesting.

Try again without the buzzwords.

why are normalfaggots who consume blizzard trash sor retarded,Planescape Torment or Legacy of Kain have much better stories,and I can name tens of other games with better stories

I think he made a pretty good job, and that the main WoW's problems were trying to milk the story through endless expansions, and that the already set important characters don't mix with the "every player is important/ the main character" shit they went with in the game, much more than Metzen going to shit.

Good to know I can write off anyone's opinion as being shit if they think this story is good. The game is enjoyable but you're retarded if you think the story is what props it up.

I just got Grifith vibes from what you just said.

The Human and Undead campaigns are amazing story wise, night elf and orc is kinda bland.

Garithos is a complete retard though
>NEVER TRUST NONHUMANS
>*proceeds to trust an undead elf and a dreadlord*

Based user.

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Just shows how right he was.

youtube.com/watch?v=uGvxDt7Mjz4
Perhaps, but it shows that the mind control wasn't perfect. Ner'zhul never fully mindcontrol him since he has still his personnality and still wants to be a King.

Plate armor is cheaper and less time consuming to make than chainmail. Also Warcraft 1 and 2 had plate so eat shit.

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No the narru was purifying him and making him even stronger with the light, he rejected it because of teenage angst.

Yes, but also shows he is a retard who didn't follow his own advice.

Cute.

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So, in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne the apparent leader of the Alliance is a ridiculous racist caricature.

I have no idea who the Grand Marshall Garithos is supposed to be, and I have no idea why Prince Kael'thas (more accurately King Kael'thas, since I understand that his father Anasterian Sunstrider died during the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas) is subservient to him, nor why King Magni Bronzebeard would allow this incompetent buffoon to command his Dwarves, but apparently that's the case.
Even though Lordaeron is in ruins and controlled by the Scourge, and that they're outnumbered and without supply, this Grand Marshall Garithos decides to leave the Blood Elves - not only a significant portion of his forces, but also the only spellcasters in his army - to face the Undead Scourge alone, in an obvious attempt to kill them off.
This will apparently be used in World of Warcraft as an excuse for why the Blood Elves are part of the Horde rather than the Alliance.

Because even if the Orcs ravaged Quel'thalas in the Second War, Trolls have been enemies of the Elves for generations, and the Undead are responsible for the devastation of Quel'thalas in the Third War and their inability to sustain their magical addiction and commanded by the reanimated corpse of the elven ranger-general who tried to stop the Scourge in the first place, well, hey, there's a random dead racist idiot somewhere in Lordaeron who apparently outranked the King of the Elves.

Anyone going to defend this?

Warcraft III had a good story?

The Horde campaign. The Orcs discover a new land, make some new friends and ally with the Alliance forces lead by Jaina. Other Orcs go back to being controlled by the demons and you have to fight them.

If we go into actual plot important information though, nothing happens in this campaign.

One could say that the alliance with the Alliance was significant, but for the sake of the plot, it isn't. Since the Horde and Alliance are together in all subsequent appearances in the campaign, you could have essentially replaced them with only one race and the effect would have been the same.
And because the Alliance campaign actually had plot relevance, they get priority. So if you replaced every Horde/Alliance appearance with Alliance alone, you'd have no Horde appearances in the entire game.

There's some serious undermining of past titles here. The Rein of Chaos campaign is really about the Scourge (as the representatives of the Burning Legion) and the Night Elves, and a continuation of their ancient struggle. The Orcs are completely irrelevant in the storyline.
The Humans are relevant only insomuch as they are responsible for producing Arthas, the Scourge's enabler, as well as a significant amount of their troops, and they actually resist the Scourge long before the Legion gets summoned. Also because the spellbook of Medivh, a human, was necessary to summon Archimonde.
In the grand scheme of Reign of Chaos, they are not very significant though.

cont.

>orc invasion
there was no orc invasion in ww3

cont.

Undermining the two core races of the franchise is bad enough, but because the Horde was created to destroy the Sentinels, and facilitate the Legion's return, Orcs and Humans, Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal only happened because Kil'jaeden or whoever else was in charge opened the Dark Portal in Azeroth rather than Kalimdor.
That's right, in canonical lore the entire franchise up to this point only exists because Gul'dan couldn't use Mapquest.
I'm sure all the Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Elves (High-flavoured), Ogres, Gnomes, Goblins and Trolls (Amani-flavoured) who died in those wars are really happy to know their deaths had meaning.

