Is making video games really that stressful...

Im not a vidya developer but if I was I wouldn't bitch about my job and try to steal by starting a union.
Fuck you, socialist

I worked some the worst of physical jobs around here (mining, budget construction, renovation, concrete smashing etc.) and some fairly bad paper pusher kind of office jobs, they're both bloody horrible in different ways, though I would probably pick most physical ones over my current office job. The effect of rapidly doing stuff, always accurately, always on time all day while being physically inactive and staring at a monitor has on your body is seriously, bloody dangerous and guys doing that stuff are very underappreciated, it's probably going to take a generation of fuckups who work like that all throughout their life for people to realize how strenous stuff like this really and how it can be horrible for the body if pursued long term and in a bad environment.

How did we go from people like John Carmack, who can spend entire days programming and reading about math and technology; Or Iwata, who literally saved Melee from being delayed; to faggots who can't work with premade engines and think that working in tech should have the same level of complexity as being a paper-pusher?

That has already happened and it's called japan

gamedevs are our generations poor artists
they go willingly to work for nothing because they believe it's cool. If the retards had more business sense and wouldn't accept shit conditions to live their dream nobody would exploit them like the willing slaves they are.

60, laying concrete

I work 72 hour weeks fixing gigantic factory machines. Even if these guys are pulling 80 hour weeks they're doing so sitting on their ass in an air conditioned office. Actually whiny little faggots

Not everyone is as talented and commited to their jobs as those two examples you mentioned. I'm not defending the unionizing but expecting that much of the employees of this or any kind of industry is reductive, not to mention childish.

It is
Low wages, fucked up deadlines and low skills from the game devs (because the smarter coders all go to work to bigger and better paying companies that are not game developers)

How are unions socialism and not just freedom

>hurr the work isn't physically dangerous so you don't need a union
As can easily be seen in 21st century America, companies can still fuck you even when the work isn't physically hazardous. And when that happens, there's no shortage of right-wing bootlickers who scream that any regulation of corporations is communism and that poor people just need to work harder to become more successful just like the CEOs who deserve more tax cuts.

The first is an autistic savant who could code doom in a hydrualics computer he made on a deserted island and the second is from a country that thinks suicide is glorious

Neither are normal humans

>CNN, Buzzfeed and other media outlets have a massive layoff of opinion column writers who just so happen to be SJWs and other liberal trash
>Immediately there's a wave of articles about how the gaming industry needs unions so that workers would be protected from... something
Nothing suspicious here
Nope, nothing at all.

Attached: 1560006105111.jpg (720x540, 101K)

> t. english lit major

In praxis they prevent garbage workers from getting fired. If you ain't shit yourself you don't benefit from this. You just pay because you have to carry that deadweight.

are you implying that unions are a bad thing? Bargaining collectively massively increases the strength of labor to resist bullying from management, for very little trade off.

>I don't know anything whatsoever about game development
>But I think it probably isn't hard, maybe
Ok

Attached: 1519220342067.png (540x1052, 348K)

Im not for unions but it's pretty clear shit is not so great right now. Wages have been stagnating for decades.

Is this a pasta? I swear I have seen this post before at some point in the last 3 years. At least the opening (I have done this heavy jobs, including the examples) is the same

I can see you've never had to deal with unscrupulous owners firing people on a whim so they can bring in people who will do the job cheaper. This "they keep incompetent employees from losing their jobs" meme is just that.

>film industry has largely abandoned Hollywood and the state of California because all the unions associated with their industry
>a bunch of pathetic hack c-list celebs & child actors who couldn't make it in Hollywood go on crusades to unionize video game industry
>cost of union gets passed to consume while greedy hypercapitalist piggybanks like Sweeney, Zenimax, EA execs continue to fracture whole business up aggressively pushing for exclusivity contracts
What could possibly go wrong?

>Im not for unions, I just hate all the things that are happening because of weak unions

Attached: revengineering.jpg (680x438, 66K)

10 proles are more useful to the emoloyers than 1 elite prole and will fight for his rights better than he could alone.

Think about it
The video game industry makes more than the movie industry
than the music industry

each of these have the people producing the work making hundreds of thousands to millions doing so

game devs are basically slaves to publishers and higher ups
I'd rather be homeless than that type of slave

user you don't get it, i come from a country where we had unions and it got really bad. The whole "it helps bad workers" is not a meme, the unions constantly tried to keep people down and keep around really bad workers.

That's just an argument for global unions

POLTARDS OUT

>implying we don't have here an army of CS degree nerds who did everything at some point

it's not harder than doing excel work. You could learn to do 3d modeling in a week. Rest is just whether you have talent as an artist. Codemonkey work is the same. The only heavy lifting is done by the guys who write engines and some of the smarter tool chains.

wrong lol.

How do I abandon my humanity?

Why are you being mysterious about your country? Just say it. Also I don't know why you'd lie about unions of all things.

Of course, both happens. The question is just what you care more about. If you're not at risk of getting fired you don't worry about that.

Is it just me or is /pol/ seriously losing influence? Seems like the rest of Yea Forums has turned against them.

idk maybe it's just cause I've worked in theater and movie production my whole life but I feel like all these articals about crunch just seem like bullshit from a bunch of salty loners who thought that finally getting a job in the business would jet propel them to stardom and assholey commanding power, only for them to realize you have to actually work in order to make a name for yourself.

well, you shouldn't have gotten into making video games if you're not happy with the fixed salary. you deserve nothing more than what you signed up for. just because your employers are making a lot of money, it doesn't mean they have to share with you when you've already gotten what you were promised.

>this thread again
You people are like a dog with a bone

Attached: 1492982428893.gif (450x523, 85K)

The work environment gets "worse and worse" and the games also suck more and more. Maybe the winning the move is to just not to participate until it becomes something better.

Alcohol

Coding is hard bruh

>crunch isn't real
ok if you say so user

>just because your boss is stealing the money you make doesn't mean you can't ask for more

>Fuck you, socialist
Yes how dare people want to not be screwed over, those darn socialists.

Bet you want child labor to become a thing again too. I wonder if you would have believed their argument as well back then that without child labor the companies will not be able to sustain themselves anymore

>implying we don't have here an army of CS degree nerds who did everything at some point
What does this even mean? "did everything at some point"?
>it's not harder than doing excel work. You could learn to do 3d modeling in a week.
This is just a load of bullshit
>Rest is just whether you have talent as an artist.
In other words it takes more than 3 weeks? Ok.
>The only heavy lifting is done by the guys who write engines and some of the smarter tool chains.
I like how you say codemonkeys don't do much, then you openly admit that yeah they do a lot of important stuff it's just not ALL important. What a retarded post this is.

bernie sure knows his demographic

>I don't count because of... reasons though

Attached: 0Q51B2J.png (512x512, 144K)

you deserve nothing more than what you signed up for

It's in South America. The union always tried to fuck people over. The union would make sure to keep everyone down and people with talent where sabotaged and fucked with anyone who wanted to succed. People in the US think it's all rainbows and roses but unions can get really corrupt.

The problem are absolute dumbfucks who put the company and fellow employers at risk and still get protected by the union. One idiot here thought he was very smart and ignored everything without getting fired until he finally managed to kill a dude crushing him under a lift cause he again ignored the warning sign put by the dude working under it. Absolute retards deserve the rope and systems that support them need to go too.

14 on 14 off 12 hours a day. Working in mining, not coal though.

whiny zoomers

I didn't say crunch isn't real.

>like it or leave it goy. Wait no don't organize, help, communism! Rape! The ingratitude!

Repost this for a few more weeks and maybe we will see then

Yeah try enforcing those lol. Unions only work in Tourist Cities.

I have. I just quit and got another job, but there's more demand then there are workers in my line of work

Attached: 1560541362705.jpg (768x1024, 102K)

KEK this. weak beggars and males who act like females.

>It's in South America.
Wow, the entire continent!
I think it's funny you STILL won't say your country and you honestly believe anyone will take you seriously.

>amerilards in this thread with their retarded arguments against unions
In the civilized world it has long proven to be a benefit to society, strengthening the financial security of a country's population because they are not so easily screwed by the companies they work for, actually getting fair treatment.

Try to think instead of being contrarian.

Artists are cheap and widely available. Learning 3d design isn't a big hurdle = 3d artists are cheap.

Codemonkeys are the guys writing scripts and other small shit that make the game. They are the majority of the programmers employed. The guys writing the engine aren't even part of the dev team.

Why not just space games out more? Do we need an assassins creed game every year? Do we really need a new cod every year? Also, end games as a service.

