Civil War

>siding with the faction lead by a literal thalmor asset
I can understand your first game maybe but not after
yeah they really dropped the ball on making the stormcloak jarls likable, most were just outright assholes. even in falkreath I'd pick the spoiled corrupt cunt over his paranoid senile uncle or whatever the hell he was
it's pretty clear they planned to let you destroy the thieves guild like the dark brotherhood but never wound up doing it.
the silver bloods in markarth make me rage more though, the entire conspiracy quest honestly.

This, they abandoned the man-god that made them. They're not the Empire of Tiber Septim, they're Thalmor Occupation Government (TOG). >the silver bloods in markarth make me rage more though, the entire conspiracy quest honestly
I never understood what that whole snafu was about.

It's clear which one is the right one.

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>this thread again for the xth time
None y'all ever getting a resolution to the civil war, and if you do it'll be dissatisfying for everyone. deal wit it.

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>literal thalmor asset
They only consider him this because the war keeps Skyrim divided. They don't give a shit about the war's actual outcome; they just want the warrior province distracted. The Nords are capable of holding against the Dominion, just as the Redgiards did.

Well at least most of the Silver-Bloods die during that quest line.
>help Madanach escape
>just before they leave kill everyone
>walk out and get greeted by balding faggot Silver-Blood
>get his payment ring and run him through, then run away from Markarth
Always worth it.

I'm an Imperial who sides with the Nords.

(((Nepos the Nose)))
What did Todd mean by this?

I'm a Nord who sides with Imperials.

>not only bends over for elf cock, but even tries to murder other who don't
All fucking Imperial cucks need to fucking hang with every fucking knife ear that exists in Tamriel
VICTORY OR SOVNGARDE

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The best course of action is to help the Stormcloaks end the war as swiftly as possible, as the Thalmor were counting on a lengthy war of attrition to weaken both sides, then to either let Ulfric rule if he curbs his racist nonsense or just usurp him and rule yourself to unite Skyrim.

The most important aspect is to kick the Empire and Thalmor out of Skyrim and expose their relationship. The Thalmor know they need the Empire, there's no way they're launching an invasion of Skyrim on their own without moving freely through Imperial lands.

basically the Silver Bloods are incredibly rich Nords who own most of the Reach and the mines in Markarth which not only make a ton of money but act as a prison. They've coopted the guards and the forswarn so that they can silence any and all opposition or those who could reveal their plans. They're also pro-Stormcloak and it turns out the girl who was about to die when the quest starts was an agent of tullius who was trying to find a way to cuck them out of the mines in markarth.
the whole point of the quest is you uncover all of this yet despite potentially uncovering the fucking diary the one silver blood dude had admitting to it all you can't show that to the jarl and BTFO those cunts, instead you just exit the mines and get a fucking ring from the dude who had locked you in the mines originally.
it makes absolutely zero sense unless you're pro-stormcloak
I always steal the diary but also confront the dude and get his wife killed, then turn off the dude and his brothers essential status after the quest and slaughter them

It's pretty bold, he must have taken a page out of Sam Raimi's book.

Empire was right.
Yeah it's a mer scum, but still.
>iwannu be a king cuz me nord
shit was stupid

>They only consider him this because the war keeps Skyrim divided.
no he literally cooperated with the thalmor as an asset until the Markarth Incident where he basically realized he got used like a condom
he also believes that he gave up intel that caused the imperial city to fall

>there is a fucking stormcloak courier in the northwatch hold
I will never understand why anyone side with them

There's a Stormcloak Courier in Northwatch Hold? That's the first I've heard of it.

>the East Empire Company had ships and offices in Windhelm
Wtf?

>People will argue that Tullius publicly shaking hands with the Thalmor while secretly stockpiling resources and plotting to move against them once Skyrim is unified makes him a Thalmor cuck
>But insist that Ulfric literally being manipulated by the Thalmor into sparking the revolution they desired to fracture the Empire doesn't make him the same

I was playing yesterday and he was in the yard with the thalmor and he tried to run away.

