Why can't zoomers handle the stealth genre?

Why do americans call their Girls boats?

I was just going to say they require patience. But this is much more insightful. Not only do these games require patience ( something being selectively bred out of each generation) but they are punished for their lack of it. When's the last time you've seen someone under the age of 18 experience any kind of punishment?

This

you are literally literally LITERALLY autistic

in standard context it usually means fat user

I never got the joke
Did she call the girl fat?

>non-brit asking 'why do americans X'

Shocked tbqh

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Coming back to it after years of MGS and playing for score was a mistake.
>your OP long range nonlethal options still work amazingly
>but the enemy gets set off into alert if you move above the slowest speed near them
>and they can see you if the light is anywhere above pitch black, so you have to shoot each and every light
I actually missed the ability to roll into alerted enemies, draw a pistol, and not have it go against me unless I was shooting for Big Boss rank.

during the conversation it seems Anna has been setting Sam up on blind dates and the last one may have been on over weight woman

>mfw Sam asks for a raise when he's standing in a bank vault surrounded by gold and settles for 25 cents more an hour

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Most stealth games are extremely short and can be beaten quickly in a single sitting.

Granted you have to learn the game very well to do that, but you can eventually rea h a level of skill where you can rush through levels undetected.

With MGS now dead and Sekiro killing the chance of a Tenchu revival, Hitman is really the last bastion of the genre at this stage.

there's line of sight too retard, you don't have to rely on the dark 100% of the time if you're good at the game
grabbing enemies who are moving is broken though that shit is rough

This.

They ARE interested in stealth games, but theres like no good modern stealth games, because the devs think the only way to sell Stealth is to make them into Action which is untrue.

Conviction, Blacklist, Assassins Creed, Metal Gear Solid have all gone the route of thinking that turning your game into an action game is the only way to sell stealth, despite there still being a HUGE interest in stealth.

The problem is with the devs, not the consumer.

>we'll never see a stealth game as kino as this again

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After Thiaf I'd honestly prefer they leave the series dead than try to revive it. The only people I'd trust with it are Arkane and the devs of the Dark Mod.

I'm not sure about that. There seems to be a huge "fuck stealth" mentality among consumers. There's this widespread mentality that stealth is boring and/or hard. Have you seen gameplay footage of the average person playing the new Hitman games for example?

Everyone except fans of the series seems to be terrible at them.

Boring as fuck when streamed so nobody buys them

look at it this way, it can't get any worse than Thi4f

Kids these days don't even have the patience for fucking turn based games, what makes you think they could handle stealth games?

Well of course people go the action route when you give them all the tools they need and don't punish them for their actions.

The early splinter cells only gave you 12 bullets for each enemy, and the enemies would get better and better equipment like Flashlights and Armor the more you got caught.
MGS5 does the same thing but to a lesser degree
Stealth games thrive on needing to punish the players for going loud by either having enemies "adapt" to them, or making the fight unwinnable if you go loud.
Plus, making an open world stealth game is literally going against the genre and asking for people to get bored and start going loud. The only game it really worked for was Assassins Creed.

Why doesn't someone just make a fast-paced stealth game? One where you avoid getting seen by constantly staying in motion doing acrobatics and parkouring and stuff??

It don't need to be another Thief, just a game with similar gameplay.

That's a pretty naive way of looking at it. How about they make the next Thief game a Mass Effect clone like what Ubisoft did to Asscreed.

It's called MGS1 and 2

Even the new Hitman games really hold your hand. You have wallhack, the "opportunities" stuff that literally spoonfeeds you what to do, autosaves, etc.
You can't even play without them as the "Professional" difficulty or whatever it was called that forces you to not use all that shit is only unlocked after beating the levels and besides zoomers probably won't even touch it.

We need a stealth game like the old Splinter Cells or Blood Money.

Splinter Cell Conviction did that to an extent and it's safe to say they didn't succeed.

Tenchu and Shinobido are literally this. Sadly, they're less successful than Assassin's Creed, because platforming and moving elegantly in the former takes skill rather than just holding down a designated parkour button.

They're impatient little retards

Chaos Theory truly was leaps and bounds ahead of the first two games. The dialog had so much flavor, even NPC interrogation was usually cool to hear instead of just a way of completing an objective.

AC is barely a stealth game though.

>you can't play without them
You can turn everything off and are encouraged to do so. Master difficulty in 2018 can also be played immediately. The new Hitmans are significantly harder than Blood Money if you turn all the handholding features off.

this in combination with passive gameplay where you avoid conflict as opposed to action games where you engage head on.

This Tenchu Z is exactly that. Though you still have moments where you have to wait but if you can't do that at all you should just kill yourself.

MGS & Splinter Cell Conviction

This is a controversial opinion, but I think combat should be viable, but you should be punished if you allow the situation to escalate too much.

