Why do western "localizers" ruin the original devs vision?

Because jap writing is cringe and deserves to be "ruined"

Hey Ben, still looking for a job?

it can't be helped

>a name gets lost in translation

Attached: benefit of the doubt.jpg (300x392, 27K)

I bet you enjoy all the >japanese """humor""" threads

They are bad at their job. simple as that.
Localization is important, but examples like that are bad and are a result of low skilled translators.

I don't know the context behind anything posted in this thread, I'm just telling you how it is and why 1:1 translations are not desirable.

Why do EOPs constantly complain about the only reason they can even play games? It's like watching a snake bite the bird that's carrying it.

>and why 1:1 translations are not desirable

Attached: dumb and stupid.png (229x286, 127K)

The same reason why people who take public transportation will complain if there is a puddle of urine on the train.

I wonder if the irony of posting a screenshot of a game with heavy localisation is utterly lost on you.

Listen kid, do you want an actual conversation or are you just gonna spout meme macros? Don't fuck around and waste my time.

someone post that image about learning jap

the worst kind of translators are the ones who believe they can insert their own touches on an author's original work.

The worst kinds of EOP are the ones who think there's a single translator alive who can "translate" a work and leave nothing behind.

You are reading an interpretation at best. The translator is always going to insert their own touches.

translation is a work of two authors if you want an autistic transliteration use google translate

I can understand sometimes a literal translation is not possible.
However changes to fit "cultural standards" are bullshit.
It's way too arbitrary of a criteria and ultimately I think there's no point to it, if you buy a Japanese game is because you expect a Japanese game. I'm not going to refund it because they eat rice instead of corn syrup and anyone who does is a retard.

>The translator is always going to insert their own touches.
Not true at all. In literary circles there are renowned translators who are famous for how accurately and faithful their translations of famous works are. Don't let the misdeeds of a few color the many.

We're on the same page you and I.

autism its just a video game, not the great gatsby

But user, we have to fix that yucky Japanese text!
As a translator, I'd get fucking fired on the spot if I let myself have this kind of creative freedom over the original text. You're there to carry forward the information that's contained in the original, that's it.
If you're a translator, you're not there to fix things, you're not there to rewrite, get over yourself and do your job.

>>However changes to fit "cultural standards" are bullshit.
Games are ultimately an entertainment product. The one I always go back to is the whole KKK thing that sperg lost his job over.

Cultural context is important. The intent of KKK in the original is to be a spoof on NKK. In English, KKK has a completely different connotation, and the pun is totally lost because NKK isn't known in the west.

If you want a Japanese game, if you expect a Japanese game, then you play it in fucking Japanese. You shouldn't expect a localisation team to make something to appeal to you and be more "authentic" to the original, when all it's going to do is cause strife and bad PR with Twitter nutjobs.

How do you savage a series that has become a shittier parody of itself?

Attached: 1541098931521.png (300x430, 160K)

So? Should people not try 'cause it's a video game, not a great literary work? I guess those localizers can just touch up a Google Translate text and that'll be enough, it's a video game after all.
Don't you see how that's a fucking problem when you put "authentic" as something undesirable because what, Twitter fags may cry about it? Don't you realize how fucked the situation you've described is?

If a job is worth doing it is worth doing well.

Nice cherry picking.
>You shouldn't expect a localisation team to make something to appeal to you and be more "authentic" to the original, when all it's going to do is cause strife and bad PR with Twitter nutjobs.
Excuse me but what the fuck?

>Implying I care what translators put in the game
As long as I can play it in English I'm happy with whatever they do.

These threads are the most entitled zoomer garbage. Video game censorship and localization is nowhere near as bad as it used to be and these kinds of changes are inconsequential to the experience overall.

ur just a wageslave
i have a nonjob and with ur mindset i wouldnt be shitposting for 10k a month but working my ass off

>So? Should people not try 'cause it's a video game, not a great literary work?
When you pay peanuts, you get monkey work. These aren't celebrated works with a rich history, although you can already find N3s treating older games like that and doing "relocalisation" fan work for free. Blame yourself for supporting the parasitic practice of localisation companies in the first place.

>Don't you see how that's a fucking problem when you put "authentic" as something undesirable because what, Twitter fags may cry about it?
I think the state of the world is fucking pathetic, but it is what it is. I can totally understand why these companies are doing this, it doesn't mean I agree with them for doing it. I'd personally respect them more if they kept the KKK joke, but my dollars and your dollars don't matter as much as the masses.

If you cared enough, you'd learn Japanese.

Then do a job worth doing, user.

If you're invested in video games enough to hang out in a video game forum shouldn't you carry the hobby in higher regards? Games such as Planescape already has better writing than many shoddy novels.

Except it isn't bullshit.
As someone who is into Arthurian legend, to think of something like translating the Spoils of Annwn to English as closely as possible in a literal sense is fucking retarded. You lose all emotional impact directly related to diction - often chosen on a colloquial basis that is relevant to the culture and language of origin. Given that the structure of language very widely differs from language to language, and that language in and of itself is immediately an articulation of ideas and concepts - once again, which is pretty much always fundamentally different from one another - it is next to impossible to make an English line directly translated to Japanese feel nearly as emotionally impactful, or the other way around.

The only people that direct translations appeal to are literal weebs who find those original lines "so deep and sophisticated" with a heavy bias favoring Japanese culture and often trivializing western culture. You god damn fucking retarded weeb, don't you have an anime to idolize as art?

Attached: double translation.png (650x188, 20K)

no thanks id rather be happy and have money

Yeah, it should always be 1:1, like in Persona 4 where Naoto asks you if you'd prefer she refer to herself as "I" instead of "I."

Pretty sure "cultural standards" doesn't refer to expressions, idioms and the like but instead things such as changing Japanese food items to American food items.

>However changes to fit "cultural standards" are bullshit.
How about unnecessary changes that go against cultural standards and get you fired from Working Designs?

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>but instead things such as changing Japanese food items to American food items.
This is literally only an issue in media literally intended for children. I don't know why people are acting like they boot up persona and see jelly donuts, it's just not a fucking issue if you aren't 10 years old and watching Pokeymans.

Yakuza games are for children and part of Pokemon. Never knew that. Neat.

I'm paying you to translate what the author actually wrote, not your emotional interpretation of the work when you're probably just a normalfag with normalfag sensibilities yourself. There's usually voice acting I can rely on for the emotional aspect anyways.

>Yakuza games are for children and part of Pokemon
The fuck? Give me one food item that was changed to be American in Yakuza.

Attached: YAKUZA-6_-The-Song-of-Life_20180408185006.jpg (1920x1080, 328K)

>Yakuza games are for children
I mean, they are, but I'm curious, what grievous changes did they make?

Yakuza 3. Changed some names to American names such as the dog.

I'm 99% sure that everyone that want a 1:1 transliteration from japanese to english are anglos who know exactly one language and have no idea how translating actually works.

Don't bother user, these people have clearly never ordered/performed a translation. You have guidelines, you have appropriate vocabularies so that your translation is consistent, you have standards that are expected of you as a translator. When all's said and done, you are a recipient of the original text too, so your interpretation is as valid as anyone else's. No amount of bullshit will change the fact that you cannot go and rewrite fucking paragraphs of text because you felt it was "better".

Oh and also they changed the hostess clubs to fast food hamburger restaurants.

Wrong, most of them are ESLs who think terms like "it can't be helped" are completely fine. I don't think anyone has ever even done an example of a 1:1 transliteration, probably because when you try and do it every single bone in your body starts screaming at you to stop immediately.

I translate chinese 1:1 to english in my head though?

because the original "vision" doesn't make sense in your land.

>puts Zero Escape and 999 as separate things
Fucking peanut gallery.

>changed the hostess clubs to fast food hamburger restaurants.

Attached: laughing not gold face.jpg (600x582, 68K)

You don't, you're just thinking in another language.
I'm not english, and when I write in english I don't think in my language first and then how to translate it in english, I just do it.

Translating 1:1 is impossible, maybe (and I mean MAYBE) it could be possible with two languages that are closely related to eachother, but I still think that you'll get some real weird shit.

LMFAO
what game is this
any more screenshots?

Attached: 1534251366478.png (633x861, 115K)

>Yakuza 3
>changed the hostess clubs to fast food hamburger restaurants
You may as well not bring up Y3 as that game was cut up by the localization team to hell and back. A bunch of side quests, the hostess minigame and other stuff were simply cut out. This is not a matter of translation, this was just the team doing what they could to release the game in the West at least in some capacity.

And this is the kind of retard that gets mad whenever a Japanese character refers to another character by their name first so they rearrange half the sentence so that the namedrop is at the end of the sentence so their fellow English teachers don't have an aneurysm over a noun followed by a comma when anyone who isn't an EOP retard can still understand it.

Albert Odyssey. The main editor for that game was responsible for a lot of edgy right-wing jokes back when he worked at Working Designs and went WAY overboard with them in that game. He was let go from the company shortly afterwards.

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>Ebonics
LMFAOOOOO
AHAHAHA THAT'S HILARIOUS
Imagine if he did that in todays time

I don't even know what level of projection you're on here.

Holy fuck why does this matter so much I just want to play vidya why do I have to learn another language to play vidya "properly" holy shit. If it's japan only i'll either look for a translated script or just figure out how the menus and actions work why is this such a huge deal. I just want to play video games

Lmao, what a guy. Why, though?
Nowadays people wouldn't settle for him just leaving the company, they'd go after him his entire career for daring to utter such blasphemy.

Attached: 1503506823957.jpg (400x400, 19K)

Also twitter screencaps should be banned.

>although you can already find N3s treating older games like that and doing "relocalisation" fan work for free
I'm requesting for you to retract that statement for calling me and a ton of others out like that.I'll be N2 next year shut up.

Hello Anglos, allow me to explain why literal translations are fucking dumb and don't work.
I will now write a simple sentence in my language, and then literally translate it in english.
Then I will add a normal translation.

Ciao, mi piacciono molto i videogiochi.
Hello, to me they like a lot the videogames.
Hello, I really like videogames.

See the problem?
And my language, being indo-european and romance, is still loosely related to english.

Imagine how fucking stupid it is to translate japanese literally into english.

Persona 4 location is extremely retarded

"Not on my watch." does have a different attitude compared to "I won't let you do it."

>Lmao, what a guy. Why, though?
For the same reason some horny undergrad at DeJap included a joke about Arche fucking like a tiger in the Phantasia fan translation. People didn't take translation quality very seriously back in the 90s. And that goes for everyone from the Japanese businessmen who greenlit localizations to marketing managers in North America and Europe who changed shit in games whenever they felt like it. People complain about Fire Emblem characters having changed dialogue, but this shit is nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

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Yeah, the correct attitude for the situation. Knowing the show, it's almost certainly just させません, as in somebody is threatening the beta protagonist and she's getting in the way. Only a fucking retard could complain about such a thing, and the N5s they employ over at J-list are a pretty good example of such retards.

not really. both phrases have the same idea of the person saying them presenting themselves in a guarding role. weebs are just mad when localizations actually do a good job because then they cant use the translations as learning material which is a retarded mindset in the first place.