>not realising both sides are being tricked into fighting each other, instead of fighting the real enemy

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>T-t-t-they were going to betray them in the e-end, trust me g-guys...

Fuck off, knife-ear sympathizer.

The last thing the Thalmor wanted was for Ulfric to win quickly.

Yes that's literally what the empire is trying to do but the thalmor puppet kingis trying to stop them.

You sure that wasn't just one of those random encounters? Those couriers assholes will literally run through a camp and get shot by arrows without fighting back, they are pretty stupid.

>Empire literally brings the Thalmor to Skyrim, without them Thalmor would literally not have been able to establish any kind of foothold with which to stage an invasion

Yes, the "real" enemy being both the Empire and Thalmor, because they're in cahoots ya dingus.

He was there walking around them.

The Empire is right. The whole religious conflict falls apart when you realize basically no Nords, regardless of their side, worship the Nordic gods other than sometimes Kyne or Shor. Ulfric wants to reinstate worship of Talos, but Talos is the patron and protector god of the Empire. Skyrim, and the empire as a whole, are tired. There is no reason for a civil war like this to fuck everything up.
>inb4 muh dunmer
The ones in the Grey Quarter have mostly been there since the Red Year two centuries before TESV. Literally most of them are the same individuals. They've lived there longer than any human in the city. Otherwise, there are very few Dunmer refugees. Morrowind has mostly recovered. Balmora was being rebuilt the month after Red Mountain erupted. So muh I don't like knife ears doesn't cut it here.

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Who's gonna pay me the most?

this. siding with the stormcloaks feels like you are making every town worse. the stomcloak jarls are just assholes

doesnt the empire claim this is whats happening like all the fucking time

they're "merchants" though
I assume they have offices everywhere they can
it's stated multiple times the Talos shit wasn't enforced until the Markarth incident gave them a pretext to do it
they basically used ulfric to get the desired reason to interfere and had the added benefit of sparking a civil war in the province that just benefits them further, I still think Ulfric is a retard but it's basically the thalmor masterfully manipulating it all until the dragonborn came and ruined it

I wish I knew why Alduin attacked Helgen.

Can an ADHD retard get an unbiased tl;dr on the Empire-Stormcloak conflict? Every time I play Skyrim I just randomly side with one because I mash through dialog.

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>but Talos is the patron and protector god of the Empire
THEN WHY DID THEY SIGN THE WHITE-GOLD CONCORDAT AND WRITE A BOOK CALLED "THE TALOS MISTAKE", O DYSGENIC ONE?

Stormcloaks
>muh knife ears
>muh religion
>muh heritage
Empire
>muh shekels
>muh part of the Empire
>"b-but we totally hate the Thalmor too guize!"

I just hate Ulfric. He caused this war for his own fucking gain. I don't even give him the honor of falling to my axe.

Pretty much, discussing this in an objective way is basically impossible here.

>The thalmor destroyed the empire
>The empire was too weak to resist so they signed a truce
>Ulfric started a civil war because he think he should be king and the truce terms are not good
>The thalmor know this is good for them because as long as there is a war the humans won't be able to stop them

You have to pick a side but the empire part is going to be canon for sure in the next game, the thalmor can't win.

Was it to try to kill (You) before the dragonborn got a chance to get strong enough to stop Alduin?
Granted if he had waited 5 minutes you would have been executed and he would have won but them's the breaks.

Thalmor used the Empire to get into Skyrim and incite a civil war

They want the civil war to last as long as possible to make both sides easier to fuck over

Empire is made of Thalmor cocksuckers who have abandoned their principles and faith

That's about it

The solution is to side with the stormcloaks, end the war as quickly as possible and expose Empire-Thalmor conspiracies and collusion

>Implying Bethesda is going to make any """choice""" in Skyrim canon and not just give a handwave nonanswer to what happened in Skyrim

