Banjo

agreed. kazooie is a complete and compact experience whereas tooie, while being larger, is a complete mess because of all the backtracking (even with teleporters)
also, there is no actual challenge in tooie because you dont have lives, so you cant lose progress.

>poster count doesn't change
hmm

Kazooie had plenty of exploration and puzzle solving too, it was just all crammed into a toybox filled to the brim with stuff to interact with, rather than a large empty sandbox with the same amount of stuff spread out for no particular reason

Tooie did a lot of things right that a lot of similar games did wrong. For starters, Tooie's always going to get points for starting the game out with every move from the original still intact and expanding on the duo's potential rather than contriving a reason for them to start over from scratch again. Tooie's not as focused an experience, but it does a good job of looking at Kazooie and saying "what more can we do?" rather than trying to lazily retread the same beats. People that praise Tooie are probably more interested in how it built on Kazooie than on which is the more tightly constructed game.

It definitely had a lot of ideas, and I give it props for really making you feel like you're going on an adventure. I still feel like all around Kazooie is definitely the superior game. Tooie gets a little bit too ambitious for its own good.

Fuck Kazooie vs Tooie wars, it always leads to insanely autistic arguments and people being too stubborn to admit that both games are good but have plenty of flaws between them. Let's list stuff we like about both games.
Kazooie:
>Worlds are dense and accommodate the duo's moveset well
>One of the best hub areas in a video game
>Grunty talking to you as you go through her lair is great and lets you actually get to know the character a bit before you kick her arse
>Nice minor details like Grunty's Lair getting more enemies in it as you open each world
>Fantastic final boss
>Soundtrack is absolutely top notch
Tooie:
>Starts you off will the full moveset from the first game
>Interconnectivity between levels is neat
>World feels more alive and the characters are more interesting and memorable all around
>Levels feel very creative
>Nice minor details like Banjo's voice being deeper because he's gotten older
>Proper boss fights other than just the final boss
>Soundtrack is absolutely top notch

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Kazooie and Tooie are both unfocused.
>Warm up tanktups flippers to open him up
>Get jiggy, get another jiggy inside
>Clear up the Sphinx's stuffed noss
>Get one jiggy inside after doing the challenge and the nose thing because they weren't lazy that time
It's not as perfect as you think it is. Most of the faults people push on Tooie are done in both games plenty.

Huh? To get the jiggy inside Tanktup you have to do Tiptup choir minigame.

>well laid out levels
Bubblegloop Swamp and Mumbos Mountain are absolutely not that, bro. Mumbos just a box with jiggies stacked on top of each other and bubblegloop is just like a small hub area with a bunch of jiggy dispensers branched off with no creativity.

Neither game is perfect. Sure there are great levels in Kazooie but there's plenty of moments where the quality dips as well. Both games have failings.

You get two from tanktup.
>The freebie from just opening him up
>The actual minigame reward inside
Because they simply didn't have enough jiggies for the small worlds of early Kazooie.

What you described is an issue that Kazooie and Tooie are on complete opposite ends of. Kazooie is generally too liberal with giving Jiggies out and you can get them for doing basically nothing, whereas Tooie is too conservative with giving Jiggies out and you have to go through the twelve labours of Banjocules to get a single one. There are exceptions in both games, of course, but neither really strikes a great balance with this overall.

>Tooie's always going to get points for starting the game out with every move from the original still intact and expanding on the duo's potential rather than contriving a reason for them to start over from scratch again.
While I like this in theory, in practice Tooie’s moveset got bloated extremely quickly and it got to the point where 90% of the “moves” were just ability-shaped keys to puzzle-shaped locks.

Basically the only moves that were actual MOVES, things you would use in regular gameplay, were the ledge grab and the different types of egg ammo. All the rest existed only to be used for specific segments or puzzles and served no other purpose except when they were mandatory for progress.

Kazooie did this too (with the shoes and the shock spring jump) but stuff like flying, shooting eggs, the talon trot, wonderwing, etc., actually had meaningful gameplay functions outside of acting as progress gates.

I'm just arguing that Tanktup and the Sphynx aren't any different, sure, clearing up the Sphynx's nose requires you to get on top of a platform first, but bashing Tanktup's feet is also a thing you have to do, as basic as it is.

That's really not super true of Tooie outside of a few infamous examples like the hullabaloo with the triceratops on the train or Canary Mary in the final world

The vast majority of Tooie jiggies are engaging but not unreasonable, which is definitely preferable to Kazooie putting me to sleep early in. And you can also easily unlock the final battle without doing much or any of the bastard jiggies.

Kazooie being a better, more focused game than Tooie isn't that uncommon an opinion. I remember hearing people say it in conversations over a decade ago.

I like Tooie, but it's needlessly tedious and bloated when it comes to progress. I'm replaying it now for the first time in several years (just reached Grunty Industries) and I'm remembering why I play Kazooie so much more often.

Exactly, they're literally no different, except for one key detail.

Tanktup gives you 2 jiggies because Bubblegloop didn't have enough going on.
And the Sphinx gives you 1 because Gobi's Valley had enough space for 10 jiggy challenges.

The other key detail is that one is the 4th world and the other is the 6th, and that’s how difficulty curves work. You have to do a lot more in Rusty Bucket Bay to get a jiggy than you do in Mumbo’s Mountain too.

On the flip side though, Kazooie uses ground pounds and eggs as the solution for about 90% of the games puzzles, which isn't ideal.

Ones lazy and the other isn't, user. If they had enough space they would have done it in the early worlds.

Evidence: Clankers Cavern was big enough for 10 challenges and they did 10 challenges instead of stacking two up on Clankers teeth or some lazy bullshit.

Mumbos Mountain and Bubblegloop are just super lazily made.

Another one is Captain Blubber. If Treasure Trove was designed like Bubblegloop and Mumbos you'd get a jiggy for reaching Captain Blubber and for getting his gold back.