This means you can be detected and realistically keep a low profile by silencing the witness without turning the game into a full blown action game.

>You can turn everything off and are encouraged to do so
Huh? I can't comment on the latest Hitman but I just completed the first (2016) one and if anything the tutorial encouraged me to use those things. And I can't say I really searched for the option to turn them off but it didn't give me or point me to one either besides the Master difficulty that was unlocked when I beat a level.

Basically this, but "problem" with stealth game is they require a specific mindset to enjoy. One that finds enjoyment in seemingly avoiding traditional action scenes and finding enjoyment in tense segments of sneaking around undetected. It simply doesn't hold wide enough mainstream appeal.

Arkane would add in a skill tree, level ups, experience points. I wouldn't trust them with Thief. I wouldn't trust any modern developer with it.

Yeah if you're one vs one and maybe one vs two you should be able to kill your opponent.

It's all buried in the options menu, but it was always there since 2016. It's dumb they had to keep those things on by default, but I suppose it's a minor concession for casuals.

Stealth became a mechanic that can be tacked on a game, because it isn't interesting enough to be a genre.

This, there's so many games where the devs added some shitty half-assed stealth mechanic.

not really. it more likely comes down to not being made with big budgets publishers like because they bring big returns.

Tenchu Wrath of Heaven both had a similar system to this. Detections would simply deduct from an overall score and kills of any kind would increase the score to some extent. This meant that as long as you had enough points to meet the score threshold you could still get the best rating and kill one or two enemies in direct combat.

27 year old boomer here.
stealth is boring I just want to kill

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY NEW COMMANDOS GAME???

The studio that made Shadow Tactics NEEDS to buy the rights to Commandos.

I really need to play the tenchu games, I have them all downloaded, I just need to do it.
But fuck, the one I wanna play the most is Tenchu Z, stuck on XBOX.

FPBP
The killer is that many stealth games are easy to play, it is only a challenge if you are a perfectionist.

Just kill stealthily.

Z is the only major one I haven't played for the same reason. I can vouch that 1, 2 and Wrath of Heaven are all excellent though.

I wish From would at least release a HD collection for them.

More like getting punished for not knowing the level and enemy placement, its trial and error.

It's the opposite for me, Z is the only one I know but I never owned it. And yeah From are bitches with the series.

I hate how every stealth game tries to penalise you for killing. Even Human Revolution objectively favours the non-lethal route.

I wish we had more games like Tenchu that actually encouraged lethal stealth.

It depend on the game, in Thief for example you have no reason to go kill everybody. In Metal Gear there's no reason not to do it since in story everybody know you infiltrate the base and are searching for you and the more you kill the less you'll have to fight later.

The scoring in Tenchu Z was really disappointing, you got more points for stealth kills than you lost for getting detected, so you could get the max rank even if you were spotted 20 times. Just run away, hide, run out and stealth kill one guy, get spotted, run away etc. The earlier Tenchu games you took a massive hit if you got spotted just ONCE. To get Grand Master you needed to be undetected AND stealth kill every enemy in the map. Having different sets of guard patterns was really cool as well.

in human revolution you can't really do a lot of hacking if you take the ghost route, you are essentially denying yourself access to minor story elements and security manipulation. and you often have to take a boring path through vents as opposed to enjoying the scenery.

Because they're too busy using individual experience to generalize perceived difficulties other people whom they've chosen to disagree with may or may not have in an effort to make themselves feel better about how irrelevant they are in the modern world, and work to make those generalizations into a reason why they are superior in some way, when in reality they're just small, boring people.

Well shit what happened to my english, that's an ugly sentence.

stealth games are generally boring if you don't get a thrill waiting for camera to pan the other direction. its hard for a stealth game to be appealing without at least having good characters or plot, unlike shooters or other genres that can be lots of fun despite shitty plots.

basically, the stealth genre is a dead-end.

>It's hard for a stealth game to be good if it isn't good.

That's an arbitrary carry over from autistic Thief players. HR encourages you to knock everyone out. It gives maximum XP and allows everything you can see and do except kill. And yes, you can knock out every single enemy including the rush at the end without being detected. Bosses are shit we all know.

Agreed. My dad and brother hated that I would play these games while they played Halo. My dad would always say, "I don't know how you can play those games. They're so slow."
I always thought they were dumb. But I know I'm weird. That's okay

I don't like stealth games because a lot of it is just sitting and waiting. I don't care how much thought is behind the sitting and waiting, at the end of the day I'm still sitting and waiting. Imagine playing a racing game where it pauses every 30 seconds and you have to wait for a timer to count down until you can keep playing.

