There is nothing wrong with the Fire Emblem characters of Smash

Dropping into the thread to let you know you perfectly summed up my opinions. Nothing more to add.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Marth, Girl Marth, Fire Marth, Gay Marth, Strong Marth, Mage Marth, OR Dragon Marth!

lucina

Not much, except when people bitch about other people being clones and then state the FE characters deserve to be in regardless.

I don't know if i've ever seen that happen.

There are too many for how few games the series sells.

Robin is the cutest one.

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4 of them are related.

4? Who's the 4th?

Chrom is the descendant of Marth and Lucina is the daughter of him and Robin.

Lucina takes away everything fun from playing Marth and keeps everything annoying of playing against him. Chrom is similar to Roy in that way. I won't comment on the rest as characters other than generally fighting Robin/Corrin is boring since both characters tend to play extremely campy, but that isn't the fault of them being FE characters.

>Pairing Chrom with Robin
>Not using Male Robin for the bromance and pairing Chrom with the village maiden for laughs.

because of course, youre a fire emblem fan.

Because Corrin, despite having a unique moveset, adds nothing to the game. At least the clones are easy to make. Corrin is just a waste of dev time.

>The ones that fags on Yea Forums always whine about and want removed are the ones with unique movesets though.

Shut the fuck up you brainless irishman

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Lmao corrin is a great addition and he's fun to play

You DO want me in Smash to cleanse the swordie plague, right user?

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Banjo was a shit addition and hasn't been relevant for years. Conker is unironically more relevant

You can join if you take 5 FE characters out first

I do, but I'm a spearfag so I'd prefer Ephraim.

Lances > Swords, after all.

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Female Robin doesn't exist in the same universe as Male Robin. If Male Robin exists he's Chrom ultimate bro with their relationship constantly on the cusp of being gay, but any universe where Female Robin exists Chrom literally cannot resist it.
He will find her and he will claim her, nothing in that world could stop his cock.

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Chrom can go and Corrin can go too because I hate her stupid baby grandma face.

>Lucina
>Chrom
>Roy
>Corrin
>Ike
They're out and he's in. Thoughts?
Ephraim's cool but I think it'd be hard to come up with a moveset for him that isn't made up

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>female robin
>female corrin
lmao

Corrin and Robin are fine

The rest are just too good for too little effort.

Nair/Fair spam is safe, strong, fast, and has giant hitboxes.

Swords carry bad players.

I never played Banjo and don't care about his addition, but smash reps don't just have to be about relevancy. In fact it's almost nicer when it's not about that because if feels less like an ad for something new they want you to buy, which most newcomers usually are.

Marth is legit middling as a character and gets outranged by a lot of characters without swords. I agree with the rest.

grrrr i hate fire emblem characters even if most of them have unique movesets and different play styles but grrrrrrr i hate them all!!!! We need different characters!!!

3 of them are just offshoots of Marth yet nobody minds characters that actually play literally the same with no differences at all as long as they don't take up a perceived "slot" (Koopalings, The Heroes). Put all the Marths under the same umbrella and things aren't as fucked as they otherwise look.

This, but unironically. Corrin's a shitter nobody wanted and people will defend their inclusion because their moveset is unique and Roy didn't need to be a semiclone of Marth.

get fucked relevancynigger

But a bad player will smack your shield with the middle of Lucina's sword ignoring the idea of spacing and are easily publishable and free.
Better players use spacing and utilize the entire length of their weapon making their attacks safe. Granted it's not extremely hard, but an actual bad player who isn't thinking is almost worse with a sword character.

Just any other character would be better. Smashfags are retarded because they complain about Dragon Quest getting in (a gaming icon) but lose their minds when an irrelevant bear gets in

Post more my man

This. Counting all the Marthlikes as one character like the Hero, we have 4 FE characters. A basic swordsman with slight variations, a heavy zweihander swordsman (functionally the same as an axe), a mage with a lightning sword, and a character whose limbs turn into lances and a cannon with teeth.

theres fucking seven of them. unbelievable

More like swords destroys bad players

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I agree. There's just too many with similarities.