I can translate your entire post to spoken chinese in my head though and I see no problems? Although it is pretty shitty English so I had to insert some pronouns here and there. Maybe the people who don't think you can do it aren't conversationally fluent in both the languages they try to translate to and from?

>learning Japanese because some faggot translated your weebshit wrong

>user sits at his computer
>Plays game
>Anime girl has her huge fucking titties removed
>The breast groping minigame is removed
>The npc goes on a long tangent about how he grows plants and his daughter is named a pun based on sexually transmitted diseases, all of which is obviously the translators fanfiction
>"Gee, I sure wish this game had a more faithful and accurate translation."
>This awakens a rumble
>Oh no, he thinks to himself
>They've awaken
>An obese beast bangs on his door
>"ACTUALLY 1:1 TRANSLATIONS DON'T EXIST"
>The door flies off
>"THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO SAY GOODBYE IN JAPANESE THAT DON'T TRANSLATE DIRECTLY TO A SINGLE ENGLISH WORD, SO SOME LOCALIZATION IS NEEDED"
>The user tries to throw a lamp at the blob to subdue it, this only angers it however
>"TRUST ME I READ ANCIENT ARTHURIAN LEGEND IN MY SPARE TIME I KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE"
>As the user is torn limb by limb, he hears one final phrase before he enters the Lord's embrace
>"IF YOU WANT A FAITHFUL EXPERIENCE YOU NEED TO LEARN JAPANESE"

You can't even type in English, dude. Doesn't that invalidate your whole argument?

This. Their eyes are always closed

>"I AM SILLY" - the copypasta
Brilliant argument. You've really dropped the scales from my eyes.

Because they don't exactly hire literary translators. It's usually whatever fuck happens to speak both languages and lives in either LA or Tokyo. That's why translations overwhelmingly use American grammar, slang, and phrases.

Glad I could help user

This is ironic coming from someone who can't understand an English sentence more complicated than a grade school level one.

Oh really, translating literally word-for-word is bad? Wow, such amazing insight, thanks user!
NOBODY does translation word-for-word except for automated translators like Google, and even those nowadays allow for smoother translations, because such translation never works.

In this thread we argue against extremely liberal translations that go for entire paragraphs of changed text due to """localizers""" thinking they know better. They're not at fault though, as competent producers and managers would through such translation out the window and hire someone better than can follow the script without going off on their personal tangents. Obviously, the higher-ups simply don't care.

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I'm not the same guy, buddy. I'm amazed you can't even write a single sentence without basic schoolboy errors, though. I guess money can't buy everything, eh?

Are you retarded
Do you not know about the distinction between literal translations and loose translations?

zastrzel się
shoot yourself
shoot yourself

>Obviously, the higher-ups simply don't care.
Nobody cares. You wouldn't even care, if you hadn't seen some cherry-picked screenshot.

What you're really complaining about most of the time is just meaningless garbage. But hey, at least it's not as bad as sperging out about "muh honorifics".

Check out how cool this guy is, he doesn't even care about things

>What you're really complaining about most of the time is just meaningless garbage
Oh, thanks user, because you said so, it must be true! And here I thought I had genuine issues with some of the choices some translators make when working on games, how silly of me.
>You wouldn't even care
I work in translation, retard, I care for the quality of the craft.

I don't think most people want a direct 1:1 translation unless they're an idiot. The problem is when you get stupidly translated shit. Using your sentence for example, your translation is fine. What people wouldn't want and would probably get is that sentence translated as something like, "Wowie wow, I think these video games are hella epic!" It still conveys the idea that you like video games, but in a much more obnoxious and pointless way.

user, it is blindingly obvious you have no idea what a literal translation
A literal translation is not "Hello, to me they like a lot the videogames". A literal translation is "Hello, I like videogames a lot".
A loose translation is "Heya, I loves me some vidya".

Why do you think I thought you were the same person or that it even mattered and I was somehow referring to the original post when I was calling you a grade school level retard? Maybe you should've taken classes higher than regular English 12 with your big brain intellect.

Even though I enjoyed BlazBlue and 999, I can say with confidence that every single title there is trash and nothing of value was lost.

I don't understand none of the dialogs in Guilty Gear

Well, looking at retards like this , this insight is clearly not as common as you think.

>not on my watch
Passive aggressive bullshit
>I won't let you do it
Literally telling you that you won't let me do it

Oh, my bad, you're just delusional enough to think you're fluent in English. I'm guessing daddy paid a lot for those tutors, so you're very confident in your ability.

It's just a shame you're delusional.

>Passive aggressive
Lol what.

>Passive aggressive
I don't even

Stay mad EOP

It's called "localization", not "literal translation", you clods. If you care so much about what the Japanese dialogue says 1:1, go learn Japanese.

An awful faggy self-important way to tell someone no isn't it? Or rather you're telling literally anyone who can hear you that you're telling someone no.

>shitposting on a botswanian pottery bbs
yeah, sounds like everythings going peachy

I have't played Cold Steel so I have no idea about context of the lines, but working at localization myself (not as translator, but on graphic side) I could see where the translator and editor are coming from here.
Sometimes to make translated script flow better you want to remove or combine lines. Depending on the project and engine the game is running on that's not always possible, but it's such a rare opportunity that most translators embrace it when it can be done. So in cases like this it'd be best to compare several lines in the scene rather than just a single one removed from context.
That's not to say that there aren't also shit translators who either have very poor grasp of Japanese (NISA people), just insert their own jokes in for the hell of it (Working Designs) or both (NISA again). But I want to give people benefit of doubt, and think why choices like this might be made.

And that is what I did and it is based. Now I dont care what dumb translators do.

I still do because I love telling people how horrible they are at their job.

like the guy who was translating mahou tsukai no yoru for 4 years and got blown the fuck out so hard by a /jp/ user that he quit the very next day.

I'm a professional translator and I've played CS and the translation is a load of retarded shit clearly done by retards from the Working Designs school of "jap shit is dumb I'm going to replace it with my own superior writing" translation.

Yeah, it should be. Much rather have that and a TN at the bottom, than whatever fat landwhale drivel is inserted by """""localization"""""

The important part of what the author "actually wrote" isn't the words, dumbass, it's the IDEAS. The MEANING. And because both the structure and meanings of languages can be so vastly different from one another, translating literally is fucking retarded.

>like the guy who was translating mahou tsukai no yoru for 4 years and got blown the fuck out so hard by a /jp/ user that he quit the very next day.
This I want to hear more about. Just how badly did he get blow the fuck out?

If you want authentic, learn Japanese.

REAN KYOKAN

I don't need someone who literally thinks it's okay to cut a little kid's dick off to tell me what he thinks the message the author was trying to send was. Just give me the words.

Just like "live actions". The objective is the denigration of the original material as much as possible.

Since they don't translate, but localize.
It's their fucking job to ruin the original devs' vision in order to make the game sell overseas.
People who intentionally play localizations instead of learning the language and playing the original only got themselves to blame.

Fuck the Western world. Japan should return to close itself off.

Except they come across as two different attitudes. "Not on my watch" is more a light hearted way to say no with a smile on your face, where "I won't you you do it" shows a more emotional connection and a hard stance that they will not let thing happen. Completely different tones.

most of the actual callouts were on /jp/ and weren't archived, but there's always this and pic related

>So you are telling me that you're fully aware of how highly inaccurate several parts of your translation are, but wouldn't even care to go back and fix them if the project was otherwise 100% done? alright man.

"No I’m saying I don’t have it in me to go poring through seven chapters line by line looking for errors since it’s both exhausting and embarrassing, like hopping on a pedal generator just to power a TV playing an old home movie of that one terrible school play you were in

Yes I saw that thread on /jp/ and it made me want to crawl into a hole and die that a me at any point in time made such elementary mistakes
Like how did I ever look at that Japanese and write that English, I could cry"

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You are literally autistic, and you don't know English.

I want the next best thing. If fansubbers for anime can choose to stick very close to the actual Japanese, why couldn't a game translation too. I unironically wouldn't mind translation notes.

ITT: People who have English as a secondary language, arguing about how English should be used in translations.
I really don't even.

are you an esl

Because translating exactly what the japs say makes the English sound awkward and weird, so they employ their own interpretation of lines/jokes.

>If fansubbers for anime can choose to stick very close to the actual Japanese,
They can't. You're just mistaking lazy work covered by TL note garbage for "quality", because you're dumb and you think anime should be an edutainment product.

Nobody cares about your interpretation faggot, go write your own shit if you want to convey your own personal interpretation of "emotional meaning". Except you can't because it would be just that, shit, and nobody would ever want to read it. So instead you have to butcher actual good works with your artistic faggotry because it's the only way you can ascribe meaning to your pathetic existence.

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That image, holy fuck.

>>Nobody cares about your interpretation faggot
You do. You're the one buying it, every time you consume a fucking translation.

If you didn't need an interpretation, you wouldn't need to buy a translation.

Haha.... That's our XSneed....

Haha, that's our Rean

You're fucking retarded. Japanese is an entirely different language, and some concepts and part of the way it works is so different that often if you do a literal translation you'll end up with a broken piece of English text that makes no fucking sense and sounds like someone was having a stroke while trying to talk.

reminder that this was listed for 4 years on visual novel translation updates and fuwanovel as an ongoing project, had an 260 page forum thread and is attached to the gigantic type-moon franchise, and literally not one single person on the entire internet decided to check how accurate it is.

cool it with the projection, user. Contrary to your dumbass belief, translating isn't actually that difficult if you know the language. That's why fansubbers can do it too.

I don't play japanese games so I don't care

Do you have any actual arguments you EOP retard

I said I don't care about HIS personal take, I care about the original authors take, and the point of a translator is to give that take to the audience as directly as possible, not to shit things up with "hur dur the author was really trying to say this" and bending the wording.

Get some reading comprehension you dumb nigger.

You're fucking retarded, P5 had a relatively faithful translation and it was just fine. Not to mention some terms don't have to be translated.

>the point of a translator is to give that take to the audience as directly as possible
And what you don't understand is that such a feat is impossible.

The point of a localization is to change and adapt a story for foreign audiences to be able to understand without having to expect them to be aware of complex social conventions or foreign tropes. That's literally what it is to "localize"

That said, a lot of "localizations" actually border on or are just rewrites, which isn't a good thing. But to expect absolute 1:1 TN's note-riddled translations from commercial products is just silly.

