Do you agree with reddit's smash ultimate difficulty tier list?

Captain Falcon, One of the most precise characters where you need pinpoint accuracy to be viable is on average?

Make a tier of bust sizes for:

Peach
Zelda
Samus
Rosalina
Palutena
Wii Fit Trainer
Lucina
Robin

Captain is unga bunga, especially in 3.1

Stomp > knee is braindead

Sorry for barging in, I didn't really play a Mario game since DOS days, but isn't it kinda sad that the titular character is an absolute bottom bitch in his own game?
I mean the chicks he's saving in other games are 4 tiers above him. That's fucked up.

>pinpoint accuracy
>knee sweetspot hit box extends behind him.

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Why is marth harder than the other FE clones? Just get RNG tippers and win

Eh, Mario is easy in the sense that his moveset is really basic. EZ to play as doesn't = EZ to beat people as

>Average
>A lot more is above it than below it
Thanks reddit

Kek falcon is easy as shit what are you talking about. His up air may as well be a sword

also this

I'm surprised he is as high as he is

>Game and Watch
>Hard
I play as him a ton and he's easier than he ever was in previous games, and even then he was Average at worst.

He's extremely straight forward, has useful tools with very good properties and great off stage presence. The only issue he has on a general level is how absurdly light he is, meaning he dies earlier. None of his moves have complex mechanics (Oil Panic is fairly easy to understand once you see it in action and Judge is literally just RNG). Probably the most difficult thing about him is using the new Fair well vs just shitting it out and getting punished for it.

I would say he's Fairly Easy in Ultimate.

>Mr No end lag in fairly hard.

Snake is definitely not on the same level as Ice Climbers and the Belmonts are not easy.

Spacing is a lot harder and often isn't worth the effort compared to how fucking safe and braindead Lucina is.
That's why Lucina has safely been in the top tier since the game's inception while Marth has drifted further and further down.

>bottom

It's ease of use, not competitive tiers.

>Snake
>Hard

Hmm, wonder why so many are picking him up so easily then, duck hunt is more difficult than Snake

I would put him in "Average", I think. You need to be able to instant bair consistently as it is his only aerial that can kill offstage, and it can be hard to deal with opponents camping you since he doesn't have killthrows. G&W has a really easy time dealing %, but killing someone on the stage can be pretty hard if they know about the MU and respect your moves.
I wouldn't even take Judge into consideration for rating the character's difficulty, it might as well not exist.

Snake takes time to master, but in general is really easy
peach/daisy and shiek are fucking faceroll
Ryu and Ken are too basic to even be hard, if you're bad with them you lack an understanding of the fundamentals of the game.
Pokemon trainer requires some tech, but it's not really hard to learn as well.
But what is considered hard anyways? All the Link characters are very basic on the surface but i put em all above 90% of the characters if we're talking about utilizing their kits fully.
Personally i never grasped characters like Olimar or Pacman, but in general all characters are the fucking same difficulty.

No, I don't agree. How can Villager be harder to use than Isabelle when his abilities are just straight up better in every slot?

>Bomb placements and spacing is hard, as is combos
>Movement and combos are again hard
>"I don't know what command normals and negative edge are"
>Switching between Pokemon for the best matchup like in the games can be annoying at times.
>Young Link arrow spam is hard
>Everyone is equal
Sorry, couldn't help but laugh at how ridiculous some of this sounds in hindsight.

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Was there a similar gap between Marth and Lucina in 4?

Pacman is one of the most basic and easy characters to play
His kit allows him to do cray shit if you're creative enough

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>Snake
>Hard

>Kirby
>EZ
>Ness
>Hard

Kirby is V EZ what are you talking about
Good and Easy aren't the same thing dumbass
EVERY time I see someone new play the game, they're almost immediately drawn to Kirby based on how easy she is

Young Link arrow spam isn't hard but it's your fault for playing a meme heavyweight trash character where this particular playstyle is effective against. Young Link has some of the hardest combos and confirms off of bomb/boomerang/arrows in the entire game. He is easily the hardest Link to play in the game. If you're looking to just run away and spam streams of projectiles Tink s an objectively better choice for campers.

