Still the unchallenged emperor of Metroidvanias

>one weapon and one spell
*yawn*

>new vania game comes out
>several HK dick sucking threads, chanting their mantras and making comparisons 24/7

How fucking insecure and fragile does one have to be, good God. Making yourself/your choice of [product] feel better by shitting on someone/something else is probably the saddest thing you can do online.

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I'm at 1050 essence - I take it I'm going to need to do a bunch of dream version bosses to hit 1800 and get the awoken dream nail? Which ones are the least tortuous?

...

>It's another Yea Forums falls for falseflagging episode

What dream warriors and dream bosses have you done?

Where you at? Hollow Knight has been consistently falseflagged for literally two years now.

Doubt.
I still like ones in handhelds better. Of Sorrow is the best for me.

HK1 is too limited. They spent their entire budget on the visuals/polish and forgot about content.

Go to the areas of some of the bosses you've already fought. There might be something there that gives you 300 essence in some of those areas.

>Falseflagged
Oh come on. Don't pretend you aren't one of the most arrogant fanbases in videogames.

Whether you perceive the HK fanbase to be the most arrogant or not is on you but this fucking game has been endlessly reverse trolled non stop. With maybe a month of down time every now and then.

Reverse trolled? Don't make me laugh.
All of those threads and posts shitting on everything that isn't Hollow Knight? They're the sincere opinion of the HK fanbase.
They're one of the most arrogant fanbases on all of videogames after all.

Yeah sure buddy. Seems like the bait has worked on you long ago.

Nah, super metroid is still the best,followed by some of the DS castlevanias.

No, come back when you have THIS.

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That is not SoTN

Yeah, bait. Sure.
Sure it's bait and not the fact that your extreme shitposting has driven people away from even trying Hollow Knight so you're trying to backpedal and blame "trolls" before it affects Silksong's sales.
But, Bloodstained got released and you just couldn't resist anymore. As we talk the relentless assault against Bloodstained continues.

Super Metroid is still the best

Arent there

I unironically think that's true. Hollow Knight has
>the best art
>the most content
>the cleanest combat system
of any Metroidvania. Try to prove me wrong. I dare you.

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What? You mean this autistic thread? Get over yourself mate.

This is literally just the TORtanic fags getting mad that Bloodstained was successful so they shifted to e z trolling by mentioning Hollow Knight since that's a really popular recent game in the genre. If you can't say a game is a flop anymore then just compare it to another popular game and let the flamebait continue.

any rabi chads here

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Probably. If you see anyone with it here they probably cheated that shit in.

No way. I've done it and it only took me a few dozen hours. It's practically a test of endurance. There's a lot of autists playing this game (see the entire speedrunning community), there are probably thousands of people who beat it.

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With 30+ hours in this game, I can say it's mediocre and incredibly overrated, even more than Skyrim.

I mean, sure, but I'm not a fan on how limited your main combat options are.
I really hope you have a more expanded moveset in silksong

Also bloodstained just came out

How can that be the king and not a Metroid or Castlevania game?
I don’t think some indie shit about a bug can contest to shit like Symphony of the Night.

This. The Super Metroid map and world design alone doesn't make something a Metroidvania. The proper description for games like Hollow Knight, Axiom Verge and so on is Metroid-like. he vania part that defines Metroidvania isn't in those games.

Should have recorded it. There arent that meany videos of people doing it on Youtube

>bruh, no need to play SoTN, you have hollow night
>play it
>literally the only thing that's even close to it being SoTN is the map
>no RPG mechanics
I fucking hate Hollow Knight scum so much, you niggers keep ruining Metroidvania threads. Why the fuck don't you guys go to Metroid threads?

Personality I only browse Yea Forums for vidya info and I'm very interested in how Bloodstained compares to HK so I can decide if I buy it now or not.

The real retards are the people who still use the term metroidvania. We really need a new term.

Apparently its pretty good, but I absolutely hate how it looks. I don't want to spend 20+ hours looking at something I find ugly.

Nobody would seriously start a thread claiming a game to be "the unchalllenged emperor of " without being disingenious, the sheer amount of arrogance in those words guarantees a negative reaction from other people.

I genuinely love this game but that it's now the popular weapon for shitposting and falseflagging is disheartening. Means that any actual discussion is going to be nonexistent because the retards are going to come out with their ebin baits trying to stir shit against other fanbases

Every day I hate this fucking board more and more

Iga himself agrees and recognizes that the entire genre has been diluted and lost its meaning, thus calls Bloodstained an Igavania, which describes his style of Castlevania.

I hope these past few days will finally have people split the Metroidvania genre into actual Metroidvanias and Metroid-likes.

There's no better comparison now that people keep mentioning Bloodstained and Hollow Knight together. Maybe we can finally stick into people's heads proper genre terminology.

Hollow Knight is the SotN of zoomers

This is something for me to considerado them, one of the main reasons I liked HK is how good it looks, I just HATE when people just go for the low-effort "retro" 2d styles, if you're making a 2d platformer in 2020-1 you better make it look fucking good.

I probably should have, yeah. But I can always do it again if I have a day to waste. That shit is part of my muscle memory now. Seriously, everyone can do this if they want to. The hardest part of All Bindings PoH is not getting bored and turning off the game.