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You think Nintendo will ever buy Banjo back?

I think they'll crossover with him and Kazooie as a selling point again but I don't think they'll buy him back.

This is the same company that has so many successful IPs that they just leave some to rot because they genuinely can't keep them all going at the same time. The only thing they've ever needed outside aid on is M rated franchises.

No. I think it's more likely that Microsoft will simply make a Banjo game for the Switch.

I'M STILL
IN PROJECT DREAM

>The only thing they've ever needed outside aid on is M rated franchises.
Nintendo makes games for everyone, an M rated game made in-house is kind of against what they've always done.

The fuck is this from? I don't remember this

>everyone is replaying banjo after he was announced for smash
>Fucking EVERYONE is realizing how grossly overrated these games are
I'm glad you're all finally breaking out of the nostalgia

>they didn't already do this like 10 years ago when Kazooie and Tooie were released on XBLA
Replaying them on Xbox was how I realized I actually liked Kazooie a lot more than Tooie

Kazooie is an ocean, Tooie can' t even be a puddle. Fuck off.

Witchyworld in Tooie. It's the climb up to the high-dive where you can find a Jiggy.

I'm seeing more people realise how good they are than anything

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STOP EXPOSIN THE BUSINESS

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>wojakposting
Ew a redditor

>That
>A wojak
Hi, tourist

No? It's just been people saying how shit to lie is and how small kazooie is

Calling in that train in Tooie takes forgodammnever tho

Lol the wojakposter thinks anyone is gonna read his posts. Go back.

You know you make it obvious every time you show up in these threads, right?

Why the fuck are there so many Banjo threads recently?

Imagine making Banjoke threads just beacuse of Smash and not because you actually like the chracters and the games. Zoomers deserve death

No one is saying Kazooie is bad

I’m just saying Tooie is better

Dumb mobileposter

He's back.

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>and expanding on the duo's potential
It doesn't really expand on it in meaningful ways though beyond the ledge grabbing (which is great). Splitting the two apart almost always involves a chore of some kind, and the various abilities you get for each of them solo just reflect different kinds of chores. The variety of eggs just amounted to gate-keeping (to shoot a grenade egg is to shoot a fire egg is to shoot an ice egg; there's no difference mechanically). The drill is cooler than the ground pound, but it also effectively replaces it, so it's not much of an expansion either.

*ahem*
BURP BURP BUUURP BELCH BURP BUURP BURP BEEELCH BUUURP BURP BURP BUUURP!

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You can use the regular groundpound to launch yourself off of springy surfaces in Tooie. Which can get you at least one collectible IIRC but I'm pretty sure the old ground pound has a few more instances where it's used as well.

>but I'm pretty sure the old ground pound has a few more instances where it's used as well.
It does (I believe the Test of Strength in Witchyworld requires it, for example), but not very often. My point is that all the instances where you bust something open with the drill could have made just as much sense if you'd busted them open with the ground pound. The drill is much more clever and fun than the ground pound and I'm glad it's in the game, but it's not much of an expansion.

WAHEY

>That Japanese dude who started shouting Wahey when they got into Smash
C U T E

You got a link?

Sadly no

Why do I get the feeling these Kazooie vs. Tooie threads are being made by Stevecucks trying to shitpost?

We never really saw much animosity from either side, all Banjo fans love both games, yet all of the sudden we’re seeing a sudden upsurge of these threads nearly daily now, with some seriously exaggerated opinions that no sane person would agree with about both games.

What’s going on?

youtube.com/watch?v=ygr67F5lSwY
youtube.com/watch?v=E-YbgFu0oFM

Probably one of these

Because that's exactly what's happening and they're completely transparent about it.

I'm like 90% sure it's being perpetrated by that Laotian ESL retard who was shitting up Smash threads a month or so before they got in. Specifically when the Steve discord was down and not shitposting for a week.

A new generation of people playing them for the first time and they actually, factually don’t know how to discuss videogames without shitposting about other videogames.

It’s like a microcosm of “why Yea Forums has gone to shit”; nothing can be good unless it’s a lens through which to criticise something else. This is modern Yea Forums discourse on vidya because only bait threads get replies.

Banjo Tooie is less charming. I'd also add that the atmosphere in Kazooie is miles better. One could also say the first game had far more soul and love put into it, whilst Tooie feels like a bog-standard cash in sequel designed by what was most likely a B, or perhaps even C-team of Rare at that time. It just doesn't have that je na sais quoi of Kazooie, if you get what I mean. The original has a lot of heart, whereas the sequel lacks in this.

But seriously, Kazooie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tooie

je ne sais quoi is literally "im right because I used a french phrase"

Its a fancy way of admitting you don't have an argument.

I know, that's why it's so amusing to use.

Tooie took way, way too many risks to be called a cash-in.

I fail to see how freeing Clanker and opening Tanktup are any different.
>Perform action
>Gain Jiggy and access to new area where there are more jiggies

Well then you're retarded.
Diving down dangerously deep and maneuvering yourself through a keyhole without losing air is more involved than literally just groundpounding something 4 times.

How basic the action is is irrelevant.
Tanktup does not give you two jiggies just because he opens the area to another puzzle.
One jiggy is for opening him and one jiggy is for the puzzle inside him

>How basic the action is is irrelevant.
No it's not.

Something are just too fucking simple to dispense a jiggy. And the rest of the levels prove that to be the case.

You don't get a jiggy for opening up the Sphinx puzzle
You don't get a jiggy for talon trotting up the ramp to captain blubber
Bubblegloop Swamp and Mumbo's Mountain do it because they're poorly designed and too small to accommodate 10 jiggies.