>Wolf, Yoshi, and Ness that high up in difficulty

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Lucina started off a lot lower but then slowly clawed her way back up in Smash 4, simply because her balance wasn't worth as much as the tip.
In Ultimate Lucina started off better and Marth has for the most part actually drifted downwards, though that's also partly other characters improving their station.

Young Link arrow spam isn't hard.

You could've just ended it there.

Yo I never played smash in my life, can I enjoy this offline or is it only for turbo autists? ( My switch is hacked so I'm not gonna play online, I'm too lazy to use the DNS trick )

Wolf isn't particularly hard but not easy either
Relies heavily on short hopping and aerials.
>Small Up Tilt hit box
>Exploitable recovery
>Up B is shit
>Side B is only way to effectively recover
>Side B can result in an SD if you're not careful
>Side B needs to be timed / distanced properly to actually land

Where are my duck hunt high IQ gamers at? We finally have a champion in Raito.

>Kirby and K. Rool are easy
I wish these faggots actually tried to have any success with either of them

>snake
>hard

>frame 1 grenades
>nikita ruins recoveries
>Dash attack is stupid safe
>fucking up tilt

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Wolf is like a Melee spacie or Smash 4 Cloud. He's so good at nearly everything he does that his downsides are negligible long-term. It's hard to fuck up playing him because of how he fits literally any playstyle

Smash Online is still brawl tier. Offline play is legitimately the only fun way to play this game with other players because online is ridden with projectile circle campers and third world ooga boogas that make it extremely difficult to beat unless you also just camp and spam. Can't wait for yuzu to have netplay and be on par with melee online play.

Ok.
But what about player vs ai? I don't have anyone to play with irl.

Kirby is simple, but he's certainly not easy in Ultimate. Anyone with even basic knowledge will be at advantage against you if they're playing anything with range.

What makes snake and pokemon trainer stand out from other characters are the ways they can utilize their kits to recover from falling off the stage. Their combos has nothing to do with their difficulties. If you think Toon Link is just spamming arrows you're not a very good Toon Link player and you haven't met a good one yet. Im unsure if you're sarcastic or not when you say combos are hard. A brain dead badger can pull off Shiek combos.

Ai is better than ever in this game, but playing actual people is far preferable. Go hook up your Switch to ethernet and play with people in arenas on Anther's or discord. It's so much better than running into Joker and Ness with lag exclusively

Someone still doesn't understand what this tier list is
King K is bottom tier character but he's easy and simple to play. This isn't taking into account how good the character is against other characters it only takes into account how easy their moveset is and their mechanics. You're fucking brainless and don't know how to read.

I’m saying how is Kirby easy and Ness isn’t.

Kirby is EZ because recovery and that’s it, if anything F-Throw and DAir combos are easy to follow, but realistically they are hard to start. Kirby only has the easiest recovery.
Ness has FAir Combos.

>B-But Kirby can spam Specials!
>PK Fire

>But Ness recovery is hard!
>Half circle input is hard

>Kirby has cheap combos
>Ness has Down Throw and FAir

>Kirby can kill early with Down B!
>Kirby ever landing Down B
>Ness not having B-Throw or UAir

what about falco is hard to play? conceptually, he's very simple. get grabs and uptilts/downtilts, punish people for attacking your shield with parry to fair/nair, and edgeguard
it can be difficult to safely laser, but thats about it

>anybody being on the same tier as Ice Climbers

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>Kirby
>Spam dash
>Spam aerials
>Spam Down B and Up B out of it
If you pick up kirby it's insanely easy to just do semi decent ESPECIALLY as a brand new player, that's why so many new players gravitate towards them
Ness' recovery and combo for a player who has JUST picked up the game is far harder.
Easy Meter should be based on how well a brand new player can do with them, NOT an experienced one.

>Be me
>Watching tournament player use Ice climbers doing cool shit with desynch
>Decide to start playing Ice climbers
>Spend hours every day learning the perfect timing to desynch Nana during grabs and other animations
>Learn combos to do when finally managing to desynch in order to maximise damage
>Finally getting decent at it
>Patch 2.0.0
>The partner Ice Climber's AI has been improved: the partner will now follow the main climber better
>Time to forget every combo I learned and learn again.
>Patch 3.10
>Nana will no longer jump when pressing the jump button right after a grab.

Fuck You Nintendo I’ll go play some easy characters now.