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Metroidvania is so far removed from actual Metroid games, the series dosen't even fall under the umbrella it's named after. It's just used for indie platformers now

The max % is 112%, whats yours at?
Stuff you could have missed:
>Optional upgrades (nail, abyss shriek, shade soul, descending dark, isma's tear) and all charms
>Grimm Troupe (includes a small fetchquest type thing, an additional charm notch, and a choice between 2 charms, plus a boss and an optional really hard dream version of said boss)
>The entirety of the godseeker arena/area which has 3 entirely new bosses, and revamped/harder versions of Nosk, Mantis Lords, The Hollow Knight, and Radiance
>Zote and Dung Defenders secret dream bosses

Honestly I would rather we split from using a pre-existing franchise/Iga's name. You don't call fighters "Street-likes" or 2D platformers "MiyaMarios"

I'm a SoTN fag and I love HK, its not Castlevania but Its the only 2d paltformer I've played in a decade. Not countin replays.

are you sure metroid or vania dont rival it?

>It's just used for indie platformers now
Seriously. Every time I play a new Metroidvania darling they always miss the point so hard.

Its alright but pacing issues arise thanks to backtracking with slow and boring abilities. Hornet seems more agile so hopefully that fixes it. I'm pretty hopeful and there's still a lot the first game gets right, plus the devs are pretty cool so I'm buying Silksong day one.

just sail the seven seas m80, you'll sea by yourself how bloodstained compares and it won't even cost you a single cent

what does the vania part of the name even represent? i thought it was the rpg mechanics but hollow knight barely has any of that

Do you prefer metroid design or SoTN/AoS design ?

You're right. It basically refers to the breadth of RPG customization all the igavanias have.

Hollow Knight might have a charm system but that's really it. So the main take away is that it's a combat-heavy Metroid-like.

So what other metroidvanias are worth playin if I I've played Hollow Knight, Castlevania: SotN, Super Metroid and Ori? Something that stands out aesthetically from those.

That started all the way back with Cave Story. Everyone called it a a Metroidvania even though its just a (very good) linear platforming game with small backtracking segments only isolated to that particular level.

I hate the map system

La-Mulana and Environmental Station Alpha

Symphony of the Night was basically a new genre of games. It only lost its meaning in recent years. It'll likely happen to the Souls-like genre as well.

I started doing Any% NMG (No Major Glitches, so no loading into different rooms or warping across rooms or going out of bounds) recently. I keep dying to stupid shit and resetting though (even though I have some of the hardest parts of the run down pretty good) so I don't really have a non-shit time to share.

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More of a castlevania kind of guy, only played the first metroid and it just wasn't my cup of tea.

ESA
Valdis Story
Rabi-Ribi
La-Mulana and it's sequel
AM2R
Zero Mission
Aria of Sorrow/Dawn of Sorrow
Circle of the Moon

Salt and Sanctuary especially in couch coop mode.

Zero Mission is literally 10/10 masterpiece and was worth a gba for alone.

>So the main take away is that it's a combat-heavy Metroid-like.
And IMO combat heavy platforners miss the point of a metroid game, which is a large interconnected map meant to explore (and later speed through). I don't want to be stopped every few seconds plinking away damage on sponge enemies.

HK is honestly more an 'open world' game in 2d. Speaking to my preference, I think the map is too big (especially with add ons) to be an effective metroid game.

Keep at it. And stay away from estrogen.

Axiom Verge

heh
sweating a little?

>HK
>Metroidvania
No loot tables, no item sets/builds, no leveling system. HK is like Metroid but it's not very much like Castlevania.

Fuck off with your garbage game

>Reverse trolled? Don't make me laugh.
Nobody talks like this unless you're a normalfag. Fuck off, shill.

Gotta be honest I thought Momodora was pretty meh. Aesthetic and hell and nice controls but it felt very amateur-ish and I didn't like the unintuitive level design or long treks back to some bosses so I dropped it. I can see others who really like metroidvania's or have more patience than me be more invested and enjoy it more but I didn't think it was that good.

When I think 2D open world game I still think of Rain World. While I do agree that once you get the walljump Hollow Knight becomes non-linear to the point of absurdity I still think there's enough power-up gating to consider it a metroid-like.

Spot on but I think they could keep the big map size if they get rid of the damage soonges and make better movement abilities.

I have it and I cheated.
That shit was completely ridiculous, so I don't feel bad about it.

Reminder that Silksong will have an equivalent of this
youtube.com/watch?v=0bZwk8Lk2cg

Map design is fucking terrible, I get lost because everything looks the same and I rarely use maps in games, not wort playing because of this I hate when they try to extend the length of the game by making bad/long maps, fuck them

>which is a large interconnected map meant to explore (and later speed through).
Are you saying HK doesn't have this? because god damn you would be so wrong. The game even has achievements to finish it under 5 hours, and my fourth playthrough was already under 2 hours.
>I don't want to be stopped every few seconds plinking away damage on sponge enemies.
Eh... I mean, I guess if you absolutely don't upgrade your nail enemies seem spongy? You can also just not engage, unless you are literally complaining about bosses in which case git gud.
>I think the map is too big (especially with add ons)
What additions to the main map have there been aside from the 2-3 new rooms just to introduce charms added via updates (not counting the zote room, nor the godseeker area which is literally just a hub for the pantheon and hall of gods). I also don't see why it would be a detriment to have the map be so big, theres no filler and every area connects to the rest of the game pretty well and usually has its own bosses/unique identity.