Its the worst, most predatory field under the computer science umbrella. Thousands of fresh out of college junior developers willing to get paid way under market because of muh vidya dreams means no job security and shit conditions. Avoid at all costs.

the fuck are you on about? it's like this in the US too. i worked at major parcel company a decade ago, and they WANT the bad, lazy, troublesome factory workers to stay, and it's impossible for them to get fired. a lot of them just don't show up.

Crunchwork may not involve heavy physical labor but repetitive, monotone work in front of a screen is no less harmful to the human body.

Before unions they literally paid mercenaries to kill their workers and children grew up with malformed skeletons from the acute vitamin D deficiency they acquired by staying in a dark factory all day.

>goy
it's better to leave kike companies, yes, i agree with you

Similar to the anime industry it's rapid growth is causing stress on the small number of people working these games or the fact that larger projects(Like EA's latest failure Anthem) get shipped across boarders for its entire development and by the end no one knew what kind of game they were making.

So yes it can be bad but I'm just going to assume this a thinly veiled /pol/ thread where no one talks about anything substantive and we just shitpost.

something something seethe cope dilate 40%

Now, yeah.
If you have a smaller team and no pressure to release a game at a set time, it's not as hard. Certain developers back in the 90's wouldn't have the funds to make a game in today's industry and would be considered indie. Treasure may have been an indie developer for example.

Imagine getting socialist ideals and your political beliefs about unions and workers' rights from a guy who's literally never had a job other than politics in his entire life and owns a vacation mansion for every season in various places across the US.

As long as these companies keep making hand over fist selling yearly releases they'll keep making them and there will always be fans to defend them.

It's called champagne socialism

He owns 2 homes and made his first million off his books last year but whatever.

Yes, stop being contrarians because the SJWs are right about this single thing

Devs are absolutely exploited and overworked by the overpaid suits who own them and companies should be called out for pushing crunch, or at least when they push an excessive amount of it regularly

>therefore his stance is invalid
Sure thing corporatecuck.

Why are unions socialism but oligopoly conspiracies free market?

Here's your you u fucking moron

>haha yeah! fight the man!
>but still wants to work for, feed him, and make him even more rich
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

those were coal mine children afaik, not factory kids. That aside you don't need an union for such a problem. You need countrywide regulation. And mercenaries were actually employed to kill union leaders because these fuckers value money over their wageslaves lives. Unions can't negotiate against getting killed. If it really comes down that you need more than just a union.

You made the mistake of thinking anyone on this board knowing anything about politics beyond Twitter threads and obsessing over trannies for their opinions on their favourite new game.

>Learning 3d design isn't a big hurdle = 3d artists are cheap.
Is there any proof or source to this or should I just trust you bro lol
Because it sounds like a gigantic load of horseshit.
>Codemonkeys are the guys writing scripts and other small shit that make the game. They are the majority of the programmers employed. The guys writing the engine aren't even part of the dev team.
Most game devs don't make their own game engines. And even if you use unity or whatever there's still dozens if not hundreds of hours of programming that goes into all this.
This is just silly because you're saying that, because most coding is relatively simple, people shouldn't get paid a lot? That makes no sense because you can break any job down and say it's super easy. You're still having people working 8-12 hours a day, typing out code. How is that not stressful? People get stressed if they're animating cartoons too, even if it's a relatively simple show.

He has done nothing before his presidential run. He is a brand now. What a fucking state of the site when you can't shit talk career politicians.

Attached: 1111.png (402x340, 211K)

Game dev is one of the few IT positions that's actually a mistake to get into. Especially if it's an AAA studio.

Nigga not him but as someone from Puerto Rico, I can tell you that unrestrained public unions are the worst shit imaginable. Motherfuckers are lazy as fuck and are always on strike for every little thing. Most regular people here despises them for a reason.

>John Carmack, who can spend entire days programming and reading about math and technology
John Carmack also exercised regularly, went to the gym and trained in martial arts

>weird how you live in a society yet you critique it
>i am very smart

The best part of being an American is that I dont owe anyone shit. Just because I am born in the same nation as someone in no way means I owe them anything

He was a carpenter, dumbass.

you deserve nothing more than what you signed up for. this isn't about feelings no matter how you feel.

>"Dude, just trust me", the post.
Yeah that's why the ones in America are restrained, we're not retarded like South Americans

Sakurai was pushed to crunch so bad during Sm4sh and Ultimate that he crippled his hand, and eventually needed some sort of IV in his arm to deal with the pain

It's awesome to see people so dedicated to making games and those who go the extra mile should be recognized, but stop fetishizing bodily harm and mental strain due to overworked conditions, it's not good for people and outside of rare exceptions doesn't tend to make for good games

Attached: mr-wide-5a4a4ef1a6e20.jpg (950x605, 67K)

Don't even bother with libertardians. They're all against the oppressive state but totally okay with wage slavery and corporate ownership.

wtf does that have to do with the post

oh it was just a strawman argument to save face

Incorrect. You're thinking of Somalia. Enjoy seething over taxes as theft

You could always look up his involvement in various bills and political movements since the 60's.

Long hours, sleep deprivation are shitty for your health it doesn't matter what kind of work you're doing at that point.

>no argument
nice going brainlet

that has nothing to do with my point, my point is he advocates for a group he's never even remotely been a part of, and never will be, he comes from an extremely wealthy career politics family, and even owning 2 homes kind of goes against everything he says he stands for, the people he claims to represent barely scrape by with the rent for their apartments, just further proof that you're a fucking idiot for following him in any way

are you implying the US economy is an oligarchy conspiracy?

>All of our employees should live and die for the company, but don't expect good fees or working conditions

Libertarianism is a joke.

Actually somalia is the result of a failed communist states. Soeaking off you should lobe the socialist paradise that is North Korea

why cant kuckbois figure out how a contract with a fixed salary works? it's what they signed up for and loterally signed their name in order to receive

>no argument
Yeah that was my problem with your post. "Dude, seriously just trust me! LOL!"

I don't want to fight the man, I understand and accept that a richer upper class does (and needs to) exist. I just want the man to stop wringing me as dry as he does, to pay for his three sports cars and golf tourneys, while ignoring his own company going to shit because he culled his staff to save shekels and made conditions so miserable that his workers wanna KILL THEMSELVES

Attached: Your+description+doing+me+a+concern+fren+_3685984854110d792441885cc0a35f4b.jpg (720x606, 83K)

what in the actual fuck are you talking about? Bernie did nothing but dabble in writing shitty books like his idol Marx until he was in his late 40s when he became a senator, his family was rich, he never had to work a day in his life and has never known what it's like to worry about whether you're going to be able to pay the bills or where his next meal was coming from, he is possibly the absolute worst person to be advocating for the little guy

>point out engines are bought not coded by dev team nowadays
>can't refute
>claims no argument
are you legit retarded?

>are you implying the US economy is an oligarchy conspiracy?
Well considering (((they))) buy out your politicians on both the left and right, yes.

Also, career politicians are not inherently bad if they propose policies that people appeal to the needs of the people. Shillary could have easily won if she had any substantive policy idea but she didn't, she ran a campaign entire on muh drumpf and almost won if it werent for Florida and Michigan being wise.

then don't sign up for it. simply: stop being a lackey bitch. you can find other work. you put yourself in this situation.

if you aren't a woman seek help now

Fixed salary = fixed hours

Dude, your entire post was full of "dude just trust me" shit. Like claiming that 3D modeling is super easy to learn, but then saying that you can only utilize it well if you're a good artist. Which kinda negates the whole "anyone can learn it" argument, but yeah. There was no argument, just "hey here's completely unprovable opinions I hold." Fuck off, faggot

Nah senpai. I’m G&E and I realize that even though I’m used to working 16+ on shitshow features with garbage pay doesn’t mean it’s cool to do so. When you’re starting out, sure, it’s gonna be tough, but when you’re a good couple years in it shouldn’t be that horrible.

Wrong.

Dude was a mayor until the 90s, why do y'all always push 60s part of his life? Putting up fliers is nothing.

Unions operate as a monopoly in order to counteract the monopsony of the firm. When either of them have more market power there will be deadweight loss to society, but in theory they should meet at an equilibrium.
>extremely wealthy career politics family
His father sold paint.
>richer upper class does (and needs to) exist
Yes, but they cannot horde too much wealth. There are economic pitfalls to it, that I won't get into but just look up economic arguments relating to income inequality.