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Some things*

>Something are too fucking simple to dispense a jiggy
And you're the one who decides what actions warrant a reward?
If the game gives you a jiggy after opening Tanktup, then the jiggy was a reward for opening Tanktup.
It really is as simple as that.
You can debate on the quality of this jiggy all you like but saying you get two jiggies from one act anywhere in the game is objectively wrong.

what are some more of your favorite 3d platformers other than Bango? I really love psychonauts, ratchet and clank, and Mario Galaxy

Two levels are inconsistent with the rest of the series design philosophy because they're too fucking tiny to accommodate the amount of collectibles they're supposed to. I've given you more than enough evidence. At this point, you're pic related

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Some of my favorites
>Spyro the Dragon 1
>Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 1
>Super Mario 3D World
>Gravity Rush 2
>Snake Pass
>Yo! Noid 2

SM64, Psychonauts
I liked Battle For Bikini Bottom as a kid but the levels are really linear
Crash Twinsanity is alright for what it is.

What were they thinking?

>Nobody complained when we did it with Boggy, I'm sure it'll be fine to do it again

>Spyro
based
>ty
extremely based. I just found out that Ty 4 actually released a couple of years ago. It's a 2D platformer though.

good lord, I complained. is this bird even worse than boggy?

How did you lose against Boggy?

The fifth one is correct though

Canary Mary is Boggy with button mashing

Except having other jiggies become available after recieving a jiggy itself is not inconsistent to the game's design
>Clanker
>Tanktup
>Boggy
>Gobi
So answer me this, why should I accept your arbitrary idea of what should class as a reward over what the game directly rewards you with?

I was extremely young when Banjo was relevant. My big brother always preferred Kazooie, but I never went back and replayed either. Shitposting aside, what are the real differences besides one is a more dark tone, you can play Banjo or Kazooie individually, and one has connected sandbox areas?

it would always be some bullshit. the first race was okay but the second race I would either miss the gate by a pixel because he'd slam his fatass into me or I'd be far ahead and then he'd rubber band to overtake me in the last stretch.

Eventually I just let him pass me towards the end so I could regain the lead right before the goal

for a game that puts banjo first in the game title they sure give kazooie a lot of powerups. most of the time people choose to use kazooie to carry banjo instead of the opposite

You'd really have to play them yourself to see the difference, because it doesn't sound like much on paper but in practice they really are completely different games.

Kazooie is much simpler, Tooie is a lot more complex and far more challenging
Tooie is slow paced compared to Kazooie, there are a bunch of unnecessary cutscenes.

Kazooie is a collectathon platformer, Tooie is more of a big ass metroidvania platformer. Kazooie's jiggies usually just require you to do a simple platforming challenge or minigame, Tooie's often require you to figure shit out, go between worlds, use a power you get a level or two in the future, etc. It's a lot more complex. Both games are very good.

well Kazooie is really just a result of giving banjo some abilities. initially banjo just had a set of wings in his backpack that would stick out for a double jump because the devs wanted a more "logical" reason for his ability to jump twice. then from there they had the idea to make legs come out of his bag to run faster. eventually they had the idea to make it another character altogether inside his bag which turned into Kazooie. she's meant to be as much of as a main character as he is

What tooie does is basically make the entire world into an interconnected puzzle and it makes you cognizant of how one thing interacts with another and in doing so, it trains you to think about how to route out paths through levels since you can't just complete any one of them in a single go.

It's admittedly jarring to go to that design from the more straightforward design of kazooie. But I think it's a frankly brilliant 3d style metroidvania just as kazooie is a near perfect application of the standard mario 64 style formula that it followed.

Tooie ain't bad but the fact of the matter is that collectathons with more simplistic and contained level design have better ease of access and are overall more fun to explore and play. In Kazooie, you can find everything you need in any level you enter, no backtracking involved. They knew to keep Jiggies locked by new moves and transformations in the hub world which was also relatively straightforward. Tooie on the other hand, has to much backtracking and the worlds are to big. This is another reason why no 3rd game always bothered me. Rare acknowledged the problems with the 2nd game and could've easily found a perfect balance between the 2.

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Don't let the recent Kazooie vs Tooie drama sway you, both games are masterpieces

the only powerups banjo has is when he is transformed and not all transformation have any other move than just move

They have equal billing, Banjo-Kazooie just rolls off the tongue better than Kazooie-Banjo would.

Based post

i guess is the reason why is placed like that, is jut that banjo despite able to punch, most of the moves to attack are more convenient by using kazooie

>Kazooie is a breegull
>never heard of a breegull before
>Google it to see what they look like
what the fuck man

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>OMGGGGG IT'SSSS BON-,BEN-,BONKO OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS FROM THAT ONE GAME!!!!!

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this sounds like a nice scenario to me honestly. I like a strong controlling woman.

None of those other things are comparable to "literally just ground pound 4 times with no danger involved"

these games are ancient relics from a bygone era of shit experimental 3d home consoles. this debate is comparable to zork 1 vs zork 2. nobody cares.

>Freezeezy Peak
>Treasure Trove Cove
>Click Clock Wood
>Rusty Bucket Bay
>Gobi's Valley
>Mad Monster Mansion
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Clankers Cavern
>Bubble Gloop Swamp

DON'T FALL FOR IT, YOU GET FURRY PORN

>It's arbitrary because I say so
This is just getting embarrassing

Seething.

>comparing walls of text to platformers that came out 20 years ago

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>Free Gobi with ONE ground pound
>Jiggy
>Ground pound Gobi ONCE more in front of Trunker
>2nd Jiggy
????

Are those your rankings? If so, here are mine.
>Gobi's Valley
>Mad Monster Mansion
>Click Clock Wood
>Treasure Trove Cove
>Freezeezy Peak
>Bubblegloop Swamp
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Clanker's Cavern
>Rusty Bucket Bay
I'm not a huge fan of swimming in this game.

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Both games are fun. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses that make them stand out from each other. Yea Forums just likes arguing.

You have cross treacherous territory to get to Gobi and also realize that ground pounding him will dispense water. Retard.