It's not that I can only play fast paced games. I have a lot of hours in Euro Truck as I can switch my brain off and just coast by on autopilot.
But, stealth games require enough attention for me to keep focused. And when all I'm focused on is sitting and waiting, my mind wanders and thinks about other things I would rather be doing.

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This is true, yet I can't think of a single game from current or last-gen that had stealth tacked-on, that I enjoyed. Meanwhile, I can still enjoy games like Splinter Cell or even recent shit like MGSV where stealth was the main focus during game design.

They are working on some new game I think?

but if stealth games require a good plot to be good, doesn't that mean stealth by itself is a bad genre?

Yeah I get this. You're supposed to self-insert as the MC so the stealth is more thrilling, like pretend that you're the guy peeking around the corner trying not to get caught, and if you do, you're dead.
If you're not able to do that and get enjoyment from it, then it's boring.

Really? That sucks. Sounds like it has a similar problem that MGSV's scoring system has. I thought it was annoying in Tenchu 2 that every enemy in the map had to be killed for Grand Master. WoH had the best system by having rank be tied to a score threshold.

As a side note, I have no idea why everyone talks about the first Tenchu, but 2 and WOH barely get mentioned outside of the fanbase. They both improve upon the original in different ways.

knocking everyone out feels like a hollow victory a lot of the time due to how easy it usually is. the issue with deus ex is that you collect lots of cool toys that you won't be able to use if you're doing a ghost run

the issue is that stealth is boring when you can just savescum. it turns tension into tedium.

For whatever reason zoomers like stealth with no option to kill
There’s stealth modes in certain games like spiderman when you had to play mary jane

But no one wants to fucking be mary jane, id much rather sneak around as spider man and eventually getting the kill(stun)

I prefer to do ghost runs. No alarms, no knocking out guards, no interactions with guards. They never know I'm there or else the run was a mistake. That's the most fun to me.

what differentiates splinter cell is that the story is told through contextualising what you can and cannot do, who you can and cannot kill, and who the terrorists are and aren't. this is best exemplified by the LAX mission, in which the bio-terrorists are identified by their higher than normal body temperature, the terrorism in the game is expressed as the idea of biology in a game world. the game plays with illusion, so it's a stealth action game in that the idea of who the terrorists are and who aren't and who the player is in the game world as the secret agent is all encoded into the game world, told through sam as the secret agent and his superior who knows everything and gives the orders to sam, but really to the player.

those tacked on stealth mechanics aren't deep at all
where's the light and sound meters in Far Cry for example?

Right, I used to savescum a shit ton when this genre was big. But nowadays, I like to re-visit those games and just play with the mindset that I'll live with my mistakes.

/thread

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Stealth games should either limit your saves or not have mid mission saving at all. Fuck people who say "if you don't like it, don't use it", improvising when something goes wrong is where stealth games shine.

the stealth levels in the first spider man movie game are god tier.

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Bunch of self righteous cunts in this thread. First of all, Styx sold well enough to warrant a sequel. Secondly, you guys call kids impatient, yet Dark Souls is massively popular.
If zoomers had good modern stealth games, I'm sure they would play them.

It's tedious either way. You're either savescumming and abusing mechanics, or you're potentially replaying long sections of gameplay because you were seen.
Stealth is a flawed genre. It can only be fun in a multiplayer setting where you're hiding from real people instead of trying to game some arbitrary AI system.

No, remove the plot from the Thief games and they're still very good.

Splinter Cell had great atmosphere in the night levels. That helped make it a good experience.

Did you just compare the fucking sneaking sections in Spider Man to true stealth titles like Splinter Cell and Thief?

Knock people over and then kill them.

lol

t. autistic thief speedrunner

Slow = Bad
Fast = Good
That's all

>It can only be fun in a multiplayer setting where you're hiding from real people
>he wasn't around for spies vs. mercs
I genuinely feel bad for people who didn't get a chance to play spies vs. mercs. It was literally the best online experience ever created, unfortunately overlooked because of the massive Halo hype.
You guys missed out.

Develpoers simply don't understand what a good stealth game needs.
>next to no HUD, only the bare minimum of detectability meters and maybe equipped tools
>NO enemy markers, vision cone indicators, minimap, objective marker and other hand holding crap
>guard banter (this one is SUPER MEGA ULTRA imortant with good writing and never done nowadays)
>open ended hub levels with unique interactive elements (think of the bank mission in CT with the proximity lasers that only were featured there)
>fluid movement system without automiatic snapping to walls and ledges, everything must be manual
>good AI which can counter repeated exploitation from the player by changing up behaviour

this. it's not just zoomers either, lots of people in general just don't have the attention span to play a game like Chaos Theory or Thief 2.

so basically the employees at LAX and the terrorists are the same. when the player as sam uses thermal vision to differentiate them based on their heat signatures, the terrorists are basically the game npcs that believe they are living biological entities, the terrorism becomes a meta concept, an idea of illusory power or energy that is cancelled out by the game world and the story told.