Faithful is not the same as 1:1 literal, which is what the topic of conversation was about. What is this backpedaling?

because they feel entitled, it gives them a power-trip feeling since they believe that they actually contributed to the creation of the game itself.

Localization staff needs to be as transparent and unbiased as possible and not deviate, but stay true to the original concept and script. The ones who did Bloodborne did a really good job.

>asks about argument
>on a guy who insists a common phrase as "passive aggressive" or "not serious"

It's not, you just want leeway to shit things up with your own personal ideas cause you failed as an artist on your own.

Care to explain a little? Is the whole problem that he went with cut down instead of discard?

Nobody wants word-by-word translation, you spaghetti-munching autist. The whole deal is when translators CHANGE the meaning of a dialogue/sentence.

It was 1:1, that's what I call faithful. What is this retardation?

No it wasn't. Jesus, do you legit fail to understand that 1:1 wouldn't even make sense and feel like an actual English sentence? For real?

Because localizers are fucking retarded (((individuals))), who should just do their job and TRANSLATE.

You're a fucking retard. Your post reeks of being ing the 110-115 IQ zone - the zone where people "think" they're smart because they know some shit, really everyone is shitting on you behind your back you fucking fag,

Unironically kys.

>not serious
Fucking what? You must be serious if you’re telling 20 different people that you won’t let something happen instead of just telling one faggot that you won’t let him do it.

"In the first image he drops a line about how Aozaki is avoided/feared by the teachers as much as she is relied upon by them, which is shitty but I don't really care. Then the teacher makes his statement that is more or less the same the translation, however, at the end of his sentence he clearly says in simple hiragana "だからじゃないよ" which means "not because of what I just said" so what he's really saying is that it's NOT because she's a hardcore student council president, admittedly with an sarcastic undertone. Translator somehow completely misses simple hiragana and reverses the meaning of the sentence making it even more Positive when it should be negative. Could honestly be written off as working on the script while half asleep or something if you're generous. But he should have instantly realized his fuckup by Aozaki's response which is something like "I really can't think of another reason I'd be standing here right now though." That sentence would make no sense in his translation, because it plays of the "だからじゃないよ" from the last sentence. So he just rewrites it into something that fits and we are left with two mistranslated sentences. I'm pretty sure he didn't even rewrite it on purpose, his actual knowledge in japanese is probably pretty low and he saw the "それ以外" which can be read as "other than" as an indication/confirmation that the first sentence didn't end with a negative."

>Yea Forums unironically defends lolcalizations
Holy shit, even Yea Forums is not this retarded.

Haha...
That's our Yea Forums!

Yea Forums is filled with newfags from pedoera

As you noted yourself, the だからじゃないよ is very forced and sarcastic, or at least feels that way to me. So basically he's kind of implying that is precisely the reason. And that's kind of what the TL went for. Don't get me wrong, it's not right, but as far as the raw message goes, it's not wrong is it? Granted, when you read the next piece of dialog the sarcasm kind of becomes a bit essential, which then forces the TL to modify that as well. Again, it's bad, but the way you guys went over it I was expecting something that entirely changed everything, such as the Mars incident in Etrian Odyssey 5.

Sounds like you have weird standards for English. Remember how sentences from plays like Romeo & Juliet sound? It also sound strange to us, somewhat antiquated, but it's still English. I don't mind that, I like it even.

Yea Forums watches nothing but crunchysubs, because that's the only thing left. they can't even tell the shit they're reading is localized.

>"localizer" that hates absolutely everything about japanese media somehow has a job translating japanese games

How do you translate ding-dong diddly?

>people translate Dai Gyakute Saiban with a 1:1 translation
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?
>Asougi...
>What do you mean?

The game becomes a fucking drinking game in how much those two phrases keep being uttered.

That's our Rean

Only story shit is translated in gg. I still don't know what half the cast says during battles.

Do you think the name Brutus means anything in Japan or China? To them Brutus is just a name, but in Europe it a name that's goes hand in hand with betrayal.

Let's translate DGS 1:1 shall we?

>On the topic of you, used these scissors and was trying to cut beautiful blonde hairs!
Damn, that sounds so natural in English!

Attached: qvB6spG.png (400x240, 73K)

a bunch of EOPs in this thread demanding the literal translation of original text because "it's what the author intended!!! i don't want your normalfag sensibilities and your own emotional interpretation!!!"
no, you braindead faggots, that's not how it works, because translating things literally is exactly how you lose the meaning of the author.

I thought these "muh tl notes and fansubs are sugoi" fags died out in mid 10's.

Aren't most instances of blatant racism / sexism in anime games just the writers making other people look horrible so that the main character can look good just by demonstrating basic politeness and human decency?

You're a retard.

>Much rather have that and a TN at the bottom
That's how it works in books, too. e.g. Terry Pratchett's books contain a lot of wordplay that can't be translated in languages other than English, so there's a lot of TNs for puns and whatnot. Works a lot better than some clandestine auteur rewriting the book.

>and in the topic of that, more eloquently than words... and honestly speaks!

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You're a fucking retard if you think books like these don't have localisation out the fucking asshole for their translations, dumbfuck

>people actually defending rub a dub thanks for the grub

Isn't that basically what itadakimasu means?

no one is asking for a word for word translation you retard.
just proper translations that dont rewrite shit to be completely different or adding memes or other shit.

> Yea Forums watches nothing but crunchysubs

lmao, Yea Forums hates crunchyroll and their subs.

They don't. The worst was a German translation inserting advertisements for a local pub in Guards! Guards!, but other than that they're translated as literally as possible. I switched to reading the originals when I acquired enough English experience to do so, and there is almost no difference. Also, it's incredibly obvious that they're translated from English as opposed to being written by a native, just because of the difference in speech structure and mannerisms.

Most are, but there's also main characters that are sexist and the game doesn't let you play as non-sexist.

what do they watch then? none of them know japanese. most shows literally have no other sub group.

booklet

most anime have subs other than Horriblesubs, user. Not hard to notice on nyaa or animetosho

alright, sweetie let's unpack this:

broke: eVeRy TrAnSlAtIoN i S LoCaLiZaTiOn
woke: Realizing that it is the inserting of the translator's own ideas and views into a game's scripts that is being protested, and that the translator making sentences more natural-sounding is perfectly okay.

>Let's translate DGS 1:1 shall we?
>1:1
>1 TO 1 RATIO

And if it was written by a native there wouldn't be these differences in speech structure and mannerisms, which is the entire thing you and your ilk are crusading against in this thread.
That in and of itself is localisation. Localisation is making it so that native readers can read it and feel like someone from their own language wrote it.
What you people have a problem with are just shitty translations in general

Haha I bet you losers $10 you won’t post your lewdest Fies, Saras, Alisas, or Emmas haha

They don't, you should read one of them. I compared the English versions of the first couple Discworld novels with the translated ones in my native language, and they were spot-on.

Shakespeare's plays sound a bit odd today because of their antiquated vocabulary, but the sentences are constructed more or less the same way as in modern English so they still flow well and sound good because you are reading it in the original language with all meaning and nuance intact.

A 1:1 translation from Japanese to English sounds odd because Japanese is so radically different in the way that sentences are assembled that everything comes out as stilted, awkward, and at times borderline gibberish. Ironically a literal translation also completely obliterates most nuance and clever wordplay in the original text because it's done so differently between the two languages most of the time.

That is exactly what localisation is.
You have the idea that localisation is adding in random shit from your culture to replace the content of the book. It's not.
I can't believe I have to explain this.

Literally only americans do this.

I take it he had nothing to do with the most recent Guilty Gear games?

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No. Just fuck off.
You are just butthurt because you fear getting jobless.

What's the point exactly of typing a name like リィン? What makes it different from リン or リーン?

Japan has a boner for characters saying the other person’s name dramatically to imply some sort of emotion.

America has a hate boner for continuous use of tropes and cliches which leads them to trying to come up with something better that doesn’t fit the mood.

thats exactly what localization is, its in the word itself.
removing anything that feels foreign (and whatever else the translator personally doesnt like) and replacing it with more local sounding content.

>sperging out about "muh honorifics".
Removing honorifics, especially from a narrative set in Japan, inhibits the audience's ability to grasp subtle character dynamics.

Except the audience doesn't even understand half the honorifics, so they're really just pointless flavor.

>removing anything that feels foreign (and whatever else the translator personally doesnt like) and replacing it with more local sounding content.
Imagine being such a fucking dumbass that you think this.
Localisation is not "durr get rid of everything that's foreign lol its in the word itself lol" , translators that get rid of things they don't personally like are just SHITTY TRANSLATORS and have FUCK ALL to do with localisation.
Translation is a PART OF localisation. Translation generally conveys the meaning of text. Localisation does the exact same thing, but accounts for cultural differences and other factors as to not make whatever they are localising seem completely fucking retarded because different cultures understand different things differently, big fucking surprise you absolute fucking brain damaged troglodyte.

Reminder that if the writing isn't capable of showing these 'subtle' character dynamics without literally using labels to display them clear as day then it's bad writing.

Then they audiwnce can take quick look ata spreadsheet explaining thir meanings. Takes like 2 minutes at most.

>Localisation does the exact same thing, but accounts for cultural differences
so it removes the foreign stuff and replaces it with local stuff.
got it.

>the audience should do research

They don't, they try to convey it to a new audience, a new audience which has a different set of expectations when it comes to media, which means that being as close to a transliteration into another language as possible will NEVER give that same experience.

>Reminder that if the writing isn't capable of showing these 'subtle' character dynamics without literally using labels to display them clear as day then it's bad writing.
Yes, because the Japanese writers shouldaabsolutely have to look out for and adapt to the poor westerners that can't be bothered to look at a short spreadsheet.

I don't know what's more laughable, that you think you understand honorifics after 2 minutes, or that you think there should be a barrier to entry for fucking translation.

Here's a great example for you. ~たち and ~ら are basically both used as plurals, but you can attach them to someone's name to mean "X and the rest". This doesn't flow well in English, so instead of translating these properly and using "you guys" or some other common grouping for such scenarios, people should just learn what these mean, and subtitles should say Naruto-tachi and I-ra.

Also sometimes you can't add new textboxes. So then you have to get creative.

m-muh wind

>expecting to engage with and understand foreign content w/o having to at least do the bare minimum of research

There's more to honorifics than suffixes.You buffoon.

There's almost always a way around them, like adding nicknames or altering between addressing a character by name or surname

You already lose some of the original intent with the translation.

So what's the point in arguing?

Hey, not the guy you're talking to, but do you think you could help me with this question?

Valid. I'll take that L.

Hell, why stop there? All the different forms of "I" used in Japanese aren't interchangeable, and there's plenty of flavor to be had from retaining them. Washi think that boku-ra should keep the true "meaning", it's not hard to look up a spreadsheet and find out who uses sessya and who uses chin, right?