>Pokemon Trainer
Try pressing down b
>Hard mode try doing that mid combo
>Snake
Again try pressing down b
>Toon Link
learn to read.
>Sheik
Easy to use hard to master.

>This isn't taking into account how good the character is against other characters
But you are playing against other characters and other players and the goal of the game is to win. So a character that has to work harder for the goal is inherently not one of the easiest characters in the game. In the specific example of K. Rool, he can't afford to play brainless because of the high lag of some of his moves and built in mechanics that work against him (losing the crown and armor breaks).

Ok fags I’m making a Yea Forumsersion of this.

Obviously it’s not finished so mention any changes that must be done

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We’re talking about how easy it is to learn a character move set user, not how good they are and how well they do.

Why is Ness in fairly hard? He's pretty brain dead.

Holy shit retard, the tier list is for how easy the character is to play not how easy they are to beat other players with
IT'S MOVESETS AND TECHNICALITIES
Why the fuck is Snake in hard if he's a really high tier character that performs well against almost everyone
It baffles me that you fail to understand how this tier list was made
King K. is put in EZ tier because he's easy to player
>Strong recovery
>Kills early
>Multiple Projectiles
>Counter
>Deflect
>Stuns
It's not about their performance it's about how easy a new player can play them you illiterate mong

Peach should be harder

Idk why they think Sheik or Olimar are hard

You decide to take a shortcut through a dark alleyway when SUDDENLY you stumble upon your main holding a large knife. How fucked are you?

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I say put Pac_Man up to fairly hard. It's hard for him to consistently get kills, and a good amount of his kills pretty much come from having to make a good mix up.

>Falco
>Fairly hard
As a Falco main, he's pretty easy to pick up and use.

>any difficult characters in smash

>purchase tendie online recently
>play online for the first time, battlefield only
>get matched up with a Dark Samus player
>literally only uses projectiles and stays on the ground at all times
>has no clue what to do once I start staying on the platforms
>ragequits after I three stock them once
Why do people play this game like they're retarded?

It's
Top
Rosalina, Wiifit
Palutena
Bayonetta
Samus
Peach
Daisy
and then the rest.
Rosa and WFT clock in at 24cm in the training stage.

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Wii Fit Trainer

As a multilink main, I find young link a lot easier than both other links.

Toon Link has very hard connects, his projectiles are trash and his recovery is a lot harder than Young. He only has more finishing power

Now post her canon bust size.

You know the rule of fanart. Tits and ass are multiplied by a factor of 2 at a minimum.

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>All my characters in "easy" or "fairly easy"
Anyway like other people are saying, it's fuckin Smash. It's not some technical fighting game with actually tough characters lmao, though some are obviously still better than others. And by the way there's nothing wrong with playing a top tier

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>It's not some technical fighting game with actually tough characters lmao
>Isn't smart enough to play anyone past fairly easy

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Why are Peach and Daisy hard tier on both lists? I don't play them as much as my other characters but that's because I nearly always win when I play them and I feel like it's totally braindead.

Shota's are the hardest characters in the game and anyone who disagrees hasn't played them enough.
Other notes are:
> cloud too low
> cpt. falcon too low
> Wolf too high
> DHD is braindead
> Snake should just be average and I main him
> Mario way too low
> Belmonts way too low
> Lucina not at the complete fucking bottom
> K-Rool should be higher and is way harder than ganon, mac or ike

Not him but a character like Fox or Lucario has an extremely straightforward moveset but is ranked as hard. It's clearly not just about how complex the character is on a technical or execution level.
If you're ranking them based on stuff like how early they kill and how strong their moves are then how is that any different from saying how well they do against other players?

It's a ranking of how easy it is for an inexperienced player to pick up that character and do well with them in a low-level competitive setting such as online.

Their float / combos / turnip is pretty fucking technical

I play who I want to. "Hard" characters in Smash don't have mechanical depth, they're hard because they suck dick in terms of range, frames, hitboxes, damage, and other shit. If you play a "hard" character in Smash it actually means you're retarded for crippling yourself before the match even starts

This is what I said in previous replies too.
Fox can be easy and basic sure but killing with him isn't super easy and his recover isn't as straight forward as kirby's jump spam
I was also the one who made the comment about an "easy meter" here

Update

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No it fuckin't isn't. I encountered a cocky Peach main at a regional back in the Smash 4 days, so game 2 in BO5, I picked Peach and beat them in the ditto. He dropped out after that because I had tilted him.