They should have savepoints or something related. Or just a whole mission without saving.

Basically, Indie levels of feature creep and the dev budget of an AAA.

stop rubbing it in..

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>hink of the bank mission in CT with the proximity lasers that only were featured there
they were in the Displace offices too

In Dark Souls you're always moving and rolling, in stealth games like Splinter Cell, you're sitting in the dark.

The amount of fan missions without barely any story that are good prove you're wrong.

Splinter Cell and Thief are the only stealth games I'd classify as "slow". Most other stealth games have a lot of stopping and starting when it comes to movement, since they basically boil down to dodging lines of sight.

It doesn't even need very good AI, simply F.E.A.R.-tier is enough. Having them really communicate and use the environemet.

yeah but nobody took that route..i hope..

the vents are the only way to go. just like if you went in the front entrance to the bank, shame on you.

Hey stealth bros is Splinter Cell Double Agent worth checking out? Should I not bother? I have it on PS2

Hitman is best stealth series, because you dont need to hide in shadow all day like autist, you can just wear clothes, and guardians suspects nothing. Best stealth is mixup between stealth and adventure games

the last gen version is the better one

>having any splinter cell game on ps2

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zoomy zoom zooms zummies

It's definitely the most simulationist kind of stealth.

Personally I'm not a big fan of stealth games about managing lighting conditions and sound. I prefer stealth games about high mobility and keeping a low profile.

as experience through the player.

How's the first Splinter Cell game ? I got it for free from Ubisoft but never tried it.

this
fuck off depressed boomers, i'll stick to games that require fast reaction time

Shut up, we just got a bunch of shit 4 years ago. Its not my fault you didnt play any of those

uhh, splinter cell does. you have to think fast based on situations and scripted events of the game's levels. the game tests the player through suddenly changing the context of the game world, like having to stay in the searchlights to avoid the sniper's night vision in pandora tomorrow, or the server room doors suddenly opening.

The best version is on xbawks
>PS2
you poor soul
It's pretty good, albeit quite restrictive

god, Hitman is pure aesthetic.
Good thing we are getting new missions soon

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I mean it's weird that zoomers weren't able? I fucking completed the first splinter cell game when i was 11-12 or so. So why wouldn't they be able to?

Would it at all be possible to make a stealth game with extremely intelligent ai that can actually see past 5 feet away? I know it would make for a very difficult game but I would play it.

They can retard, its just not as marketable anymore to these people

>It's pretty good, albeit quite restrictive
Well I'm gonna try it anyway. I guess the second one isn't bad either ? I'll play them in order.

the second one has some really frustrating levels be prepared

Ok I'll see and I'll prepare my anus then.

You think you want it but you don't.

while not being zoomer I hate being patient just for something to fuck up and having to re-do it all over again

I actually do though. With the right level design and premise it could possibly be the greatest game of all time (for me). I'm just not sure if it could theoretically be done or not.

no patience and adhd, they want the game to play itself

Don't fuck up then.
>extremely intelligent ai
Lol.
>that can actually see past 5 feet away?
Yes it's possible but you'll have to design the whole game around that. It can be like Hitman where you disguise yourself for example.

The second isn't bad at all but it's the worst from the first three.
For me it's CT > SC1 > PT

Tenchu 2 was my favourite PS1 game ever. It was better than 1 in every way and unlocking the Tatsumaru story was a huge surprise, and he played completely differently.

I only got to play it like 2 or 3 times but it was a load of fun.

>tfw you see your teammate getting spotted while they're scaling a pipe and hear them hollering over the mic, you stun the merc, and then you both scramble away to safety

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>Don't fuck up then.
ah yes silly me, let me just have perfect god skills like you user

because the genre has basically the exact same mechanics it did 20 years ago

Part of stealth relies on the AI being somewhat dumb and exploitable. It would be impossible to play skillfully otherwise.

I heard there were two completely separate games?

The one I played you break out of a prison and join some terrorist boys and use their safehouse as a hub. In the hub itself you have lots of sneaking and secrets to discover and the big plot hook is that you end of choosing to kill [REDACTED] or not, from what i remember.

Is there another version?

Yeah you played the PS3/360 version. The other one is the PS2/Xbox version.

I remembered doing some quirky stuff when trying to "ghost" the original deus ex
>liberty island
>rescue gunther
>wait a minute how do i do this without ko'ing guards?