>No argument
>Y-you're a lady
Seems like you're the woman here because you're acting like a little bitch

that has nothing to do with labor unions and everything to do with it being Puerto fucking Rico

no

>muh pay
>muh union
>I am hurt ughhh too much video game making today

HOLY FUCKING BALLS MY GRANDPA SHIFTED 30KG APPLE BOXES FOR 12 HOURS A DAY WITH A PAY OF 1500$ A MONTH AND HE COMPLAINED LESS THAN THESE PATHETIC MOZZARELLA ARM KEKS

HOLY SHIT I MAD, SPINELESS WHIMPS TRY A REAL JOB BEFORE YOUR MEME CODING AND SEE HOW FUCKED YOU ARE LMEO I BET YOU CANT EVEN LIFT A GARBAGE BAG

and labor deserves every concession it can wring from management

>People in the past had it rough so never complain about anything
Bootlicker

BUT MUH (((FREE))) MARKET

>don't sign up for work if you want to be fairly treated at work

If Iwata is a saint for crunching to get Melee and Pokemon GS out (and he is, don't get me wrong), then surely you must also think he's great for owning up to the bomb of the Wii U and taking a huge pay cut, along with sakurai and Miyamoto, to make sure his company's conditions didn't suffer

So why can't western devs do it?

Attached: IMG_20190311_132949.jpg (343x232, 22K)

Looks at the offices these developers work in, all the toys and social shit is telling.

Crunch is the result of shitty project management letting the devs fuck about for most of the development. The teams then cry about how hard they have it when they have to make up the work in the push to go live.

Your grandpa probably died an early death and probably wasn't that smart if that's all he could do. You have idiocy in your genes thanks to him so don't worry, I don't blame you for being retarded.

Union membership was higher when your grandfather was still working.

THIS. So much this!!
Socialism is like, just making things fair for the little guy, we all deserve to have a fair share of the output of your work, to be honest working nowadays is comparable to slavery, we do all the work and get a pittance in return, fuck late stage capitalism

false, your grandpa's generation complained plenty and that gave us labor regulations that you take for granted

Attached: labor_history.png (650x629, 94K)

>neither are normal humans

or maybe everyone else is a faggot

Yea man destroy your employer. Great thinking

how is that bootlicking? It's an appeal to tradition if anything

Attached: 1264904266198.jpg (600x454, 57K)

The hoarding is absolutely the issue, I agree
Rather than actually taking care of the stable of work horses they run ragged, and living a slightly more modest but still charmed life for it, they let the conditions go to shit and then put down the horses when said conditions make them sick and slow down their work output, and use that to justify hoarding even more money

Attached: fce8f6a6-40d1-4855-9fa2-beca22d767ea.png (540x424, 231K)

The funny thing is we did end up outsourcing to continue this bullshit.

what a pathetic boot licking post

I've done construction, lineman work and intensive IT work.

All are equally bad, while I'm not physically as exhausted after a 12 hour IT day, my mental state is pretty much toast. When I worked outside doing IT lineman work (ie laying fiber cables, going into manholes, fixing copper, etc) everyone would complain the inside guys did nothing and worked less than we did.

Having done both I'd say they are equal. Intense ling hours coding and doing sysadmin stuff is incredibly draining mentally, were as doing outside labor is incredibly draining physically.

The real issue is that people on either side of the road thing the other side works less. Now that I'm an inside guy, everyone talks about how the more labor intensive side of things doesnt work as hard, because we stay late more than they do.

Working fucking sucks.

Because it's directly saying never to complain about working conditions or companies because your gwandpa worked hard for the man too
>Appeal to tradition
Either way, it's bootlicking

This is an oversimplified pleb position because you're not taking into account that the entire industry is collectively turning into what the user you're replying to described. You can't just "get another job" when they're ALL in on it.

I wonder how poltards deal with the dissonance here. Like, big corps are evil crony capitalism but at the same time workers' rights are communism.

>increase the cost of employment
>firms use it as an excuse to raise the cost of games
>same basedboys complain

Any other software development job is nowhere near as bad as game development. That's all they are anyway, over glorified software engineers.

Ok wtf is bootlicking? I always thought it was being a kiss ass and/or slurping at an authority's cock

>negotiating for better pay and conditions will destroy your employer
How does corporate cock taste?
Appeal to tradition is pretty much bootlicking anyway.
Yeah and shit has gotten worse since 2008 also. Look at how generational wealth growth has decreased and the Gini of the US has gotten worse and worse.
All to fill the coffers of people who already have everything.

/pol/ isn't one person

what's "harder" those who make the art part of the game or those who code it?

Being lead programmer in a tiny company and being one of many in a large company where you are likely sitting all day fixing bugs somebody else wrote would be rather different experiences. I guess they are still whiny but I think the same person in John Carmack's situation would behave very differently to how he might in the other.

>Appeal to tradition is pretty much bootlicking anyway.
Reminds me of our local college. One of the frats there was doing away with initiations because a few kids got hurt pretty bad by some alumnuses. So said alumnuses were protesting, with signs like "We had to do it, so should you!"
They eventually stopped the protest when a bunch of kids on campus heard that they used to make the guys go naked, and so everyone started making fun of them and saying they were all secretly gay. When the rumor got out to the protestors they just... gave up

Sorry random story but reminded me of that

You'll find that most /pol/ users fall into 3 categories

>true white power types who want actual genocide against anyone who isnt white
>people who think owning the libs is important and think being rightwing isnt mainstream despite Trump winning
>people who just want (you)s, saying "controversial" things to get a reaction

that is irrelevant to whether or not they are freedom

And I'm from the United States. I worked for Harley Davidson and the union was great. Anyone who hates unions either has only dealt with shitty unions or actually believes the shit corporate pushes.

Attached: 20160806_022007.jpg (4032x2268, 2.67M)

Why are you spontaneously thinking about /pol/ in this thread? Are you obsessed or something?

ITT r/chapotraphouse runs wild

Attached: 1557905984421.jpg (396x382, 41K)

You getting so defensive about it is evidence enough

>Harley Davidson
My uncle works for them, and he's pretty much always said that they treat all of their employees right.

love this thread

It is?

Fuck you, you alt right Trump supporting nazi!

>thread about politics, with the OP image being a tweet from the democratic frontrunner
>oh no why are you bring up the politics board!

Oh gee, what happened to Harley? Thats right, their greedy unions ruined the company. Good point, retard

>Pointing out how obsessed I am is proof that my obsession is valid
Okay retard.

Get a stone mask and dye your hair blonde

>Thats right, their greedy unions ruined the company.
In... what way? Or are you being as vague as possible because you wanna shitpost

Both are equally difficult for different reasons.

Imagine you spend multiple weeks on concept art, models, etc only for the director to be like nah we dont need that shit son

Imagine spending weeks coding something only to have to start over because of some bug, or because the game isnt working right

Yeah, I'd say it's the best factory anywhere around here. I'd still be there if I didn't want to get into IT. Hell, I even tried to get in as a cart jockey (command center) after I got my certs, but they already hired enough for surge.

>Implying that Yea Forums going on about other boards and sites is anything new

This board has been butthurt about Reddit since 2011.

At least with coal mining, you don't have to worry about diversity quotas, censorship, or if your product has glitches.

Most hazing rituals are gay as fuck. I don't mean that as an insult, but seriously reading about hazing rituals there's a ton of homoeroticism and literally gay shit that they do to each other. I don't get it, just do a fucking blood pact or some shit instead of cumming on food and eating it or fondling each other or whatever.

The only way to bring jobs back to America is to stop taxing these companies all together. Unions only hurt companies, and companies provide jobs.

Unions have done nothing good

...so what is wrong about my post? You admit you are here.

And yet, despite all this, the lingering boomer tier rhetoric of licking corporate asshole for good boy points remains
And I know the alternative is giving more power to the government to control the corporations, which is dangerous in and of itself because the government likes any excuse to take a mile from inches, but like
What am I even supposed to do at this point, I'm so tired of having to be on guard 24/7 for being exploited

Attached: d895400d151eb44fe7da8a146b6fa7f2.png (927x879, 686K)

Harley is hemorrhaging money esp compared to better companies like Indian that dont cater to a bunch of union socialists

lol imagine being this much of a corporate cocksucker

A tunnel collapse is a glitch
Companies dont pay taxes. They pass the costs onto consumers

So in a normal software development job, making enterprise software, you are paid a metric shitton of money, your do very little work each day, if the project needs to get delayed for quality, it's delayed, your company is paid up front, and occasionally you may need to actually put in a 50 hour week near an important deadline. In video game development, your time table is set by your publisher, not the actual time it would take to do things. You company is paid when/IF the product sells not before. You personally are underpaid for two reasons; one, the company doesn't want to risk getting stuck down the line with high salaries when the sales aren't coming in, and two, the demand for the jobs outstrips the supply. So many dumb CS students go to school for "video games" because they play video games and want to make video games and don't realize making games is a hobby you do on the side while you code enterprise software for a living (which, as I stated earlier provides plenty of money and free time to afford that hobby), and not something you do at work where you won't even be making your game, you'll be making the publisher's game.

So yes, making video games professionally is stressful, but they're doing it to themselves so I have no sympathy.

