As expected...

How did a few rookie australian game developers surpass every metroidvania ever made?

They don't, get some taste.

the power of shitposting

Hollow Knight just has good combat and lore, the levels are pretty bland and samey.

Ah so you've never played the game.

I have. The world is big, but most of it is just wasted space.

Igavanias are literally nothing but hallways.

I don't really see the 'action' part here, characters in Igavanias move stiff and like they're stuck in molasses 90% of the time.

The games play classic Castlevania. More specifically Rondo of Blood. That's where the Vania part comes into play.

Tight hallways.

And Hollow Knight is just big rooms of nothing. Zero Mission is still the best.

you are literally retarded if you think igavaias *require* grind just because it has drops, his games are always on the easier side as jap platformers go, git gud etc

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i never said it was required you fucking mongoloid

The grind isn't to make the games, easier, retard, it's to get the fun weapons like Crissaegrim. There's always a huge amount of equipment to get in the Igavania games, and that's where the fun comes from. They're otherwise easy as shit, but at least getting flying swords and wind blades is fun.

Fuck off falseflagger.

Where are the reviews?

What's with the sudden rise of shitposters trying to bring up HK in Bloodstained threads? Did you lad fails with your TORtanic shit so now you're defaulting back to the tried and true method of using Hollow Knight to rile Yea Forums up?

As long as it features roughly the same amount of content and quality, no matter how samey, I'm game.

More like Cope Knight lol.

>Hollow Knight isn't comparable to Igavania games
>Compare: estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.

I don't see how grinding in an already easy game to get a weapon is fun, by the time you get it the game is even easier and you're already 1 or 2 shotting enemies with the weapons you have.

I know this is bait but people who say this unironically have probably never played an iga or metroid in their life. In fact they probably haven't even played hollow knight and just watched some shitty e-celeb and copy pasted their thoughts. get a life you zoomer trash

I agree that Hollowknight is a better game than the IGAvania titles, but just by a smidge. Still, have to give credit where credit is due. That feeling of exploring and uncovering all the secrets of SoTN, AoS, etc is something that only Hollow Knight was able to recreate. IGA's later games like PoR didn't really have that feel and his 3D games were pure garbage. I've got Bloodstained ready to go but haven't had time yet to play it - I hope its more like SoTN/AoS than it is the later DS games.

I think HK is the better game. However, that title goes to SOTN, not HK.

Fuck off back to hell, I'm a diehard HK fan and I'm happy for Bloodstainedbros
Don't be like that one la mulana nigger

Feel free to point out the similarities Hollow Knight has with Symphony of the Night, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance and so on that it didn't solely derive from Metroid and why you think it falls under the Metroidvania category.

>that one la mulana nigger
you mean OP?

I got bored with Hollow Knight because its far to simple and the movement upgrades were barely there along with not nearly enough variety in movement and combat because they went whole hog on the meh charm system.

I got bored with SotN because the RPG nonsense made the game way too easy and I wasnt even trying to grind.

When can we get a 2d game like these with some actual movement and momentum?

Oof! This is a pretty cringey post, my anonymous duder brother. Maybe you should think a little more about your intent before posting?

Okay but seriously, I'm expecting more of the same with a few additional mechanics/areas at least for a change-up and/or a way to differentiate from the first game.

Yeah, I thought about that after posting, it's probably the same faggot

HK is way too much overrated.
You're just embarrassing yourself.

You have a sword and not a gun.

Because the weapons you get is fun user. The end result makes the grind worth while. And even if you don't grind, every play though is a bit different due to getting different drops. Might play a section with a different weapon and play style one one run from another.
These are not hard concepts retard.

>These are not hard concepts retard.

Calm down.

>every play though is a bit different due to getting different drops. Might play a section with a different weapon and play style one one run from another.

By the time a weapon with a low drop chance gets the game is even easier, making it not worth playing. SoTN and all the GBA/DS Castelvania games are already borderline casual games. They were fun for 1 playthrough when I was younger but I prefer games with a bit of a challenge these days. It's fine that you like them. No harm done. Hollow Knight is a better game though.

>When can we get a 2d game like these with some actual movement and momentum?
SOTN's controls are excellent, in my opinion. The issue with it is the stat leveling, and to a lesser degree, uninspiring level design.

Its too stilted for me after enjoying sm so thoroughly, I had fun with it but theres a bit too much broken OP shit all over as well and thats not even looking up a guide. Decently stong magics you can learn on accident didnt help either but I tried not to rely on it too much

I did a lot of fisting if I remember

Protip since you obviously haven't actually played Bloodstained. The weapons are significantly more balanced then SotN, getting a rare drop does not mean you'll mow down the rest of the game (eg, Cursagram, Shield Rod) and there are multiple difficulty level that doesn't just increase HP pools but also adds attacks to mobs/bosses and additional mobs in to areas. Legit, your concerns ARE addressed in the game, thats another reason why people are calling you out since you look like an uninformed idiot.

>you don't grind to make the games easier, you grind for weapons that make the game easier

itt: coping poorfags

Hes saying that getting weapons is part of the completionist aspect and can be fun, not the difficulty retard.
The games are already easy without grinding but it adds more things to find randomly each run and more things for people who LOVE these kind of things to spend time trying to get all the stuff.

There's a reason there were so many absolutely useless things to get in sotn

Order of Ecclesia has a nice difficulty curve with a decent variety of weapons/magic spells.

>you obviously haven't actually played Bloodstained.

I didn't say I have?

>your concerns ARE addressed in the game
What concerns? All I have said is that grinding for weapons isn't a fun mechanic.

Silksong sounds like it will address your complaints.