You can give the flower to elderbug? For what purpose?

To brighten up an old bug's life a little.

>no item sets/builds
so you didn't play the game?

>I don't want to be stopped every few seconds plinking away damage on sponge enemies.

When do you ever have to do this in Hollow Knight? You can simply run past any non-boss enemy with the rare exception of rooms that lock you in before you beat a few mobs.

what did he mean by this

Once you do the initial flower quest you can get more flowers from the queens grave. You can give them to the godseeker, one of the nail masters, and elderbug. The White Lady will also have new dialogue if you try to give her one. They still die on the stag station but this time you can just bench near said NPC, quit+reload, and the flower will still be in your inventory.

>dying as you ascend to deliver the killing blow
Is there a more crushing feeling of defeat?

Yes, dying to a fakeout orb in the last phase.

I can't wait for Silksong, goddammit.

Where's the Queen's grave?

Stop smoking so much weed you bongbrain.

No idea why people like Hollow Knight aside from aesthetics, it's a sub-par metroidvania. I'd rather play Guacamelee.

Why cheat that? It unlocks nothing to do all bindings at once, and even has a completionist maniac I'm not that craved for a shiny round thingy.

>No loot tables, no item sets/builds, no leveling system.
aka good game

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I don't think so because waifu fags just got their new champion.

>it's a sub-par metroidvania
By what metric? The combat is great, as is the movement (though admittedly the game only has one platforming challenge that actually has you use its potential options to the fullest). The story is simplistic, but delivers some great cinematic scenes and even a few tearjerkers. The map is expansive and filled with content. Backtracking is a bit of a pain, but I personally think it's been mostly fixed by the fast travel point in Ancient Basin and the dream gate. Once you get the Mantis Claw the game opens up enormously, to the point that people get a completely different experience depending on where they go and you can speedrun the game in hours if you know what you're doing.

Obviously it's not perfect, I have a few big problem with Hollow Knight. The slow start, the lack of good bosses in Deepnest, Fog Canyon and the Abyss come to mind immediately, or more nitpicky stuff like how the charm system should have changed the way combat works on a more fundamental level (it's a shame that the unique charms aren't very good compared to those that simply make your nail stronger, your health pool bigger or your spells better). Looking purely at the gameplay I don't see how anyone can call it sub-par.

>even a few tearjerkers
Literally where? There is nothing in this game that would generate emotional attachment to anything.

Quirrel, Myla and the Hollow Knight though.

>speedrunning that actually involves doing the content instead of glitching past it
Nice.
The Path of Pain is just one big pile of AWHELLNAW to me.
I did the basic scrubtier White Palace yesterday, and the hive blood charm is the only reason I didn't uninstall and forget about this fucking game forever.

I get the first two, but HK, really? You only see him in one scene. There's no build up to grow caring for him.

I still respect your vision though. For me, the fact that the protagonist is an emotionless husk also makes me dettach myself from the story and characters. It's a weird mix of playing a silent self-insert MC and an actual character that is unique in that it has no personality. It doesn't help that the story and lore didn't particularly interest me.

are we down?

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SotN has more content. Why does an exploration platformer in this decade only have one weapon?

Who is the autist that keeps spamming this shit? Sage goes in all fields

>blocks your path

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Rain World has something in common with metroidvanias.

>gold at the special Olympics

Nah it's still Super Metroid.

Metroidvania = 2d non-linear exploration based on ability progression
Fucking newfag retards.

Anyone else played Sundered? I just finished my second playthrough last night and started the third. I didn't think that it would grip me so hard, but it's surprisingly good game, although pretty short.

You are very dumb if you think metroidvania means that

It was literally created like that, why the hell do so many games dare to call themselves metroidvania's when they don't even fucking look or feel like them

You should only play 1 game from each genre, the rest are obviously worse and not worth the time.

Not him but people thinks metroidvania is filling a 2d map.

Saving this thread - with no survivors!

Not true.

Born of God and Spooder

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Its more metroid than castlevania tho

>emotionless husk
That's exactly what they are, and they were made to contain the Radiance. The Hollow Knight was supposed to be the perfect vessel, but it was corrupted. The player character is its sibling, and during the final battle, the Hollow Knight identifies his brother and starts stabbing itself to death to help you put him down.

nah, bloodstained just came out and already wiped the floor with HK. sorry indie babies, you can't hold a candle to a real igavania.

Honestly >1% sounds too high considering all the bullshit you have to do. Do trainers and other cheats lock you out of achievements?

Since Hollow Knight is now the undisputed king, should the genre be renamed to Hollow Knightvanias?

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Come on, you can't think anyone will actually fall for this, right? Put a bit more effort into your shitposting.

Funny how you omit the Metroid part of Metroidvania when Hollow Knight has none of the actual Vania parts in it.

soulless reddit zoomer game

Imagine being this autistic and seething that another game is more popular

So the genre should be renamed to Metroidvanias?

Need more lewd bunnies.

If you're going to rename the genre because Hollow Knight is so awesome, then why would it contain the Vania part and not the Metroid part, which is the ONLY thing Hollow Knight is based on?