Tell that to the shareholders that want to suck the money out of every consumer's cock. I hope another crash happens.

I'd rather all the jobs leave than come back as slave drivers. The real answer is to impose tariffs so they're stuck here.

I'm gonna lol so hard when Warren takes his spot and the Berniebros will have to suck up to another neolib woman

Attached: 1560107741701.jpg (225x225, 9K)

They're hemorrhaging money because no one wants to buy a Harley but old boomers who are starting to get too old to ride.

Millennials can't afford an expensive bike, and the current models harley sells are mostly aimed at an older demographic.

sororities do a lot of lesbian shit too.
its supposed to be a call back to the degeneracy of Greek times (hence greek names). The greeks were the most disgusting barbaric and polygamous group of people in the world. Plato was an open child molestor for christs sake. Joining a frat is basically you saying that you want to be a bisexual tyrant who fucks every living thing in site. How fraternities and sororities havent been outlawed and banned like mafias and or gangs shows how fucked our society is.

>Regular peasents are still anti union
>Think having to pay $1000 a year in union dues outweighs the increased wages and benefits they will get

Lol stay mad company cucks i dont remember the last time i made less than $90,000 a year

Attached: rich pepe.jpg (182x276, 9K)

Actually it's Drumpf's fault, as usual.
bbc.com/news/business-48031660

>It's in South America. The union always tried to fuck people over.

Sounds like a bad union. No problems here in america

And why cant they cut costs? Because they are being gouged by the unions. Without the benefits they are shelling out they could compete.

debate sam seder

>He hasnt tasted the union Kool-Aid
>He doesnt want 5 weeks paid vacation and a pension

Attached: pffft.png (500x375, 341K)

Good goyim, stop taxing corporations. Don't interfere with their amoral extortion of their workers and the environment. They provide (((jobs))) for you little men to slave away at, and which certainly won't replace you once you wind up sick or injured. Who needs anyone advocating for employee rights? Down with the unions.

The issue is clearly taxation not working, and not at all that corporations exploit loopholes to not pay taxes and push their burden onto the consumer, nono

Tell that to Detroit

It is their God-given right to organise. If the strong wish to stand up for the weak, then let them do so.

>i dont remember the last time i made less than $90,000 a year

Is that really owner/capitalist money? Doesnt seem so much

>And why cant they cut costs? Because they are being gouged by the unions.

Lmao. Or because of everything that post says. Who the fuck buys a harley in now?

>workers don't deserve any pay. Organized capital is always right.
How much corporate cock have you sucked?
The real issue is that even if you give government power to try to regulate corporations, those corporations still fund the shit out of the government so you get this negative feedback loop of trying to have something change and then corruption neutering it. Just look at Dodd-Frank or any campaign finance bill that was run.
And as for boomers they couldn't care less that things are vastly worse than when they entered the labor market, they were the original ME generation, so "fuck you they got theirs".

Do you have a learning difficulty? You literally took someone pointing out how obsessed you are as proof of your obsession, this is like asking someone if they're planning to steal something of yours, and then when they say you're being paranoid you burst out with "HA, THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU WOULD SAY IF YOU WERE GOING TO STEAL IT, SO I'M RIGHT"

Maybe they should just make not shit bikes instead and make more money.

Attached: 1526965864444.gif (500x362, 151K)

>1▶
>File: rich pepe.jpg (9 KB, 182x276)
>>Regular peasents are still an
based

Do not conflate collective bargaining with unions. They are two separate things and one of them is total cancer that hurts workers.

Lol holy fuck was this bait?

Attached: mommy.webm (500x700, 816K)

Ok I just asked a question tho

Tell that to the entirety of the trade unions across america. Grew up in a union family, we're doing great

Yeah, Harley makes shittier bikes and have been living on borrowed time for quite a long time. Remember that time Harley wanted tariffs on Jap bikes? Now that Harley makes their bikes in Mexico we can't have tariffs though oh no no ha ha ha look at those boomer hypocrite executives.

They cut the costs of the bikes by not paying union wages. Less benefits, lower pay = cheaper bikes able to compete. The unions are making them unable to compete

yes, that's what it is. Which is why I called a bootlicker the person who says "you deserve nothing more than what you signed up for" then says labor treating management in a similarly mercenary manner is "destroying your employer". He's just looking for excuses to suck up to authority and stick it to his fellow man.

Is making sure that the people working on your videogames are provided with decent wages and not worked to the bone really such an impossible request? It might seem like a reasonable demand but apparently reality dictates that such a thing is impossible. Either companies won't do it (which make them assholes) or they can't do it (which is depressing). Regardless it is a very sad state of affairs.

Attached: 1517516605480.png (451x619, 429K)

>Do not conflate collective bargaining with unions.

You're genuinely clueless

Oh they can do it

>AT LEAST ITS NOT THE GOVERNMENT TREADING ON ME

Don't forget to pay your union dues, fucking retard.

>Work in a bottom feeder, wage slave call center
>But being yorupoor, I have more benefits and better quality of life despite making much less than a fucking programmer in a AAA company

10 days of vacations, no medical insurance and limited justified sick days is borderline third world fucking conditions. What the fuck is wrong with Amerifats. No wonder you fuckers fry your brains and start mixing genders or claim casual sex without explicit consent is rape. You fuckers somehow manage to work more than fucking Japanese people, who are bred since birth that dying for the company is good.

>do not conflate the most important part of a union to a union

Attached: 1366579943331.png (571x540, 434K)

Underage detected

NO! everyithing is okay, theres none such thing as overwork!

elaborate

>it's another "17-year-olds think they understand economics and unions thread"

Attached: 1490213137702.jpg (736x550, 38K)

>hurr durr unions gud!1
Unions exist to fleece morons like you.

>Yea Forums literally supports kikes
I knew it

Those people are faggots, liberals and anti american traitors. Why would I give a fuck they are being exploited? I hope they starve to death

My field doesnt have a union. Wish it did. Average pay increase vastly eclipses union dues.

Now elaborate on how collective bargaining and unions are different. Be specific, use examples.

collective bargaining is literally the whole point of organized labor

Game developers can't unionize. They simply can't. The demand for their skill is 10x lower than the number of people willing to do it. Anytime a union tried to strike, the managers would just be like "This - right here - is a stack of 4,018 applications we received. For your job. This month. But, please, tell us all about your demands."

Try not to choke on corporate cock, user.

fucking retard learn basic english before sentencing people in your idiocy

complaining about fucking software development when there are people who wake up at 3 and break their back while simultaneously risking their lives? check your fucking priviledge dumb bimbo because those people will lead your ass when shit hits the fan and not your dumbass "game development" degree

how many of you know how to fight even? if attacked by an armed man do you just cry for mommy? "lets remove the forced service" they said and now look at you bitching because you are mildly inconvenienced in a job where you dont expose yourself to the elements, dont risk your life and have all the comfort of your stupid ass vibrating chair, wish I could fucking punch you bitch

I completely agree with you, and it's actually one of the reasons I didn't wanna join a frat. The one I was looking at when I first joined college supposedly made the guys strip down naked, spoon each other, and they'd take pics. They apparently stopped this when one of the old members (who had come up with the idea) had that shit turn up at his 20th wedding anniversary, specifically to shame the fuck out of him

Scanning this thread and I think people in here are pretty based, so I need to tell you all. We have to stop /pol/

They're literally nazis, right wingers and 'libertarians', and they constantly invade our boards against the rules.
Everybody on /pol/ needs to be perma banned, and we can only make this happen if you all show your support now!

Reply to this post to show that the pol nazis need to be banned, FUCK pol and FUCK the alt right!

Unions caused thencar companies to fold or leave detroit. The current state of the city is a direct result of Unions and their greed

software dev is extremely stressful, manual labour is actually fairly relaxing because you can shut off your brain

>fucking retard learn basic english before sentencing people in your idiocy
This opening line made me laugh out loud at how unaware it is. What a loser!

watch out everyone we got an internet tough guy in here

Anybody in the business side of the gaming industry care to give their two cents on the work load? I’m super curious.

racism is against global rule 3, fuck off

>Do not conflate collective bargaining with unions. They are two separate things

Dude lay off google you are miss reading shit.

The whole point of a union is to form a bargaining committee to negotiate a contract that is to improve standards for its membership

T. Vice local chairman and second head of bargaining committee representing 200 employees

Attached: Mrboom.jpg (1015x676, 63K)

lmao looks like I struck a nerve poor wage cuck

my grandpa OWNED the company, he worked like that because he was proud of labor unlike you whimpy little shits, cry more maybe mommy will kiss your ass and make it all better with her own money ;333

Reddit Spacing

You have to go back.