You're not even following your own example.
You say Gobi's Valley has 10 jiggies for 10 different actions but the combined 2 jiggies you receive from Gobi is actually LESS work than the combined two from Tanktup.
So yes, until you consistently follow your own rules, they are arbitrary.

GODDAMIT

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You have to cross treacherous territory to get to Tanktup too. He's in the swamp. You have to figure out that ground pounding his feet will help him.

My tierlist would be
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Treasure Trove Cove
>Freezeezy Peak
>BubbleGloop Swamp
>Click Clock Wood
>Clanker's Cavern
>Gobi's Valley
>Mad Monster Mansion
>Rusty Bucket Bay

Don't blame you, thank god Tooie cut down on it bar Jolly Rogers Lagoon which got away with it thanks to infinite air meter.

>Cross dangerous territory to get to gobi
>Put 2 and 2 together that ground pounding gobi's hump will dispense water
Based retard trying to get out on technicalities.

He's on the main path retard. You have to deal with the carpet or go get boots to run across the sand hazard with Gobi. Keep scrambling.

Tooie has such an imaginative and intricately crafted game world that I don't know how you guys can write it off as "kazooie with no soul and more walking."

>Crossing hazardous dessert terrain validates Gobi's jiggy but crossing hazardous swamp terrain doesn't validate Tanktup's
>Two ground pounds are more involved than four ground pounds and a whole memory game.
>Needing to realise ground pounding gobi dispenses water is not the same as needing to realise ground pounding Tanktup's fins will warm him up
?????

why do you hate this? it's better than Clanker for the most part

In about 75% of cases on this god forsaken board you aren't actually arguing with an user you're arguing with their favorite youtuber's opinions

Rusty Bucket Bay gets a bad wrap, the contrast or setting is nice without being frustrating like the cavern

Have you noticed that in the Smash Bros trailer, it seemed like they were mixing Banjo's high pitched voice clips from the first game with his deeper voice clips from Tooie? I just thought it was odd.

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Like I said, the only reason I dislike it is because of how much swimming it involves along with the oily water. The setting and atmosphere are nice.

It goes
>Mad Monster Mansion
>Click Clock Wood
>Gobi's Valley
>Rusty Bucket Bay
>Treasure Trove Cove
>Freezeezy Peak
>Clankers Cavern
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Bubble Gloop Swamp

See

Getting all the notes is a bit of a headache if you're playing on N64 but beyond that it feels like a lot of the hate it gets is largely because it doesn't quite fit the cutesy happy mode people play Banjo for and struggled with its platforming challenges because they played it when they were really young.

Clanker is designed around a central cavern making traveling less annoying then RBB which has both the boat and the outside separated by the oily water which is basically a no-go zone. Also the engine room exists, fuck that room.

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Tanktups isn't a hazard, it's easily accessible platforms that you don't even have to double jump for.

It's very telling that you have no arguments of your own and are just trying to tear down others arguments on technicalities.

>can't play either banjo game on the switch
>or pc legally

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Where's the third game?

It's early game compared to late game. Of course the "Treacherous territory" is going to be less hazardous to you in an early game level than later.

I mean, homebrew lets you play Banjo on the switch illegally but Tooie is still off-limits, console damn near kills itself trying.

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>be N64
>crap controller
>baby platformer games, no jRPGs
>baby special edition designs
>majority of rare titles required expansion pak
>rumble pak tm
>transfer pak tm
why anyone is wasting time arguing abuot anything that came out on this system is beyond me.

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>backtracking is too hard
>the world is too big
>there's too many abilities

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>I feel like Kazooie gets an unnecessary amount of hate when compared to Tooie around here.
It's the exact opposite of that, as I'm sure you've realized by now.

You seem to have it backwards, people are overblowing the flaws of Tooie to unfavourably compare it to Kazooie.

I swear people mix their memories of Tooie and DK64 together.

Both games are trash, collectathons are for children.

>You can literally reach Gobi without double jumping.
>You could even fucking fly to him.
Either both Gobi and Tanktup dispense two jiggies, or they each dispense one. There's no excuse to say one dispenses two and the other doesn't.

You realize that either way it reflects badly on Kazooie and your attempt to bury the argument in semantics is a failure?

I'm feeling generous so I'll give you a (you).
>baby platformer games, no jRPGs
aka "Don't like what I don't like"
>baby special edition designs
Superhot opinion
>majority of rare titles required expansion pak
I count 1 (DK64) maybe 2 if Zelda:MM needed it. Feel free to point out more but I'm very sure you won't hit majority.
>rumble pak tm
rumble wasn't a thing back then, shit was innovative at the time
>transfer pak tm
gimmick that nevertheless was good shit if you had stadium + a pokemon game. I dunno how much that thing cost though.

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"You can debate the quality of this Jiggy all you like"
My goal was not to defend Kazooie, it was to correct you on your incorrect statement that two jiggies obtained after two different actions are somehow attributed to one action.

>can't play either banjo game on the switch
Yet

Go away you shitposting ape

Just finished Kazooie.
Rare must have had a lot of confidence to not only put a full reveal of Banjo Tooie in the end but also tease the Stop n' Swap mechanic before even getting it approved by Nintendo (which apparently didn't actually get implemented). Is there any way to use Stop n' Swap on emulator or would I need the XBLA versions?

You'd need XBLA
In the N64 Tooie their compromise was that a handful of the Stop n Swap items like the Ice Key become available by destroying Banjo-Kazooie cartridges hidden in the hub world.

>I feel like Kazooie gets an unnecessary amount of hate when compared to Tooie around here.

get back to whatever shithole you came from

they're both to big

Stop n swop doesn't work at all, it got dropped before banjo kazooie was released but they kept it in anyway withiut telling you how to access it

I feel the opposite. Everyone loves to wank Kazooie's dick and hate on Tooie from my experience but Tooie is my favorite

The only world that's overly large with a lot of dead space is Terrydactyland.
Mayahem, Glitter Gulch Mine and Witchyworld are barely larger than endgame Kazooie levels. Grunty Industries is huge because of its multiple floors but there's flight pads and a million elevators/warps to get around and everything is very clearly labeled.