Metroilowania

some faggot keeps telling me that metroid games aren't allowed to be metroid vanias and that because they inspired the genre it cant be a part of the genre
please tell me theres so little redditors here that you consider metroid to be a metroid vania game

>fight the hollow knight
>suddenly starts stabbing itself
>youtu.be/xdWkZOo-p0M?t=135 plays
K I N O

It's a great game, but it's not a great metroidvania:
>map is the same
>no completely optional moobility upgrades - all required for true ending
>it's pretty much the same road every time - even steel soul speedrun challenge is not hard at all

Symphony of the Night is the game that cointed the term "Metroidvania." It's an action RPG with Castlevania combat and Super Metroid world design. Just because a game has the latter doesn't make it a Metroidvania, just a Metroid inspired game, I.E, Metroid-like. Metroid and Metroid-likes have absolutely nothing in common with Metroidvania except for the Metroid elements, so why would such a game be called a Metroidvania?

>it's pretty much the same road every time
Really? You have a lot of options of how you tackle the dreamers and I've met many people who dropped into Deepnest on their first playthrough and actually got to City of Tears with the tram from Kingdom's Edge.

Who?

You are just as bad for giving that shitposter attention.

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its also not in metroid going by that logic metroidvanias aren't even in the genre named after it

This post has achieved maximum brainlet status, to the point where it's difficult to deduce what user means. If you're saying Metroid games aren't Metroidvania games, then yes, that's 100% correct.

I agree.

I love Hollow Knight but as some others have pointed out, it's really just a Metroid like. There are no -vania elements to it. It's an exploration focused platformer.

What made SotN a fusion was taking the Metroid elements and adding the RPG mechanics, equipment, drop mechanics, spells, etc. And obviously changing the setting significantly. While these weren't Castlevania elements before SotN
they were absolutely NOT Metroid elements and obvioisly they carried into future Castlevania games.

If you remove all of that and just pick up new mobility options and stronger attacks, as in Hollow Knight, it's just a Metroid game. An extremely good Metroid game, but just that.

>90% of Hollow Knightfags have not played La-Mulana
No wonder they think their mediocre game is special

Mechanically boring as hell, and you fags play with guides anyhow so that defeats the purpose of the puzzles.

Correct. Metroid is not a Metroidvania. Metroidvanias refer to the Castlevania games that incorporated Metroid like elements, along with RPG mechanics that didn't exist in either game, to make a new genre.

When you only copy the Metroid elements but none of the -vania elements, you have a Metroid like.

why do I see some guy with whirrrrrrrrrrrrrr in his name
is that the one with the snoy anal voring the nintendo fag
or is that the doujin about the yuru yuri girls

>Metroidvanias
*Metroid-likes

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It’s funny how totally accurate this post is in every single way, shape and form

>Mechanically boring
i.e committing to jumps is hard so the game is bad
Just as expected coming from someone that plays a game with platforming where momentum does not matter.
Also, most people that played La-Mulana and the sequel on launch did not use guides, at most they discussed the game in the threads. I might still have a notebook with every note I took from the game.

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Really boring and really gay. Looks like ass too.

and that's a good thing

>i.e committing to jumps is hard so the game is bad
No, the whole game is boring as shit and the its only appeal is puzzle solving. Combat and platforming are equally mind numbing in La Mulana.

The “girl in smash” thread is over. You can fuck off now.

Literally gay bugs in it too, but oddly enough Yea Forums gets very very mad when you bring it up :^)

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the fuck are you even talking about?

Bloodstained seems like a true metroidvania no?
LM is...acquired taste, the movement and combat options are restrictive for both casual and moderately good players too. Not to forget the draw of the game is the archeological "take a note of everything" aspect and you get a real niche within a niche genre.

I bought the game this morning and have been trying to beat hornet for the past hour or so...

Bye Yea Forums

NO MIND TO THINK
NO WILL TO BREAK
NO VOICE TO CRY SUFFERING

>blocks your path
how can nu-indie amateur trash even compete

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>get successfully Kickstarted
>doesn't include pictures of fucking ugly backers
>doesn't include my cat as an out of place enemy

Do not support these ungrateful devs.

>Castlevania
When people say metroidvania the vania means games like SOTN. Noone gives a shit about the older castlevanias.

I've played HK, Guacamelee 1/2, Ori.
Throw some other Metroidvanias at me

Tell me how to into All bindings Zote sensei. Fuck me that fucker is harder than Radiant AR

Those things aren't nearly as bad as letting hundreds of backers write their own characters and backstories that completely break immersion.

It's pretty bad when the devs can't even decide on an artstyle for the portraits, so you have Anime Girls next to Balder's Gate NPCs.

Axiom Verge is good. You need to play Symphony of the Night though, it is the absolute shit.

Why doesn't anyone route a 112% with glitches and any means possible? I'd like to see thst.

>axiom verge
>1:1 super metroid clone
>metroidvania
lol

>Symphony of the Night
Is emulated PS2 version good?

Not really. That's just assuming every portrait in the entire castle has the same artist.

sorry i played through hollow knight twice (second time with all dlc)

everyds metrovania castlevania is already better than this game and rabi ribi is levels above it.

bloodstained easily takes the crown with sotn

La-Mulana is garbage

All Metroid games including (especially) AM2R
Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow
Axiom Verge
Environmental Station Alpha

Still the unchallenged emperor of Metroidvanias.
right guys?
RIGHT?