The big problem is Medivh. He's really not that clever. His strategy to get the Alliance across the sea was pretty much bound to fail - even if they had enough boats to carry the entire population of the Western Kingdoms.
Thrall and Jaina went not because they're wiser than the others, but because Thrall and his Orcs were on the run, being hunted down by the Alliance, and a new continent gave him the chance to establish a home for his people. He says this several times in the Orc campaign. Jaina, I have no idea. She sensed that he was 'very powerful' but I don't know why she derived 'trustworthy' from that. Of course, Medivh does address her right after her boyfriend slaughters and burns Stratholme, so maybe she was emotionally vulnerable or something.

cont.

the reason blood elves are horde is because wow is an mmo and horde was not popular and they needed to boost its playerbase
and now it's like 70% blood elf

cont.

The big problem with Medivh is that he had the whole thing backwards. he should've been trying to convince the Night Elves to come to this side of the Ocean.
If everybody had allied against the Scourge and Legion in Lordaeron, then they could have prevented the Scourge from overrunning Lordaeron, Alterac, Dalaran and Quel'thalas and adding the bodies to their numbers, they could have prevented the resurrection of Kel'Thuzad, and most importantly they could have prevented the Scourge from getting their hands on Medivh's spellbook, and therefore summoning the demons in the first place.

And on the other side, instead of just a rag-tag group of Alliance refugees, you could've had the seven Human kingdoms, the Dwarves and the High Elves fighting with the Night Elves against the Scourge. Sure, you wouldn't have the Tauren, but that's a fair exchange.
And best of all, since the Night Elves already know about the Burning Legion, it would have been easy to explain the threat and have it be credible! But I guess that would have been too easy?

And before you say Tyrande would have told him to go fuck himself, at least she already knows about the Burning Legion and would have been more likely to comply than carry the entire population of the Western Kingdoms across the sea to Kalimdor.

End rant.

>orc invades night elves
>kills their god
>we dindu nuffin wrong

blizz games are more accessible. planescape torment isnt for normies and legacy of kain is ancient stuff that noone under 30 has ever played. it died with the ps2.

>wants to be king
>destroys his kingdom
>supposedly does the under the influence of mind control, or maybe not because he needs to be cool and independent too
10/10 character

Fable 1 has great story as well :)

And they couldn't think of a different "pretty-face" race that wasn't in wars with the Orcs, Trolls and Undead?

...no

What's more there is no real explanation for where Garithos came from.
It's the Alliance. Literally a united force of multiple kingdoms with different races.
How did he attain the rank of High Marshal?
The racism of humans against dwarves/Elves is literally never shown outside of this 1 guy. No way should he have been made High Marshal unless the Alliance command is way more corrupt then we are ever shown or told.
What even is the Alliance chain of command?
Despite being about War. Warcraft's story and universe has the same understanding of war as the sheltered 90s California boys who made it. 0
Just look at WoW painfully devolving it into some knock-off cold war between Alliance and Horde with factions being hamfostedly forced into either side.

You missed the part where he became crazy and he killed his father so he could become the King.

>star wars ripoff
>generic "good guy bad now" story
>"best story of all time"

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>star wars ripoff
????

Is this pasta? I like it.

Lads, we never got an ogre race in wow. How did this happen

You need to make up your mind. Did he go crazy or was he being mind controlled?

>>orc invades night elves
to right i forgot about that, but it was only a splinter force of the orcs and "invasion" is a tall word for just campin ina woods and suddenly get jumped on by angry hippie elves. the demon blood drinking was in self defense.

Yea I copied a guys rant from an old forum and edited it a bit, glad you like it.
I really enjoyed his points about Medivh being a retard.

Arthas and Illidan's character progressions throughout WC3 and Frozen Throne are very similar. In both cases you have guys who make increasingly immoral sacrifices for the sake of attaining power and achieving a higher goal. Arthas makes these sacrifices for the sake of his kingdom and his people, until somewhere along the line when it blurs and becomes more about his personal revenge. However, Arthas's initial goal was a relatable and noble one.

Illidan, on the other hand, is motivated purely by a desire to bang his brother's wife, something she made very clear would never happen over ten thousand years ago. Illidan's character is fine, but personally I think the "save my kingdom" motivation is a lot more compelling than the "bang my brother's wife" motivation, which is why I think it's fitting that Arthas defeated Illidan, even though they were both irredeemable monsters by the end of Frozen Throne.