Stormcloaks
>empire hasn't done shit for us lately while we lost many defending it in the war with thalmor
>betrayed by empire with white gold concordat, empire now basically on its knees to thalmor and letting them attack talos worshippers in skyrim
>time to leave the dying corpse of an empire and renew the nord people and take the fight to the thalmor knife ear scum
>nord pride worldwide
Empire
>peace with thalmor was necessary to give the empire time to rebuild and prep for attacking them again
>talos worship was fine if low key till the stormcloaks and ulfric started stirring shit up and gave the thalmor a reason to be able to enforce the treaty
>stormcloaks are doing the thalmors job for them by weakening the empire which has been great for mankind
>put down the revolt and prep for the impending final battle with the thalmor

i dont understand why there isnt an option to become emperor yourself. it seems like the most logical outcome

It ultimately boils down to whether you believe the empire is going to eventually strike back against the Thalmor, or if they’re just going to continue to let the Thalmor take over Tamriel. If it’s the former you side with the empire, if it’s the latter you side with stormcloaks.

Will the empire eventually make a move? That’s the question. With the game itself it’s hard to know the answer for sure, but I think it points to, yes they will.

The empire is already compromised by the Thalmor, they are one and the same

Defeat them both and allow the Empire to be re-established without knife-ears pulling the strings

doesn't ulfric show up in not-valhalla if you kill him and admit he was wrong?
he's also bizarrely immune to soul trapping so he always shows up

more likely it will be
>empire fighting thalmor
>get some early choice dialogue in start of game to let you choose who won civil war
>all it does is change a few lines of dialogue and maybe some shirts to signal if it's a united empire fighting the thalmor or ulfric decided to team up with the empire to fight the bigger enemy

You know, I think the Winterhold Jarl is okay. He's totally right about the mages being full of shit.

>Will the empire eventually make a move?
Why would they? They can't, that's why they signed the treaty in the first place. They're cucked.

>expose Empire-Thalmor conspiracies and collusion
What conspiracy? Literally everyone know about the concordant.

It will be mentioned one side won and that was a turning point in the human victory over the thalmor.

Their first move was forsaking a massive army in hammerfell and call them "traitors" eventually the thalmor lost in hammerfell.

The empire can't win without skyrim.

I just feel like the Thalmor are smart enough to know the Empire is preparing for an attack against them, and are thus doing everything to subvert them and make this goal impossible. It’s hard for me to think the empire is the key to beating the Thalmor when the Thalmor have so much influence with them

any time i play skyrim i ignore it because it's such a boring questline and non thing.

The concordant wasn't a conspiracy, no one said it was
The Empire is secretly working with the Thalmor in an effort to allow the Thalmor to gain a foothold in Skyrim, but the Thalmor are also planning to fuck the Empire over, unbeknownst to them. They want the war to last as long as possible so both the Empire and Stormcloaks will be easy to defeat. The answer is not to support the Empire that is 100% completely compromised by the Thalmor.

>The Empire is secretly working with the Thalmor in an effort to allow the Thalmor to gain a foothold in Skyrim
And where is this information?

A dragon born leading the empire? Thats to much power

i don't think that will ever be an option in elder scrolls since it would fuck up the timeline too much.
bethesda likes to have every choice a player makes in a game happen in the timeline.

>a player character having any influence in the mortal world after their game
we'll probably be sucked into some bullshit caused by Hermaeus Mora again that leaves us incapacitated

What about tali’s?

And he didn't. The conflict lasted long enough to totally beleaguer the region, and almost all of the Stormcloak leadership besides Ulfric was incompetent and corrupt.

no matter who wins skyrim ends up getting fucked over by elves
>empire works with them already
>stormcloaks won't have the strength to win two back to back wars if the thalmor attack in the near future

>t.knife ear

Yeah, that was fucking bullshit. It's a goddamn joke how like every named NPC in skyrim is essential because Todd was too lazy to script the game to take certain character's deaths into account. But at least in other instances of evil dickheads like Ancano at the College, you can at least kill him after you've gone through the College questline. But with Maven? Oh, I can't kill this smug cunt. Guess I have to do the thieves guild questline first. Okay I've gone through the thieves guild, oh I still can't kill her. Alright let me go through the entire fucking dark brotherhood questline since she's apparently in bed with them as well. Oh, and I still can't kill her. Fantastic.

At least you can kill two of her children, Sibbi and Ingun. There's no fucking dialogue to reflect the fact that she lost her family, but at least it's fucking something.