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cope

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Hahaha, right? He is retardedly strong when his spawns don't die in one hit. There's no trick to beating him. You just have to get good. I actually made a completely new game file where I didn't have a Pure Nail just so I could actually practice his fight. I can upload that save if you'd like.

I'll list some ACTUAL Metroidvanias:
>Symphony of the Night
>Circle of the Moon
>Harmony of Dissonance
>Aria of Sorrow
>Dawn of Sorrow
>Portrait of Ruin
>Order of Ecclesia
>Apotheon
>Dead Cells
>Timespinner
>Salt and Sanctuary
>Death's Gambit
>Chasm
>Unworthy
>Valdis Story: Abbysal City
>Unepic
>Dust: AN Elysian Tail
>Void Memory
>Usurper
>Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night

All of these games, regardless of quality, are legitimate Metroidvanias that fit the blueprint laid out and defined by Symphony of the Night.

These are NOT Metroidvanias:
>Axiom Verge
>Cave Story
>Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon
>Cave Story
>Guacmelee 1 and 2
>Iconoclasts
>Hollow Knight
>Rabi-ribi
>Strider
>Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet
>Shadow Complex
>Environmental Station Alpha
>The Messenger
>Momodora series
>Ori and the Blind Forest

Next thread:

Fuck off with your falseflagging, nigger.

>Symphony of the Night
>laid blueprint for METROIDvanias

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Yep, METROIDVANIAS. Metroid doesn't define the genre, which is where the misconceptions lie.

>Dead Cells is a Metroidvania but ESA isn't
lmao this nigga

Kind of a stretch to call it a metroidvania. It's more of a hybrid megaman wannabe

Pantheons and this.

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It's got the combat, RPG elements and focus on a vast playstyle defining arsenal, which are the defining elements of a Metroidvania when combined with the Super Metroid world design.

Terraria actually copies those elements from SotN, but doesn't use the Super Metroid world design, thus isn't labeled as a Metroidvania. It goes both ways. These things combined are what make something Metroidvania. ESA is entirely a Metroid clone, so obviously it isn't labeled a Metroidvania game.

cope

Well, you're not replying. But I don't want to have uploaded this for nothing:
mediafire.com/file/43ntjqg0naom8n9/user3.dat/file
5 Masks, Old Nail, no dead Dreamers, all base spells (if you want better, upgrade them yourself, it's like a 10 minute walk), all charms and abilities except for Shape of Unn and Isma's Tear, all pantheons and bosses in Godhome unlocked except for Absolute Radiance and Winged Nosk.

Now go and do pic related.

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Yeah, that's what I thought. Typical sub-80 IQ response, lmao. :3

I feel like that definition is too castlevania-like (specifically SoTN) to me to be honest I don't think the term metroidvania is a good one at all as everything feels too one or the other leaving many games that are practically metroidvanias but miss out one or two little elements that completely disqualify them from the title(in some people's eyes)

also castlevania symphony of the night has the elements of the castlevania side of metroidvanias (obviously) but also has the world design of metroid too and thus doesn't the metroid side of the name feel redundant, at least going from the standards from your posts

Metroidvania is a portmanteau of Metroid and Castlevania. If it lacks the elements of one, it can't be labeled a Metroidvania. Why would the term need to exist if it simply referred to the Super Metroid elements? Having only elements of Super Metroid isn't enough to label something Metroidvania.

Symphony of the Night specifically defines the entire genre, and for over a decade, Metroidvania had a specific meaning that referred to these games that are now called "Igavania."

What's this guy's deal?

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yea thats what the end of my post was saying castlevania encompasses the whole definition of a metroidvania so the metroid part of metroidvania is just unnecessary and thus a new name would be better I guess Igavania works but I thought that was literally meant for describing castlevania as SoTN and games like it are quite different to the original castlevania platform heavy games and that other games outside the franchise couldn't have that title

Look I like Hollow Knight a lot but this faggotry needs to stop

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i played it for the first time the other week
the difficulty spike near the end of this stuff is frankly fucking ridiculous
the boss rush was hard but at least doable if you memorized the boss patterns and didn't take much damage until the core and abused misery spawns to have infinite HP.

hell was just pure bullshit, i decided to say fuck it at that part and modded a save point after lv3

Nope, sotn

sont is dogshit

That's cute

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Metroidvania is just used way too liberally and inaccurately. The term itself is fine if used correctly, which is why Metroid-like needs to be used more to refer to the games that are labeled as Metroidvania but only have the usual Super Metroid elements and nothing of what defines Metroidvania.

Igavania is used now because Metroidvania lost its meaning. Iga himself even uses it and marketed Bloodstained as such.

>60 hour safe file
Damn you're autistic.

>yea thats what the end of my post was saying castlevania encompasses the whole definition of a metroidvania so the metroid part of metroidvania is just unnecessary and thus a new name would be better
Probably, but the reason Metroid is kept in "Metroidvania" is because Symphony of the Night didn't spawn out of thin air. So it's done "out of respect", if you'd like.