What really pisses me off about Illidan is all the retcons they've done in WoW that try to turn him into some keikaku master messiah who really is just SO SELFLESS and would give ANYTHING TO STOP THE LEGION (except for when he willingly became Kil'jaeden's bitch-boy not once, but TWICE and helped the Legion fight the Alliance and Horde in BC but IGNORE THAT). Illidan was never a mastermind and he was never demon Jesus, he was a career fuck-up who wanted to bang his brother's wife and when he got shitstomped at the end of Frozen Throne and realized he'd given up his soul for nothing, he ran away back to Outland and became an insane despot. Yeah, boo-hoo, it sucks he dies at the end of Black Temple without being an epic badass, but who the fuck cares? His character arc ended when he lost to Arthas. There was nowhere to go from there.
He's a fucking braindead zoomer who never played WC3 and has his timeline mixed up. He thinks Blizzard ripped off the prequel trilogy. Or it's bait.

Both. I don't think that even with Ner'zhul gone he would have became normal again.

the english and the french were ancient enemies too. didnt stop them from becoming allies in ww1.

you may not like it but thats reality.

The real problem with The Frozen Throne is the ending.
Arthas becomes the Lich King. Now, the manual tells us that what Ner'zhul needed was "some hapless dupe who was torn between darkness and light".
So remember at the beginning we said Arthas' descent into evil was well done? Well, apparently, not, and Arthas is "torn between darkness and light".
No, seriously, when has Arthas ever shown any inclination for good since Frostmourne devoured his soul? He himself says that he feels no sorrow or remorse over any of the things he's done, including the cold-blooded murder of his own father and the slaughter of his mentor.

The last cinematic has voices berating him, although he's "haunted" by his actions, but nothing he has said or done ever indicated anything like that. You can't just expect us to believe that.

With those requirements I could have expected someone like Illidan or Grom Hellscream to be Ner'zhul's host, those two were obviously trying to help and to do good, but their demonic addictions caused them to reckless and sometimes terrible things.
I could have accepted those two as "torn between darkness and light". Kael'thas was still good, but his addiction could have driven him down that path too, in time. But Arthas? Arthas was truly and wilfully evil.

Yes.

Not only with all the bullshit you've mentioned, there has never been an instance where people hated the elves. It's a bullshit contrivance and they should of just made a naga campaign with no human one.

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I always forget about Medivh, he's such a bad story element and the entire plot hinges on him. Seriously, fuck the ancient prophecy trope.

The French and English had Germany as enemies and all that, Blood Elves weren't really in a war with Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes or Night Elves to suddenly side with Orcs and Trolls, considering their past.
Lets not pretend the wanted a "pretty" race for the Horde.

I mean you aren't considering logic in-universe though. Magic is as big a I DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN SHIT as any universe can have. Do you honestly, logically believe that if Magic was real forge practices and production wouldn't improve a hundred fold?

His strategy to get the Alliance across the sea as if they even had enough boats to carry the entire population of the Western Kingdoms all to Kalimdor was so fucking dumb...

>orcs retconned into Dindus put into concentration camps
Except they are not at all like that in Warcraft 3. Remember that you fight the Blackrock clan multiple times and they are bloodthirsty as all get out. Even with Thrall's orcs, Grom almost fucks everything up by succumbing to the demons again. The manual talks about how after the destruction of Draenor in Beyond the Dark Portal, the orcs fell into almost a withdrawal state. There's even mad Stormwreavers scattered in the Shattered Isles. The orcs aren't blameless, it's just that Thrall was leaving the Eastern Kingdoms with the few who would follow him.

>Arthas' entire fall wouldnt have happened if he or Jaina took 30 seconds to explain how the plague works to Uther.
In the second mission briefing, Arthas is already too hasty with wanting to attack the orc camp. He's rash and impatient, which is a classic character flaw you see in tons of stories. Could he have explained it to Uther? Probably, but Uther is the head of the Silver Hand and unlikely to waiver, and Arthas is impulsive.

>All in all just generic fantasy shit which encouraged the industry to copy this bland pauldron style.
I don't think that is anything you can fault War3 for. Take a look at the Warcraft 2 manual and you'll see Metzen's style all over it with roided out elves and trolls and everyone built like a football linebacker. It's his style, and it translated well to easily readable units in an RTS game.

I really like Thrall and Grom's dynamic in the Orc campaign. I know a lot of people doodoo on his portrayal in WoW, but I never played WoW past 2005 so I can't speak on any of that.

The Chad Arthas
>Willing to do whatever it takes to triumph
>Doesnt care about morality
>Destroys 5 kingdoms in a week
>Kills his dad and his mentor. Doesnt give a fuck about bonds.
>Jaina still cries over missing his cock
>Gets the best expansion, kills the players who need a literal Deus Ex Machina to win. Dies still mourned by everyone who loved him.
>Pushes Illidans shit in so bad he goes insane until Legion
The Virgin Illidan
>Pathetically tries to sell his soul for power. It's not even necessary.
>Pussy foots around how evil he is willing to be.
>Never accomplishes anything
>Pisses off like an emo kid whenever Malfurion or Tyrande rebuke him
>Gets cucked by his own brother. Too much of a pussy to do anything about it.
>gets reduced to a generic end-game raid boss at the end of an expansion where he has 0 presence.
>Spent years seething from Arthas one-shotting him at the end of Frozen Throne

The English and the French had a common enemy in Germany. A new and rapidly expanding power which both nations had grudges against from past wars and conflicting interests. France and England also did nearly go to war before WW1. Not to mention both nations share elements of their culture rather closely. What past history did the blood elevs have to hate the alliance other then 1 guy?