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>Toon Link
No. He's not as good as he used to be and he isn't as good as young link sure. But he's still close. Combining all his projectiles with cancels and up smashes. His projectiles works slightly differently than young links and used correctly they can be crazy combo starters, especially the boomerang.

>Smash 4 Peach
Yeah Ultimate and Sm4sh peach are pretty fucking different dude.

>"Hard" characters in Smash don't have mechanical depth

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>"I can only play fighting games with the brain dead OP fighter of the month"
Gotcha

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People said the same shit back then too and the Float still very much functions the same. Turnips just require you to know how to recatch.

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>Ken
>Hard
He's a fucking shoto. Anybody who's played a fighting game knows how ea- oh...

Peach/Daisy are the most technical characters in the game, most people will tell you that

>Mario easy
Am I the only one who can't this guy? He's so floaty and it makes movement weird for me.

Compared to some fighters that webm is tutorial-level execution

>I cripple myself because I have "honor" and need an excuse when I lose
Lol

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How are peach and daisy more technical than ice climbers

>DI's out of it
Half those 0 to Death combos only work if the opponent does LITERALLY nothing

Fuck all of you Fox is hard. He's made out of glass, has shit range and speed doesn't mean too much if you play online

Palutena needs to be between Lucina and Chrom, she's one of the easiest top tiers in the game

That's coming from a Palu main btw

No. Peach mains will tell you that and 90% of them are actual faggots or trannies.

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Unexperienced players yeah. Personally i find newer characters 10x more technical (but still not hard)

Laser lock, laser confirms, shine locks are all pretty tricky

>Compared to some fighters that webm is tutorial-level execution
Post a video of you performing a combo like that. There are tutorials on how to do them on Youtube that spoonfeed you the inputs and the game has a a built in method for saving videos to the SD card. I'll be waiting.

What makes Bowser fairly hard? I don't play him a lot but a lot of his aerials feel pretty good to me.

>putting characters as hard just because they are low tier

They're easy to play optimally you tard. They still suck though

>Half those 0 to Death combos only work if the opponent does LITERALLY nothing
Incorrect. Desync grab combos with ice climbers are inescapable for the majority of the cast if started at certain percentage ranges, usually 0-20%.

I got work and can't NEET around a Smash thread all day but I shitpost regularly so I guess I'll see you back here later if you wanna be autistic about it. But if you think Ice Climber gimmicks are at all comparable to shit from real fighters then just lol, I hope that's not your argument

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>he doesn't know the difference between camping and zoning
>he thinks every good sniper lands a headshot 24/7 and only noobs land bodyshots
>he can't counter stickies put in front of a common walk way
Should of expected a brainlet like you post such a dumb picture.

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I-I have a job but I'm still able to post on Yea Forums!
Yeah nice try talentless neet.

>anime poster
>is retarded

>Yea Forums is a full-time job
Jannie is that you?

There needs to be a parrying tier list, aka characters who get the most out of parrying. I already know the S tier would be snake and fox.

>dumb ass
>ass no argument

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Fairly yeah, though as an Inkling main I don't see why she'd be higher than Fairly Easy, and there's no way Pokemon Trainer is as difficult as the others in their tier. The Samuses could go up a slot too, and maybe Wolf down one. None of this is to claim the characters are simple, just easy to use well once you know what they can do.

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holy fuck you're retarded, you completely missed the point of the pic

Isabelle is only easy to play against shitters and certain matchups.

I can tell you Rosalina is low tier because lowest level techs require frame perfect execution on top of the fact that she loses most clashes. She has to put in far more to get less than everyone else. Her lowest level tech requiring highly specific execution was part of the reason like 5 people could get reliable results with her back in the smash 4 days.

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*has
Whoops

Palutena is braindead easy, her Nair and up air do most of the work

>Dr. Mario
>Dr.
>Never stabs anyone

I agree rosalina is hard I was mostly talking about fucking doctor mario being one of the hardest im the game
Argument for what? You completely misinterpreting an image and then acting smug about it?