>to big

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yes, I remembered Tooie being like DK64, but after replaying it I realized they cut back a lot
Kazooie might even have more collectibles since it uses 100 individual notes instead of bundles, and plenty of Mumbo tokens instead of those little critters

Don't forget you have to pick up every egg and feather individually

Different user but I propose that the design of Tooie levels makes them feel a lot bigger than they actually are.
Areas separated by load screens, often traversing areas without the talon trot available. Things like that.

Two things made me prefer Kazooie over Tooie
>impossible to clear levels in one attempt.
You had to leave and come back later, but you would never know when it was time to leave. You basically wait until you get annoyed.
>note collection is now permanent
I missed notes being a test of survival. It's not like you needed all of them, you just had to get 80+. They took skill rather than being yet another mindless collectible to walk into.

Kazooie's levels are more simplistic and concise. They don't require backtracking to find everything, it's a breeze. I like those type of worlds in collectathons because not only is it more accessible but it's also just more fun to explore and play.

I played and loved Kazooie on the N64. I never played Tooie till it came out on XBLA. It is indeed garbage compared to Kazooie. The Jolly Rodger bay with the underwater area was dope though.

Just played Terrydactland on my replay of Tooie the other day, it didn't even seem too huge or backtracky to me. I got every single jiggy besides the cloud cuckooland one in a reasonable amount of time. The triceratops family is also easy and quick as hell if you know what you're doing beforehand.

Are you talking about Tooie? You don't have to do this in Kazooie.

>Poster count doesn't go up yet again
Does anyone ever fall for these "pretend like it's my first post in the thread" posts? Ever?

I never keep track of the poster count so I probably fall for it semi-frequently.

That was my first post in this thread retard. This is now my second.

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Terrydactyland is just annoying because the main area is designed to accomodate the T-Rex transformation. The sub-areas are all fine, it's around the mountain that can get obnoxious.
On a blind run you'll probably have to switch back and forth to mumbo a bunch of times too since he's required to toggle the two Wumba transformations.

What the fuck, why did they change Banjo's voice in Tooie?

Because he's two years older

Because that high pitched "Whee!" and "Woo!" he does with every jump in the first game is embarrassingly childish

I kinda felt like they just did that to emulate Mario 64 anyway. Still, when he jumps off of the jump pad in Tooie he still goes "Whee!"

it's Soul

The Banjo fanbase might actually be one of the worst on Yea Forums, and I mean that wholeheartedly. Maybe 10% of the people in these threads are actually willing to have a civil discussion about the merits and flaws of both games, while the other 90% are either rabid Kazooie loyalists or rabid Tooie loyalists who think that their game is God's gift to mankind and objectively perfect, the other game is objectively trash, anyone who disagrees is stupid, and won't stop flinging shit at one another about it while catching everybody who doesn't pick a side in the crossfire. It's like two armies of mentally disabled toddlers going at one another while the handful of actual adults are completely drowned out by the screaming and crying. I don't think I've ever been in threads where it's been so difficult to actually talk about something I enjoy, short of some of the most cancerous /vg/ generals.
The worst part? This shit can't be blamed on Banjo getting into Smash. No, this has been the state of this fanbase for ages now. This is the fucking default, our natural state; complete and utter shit.
TL;DR you're all twats.

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No.
What's soul is how Banjo's backpack bobs around as he walks in Tooie, and actually opens when Kazooie comes out of it.

It's all the kids who found out about it from Yooka Laylee. The fanbase went to shit after that happened.

both games have soul

>here's your honeycomb, bro

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WHAT A THRILL.

If Kazooie has anything over Tooie, it's the stop-n-swop secrets. I don't think anything mystified me more as a kid. Gobi's door, this island, and the window to the ice key were all impossible to figure out at release, which I feel really lends to the games kino atmosphere.

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Yeah dude it's totally always like this one thing you can point to that explains why things are they way they are. It definitely isn't because this board's culture isn't centered around being an absolute shithead.

Well, there must be one thing Kazooiefags and Tooiefags agree with
*Ahem*
FUCK DK64FAGS!

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>Yet more empty shitposting and no arguments from the anti-tooiefags

BASED

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I had lots of fun with both banjo and dk64 as a kid, but yeah now that i'm older dk64 does not hold up as well

the atmosphere of it is still cool though

Why are Tooie fans so easily riled up? It's pretty hilarious and pathetic to watch.

I like both games. I just like the simplistic smaller worlds compared to the big ones with backtracking. Mumbo is more Soul in Kazooie though.

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I think Mumbo actually looks really good in Tooie. He was so stiff and blocky in the first game

This entire thread is retards frothing because OP said Tooie was good.

As is always the case. Antifags are the worst subset of any fanbase.

>Nice minor details like Banjo's voice being deeper because he's gotten older
Wait really?

Saying Tooie is better is the true contrarian opinion. I’ve never seen anyone outside of Yea Forums agree that Tooie is better & Yea Forums is the contrarian capital of the world.

What should we call him? I used to think it was a handful of stevefags left over from the discord but I realized there’s only “2” of them in every thread which makes me think it’s just one guy posting on his phone and computer to make it look like he isn’t samefagging.

no

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He looks fine but he was better as a beady eyed ugly shaman dude. I'm not a fan of the big ass realistic blue eyeballs.

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Even though the discord has been abandoned at this point there are still a few literal refusteves left doing exactly what you described.
This guy is right too though, Yea Forums really is the worst board on Yea Forums that I know of.

ever been on Yea Forums?

>stevefags hate Nintendo
Their endgame gets more confusing to me everyday

replace anti-tooie fags with DK64 fags instead

Nah it sums up the fanbase perfectly.

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You know what, I actually did need to make one small change

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>it’s not us I swear! It’s the non existent DK64fags!