I don't know why they did to Illidan what the did in Legion. If he's going to be a completely different character why not just write in a new character? Why can't they come up with new and interesting elements, why does everything need to be recycled?

>Maiev will never stand tall and vigilant like an owl searching for it's next prey, only to be hiding you underneath her cloak the entire time, forced to pleasure her pussy and thighs with your tongue.

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Creative bankruptcy.
Look at MoP ending with Garrosh being evil and us defeating him. Then literally the next expansion has him escape and we have to go hunt him down but this time its on bizarro Outland.
Nowe we are already repeating the evil horde warchief arc with Sylvanas.
Or look at Overwatch. Been out for 3 years. The only lore given is about who's gay.

And they have teams of writers working on this game! Fucking teams spending their days jerking eachother off and re-using ideas! Meanwhile you look at a game with a brilliant story that has twists and themes and cool moments like Hotline Miami. Made by two drunk Swedish Hipsters in their basement who had never before written anything.
The game industry is a fucking joke.

gay

Medivh doesn't care about the lives of humans or night elves or whoever the fuck, he wants to permanently cripple the Burning Legion by taking out an important general as a message "don't fuck with Azeroth". He manipulated events to set up a trap in which night elves would be forced to use the last card up their sleeve, as we can assume no other worldly force could kill Archimonde. The Scourge's uprising didn't matter to him because Ner'zhul is small fry, and even beneficial in the further war against the Burning Legion.

God damn I love Maiev so much. She's like the perfect night elf.

>What past history did the blood elevs have to hate the alliance other then 1 guy?
what makes you think it was just the one guy? blizzard can introduce some questlines and cutscenes that show humans being dicks to elves anytime they want and then suddenly its very understandable. also elves know there are different troll tribes, i dont think they hate them all. also consider that the forsaken helped them against the scourge while the alliance tried to get them killed. and thrall and cairne are total bros, who wouldnt ally with them?

>blizzard can introduce some questlines and cutscenes that show humans being dicks to elves anytime they want and then suddenly its very understandable
Yeah but they fucking didnt. That's the entire issue.

Don't do this to me, user...

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But the Burning Legion would never make it to Azeroth in the first place? Why bother gambling that a thousand things go right to gamble on the Tree?

>If everybody had allied against the Scourge and Legion in Lordaeron, then they could have prevented the Scourge from overrunning Lordaeron, Alterac, Dalaran and Quel'thalas and adding the bodies to their numbers, they could have prevented the resurrection of Kel'Thuzad, and most importantly they could have prevented the Scourge from getting their hands on Medivh's spellbook, and therefore summoning the demons in the first place.

*licks pussy lips*

It speaks volumes that the most enjoyable villain we've had in the past expansions was Guldan. A recycled element from fucking WC2!

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I imagine there's quite a lot of resentment considering the elves didn't give a shit when the scourge was fucking up Lordaeron and once the scourge turned to the elves suddenly they want to be best buds and ask for help all the time. Hell the entire reason Garithos hates the elves is his home town got slaughtered by the scourge while he was ordered to guard some retard elves.

>what makes you think it was just the one guy?
It's what we actually saw in the game?

>and thrall and cairne are total bros, who wouldnt ally with them?
Because neither of the are in the Eastern Kingdoms and they are stuck with Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes when their only allies there are the Forsaken...

They wouldn't make it to Azeroth in the same way they did in the game, i.e. through Kel'Thuzad, but they could just try again later since all the important figures live practically forever. The way Medivh pulled it off results in Archimonde and Mannoroth fucking dead, and Kil'jaeden more focused on getting revenge on Ner'zhul than anything else.

>Maiev orders you to pleasure her missionary style.
>Suddenly in the middle of it, you feel a pair of cold hands on your hips.
>Avatar of Vengeance about to peg you.