>go to the laser doorway outside the place gunther is held and hack the alarm
>get into the room and slip under the camera where a guard is sitting in front a table outside gunther's cell
>slowly slip into the front of the table crouched

>AI is too dumb to see me even though i'm right in front of him and it's a convenient spot to hide from the other guard patrolling the room and also just right in front of the terminal
>hack the terminal to open the cell and disable the camera
>no reaction from AI or gunther even though cell door is open
>wait for the patrolling guard to go away and throw an unlit flare to distract the sitting guard
>pull out a pistol

>slip into the doorway into gunther's cell and just as gunther's AI activates when i'm in range throw the gun to the floor and jump to the left over the railing
>head to the corner of the cell while hugging the wall as gunther's AI picks up the gun and starts shooting
>guards shoot back and eventually run away to trigger the alarm but it was already hacked
>wait for gunther to finish the massacre

>exit the room to find gunther standing motionless outside the laser doorway
>objective complete with no alarms

Technically I didn't kill anyone and there were no witnesses so I would consider that "ghost" enough. It might as well be that gunther somehow escaped on his own. The funny thing about doing this is that gunther's AI would sometimes consider me hostile and shoot me and that even though I already gave gunther a gun he still asks JC for a weapon. I also don't think it's necessary to disable the laser since for some reason it doesn't trip when gunther passes through, I can't remember though since it has been a long time.

This, I don't get why isn't everybody as godly as me.

Probably one of the worst games.
Blacklist was better.
Or at least go for one of the best stealth games ever with Thief 2.

Chaos Theory was complete and utter shit.
"You have two entry points, okay good, you chose to disable the lights, now you can climb up and get to the roof and inside you can wait 10 seconds per guard for them to pass while you hide in the handy alcove they never look while they walk back and forward, if you get stuck, don't forget, you have your trust knock out rounds and also, your gun is magic and can disable lights and other electrical shit".

Pure ghost with no gadgets in Blacklist is more challenging than any of the shit in CT

Imagine being The guard in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Fisher, where did ya go, all invisible and shit, with your body in the shadows. I totaly cannot see you right there over me with a giant bulb of light behind you. when all he really wants to do is shot the fucking guy right in the balls. Like seriously imagine having to be Soldier and not only have to ignore the guy in plain fucking sight right in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing the giant 3 green lights he carries in his head, while he just sits there, ,load after load, until he perfected the take down. Not only having to tolerate the fucking audacity of hiding in plain fucking sight but her haughty attitude as everyone on here tells you that DANM THATS THE BEST STEALTH GAME EVER MADE. WHERE DID FISHER GO??? IS HE A GHOST OR SOMETHING??? because they're not the ones who have to walk pass there and watch the fucking elephant in the room jump from 2m onto the ground making the biggest sound in the world and you have to act like you didnt noticed it. You trained your entire life in the best boot camps in russia and was survived war zones that were considered suicide missions your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Afeganistam. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his fucking balls while he just hangs in there waiting for you to pass, smugly assured that you are oblivious to the king of stealth(for that is what he calls himself)" , the stealth he worked so hard breaking every single light bulb in the previous room's. And then the player reloads again, and you know you could kill the fucker before he even finishes climbing the wall, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Professional. You're not going to lose your future main character status in a generic FPS game over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.

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However I will say the forced combat is complete shit. But the stealth is far better.

I always wondered how Metal Gear fanboys could accuse Chaos Theory of lacking personality or atmosphere.

Then I saw footage of the PS2 version and it all started to make sense: youtube.com/watch?v=2xejkSNvZLI

i belive he is implying that the ps2 versions are shit while the pc versions are superior

nothing to do with MGS.

your insecurities are showing

I still feel so sad about mugs, was so waiting for a remake of metal gear and metal gear 2 in a more modern style.

yeah fucking hell. they're not even the same game. the replacement of the venus de milo in the bank courtyard with the ugly MCAS sculpture is everything you need to know about the ps2 version.

jesus it sucks.

Damn just look at hose digits though.
I think it is possible. It just would be very hard so it wouldn't sell well. Stealth is already niche as it is.

Mgs2 bruv. Wish there was more acrobatic options, but playing higher level car missions is like a fast paced dance and is pure enlightenment.

Does that game count as infiltration ? It kinda is even if it's a military shooter.

>One where you avoid getting seen by constantly staying in motion doing acrobatics and parkouring and stuff??
mark of the ninja does that if you equip the black suit
it takes your sword away but you dont make sounds when running so you can do stealth parkour

dont care if this is pasta, this is the best thing I've read all year

Forgot pic.

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Playing it a bit like MGSV where you're just staying out of sight, shadows or not, and taking aggressive risks kept it interesting for me.
Though on expert difficulty it was somewhat unfun at times when playing as a ghost and avoiding touching or alerting anyone.
And at points you were forced to kill or knockout people anyways which made the ghost play through kinda pointless.

very spicy spaghetti
>having "good" in your sentence triggers fading captchas

Than you play chaos theory online and you truly feel like a blind retarded AI who keeps saying "I know you're there show yourself!"