>Hollow Knight
I disagree. To me Hollow Knight may not be an RPG, but it definitely has that ability to grind and thus more easily bypass challenges that was the whole point of RPG elements in Symphony of the Night.

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>Hollow Knight
It's got linear character progression. Metroidvania games have huge arsenals of weapons and armor that change how you play the game. Hollow Knight mostly just has the usual Super Metroid health/energy and linear movement upgrades that allow you to move on to the next area.

What about badges?
Those are customizable to suit different playstyles.

What said. It's still not an RPG because your decision isn't final on which badges to use, but Hollow Knight most definitely has lots of items that let you customize the experience for yourself.

It's a really fun game, and far beyond simple "Metroid-like" because it's not just about unlocking a few movement upgrades here and there. There's a major emphasis on combat which is, again, why RPG elements were added to Symphony of the Night: so that less skilled players (not because of the platforming, but the combat) could have an easy time playing the game if they chose to grind it out.

>Hollow knight
>Not a metroidvania
This is the most autistic, contrarian opinion of all time.
Look at any article/review/description of HK online. Nearly all of them call the game a metroidvania.
>but people calling it a metroidvania doesn't make it one!
Yes it does. That's how language works; words (and genres) are defined by popular usage. Not the preferences of turboautists on the internet.

>That's how language works
Misconceptions don't change definitions. People can call something whatever they like, but they still won't be correct, even if more autists join in and starts calling it that.

I wouldn't say Charms affect your playstyle in any meaningful ways. Mostly, people use some combination of Quick/Deep Focus/Grub Song and either nail extension or damage increase. The rest are mostly novelty charms without any real use.

>Misconceptions don't change definitions.
The only person with a misconception is you; if 99% of people define a word a certain way, and you happen to fall in the 1% that does not, who do you think is mistaken?
A google search of "hollow knight is not a metroidvania" will back up just how few people agree with you.
You speak with objectivity as if your opinion is infallible, but we're talking about language (which is mutable and follows popular convention). You're clearly in the minority of people who use the word in the way you've defined, and are thus mistaken.

>A google search of "hollow knight is not a metroidvania" will back up just how few people agree with you.
And they're all wrong, which is something most people who enjoy the genre know. The person who made the game that defined the genre started calling it Igavania because the original term had lost all meaning over the years, courtesy of dumb dumbs like you and indie devs.

No matter how much you try to say otherwise, the definition of Metroidvania will never apply to any of the games listed above. If anything, you're doing Metroid a disservice by calling games that's solely inspired by it Metroidvania and giving credit where it isn't due.

Well obviously there will be options that are better than others, the Castlevania have practically useless equipment aswell.

>finally beat the game last night
I played it through the Xbox PC Pass. Should I replay it now on Switch before my interest wanes, or should I move on?

>people in here arguing so vigilantly about a genre
You people are almost as insufferable as roguelike elitist faggots.

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Bros, what's the secret to beating the dream version of the first boss, it and nightmare king grim are the only things I have left outside of godmaster

The difference is it has weapons that change how you play, many of which have unique abilities you can perform with a special input. The charms aren't nearly as impactful, and like stated above, there's a very small amount of "viable" and worthwhile combinations.

>everyone but me is wrong
kek seriously? do you realize how narrow-minded that sounds?
>The person who made the game that defined the genre started calling it Igavania
Great, then make posts saying how HK isn't an Igavania; don't really see your point here.
> If anything, you're doing Metroid a disservice
You're acting as though I was the first person who decided to call these games Metroidvanias. I'm not even trying to argue whether or not the terminology itself is accurate, but clearly popular usage has dictated what the word means; whether you like it or not, HK is a metroidvania (according to a definition that is almost universally accepted). Arguing otherwise is textbook contrarianism.
Also just a quick reminder that refusing to let go of mental rules and definitions you've created is a hallmark sign of autism. have a nice day user.

Marrow

the best castlemania of all time

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when's the new dlc coming out?

Damn user you have some serious shit taste

>kek seriously? do you realize how narrow-minded that sounds?
What you meant to say is "those who are wrong are, well, wrong"
>Great, then make posts saying how HK isn't an Igavania; don't really see your point here.
What that tells you is that a tremendous amount of morons incorrectly labeled games that were solely inspired by Super Metroid and a term that refers to the actual genre had to be made, I.E, the labeling continues to be wrong.
>I'm not even trying to argue whether or not the terminology itself is accurate
The definition has been skewed because there's been a decade since the last true Metroidvania was released. With the release of Bloodstained, this distinction will be known to the new generation of gamers that mindlessly mimic indie devs who incorrectly label their games.

>this distinction will be known to the new generation of gamers that mindlessly mimic indie devs who incorrectly label their games.
This is MOSTLY the fault of the Steam user tags. I swear you can find Megaman clones with the Metroidvania tag.

I see, you haven't gotten past hornet yet, gotcha.

I've done all the warrior dreams except from Markoth and Elder Hu. I've not done any dream bosses.

>search through large map
>fight enemies and bosses
>Find upgrades that let you access new areas or deal more damage
>kill enemies to get hp or ammo
You literally can't say hollowknight isn't a metroidvania without saying Metroid isn't a metroidvania

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Metroid isn't a Metroidvania. None of the Metroid games are.