What's fun about getting the strongest weapons in the game when they all oneshot enemies anyway?

Nah, he will still cry about Silksong, just can't please some people.

The DS Castlevania games are what you're looking for. While yes they've got the RPG mechanics, the bosses are much more tuned for difficulty, especially so on the harder difficulties. SotN has always been far FAR the easiest of the genre, I've always more enjoyed it as more of a sandboxy game since you get so much shit to play with in it.

>what fun about completionists way of gaming
Ask them, thats why I said can be fun dipshit.

Does it have different movement? Having that and something thats not the charm system would be neat.
I'll check it out though, hopefully their next project is better or at least equal. I am always worried about sequels

>SotN has always been far FAR the easiest of the genre,

I found Aria of Sorrow to be much easier. Dawn of Sorrow is also pretty easy too. The other GBA and DS games are definitely harder than SotN though.

I mean I think hollowknight is a crowning metroidvania game and all but your attitude makes me want to punt your minuscule testies into your psuedo vagina.

>ITT-shitters who got filtered by fucking hornet

Yep, nobody actually likes that pile of trash that is Hollow Knight, they only use it to shitpost.

>got the the very end of HK
>got into other games before finishing it
>lost all my saves because I'm stupid
Is it worth finishing? I think I had like 2 areas left to finish up and just stopped caring as much when other games caught my attention.The first time in each area was brettyy gud though

symphony is just easy because the balancing hits itself when you get to the reverse castle. you don't even have to involve yourself in the game if you use shield rod + alucard shield and even without it alucard is a demi-god who barely fucking dies.

>grinding
>fun and rewarding
I don't understand how anybody can think this way.
It's fun to get good at a game, it's fun realize a build you planned out.
It's not fun playing the mob slot machine, at least not in any meaningful way.
It's just gambling with your time. It's not meaningful content.
You didn't learn anything or earn anything, you got lucky.

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holy shit HK drones are beyond delusional

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It changes drops on later playthorughs so you might get gear you never would use normally.
Thats literally it

Different strokes
I'm sure you like things that baffle other people and can be easily criticized too. Most everyone does with something.

Calling it right now. OP's probably one of those faggots that was shitting on HK earlier this month.

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It's the one falseflagging faggot that keeps spamming this one when there's a lot of good metroidvania games. Guy is obsessed with HK for some reasons.

That's because, like it or not, Hollow Knight is literally the most popular metroidvania these past few years. So it's pretty much ez bait for Yea Forums to bite.

Yeah.

This, Order of Ecclesia is actually the only Igavania game I can think of that has a good difficulty level throughout the whole game. All the other ones I've played were all fun, but piss easy. The only aspect where Shanoa's game is a bit weaker than most other titles is the music.

>I hope its more like SoTN/AoS than it is the later DS games.
it is

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Why the FUCK is it $40 with $10 day one DLC when it was literally funded by fans? Meanwhile Hollow Knight is a much better more refined game with loads more content cor $10-15 with free DLC

cry harder poorfag

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>Create a great game with 56k
>Be so good that Bloodstained fans get mad if you prefer HK over it
It's ironic that can not acknowledge passion and the fact that the team worked their ass off and created a long lasting title.

Just pirate Bloodstained and buy HK.

Snap. This is going in my based collection.

it doesn't even have good combat that shit is extremely shallow

hollow knight is the first metroidvania for a lot of zoomers that also love dark souls, it's no surprise the fanbase is just as cancerous

it's also not a very good game 6/10 boring aesthetic with shit colors

I know this thread was just meant to shitpost, but I hope they zoom the camera out a bit in Silksong. It seems easy to get hit by something offscreen from the trailer. Game looks awesome otherwise.

>Why the FUCK is it $40 with $10 day one DLC when it was literally funded by fans?
the fans got it for that money? are you actually this retarded? games don't function on a non profit basis retard

lol keep coping, Soistained fan

>coping
confirmed zoomer then cool

>boring aesthetic with shit colors
>Ignoring pic related
OH NO NO NO!

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Took a break from Bloodstained for a bit because while I was playing I remembered the Silksong trailer and it hit me.

Pic related. This shit right here is pretty much the tactical soul system AoS/DoS did. Like to a fucking tee.

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looks much better than hollow knight unironically, 3 hours in ive already seen ten times the color variation than in the whole of hk

Look guys random Doggos as bosses!! XD

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BS is ugly looking, HK is OK.

i dont agree also hk looks like a flash game and it fucking bugs heh me

I played the game as well (pirated). What your saying is wrong.

BS looks good enough, HK looks good enough.

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>red active consumable items
>blue probably movement augments
>yellow passives
Based aussie devs. Finally learning the true kino igavania mechanic.

either you're baiting, lying or colorblind

BS looks like a Unity demo for 10$.

Lets be real here.
This was the best boss fight in hollow knight and you can't deny it.

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hk looks like a mildly competent flash game from 2011

Get an IPS display and you might actually see how bad the colors are.

Just because Hollow Knight is a modern classic doesn't mean slightly inferior games aren't fun.

Flash games had more effort than BS.

Symphony is way too easy, the entire game is an absolute joke if you know what you are doing. It's still great fun but it doesn't stack up to Hollow Knight or the later 2D Metroids in my onion.

Silksong and the shovel knight dlc that lets you play as the gravelord are what your looking for then

i do have an ips you sniveling cuck and hk is nothing but dull muted shades
fucking lol

*ahem*

Bloodstained was, and is, a scam.