After Arthas's betrayal, most of the Lordaeron politicians and military leaders were dead. Garithos didn't really have anyone left above him, so just sort of assumed control. Blood elves kept serving under him because
1. He's the most powerful non-scourge force in the region
2. Their governments, or whatever is left of them, still had a mutual defense alliance
As for his racism, he felt the elves neglected their duties to that alliance in the second war, leading to his home town being razed by orcs, and his family being killed. And if you'd played the campaign, you'd also realize that a good number of his men felt the same way.

we also see the alliance as very human centric. right now the night elves are on their way out because the humans dont help them against the horde and the draenei are obviously holding their forces back. velen has a starship in orbit that could wipe out the horde anytime but he refuses to act. that tells me a lot.

>Because neither of the are in the Eastern Kingdoms and they are stuck with Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes when their only allies there are the Forsaken...
yeah and the british were stuck in europe while the americans were stuck with the canadians and mexicans in america. this means that brits had no reason to ally themself with america, right?

I didn't follow any of WoW's story line cause I never played beyond level 20 back in 2004 or so, but from the little bits I've seen of Garrosh, he actually sounded like an interesting character. Thrall kept telling him about how great his dad was so Garrosh wants to live up to that legacy, but is also really haughty about having not drunk any of the demon blood and is a total orc supremacist. Thrall just plucks him out of Outland and drops him in Ogrimmar before promoting him to warchief and fucking off to serenade a tornado, and Garrosh, who has no leadership experience turns out to crumble? It sounded like a pretty good tragedy to me, and him beating up Thrall in that cinematic before he dies was kinda sad. Why do people not like him, even as a tragic villain?

>still has the best story of all time
god blizdrones are deluded

The story is literally as simple and stupid as it gets
>start off with a prologue / introduction to villain
>actual story revolves around different factions grouping together for a common threat
>WOOW ILLIDAN
>cue the cliffhanger
>the end

>illidan
>relevant
zoom zoom

How can other elves even compete?

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I mean yea good guys win but that was a massive gamble to take at that point.
Could have gone wrong at many points and I don't agree getting Archimond and the Legion into Azeroth was a good idea. Dude was lucky as fuck that it all worked the way it did. Was it all in the prophecy of his?

nah

I'm sad her girlfriend died in that one mission

youtube.com/watch?v=6lgpOdRXXu0
>Do you want the mask on or off?
>Off please
>...
>Too bad.

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Reforged is shit, and latest patches broke WC3 so NO.

Some people do like him as a tragic villain especially as a rare one who wasnt corrupted by something but actually was 100% in control the whole time. One line of dialogue, I cant remember qhere, compares him directly with Arthas. But WoD is universally regarded as the worst expansion (At least before Battle for Zeroth came out) and he's responsible for that fiasco. Not to mention the stupid resolution even before WoD where they decide to give him to the Pandas for trial because apparently he hurt them the most even though y'know he fucking nuked Jaina's city.

They had a common enemy.
Are Dwarves, Gnomes and Night Elves enemies of the Blood Elves? They are enemies of Orcs and Trolls maybe but 1 dumb fuck human doesn't make the entire Alliance enemies of the Blood Elves.

>Canadians
A british colony. Which America itself once was.

In Warcraft III I think the only interaction between Night Elves and Blood Elves (Maiev forces on Outland aside) was that 1 escort mission where the Night Elves help them.
And even if the Alliance is human centric I don't see how turning the Dwarves and Gnomes into enemies is in any way logical.

World of Pandaria sounded like a fucking mess. I'm glad my final experience with WoW was the zombie invasion back before Wrath of the Lich King was released.

I really hate the way that WoW made the switch from "You are all adventurers in this big universe," to "You are all individually the most important character in this universe and also friends with all of the major NPCs but have exactly no agency to do anything besides grind loot pinatas endlessly."

I mean it's the classic prophecy copout of "it was the only way", but it's better than seeing him s a dumb retard despite being able to see the future, which is what the story would be without it.

Is there a single character that can defeat Joe?

Face it, it is pretty dull.

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humans, gnomes, dwarves are corrupted titan machines, literally old god minions. yogg saron is their creator. they cannot be trusted. orcs and trolls on the other hand are free of the taint and undead are immune to old god corruption. the choice was logical.

>467414328
It's not dull. It's fun but its just stupid and generic. Lacks susbtance.

>He's a fucking braindead zoomer who never played WC3 and has his timeline mixed up. He thinks Blizzard ripped off the prequel trilogy. Or it's bait.
How can you possibly be this retarded?

So part of his plan was going to Lordaeron, Stromgarde, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, Alterac, Quel'thalas and Khaz Modan and Gnomeregan and getting told to go fuck himself by their leaders, knowing they'll tell him to go fuck himself?
Why did he bother with that, since he only needed to show himself to Antonidas so Jaina can see their meeting.