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youtube.com/watch?v=Vg7yGeySthw

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The most DK64fags I've seen are DKfags trying to defend DK64 because "MUH SERIES HAS NO BAD ENTRIES" but just continue to only talk about the 2D games instead.

No actually, what’s it like?

>the moves are abilty shaped keys

You mean like the 5 different egg types which each affect enemies and objects differently?
Or egg aiming in first person (which was NOT in BK) which is used all the time.
Or the split-up ability? (Which was heavily advertised at release)
Or using Banjos backpack to cross literally any hazard in any level?
Or Kazooie’s ability to glide anywhere and scope out a level?

Sure, a few of the late game moves were pretty limited, but that vast majority have multiple uses.

The Yea Forumsmblr nickname is well earned, put it that way

Tooie is like watching a Michael Bay film, all special effects, exploding cars and no real substance.

Kazooie is like watching a Christopher Nolan film, deep, layered subplots, central thematic elements perfectly described through the art of motion.

Its one of, if not THE greatest collectathon-adventure games ever made. Incredibly creative and mindblowing detail & scope of the levels. Came out late in the console’s life cycle
and pushed the N64 to its limits to a fault, so its often overlooked. Most people just think of it as “the sequel to BK with those confusing levels”.

Goodness me.. what utter falsehoods. Oh my.

I enjoyed collecting far more in Spyro than Banjo to be honest.The greater amount of worlds and different styles appealed to me more, as well as the shorter length of them. I also enjoyed Copeland's approach to music more than Kirkhope's, although both have their strong and weak areas like limited instrumentation or a less defined melody. I played neither as a child either, because the only console I had until I was 15 was a dreamcast.

I'm not sure how I'd rank them, but my overall favorites are Treasure Trove Cove, Rusty Bucket Bay, and maybe Click Clock Wood. My least favorite is by far Bubble Gloop Swamp.

Speaking of autism, what is Banjo's personality in Smash lore? I miss those threads.

Kazooie is a better game then the mess that is Tooie, even the guys at Rare admitted they went overboard with the backtracking you had to do in Tooie.

The fucking sound guy, user. Not anyone who knows about game design.

Are the worlds from Kazooie meant to take place on Isle o Hags? Where does N&B take place for that matter? I know most of the worlds are fabricated by LOG but Showdown Town seems like a tangible location

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From what I saw, he's taken on the role of the "Big Bro" towards the younger characters while the rest he's just a chill guy.
Kazooie is basically the same in those headcanon threads.

>Click Clock Wood
>Bubblegloop Swamp
>Gobi's Valley
>Freezeezy Peak
>Rusty Bucket Bay
>Mumbo's Mountain
>Treasure Trove Cove
>Clanker's Cavern
>Mad Monster Mansion

The worlds in Kazooie are Gruntilda's pocket dimensions.

oh my god bros banjo is in!

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TEST

I honestly found myself having less fun with Tooie then I did Kazooie, flaws or not, and I know I'm not the only one going by this thread and other places.

I feel like the real problem is that Tooie fans get super defensive about their feelings that the game is better then Kazooie in every way, where the flaws of Tooie are much more noticeable in all honesty then Kazooie's.

Banjo Tooie is objectively superior, but it's not quite as popular, because after the massive success that was Kazooie, people had high expectations that Tooie couldn't possibly meet.

The backtracking in itself isn't my biggest issue with Tooie. It's more just how padded the game is in general, and many of the things you have to do for jiggies just isn't very fun despite also being more time consuming. There's still a lot of fun to be had with the platforming and exploring in Tooie (some levels more than others, but this was true for Kazooie as well) but progressing can feel like a real slog.

>I feel like the real problem is that Tooie fans get super defensive about their feelings that the game is better then Kazooie in every way
I've noticed the same thing, but I honestly get the feeling that those people aren't fans of Tooie at all, or even the series itself. It just comes off as falseflagging most of the time (which would make it even more embarrassing if it's genuine).

This thread is literally shrieking because OP said Tooie was better.

Why create a pocket dimension for Mumbo, though? And how did Blubber get out of (or maybe into) Treasure Trove Cove?

Why do people hate Grunty Industries?

You're right about the padding, playing as Mumbo should have been really cool, but its awful due to that design.

There's also a lot of unskippable cutscenes like Mumbo's spells or calling the train.

Not sure about anyone else, but I'm also not a fan of Glitter Gulch Mine, Terrydactyland and to a lesser level Cloud Cuckooland. I feel like these levels don't do enough to make the different parts visually stand out, and the levels are already really big, so its easy to get lost.

Ironically I know people hate Grunty Industries, but I think it did the big level design the best of any level in the game, since I felt all floors had clear marks and goals they needed me to do between each of them. Also the need to switch between Mumbo and the Banjo under a time limit was a neat touch imo.

The OP kind of comes off as a deliberately condescending shitpost with the intention to start more infighting if you look at how it's worded.

It's a parody of a thread from yesterday that did the opposite thing

They want Banjo to have level design like most of the first game's levels where you can see the entire map from one vantage point and then absentmindedly do a circle around it to grab all the stuff. They don't want to actually think about the level design and exercise spacial awareness or memorization/mental mapping.

That would explain it then.

Tooie would have been better with a map, Metroidvania games have them anyway, and its clearly trying to be like that.

Playing Banjo Kazooie for the first time. Everything about this game is pretty good except for swimming and losing all of your notes/jinjos when you die

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here

Honestly I liked the note loss thing. Death isn't common enough in the game for it to be a massive issue, but it makes you absolutely dread it ever happening.

You should play the XBLA version instead then, you don't lose the notes

press and hold Z when swimming to turn faster. it makes a world of difference

I just played it for the first time this past week too. I think the whole note thing sucks because it isn't a difficulty issue, it's just a tedium issue. Going back and collecting them all sucks in a way that just isn't fun.