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The real truth is that Metroidvania is a flawed genre from the getgo. The desire for interconnectivity throughout the map just neuters level design and makes for superficial depth. Wow Hollow Knight is so huge and varied! Except 90% of rooms are high cowling caverns with four enemies on the ground or a vertical hallway that you can climb on either side but ultimately are just the same thing. And this isn't letting other Metroidvania off the hook either. SotN is a piss easy, overly drawn out example of the same thing.

Definitely up there but I loved the watcher knights. That shit was absolutely unapologetically brutal with a weak nail and it felt like a triumph beating them.

why is "vania" tacked onto the end? metroid created this genre

>The desire for interconnectivity throughout the map just neuters level design and makes for superficial depth.
Your post just sounds like "superficial depth." Well made metroidvania games are selling the player on intelligent level design, problem solving, and character progression. I can tell you haven't played Hollow Knight but regardless, it isn't always about throwing a bunch of enemies all over the place at the player. Good enemy placement matters.

Shitting on Hollow Knight is the most blatant contrarianism I've seen in a while. Absolutely kek-worthy meaningless snapbacks ITT. Accept that a game from the late 90s is naturally gonna be bested by it's descendants instead of being a whiny cuck about it.

how about you stop being a whiny cunt when people say something negative about you holy grail and accept it

only reason it gets shit is because faggots keep insisting its the best thing ever, at this point any time it gets brought up it's only to make that claim or shit on something else like in this case bloodstained, go fuck yourself

how much rick and morty did you watch to come up with this one?

Seethe harder retard. Not everyone is so blinded by the fact that they spent money on something that they're unable to criticize it

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Hollow Knights atmosphere never worked for me which is weird because SotN and Metroid Prime both kill it in the isolation department for me but something about HK just felt too dead and uninteresting. It might be that the locales are just slight variations with much of the same feeling in the level design. This place might have more trees or this place is more brown than grey but it all feels kinda samey. The most interesting places were often the shortest like the beehive. I also think it needed more to the combat. The sense of character progression feels so low because it's mostly movement based. I was hoping to be able to do more in combat but by the end you're still just pogoing or waiting out attacks.

The problem with the combat is that they give you things that are supposed to expand on it but they're just worse than spamming attacks. All the Nail Arts are crap because they lock you into an animation or last longer than a basic attack or two. Magic can get a little broken, though, especially if you're not taking hits. The up-magic attack is stupid good.

Sundered is better.

Magic seemed to break the game for me. After doing the troupe dlc I wanted to see if i could run a summoner build where I just equipped every charm that gave me a minion. Ran around cleaning up last minute tasks and was having fun so I took it to the final boss and it just obliterated it in seconds.

Stop falseflagging you fucking niggers, TORtanicfags are the worst people on this board

>7/19/19

Are we talking the fake-out final boss or spoiler moth? Because the former is supposed to go down easy.

>As expected, Bloodstained ended being a mediocre title and Hollow Knight is still the uncontested king of the Metroidvania genre.
Cope, flashnigger. Cope as hard as you seethe

How is he the seething one if he's demonstrably correct?

Might be an unpopular opinion but I think HK would have been better as a more tightly designed early Castlevania type of game. You can still have the hubs and downtime but I just feel like it was too big for its own good and never justified the long stretches where shit all happens. Early on right until after City of Tears I was onboard with Yea Forums and thought this was the greatest shit ever. But it falls off hard immediately after and feels like its just padding out until the end

>How is he the seething one if he's demonstrably correct?
Dilate, nigger

What you mean make it more like a Classicvania? That sounds awful mate.

based

babagondala

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You fuckers are braindead. Go play super metroid
You're also wrong. A platformer with metroid world design is Rainworld. HK is just metroid.

>seething backer
lmao

I don't think it needs to be more linear. HK just needed more interesting abilities that make it quicker to navigate the world after you've already been through the same areas so many times. It has the weakest and most unsatisfying double jump I've ever seen in a game and all the other movement abilities are just as boring.
Silksong is already looking a bit better in that department, even Hornet grabbing on to ledges means they're focusing on traversing the gameplay world some and not designing it around combat first necessarily.

>I got bored with SotN because the RPG nonsense made the game way too easy and I wasnt even trying to grind.
this but unironically
i finished it and got something like 192.8% but not the 200.6%
just like what the hell man
boring ass dang ol every boss can be cheesed with summon spirit like whats the point?

>Dodge failed champion attack
>Get hit by rock of based rng
Epic.

I love HK but good post

HK isn't like Castlevania at all. It's Metroid + Dark Souls. The only similarity is how the map works, which neither Metroid nor Castlevania invented. This is why Metroidvania is a dumb term.

>Go play super metroid
Why? That's not a Metroidvania and has little to do with Igavania style games.

the only metroidvania ive beaten is HK and i only got 63.8% on my first run. I'm having trouble with samurai boss in bloodstained can someone help me git gud?

also should i have played the castlevanias before i played this?

I'm currently playing it and it is very fun, the attention to detail is crazy for an indie game and I like how they loosely followed the dark souls design philosophy. Although I can't really compare it to other Indies because I haven't played any other on the genre much.

>There's always a huge amount of equipment to get in the Igavania games, and that's where the fun comes from.
I will never understand how this can be fun. You're collecting meaningless trinkets in a video game. You can't do anything with them because the game is piss easy and they don't even feel all that different to use because everything is tied to stat leveling nonsense. There is no point to any of it. You're having fun wasting your time in the purest sense; might as well slam your head into the wall beside you for hours on end, because it's just as stimulating.