I already lost my foreskin

just gonna cut my whole dick off

So glad you retarded esl weebs aren't in charge of translations, I had the displeasure of reading many literal translations in the manga scene and goddamn it put me off on them forever.

Because people want to pretend that they're learning Japanese by watching subtitles anime and games. Because they're cretins who worship an unattainable grass instead of taking the grass they have for it's own merits and learning the language they want to understand so much.

>mfw a translation uses a vocabulary above early teenage level and people always go apeshit.

>American penis analogy

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The most "problematic" aspects of those games isn't the writing, it's the sexualized character designs. So unless he also works as a modeller and alters the original models, I couldn't care less.

If you want the original writing go read it in it's intended language

If the author approves changing some of the original intent in the writing that could sound better in translation then there is no issue. More companies are closely working with translation studios these days for that reason.

There's nothing wrong with replacing some dead air with dialogue just because you pretend that you knew what the author intended.

It's a dumb question, but ignoring the especially dumb part with リン, リィン is like the start of reincarnation, while リーン is more like lean. It's just a pronunciation difference, while also adding more of an exotic flavor.

fuck off tranny

(((Ben Bateman)))

You literally just said in your post they change content to better suit another culture, you goddamn retard. What's the point of consuming works from foreign countries if they're sanitized to scrub away any traces of that other culture?

I'm glad they fired that bitch

I'd rather it sound a bit awkward than be flat out wrong.

Kana is woefully limited as a way of conveying foreign sounds, I once had to figure out a name that seemed utterly nonsensical at first, until we through brute force managed to pin it down as an arabic name.

Localization is fine modifying whatever they need to in order to seek understanding from an audience that clearly doesn't comprehend the original language. Does that suck, and can that, at times, actively hurt the narrative and original author message? Yes. But that is localization, it is flawed by design. In the first place, translation is the death of source. This is not a new concept, people are aware of it. If you read Shakespeare in any language other than English, you're not reading Shakespeare; You're reading the translator's words on Shakespeare.
As with anything though, there are good and bad translators and localizers. Some people can mask holes a lot better than others, but holes are there and will always be. Provided you don't know Japanese and can't read the original text, flawed by design is the best thing you will ever get, so either do something to remedy your lack of resources or stop crying about it.

On a related note, anyone asking for "literal 1:1 always" has absolute no clue they're asking for the worst thing they could ever get.

Because it doesn't work to convey the work itself sometimes?

Some things that pass as cool in Japan don't in America, so a cool character comes off as a dork, is that the author's intent? or is changing them to be in line with American cool the author's intent?

Because if we break it down to it's fundamental level the author wants you to think this guy is cool.

Are you fucking stupid?
The "traces of the other culture" are details about the story, the societal issues tackled in the matter, the morals of the story, its views on whatever, so on and so forth, which does NOT INCLUDE dumb shit like translating idioms literally word for word because "t-t-the culture!!!"

You are an auteur, faggot. You are just a translator whose name nobody will remember except to curse your shitty edits.

I don't give a shit what the receiving country's culture is, you don't fuck with the original work outside of translation. If someone writes a high-level maths textbook, you also wouldn't dumb it down because some people might not get it.

see these

nobody expects translations to be word for word
they just don't want "Hello, I really like videogames." to turn into "WOW, IT'S VIDEOGAMES ALL THE WAY FOR ME BROSKI, WANNA GO TO MY PLACE AND DAB ON SOME HATERS IN FORTNITE"

Idioms are very much part of a culture. I think it's pretty fun to learn foreign idioms and sort of work backwards to realize what they mean. It's like a fun tiny puzzle in a sentence.

>Comparing fiction to none fiction

Are you actually brain dead?

ace attorney would be borderline unenjoyable if they didn't localize it the way they did

>I think it's pretty fun to learn foreign idioms and sort of work backwards to realize what they mean.
That's great dude, feel free to do it on your own time. Expecting a translation to be an edutainment product is just absurd.

I don't want to eat a fucking hamburger

This is the most mind-boggling thing about all of this

> Figuring things out is edutainment

I guess you want games to spoonfood you every mechanic, interaction, and story element too?

A translation's only job is to translate. The translater can keep his own ideas/views/cancer out of it.

I don't think that we can equate "not sycophantically worshipping it" to "hate" having criticisms of a thing doesn't mean you hate it.

>999 and zero escape separately
Toplel

This. I'm a native Spanish speaker myself and at times it can be extremely bothersome to try to translate English into Spanish. It's been over a decade since I write in English, but I'm pretty sure people start by "translating" their thoughts into English first, whereas for me it already comes naturally, and thus I avoid translating Spanish expressions and instead use English expressions that convey the same idea.

Ultimately that's what's important: to convey the idea, not the text word for word, because many times that's simply impossible. I believe that's what people actually mean when they say they want 1:1 translations.

For instance, I've never, ever, heard someone in Spanish mention another person's name when expressing pity, or whatever you can call that sentiment that makes Japs say stuff like the OP original Japanese is saying. In Latin America the dub still makes the characters say it
>Goku...
But it is very unnatural to anyone but people used to watching anime.

That's great, dude. Here, knock yourself out.

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so if you like something about a game, and dislike that it's being changed, you should just buckle up for it & find something else that has that thing you like rather than asking for it to not be changed?

Do you know how assbackwards that is?

>For the US release of Panty Raider 3D we decided to remove the FPS sections of the game
>dude wtf I liked the FPS sections of Panty Raider 2
>lol if you want FPS sections just go somewhere else, don't expect them in this game that originally had them

But in your example the story would be being hidden by some random puzzle rather than being clear.

Why do you think this is a good way for things to be translated?

>A translation's only job is to translate.
Ask any translator and they'd know that it's not.
Hard mode: a proper translator, not some assmad weeb

>you wont understand anything unless we change every mention of riceballs to hamburgers

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>so if you like something about a game, and dislike that it's being changed, you should just buckle up for it & find something else that has that thing you like rather than asking for it to not be changed?
What's bizarre is that you're now getting into fucking censorship instead of translation issues, but yeah, you should just shut the fuck up. Did all the whining get any of the removed touching modes reimplemented in games on Sony platforms? No? Then why are you still whining? You're fighting a battle that can't be won.

If this upsets you, if you want to play the FPS segments that badly, just learn Japanese. You aren't somehow entitled to the "full" version of something, what the fuck do you do if the licence holder just says "nah, I don't think this has an audience in the west" and refuses any offers for translations?

You do realise a lot of the time those weirder changes come from the JP side because they actually get really concerned about that.

I know a guy who translated a game and the devs were like "why are you keeping the riceballs as riceballs? shouldn't you think of something else?"

Oh yeah you know a guy

It doesn't matter even if it came down from the pope himself.

So what does the first panal say?

This kind of shit is well documented though, JP mandating or requesting weird shit.

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Why would doughnuts be hamburgers, user?

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The literature in which Brutus is featured is universally known. Unless you think they use names like LaPlace's demon just because it sounds cool. You must live in a bubble.

I think it's just "[NAME]..."

The brainlet is strong in this one

>"Mi hija aprendió un lenguaje extraño en la escuela... Le dice "villero".
>"Eh loco, qué hacés en mi rancho gato? Te hice una pregunta, wacho."

Do you not know what "translate" means?

>Did all the whining get any of the removed touching modes reimplemented in games on Sony platforms?
idk, but it did show people that some people don't like localization fucking with parts of the original product, and has made some devs reconsider their localizations

>What's bizarre is that you're now getting into fucking censorship instead of translation issues
not really, I just put it in an alternate scenario where the same thing happens.
You have a game that has a thing, the localization team removes said thing and then you say "WELL GO FIND THAT THING ELSEWHERE"
it makes no sense, because it was already in it at the start

So you want everything to be spoonfed to you and to require no thinking on your own part? Doesn't sound like a good way for things to be translated.

Rean...

A translation translates, done.

kek
seething

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Rean... haha...

Rean...

Seething NISAkek

jesus christ
I did not need to see this sentence with my poor naked eyes, user.

Yup...that’s him alright...

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nice work

Embrace the superior Argentine translations, user.
>Bolude...

Haha... So this is the "translation" that Hatsuu wanted to be credited for, as expected of her...

Yes? What you think is translation isn't what translation means.

Aha...it can’t be helped...
.......................

Haha... classic Rean...

If the only way the reader has to know about these subtle character dynamics is through the use of honorifics, then nothing of value is lost by removing them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is honestly delusional.

Not to mention that's when localization kicks in and you add other ways so the reader understands these dynamics, if they are absolutely crucial to the story.

they get paid by words

>entire game translations with fucking villero dialect
please no, I never even imagined such horror could exist

Haha...he just has that effect...

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As somebody who actually studies translation for a living it never stops being entertaining how fucking stupid Yea Forums is in this area. Don't get me wrong OP is trash and so is much of game translation but you're also pants on head retarded if you think 1:1 translation is
a) possible
b) desirable
You don't go as far as jelly donuts but translation is about meaning not about words. Idioms are a perfect example of this.

>Jajaja. Mientras ustedes aborteras no se pongan en bolas no tengo problema en ayudarlas a estudiar.

you're just a NORMIE if you're not okay with japanese idioms being in japanese games

In that particular case it is necessary, the closest thing to blacks we have in Argentina are villeros. An example of why localization is necessary some times.

That said, we consume so many Mexican dubs, and Spanish writing is usually fairly similar to "neutral" Mexican that we don't really need a translation to cater to us.

I did find the Pokémon translations fairly annoying when I was younger, though...
>"Tío!"

>clueless westerners needing ***relatable*** translations

>experiencing and learning about other cultural norms is bad
All of you faggots are the exact type to say more refugees aren't you

>I know a guy

Sure you do

>relatable translations
MOVIE SUBTITLES DON'T DO THIS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS THE SOURCE MEANING
If it is something that needs further explaining, like most fansubs, it is explained further.
>relatable idioms
is just laziness to convey an accurate scene/enlighten on some cultural differences

All of you fags need to get out of translations and let it be handled by people who actually want audiences to understand this shit

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A good translation inevitably needs good localization.

>Hmmmm you're not happy with this fantasist rewrite localization? Well let me tell that machine literal translation are bad!
retard

What you think translation means isn't what it means. Some opinionated translator taking it upon himself to censor and/or insert his own ideas into someone's else's work should be shot.

It's not about rewriting and making things relatable you morons. It's about not sounding like shit. If 1:1 translation was desirable Washburn's Tale of Genji would be lauded as the perfect translation rather than the clunky clusterfuck that it is. Meanwhile Waley's Tale of Genji is still lauded as the definitive translation for many people a century later despite gigantic creative liberties because Waley's Chinese and Japanese was so phenomenal that he was able to replicate much of the poetic and flowery feeling of Murasaki Shikibu's original writing style.