Name a Stormcloak jarl that takes over an Imperial town and isn't corrupt or literally insane.

If the Empire truly cared about focusing on the true threat of the Thalmor, they'd allow Skyrim to peacefully cede from the empire, then form a military alliance with them and hammerfell as well against the aldmeri dominion.

But they don't. The empire only cares about keeping its grubby mitts on everything it can hold onto, consequences be damned. They'd rather continue sucking elf cock so long as it means they retain control over what's left of the empire, even if this just means being a puppet state.

Why are people pretending the elves want skyrim? Fucking shithole is useless to them and is not even like they can start another war the red guards fucked them good. That's why they will will lose in between the next game.

>but the Thalmor are also planning to fuck the Empire over, unbeknownst to them.

what the fuck?
they were already attacked by the thalmor and had a huge war over it. the empire knows the thalmor is planning to fuck them over. general tullius even says the empire is building up forces because another war is coming

Maybe tullius should focus on that rather than wasting both imperial and nord blood trying to hold onto skyrim.

Unlike every stupid stormcloak he know they need the whole might of the humans to stop them. If only the nords could think.

That's what he was doing until Ulfric cheated in an honor duel to assassinate the king of Skyrim and began an armed insurrection. If he backs down here, other crazed terrorists across the Empire will be emboldened/encouraged by Thalmor agents, destabilizing the entire empire at a critical junction and guaranteeing unopposed Thalmor domination in the long term. Ulfric is jeopardizing all life on Tamriel for his insistence on worshipping Talos - which the Empire was ALREADY LETTING HIM DO BEFORE HIS INSURRECTION

>we need the whole might of mankind
>so let's throw all our manpower at browbeating the stormcloaks, another faction who also hates the thalmor, instead of letting them leave and forming an alliance against the thalmor with them amicably

Vignar and the Gray-Manes in general are okay
but I agree with the point of your statement, the rest are downgrades except the Riften one, who as another user said is basically an ineffectual puppet while Maven just pulls the strings in the background instead of admitting the reality of the situation

Maybe the humans would be more inclined to fight for you if you let them have their autistic religion and way of life, instead of killing them because they don't smooch as much knife-ear ass as you do

>cheated
no he didn't

>from an alliance
Yeah I'm sure they mongoloids are going to join the evil empire after their civil war they are so dumb they probably think they can stop the thalmor alone.

On my first playthrough at 16 I thought the Stormcloaks were right, but when I revisited it at 22 I sided with the Empire

My only problem with Vignar is that he does that "you're not as dumb as you look" flavor dialogue that all NPCs with that voice actor do sometimes.

Even vignar feels like a downgrade, I hate how he always sounds so old and dopey

>Ulfric cheated in an honor duel to assassinate the king of Skyrim
He didn't he just killed him like a coward without warning.

who was right? eh, the empire was literally just bullied into it, but they were paying lip service to their orders and everything was (at least mostly) fine till the stormcloaks fucked it.
i sided with the empire most plays, mostly because virtually every npc on that side isnt as much of a cunt compared to their stormcloak equivalent. stormcloak important people and jarls break down to a circle jerk of "look how stronk/rich/powerful i am bro, step off you aint shit compared to me"

siding stormcloak and doing a "yes man" new vegas ending would have been better. you join them, you realize they're shit, you replace their chaff from the inside. most of the "imperial" jarls just want that cunt ulfric dead, and most of the "stormcloak" ones just want power, of which the dragonborn is far more powerful than that snowback. replace the ones you want with story quests, decide if you're kicking the "ncr" out of skyrim, and you're done

The Empire are the best choice because after they unite humanity by wasting Ulfric Stormfag, all they have to do is gear up for round 2, which Legate Rikke says that they are going to do.

They sure as shit could've if they were allowed to cede peacefully instead of the imperials acting like fucking children and deciding to waste both side's time in a war between man. They care more about >MUH EMPIRE than they do about actually fighting the elves.