The way these games (like SOTN) are SUPPOSED to be played isn't in order to 100% them. You're supposed to do a blind run, and just once. That way, every player who does a blind run will have a slightly different experience with the game, and it will feel a bit personalized, and the world will feel grander than it is. Scope was the whole point of SOTN's existence, the developers looked at the old Castlevania games and thought, "I want the castle to be even bigger, and full of even more enemies and artifacts than before." The point was not to be a collectathon. Collectathons actually feel smaller in scope than regular games, because they service neurotic hoarding, which insists on reducing the world to a conveyor belt of instant gratification. Honestly, the design of SOTN was flawed from the start, because it didn't successfully communicate this to players. Everyone got engrossed in 100%ing that game when that was not the point. Following that, Igarashi made more games, each one with more grinding and trinket-collecting bullshit than SOTN had, to appease all the dumbass players who misunderstood SOTN.

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I find this game boring and unfulfilling. Dropped it an hour out, why do you faggots like this game so much?

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There's been item and bestiary checklists since Circle of the Moon, nignog, also directed and designed by Igarashi, by the way. The huge arsenal is a big part of these games.

It's crazy how much better Silksong looks than the first game in every way.

>since Circle of the Moon
Those were in SOTN bro. It all started with that game.

>The huge arsenal is a big part of these games.
Yeah, and I just explained how it's shit, and how people misunderstood its purpose, Iga himself over the years.

No, in SotN you had to walk all the way to the librarian to check the various lists. In the other games it's part of the progression and accessible from the menus. Stop being so autistic about people enjoying games.

What the fuck does it matter where you access the checklists from? And you are still an aspie who didn't understand shit about SOTN regardless.

you can buy items that teleport you back to the library for next to nothing

If Hollow Knight is so great then how come I like Guacamelee 1 and 2 better? Hmm?

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>You're collecting meaningless trinkets in a video game
But that's also the case in HK with charms. The only real improvement is that they aren't random drops.

Why all the spite? HK is great, and I'm sure so is BS.
This. It's not the hardest or most varied, but it's just so satisfying to fight them.

Your brain chemistry is fucked ever since you cut your dick off because of the hormones you take resulting in mental deficiency in general and shit taste in videogames in particular?

Item collection is the main form of progression in the Igavania games, and it's dangled in front of you like a carrot on a stick in the games after SotN. Even in SotN, every kid who played it enjoyed farming enemies to see what they would drop. It's always been a big appeal. Stop sperging at any time.

Agreed. I thought the first one was damn near perfect but Silksong is making me see flaws I didn't even realize it had while playing it. That's a good sign.

...

I'm sitting naked in my chair right now. I'm pretty sure I still have my dick. Although that could just be the chemicals in the water making me think my dick is still there.

Is that good? I was turned off by the art style.

>What are you expectations and fears for Silksong?
I fear, death will be meaningless.
In E3 demo Hornet was losing silk (a resource similiar to souls in Hollow Knight) and that's it.
The person playing just facerolled through everything over and over again, not even losing money.

>dude no map lmao
Cringe

Wow. So much noir in one post.

>Igavanias has ALWAYS been thinly veiled skinner boxes that abuse human hoarding desire to artificially and cheaply extend the playtime!
Well, I guess that makes it totally fine and acceptable.

In the treehouse demo the presenter said that you do still lose currency. So don't worry about that, even the janky ass map system is apparently still there.

Label it however you want and stay mad.

I wasn't defending HK

I'm not convinced that kids would have enjoyed the farming shit or prompted to try to enjoy it nearly as much if the checklists weren't included. Iga might have just been an aspie himself all along. His games and Metroidvanias in general are not nearly as good as people say they are.

?

You play as a luchador that body-slams skelletons, and there's lots of neat costumes. What's not to like?

How frustrating is this game boss-wise?

>His games and Metroidvanias in general are not nearly as good as people say they are.
Compared to what? Nearly every other genre is completely braindead.

Compared to any genre that is not focused on collectathon grinding faggotry.

All Metroidvanias such because it's just a bloated platform game where you aimlessly figure out where to go whereas Castlevania were actual RPGs with actual progress.

If you're not braindead then only a few midgame bosses will be challenging. It's the late game and post game where thing get crazy.

I really want to love Hollow Knight but it feels like a chore to play and progress.

What do?

>janky ass map system
I'm actually fine with that as long as the cartographer guy can be reached without lategame upgrades.
Wanna get a map? Buy one, goy.
Feel familiar with surroundings? You are good without one.
It does feel gay if I'm desperately willing to get a map, but that scribe is behind seven blackgates (or whatever that shit is called).

Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. You WILL die against certain bosses a few times, but learning their patterns and when to heal is pretty natural. It only starts going kaizo on your ass towards the end and with the extra fights.

literally git gud
use the moss knights to practice not getting hit all the time

The things you find in the Igavania games are playstyle altering. It's not just collect green coin #9999999.

Why do you want to love the game that isn't fun to play for you?

this
it's not even that extreme in actual collectathon games, that user is just a bitch

>overwhelmingly positive on steam
>mediocre

Try harder faggot

They aren't altering enough to want to 100% these games. They're just altering enough that a single, non-completionist blind run can be casually satisfying. However, these games are still overall inferior compared to the classic Castlevania games, like 1, since they encourage hoarding, farming, grinding, and at the end of the day, suck some of the life out of action platforming by making evolving stats so important to damage numbers.

not necessarily agreeing with op, but I have smut visual novels with overwhelmingly positive ratings

Weebs have given all the Compile Heart games similar ratings as well, but those people are especially autistic.

GRIS is overwhelmingly positive on Steam too and its absolute dogshit

>moving goalposts

True but at the same time HK is at like 30k reviews already or something.

What? How?