>genre literally named after the metroid franchise
>metroid isn't part of it
You do realize that you sound absolutely retarded, right?

>dumb fucking opinions

...So HollowMetroidias?

I just finished gato-roboto and it's really fun to play and cute, although it's like 2 hours long

I'm playing Hollow Knight for the first time right now - the order you get things is definitely quite nonlinear. There are a couple things you always get near the start - the dash cloak in particular. But after that the order is pretty flexible. The double jump for example was one of the last major things I got, but I could have very easily got it much earlier in the game if I'd known where to look and gone after it.

Castlevania is also part of the name. Are pre-SotN Metroidvanias as well? Metroidvania refers to a specific type of game, and no Metroid game fits that definition. Why even call it Metroidvania if all it needs to be referred to as such is Metroid world progression? Are you really incapable of making the distinction between what defines Metroid and what defines Symphony of the Night and all the following games in its genre?

I hate it when devs pull that shit.
But it makes things easier to refund.

Wall of autism

What you really mean to say is "hurr durr, im too retarded to know the difference and will continue incorrectly labeling games just because idon't know any better lmao." Profound.

Cringe.

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As an outsider to the debate who may, depending on definition, have never played a metroidvania game, could you give a few examples of true metroidvania games and explain what features they have in common that make them count as metroidvania?

>mario isn't a platformer because he doesn't jump on the right type of platforms

inb4 'i'm not going to spoonfeed you'

Dawn of Sorrow?

It's been argued to death in this thread. Just scroll up. There's even a list that show games that have the same mechanics that define the genre and those that only have Super Metroid elements. In short, Metroidvania games are action RPGs with a focus on melee combat and a large arsenal of playstyle altering weapons and armor acquired from enemy loot tables. These elements are all omitted from the games people now refer to as Metroidvania. The only common thing they have is the Super Metroid world design/progression, making the accurate term Metroid-like.

>hurrr im just pretending to be retarded

>focus on melee combat
>weapons and armor acquired from enemy loot tables
You are quite possibly the only person on the internet claiming these elements are requirements for the genre.
>The only common thing they have is the Super Metroid world design/progression
Funny you gloss over this part, when nearly everyone agrees it is THE defining variable that makes the genre what it is.

>hurr I'm actually retarded

Where did the name "Metroidvania" come from then? Which Metroid games and Castlevania games inspired the name, and which aren't actually Metroidvania?

>>Dead Cells
>>Actual Metroidvania
this is fucking retarded

Salt and Sanctuary has no right being as good as it is.

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have sex

>Funny you gloss over this part, when nearly everyone agrees it is THE defining variable that makes the genre what it is.
Not true, and this is where the misconceptions lie. Why call it Metroidvania when what you really want refer to is Super Metroid? What does the "vania" part have to do with anything if not the specific elements of that particular game. There were plenty of Metroid clones before SotN, and they are referred to as just that.
Yeah, wow, it only has all and builds upon all the mechanics from SotN except for familiars. Procedural generation or not, the game still has the same world progression as Super Metroid, I.,E, non-linear movement upgrade based exploration.

>the same world progression as Super Metroid
In Dead Cells, individual parts of the maps are broken up into zones (that cannot be repeated/backtracked through on a single run).
That alone disqualifies it from being a Metroidvania.

You mean it disqualifies it from being Metroid-like. You unlock plenty of paths and choice of progression as you get more movement upgrades like wall running and teleportation. Funny how you would disqualify a game that plays very much like the game that defined the whole genre for not being more similar to Super Metroid.

user, I just don't think that's how people use the word. I think when people say a game is a Metroidvania, they mean it has the elements common to the two defining games of the genre: Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night. Namely, an interconnected world that opens up as you gain new abilities and items, along with action platforming gameplay.

How is that not true if it's the metric everyone uses for designating Metroidvanias? Not sure I've ever heard people mention "weapons and armor acquired from enemy loot tables" when talking about the genre.
>this is where the misconceptions lie
It's not a misconception if you're the only person arguing against it. You're the only person using this definition and you aren't even willing to hear out the people disagreeing with you.
Honestly all of your posts just come off as someone who prefers the Castlevania series and is butthurt that Metroid has proven to be the more influential series in the past decade or so.

Yeah, I yearn for a comfy HK discussion thread but all I see on the catalog these days is obvious falseflag bait.

That wasn't the case for nearly a decade. There's always been a clear distinction between Super Metroid and Metroidvania.

No, it's shit but here are some other good metroidvanias you can try:
>Environmental Station Alpha
>La Mulana 1 & 2
>Valdys story
>Rain World (kinda metroidvania-ish)
see above

And I funny that you're calling everyone wrong for ignoring half of the term 'Metroidvania', but have no problem at all ignoring the other half that you happen not to like.

>user, I just don't think that's how people use the word.
Pretty much the logical end of the discussion right here.

Then where does the metroid part of metroidvania come from, if not super metroid?

> You unlock plenty of paths and choice of progression as you get more movement upgrades like wall running and teleportation.
You unlock these 20 minutes into the game and unlock no new movement upgrades for the rest of the game

The flashback when you climb out of the abyss is pretty kino

Casuals would refer to it as whatever people label it without bothering looking up the actual definition and the games that spawned the term. This is a constant argument any time there is a Metroidvania thread anywhere on the internet, even on Steam. I love both Classicvania, Igavania and Metroid. I just know the difference between them, and so should you.