Does it actually state anywhere that this whole thing, from going to Lordaeron in the opening Human Cinematic to Archimond climbing the Tree in the end of Rein of Chaos was all part of his plan?

>orcs are a divided people who are learning to navigate the idea of being free from their demon masters for the first time
>they must deal with those from the old guard who are willing to submit their entire race again
>they need to deal with deserved prejudices against their people because of the terrors they've unleashed
>WTF DINDUS DINDUS WHY THERE NIGGERS IN MY WOW CRINGEY CRINGE CRINGE
Fuck off faggot.

You can argue apparent plot holes and contrived characters, but at the end of the day Warcraft 3 is in the top 5 vidya stories that actually make you feel what they set out to convey, and that's a fantasy epic spanning the entire world, a fact further cemented by the most successful MMO ever being the direct result of the worldbuilding and story setup left by 3. The scale, the stakes, the payoffs, the follow-through etc are all on a level rarely achieved by vidya, even Blizzard itself.

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I mean, it was a retcon.
And because of the retcon that the Horde was created to destroy the Sentinels, and facilitate the Legion's return, Orcs and Humans, Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal only happened because Kil'jaeden or whoever else was in charge opened the Dark Portal in Azeroth rather than Kalimdor.
That's right, in canonical lore the entire franchise up to this point only exists because Gul'dan couldn't use Mapquest.
I'm sure all the Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Elves (High-flavoured), Ogres, Gnomes, Goblins and Trolls (Amani-flavoured) who died in those wars are really happy to know their deaths had meaning.

Yeah that'll is okay.

Why was he such a faggot?

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I never cared about Arthas though, even as an edgy teen back in 2003.

Too bad they never retconned his faggotry.

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>episode ii comes out months before base wc3
>broad arc of anakin’s fall explained years and years before that regardless
Who’s the zoomer again?

>edgy teen
Well there you go, too edgy to appreciate a tragic hero.

>So part of his plan was going to Lordaeron, Stromgarde, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, Alterac, Quel'thalas and Khaz Modan and Gnomeregan and getting told to go fuck himself by their leaders, knowing they'll tell him to go fuck himself?
>Why did he bother with that, since he only needed to show himself to Antonidas so Jaina can see their meeting.
Possibly he only knew that he needed humans and orcs to back up the night elves in order for the plan to work, but did not know who'll actually take him up on the offer.

>Does it actually state anywhere that this whole thing, from going to Lordaeron in the opening Human Cinematic to Archimond climbing the Tree in the end of Rein of Chaos was all part of his plan?
Nope, but it's something you can choose to believe that if you want to have the story make more sense. Writing a fictional story without any holes in it is pretty fucking hard, so having this sort of copout to relieve your mind is better than just being stuck on thinking "why didn't they fly to Mordor on the eagles?".

Illidan is suuuuch a loser, lol.

What is the moral of Arthas' story? Compromise on your morals when you're right, but don't when you're wrong?

More like poorly written tragic asshat.

No king rules forever.

>Too bad they never retconned his faggotry
They made it even worse by putting him in the same room with Uncle Sargeras.

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>That's right, in canonical lore the entire franchise up to this point only exists because Gul'dan couldn't use Mapquest.
Portal magic between worlds isn't an exact science.

>I'm sure all the Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Elves (High-flavoured), Ogres, Gnomes, Goblins and Trolls (Amani-flavoured) who died in those wars are really happy to know their deaths had meaning.
...They...did...?...

You okay? You having a stroke or you just stupid?

Sometimes there isn't a right choice.

Morals are for eight grade book reports

In all seriousness, we don't know the moral of his story since it was left open-ended in the Frozen Throne finale, maybe all his ambition and success leads him to being frozen and doing fuck all in the icy asshole of the world forever, maybe it results in him being cracked open like a pinata by 10/25 literally whos, different interpretations of his fate would imply different morals.

You think the writers of this game were smart enough to put in themes or morals?

>Portal magic between worlds isn't an exact science.
What is the argument here? That they can't open the portal anywhere in the Kalimdor continent?
It's not stated anywhere yet you wanna pretend your headcanon is real to justify the retcon.

>...They...did...?...
If your headcanon that the was no way to open the portal in the Kalimdor continent and it was always intended to destroy the Sentinels, and facilitate the Legion's return, then yes they did.
I disagree since it's headcanon.

>no blank slate

yeah why do normies care about this game again? I don't want to be forced to play as a brainlet/emotional faggot.

t. INTJ ubermensch

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Mercs are bad people that would rape children to death for shekels, using them as condoms was a smart move by him.

>Should have pounded that Elf puss when it was still warₘ-

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Dawn of War 2 had a better story.