I think that user was referring to bloodstained

CotM>HK>SotN>La Mulana> Super Metroid>AoS>Shantae: PC> Fusion>DoS>Zero Mission>PoR>HoD>OoE>everything else

I’m stuck after I beat the twin dragons where do I go?

Okay, what are the best charms, I don't give a shit about spoilers.

Castlevania 1 is really not that good. At least choose a legitimately good classic like 3, 4, or Rondo. Maybe you haven’t played any of the games that you dickride?

>Castlevania 1 is really not that good
Fucking zoomers.

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It isn’t in the context if you played the newer games first. The ds ones are the best. It’s a shame they are on the ds only.

Rondo of Blood shits all over the previous games.

>It isn’t in the context if you played the newer games first.
So if you play the games out of order and therefore don't have a historically accurate view of the older games, got it.

Rondo is good but I prefer 4.

fucking zoomers

> CotM over AoS

why? COTM seems almost objectively worse in every way. i played both on release and I have played both in the last 3 years. I even 100% AoS

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And you can gimp yourself in several ways. Don’t talk shit about challenge if you haven’t tried a fist run in AoS/ SotN or a bear ring run in CotM. And then there’s that arena mode in OoE and HoD.

The best charm if you are a shitter is Quick Focus, because it allows you to overheal anything. Available after the first 2 zones. Shaman Stone is available at the same time, and its good if you are good. Quick Slash is by far the most bullshit charm but it's very late into the game. Same for Sharp Shadow. Fragile Strength is OP if you can avoid dying (it breaks on death). Mark of Pride is really good and is found quite early but requires you to beat a casual filter boss to get it.

>having to gimp yourself to enjoy it
Stop defending shit game design.

>CV 3
>superior to CV 1 in every single way
>get called a zoomed for recognizing that

And you’re a hipster, faggot.

Just because I mentioned 1 doesn't mean I think it's the only good classic Castlevania, retard.

>a historically accurate view of the older games
What the hell is this supposed to mean? Am I meant to dickride shitty games just because they are old and were fair for their time when superior sequels exist?

>comparing the bare bones reddit magnet HK to anything good
>big indie eyes of unoriginality
its another side scrolling indie flash game but you redditors eat that shit up so I'm howling into the void, even rabi ribi is a better game despite being drowned in a cancerous 2hu wannabe setting

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Those were suggestions, but you really don’t have to grind to finish any of those games, and CotM and OoE at least challenged you if you chose not to do so. This is like complaining about min-maxing in any game and then complaining after doing so. You sound silly.

If you play later installments first, you will usually have a much harder time grasping what made previous installments special at the time of release (more special than the later installments even, since the first one will have been the most original). This isn't rocket science.

this made me realize how well these things were balanced
you have to do ridiculous feats to get the good charms early

The only thing that really makes HK better than other metroidvanias is the boss fights between those fights the game is a tedious slog though.

You called me a zoomer for saying that CV 3, 4 and Rondo were better games. Nice backpedaling.

I was born in 95 bro and I grew up with my bro who was born in the 90s so I like a lot of boomer shit so I’m neither. Stop pigeonholing shit you old faggot nigger.

Legit autism bro.

All the Steam rating shows is how happy the people who paid for the game are with it. An overwhelmingly positive rating means the people who spent money on the game are very happy with the product they got for their cash. That in and of itself is valuable information, but isn't an objective indicator of game quality. It is extremely helpful if you already know your own tastes and have an interest in the game. If it's reviewed extremely well, then there's a good chance you'll like it, since a lot of other people just like you were also interested, then ended up very pleased with their purchase.

This is complete and utter bullshit. I didn’t play any of the classicvanias until 2008, and didn’t touch Rondo until DxC and still had a blast with the games except for maybe 2 and Bloodlines. Stop gatekeeping.

>95
That makes you like 12. This board is 18+.

>what made previous installments special at the time of release
And how much does that matter today, decades later? When I call a game good or compare games I look at how good to play they are today. A game can be very inventive and influential, but if it's quirky and the same idea was reused in a much more polished sequel, the sequel is better than the original and the original is hardly even worth playing now. This is precisely the case with Castlevanias.

>bloodlines
The blue flame whip is the most based whip in the series, though. Also fun setting with skeleton soldiers.

holy shit, are you the autist that spammed the catalog with rabi threads because better games got more attention than it?

It just felt like it wasn’t supposed to be a Castlevania game. It was really odd to me. I also hated the god awful enemy placement at times. I just couldn’t stay engaged.

Sadly 95rs are 24 now

12 year old math checks out. This board is 18+.

>Expectations
-Movement is fun
-It’s good
>Fears
-That the quest system will remove some factors of immersion. Should be fine though as long as they don’t have a waypoint marker
-The world design won’t take full advantage of Hornet’s added agility

Shit thread for shitbugs

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ebin

But they're both good? What's the problem?

I’m 24 retard.

>Metroidvania
Hollow Knight is a Metroid-like. Bloodstained is a Metroidvania.

Know the difference. It could save your life.

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You're not fooling anyone. If you're born in 1995, you're 12 years old in 2019. Jesus christ, children get dumbed and dumber.

Nice reading comprehension, fag.

>And how much does that matter today, decades later?
If you want to know what you're talking about today, you need to understand the past.