Their shit bikes are making them unable to compete.
Who in their right mind would by a Harley when Yamaha, Honda and every other bike maker has better selection

weird how plumbing, steam fitting, electricians, carpenters are all just find. Just detroit. Im sure theres nothing historical about that cities fiancial leadership that would cause a crash. its unions. very well informed.

OH REALLY user.
Hmmmm.

shame we cant do it like in the old days where union members would just intimidate scabs

Think about when the last time was you remember major delays for a game. Cracking down on those has meant cracking the whip on game devs. It's a pretty shitty environment.

>Anybody in the business side of the gaming industry care to give their two cents on the work load?

They probably wouldnt know since they'd be analysits, accountants or CEO's. They dont do the work they handle the financial aspect of it.

They wouldn't be if they were managed properly instead of non-stop crunch.

>T. Vice local chairman and second head of bargaining committee representing 200 employees

Nice. How'd you get into that kind of position. I swear to god one day ill unionize healthcare lab workers. The problem is any talk and bam you're blacklsited

maybe when they did the workers were lazy fucks that did nothing and just collected paychecks

but hey only the employer is evil right? workers are always perfect

Yeah.

I hope this is pasta otherwise you're sort of a giant dork

that's not how business works, there's no such thing as 'do we need', it's "are we making as much money as we could be? No? Then work harder"

really makes you think; doesn't it?

I appreciate you user

Attached: D4BqKwlW0AAqjPB.jpg large.jpg (984x988, 107K)

>exploitation
Crunch is not exploitation. Fucking millennials, I swear to god. At the end of every fiscal year, there's a 3 week period where I'm lucky if I even see my wife. I am very fairly compensated for that crunch time in my salary and benefits. I'm a senior regional marketing vice president. It's part of the job and I knew upfront before the promotion.

Also, the last 2 or 4 days of every month (depends if it falls on a weekend), my wife works past 10pm each night. She's a marketing admin manager.

Only wageslaves that get paid by the hour can't understand why work time fluctuations are perfectly normal. Companies are not going to hire extra people for the 2 weeks a year that they get slammed. Business doesn't work like that. Not as if they could hire a temp with the training to do the jobs, anyway.

Attached: 1544956047289.png (772x617, 659K)

t. bootlicker for the corporate class

>democratic frontrunner

This isn't the USSR, pal

If they dont like it they can find another job.
Fuck you,you communist piece of shit. We will come for you one day when we purge libs

Yeah user. The majority of all people in the country are lazy. Its the minority ownership class that suffers from the lazy majority, they might not even break half a million this year! You got it.

Friendly reminder that all anti-union posters are actual jews

TRANNY DEVS UNITE

I mean, it's not as if Detroit never diversified its industry or American automakers were retarded and rigid by making tons of gas guzzling boatmobiles during an oil crisis and high inflation, compared to Japanese and German cars. Nah, it was all unions.
Based.

Nothing wrong with scabs. If someone else is willing to do the job, why the fuck not? Sounds like a hole in the union's plan. Moral or not, a man needs to feed his kids.

>get told
>no arguments
>N-no u!

OH NO NO NO HAHAHA

wrong

He's not the democratic frontrunner. Frontrunner is always determined by money. Bernie Sanders WAS the democratic frontrunner before biden announced but his corporate money vastly overshadowed bernie. He's the frontrunner but honestly his campaign looks to be the start of tanking. THers not much to market this guy on besides electability and if he doesnt win in certain districts during primaries his credibility is over.

Workers are the employers of companies

>I'm not for the unions but I enjoy weekends and 8 hour days

you think talking about how manly you are is an argument though, so why bother?

>nah i would benefit in a large libertarian society you see
>it'll be totally okay for workers to get paid pennies to serve their rich corporate overlords
>and if you don't agree you're a COMMIE
>yeah heh that'll show the libTARDs
I wonder what it's like to have an IQ lower than room temperature.

>workers lives improve
>"hurts workers"
so this is what life is like as a bootlicker who goes online and defends multi billion dollar corporations for free. Right wing propaganda has managed to turn people against the workforce, quite impressive, frankly I'm in awe

>Yeah that's why the ones in America are restrained
Unions are what killed the American auto industry. The lowest, dumbest assembly line worker was making $50/hr. That's not sustainable.

How about the teachers unions who keep demanding pay raises while only 50% of their students graduate?

Fuck unions.

lmao mad

then become an owner ;^)

Honestly, we were better off when we lived in huts and just ate berries and had sex all day.
I don't think humans are psychologically compatible with the work structure that's taken root.

Attached: 1552781004572.png (1152x628, 72K)

Marketing user I got a question. I’m getting a PR degree and I wanna work in gaming right, but too be honest I wouldn’t really know what I would be doing. Could you give some insight.

Attached: 8B466C4C-63C7-46BD-A381-6834F4A4EF20.png (574x430, 204K)

Joe Biden actually supported segregation.
“I think the concept of busing … that we are going to integrate people so that they all have the same access and they learn to grow up with one another and all the rest, is a rejection of the whole movement of black pride,” said Biden. Desegregation, he argued, was “a rejection of the entire black awareness concept, where black is beautiful, black culture should be studied; and the cultural awareness of the importance of their own identity, their own individuality.”

Given how poorly made most games are, I kinda doubt that the developers are saints. I bet they're either lazy or flat out incompetent which results in all the extra work piling up and leads to the infamous crunch in the vidya industry.

>unions are what killed the American auto industry

Actually it was shitter cars than what Japan and Europe produced.

This is literally what unions are

Obviously he isn't the frontrunner, that Pedo Biden. Is buttgag and Yang "lil'' Wang stil in the race? What about the Jussie bro racebaiters?

I'll admit i've not followed in a while

>this
If these pussies worked an industrial shutdown I doubt they would be bitching as much

Maybe someday they'll relax the restrictions on the presidential debates and let independents properly argue instead of just the left and right :^)
too bad the last time they did the person in question needled so many sore points the left and right refused to talk about that they changed the requirements for a party to have a debate seat to more or less permanently prevent them from ever showing up again

Why notstart your own company and let the market decide? If I was a boss id exploit the fuck out of people too

Biden also wrote the Patriot Act and the bills for mass incarceration.

>buttgag
Imagine wanting to be the president with a name like Buttigieg. Have they learned nothing from Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney?

>Video Game Creators Are Burned Out
... from the stress and anxiety of knowing how easily replaceable they are and how 'job security' is official name of their corporate cocktail during holiday events.

>Unions are what killed the American auto industry.
No it wasn't

>The competent carry the deadweight of the incompetent
Basically how society works anyways

>carmack says that game development is literally harder than rocket science
>the one man uniquely qualified to make this statement
>"its not harder than doing excel work"
holy bootlicks, these retards don't even realize that they have become the commies, user you are the commies

>warren
you mean biden, right? There are enough brainwashed soccer moms that will vote for Biden because "he's so cool and friends with obama!"

I fucking hate joe biden but the frontrunner is always the person raising the most money and getting the most media attention. The only hope is that his policies and past statements come to light and he tanks. His polls are already dropping with warren gaining support.

Im voting bernie but this is how shit goes.

who can get away with butt jokes without being called childish though? the GOP?

Wouldn't that be amazing? Fuck please make it happen. Fuck these retards. People have always been able to make garage games and shitty software companies have always been around since the fucking 80s at least

This shit isn't even remotely about vidya anymore

>Unions are what killed the American auto industry
Keep peddling this lie, bootlicker.

>/pol/ thread on Yea Forums

janny tranny

Honor is glorious you massive faggot.

He's still going to win the Dem nomination though. The Democrat primaries are rigged to begin with, but even pretending they aren't, Biden was Obama's vice president which brings in voters who value experience and niggs who want to continue Obama's legacy, whilst Bernie is a crazy, senile socialist, and his policy ideas are so awful he can't even survive a debate with someone as terrible Hilary Clinton.

There are plenty of leftists on /pol/ though.

IIRC he said that making a graphics engine is harder than rocket science, which is believable, but most games don't use their own engines.

It's bad because you're basically forced into crunch because designers can't fucking make up their mind on game mechanics or design, and management never allots enough time for pre-production.
Plus you're working with constraints that other types of engineers dont need to work with to the same extent, pushing hardware to its upper limit but never being able to get more than a system's worth.

Part of the reason those cars were shittier is because of unions. The prices were sky high because you had to pay retards $50/hr to make them. The cars would have been fine at competitive prices.

Considering salary and work conditions - bottom end of IT industry.

> bar bar bar bar
Sorry, can anyone translate?

>Part of the reason those cars were shittier is because of unions.
Do you have a single source to back that up or are you gonna keep talking out your ass

I think it's too early to tell. Sanders riled up both the young crowd and the rust belters who feel abandoned by this country. Biden is very milquetoast and if the dems are looking to win against Trump, I'm not sure if he can. Especially with all those videos of him getting handsy.

t. Neet

Can le Bern weedman not get cucked out of the election this time?