"oh shit, the lights!"
>walks right past you

All stealth games of relevance have quick saves except for higher difficulty hitman.

>Damn just look at hose digits though.
Impressive.
>I think it is possible.
It is very possible to increase the distance the AI can see you and make a game a good game with that. For the extremely intelligent AI, it depend on what you call extremely intelligent AI. Some people say that the AI in F.E.A.R. is exactly that but while it is very impressive, perfect for that game and something every dev should look into it is not very intelligent. It uses a lot of tricks to make you think it is, and it works. Something like that should be done.

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Excuse me gentlemen, best stealth game ever made comin' through

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Hitman Walkthrough ? I don't remember playing that, is it a spin-off ?

>>>guard banter (this one is SUPER MEGA ULTRA imortant with good writing and never done nowadays)
Seriously, is this a lost art or something?
The last game that got me good on this were the Arkhams. It was ok in Witcher 3.

dude's got sick peripheral vision

It's Thief, basically.
IMO, main incentive to go stealthy should be hard enemies. Why even bother if you can defeat them in head-on combat?

I think it's good that you're able to defeat them but not if they're 2 vs 1.

This is objectively the best way to play Mark of the Ninja desu

They do though, most zoomers actually play these games instead of just crying about them not being made like you

cos they are full of sea men

Lol that's because they still haven't played them all since they're zoomers. They'll cry like us in a few years.

>t. hasn't played chaos theory

Bait. Codename 47 haters are honorary zoom zooms but I can't see anyone seriously considering it better than 4.

The first three splinter cells are backwards compatible on xbox, btw. One X enhanced too.

Yes, that's how it should be. When you do proper enemies and work on some simulation stealth will arise on it's own. I mean, stealth is a tactic, and idea of a tactic game where certain tactical approaches are forbidden is retarded in a way. Kingdom Come Deliverance pushing me to stealth, and that's great.

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the superior Hitman Walkthrough

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I think MGSV was the most balanced stealth game. You could play it incredibly stealthy if you wanted but also had a lot of room to go berserk and fuck up, but also to recover.

There was almost never any dead-end failstates. Very good recover mechanics with the jumping and reflex shots.

Idgaf what purists think about reflex, it felt good as hell. Make more games like MGSV.

The low poly model with sharp angles makes him a gigachad caricature.

conviction and blacklist encourages tacticool shit
and just by having a shock bolt and sleeping gas you can run whole levels and get ghost

>HOLY CRAP IT'S A REAL LIFE NINJA

So why was Lambert's voice changed for SC2?

Because they require skill, patiences and thought. Zoomers have non othese things and just want to press X to win with flasy shit and XP.

i'm a zoomer and i can handle the stealth genre. But you're true , in general people of my generation are hostile to this genre , i think it's because zoomers have no patience anymore to invest themselves in a game , because playing stealth demands to be emerged in the story/plot /ambience. most of us just prefere to play fast-games as fortnight that are easy to handle and didn't demands to be completely invest , they play just for fun. I think our generation is like that because of internet wich is omnipresent in today's society but i'm not a specialist so i don't know.

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why can't you go non-lethal on conviction?

sam was passing through his mid life edgy phase
that scene on the ofice where you walk with infinite insta kills is pretty good

pandora tomorrow is a tranwreck in every way

I want to lick Grim's ass hole.

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What else made it bad? I played it but never beat it. I remember it played pretty much like a better SC1 to me.

cringe

Far cry 3 was solid.

Blacklist is a good game, fight me.

Nothing but fags who didn't play on max difficulty with all the hud turned off.

Jesus Christ dude don't get me started on that. Everyone fucking runs in Hitman. Holy fucking shit how can you fuck this up so bad. You are the best assassin in the world, you are dressed in a perfectly tailored suit, you kill people by arranging accidents and you fucking RUN?! What the fuck.
Or Thief. In all playthroughs I have ever seen the player has just learnt the routes of guards perfectly and jumps and runs around like a retard because he knows the guard isn't there atm. Nobody fucking stealths. Fuck this gay earth, people are fucking tools and can't even play stealth game properly.

this. the fucking AI is brutal at perfectionist difficulty. Fuckers have binoculars for eyes

>be idort
>own xboxone
>been used pretty much solely as a gamepass box (forza pretty much) recently
>MS does back compat enhancement for the OG splinter cell games
>been playing through SC1 and plan to play through the rest
>also bought hitman 2 + goty upgrade pack on steam for my pc

having a blast. splinter cell was originally an xbox exclusive franchise and literally designed around xbox hardware for all games (which is why the ps2 versions of them were literally completely different games because it was too weak compared to xbox) and i think MS really missed out by making it a full system exclusive in the same way persona is pretty much a sony exclusive now despite being 3rd party. conviction was a 360 exclusive as well.

by not making it*

im trying to play splinter cell on a ps2 emulator sue me
how the fuck can i fix the analog sensibility?
i using a generic gamepad and i have to sneeze at the fucking thing to make it walk slow

how can i fix this? its making the game unplayable

thats why metal gear is better, you can WALK ON THE FUCKING GAME BY USING THE DPAD.