>Elves take caution in their land
Why are you lying? The Thalmor have agents in several major cities and tell you to fuck off if you get close to them on the roads

They literally explain in the game they can't fight the elves because there is a civil war. You really don't care you just want to pretend the stormcloaks are right and no your "they can let them have their own country and create an alliance" head canon is irrelevant.

And if they ask if you have something you'd like to admit and you say 'cock' they fuck your mouth. Goddamn knife-ears!

At the risk of sounding hispter, neither are "right". Both factions are motivated by self interest. It's in the Empire's interest to not allow one of its member states to secede, especially not when half of its citizens and rulers don't want to leave. It's also in the Stormcloak's self interest to not continue supporting a desperate and failing Empire that takes taxes and resources but doesn't respect its culture and sovereignty.

>instead of the imperials acting like fucking children and deciding to waste both side's time in a war between man
What part of ARMED INSURRECTION don't you get? Ulfric struck at the Empire first.

Are there even any good arguments for supporting the stormcloaks?

lol it isn't the all of the empires manpower. it is one fucking legion led by tullius that would have ended the civil war by beheading ulfric at the beginning if not for alduin.

dumb inbred nord fell into an ambush like the hillbilly he is and like a coward stayed in his castle for the entire duration of the war afterwards.

if you hate elves in general its a better choice i guess

Not really but it doesn't matter bethesda will force the imperial win.

Underdogs always win, so when the underdog no-friends in Skyrim take on the Epic Aldmeri Dominion they'll win but the Empire vs Aldmeri might be considered a fair fight so narratively they have a worse shot.

If that were true Morrowind wouldn't be Rightful Lizard Clay right now.

But the thalmor support the Stormcloak rebellion. Also a naval invasion of the summerset isles from Skyrim is literally the dumbest idea anybody has ever had

>Also a naval invasion of the summerset isles from Skyrim is literally the dumbest idea anybody has ever had
They don't want to do that they just want their independence and they probably think the thalmor won't come back.

Redditwind wasn't land of the underdogs. They were the slavers and murderers and subhuman trash that held the whip, it was being underdogs that let the Argonians rape Morrowind into oblivion. The plot itself smashed Morrowind with it's big meaty cock, Kirkbride's OC do not steal left and let the continent be smashed by a meteor and the underdog Argonians regrouped and defeated the hordes of Oblivion while the Dumbmer could not, which lead to their overall victory over the Dark Elves, the worst race in Elder Scrolls.

Skyrim is a province rich in precious metal as well as heartier-than-average fighting age men. These are resources that could make Skyrim a prosperous independent nation, rather than an Imperial puppet state which is certain to happen under the current Queen's rule.

First, the easier. One person writing one book doesn't automatically change the stance of an entire empire. Anyway, they passed the Concordat because they would have lost if they hadn't. It's either needing to rebuild some temples and statues a few years down the line and praying a little quieter for a while or losing everything. Don't be stupid.

There is only a civil war because they autistically refuse to let the nords have their clay, even though they've already allowed every other province besides High Rock leave anyway.

Once High Rock unites again beneath a High King the Altmer will be laid low. Bretons are canonically the strongest race.

The other provinces didn't declare war on the Empire and start slaughtering their soldiers.

Anyone else find it annoying how the game tries to make you feel bad for the dark elves just because a few drunks yell at them in the gray quarter, while completely glossing over the dunmer's long history of being dickheads and slavers?

le 56% face

They just want to show you how stupid the nords are and why you have to side with the emperials.

That's Imperials, descended from Nords and Nibenese slaves to Elf Dick. Bretons were created by a programme of eugenics to be the ubermensch.

WE

Not really. The Nords have a long history of being dickheads to the Dunmer, and while Dres(and sort of Telvanni and Hlaalu, which doesn't exist anymore by TESV) were slavers, your average Dunmer probably wasn't. The Dunmer of the Grey Quarter have been there for like two hundred years, like a lot of them are literally the same people as came over during the Red Year. There's very few recent Dunmer refugees because Morrowind has recovered, for the most part.