No, you're just retarded. Look up translation and how it's actually done, maybe you'll learn.

This thread reminds me of this particular example. Anons went on and on about how it was "literally untranslatable", and yet I posted
>Uwa ha ha ha ha!
>This treasure is now property of the great Siegfried!
>Adiós, amigos!
Which got all the important bits across. The truth is you need someone who is very proficient in the language to explain to another person (the translator) all the important bits of the language that need to be translated. In this case:
>The laugh at the beginning
>How highly does Siegfried thinks of himself
>The Spanish bit at the end that needs no retranslation or localization

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haha thats our xseed....

movie subtitles do do this, actually

Shut the fuck up hack

Have sex brainlet-chan.

An inability to detect when meaning is not absolutely literal is the hallmark symptom of autism.

This thread is full of retards that like 仕方ない translated as "It cannot be helped"

> Some opinionated translator taking it upon himself to censor and/or insert his own ideas into someone's else's work should be shot.

Why do retards like this get the idea that people are asking for nonsensical 1:1 translation?

it depends on if it is a low brow movie or an artsy movie.
Artsy movies never change meanings so suit the native reader.

Being an apologist for BAD subs means you consider yourself a GRUG

Because there's literally people ITT and across the internet who are saying that's the correct way to translate something and praising garbage translation like Persona

I pretty much exclusively watch 'artsy' asian films, and frankly i take whatever fucking subs i can get so long as they're not like pic related, which admittedly didn't matter so much since its a trashy as fuck movie and some garbled subs don't take away from anything.

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Nigger we watch fansubs here on Yea Forums and often deal with these literal translations
>relatable idioms
are cringeshit and disrespectful

There's a long standing joke in the fansub community of replacing itadakimasu with rub a dub dub thanks for the grub, it's specifically to make fun of you fags

Pic related, you earned it

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>don't go as far as jelly donuts
>it's not about being relatable!
By saying "don't go as far as jelly donuts" you're implying you want to change things, but not to that extent. Yet you say "it's about meaning" which would mean you would not change jelly donuts whatsoever. So which is it - you can't even be consistent in English, why would I trust you with translation?

>we

And there's a century of professional translators who have worked directly with the likes of Mishima, Soseki and Tanizaki to create translations that preserve the spirit and voice of the author over 1:1 translation but yeah let's take the words of fucking fansubs. Even Tomato understands this and all of Yea Forums nuts to his Mother 3 translation.

your spicy translation suck buddy.

i nut to your mother

back 2 reddit u nigger

Back to school you actual nigger.

your wrong m8, especially nips, they have no idea how english really sounds despite it being compulsory to ESL, this is why the vast majority of engrish in anime and japanese tv is so terrible

The idea of "replicating the spirit" of anything is cancerous, I've read so many different interpretations of War and Peace and you can REALLY tell when the translator is aids because it just sounds dumber and lazier

You are DEAD WRONG about all this and you should really reflect on your life to see where you went wrong

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dabbed on nigger, back to your fagzone

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The problem is it's a fine balance. People who think 1:1 translation is a good thing miss the way it dehumanizes characters. Even outside the cultural differences, the grammatical structure of Japanese translates out awkward as fuck if you go the dictionary translation route and you end up losing the personality of the prose and the dialogue. Jelly donut is bad because they ignored what was being presented on screen and it's completely nonsensical even for American lardasses. But also because of scale. Had Brock not had an onigiri in his hand, saying something about stopping for sandwiches for example COULD have been a way to convey to a western culture that they were having picnic/finger food. But a rice ball isn't too difficult of a concept for foreigners to understand and that's what I meant about scale and balance.

Well you'd shoot every translator in the world.

Using terms you don't know the meaning for and then throwing a tantrum when people take them for what they are is the hallmark symptom of retardation. Honestly though, what else can I expect out of the crowd who depends on translations to play their games but dedicate their energy and time towards whining and throwing fits instead of learning the language? Not much, if anything at all.

Name 3 Japanese idioms you've picked up from "literal" translations.

And my point is simply the world in its entirety disagrees with you. I absolutely agree that some authors take over and make it their story in their words which is why I said before that it's a fine balance. Reading in translation is a fundamentally flawed endeavor but literature, film, video games and the like are not college essays. They're not meant to be read and experienced in a textbook like fashion. I'm not saying that writing subtext and flavor where it doesn't exist is appropriate. But what I am saying is that a good translator can understand context. And so 大きい doesn't always just mean "big" when the English language has 50 different ways to convey how large something is.

Let me just say what every reasonable person is thinking.
>Americanization of original script using more familiar vernacular etc.
>okay, fine, whatever I guess
>Changing the tone, meaning, or injecting sociopolitical themes where they weren't before
>not okay, this is stupid
Glad we had this talk. I'll be having a meet and greet out in the lobby if you want to offer your wives to me. If you somehow disagree, you need to leave immediately.

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If only they would. The only people more detestable than EOPs are the shadow puppeteers standing behind them in Plato's cave.

If you translate, all you are doing is wilfully keeping people in the dark. You aren't providing a "service", you are simply trying to take credit for the work of others.

When the EOPs gasp and exclaim about how amazing the fox looks on the wall in front of them, this is because they have never seen a real fox. By providing an illusion of a fox, you are sustaining the unhealthy mindset of EOPs everywhere, keeping them transfixed on what should have been just a blank wall with no interest.

No, I wouldn't. Looking back, I ommitted something important, which I think should clear our misunderstanding up:

A translator is meant to convey what the original works wants to convey. That might mean changing sentence order so as to make it recognizable as English. What it should not include is the translator inserting his POLITICAL ideas and POLITICAL stances into a translation. A translator's job should not be to alter the original work beyond making it legible to someone who is not natively [original work's language].

Literal translations with * explanations, like we have in the fansub community, is all that is needed and is the best case scenario.

You are just too used to an inferior and archaic idea. Detach yourself from the mindset that "i have to be right" and realize there are better alternatives.

This guy gets it. Clumsy one to one ratio translation is often just as shitty as had translators rewriting scenes to fit their own agenda. Both ways you're not getting the authors message the way it was meant to be experienced. Translation of entertainment needs to be entertaining. Hence localization. If you really cared about the meaning and the authors message you'd learn the language and play it how it was meant to be experienced.

> Surrounded on four sides by the songs of Chu
> Trying to apply eye drops from the 2nd floor.
> Good medicine tastes bitter.

>like we have in the fansub community,
The dead one, you mean? The one that was filled with mistranslations because basically every translator was just some college kid? The one where TL notes were used as a way to avoid actually doing their jobs?

What's funny is that you don't see the irony. You think Japanese fansub works were somehow the pinnacle of translation. It'd be like me lamenting the fucking age of softsubs, why can't we go back to those beautiful, blocky, piss yellow hardsubs overlaid on 4th generation VHS tapes?

I've translated a hentai doujin that is based on a game, and whenever it fit, I made sure to go for a word that is also the name of a skill ingame even though the Japanese author did not do this at all. Let's say "clash" is the name of a skill from the game, and the author says "confront", so when translating I swapped it for clash then. I've got literally 0 complaints and I've had positive comments on it, including from people who know Japanese and could read the original. I'm sure you autists would rain shit on me for it though.

>the stake that sticks up gets hammered down
>moshi wake gozaimasen
>sessha

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>thinking all fansubs were hadena
lmao, accept you are antiquated

There's merit to appendices and footnotes for sure but you also have to recognize that in those two it's just a translator telling you how things are. That's helpful for things like Tale of Genji where you need immense amounts of contextual background to understand what's going on but it's another scalability issue. 仕方ない was mentioned earlier. Translating that as "It cannot be helped" and then putting a "*Japanese people often say this in everyday conversation" is awkward and detracts from the conversation. My point so far has been that there are ways to localize this phrase to make it sound more natural to the English speaker while maintaining the meaning behind it. That's what I think makes a good translator. Someone who understands the structural foundation well enough to translate with their reader in mind so that you get the same pleasing entertainment value in localization without losing the heart of the original.

Because they were scared the wouldn't get paid if half the lines in the script are "..." and "Rean..." as they are in the original. Japanese is just a shit language desu

>the stake that sticks up gets hammered down
I didn't even know that was a Japanese saying until now.

They're pretty big on the whole "don't stand out" thing. People with different hair color can make them nervous.

"It cannot be helped" doesn't sound strange at all, are you not even an english speaker??
Who is it making it sound more natural to?
Anyone invested in any type of foreign culture gets used to slight turns of phrases, so you are saying all translations should reflect some lowest common denominator where it's their first exposure to said culture?

Most fansubs no longer explain such basic phrases because the community understands the vast majority of common household japanese phrases and sayings.
The idea that you need to make everything completely accessible to an unfamiliar initiate with autism issues is just wrong, since the anime community has a lot of autistic folks.

Your line of thinking does not teach or educate the reader on culture, they are merely meat with eyes set to consume something with no thoughts thereafter.
Like I said, you need to really reflect WHY you believe in this so strongly, because you only make the case that people are dumb and everything should be dumbed down for them.

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A little harsh but you actually sort of touch on why it's difficult for a language like Japanese to be translated into English. English is a mongrel language which means you have a dozen different ways to say the same thing. The west is also an individualistic culture. One of the most interesting conversations I've had with a Japanese teacher shed a lot of light on why westerners are often seen as rude and forward. Pauses are an intentional and natural part of Japanese language. But in the west we're not as big a fan of silence and often you're meant to reply immediately to show you're engaged in the conversation. Hispanic cultures even take this a step further where it's natural and expected that everyone is talking at once and over each other. This throws off the Japanese because that silent period is meant to show you were listening and are now thinking of how to respond. My sensei explained how the western flow of conversation appears to the Japanese that you were only thinking of what you wanted to say the whole time when you respond so suddenly and weren't giving your conversation partner the appropriate amount of attention.

>Le japan is so smart and deep.
>White people is stupid durrr.
>Mexican talk too fast waaahhhhh.
Here is your (you) you incel weeb.
Lmao. Thanks for making me laugh

Everybody else knew what he meant. It's only you who didn't.
If you think people like Montaigne or Dante were brainless plebs because they had to read Latin translations of Greek works then you truly have an IQ to match the gods. To be honest, if you're not consuming media from language sources you don't understand you're missing out. It's not something to be proud of.

It's stock translator-ese. The whole "the community gets it so we don't have to try" approach is kinda the problem that separates amateurish translation from good localization. I think the big misunderstanding here is people ITT thing I'm supporting huge Treehouse and NISA level leaps in creative liberties. I just wanted to make clear that 1:1 translation is lazy ay best and ruins great media at worst. I'm currently reading Mishima's Star that was just translated last month and that's a good example of something I'm on the fence about still. The book is about a movie star becoming disillusioned with his fame and the translator takes some huge creative liberties, even changing the main character's name, but he also backs it up with compelling reasons why. But it does rub me the wrong way a bit still. Here's a bit of the interview if you're interested
japantimes.co.jp/culture/2019/04/27/books/yukio-mishima-tries-personal-branding-rediscovered-star/

Baka user.