>splinter cell
>ps2

jesus christ. play the pc versions at least since its a port of the original xbox versions (which are the best versions). you have to use 3rd party software like xpadder to make it work with a controller though. i had problems with the game on my GPU like spotlights wouldn't render so it made the game pretty much unplayable for me so i bought the xbox versions and play them on xboxone now but your experience may be different with the pc version. just play the xbox/pc versions at the very least.

youtu.be/1Qsb7s_knsQ
youtube.com/watch?v=gtuXkt-WQEM
youtube.com/watch?v=79E5wxy8Aj4

just play it on pc

goddamn this name was so fucking good. take me back

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The PSN re-releases are also based on the PC versions. 1 and 2 are a little eh but Chaos Theory is great on PS3.

> splinter cell on a ps2 emulator

but why tho?

because Sam went apeshit.
he's fucking brutal

Hitman games should take running into account when calculating score. Running at any point at any distance should automatically gate the player from getting Silent Assassin.

he's playing on a ps2 emu though. the pc versions is based on the original xbox versions anyway which is the one to go for because i think the xbox version had added graphical effects like god rays and cloth physics (xbox was more powerful than most pc's at the time).

>2 are a little eh
because pandora tomorrow is shit

I'm just talking about the quality of the ports. 1 and 2 have some performance issues on PS3 while 3 is smooth sailing. Which is good, because it's the best one.

because pandora doesnt work and the pc version of double agent is shit

Blacklist.

>Hitman games should take running into account when calculating score. Running at any point at any distance should automatically gate the player from getting Silent Assassin.
Fuck off, 2SAfag.

PT works, just needs to apply a fix.

Is it true that Double Agent on the classic Xbox is a completely different and much better game than the version that came out on PC and later console generations?

too bad the fix doesnt fix the fact that the game is shit

There's the last-gen version and the next-gen one, yes. The last gen one is essentially a mission pack for Chaos Theory.

6th gen version was a completely different game made by Chaos Theory team. And Xbox version was the best. PS2 and GC version levels had altered level design due to splitting the maps for loading screens.

While not at all a stealth game, I've been enjoying playing Ghost Recon Wildlands like a slightly more shooter-y MGS5. It even has a proper phased alert system to facilitate it which is nice. It all kind of comes together when you're lethally sneaking through a compound at night in a thunderstorm, take out the generator and flip over to NVGs as you CQB to your targets. I was harsh on Wildlands initially but I picked it up for $20 recently and while it's #notmyGhostRecon it's not a bad time if taken on its own terms.

They're currently remastering OG Commandos
The Shadow Tactics team is releasing Desperados 3, after which who knows what they'll do.
I seem to recall a web page for a Commandos successor but it was by a Russian team and I don't recall being impressed by their previous titles.

>game has a ghost achievement
>you get it by not getting spotted and not killing anyone
>not knocking out anyone isn't a requirement
>not causing suspicion isn't a requirement
>not using items that leave behind physical trace isn't a requirement
>having to reclose the doors you opened isn't a requirement
>not disturbing or misplacing objects isn't a requirement
>leaving the level in the same state as when you started isn't a requirement

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>Why yes, Silent Assassin is my favourite Hitman game, how did you know?

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i really hate games with shitty tacked on stealth
Metro Exodus, none of the Assassin's Creed games have good stealth but especially the newer ones, Horizon Zero Dawn, the list goes on

>MGS1 and 2 are stealth games
lol, good one

Contracts was better. Both C47 and SA had missions that were impossible to finish without alerting, knocking out or killing non-targets

>its trial and error.
Spoken like a true zoomer.

Stealth games give the player a LOT of information about their surroundings, LOTS of audio cues, LOTS of visual cues.

Sounds like you're just one of the impatient zoomers fpbp was talking about.

Zoomers are high on constant stimulus. The moment things get quiet and calm in ANY video game they physically cannot handle it and start to twitch and yell at the wall, screaming that they are bored. It's a generation of doped up kids, but the dope is discord, twitter, youtube and twitch combined.

I think zoomers enjoy the "community" in video games, not video games themselves.

Yea man

Not very good game, but the OST is outstanding.

Blacklist is frustrating because every time you start to say to yourself "actually this game isn't too bad!" it throws something really stupid at you.

I like how incredibly inaccurate Sam is in the first 3 games, especially if he takes more than one shot. I avoid using the shockers but other than that I think it's a very balanced game when it comes to how effective you are.