>Captain Unga fairly hard
>Flowchart projectile spammer Belmongs fairly hard
>Doc is hard but mario is braindead
Low tier hero or just legitimately retarded?

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Surgery doesn't count. Dr. Mario has taken the hippocratic oath.

Falcon is worse than Ganondorf. The Belmonts are low tier at best. Doc is ten times worse than Mario, which makes him harder. I can tell you're an online only fag.

Falcon is pretty hard to effectively use. Of course if you just do basic up air strings online against a drooling opponent who doesn't DI he may seem easy, but falcon requires knowledge of attack canceling to properly use in any competitive match. His execution is near frame perfect. He's hard.

>Charizard in the same tier as Ganondorf
Dorf is literally "press any button, receive kill"
Zard has nothing to him.

Yes so you're just making a reverse tier list instead of actually evaluating the character's difficult. Also Falcon is not worse than Ganondorf, especially not after 3.1.

> snake
> wolf
> ganondorf
It doesn't even matter which one I'm fucked

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I didn't make the tier list shitter

>Of course if you just do basic up air strings
This is what high level falcons also do. Maybe they'll throw in a back air or stomp > knee.

Zelda
Palutena
Rosalina
Peach
WFT
Robin
Corrin
Sheik
Isabelle
Lucina

That doesn't change the fact that your only argument for the characters being hard to play is "well t-they're low tier!"

>Sheik and Zelda not having same size
they're literally the same person

So your character being at an inherent disadvantage DOESN'T make them harder to use effectively? Alright retard.

Link’s new bomb constitutes that he should at least be in fairly hard

Sheik binds them down. Very impressive, really, considering her size.

This user did a better job. I went ahead and checked his work and it's pretty close. Samus might be smaller than Peach but that's it.

I get the point.
The point is "when I do this it's justified and good, when they do it it's bad/noobish." But I think that point is dumb because there are clear difference in each example where you can tell a good player apart from a bad player.

A bad player will just throw projectiles because it's all the only thing he knows what to do, and can't build momentum off of them. While a good player throws projectiles to condition his opponent, or to build momentum off of.
A bad sniper will only land bodyshots no matter that target's speed. If the comic showed that he only lands bodyshots and still says he's getting good kills then that will make a better point.
The demo one is a fair point I will admit. Because yes the smart thing to do is put stickies around a common walkway, but it's still can be a bullshit thing to fight.

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The problem is that OP doesn't define (as far as I know) what difficulty entails. So you have technically demanding characters or ones that actually require practice like ICs, Shotos, Peach, Bayo, Ness, Shulk, hell, even PT versus characters which involve more understanding of how the tools work (Megaman, Pacman, Snake, DHD, etc). Finally you have strong characters who you don't need to know much to at least do okay with. I disagree with the order of the list in that there seems little rhyme or reason to have someone like Krool at the very bottom when he is at least slightly more mechanically complex than Lucina, even with dancing blade.

The tier list is based on how easy they are to pick up and play not how they perform against anyone else.
King K is low tier but easy to play for example

>Putting Doc and Mario at opposite ends

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Yes I am 100% saying that easy one-dimensional characters like K. Rool and Ganondorf are still easy even though they get raped in plenty of matchups. Being bad characters doen't change the fact that they have low skill ceilings.

>Falcon is worse than Ganondorf.
since when? maybe at the game's release and people were hyping up ganondorf buffs and f smashes but for months people have been steadily realising ganondorf is trash and falcon is mediocre. i don't think anyone in the past 3 months who is worth a damn at the game has put ganondorf above falcon. and the buffs he just got have pretty much secured falcon as a mid-high tier character that is solo mainable.

It makes sense. The characters are low tier BECAUSE they have low skill ceilings/don't really reward high level play

You have such a shitty tier list that I got out of bed to make this. Just cause a character sucks doesn't mean their hard. And you can't rate individual pokemon

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REEEEE
EASY TO PLAY AND GOOD CHARACTERS ARE NOT THE SAME THING

id like to see anyone putting mario easier than half the cast actually do ladder combos off the top or consistently rar bair approach. half the cast is more basic than him. also snake is not that hard, he has zero execution requirements

There are low tiers that are hard to play like ice climbers and there high tiers that are braindead like lucina and wolf

Tier has nothing to do with difficulty.