>After the Oblivion Crisis, the Mages Guild was dissolved due to strong anti-magic sentiment of having started the Oblivion Crisis.
The empire is all fucked

I mean there's the College of Whispers and the Synod

But is not the same bro

Yes and each of those Thalmor have been slaughtered by my battleaxe.

It's not even WE WUZZING. It's an important part of the lore.

I know, fren. I know.

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Empire would make the most sense if the Dragon born dethroned that dumb cuck boy and made himself king.

Honestly Oblivion is my favorite game just because is in the empire.

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The empire let Thalmor death squads roam Imperial territory and imprison, torture , and kill sovereign citizens at will.
They even gave them a base to work out of.

The empire has lost the moral authority to rule.

Then they should go back rather than bitching about not being treated fairly. It's not like n'wahs were treated well back in Morrowind.

If they did that you'd call them cucks for letting the Nord bail on them.

People who side with the Imperials because they think they'll *eventually* fight back against the thalmor are the equivalent to the retards who think Trump is actually going to fight the jews after he's done sucking their cocks.

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But the screenshot I posted is from Morrowind-
But they're not being treated fairly, and it's been their home for like two centuries. They've lived there for longer than any of the Nords who live there have.

That and more personally, they literally tried to behead you at the beginning of the game. Unless you're roleplaying with an alt start mod (which is totally valid, tbqh), there's zero way to justify aiding the imperials with the vanilla start unless you're a literal cuckold.

I don't think they ever outright say it but it's heavily implied the mershitters are next when they win. It doesn't matter which wins, only that the fighting stops so men can focus on fighting the thalmor again and getting ready for great war 2 electric boogalo.

Great War 2 is literally inevitable. The pause in between was a chance for the Thalmor to not have a Pyrrhic victory.

Only because lifespans differ. They need to go back. Especially if they're bitching about being treated poorly. Don't like it, leave and go back to your native land.

I don't go to morrowind and complain about being called a n'wah fetcher.

>hey some bitch was a bitch even though her comrade was literally like "maybe we should not do this" therefore it's unjustifiable to join the right side
Ok

There is literally no way to talk with this people not even considering the random trump comment.

>"The fiercest of the remaining rebels will continue to harass us, but by and large, the people here desire peace. What I'm not so sure about is the peace we've made with the Thalmor. But we'll keep that between the two of us, alright?"

But Oblivion was so cringe with the introduction of Bugthesda's give-away compass and cheap fast travelling, along with the emptiness in the world. Watered down RPG elements from predecessor, butt ugly faces; small number of factions to join and having "safe" quests where you can do virtually all of them because there is no barring from admission due to affiliation with rival factions...

Why do they need to go back? By that logic, the Nords who don't like the Empire should go back to Atmora. Don't like being treated unfairly? Go back to your native land. Who cares about like the life you're trying to live, amirite?

Keep telling yourself that. All the empire is right now is a thalmor puppet. Enjoy your justicar inquisition gangs and torture dungeons.

Put yourself into the PC's shoes. Why the fuck should I forgive and forget the legion after they tried to kill me? "oh it was just this one legionnaire... they're not all so bad!". Fuck off with that shit, bro. You're a cuckold.

I know, but still.

Its a shame we still have to wait like 5 more years for the next game.

You said yourself that most of those dunmer """refugees""" were alive back before the red year. They can literally remember their homeland themselves. This isn't the same as a people who came over hundreds/thousands of generations ago.

>doesn't know what a Pyrrhic victory is
Fren, I'm literally saying the Thalmor are going to start shit again and only stopped so winning wouldn't cost them more than its worth.

>you're a cuck
I'll put myself into my current PC's shoes. I was crossing into Skyrim from Cyrodiil when I got caught up in an ambush that would end the current conflict in the region. The Empire wants it to be done as soon as possible, and doesn't have time to verify whether or not I'm working with the enemy when the head of the enemy forces has finally been captured. They load me up with the rebels, and ultimately, there's not much I can do. Is it shit? Sure, but ultimately I doubt they'll care about me since they knew basically everyone who was even there besides me. I'm not a target, so it will get sorted out. We get to Helgen, and rando Imperial doesn't give a shit about me and just wants me to die so they can hurry the end of the war. Obviously it's shit, and I'd be upset, but I can't not understand. It's a golden opportunity for the Empire. Clearly, this one legate(?) is the one messing things up, and once they deal with the man of the hour, order would probably resume. But of course Alduin comes and screws it up. I've lived under the Empire, and it was mostly fine. I've seen the other soldiers there not only helping others, but helping me, while the Stormcloaks abandoned everyone to Alduin

One redeeming factor in the Imperials favor is the death penalty for illegally crossing the border.