Holy shit, no they weren't. They continued to release them during stagflation where the inflation rates were astronomical and the price of oil was insane. So the cost of a gas guzzling Dodge boatmobile was far too high in comparison to a Honda compact.

If it kills all trannies, liberals and whatever trash alongside the western video game industry, then so be it.

Lol your grandpa was a cuck
Bet his boss had prima noctis rights too

you think a game developer is the sort of person who could intimidate anyone other than a pre-teen girl?

>mean, it's not as if Detroit never diversified its industry or American automakers were retarded and rigid by making tons of gas guzzling boatmobiles during an oil crisis and high inflation, compared to Japanese and German cars. Nah, it was all unions.

user, American car companies STILL made and sold those cars after the plants all closed in Detroit, the production just shifted overseas

Marketing is a joke profession

Going for the gamer vote I see smart man.

>So the cost of a gas guzzling Dodge boatmobile was far too high in comparison to a Honda compact.
That's what I said. And that cost could have been a lot lower if they didn't have to pay out the ass for even the lowest employee.

Video game union - even worse games from the West.

Code harder and code faster, user

Western video game devs are dying, we have to go to eastern europe/Scandinavia/Japan for good games nowadays.

>i come from a country where we had unions and it got really bad
Well, without collective bargaining you get shit like Bangladesh where employees work 20 hours a day and are locked inside decrepit warehouses that burn down and kill everyone inside, or Saudi-Arabia that scams migrants into entering the country and then takes their passports and locks them inside metal containers in the desert where it's 40 celsius and the water tanks are filled with seawater.

Indie game PR. A tip: As a games journalist myself, please send my interview questions to your client ASAP, or I won't publish their review.

And look where that lead American automobiles. I rarely see any on the road other than F-150s or Rams and they all had to be bailed out in 08.
>That's what I said
No it isn't. The price of gas is what made American consumers turn to Japanese/German cars.

A Union would be amazing for the industry. Games are frequently rushed and devs are placed under so much pressure to release something that's quality or to lose their job over one project.

As a game tester a few years back, I saw how shitty it was for everyone involved in the process except for the very higher ups and even then it would get shitty for them. It's a stressful field with little security and desperately needs change. It'd most likely lead to better games in the long run.

>joke profession
>6 figures
Feel free to laugh at my job all you want. Please, go ahead. I welcome it.

>without collective bargaining you get shit like Bangladesh where employees work 20 hours a day and are locked inside decrepit warehouses that burn down and kill everyone inside
Stop this meme, people in those countries are poor/have shit work conditions because they have low productivity. The alternative to working those shit jobs would be even shittier jobs or not working at all.

>whilst Bernie is a crazy, senile socialist, and his policy ideas are so awful

Elaborate. Be specific.

I love Johnny C but he got his start back when games were easy to just open up and look at. These days programming is way more complex so most indie devs have to rely on pre-done 3D engines to meet the modern 'standard' of graphics and polish.

seconding

The skills required to make a game are fairly sought after in the general software development industry. It's not like they went to school for programming for 10 years and then whoops there's no jobs in game dev. They willingly put themselves in this shitty position to live out their dream job, same with artists in the industry.
Also keep in mind that the only companies fucking over their workers are big shots like EA and Ubisoft. Unionizing will only hurt the independent / AA devs.
Oh wait, it isn't programmers who are complaining about this shit, it's community managers and PR guys.

Attached: 1559947763267.png (671x603, 168K)

>We deserve to have a fair share of the output of your work
Imagine being so entitled that you believe you deserve to benefit off of the hard work of others while you do fuck all, or work some cozy job that pays shit.

Allegations didn't stop Trump, and the thing about Bernie is in appealing to younger voters he has to join the race to the left that other dems are joining in on. Biden might alienate radicals who believe Trump is the second coming of Hitler, but he's a breath of fresh air to moderate dems tired of idpol and wealth reform being the cudgel of the party.

Westerners are spoiled shits. Unions served a purpose back in the early 20th century when it was hard to have your voice heard and raise awareness and get some respect as human beings. Those people fought hard, and a surprising number of them died just to achieve workplace rights.

But those laws are on the books now. They can't be taken away. Every employee is protected from any possible mistreatment as long as they can prove it. Unions have no place in today's society. They're just bullies looking out for their own chairmen. They're middlemen seeking only to make a profit for doing no actual work. Fuck them.

Hardest job in office i ever had. 10-12 hours in work but paid as 8. Deadlines every week and working on weekend for free is normal.

Biden is running, so no. He will be cucked for another zionist shill.

I agree mostly, but the salary fantasy is still a problem everywhere despite changes. And game development is fresh enough that not all the issues have been ironed out by the law.

Allegations may not have stopped Trump, but he ran as a Republican who are easier to win over than Democrats. Just look at poll numbers, Dems don't go to the polls unless they're motivated or old.
As for moderates, I don't know if it's enough. My grandmother is a moderate democrat and felt burned from voting for Obama and seeing little benefit. Idpol is a cancer, but income inequality is the real thing that affects most Americans. If they can harness that energy, they can win, but I don't see Biden doing that. He's in bed with credit card companies, AIPAC, and comcast.
Absolutely incorrect. Union membership and increasing wages are correlated. Union membership has dropped like a rock since the 60s and unsurprisingly wages have stagnated since the 70s. On top of generational wealth stagnating.

>A Union would be amazing for the industry.

How would I, a game consumer, benefit by game developers being able to unionize and work less on crunch times? All I see would be Western games failing to deliver their expectations on time.

>it isn't programmers who are complaining about this shit, it's community managers and PR guys

Guess which group got downsized the most this year.

Attached: 1446457868175.gif (540x400, 898K)

>thinking trannies will know how to run a union properly

>Unions served a purpose back in the early 20th century when it was hard to have your voice heard and raise awareness and get some respect as human beings. Those people fought hard, and a surprising number of them died just to achieve workplace rights.
>But those laws are on the books now. They can't be taken away.

God shut up. You have no idea the direction politics have gone in the past 30 years. Shit gets reversed. What do you think Right to Work is?

Funny, you sound like a wagecuck yourself. And just as assblasted about your poor life choices.

>They deserve it!
>They wanted to work and make games! They deserve it!

What made you this way?

>wages have stagnated since the 70s
This is a meme, actual expenditure per employee has continued to rise. This is just what you get for voting for Obama and getting "benefits" instead of wage increases. Employers don't care where the money they spend on an employee is going, if it's directly into their wage or into other crap.

>This is a meme

No its not. Its a fact. Just do the tiniest bit of research.

I've worked in manual labor all my life.
During the job market crash I decided to try to learn code and get into IT to get into a more stable career.
I miss my old job every waking day.

Pocahontas? Trump would eat her alive (not literally, he's got better taste)

No, it's a meme and I've explained why. Employers continue steadily spending more on workers, it just doesn't go directly into wages.

Is there ever going to be a decent solution for this?

Less stress, less mistakes, and more creativity. Over working employees and constantly hovering unemployment over their head while they have families does not produce good games.

During crunch time, I saw way more mistakes and pissy developers because of how stressed the work made them.

John Carmack pushing himself is very different than the coding equivalent of a sweatshop where the specs and schedule were set by marketing and biz people, who know jack shit about what you're doing or how hard it is to do it , or what the likely schedule is.

>No, it's a meme and I've explained why.
But user it absolutely is a meme

Have sex.

>Fucking millennials, I swear to god. I am very fairly compensated for that crunch time in my salary and benefits.

>I'm a senior regional marketing vice president

Attached: 1536138589815.jpg (767x431, 41K)

kys dumb cunt, unions are anti-consumer mafias

If you are bad at CS you end up in vydia companies.

This. Same reason poorfags seethe over "pay to win" lmao

shoepolish breath smelling fuckass

I'm looking into a marketing degree myself, it's this or finance, how fucked in your opinion is the job market?

Attached: 1559150806174.jpg (550x388, 48K)

Except employees productivity has raised significantly and the wages havent followed. Spending more on your workers doesnt account for inflation or productivity increases. I'm genuinely curious where you get your numbers. Mine come from the Economic Policy Institute, the premier non-profit economic think tank.

Attached: wages.png (636x382, 18K)

If you're bad at CS you can still make more money and have better benefits with other coding jobs outside the vidya industry.

based porky dabbing on trannies and communist incels that delusionally dream of soviet russia coming back

>This is a meme, actual expenditure per employee has continued to rise.
t. corporate cum guzzler
Productivity has risen 77% between the 70s and now, while pay has only increased 13%. Essentially companies are sitting on huge sums of cash and utilizing "benefit payments" as a scapegoat to not pay their workers better pay.