>all these fucking gayass buzzwords
Shit like these are like when "Female Protagonist" was added as a tag for games.

whats the difference

Except this actually has a clear and distinct purpose of separating things that are not the same thing. Hollow Knight does not have tacked on RPG leveling nor does it have a wide variety of weapons/items/magic. It is very much like a Metroid game but almost nothing like Castlevania outside of being a 2D perspective action platformer.

hmmm yeah, Hollow knight is far better than that misogynistic bloodstained game,i mean in hollow knight we have 2 gay couples, a transexual character, and the knight is gender neutral, in bloodstained you play as a big titied female that poses for the OBVIOUSLY male player and there is 0 diversity, it's [CURRENT YEAR] Iga darling, get with the times

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you just described igavania metroidvania are bassed of the interconected world design and movement of characters ie dashing double jump type stuff

Trying to define Metroidvania for the sub-80 IQ monkeys is hopeless. They will always think that the Super Metroid map and world design will be enough to brand something Metroidvania.

yeah all the faggotry is Hollow Knight was way too distracting

have sex

I think you're right because the guy above you did literally that.

way to pwn the gay males my dude! floss on the haters my fellow zoomer!

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> a transexual character,
Who?

So shitposters are angry Bloodstained is good and now are going to set up this narrative between people to argue between HK and BS even though the two overlap and both games are enjoyed by the same kind of person.

Kay.

>Hollow Knight is still the uncontested king of the Metroidvania genre
Explain why

HK was boring.

Try getting past the first two bosses.

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>It was boring
>Played 54 hours
You're a next level retard

Salubra is voiced by William Pellen, a man:
youtube.com/watch?v=joWbzubrB2U
in game they refer to this....thing as a "she", also "THEY"already kinda forced him to admit the bug was trans in twitter thread,i mean, otherwise, he'd have been transphobic and misogynistic for voicing a female character as man AND DARING to not make the character trans

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The game is like 25 hours long. The padded game time is because the game is so mind numbing that I had to alt-tab to avoid falling asleep.

You idiot. I bought the game twice.

Not that guy but you sound silly. Why the hell would you force yourself through a game you didn't enjoy? Just so you can shitpost about it here without feeling bad?

If I pay for something, I'm going to finish that shit.

Or you could just refund it like a normal human would if they don't enjoy it.

>It's just a platformer with the Metroid world design, while Igavania games are action RPGs with the same world design.
Dunno what this faggot is talking about, Hollow Knight's combat is tight as fuck and hard as obsidian.

it's a simple concept really, some people just have this autistic urge to finish what they start, even if they are not really quite into it, i'm like that

>it's a simple concept really
yeah but this sperg is not gonna get it, just ignore him, stop giving him (you)'s

What does one have to do with the other? The combat is mostly used for platforming outside of boss fights.

I like both.
Hollow Knight is obviously more polished, but Bloodstained has vastly more content with enemy types, weapons, and cosmetics (even before stretch-goal DLC starts dropping).

OP is a massive fag trying to create division where there is none.
The two games are as different as metroidvanias can be.

Quit game early because I'm not enjoying it

> you didn't even get far enough to have an informed opinion on it

Play whole game to see if it gets better and to be able to critique it as a whole

> You played THAT much of a game you didn't enjoy? Yeah right.

The guy made a stupid non-argument, but people like you who find excuses to dismiss other people's criticisms can fuck right off

>Beat dragons
>Get gold chest
>Visit dominique
>Visit Alucard
>Board train
I'm about to take that last step myself.

That's fair enough. There's not really a right or wrong when it comes to media consumption. Personally I'd rather drop something if I'm just not enjoying it so I can move onto something better but I guess I can understand wanting to see things through for your own personal values.

You're right, that is a contradiction, but the far greater contradiction is "making and participating in threads about games you don't like".

are you fucking retarded?

so you've never played the game.

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What are you on about?

Yeah I couldn’t do it because I got my physical copy early and the update fucked with item metrics so I had to start again oh well.

1995 + 12 = 2019
Born in 1995 = 12 years olds in 2019

You are 180 then.

Oh shit, that sucks.

Gotta say, the non-PC versions legitimately seem like a train-wreck.

yeah that's a load of shit. Nice try retard.
Hollow Knight isn't anything political. Yeah there's a gay Smith and a sword master but if you really get your panties in a knot over 2 anthropomorphic bugs like that then Christ, you need to play a walking simulator or something.

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Hollow Knight is a fucking shitty unbalanced difficult-for-the-sake-of-difficult shitfest and I hate I wasted my money on it. It throws shit at you that wouldn't be out of place in DMC3, but doesn't give you any tools to deal with it. When an enemy throws more than one projectile, you gotta pray to the RNG gods they don't combine into an unavoidable pattern. Fuck this game. Fuck it and fuck all the fans. I wish it never existed.

Surely you're referring to the end-game DLC, right? Hollow Knight any% is easy.

Funnily enough, I couldn't get into Hollow Knight because the gameplay felt really obtuse and aimless while Bloodstained had me hooked almost immediately.

The only Castlevania game I ever played was Dawn of Sorrow since it was a DS launch title and I still think Bloodstained stands up pretty well on it's own despite the shit graphics.

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The DLC is unironically easier. Galen can suck my testicles and Soulwhatever with the bullshit slams can go fuck himself. This pile of trash should be deleted from existence. It's the Funko Pop of Dark Souls wannabes. I ain't gonna argue, I've written enough paragraphs already, just fuck this game and everyone who likes it.

Okay, m8, fuck you too.

t.obviously not a discord tranny

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>I couldn't get into Hollow Knight because the gameplay felt really obtuse and aimless
I'm playing HK for the first time and I'm loving it, but it's starting to feel pretty aimless.
At first I loved it because the feeling of being lost and wandering around was great, but now I'm 12 hours in and there isn't any story or sense of direction yet. I also have to remember what single room out of an entire area I wasn't able to get to before so that I can go back to it and see if I can progress. It's getting a bit tedious

Yeah it’s really ugly on PS4 pro but I can get past it since I am a big iga fan. The gameplay is addictive.