Honestly this, and it shows Rare agreed, since they took it out in Tooie, and have it like that in the HD rerelease of BK.

i wish i could play through kazooie with all of tooie's additional abilities
better yet, i wish we got a remake that combines kazooie and tooie, leaving grunty's lair open once kazooie's campaign is complete

Plus, with Tooie they were able to make it harder because you didn't have to deal with losing all of your notes, Jinjos, etc. when you die, and you don't even have lives. It encourages you to go right back where you died and try again immediately.

I like Kazooie better desu

They used to date bruh

I like Kazooie, but I prefer Tooie. Shitposters that falseflag for either game deserve to be slapped in the back of the head though.

How does Gobi travel between Gobi's Valley and Click Clock Wood?

No, gruntildas sister used to date mumbo, but gruntilda was secretly in love with him, that's why she cursed him and put him as a prisoner in her worlds

with a flying carpet

I watched that dunkey video too xD

who is this?

>When Banjo hits the ground after a Beak Buster, he bounces upwards a bit. This "rebound" makes Banjo completely invincible, including from fall damage. Experienced players sometimes use this trick to fall long distances safely or avoid certain other hazards. This trick works in both Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie.

Do you think they'd keep that trick if they remade Kazooie/Tooie?

How the fuck did I not know this was a thing?

Breegull is basically if they called Banjo a Gu-huhrizzly Bear

Kazooie's level design is really fucking terrible. Overall the game feels like someone played Mario 64 but did not comprehend why it was good..
>Mario 64
>stars are pretty much like goalposts that you collect after doing tasks
>world changes with different stars
>Banjo Kazooie's brainlet devs
>hurrr what if we just spread all those collectibles, have nearly no platforming, and make it so you can collect all the pieces without leaving the world? wouldn't that be awsome
fuck no that's terrible, the different between M64 and BK is nicely seen in how the flying mechanic in Mario requires you to manage your speed to stay in the air, while in BK it's completely dumb, just press A to spend flying currency to fly up, completely boring. Kazooie is possibly the most overrated N64 game.

>if they called Banjo a Gu-huhrizzly Bear
They should have

i keep starting kazooie but end up stopping after bubblegloop swamp
im guessing its cause that's the point where i can't get every jiggy on a world in one go
i need gobi's speed shoes for mr. vile, i need both speed shoes and boots for boggy's race, and need the boots to complete gobi's valley

>i need gobi's speed shoes for mr. vile
casual

Dilate

i've only started playing the game since last year
im nowhere close to an expert

The more rounded friendly Mumbo makes sense since he is your alley in Tooie

I played through the game for the first time two months ago and managed it.

You can do the level in one go the shoes just makes it easier, but its completely possible to do without them, as I haven't done that level at all with them.

The only level you need to replay would be Gobi's Valley if you didn't do Freezeezy Peak yet, or just go back to Freezeezy Peak for a single race if you haven't done Gobi's Valley.

The only other thing that would lead to backtracking is the spot where you meet Cheato behind Bubblegloop Swamp, but you can literally just get the upgrade from the level leave and go break the ice blocking Cheato's spot and play the level normally following that.

I'm a massive DKfag, DKC2 and Tropical Freeze being in my favourtie games of all time but ya, I could never get into DK64 despiting really wanting to. It's like it's a mish mash of the most glarling flaws of both Kazooie and Tooie. Also DK64 gave us Tiny Kong, the worst Kong
Just waiting for the
>Implying
of cropped Tiny rule34

>get booted out of the level after collecting a star
>allowed to continue the level in bk
nah fuck you

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If you havent killed bullshit time just flying around worlds with Kazooie's Glide or hopping harmful materials with Banjo's backpack, then you haven't experienced maximum comfy atmosphere

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Honestly there's no excuse for that if the level doesn't heavily change between each objective.

Banjo, Spyro and the first Jak and Daxter all do it right by allowing a sense of flow by letting you continue to play the level after getting a main collectable.

Nah, all 3 of Rare's collectathons are my favorite, they have the same appeal with their own differences.

I can't let go of DK64 especially with having 5 fucking characters

>It gave us Tiny Kong, the worst Kong

The small version yeah, the newer older version of Tiny is based

COME AND HAVE A GO
IF YOU THINK YOU'RE HARD ENOUGH

EEKUM-BOKUM EEKUM-BOKUM BOOBALOOBOO BOOBALOOBOO
EEKUM-BOKUM EEKUM-BOKUM EEKUM-BOKUM EE-YO-AH

I swear the game over sequence had mumbo showing up begging her to take him back after she got all hot

>Small version exists to replace Dixie, a way better character
>Older version is furfag fuel
No

Is this and the first one on Game Pass PC? I can't find it on the store

Just watched it nevermind im wrong.

Starting over wasn't an issue because navigation in Mario 64 is entertaining, because the game has platforming and many ways to get around. Banjo has nearly no platforming, the movement blows and on top of that the jigsaw pieces are pretty much given to you considering how stupid easy it is to get them.

>world changes with different stars
Most worlds barely change at all between stars so kicking the player out does absolutely nothing but waste their time in most cases. Even some of the times where the level does change it's completely arbitrary (like Koopa the Quick only appearing in his two missions even though the rest of the level doesn't change at all and there being no apparent reason as to why he's not just present almost all of the time).

>all these threads the last few days
>the exact same words and phrases
>concise
>metroidvania
>too ambitious
>confusing

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They're both better than DK64, which wasn't bad itself.
Fuck Microsoft.

oh boy another wojak

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>I can't let go of DK64 especially with having 5 fucking characters
That might be the biggest problem DK64 had.

>wojak. we are mad. we do not tolerate this in our safe space. go back. stop at once.

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Nah, that was exactly what made it stand out from being another version of Banjo.