Tullius for ICE director.

Or because you're capable of considering the long term impacts of your decisions

A few more victories like Hammerfell and the IC and the AD problem will fix itself.
The Altmer are bad at war and they have lost the element of surprise.
They are fucked.

They're not bad at war, the Redguards were just better at war. The Empire is the worst off, and needs the most help it can get if it's to win.

Stormcloaks always reminded me of some redneck rebels fighting a hopeless battle against muh gubermnent
Fucking clowns

"Better" my ass. Totally not the region or exhaustion. Never mind the "cripples"

What's your favorite flavor of boot polish?

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Stormcloacks because they're entitled to their ideals.
They might be stupid, but they're traditional and did things by the book.

Both sides are retarded for attacking Whiterun, though.

Imperials are literally refugees that got in power and kiss elven ass while pretending to have a plan.

Imperials are in the wrong the most, though, because despite working for the good of Skyrim, they wouldn't send messengers to the stormcloacks or attempt to work together in secret

>literally the race with the best history in wars whose biggest loss is to mary sueptim
The war was mainly naval. Both the Alik'r Desert and ocean force both sides to have good navies. Thalmor fucked up.

>The Stormcloaks are good even if they're going to blow themselves up because blood and soil!
The intellect of /pol/

I didn't call them good, retard.
I just said their cause is more just

The Redguards are doing just fucking fine. If after Skyrim the Nords figure out how to use the Voice again with the help of the dragons they'll be just fine.

>playing through markarth questline
>want to help the stormcloaks
>don't want to help those savage forsworn niggers
>but also don't want to side with those silverberg-blood kikes who run Markarth

what do? Currently locked up in Cidhna Mine contemplating my situation.

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Is there a way for something to simultaneously be just and bad? Or good and unjust?
The Nords never used the voice on a society-wide level. The Tongues got retconned into being three people instead of once-in-a-century heroes, but that's about as close as it gets. The Redguards have a better history with war, and had more favorable circumstances. The Nords are actively ruining themselves by shunning magic(even though prior Nords had no problem with it) and starting shit with the only people who might be able to effectively organize, train, and arm them against the Thalmor. Skyrim is tired. Three(maybe four) tired groups together are better than one exhausted one alone.

If you're with the stormcloaks might as well help the snowniggers

The /pol/ answer is to help the Forsworn because muh blood muh soil even if they're literally the most savage group in Tamriel.

But is there any way to fuck over both groups? Ideally something along the lines of helping the Forsworn King and then at the very end just stabbing him in the back too.

I really do wish the civil war questline allowed for some input from you on who to put in charge. Because fuck the silver-bloods, fuck the black-briars, and fuck jannies.

>Because fuck the silver-bloods, fuck the black-briars, and fuck jannies.
Like everyone said in this thread the stormcloak jarls are fucking shitte

>fuck the black-briars
Why? Maven is a political powerhouse who wins regardless of who you support in the war.

Yeah, that's what's so annoying about it. No matter what you do, she wins. Fuck bethesda and their essential NPC bullshit.

So /pol/ likes Native Americans?

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nobody likes mouthwash-drinkers. Nobody.

>The Nords never used the voice on a society-wide level. The Tongues got retconned into being three people instead of once-in-a-century heroes, but that's about as close as it gets.
You are a dumb fucking retard that does not know lore, fuck I hate you so much.
Tongues were as widespread as mages until Jurgen Windcaller created the way of the Cuck.
Then they still existed but not as common, as centuries passed they were less and less common.
Same goes with Redguard swordsingers, there used to be a lot of them and some Ansei, now there are three Ansei that can barely make a shehai.