Every time I want to try and get into Hollow Knight upon friend recommendation, a thread like this comes along and reminds me why I shouldn’t get it, so I can avoid association with these types of smug-ass people.
Gas all indiefags, they’re a blight upon vidya.

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>Hollow Knight isn't anything political.
>there's a gay Smith and a sword master
THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARDATION

>Gay smith and sword master
Is there any actual reason to think they're romantically involved?

If living together qualifies, then Sly and the three dudes must have been having constant fourgies.

Iga created dark souls with castlevania. Miyazaki just made it work in 3D.

>gay people exist
how is this political

You have to pay close attention to get the story. It's done through NPC dialogue and journal entries. The story is very vague and if you miss certain NPC's you won't get to know too much until the end. The game has multiple endings as well with only one being the true canon ending. It's pretty hard to get lost in the game once you got your compass and go look at unexplored areas and quite a few bosses can be fought before one another so don't worry.

>Hollow Knight isn't anything political
>there's a gay Smith and a sword master but if you really get your panties in a knot over 2 anthropomorphic bugs

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not that they're even gay
they're just in the same room painting

Karl Marx invented gay people as a way to ensure white genocide.

I disagree, the interconnectedness of Dark Souls is only a small part of it, especially considering it's the only game in the entire series with that design. Definitely not fair to say "Iga created Dark Souls." Also, Metroid did it first.

the fuck is a metroid

Wait, how to you read journal entries? I found a bunch of Wanderer's Journals, but when I go to my journal in the menu it's just a bunch of enemies I've killed

Yeah, The same-y level design really doesn't help it that much in regard. Bloodstained's visual direction looks like shit but the rooms at least look distinct enough that you can mentally map out where you are fairly easily. The RPG mechanics and shard system also makes it feel like you're still progressing even when you've backtracked through an area a couple of times, which is more than what I could say for Hollow Knight.

Journal entries are through your Hunter's Journal. A lot of enemies hint towards lore in the game.

>same-y
i know it's you
why do you use this word so much

>designated coping thread

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Did it though? Dates please. Sources. I thought castlevania predated Metroid.

Eh, I can tell each area apart easily enough, it's just that when I reach a dead end in one area, the only thing left for me to do is backtrack to another area I've already been through and try and figure out if there's a path that was previously inaccessible. I agree there is way too much backtracking though, they really didn't have to restrict the Stag Stations so much

How is the level design same-y exactly?

Sorry disregard this post Metroid has it beat by a month. I was more meaning

Oh, I'll check it out then. I just looked up what the Wanderer's Journals are for, I didn't know their only use was to be sold. Same with the Seals, King's Idols, and Eggs. That's kind of disappointing desu

I think you might have me confused for somebody else. This is like the 2nd post I've made about the game since I started playing it earlier today.

I dropped Hollow Knight, didn't like it.
Having fun with Bloodstained so far.

The NPC you sell them to will also tell you stories about what they were used for so they aren't totally pointless. Some of them are quite important when it comes to what happened before the game takes place.

those 2 are lesbians

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Environmental Station Alpha is much better than Hollow Knight

Don't understand the hype here at all these guys are piss easy all you need is the dash

Everything looks really monotone and washed out. The lack of any distinct colors and the landmarks being far and far between personally made navigating a huge pain in the ass after a few hours.

Hollow Knight has very little platforming variety, and offers relatively few movement options compared to other metroidvanias. SOTN has multiple transformations with their own movement systems for example.

You are as retarded as sjw, salubra is a woman

Gotcha, thanks for the info, I'll seek him out when I'm in need of geo

I love SOTN, but the transformations are kind of a shit mechanic. They're really only useful in order to access new areas, and for the inverted castle you constantly need to use Bat form which is a pain in the ass. On the contrary, many of the abilities in HK can be very useful in combat

Every biome looks completely different from each other. You need some new glasses if you cannot tell them apart. There are plenty of fast travel stations, even a personal teleport and what not. While i agree that the charm system can be a bit limited in terms of versatility since you usually just go for raw strength, everything else you mentioned makes no sense.
The game is more about boss fights than it is platforming. I don't see how much crazy shit castlevania or metroid do in terms of platorming. You can double jump, dash, break shit and run fast and dodge through bosses in HK as well

>t. didn't pass the first area

Listen to the truth, guys, it's here.

IDK, the combat didn't particularly grab me either. It's fun, but it's not exactly deep. It feels like a simple platformer with interesting boss fights instead of a fully fleshed out combat system with move variety and builds. It's true that it's a game focused around combat over platforming, but the mechanics are always simple. ESA and Axiom Verge both have way more interesting weapons and abilities (although admittedly the bosses themselves are worse). I don't know, for me the satisfaction in a metroidvania is in the feeling of gradual character progression which I don't get in Hollow Knight. I still feel like the exact same character by the end, just with a nerfed jump and no dash. It borrowed a few mechanics from the souls subgenre while leaving combat itself as simple as it could possibly be.

maybe because people are talking about how they like the boss, not about if it's hard
no one thinks they're hard

Most of these fags haven't even made it to any of the difficult fights.

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I expect there will be no character customization and different weapons to try out, thus making the game become stale very quickly.

My fear Is that they learned nothing from hollow knights shortcomings simply because of all the praise they received for it and lack of criticism.

HOW THE FUCK DO I BEAT THE 4TH PANTHEON

From what I've seen in the trailer and demo it seems like they've learned a lot desu.

Do the bosses on Hall of Gods and learn their fights properly. Beating them on radiant should prepare you for the big boi pantheon stuff which is 4 and 5.

___ ___

When is Silksong coming out?