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Imbecile!
Translations are themselves new works, and they can be beautiful all on their own. Pope's translation of Homer and the King James translation of the Bible are the two most well-known English examples, but there's also Tolkien's Beowulf and Waley's Monkey. In truth, all good translators have skills to match the writer they're translating.
t. enlightened patrician who walks among the greats of history

I never made a quality judgment on any of them. Just that they're different. Half of my family are beans. I just thought it was an interesting anecdote of how things are lost in translation even in the flow of the way we speak. I know for the Mexican half of my family it would be awkward as fuck dealing with long pauses in conversation and they'd likely thing the person wasn't interested in talking.

I'd take subtlety over wall of text anyday

Idk if this is all sarcasm but I've actually always kinda liked this philosophy. It doesn't really apply to video games considering the translation field is populated by weebs on Genki but for the really good translators and translations like the ones you mentioned it's pretty fascinating to see someone with a masterful grasp of the English language replicate a story so well so that a new generation and demographic can experience it. It's always preferable to read the original if you can but I think there's a lot of merit in good translation as someone who's fascinated by language.

Entitlement.

They feel like they are policemen at an airport, checking for drugs and stuff.

It's not that Japanese is untranslatable. It's not that accurate translations are impossible. It's that translators are lazy. The truth is these shitty translations will continue happening because people who genuinely care about proper translations are a minority, and thus there's no need to cater to them.

>muh vidya writing

It's not like it's worth learning Japanese for the shit writing in video games anyway.

As a South American, you're wrong.

That's what hacks do. If you can't properly translate a sentence into English, then you need to take some extra lessons in both languages.

There is always a way, languages have infinite possibilities.

This is peak cuck mentality.

Back in the snes era we couldn't play a shit load of games. But fans accurately translated most games for us, for free, and a faithful translation. People like you is part of the reason videogames are garbage nowadays.

>Translating onii-chan as big brother
>Translating onii-sama as big brother
>Translating onii-san as big brother
>Translating onii as big brother
>Translating nii-san as big brother
>Translating nii-chan as big brother
>Translating nii-sama as big brother
>Translating nii as big brother
>Translating nii-nii as big brother
>Translating aniki as big brother

Attached: Onii-chan.jpg (727x1171, 197K)

This.

Holy based!

I'll always be on the side of "translate idioms literally". They're a big part of imagery, and hell, they're just interesting to learn. It's not like I'm gonna misunderstand what the Jew means when he says somebody "bit the dust".
KJV of the Bible is my main man advocating for literal translations, by the way. Even then, of course the translators put their own perspective on it -- the archaic language and translation of "qahal" as "congregation" instead of the hitherto mainstream-but-also-Catholic "church". But I'm not arguing for some mythical translation where the translator hasn't put their own spin on things -- I'm arguing for a translation which takes care to preserve both meaning and the specific word-choice of the author.
The thing is, when I said "new works", I really meant it. I wouldn't read Pope's translation if I wanted to read Homer -- I'd read it if I wanted to read Pope. I'd read Lattimore for Homer (and that is still Lattimore's work rather than Homer's, but it cuts a lot closer). So it won't be the original, but it will very much still be something worth reading.
>muh individualistic west vs. collectivistic east
based and 1980s sun-tzu-reading businessman pilled

Honorifics are retarded.

Lmao

Wish he still worked for them. We need more people like him.

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You're stupid and missing the point. Europeans and their low IQ

Based.

I'm trying to.

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No.

You're twisting God's words, that's evil. Stop spreading falsehoods. I tell you this as an atheist.

>nii-sama
what is this? informal polite?

Yea Forums is reddit nowadays.

This. It's insane. Why did he learn Japanese to begin with.

Nakama

Translation
"I love rice balls"
Localization
"I love jelly doughnuts"

But usually they don't. They just use machine translations that are re-written with decorative prose.

Seethe harder. You're the clown of the thread.

but he doesn't speak in third-person in japanese

Depends entirely on what is being translated. 'Accurate translation' isn't as simple as you make out either. If you're translating a poem do you translate as literally and 'accurate' as possible while losing out on style, metre ect? This doesn't even answer how certain styles simply do not translate into other languages or even when translating as literally as possible meaning can still be obscure. Sure this might apply more to literary works than the majority of fairly simple video game scripts, but translation really isn't clear cut and proper translations can have different priorities because you're generally always going to lose something in translation, the more so the more divergent the languages are and the relative complexity of what is being translated.

Lurk more. Horriblesubs isn't the only fansub.

All I ask for is that writers don't try to liberally rewrite shit for their own memes and humor. There are cases where localizations have breathed a lot of new life into games that were pretty straightforward otherwise, like FF7 despite Sony of America's lack of quality assurance on it, but no one wants context, removals or especially censorship, just as no one wants to hear Neps quote outdated memes ever again.

BASED!

Couldn't have written it better myself. It's so true. Every game that removes honorifics feels like something is missing in the way the character behaves.

Thank God for Japanese VA because then you can tell right away when the localization fuck up

now that i know some japanese the left makes makes sense, but i guess to some one with no knowledge both kinda don't make sense

Information value remains the same. What's the problem?

Nothing you said is true, you live in fantasy land.

Right version still looks fucking retarded for normalfags because west lost its boner for proper/polite ways of address someone in casual speech century ago.

JJAJA POR QUÉ?!?!?

>Some things that pass as cool in Japan don't in America
Yeah, and it would be nice to learn those things. Maybe they should put them in a video-game to let foreigners know about it?

Oh wait, because of retards like you I get American writing in a non-American game. Id I wanted American shit I would play American games.

I know a guy too.

His dad works for Nintendo.

>but he doesn't speak in third-person in japanese
And? From what I remember, the original Japanese uses "ore-sama" or something like that. There's no such thing in English. The point is that Siegfried thinks highly of himself, so that's what one has to get across, while taking as few liberties as possible.
>If you're translating a poem
Naw man, just talking videogames here. I'm not going to go into how to translate poems and such because by that point I think one might as well learn the original language before bitching about how accurate a poem is, because in a poem or a song, the words are everything. When I listen to a translated song as you would find in a Disney film in a foreign language, for instance, I treat each specific version as a standalone.

Just suspicion aside, I've come across that, now that I think about it. They really think a lot of their culture is exceptional to the point of being hard to understand when it just isn't. Like they make a big deal about foreigners going to Tokyo and being given some piece of promotional tat (like a tissue) and thinking it's a gift from a cute girl when...people do that everywhere.

This.
t. eternally arse-mad Brit

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>ore-sama
Yeah, not much you can do to convey this other than "the great siegfried" "the great me" or "ore-sama", the latter of which is really awkward to fit into a translated line, much more so than when characters directly call each other with honorifics.

You don't know what a translation is. You would Also never understand what it means until some foreigner starts trash talking you and changing your words to things you didn't mean because the foreigner felt the need to accommodate his audience. That's why he told the Thai police you love little girls, when you actually said you preferred young women.

Why not just learn the language?

The issue is that honorifics only make sense for Japanese people and those who feel how important they are, and when I say "feel" I do mean "feel" as opposed to "understand". It isn't enough to "understand" honorifics because it won't make the same impact as actually feeling them.

To rewrite this exchange I would need to know what is the guy supposed to be feeling at the bottom panel.

They want to sell weebshit to normalfags, that's why.

>Guilty Gear
>Trash
You can stop pretending you know what you're talking about zoomer.

Not related to the picture, but if a jap VA is saying "-san" then there's no reason why the english localized text should be saying "Mr. Miyagi". Just because westerners may not know the honorifics doesn't mean they can't catch on, humans are adaptive and people playing more obscure JRPGs probably aren't too braindead or know what they're in for.

So that's where that meme is from. Thanks for updating my journal Yea Forums, is a funny meme.

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he's part of the localization cartel, they hate that phrase for literally no reason. honorifics too.

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From the exchange it seems he wanted to be familiar with her, but still superior, she just put him right on her level which shocked him. I don't really think there is a proper way to express the sheer honorifics faggotry that japanese has.

Game companies should translate, not adapt. The dub mafia always use the strawman of 100% literal translation vs the fan fiction they shit out but that is clearly a false choice.

>I don't really think there is a proper way to express the sheer honorifics faggotry that japanese has.
This is what I really mean when I talk about "good translations require good localizations". This is a Japanese product for Japanese people. The moment you translate it, it stops being a Japanese product for Japanese people.

I'm not saying rice should be translate to "hamburger", but why keep honorifics when you are talking to people who have no fucking idea what those are and can't empathize with their importance? It makes characters look autistic.
>"oh no, he didn't say SAN!"

user what's with this weird falseflag? The bullshit on the left is real, actual evidence of "professional" localization being fucking gay, and the right is some weird shit that doesn't even appeal to my need to see these faggots suffer.

Fucking hell their whole language is retarded

How do people play this game without their brain frying from the absolute state of the writing? Do I need to give my brain a slow boil of seasonal anime over the course of a few years to get this game?

Japanese people ARE autistic. If you have to go that far, then you've lapsed from translating into ADAPTING. Without the san difference, Saki is just being an autist due to society and culture differences. In Japan, he's shocked that she's acting so close, in America, he's shocked that his new friend is calling him by his first name so quick because reasons???

thats fine though?
Cifer > Seifer
Japanese understand names differently; and as such names must be translated. What comes of as an exotic name in japan, would not work as an exotic name here for example.

Thats why Tina = Terra.
It's not that hard to understand, even for dumbasses

I was being facetious, buddy.

Besides, I already know Japanese.

>the great me

Please don't ever do this. It's so awkward.

Yeah, I agree. That's why I was perfectly fine with them going with "the great siegfried" in third person.

"I/Me, The great Siegfried" is the way it should be transalted

I think most Spanish speakers are aware of different dialects anyway and how everything is translated in "neutral" Spanish... Though to be honest I'd prefer if translations started using different dialects to convey tone.

A ton of movie subs have rewrites, though. Some idioms and jokes are impossible to translate 1:1.

nah, yours is just a baby language.

>only 1 set of characters
>no kanji
>no furigana
>can't even pull ancient readings out of your ass for more immersion

>only one "I"

you dont translate things word for word, you mongoloid, you translate the sentence
different languages have different sentence structures

>I'm not saying rice should be translate to "hamburger", but why keep honorifics when you are talking to people who have no fucking idea what those are

people arent that dumb and they actually want to learn new stuff and hear new things. nobody wants to see and hear what he already knows.