The portal magic required someone on the other side of the portal to help open it, i.e. Medivh. Medivh needed to open the portal close to where he lived so that he could conceal is activities.

You're a moron.

>Implying he didn't

Was there really no place in the entire Kalimdor continent he could have worked on the portal without the Night Elves noticing?

It had some cute bossy elves too.

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>It couldn't be done with the economics of our history, therefore it can't be done in non-existant world with its own set of economics and history
I hate history autists. They are incapable of suspension of disbelief.

It was less about going to Kalimdor and more about concealing the prep work and the portal while the structure around it was being built. Had he traveled to Kalimdor, his mother would have taken notice, as he had no reason to.

Legion ruined his character just to please his fanboys who never played wc3.
Illidan the power hungry dude is fine with spending his life in jail AGAIN for eternity.

In retrospect Metzen was shit at his job even in Warcraft 3. I don't remember if he worked on Warcraft 2 but there wasn't exactly a lot of plot there besides war. And Starcraft was really just "Warcraft in space" as the joke goes. He didn't plan shit and like most artists when praising their works, they respond with agreement as if they had planned it all along.

The success of Warcraft was based around the fact that it was a massive gritty multi-race conflict that was probably our first taste of such things that wasn't some noble endeavor like in Lord of the Rings. As a first-time edgy fantasy story it's fine but in over 20 fucking years you'd have to be grossly ignorant to not have found something better. At the time, Warhammer Fantasy probably had much better stories but Warcraft was accessible and came in video game form.

It's only when the fucker had to elaborate and add complexity to the universes that we learned he is shit at his job. It's easy to sell a basic concept but when he had to add depth it was simply beyond his ability because his success was smashing a bunch of gritty situations together not actually crafting moments built around poetic devices like themes or morals.

I... really don't recall the timeline of the events too well and not much about his mum besides her having something to do with Sargeras I think so I'll back out of the argument and accept your reasoning, though I'd still say it's good headcanon to what is clearly a retcon and not stuff that were intended when Warcraft I and II were written.

Note how they often omit the devastating effects of magic on the economy and mass-PTSD Necromancy would wreak, for example.

To this day I still believe SC and BW were very competent in their story and narrative. In my opinion it's where Metzen and Blizz peaked.

Warhammer did it. It had actual nations with trade routes and systems.

I think Starcraft's story was done well, though Brood War has many issues with its story.

They used magic to make plate armor. There you go, perfectly realistic.

Everything I've just described is in the Warcraft Chronicles Part II pg.115-117. Don't call bullshit or "headcanon" just because you don't know what you're talking about.

I agree about Starcraft but Brood War's story was fucked mate.

The UED campaign may be a good story, however there was one monumentally atrocious element to it: the United Earth Directorate uses drugs to mind control the eternal will of the Swarm.
I’ve heard some pretty crazy conspiracy theories about pharmaceutical corporations, but enslaving the Zerg Swarm is pretty insane by any standards.
It’s hard to overstate how devastating this is for this story and that of the original StarCraft. The Overmind, after all, is effectively an anthropomorphisation of the Zerg Swarm, an attribution of recognisable characteristics and singular will to a combined essence of a species of countless billions.

The Overmind is not a racial leader like Arcturus Mengsk or Raszagal, it is not an individual, it is the entire Zerg race, and to so summarily overcome it reflects poorly on the entirety of the Swarm. It also renders much of The Fall preposterous, not to mention demeaning Tassadar’s sacrifice.
It really wasn’t necessary to find the Dark Templar and bring them back to Aiur, because the Void energies aren’t the only thing that can harm the Overmind – so can drugs.

Tassadar’s death becomes meaningless because killing the Overmind achieved nothing, the Zerg simply created a new one.
Really, had the Protoss had better pharmaceutical scientists among the Khalai, the entire thing might have been averted. What was the Overmind even doing on Char, physically incarnate? I mentioned this in The Stand, but what happened to that whole Xel’Naga holy ground thing from the end of Overmind?

Again, human pharmaceutical companies have the power to enslave the eternal will of the Swarm. I can’t get over how this is canon lore.

I didn't mean to call it bullshit, I stated I was uninformed on the matter.
Were those chronicles written before or after Warcraft III was released?

how many years of HRT is it gonna take me to look like her?

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I love her character. It's like every thing feels much more intense with her.

nah

He's a tranny abomination now, especially in Reforged.

over 9000

Uncle Lothar wants you!

wat

BW was by no means perfect, every point you made it legitimate. However, the things BW got right it did so extremely well.