Exactly, this tier list is based on how difficult a character is to just play, not how difficult it is to perform well against everyone

Move Rosalina, and ZSS up one. Move Snake up two
Pichu, Palutena and every sword fighter down one.
Bayonetta isn't any harder than she was before, she just doesn't work, so take her and place in in average or easy.

Ken and Ryu aren't hard. They are just unconventional and gimmicky.

People sucked with Rosa in 4 because she's a high-committal character (she can't jump freely like most characters can) without an interesting gimmick in terms of speeding up her play or anything. Defensive powerhouse without any of the explosive rewards. Now she's much weaker defensively.

By what metric, though? I agree that Krool's gameplan is simple, but he is, at the very least, more technical than Kirby and arguably Mario. The problem here is that difficulty isn't defined-- many characters are piss easy at some level to play, but they often have increased depth due to some gimmick which requires at least some investment of time to parse out. Krool at least has his belly which is more than Kirby can say and as someone earlier in the thread pointed out-- GW is incredibly linear. Should having to say turned around count? This is dumb as fuck because sometimes technical understanding barely improves the character's capabilities and so it's relevancy is questionable. WFT has a zillion things she can do with the ball, but they aren't really needed to get 95% of her gameplan. Also, people saying Ness has nothing don't know about magnet movement

Void thinks falcon is bottom tier and ganondorf is high tier

>Update
Oh I realize now, I forgot a few.
Samus comes in just above Rosalina.
Daisy is equal to Peach.
ZSS comes in just below Rosalina.

Define what makes a character hard, please

>wario
>fairly hard

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Why does everyone say that playing Kirby is easy? Sure he's not too complex from an execution standpoint, but he's bottom-tier and all of his attacks are stubby as fuck. You have to play him extremely carefully if you want to succeed against a half-cognitive opponent who isn't just going to let you dair or stone him into oblivion.

I've realized the majority of people on this board are of sub-average intelligence and don't realize what this tier list is ranking the characters by

I'm sure it'll be fine.

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Yeah, one player out of the top 20 has a different opinion. Plus the last tier list he made was before Falcon got buffs.

yea sword characters are easy but they atleast have some combo game or some tricks they can do unlike everyone in the braindead category. Only one I'd consider is lucina, so no

Tier list isn't about success it's about how easy they are to play retard
>easy recovery
>basic moveset
>down B kills if lands
>Up B spam
Kirby is an easy character to play but not necessarily an easy character to perform with.

>megaman in a dark alley
We would probably step on some broken glass and explode instantly. He could use rush to travel over it, but he'd have to put the knife away

This is the most accurate list in this thread.

>Shulk
>Hard

>Snake,Yoshi, InSideBroar, Links
>Fairly Hard

>Wolf not killing himself

>Landing Marth’s tip is just average difficulty.

>Pichu is harder than Pikachu out of Melee

>Diddy Kong not just getting cheap follow ups from dash attack or banana peels.

>Jigglypuff can be used by anyone without issues

Both lists are shit

>Thinks shulk is easy but marth is difficult

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Both only do nothing but F-Airs and belong to braindead

Not that dude. He's conflating difficulty to succeed with options. Marth is pretty linear but requires far more out of the player than Shulk does-- Shulk is actually really, really easy to play at mid-level. He's Ike but even easier. Actually getting good at storage and other monado tricks are what ratchet Shulk up-- but at that base level, it's way easier to pick him up and find success with him than it is Marth. People are just dumb and equate ability to succeed with ability to control.

I do agree with one thing, though. Incineroar is incredibly linear and simple. It's like saying Ganon is technically difficult. Pretty much all of the heavies are extremely simple, with DK having the most to actually learn.

>Marth requires far more out of the player than Shulk does
You're literally a moron. Shulk played at a high level is 1000x more difficult than Lucina with a tipper. Void, Esam, Samsora all think he's one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult in the game to play, period.

I know a tranny that will only ever play Kirby and has beaten me many times on omega stages.

I'm talking mid-level, dingdong. Don't take part of the sentence out of context.

Lads, how do I get good with Ken? I'm decent at pulling off the inputs but really struggle to pull off buffer dash into true shoryu. I can beat most of my friend and coworkers pretty reliably but I struggle against Link and Samus pretty consistently.

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damn dude, lemme guess, you got all that knowledge from playing online right?