Just go to law school

>trusting corperations to not fuck their employees in the ass

>Yea Forums became unironic corporate dicksuckers to own the "commies"
what a shock

I'm just laughing at this point.

>He didn't get a PhD in math and make $300K starting
Honestly why are you brainlets even allowed to breed?

Anything to crash the western games industry

these commies are trannies, faggots and sjws. i feel no pity for them and the video game industry needs to die.

>sucking corporate dick to crash the western gaming industry
Based!

thanks bro

based indeed

>everyone who disagrees with me is a tranny or a faggot
Interesting to call them faggots, while you suck corporate dick and brown-nose.

Fucking kek. God these pro-corporate /pol/tards are the gift that keeps on giving.

Because it isn't going into salary REEEEEEE can't you read?

cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1246.pdf

Attached: fredgraph.png (600x418, 49K)

most communists i ever are either fat incels or some mutilated freak.

and the fact you got offense to the tranny part of my comments proves me right.

>london

Attached: D8a0N4UU0AEMNZJ.jpg (1200x796, 95K)

shit pay too, literally just exists by exploiting "passion".

then people who aren't idiots realize better pay elsewhere and you can either make your own game or just enjoy games without working in the industry.

this takes place in lots of creative fields too btw, architecture, animation, illustration, etc.

Ebin :DDDDD

>unions are communist
How did this board end up more illiterate than /pol/?

Unions are not communist, they are very capitalist

Hell, it's even call "collective BARGAINING". Sounds very free market if you ask me

Im not opposed to unions; I understand circular accountability and its need in protecting the public.

Entertainment unions is one of the things I don't care about because the industry is so small and has no effect on the public. Beyond that, most of the people going into the game dev are people who I want to suffer.

FUCK WESTERN GAME DEVS AND FUCK MEDIA

>"It isn't hard physical labor so it can't be stressful"

Attached: this guy is a fucking idiot.png (499x338, 36K)

Common sense. Unions aren't about preserving your dream job but preserving your income with the skills you have. If you have the skills to pivot into another field (or basically the same field with a different title for programmers) then a union will do nothing for you especially if the alternative pays much better.
Programmers aren't ditch diggers who's only skill is ditch digging, they can go somewhere else if they're not happy.

easy on the estradiol, comrade

>the video game industry is so small and has no effect on the public

Attached: 1537430794993.jpg (500x500, 98K)

>unskiIIed Iabour
>in 2018+1

Why don't you Iive in Africa, you uneducated primate, IoI.

I literally don't know what that is. Kind of weird how you freaks are obsessed with trannies. Maybe get some mental help.

Well, this is typical marxist bullshit, and I'm choosing my words carefully.

I've worked in this industry, I know how it works. Yes, it makes money, millions. It's great. But you know what REALLY makes money? Selling the fucking games.

But some people want to sit at a desk, fuck around on Reddit and other cancerous communities for most of their time, and eventually get to work, and race against the deadline. I'm not even going to complain about their efficiency, it could be higher, but it's above zero and they do the job after all. Still, the part that makes money isn't sitting there at the desk, it's selling them. You want money? Hire developers and artists, and direct them to make a game.

But no, they'll insist on sitting at their desk. They won't even assemble on their own accord. They'll just apply for a position at a studio, and then let a publisher handle the rest. I mean, they used to do that, we called it "independent development". Now, this entire segment consists of making a pretentious shitty and unfinished "indie" game, then whine until a publisher throws money at you so you can make it exclusive to their platform. "Independent" now means "looking for a leash". So they fucking sell their souls to the devil, they're fully responsible for that, and now they dare giving him a call and say: "well look Satan, I know we're not in the best of terms, I know I gave you everything and you rightfully own it, but could I get a raise?"

You want to make money? Become Satan, or shut the fuck up and keep browsing furry shit on reddit.

Attached: delicious tears.jpg (400x265, 14K)

>I understand why unions are important, they safeguard people
>But why do they need unions for the entertainment industry? Fuck them
I know you're trying to be retarded but this is too dumb even for that

>Programmers aren't ditch diggers who's only skill is ditch digging, they can go somewhere else if they're not happy.

Why have any labor laws at that point? Hell might as well go back to letting companies charge a fee to apply for job interviews.

>cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1246.pdf

I dont get it? This shows a vast separation of profits to employee compensations in the last 19 years without accounting for worker productivity increases over the decades.

Futhermore the entire idea of the "myth of decoupling" is based on the following:

"Of course, netdecoupling could certainly occur for a number of reasons.

For example:In the short run there could be shocks that disturb the long-run equilibrium.
-
Technological changes that are biased against labour as a whole.
-An increase in the profit mark-up (for example if product market competition weakens).
-A fall in the bargaining power of workers compared to firms1.
-Changes in effective labour supply –for example the growth of globalisation, immigration, female participation."

Wow, looks like all the things that would cause decoupling are actually happening in the US.

>whiny zoomers destroying the industry
Actually this.

No, these are just commies being commies. "Give me money despite me not earning it."

Attached: 1559102168237.jpg (480x480, 25K)

most US workers are hourly user. Accounting for salary is essentially nonsense especially since it would cut out overtime productivity work that gets paid nothing

That would weed out a lot of undesirables.

tell me what will go wrong if overworked game devs release a shit game?

overworked inspectors, pilots, and labors (just to name a few) directly cause death in their industry and to the public at large

lmao you retards

>You can learn 3D modeling in a week

Blatant lie.

Thank fuck for you, user.

>overworked inspectors, pilots, and labors (just to name a few) directly cause death in their industry and to the public at large

They shouldn't have unions either. Prove me wrong.

>it's another thread full of NEETs and virgins sharing their shitty, uninformed opinions on matters they have no experience with

Attached: 1544715268749.png (340x359, 183K)

>they want to take our games away
>bernie literally paving the way for more games to be made

well I know who I'm voting for

>Replaceable unit want to feel like he is special
lmao

Welcome to Yea Forums.

Welcome to democracy.

Pilots should have a union just to slow the proliferation of new technology into the industry. Numerous accidents are caused by premature technology and their effect on public psych hurts the industry as a whole.

>Pilots should have a union just to slow the proliferation of new technology into the industry
That's exactly what a luddite communist would say.

But doesn’t them working for triple digit hours with no overtime mean that they have earned it?

>people should pay money in order to apply for jobs at companies who's job is to literally weed out undesirables

And then you wonder why nobody takes you retards seriously.

Attached: 1537420552760.jpg (1024x1009, 56K)

Retard. I'm saying that low skill high intensity "undesirable" work where they can treat you like shit because you can't find anything else worthy of a union. A game dev job is not undesirable in the slightest, and many people choose to work in that field instead of the much higher paying software development career.
It's not a case of these poor programmers doing what they can to survive, they willingly get into game dev with skills applicable to a myriad of higher paying jobs. It's akin to being capable of being a CEO of a company and then choosing to be a manager at McDonald's. They would have no right to complain because they chose this life at that point.

No. You've only earned what the company says you earned.

You two are really exceptional individuals. Learn to spot bait.

forgive me if I don't shed tears for every NYU graduate that enters the game industry with the dream to release "dilation quest"

So why have any labor laws at that point? If you don't like your job you could always just leave.

the companies that want to unionise are shit

Can you not read?

Ok

This is bait.

This is bait.

commies always rush technology instead of spending the resources to test and work out bugs. Its why their air travel is so shit despite being capable of producing comparable hardware.

Well now that’s just crazy, if I work beyond the clock I should be paid beyond the clock

>I am very fairly compensated
>6 figures

yeah and they are not, ya dingus

Can you not answer the question?

If you have no right to complain, because you chose the field you're working in, then why should said field be subject to any labor laws at all?

>commies always rush technology instead of spending the resources to test and work out bugs

So you're saying Boeing is a communist company

Yeah but nobody forces you to do IT in video games, you can just program business software and its even easier.

Also who the fuck is only doing 3 weeks of crunch in the gaming industry?

Thank fuck for you, user.

Why don't the unions just start their own businesses with employee-friendly policies?

Attached: 1540607248403.png (741x568, 62K)

Because there should be a standard across all fields. It wouldn't be fair to deregulate any single field. Either raly to increase the standards across the board legally or move on up and get a better job with the skills they have.

Im more talking about the TU-144 and all the other eastern Jets that needed more time in the oven. Im not saying the West doesn't rush out premature equipment either, but you can see that it is done to a much lesser degree because of unions and other regulatory bodies.

My argument was that unions are part of the system that help regulate and prevent this.

Dumb frogposter

Why should there be a standard? How is deregulation unfair? If you don't like your job you can always just walk away and find another one, or do like suggested.