You're an absolute moron. Games that only use the "Metroid half" of Metroidvania are Metroid clones, or Metroid-likes. Why would MetroidVANIA refer to games like Axiom Verge and Environmental Station Alpha, which are Metroid clones and nothing else?

It's called Metroidvania because it's an action RPG version of Castlevania with Super Metroid world design. There's no other reason. A game that doesn't contain the design philosophies of BOTH games will never a Metroidvania.

That's not SotN nor is it Super Metroid. Very good game but I wouldn't call it the best.

I guess Super Metroid isn't a metroidvania

>This is a constant argument any time there is a Metroidvania thread anywhere on the internet
Kek, you shitting up every thread you enter with your autism doesn't automatically make make it a widely discussed debate user.

You know it.

It's adorable that you would think that. You're so insecure and paranoid about being wrong that you create boogeymen.

>Casuals would refer to it as whatever people label it without bothering looking up the actual definition
Show me an example of the definition as you conceive it (written by someone other than you) anywhere on the internet user. Show me where the 'casuals' are supposed to be looking this up.

If everybody's using a word in a way you think is wrong, then they aren't the ones who are wrong.

you've been incredibly adversarial and dogmatic with everyone in this thread who disagrees with you, I don't see how that's me creating boogeymen.

Hollow Knight is a great game.
Hollow Knight is also overrated as fuck and the way the fanbase act like its the best thing ever is fucking nauseating.

>It's called Metroidvania because it's an action RPG version of Castlevania with Super Metroid world design. There's no other reason. A game that doesn't contain the design philosophies of BOTH games will never a Metroidvania.
So to be clear, if a game is a Metroidvania it must also be a Metroid-like? If it's not Metroid-like, it can't be Metroidvania?

Based false-flag kun does it again

>Dead Cells
>fucking Chasm
>but not LM1 or 2
procedural generation is not metroidvania

How many genders are there?

That's restricted to this conversation, dumb dumb. See, you believe I'm all over the internet and part of every conversation about the topic, being the only person with this belief. That's a boogeyman.

Don't hate people for liking something. That's the gayest shit. Sure, they're wrong, but it's only because they don't know about the better games. Instead of getting buttmad that someone thinks their favourite game is, well, their favourite game, you should tell them to play La-Mulana or Rain World or something.
Two, in western society.

>you believe I'm all over the internet and part of every conversation about the topic
No because I don't think anyone else is having a conversation on this topic. Go ahead and link me some people making the same argument you are regarding metroidvanias.
>dumb dumb
yikes. have sex.

The base description of Metroidvania is that it's a game that uses game design and mechanics from both Metroid and Castlevania. The vast, vast majority of games considered Metroidvania only have elements from Super Metroid, making it inherently incorrect. In other words, having the Metroid map doesn't make something a Metroidvania. It's not rocket science, nor should it be a difficult concept to grasp for anyone without a double digit IQ.

There was a 300 post thread on the Bloodstained forums just a few days ago. It's all virtually in every gaming community, especially apparent if you search for Igavania.

Metroidvania because Super Metroid did it first and SOTN expanded upon the formula, it's an all encompassing term and not something ultra specific, hence why it's named based on two popular games of similar genres.

kek, did you even read my post? I said 'written by someone other than you' and you proceeded to quote yourself. why don't you give us a link of anybody other than yourself arguing in favor of your definition?

>you don't know her, she goes to another school.
sure thing pal.

Couldnt get past the floaty ass jump

i still don't like the idea of backtracking much. i didn't enjoy going to old places and trying to find where i need to go because it's in some old area down a path i couldn't access before.

Just look up the term and click on the first link. It's stated, clear as day. Any definition of the term will state as such, thus any game you label as Metroidvania that only incorporates Super Metroid elements will always be incorrectly labeled. Objectively.
steamcommunity.com/app/692850/discussions/0/1649917420737869439/

That is wack.

I don't know what that means, darling.

You're gonna have to give up half the words you're currently using if you don't want to use words which have changed definitions in time.
I do understand your butthurt -- it rubs me a bit the wrong way, too -- but that's just how language works. Nowadays it means

He he k

So much empty useless space though?

Nah, famalam, right is right, wrong is wrong. With the release of Bloodstained, modern gamers will come to see the distinction between Metroid and Metroidvania, though at this poitn, people will probably keep rolling with Igavania instead since it's almost a lost cause at this point because of idiocy.

My autism will not permit me to do that, sadly.

I'll make it simple for you.
Most of the gameplay elements found in Super Metroid are found in SOTN, and vice-versa.
They're called metroidvanias because they share the same core elements, and so do HK, Valdys Story, ESA etc... but Dead Cells doesn't as it only takes some elements that belong to SOTN alone.

>famalam
user.

And that's the beauty of language. It's elastic as shit. I for one will continue to use the word metroid-like, but I'm not gonna bother 'correcting' anyone else for using the word metroidvania.

>I for one will continue to use the word metroid-like, but I'm not gonna bother 'correcting' anyone else for using the word metroidvania.
And no one will have any problem with it, I'm sure. Unfortunately the call of sanctimonious smugness is too tempting for some to resist.