Based

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have you tried using the tilt stick for dash attacks?

Why is Piranha Plant not on the list?

Reminder that Shulk-cunts are whinny bitches that cry whenever Shulk isn’t praised

Yeah, I made that change a long time ago. I guess my main problem is the approach. I've practiced most of my tech chases and setups but I struggle to really pull off any true openers. I do most of my damage with shoryu snipes, tatsu to get close, and the occasional hadoken and fair

I'd really like to get good at setting up the tech chase with light tatsu, or really get to use jab jab crescent like ever outside of training

Imagine playing smush brothers.

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That can't be true. Shiek is a man.

This, you cannot put Samus in braindead because if you actually lose to a dumbass Spamus then you're the braindead one. Their projectiles simply aren't good enough to win by spamming them alone, not like Young Link for example

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Tilting in this game impossible.

How old is this? It doesn't even have Piranha Plant.

Gay Luigi

I find playing Mario harder than people think

>Luigi
I think I'm ok

>extremely hard
>snake

OH NONONONONONONONONO

Ungadorf should be on a tier of his own below everyone else

>ness
>fairly hard
I wonder who this list could have been made by?

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That's probably due to preference. He doesn't have too many things you have to get down to. You have to know your projectile and quickly be able to do your airials in all directions. The grab is also too good to require a lot of practice. The probelm is just putting all that together.

I have huge problem with heavies though. Both playing as them and against them.

reddit smashers play free for all with items online, theyre opinion means absolutely nothing

I don't even play Shulk and I wouldn't care if you said something like Ice Climbers being more difficult. But to claim an FE fag is harder to play than Shulk? Pure delusion.

You can't have that many Hadoukens out anyway

>b reversing is hard
>b reversing neutral B is hard
This is a stream monster/wi fi warrior list isnt it

Piranha Plant requires someone to play him to know how hard he is to play.

Snake is not hard to play as. He's the same as any other projectile character

Memesters dropped him

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none of the characters in Ultimate are particularity hard to learn so a chart like this is silly
>inb4 peach fags claim holding down and jumping is hard

this is pretty fucking bad

Snake is more hard than extremely hard. His attacks are good enough that he can do well without mastery of his explosive attacks. His tilts hitting like smash attacks offsets him needing control of his specials to be played optimally.
Ice climbers need desyncing to be effective and that's a technique that's legitimately hard to take advantage of.
I would put pokemon trainer in fairly hard. Besides getting used to switching, and knowing when to, they're pretty standard. You need good fundamentals to recognize how to use all 3.
Mega Man I would put fairly hard too. He isn't as technical as Pacman or Duck Hunt even.

Pikachu should be fairly hard too. His combos are a little harder in this game. Also, it's harder to defend with him in the air after the neutral air change.
Lucina is the easiest character in the game imo. She has very little combos compared to MArio or Kirby and has sword aerial which are easier to land than limb based moves. She's very straightforward, where as with Kirby and Mario you need to have combos to use them optimally. Isabelle is about the same as Villager too.

Swap Mario with snake first off

Ones who need a big brain or nimble hands are Peach/Daisy, Link(pro level), and Mega Man

>big brain
my main
>unga bunga
you're main

> Not mapping them to cstick.

or they could just remove smash attacks from the left stick and give them a Y or X binding like every Smash clone has had the sense to do. Whats the point of this new indepth control scheme editor if they arent going to have basic shit in it

Nah, Ryu, Ken, and Bayonetta should be moved up to extremely hard. Ice Climbers dropped to hard and Snake to fairly hard.

>bowser
>hard
He's absolutely braindead

>Meta Knight AND Ridley

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You ever learn mean median and mode in grade school?

Move Palu down, and I agree with this.

Someone in Japan literally did this by going into training mode, using an item that makes the characters stand sideways, and measuring. I believe number 1 was Corrin.

Lucasfag here. I'd say he's pretty hard.
Wonky Aerials and jumps. Weird magnet. Nonlethal up b. High knockback pk fire you can't combo into. Lasso.
If you think he's easy because you spam pk fire/freeze, that says more about you and your opponent than the character.

>very hard: difficult movement options that can be used in neutral and projectiles used in kill setups
>hard: difficult movement options that can be used in neutral
>easy: neither

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