Radiant PV first. Everybody else will look like a fucking joke after that

Like what? I watched the trailer it just looks like HK with a new coat of paint.

Anytime between now and March 2020.

Feb 2020
Wait, that's Ori

It's really not... Even fucking Rabi-Ribi beats it by far in terms of tight controls and combat. Was HK your first metroidvania?

>there's a gay Smith and a sword master
wat

Eh not really boring but too much padding and I didn't give a shit about the world for the most part.

Yes they are so stunning and brave

I've played a lot of HK. And two big things I always ragged on about the game was how slow the pacing was at the start and the overall abilities, which while sufficient, doesn't make map traversal that fun.

From the get go I already saw:
>a movement system that will feel vastly better than the first game
>with the demo showcase it looks like they're already speeding up the early game
>a revamped charm system akin to aos/dos that's more involved
>and even the Lace bossfight while looking easy and already highlighted the massive potential of future boss designs
The only thing I'm still iffy about is how they handle quests but everything else so far just seems like a major improvement on the first game.

based bugposter

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>Even
But Rabi-Ribi IS one of the tightest metroidvanias because of how much it asks from you to beat all the bullet hell bosses. Especially on higher difficulties.

That's both a compliment to bunny c*nny and HK.

>That's both a compliment to bunny c*nny and HK.
Definitely, I love them both

They're like the only two metroidvanias so far that actually made me go autistic tryhard. BEX and Godmaster back-to-back made me want to kill myself by the end of it.

I REALLY wanted to try get into this game. I bought it around when it released on Steam, but admittedly I haven't made it very far... It wasn't too hard or anything but I just kinda find myself getting a little bored. I tried to get back into it but I didn't remember you needed a charm to see your position on the map and I got lost and wasn't sure where to go, I went back to again and figured how to progress but I just becoming more and more unmotivated to play this game. Bloodstained has already become very addicting to play on the other hand, I don't doubt that Hollow Knight is great, but I just keep losing motivation to play every time I start it up. I wish the game had more lively music too.

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Metroid vs Symphony of the Night

>I wish the game had more lively music too.
wot?
youtube.com/watch?v=o5_nMrARi-k

That sounds okay.

Hollow Knight took too much inspiration from Metroid. Like the only blatant thing they got from Castlevania was Grimm and he's basically the best boss in the game.

hollow knight is overrated as fuck..

Ori is better

Symphony is too easy.
And then they throw Galamoth at you.
Seriously what the fuck is this shit? I just walk in the room and die. Its like what all those memes said about dark souls bosses instakilling you or something except its actually like that.
Do i need a special item or something?

Galamoth has a distinct pattern that is avoidable, and is made easier with the Crissaegrim or Alucard's shield + Shield Rod.

At the time, I didn't know about either of those weapons so I beat him the old fashion way.

>a movement system that will feel vastly better than the first game
Hornet starts off with the movement capabilities HK had to learn, except ledge grabs, thats new, but not that big of a deal.
>with the demo showcase it looks like they're already speeding up the early game
The area with the first boss looked like a worse version of greenpath.
>a revamped charm system akin to aos/dos that's more involved
I mean theres no evidence of that. It looks like we may be able to craft charms but again thats not a big deal and sounds like we'll be grinding for materials.
>and even the Lace bossfight while looking easy and already highlighted the massive potential of future boss designs
Its the same fight as hornet in HK literally almost copy pasted moveset.

I think it'll be fun but imma make a bold prediction here and say it'll be worse than HK.

>equip bracelet
>win
wow, so hard

>Deep docks looks like a shittier version of Greenpath
What the fuck are you smoking

Now that's fucking bold. Everything I've seen so far only points to it being vastly better. There's already a tester that confirmed the new charm system is more like the tactical souls shit the Sorrows game did. Also Lace from the get go already does a parry that deals two pips of damage, the earliest bosses you can fight that deal two damage in HK are Failed Champion and Traitor Lord.

Not him but Hornet can insta full heal so the two damages isn't really an issue.

Yes but that's important because it means it opens the floor to boss design that's more relentless than the first game.

You did save all of them, didn't you user?

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I did. And grubberfly's elegy is absolute shit
>does less than one nail hit damage even with the strength charm equipped
>Doesnt give soul
>Useless against radiant bosses because of the above two reasons and no way to activate peril beam with fury of the fallen
Charm slots better spent on mark of pride instead

Im talking about the moss place where you fight the moss mother idiot. You dont know how early in the game deep dock is.

>I don't see how much crazy shit castlevania or metroid do in terms of platorming. You can double jump, dash, break shit and run fast and dodge through bosses in HK as well

It doesn't measure up to shine sparking; space-jumping and screw-attacking; morph ball puzzles; in Metroid and how exhaustive those are used in combat; world navigation and puzzle solving.

Same for Metroidvanias where you can turn into a bat to achieve full flight; turn into mist to pour yourself through cracks (or poison enemies). Or Metroidvanias where the setting itself has puzzle-gimmicks. Like how Harmony of Dissonance involves two mirror dimensions that connect and influence one another.

If I have to put my finger on the one thing that irks me about Hollow Knight, it's that its mechanics just don't form a whole. They almost all feel like: "we've got to have ability, because other games in the genre have it" followed by "now that we have ability, we need to justify it by gating exploration in place ."

Are you talking about absorbing the bosses abilities after you beat them? Didn't HK already do that sort of? And Faster doesn't always mean better. The more power you give the player the more risk there is of the game becoming too easy. If HK isn't challenging its going to get boring real fast. And both the areas shown dont look anywhere near as atmospheric as the areas in HK. I hope i'm wrong.