Maven being great at politics has nothing to do with her being tagged essential in the Creation Kit.
Nah, they're not white. The Forsworn are, though.
Tongues got retconned to just be those three people you use the Elder Scroll to go back to. I know plenty of lore. And the Tongues were never as common as you say they were. They were more common before Jurgen Windcaller, sure, but they were nowhere near as common as mages. Swordsingers are irrelevant here.

>Maven being great at politics has nothing to do with her being tagged essential in the Creation Kit.
Yes it does. The point is she's a cunt and you can't do anything about it.

I imagine Europeans may prefer the Empire because it represents stability at the price of freedom while Americans would prefer the Stormcloaks because giving up your freedom for some safety and lacking self determination is for cucks.

Really? Can you tell me how being tagged essential makes you good at politics? Jarl Balgruuf would like to know.

I'd be more inclined to help the forsworn take over the reach if the game wasn't fucking shit at their portrayal. Instead of being some sort of liberation movement, they're just annoying groups of bandits-in-all-but-name that happen to wear tribal outfits. There's no forsworn settlements. There's no non-hostile forsworn (outside the ones captured in the mine and such), etc. If the game actually showed them as a splinter society living in settlements in the reach, with the ability to meet them and talk to them and such, that'd be one thing. But instead all the game does it have them be another dumb group of bandits who attack everything on sight. I'm given zero reason to empathize with them.

I'm aware of this and agree with it. But the /pol/ answer is to help the Forsworn even if they're worse because blood and soil.

why do you keep making this about being "good at politics". I'm saying it sucks that under no circumstances does the player character have any way whatsoever to antagonize Maven. You're not given that chance no matter your allegiance in the civil war, no matter what you do in the railroaded thieves guild questline, and so on. Even after all these quests are completed, you still cannot give her her comeuppance.

>Tongues got retconned to just be those three people you use the Elder Scroll to go back to. I know plenty of lore. And the Tongues were never as common as you say they were. They were more common before Jurgen Windcaller, sure, but they were nowhere near as common as mages. Swordsingers are irrelevant here.
No, those are the specific three legendary tongues.
Demon Chieftains have not been reconnected, all tongues ever mentioned in lore have not been reconnected. Argneir calls powerful thu'um users Tongues, and Jurgen himself combated fucking seventeen Tongues.
You will not find a single bit of text in Skyrim that states that only these three are tongues, they are specifically legendary tongues that combated Alduin.

You do know you can go into the Creation Kit and make her not essential, right? I'm not sure why you're so autistically upset about Maven being essential, but I mean it's not like you can't change that.

they worship one of their own people who became a god

>And the Tongues were never as common as you say they were
Yes they were, we know that there were AT LEAST seventeen tongues alive simultaneous with Jurgen Windcaller, which makes at least 18 thu'um users at that time...which was actually more since Jurgen and his troops used Thu'um for war actively. This repeats through history, once again with Demon chieftains who use Thu'um and their forces.
Even during Skyrim there are at least 8 living thu'um users.
Every Dragon cultist knows thu'um exceptionally well, every mid to high level draugr can shout and all Dragonpriest shouts so that would place people that could shout back then in the hundreds.

Tiber Septim’d avatar said the Empire was old and busted during the 3rd era. It has to go away so something better can take its place and kick those elves off our continent.

Skyrim is lame

I mean, there are full blown "cities" of Forsworn. The path to open the Red Blades Sanctum is one. We just have to kill our way through because they're legitimately savages who would kill us as soon as look at us.

Because they saw Hammerfall push the thalmor out and realized that the Aldmeri Dominion was more of a paper tiger than they had guessed. They overestimated them at the signing of the treaty. They also have the advantage of a better birth rate than the elves so recovering from the war won't be as hard. They can push them out if they're smart about it.

Do you even realize how Hammerfell pushed out the Aldmeri? When the Empire started treaty talks the sand nigs decided they didn't want to, so the Empire cut them loose so they wouldn't be subjected to the treaty and relieved all the Legionnaires in the area (and those who wanted to go fight) from their oaths so they could go help Hammerfells resistance.