The overarching story where you try to carve out a new life in the Terran and Protoss campaigns only to have it all torn down by the final zerg campaign. All the backhanded deals and backstabbing in the zerg campaign. The reveal of an ancient evil that is actually set up properly and foreshadowed in the previous stories. Not to mention that kino BW intro cinematic.

no amount of HRT will make you beautiful if you look like an ugly refrigerator before it.

they created a shitty new one that couldnt even completely control a single swarm
and the UED didnt just use drugs, they used the psi disruptor and psychics of their own, and even then they couldnt completely control this shitty new """overmind""" that had hardly a fraction of the originals power

>post WC2
eeeeeh

Starcraft was fine because it was highly centered around initial conflict. It was, like Warcraft 1 and 2, a lot about factions meeting and reacting with hostilities. For the most part, your opponents or the player in Brood War were basically new factions within each of the three races and could be met with raw hostility: UED, Protoss refugees, and UED controlled Zerg. It's well done but let's be real here, it's an easy story to write; it's easy to convince the player to hate them or view them as enemies.

The moment Metzen had to sit down and come up with real character-centric or diplomatic-based excuses for these factions to fight BEYOND invasion or self-defense, his shit falls apart. The Warcraft and Starcraft stories initially are steeped entirely in war. The moment Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 rolls around, there is actually a moment of peacetime, in which he has to build up to a conflict, which isn't easy because then you have to have people behaving like people. He has to write towards a conflict starting with people having a conversation without a sword drawn or gun pointed at the other party and he couldn't do it. So he just made up more shit and factions and big-bad-secret-evil because his wheelhouse is entirely about reacting to surprise situations with violence.

1) 129 years old
2) still has the best story
3) not even completed

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Excuse me barbar

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>be a phoneposting pretentious intellectual normie
>browse Yea Forums
>post shit that's unrelated to videogames

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>that pic
Sleep well sweet prince ;-;

Its not overrated if others are that bad.

Speaking of Brood War, saw this rant about the existence of the UED.
If you don't wanna just except their existence and actually try to put thought into it I agree with it, it doesn't make sense.

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as far as I recall he only had Jaina before he went undead and traded functioning organs for cool sword

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why did they make night elfs so fuckable bros

Garithos was the most powerfull warlord fighting the Scourge, recruiting survivors from Lordaeron and peasants to fight against the common enemy. That's why the blood elves and dwarves join forces under his command, he was a prick but the only hope against the undead.

It's rather have a well told simple story than a shitty over complex one.

>that pic
Reminds me of this.

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You're right. But for every sequel, the story naturally becomes more complex. And you can prevent it from becoming shitty by introducing poetic devices to give meaning to the complexity but Metzen just let it become shitty.

maybe its nostalgia (i highly doubt it), but its the only game where i was genuinely interested by the lore, most RP games failed me on that part

Dilate.

>The racism of humans against dwarves/Elves is literally never shown outside of this 1 guy. No way should he have been made High Marshal unless the Alliance command is way more corrupt then we are ever shown or told.
Almost like all the humans weren't racist, just this asshole...

Even if the night elf campaign is kinda boring story wise, it's got some great characters. Plus night elves are my tribal fetish buffet.

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No fictional race has ever come close to lighting up my loins as much as night elves did. And even after 17 years they're still going strong.

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>Illidan the power hungry dude is fine with spending his life in jail AGAIN for eternity

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Why is Maiev so smoll? Kinda hot desu.

>*notices user's cock*

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>good man bad
wow, such writing

>>Wacraft III
>>Video games in general
>>Having good stories

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>What if, and hear me out here
>What if instead of finishing the game, we develop the ending after the fact and sell it for a quick buck
Eat shit, Blizzard.

What the best kind of NE girl, Yea Forums? Pale skinned with white hair or the pink skinned with purple hair?

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Eh, originally the UED had retardedly high levels of tech so I can accept it. I just look at it as a case of the UED is sending a Lewis and Clark team to go check out this sector. If they succeed, then it makes a good propaganda story and they get some new territory. If they fail, then no biggie.

Her unbridled rage is a huge weight on her shoulders; keeps her from growing.

Lisa the Painful is probably the best story i've experienced in any game since I was so into it.

It still messes with the theme of human hillbillies getting caught up in a conflict between alien powers that are nearly beyond their comprehension.

As a whole, there are some questions that come up with the Brood War plot, but I've been able to generally ignore them thanks to the strength of the voice acting and moment to moment writing.

Really twists my titties when I heard that Stukov was brought back in SC2 as an independent infested terran.

Illidan and demon hunter post transformation in general are taller and stronger.

>Something being fantasy isnt an excuse to throw out all logic.
If you want logic, they have dwarves who are master craftsmen who massproduce armor, weapons and guns out of hobby.

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