The characters themselves werent the problem, it was the lack of options to switch them, which in itself wasnt a problem

>REEEEEEEEEEEE I WANT TO CHANGE ON THE SPOT

Fucking casuals man

I don't care about the actual opinion, shitpost for all i care, im just tired of these fucking wojaks

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I want to talk about how much Humba hates Mumbo

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The real problem was that you could only pick up most collectables as a specific Kong, even if some or all of the other Kongs could easily reach them. If a Kong was capable of reaching those items then they should have been able to collect them, simple as that.

Im playing through Yooka Laylee post patch and it's actually pretty alright, im up to the second world and it's great.

Though i will say, it bothers me they didn't think to have themed music of the main hub when your near the books, you would think that would be a given

its a picture you whiny pasty virgin. if it was some generic anime slut youd have no problem with what i said. and its been confirmed only discord trannies and retardera immigrants have problems with our mascots of the last 10 years. its a good thing im not here to please you :)

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They need to fuck each other's brains out.

He used magic in her Casino

For the main banana's i agree, they shouldn't have split them.

The actual puzzles and medals though, nah, it's better that they split.

They dated in the past, but Mumbo made a joke about taking her back to his place and skullfucking her and she stopped talking to him after that.

Is this Loss?

>Nuts and Bolt's Nutty Acre's forced them to play the role of Husband and Wife

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If they're split in an organic way then it's fine. Having Lanky's coins be unobtainable to other Kongs simply because they're in an area that's only accessible through Lanky's abilities is fine, for example, because the other Kongs wouldn't be able to get there to collect them anyway.
Having Lanky's coins be unobtainable to other Kongs just because they're not Lanky, even though those coins are in an area that every single Kong can access just by walking, is stupid. It adds absolutely nothing to the game.

>Terrydactyl land

>Mumbo's power is turning shit huge

>You have to turn Humba's entire fucking tent huge for T-Rex Tranformation buff

>Going in as Mumbo and sitting next to giant Humba

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The camera made me uninstall. How do you cope with it?

MICROSOFT
REMAKE THIS GAME

>he doesn't know what happens to mortals who touch Lanky's artifacts
This was a mercy, you fool.

>The only thing they've ever needed outside aid on is M rated franchises.
new conker game, but with the catch that it takes place during and alongside a banjo sequel

HE HAS NO FACE
HE HAS NO SOUL

Huma doesn't actually change size though her Wigwam does

It's less about the image and more of

>THING I DON'T LIKE, LOOK AT THIS WOJAK OF PEOPLE WHO DO THING I DON'T LIKE

shitposting images themselves aren't the problem, it's the abundance of repeating the same exact shit for literally everything

Bullshit she doesn't change size, she's a little bigger than Banjo at normal size but in the giant wigwam she's like three times as big.

not really a problem for me so far, i use rightstick to fix it and it goes straight behind me when i start moving which helps now.

I'm still mad Nuts & Bolts made her so much smaller despite making her cuter.

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Why can't people love both games? Fuck, what a nitpicky faggots there's in here,

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You're talking out your ass, around here everybody fellates Kazooie and shits on Tooie for muh backtracking muh expansive levels. Same as shitting on Spyro 2 and 3 for muh backtracking muh minigames.

I GIVE MY LIIIIIIIIIIFE
NOT FOR HONOR, BUT FOR YOOOOOOOOU

>way more fucking content
>more intricate level design
>characters handle better
>all the original moves PLUS enhanced/better ones
Imagine thinking backtracking in vidya is some kind of inherent design flaw. I'm convinced this originates from some e-celeb video I haven't watched yet, nobody 7 years ago was complaining about muh backtracking muh level size. The only complaint anyone had for years was the frame rate getting fucked sometimes.

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After letting out the disappointment for what it isn't, Nuts and Bolts was pretty fucking based in what it did

Gamer Girl Humba still makes my dick hard

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>Redesign takes 80% of the mass from her tits and moves it to her nose

>no tits
>no ass
>stick legs
You get an actual porn artist to do your concept art and there's LESS titties in your game than the previous two that were on a Nintendo console. What a sad display.

Anyone with a brain knows kazooie is better than tooie

you guy guys are talking about all three fucking god dam games. But man, Lets bring up Banjo Kazooie Grunty's revenge and talk about that game. Pretty sure 90% have 0 idea about this game never fucking played it.

Face it both anti kazoo and anti tooies. You're both pos that like to stroke the biggest dicks about which game is better. they're all good except for that one game we don't talk about.

>they're all good except for that one game we don't talk about
You'd best not be talking shit about motherfucking Banjo Pilot

you mean the rip off of diddy kong racing plane mode? Yea I completely forgot that one, that one is like complete obscurity that 1% knows. Sadly I'm apart of that because as a kid I had all the Banjo kazooie games.

But no, its the Nut's abolts is objeticly a shitty game. Anyone can agree to that.

>Grunty's Revenge
Was that the handheld one where Grunty was a robot for some reason? Yeah, I don't think anyone played that one.

a smooth brain

Only on the Gba, unless I'm unaware of any other consoles for it. But for its time it was taking both elements of Kazooie and tooie and making 2d overhead adventure collectathon. Good game untill you come across some bugs which are occasionally frustrating

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Diddy Kong Racing was so cool.

it's like the only racing game I know that had story mode where exploration was required to some degree.

I literally played it and finished it for the first time like 2 days ago

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How would they redesign her for a remake?

My headcannon is that Gruntilda has these portals to different parts of Isle o Hags for various purposes; Gobi's Valley is good for robbing the tombs to increase her wealth so she can buy more witch equipment, Treasure Trove Cove is good for a sweet vaycay, Bubblegloop Swamp has a lot of important alchemical ingredients etc.

BanjoBros you will help us get in the game right? We are N64 brothers

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Well don't you realize you in the game... just stuck in ice in battlefield. Seriously take look look your in just frozen. Your reveal is you being thawed out of ice or breaking out somehow.

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You're not completely wrong, I'm pretty sure the manual or something says that Grunty and Mumbo used to date and she's the reason he has a skull for a head now