Having a concise language is a plus. Nobody wants retarded arbitrarily convoluted shit. That being said I'm not saying English is good either.

>>no kanji
street signs are basically kanji

English is based. Spanish is based as well. The only cool thing Japanese has going for it is the aspect of moonrunes, which can lead to very creepy imagery like pic related.

Also mad props to anyone who can explain to me why Japanese like using writing like so in films. You don't see western films having writing occupy an entire frame all by itself.

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>accepting revisionism because you don't like the host country
good goy. everything should be filtered through the lenses of liberalism

>two characters talking about something
>Rean interjects with a "Haha" out of nowhere

kanji allow for faster reading and hiragana tell you the exact pronounciation of a word. english and spanish text do not.

the word "worcester" for example doesnt tell you how its pronounced and you have to read and write 9 symbols while in kanji it could be 1 symbol.

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>It's not something to be proud of.
That I don't spend my time or energy whining about how bad a translation is? Wouldn't say proud, just relieved I'm not retarded to such an extreme point. If you don't want to learn the language there's nothing wrong with that, but when you choose to not learn and at the same time choose to whine all day long about it, then you're behaving like a literal child.

I'm not sure about you, but since I'm a native Spanish speaker I never had any trouble pronounciating Spanish words.

Another bonus of Spanish is that weebs are able to pronounce Japanese words much more easily than Americans.

only the right one is interesting to read and will get people to care about your shit, deal with it.

I'd like to use the fact you just all mistook a girl for a guy to point out that it's hard to translate how Japanese people refer to themselves. You know the whole Boku, Ore, Watashi and so on. While she actually says watashi there and that could be used by a girl or a boy if she had used boku or ore then it would imply more of a boy. This is the issue behind .

Spanish does indeed tell you how to pronounce a word, at least if whoever's writing uses proper grammar. There are way less grammatical exceptions in Spanish than in English and accent rules are nearly universal.

Justify keeping honorifics while not keeping all the different forms of "I".

How is this conveying the meaning?

Attached: treehouse5.png (1418x1238, 232K)

you touch your mom at night

Western languages aren't nearly analytical enough to make use of syllabaries and hieroglyphs. Look at all the problems they pose in Middle Eastern languages wh spl thr wrds lk ths.

youtu.be/yF2n186o_b0?t=94
Kinda doesn't help that this is Japanese voices with the english. Highlighted at the most notable point.

English is notoriously obnoxious and incredibly tight-assed on how grammar, pronunciation and other aspects work. Is it any wonder that other languages don't translate to English all that well?

The problem is that in Japanese language it's totally normal and accepted that someone repeatedly says something like "user-kun..." and repeats this every 2-3 sentences. While in Japan that's "normal" and how people do act, in English it just sounds like pure and utter CRINGE.

"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."
"user-kun..."
"Blablabla."
"Cleclecle."

Tired of it yet?

Fixed.

Attached: fix.png (458x1328, 893K)

No. They're diet Eskimos.

It's funny fuck off.

The different forms of I don't matter nearly as much.

Are you not tired of being a retard?

>The different forms of I don't matter nearly as much.
Honorifics matter far less, though. The only people who think honorifics carry some mystical oriental meaning are pre-N5 weebs.

You can't just post this bullshit headcannon when you're speaking to someone who actually knows Japanese buddy. Come on, why is "boku" unacceptable in a translation but Yui-chan-san is somehow vital to the plot?

>schizo characters

Do you not know what honorifics are used for?

Very niche and always translated during the few times it's important.

not him but honorifics can easily be translated through tone in speech

I see, you don't know shit.

Pronouns are incredibly difficult to portray in English as we don't have them like Japan does. Honorifics can be easily maintained without causing any damage to sentence structure or flow, pronouns cannot and require translation notes along with representing them in how the character speaks. To get the most out of a story there is a requirement to invest yourself and meet the translator halfway.

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>"I change the original dialogue because it's more funny to me because I'm so random XD"
This is why everybody who works at treehouse and Nintenfags need to die.

Not in text.

Blatantly wrong.

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>Removed honorifics
Try again.

Italians are the niggers of Europe and you've proven this once again. Fucking idiot.

Because you can convey they type of I through context. Such as "I, god king emperor, Zargamondu." Instead of, "I am god king emperor Zargamandu." when translating 我が. You can't convey sawa-chan-sensei through context.

The question I have to ask is: why are honorifics so important to keep when literally most language don't have honorifics of any sort, and have done well without them?

It's so retarded.

Trails in the Sky was completely assraped by the editor. Every other line is legitimate fanfic with added character traits and dialog that doesn't exist in the original script and can in no way be interpreted or inferred as original intent.

Just watch people cry about these characters behaving "differently" in the NISA localization of CS3 and 4 and blaming them because they've been fed garbage for a decade.

>Kinda fucked up they completely changed this line and added a fucking paragraph out of nowhere
>FUCK YOU WHAT DO YOU WANT 1:1 TRANSLATION YOU WEEB-SAN-KOON
Why is it localizer dick suckers instantly sperg out and scream that all changes have to be made and theres literally no middle ground?

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Nope, kill yourself weeb.

>there's localization and then there's working designs and xseed
Really makes you think.

>>Pronouns are incredibly difficult to portray in English as we don't have them like Japan does.
If weebs can pick up honorifics, surely you can pick up pronouns.

I love how your example is some N4 reading Naruto. It's just the perfect shitstorm of idiocy, the blind leading the fucking blind.

Because you're translating from a language that does have them where they play a significant part in that culture. This should be obvious.

>If weebs can pick up honorifics, surely you can pick up pronouns.
Good job ignoring what was said about pronouns being significantly more unwieldy.
>I love how your example is some N4 reading Naruto.
>It's Naruto so I can laugh it off!
Try arguing against what he's actually saying instead of his choice of example work.

>Because you can convey they type of I through context.
>You can't convey sawa-chan-sensei through context.
Look at this dude blatantly contradict himself within 2 sentences. Absolutely fascinating. X is Y, but X is acceptable and Y is unacceptable.

then I guess some stuff is just gonna be lost in translation, whoops. you can't expect to make a translation that's easily readable for the masses while keeping all of the tiny intricacies in japanese culture

>Kanji is better than English and Spanish text
>gives one example of how English and Spanish doesn't tell you how to pronounce
You do realize your example can be said to handful of words, but can be applied to 80% of Kanjis. hell the post you replied to has "一言”, which uses most basic Kanjis but cant even "guess" how to read it. Kanji is retarded.

You can. Honorifics really aren't that complicated.

>Because you're translating from a language that does have them where they play a significant part in that culture. This should be obvious.
And I'm translating the work into a completely different language for a completely different culture where said honorifics do not exist. This should be obvious.

I'm sorry, but all that Naruto shit goes into the garbage the minute we translate it for English-speaking audiences. And nothing of value is lost if the characterization amounts to what suffix they assign to character names.

Every language has extra information that doesn't translate.
jij vs. u
tu vs. vous
du vs. Sie
you vs. you
Even compared to its closest sister languages English lost its politeness markers.

Because X, Y, and Z are all different things. You should stop comparing apples to oranges.

>you can't expect to make a translation that's easily readable for the masses while keeping all of the tiny intricacies in japanese culture
That's obvious, the masses are perfectly happy with Treehouse's version of Fire Emblem Fates. Anyone who actually cares about translation quality needs to be invested enough to learn a little about the culture that produced the media they're experiencing.

>Try arguing against what he's actually saying
I mean, there's nothing to argue against. It's just the rantings of an idiot.

Any argument you make in favor of honorifics can also be made in favor of "o-baka-san-tachi". Why is one acceptable to you, and the other not?

Localization should ideally balance authenticity wih clarity.
The last couple Yakuza games do an excellent job at this. When people talk it should sound natural in English, while still keeping the original meaning. It's why shit like
>it can't be helped
is a complete joke. It's just one of many examples of why a literal translation negatively impacts the quality of the writing and characterization.

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joe football, guy who watches anime on netflix, is not gonna bother to learn about honorifics nor does it really matter, it'll probably be weird to him anyway

>Anyone who actually cares about translation quality needs to be invested enough to learn a little about the culture that produced the media they're experiencing.
And such an education starts and ends with learning Japanese. Pretending to be higher on the weeb scale because you've looked up the Taika reforms on Wikipedia is just insanity. You're consuming the exact same garbage as a 12 year old streaming on CR.

in spanish text an entire symbol "h" is not pronounced at all and letters are differently pronounced based on their neighbouring letters.

as spanish speakers you may not notice that since youve memorized it alreaqdy but the text itself does indeed not tell you its pronounciation, you need to know additional rules for that.

I'm sure he'll manage.

See, now you're not arguing for a faithful translation, you're arguing for localisation. You've thrown out any pretext of translation quality in favour of changing shit to suit stupid Americans. Enjoy your jelly doughnuts.

>Any argument you make in favor of honorifics can also be made in favor of "o-baka-san-tachi". Why is one acceptable to you, and the other not?
There is absolutely nothing lost by translating o-baka-san-tachi as "fools". Even TV-Nihon has realised this, so why use it as an argument?

>Le japan is so smart and deep.
>White people is stupid durrr.
>Mexican talk too fast waaahhhhh.
Literally all true

>The last couple Yakuza games do an excellent job at this.
Yakuza 0 retains honorifics but changes honorifics into other honorifics when the translators feel like it. It's an improvement over the previous games but it still has a long way to go.

Joe Football should not be the target audience.

literally nobody can tell me what is wrong with >it can't be helped.

It embodies the mindset of japanese people perfectly.

kanji are like traffic signs, imagine traffic signs being written text instead of symbols and you will know why kanji are superior when it comes to reading.

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This is true, even in Spanish we still have "politeness markers" in some dialects.

Argentina uses majorly vos, which is also used sometimes in Colombia, but where argies use it for everyone, in Colombia it's a far more informal and maybe intimate way of speaking compared to tú or usted. I guess it's somewhat analogous to using -chan and -san. México uses mostly tú and Spain uses a weird mix with their vosotros.

It's not a matter of language but of culture.
It's why you often see translators keep -sans and senpais and such in a series that is explicitly set in Japan but if it's not or is set in fantasyland they leave them out, even if they were present in the Nip text.

"It can't be helped" is a fucking english expression you retard.

Why are ESLs so bad at English?

"It can't be helped" as an English expression is used in a completely different context and setting. It is utterly unacceptable 99.9% of the time it's used in "translations".

There's nothing wrong with the phrase 'shou/shikata ga nai', like you say it is very important to the culture of Japan.
The point is that when translating it literally it becomes 'it can't be helped' which people rarely say at all times in English when they want to express a similar sentiment.
Expressing the same sentiment in a variety of more natural sounding ways is localization, and good localization only serves to make the dialogue flow more naturally.