Because that's hard and would require rebuilding infrastructure that already exists, making it inefficient too

Entitled assholes start whining the moment they're expected to put some effort into their work

>but you can see that it is done to a much lesser degree because of unions and other regulatory bodies.

Aka communism.

people who grew up building the tech what we have now

vs born into it and figuring stuff out

all of those people are getting %

If you work hard on your shift at Wallmart you don't get paid extra

>i make a lot of money, so the people who don't make a lot of money and work even more than me should be fine with it
Unironically kill yourself you disgusting boomernigger.

yes.

As opposed to the entitled assholes who start whining the moment they're expected to pay people fairly for their work and effort.

What if smart cool people avoid the industry because it's shit work and unions will bring them back?

Masterful bait. Very creative too.

i dont care lmao

Attached: 1508730227124.jpg (1270x798, 263K)

you sound like a cuck to me. Try doing that for 6+ months.

Based Bernard

It ain't communism because it ain't centralized, you got the unions, the corps, and the gov in a tango that watch each other

Based porky

>only 3 weeks of crunch
>fairly compensated

So in other words, you have it significantly better than many video game devs.

Don't work for people who won't pay you what you want, then.

>How is deregulation unfair
Deregulation in a single field.
I'm in whole support of If they think they are that valuable then they should be able to start a new company just fine.
Regulation across the board is great as it provides a standard living. You should not be granted special permissions and rights just because you chose to work a shittier job though.

I guarantee you've never done anything resembling real work in your life

It's communism, the free market should decide how employees are compensated. We don't need unions or regulations in the gaming or airline industry.

People aren’t payed based on merit anymore so companies just get filled with shitters and all the good employees get pissed and leave. Then the crap devs make a union so their useless asses can’t get fired.

I love when people who've never been employed on anything but minimum wage tell me about unions.

Makes me glad I make $80 an hour...thanks to a union.

why are people so satisfied with being absolute cucks like this

>i luv muh 80-hour workweeks
>muh job
>dies in their 40s in a mcmansion at best

What does "free market" even mean at this point?

...

based

Attached: 1549628888769.jpg (324x366, 14K)

>Vidya game producers complaining about poor working conditions
Those poor nerds in their air conditioned office spaces... what will will do about this, Yea Forumsros?

Attached: 1558669998639.gif (500x209, 1.8M)

Stop projecting and get a job you fucking bum.

>anymore

There's no such thing, which is why unions exist.

>dies in a mcmansion

that's why

Read an actual book on economics for once in your life, lelbert.

fukken saved

Again, I guarantee you've never done anything resembling actual work in your entire life

>I'm in whole support of
>If they think they are that valuable then they should be able to start a new company just fine.

Then you agree we should abolish all labor regulations. You should not be granted special permissions and rights just because you chose to work any shit job.

>this just seems like whiny zoomers destroying the industry
Any job will destroy you over a long period of time, if it invovles constant rushing, cuts often into your sleep time and continuously has the sword hanging over your head.

thats so sad though

ncorrect usage of projection. you know
saying projection isn't just an uno reverse card nigga.

what do you do for a living?

>it is impossible to have poor working conditions in an office environment
simply false, "poor working conditions" means more than just the temperature. It also has to do with long hours, low pay, poor job security, poor benefits, etc.

Yeah it's really honorable killing yourself after being forced to work 80 hour work weeks and still being outclassed by foreign companies

>Vidya game producers complaining about poor working conditions
Those poor nerds in their air conditioned office spaces... what will will do about this, Yea Forumsros?

Keep projecting then. I don't own a bum like you anything.

Some people just like working

Coal mining actually isn't that bad of a job these days if you live in a first world country and it's pretty funny to me to see people use it as the worst possible job to do.

This thread is a reminder that literally everybody with a right wing mentality is fucked in the head and lack the ability to think for themselves.

>the virgin Western producer
-pumps out new content on a monthly basis, no time to rest
-has to resort to microtransactions, since all the budget was blown on advertisements
-has to cater to SJWs to get every last cent/use as a flame wall

>the chad Japanese producer
-takes their time crafting their work like a fine sake
-makes games catered toward "fun"
-always lets their employees take breaks and vacations because a relaxing workplace is a happy workplace

Attached: 1488750695181.jpg (500x297, 13K)

Keep being a worthless NEET complaining about commies until you end up with no benefits and die I guess

Attached: KYS_tranny~3.png (670x1024, 948K)

I agree with that, user.

>There's no such thing
There's no such thing as an employer who will pay you what you want to be paid. That's your argument? You're probably right, because you think you should be paid way more than you're actually worth. There are employers who will pay you what you're worth.
>which is why unions exist.
And unions shouldn't exist. You'd have to be a retard to think unions help anyone. Or, well, they do help someone. They help worthless people to get paid more than they deserve. You can ignore them, which should be the right thing to do, but then they'll get violent and the government, who has a monopoly on force, will likely side with them for money.

Again white privileged individuals trying to keep a black man down. I've worked hard my entire life and you little bitches keep belittling me.

You're just dumb honestly. I'm saying that people who take the 10k a year ditch digging job vs the 100k a year ditch digging job should not be granted any special regulations because of their bad decisions. Their should be a set high standard across all fields, but unionizing in an industry where the skills required are parallel to the skills required in a much more in demand, and higher paying industry is silly.
Stop twisting my words you faggot. I'm saying my point clear as day and for some goddamn reason you can't get it.

>It also has to do with long hours, low pay, poor job security, poor benefits, etc.
Except they're working in an office space... they're only complain is working long hours. You're such a bougie it hurts

Any job will destroy you if you can't get a decent amount of sleep, face constant stress and the neverending push to perform even more or else you get the boot. AC is irrelevant.

I work for the US government. But more directly than most of the people in this thread who also work for the US government but are in denial because "socialism!"

Who don't realize there isn't a single minute of their life that isn't affected positively by the socialist reforms enacted in this country.

The country needs more socialist reform, not less.

>Japan Salarymen
>-always lets their employees take breaks and vacations because a relaxing workplace is a happy workplace

oh lol

Attached: 1536694241092.gif (340x340, 18K)

>japan
>always lets their employees take breaks and vacations because a relaxing workplace is a happy workplace
Now this is bait.

fun fact: no one likes to work

This thread is a reminder that literally everybody with a left wing mentality is fucked in the head and lack the ability to think for themselves.

Have sex.

you do realize that the vast majority of furries who have really expensive fursuits are full-on "fuck you got mine" libertarian/right-wing people right

listening to marble bust youtubers puts you right in their camp, which includes rich trannies.

Not true. I get super bored without something to do. I have real trouble taking more than a week off from work.

You agree we shouldn't have any labor laws?
>There are employers who will pay you what you're worth.
Labour is a commodity. Workers sell it for as high as possible, capitalists buy as low as possible. Theres more workers than jobs, however, so theres downward pressure on wages. This means that wages systematically get suppressed.

This means that a workers wage is negotiated down towards in our current society with higher unemployment and less labour protection laws. This means that the price of labour gets driven down until near its "cost", the basics of living for a human.

Wages are low, but companies still have to sell. So they compete to drive down prices. They cuts corners, decrease salaries, do unethical things, make the cheapest products they can to make more profits.

This means that all the choice the avarage consumer has is the cheapest option available. Fancy "organic made by hipsters in sandels" food or clothes is too expensive for workers to afford, their wages are too low.

You have the choice to either buy the cheapest or starve. You dont have money to "vote" for more expensive non-destructive products, for food that isnt sprayed with poison, for clothes that didnt force children to work. Only the wealthy can vote with their wallet, and this is exactly what the rich do all the time, such as during the election, or when they hire death squads to assassinate union leaders in south america.

Fun fact: all top 1 percent income growth after 2000 came from capital, not labor.

peoplespolicyproject.org/2017/08/09/massive-rise-of-top-incomes-is-mostly-driven-by-capital/

How? I want you to elaborate and cite.

Fun fact: you're wrong , nigger. Actually being productive gives you a feeling of satisfaction, of course some spoiled little bitch boy like yourself wouldn't understand what its like to work a job you like

I'm sorry you can't comprehend that developers these days lack ambition, and like the entire FUCKING LEFT there days, think they're just "entitled" to things, except in this case, they willingly let others get it from them and then ask for it, and don't even fucking realize it.

Acquire sexual activities, nazi

>proving his point
Like pottery

hahahahahahaha, dude, in that aspect, the west cares a little more about their worker, asian jobs aren't that good for humans

Attached: 1560662314650.jpg (1411x1529, 263K)

can you please rewrite this? I have no idea what your point is

> is fucked in the head
>lacks the ability to think for itself
I rest my case

Nice bait.

Dilate.