Arkane could make a great stealth game if they wanted to, but stumbled upon their own great invention with Dark Messiah's combat and I don't think they want to turn away from that. They should go full Dark Messiah or full stealth and they'd make a fantastic game.

>. Ground Zeroes had some of the most fascinating game mechanics I've seen in anything this decade.
Like what

>like having to stay in the searchlights to avoid the sniper's night vision
why wouldn't the sniper take off his night vision goggles?

It fucking sucks. I played through all the originals and tried conviction but didn't like it because of all the tagging mechanics and shit which is completely against how splinter cell originally was. I tried blacklist for literally 10 minutes and hated it and uninstalled it. Worse than conviction even. Neither are true splinter cell games. They're a retarded attempted "progression" to modernize the franchise.

Stealth games should follow the same rules as tactical shooters so enemies can kill you just as easily as you can kill them. Add in bullet penetration and now fighting one guy becomes reasonable but trying to fight multiple targets is suicidal.

1993 here, splinter cell always sucked user. Mgs is a vastly superior game series both mechanically and aesthetically. Splinter cell is more like a strange platformer than a true stealth game and theres no expirimention its just a straight line to the end. Even metal gear 2 not (mgs2) had weapons and items you could use to try different approaches to an encounter. Splinter cell is a poorly lit corridor shooter. Anyway no offense or anything just wanted to let you know you dont really have any taste in stealth games either

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>saw the trailer, game sucks
Thanks for reminding me about the state of this board.

>I love the execute function!

Off yourself

Remember when Absolution came out? Good times.
youtube.com/watch?v=wh3a4stNaf4

I'm not a big fan of stealth games, but I loved Commandos 1 (2 not as much, too much stuff to fiddle with) and ST, group tactics and stealth go perfectly together, it makes the game seem a lot more plausible to me than a super soldier sneaking around alone and increases the gameplay depth.

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nice

>mfw playing MGSV and quickly realizing that straight-up assaulting your enemy rambo-style is easier and more viable than stealth and that the only reason to do stealth is fulton motherbase grinding or self-imposed challenge

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youtu.be/V3YGVAC5qAM

The absolute state of IOI

Alien: Isolation did all this stuff pretty well imo. My favorite stealth game

Very interested in this. Does anyone know any other games with good guard banter?

Is invisible inc good

I don't know why you'd laugh at that objectively true statement

Max Payne 1 & 2

IO seem to have a bloom fetish for some reason.

Hitman 2 looks great apart from the fact that the bloom is genuinely blinding.

i remember when sam asked about snake, and they said him he's out ... that was sad :c

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Genuinely the worst 60 dollars I ever spent, along with Fallout 4 maybe.

not even that lad, this fucking LE QUICKTIME SLOWMO EVENT was killing the stealth, why bother with sneaking when you can save yourself up... glad they gave an option to turn it off... for real, who turned it off ?

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managed to reach level 5 on the emulator
these controls are killing me
other than sam being endearing as fuck these games are kinda boring and realy linear

this. we had some hamachi sessions of versus recently. it's just fucking insane how blind mercs were and behaved like literal bots while we spychads laughed our asses off.

I turned it off, but this caused its own issues. The game was clearly designed with the use of the slowmo in mind, so when you have it off, you have unrealistic bullshit like some guy spotting you for a split second right before you knock him out, but because he technically saw you 200ms before going unconscious, it counts against your perfect stealth run.

They are a lot more linear than people say they are. Probably the most linear stealth games I’ve ever played. Even The Bank bottlenecks you into entering via the roof and your only choice from there is which wing you visit first.

Arkane wouldn't make a Thief game as good as the classics, but they'd at least make one that was worth playing. More than I can say for most studios.

Git gud.

That's true for nearly every PvE game.

reminder that every well-received stealth game is held up entirely by its plot. Stealth gameplay is innately tedious with lots of trial and error.

waiting for a camera to pan the other direction or for a guard to look away isn't gameplay, its just WAITING.

Fuck stealth games, they are boring as fuck.
>just watch the ai circle around for 5 minutes then do the fucking obvious
I'm convinced these types of games are for dunning-kruger kind of people so they can feel smart.

Also 1993 here
>Splinter Cell
>corridor shooter
Just how retarded can you be?

I beat every mission on perfectionist with the highest rating besides the co-op only ones and the only remotely stealth missions were the optional grimm ones.

>bullshit like guy spotting you for half a second and it doesnt count to PERFECT stealth
aaaaaand it teaches you to stealth better, or use enviroment better

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If a soldier is isolated and doesn't have the means or time to communicate to his comrades, why would it matter if he sees me right before I gut him like a fish?

Stealth games are such boring shit. Hate them all.

count your blessings