>Kanji are like fucked up graffiti
fixed that for you

>kanji allow for faster reading and hiragana tell you the exact pronounciation of a word. english and spanish text do not.
The problem is that the kanji doesn't give you the hiragana and when you see kanji alone there is nothing to indicate what the reading is, first because you need to already know how the kanji is read and second because almost every kanji has multiple different readings that could be used. And then the opposite applies to kana where when knowing how a word is read you have no way to know for sure what the kanji is. In both cases it needs to be looked up and confirmed instead of understood intuitively.

>these kinds of changes are inconsequential to the experience overall.
>Breath of the Wild had all its quests rewritten from Link's first person perspective to a detached third person point of view, stripping him of almost all personality
No

gas Treehouse still btw before they hire more prostitutes advocating for CP

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Yes but it is somewhat unnatural sounding when used with the same intent and intense frequency as the Japanese 'shou ga nai'.
The fact of the matter is that there are quite a few phrases that are used repetitively in Japanese and factors like inflection and context matter a huge amount in determining the difference in various usages of the same phrase.
Whereas in English the vocabulary tends to be a bit more flexible. My point is that 'It can't be helped' can be expressed in various different ways depending on formality and tone of the speaker without using those exact words every single time.
Also

>It's why you often see translators keep -sans and senpais and such in a series that is explicitly set in Japan but if it's not or is set in fantasyland they leave them out, even if they were present in the Nip text.
That's a poor mentality to have too since Japs always bleed their culture into their works no matter where it's set. The House in Fata Morgana is one of the most westernised works I've seen from them but even that had a moment where a character is described as puffing out their cheeks to pretend to be upset. Or there's Banana Fish which was just Japanese as fuck despite the American setting, and the honorifics were primarily only used between Japanese characters talking to each other but got excised by the localisers anyway.

>as spanish speakers you may not notice that since youve memorized it alreaqdy but the text itself does indeed not tell you its pronounciation, you need to know additional rules for that.
No language tells you its pronunciation, for that matter. First you need to be told the rules, such as what each symbol sounds like. What's important is that once you know the rules, you can pronounce any word thrown your way, assuming you are being asked "what the Spanish pronunciation" would be.

Of course, if you throw an English word at a Spanish speaker, he will pronounce it as if it was a Spanish word. Same with a French word. What's important is that two, three, twenty or forty native Spanish speakers will all pronounce these foreign words the same way.
>See, now you're not arguing for a faithful translation, you're arguing for localisation
I'm all in for localization, I've said it a few times already: a good translation requires a good localization.
>You've thrown out any pretext of translation quality
The way I see it your "faithful translations" are low quality because they are a weird step child between a proper localization and simply learning the original language.
>in favour of changing shit to suit stupid Americans
I wouldn't be surprised if you were an American yourself. One way or another: no, America isn't the only country in the world, and what I said applies to localize any language into any other language, be it Japanese to English, English to Spanish, etc.

>first because you need to already know how the kanji is read
but thats the same with english words.

when you see "londonderry" or "london" you have no fucking idea how its supposed to be pronounced.

london for example is pronounced "lunden" the text itself is useless

Traffic signs are meant to be immediately identifiable for their intended audience at all points, ambiguity in any way leads to severe consequences.
Kanji, particularly in names, is too fluid to be comparable.

>You dont understand translations aren't always 1-1
Well that makes sense I can underst
>So thats why he had to change literally every characters name
There will never be an acceptable reason to change a characters name barring incredibly specific circumstances.
You dont get this shit in books, Gandalf and Aragorn weren't changed to Gregory and Aaron.

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>It's an "idiot sees the same phrase pop up many times and assumes this is a limitation of language and not a trait of bad writers and anime being adapted from shitty light novels" episode
If a writer is bad it's not the translator's job to fix that and make their writing more eloquent than it really is.

>defending "every word a letter" retardation

You're right, user. Pic related is 10/10 writing, this is exactly how human beings communicate. God forbid we lose the subtle nuance of the kid calling those women oneesan.

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In Argentina we use "usted" when talking politely, I believe "tú" is the equivalent of "vos", used by Spaniards. Which is where the verb "tutear" comes from, i.e. "treat me as "tú" (instead of "usted").

Fucking this. Competence seems to be a hard proposition to most.

Literal translation can be dumb:
>Don't come!
A translation with some finesse is always the best:
>Don't come any closer!
or
>Stay back!
A translation that capture the same spirit is ok but not great:
>I'm warning you to stay away!
Localization is fucking cancer:
>Ay yo famalam I love pickles! You ever stop and ponder pickles? Lets think about pickles right now! Man this is great! Having a new pickle pal is awesome!

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Except that English letters should be associated with kana and not kanji.
>london for example is pronounced "lunden" the text itself is useless
God damn you're retarded.

Pronunciation isn't an important facet of the majority of english. It's why dialectal english can vary wildly, and yet still all be both correct and comprehensible.
Worchestershire is wildly mispronounced by huge swaths of people, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact meaning, and only mildly impacts clarity.

Well all languages have rules. I think the point is that Spanish has very few grammatical exceptions when it comes to its rules of pronunciation, especially compared to English.

this is actually a good thing once you're fluid in japanese. for one it makes shit like puzzles actually fun to figure out, and I really appreciate how it's actually possible in japanese to create sentences that fucking hurt to read.

shit like broken robots spouting an nonsensical mix of hiragana, katakana and kanji is very unique and impossible to replicate in all western languages I know.

>it's a "retard thinks different languages all follow the same basic composition rules" episode
What is perfectly acceptable writing in Japanese is unacceptable in English. It's not because the writers are bad, it's because that's the way the language flows.

>I'm all in for localization, I've said it a few times already: a good translation requires a good localization.
Good translation and localisation are mutually exclusive as they have entirely different aims and target audiences.
>I wouldn't be surprised if you were an American yourself.
Please don't insult me. I'm an ausfag.

>hahaha. Solange jeder seine Kleidung anbehält, helfe ich euch beiden gerne beim lernen.

Reminder that you should learn Japanese and stop trusting """translators"""

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I once read a post where some turboweeb user who lived in a small town started using it irl all the time and then it spread to become a really common thing with people living there.

people only use 4000-6000 words user, its perfectly feasable to use 2000-3000 characters to display all those words.

its not so different from latin texts where every word has its own letter-combination that you have to learn.

Especially when the name has meaning in the story itself. Sylvia chose a feminine sounding name for a reason in game only to have it go back to a masculine sounding name in English.

They still allow for faster and easier reading. If I just see はんじょう then I'm not entirely sure what am I looking at. If I see 繁盛 I know exactly what it is. While you are right, and 盛 is read differently in 盛り and 全盛 for instance, so long as you actually know words, then the kanji only makes everything smoother and faster. It can also allow you to sometimes accurately read a word you've never even seen before.

>Localization is fucking cancer:
That isn't localization, though. That's "localization", i.e. what translators call their lazy attempts to pass something off as legit using the excuse of "the audience wouldn't get it otherwise".

Bad writers having small vocabularies and being overly repetitive isn't pleasant to read but it isn't in any way grammatically unacceptable or incomprehensible. Cliffy B's shitty book might be a chore to read but that doesn't mean it should be """improved""" if it was translated into another language.

>but thats the same with english words.
but you still can guess you fucking weeb, unlike kanji, you either know or dont. also the problems happens in like maybe more than 100 english words, where in Japanese, good luck memorizing more than 2000 kanji and their alternative readings.

Right, sorry, I only visited a while ago and don't know much about your culture.
Where I'm from in Colombia we use vos informally and tú when being polite (or for someone we want to be particularly polite with, I mostly use it with women and older people), while we almost never use usted because it's considered rude and impolite among our culture. I only use usted when mad, but I understand it's very common for other people to use it so I don't really get offended if people use it for me. That said, I find it amusing that people switch to tú whenever I use vos with them.

There is no reason to preserve "tachi" because tachi is not an honorific, it's denoting a group. But yes, the onee-san part should be preserved. Or you can be an idiot who has a child referring to a person completely unrelated to them as "big sister".

this is just how language works.

It's the same reason nobody will ever get rid of "should of" despite it being 100% incorrect and retarded. It's out there now and people will not stop using it.

It's not just about the stock phrases. Japanese as a language has the lowest information content per syllable of all the major languages, which means they spend a lot of time talking in circles and explaining shit other languages would convey through simple nuance. If you ignore this difference and translate it without taking some liberties, you will get characters who come across as autistic or flat out retarded.

Literally each line you typed in between the top and the bottom are examples of localization.
Please stop using localization as a catch-all term for every case of bad localization, it's the exact reason threads like these blow up into a shitstorm, I feel like half the people that think that "localization is fucking cancer" are referring to piss poor localization.

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>but you still can guess
Let's be fair here user, things like varied "c" and the "ph/f" are bafflingly nonsensical.

>Good translation and localisation are mutually exclusive as they have entirely different aims and target audiences.
That is true, but my opinion is that a good translation without localization is simply not a good translation. If you need to use language-specific terms and expressions, you have failed at properly translating the work.

>where in Japanese, good luck memorizing more than 2000 kanji and their alternative readings.
What a feat, it's not like you can do it in 3 months or something. Oh, wait, you can.

I get it, you're N5, you're mad that you have to learn all these characters so you quit, but just stop fucking posting.

It doesn't have the same meaning. It's like translating badass to warui oshiri. It might be literal but it's not necessarily correct. Obviously this is a stupid example and "It cannot be helped" is a bit more of a subtle difference but it definitely rings differently in intended meaning and "Weebs will just eventually understand" is a bad cop out when it's possible to translate it more accurately in meaning.

>for one it makes shit like puzzles actually fun to figure out, and I really appreciate how it's actually possible in japanese to create sentences that fucking hurt to read.
Your masochism doesn't make it any better.

I blame the brits for should of

>good luck memorizing more than 2000 kanji and their alternative readings.
im already at 400 active and 800 passive, its not so hard and easier than deciphering hiragana text

If you need to remove language-specific terms and expressions to appeal to a target audience who doesn't care enough to find out what they are, you are losing meaning. You are arguing in favour of changing "youkai" to "monster" because leaving it as youkai would require a minimal investment on the audience's part.

People say shou ga nai several times outside of fiction in Japan numbnuts. The point is that they don't have a single phrase beyond 'shou/shikata ga nai' that expresses the same sentiment, because that's how their language works.
English doesn't work that way, which is why if one wants to effectively translate something elegantly, you shouldn't go for the literal translation every time.

The bottom isn't localization. And I'ma blow your mind: Plenty of your favorite anime and games have done the exact shit you're whining about. If you want the exact meaning the author of your favorite shit intends, then learn the fucking language you brainlet retard.

RTK doesn't teach you Kanji.

Who blame the Brits when it's the fault of illiterate amerisharts?