Can Do.

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There's EVERYTHING wrong with the FE characters of Smash
Aside from Marth, none of them were chosen because they represent the series particularly well or were particularly popular. Every one of them except Marth and Chrom just happened to be from the latest FE games while a Smash game was being made and thus got the spot "by default". Why the fuck should Roy be in Smash? And the other characters still just feel "relevant" because their games are still relatively recent. In 10 years they'd feel just as out of place as Roy. Then there's Chrom just got in because they already had a model and he was cheap to make.
You also have to consider if the characters represent their series well. Almost every Smash characters is a good representation of their series because they appear in multiple games. FE characters don't. But, some characters still represent the series better than other. Marth is good because he represents the archetypal Lord, which is why three other characters use moves from him. But then that just means they're a bunch of clones; they're essentially the same deal as the Dragon Quest Hero, but as four characters. And the DQ Hero works well because they chose four characters from four different games that represent four different parts of Dragon Quest that are all fairly popular. Meanwhile you have Marth, then Roy the Literally Who, then two Awakening characters. The Dragon Quest Hero just highlights how stupid those choices of characters are. And the worst of all is Corrin, and to a lesser extent Corrin; the Lord archetype is a good representation of the series because he's in almost every game, but Robin and Corrin are two OC donut steel classes, meaning they only represent their own specific game.
You could remove every single FE characters except Marth, give him three other Lords as costumes, then add a single other class (Say a Wyvern Rider) with four different characters as costume, and you'd have better FE representation than you have now.

Keep Marth turn Lucina into an alt costume
Keep Roy turn Chrom into an alt costume
Remove Ike. His games nearly killed the series and Cloud fills his niche.
Keep Robin
Keep Corrin
New FETH rep
There's your FE problem solved.

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Because Banjo and Kazooie are good games while no one but nips with shit taste likes the DQ games.

The “wrong” part is the fact that 3 of the 7 FE characters currently in Smash Ultimate have a moveset derived from Marth. That sameness factor is one of the reason some people get upset at the concept of another FE character or any sword wielder as a newcomer; all they see is the Marth moveset.

>Keep Marth turn Lucina into an alt costume
>Keep Roy turn Chrom into an alt costume
What does that accomplish? Echoes are just extra spicy costumes for the most part.

Why are you complaining about Robin and Corrin being self insert of donut steals when the DQ heroes have less personality then them?

No. Gorilla Ike basically does everything you would do.

it accomplishes fucking nothing, but it makes people feel good.

Into the end of Narcian’s blade he goes.

People complaining about FE clones are stupid. While stuff like the Marthlikes have very similar animations, the little differences between sweetspots and move properties make their playstyles different with little to no work. It's better than actual alternate costumes which are just cosmetic wastes of space that provide no gameplay variety, no matter how small.

A retarded reply as expected from a retarded smashfag

I don't see Ike lobbing Ragnell at fucking lightspeed at his opponent nor SOULfully animating like Hector does in FE7 so he's lame-o
Hector died like a fucking bitch and the FE6 remake needs to retcon that and make him go out with a bang

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Because the DQ Heroes represent the entire series instead of one specific game due to the recurring archetype they represent, while Robin and Corrin only represent their own specific game because they have OC donut steel classes. What the fuck does personality have to do with this?

>4 Fire Emblem characters share basically the same moveset. Main difference is a few minor tweaks.
>Very little effort goes into it, and it makes things interesting and allows better representation for the series.
>This is bad for some reason.
>4 Dragon Quest characters get in with the exact same moveset
>Probably has about as much work put into them as the FE characters considering they most likely will have 16 specials on account of the menu system
>Still keeps things interesting and represents the series well.
>This is acceptable to most since it shares one slot.

The problem is a perception issue, like how clones like Dark Pit were hated in 4 but now that they're called echo fighters tons of people want even more clones. Imagine if the Dragon Quest guy was in the base game and you get a seperate "A new challenger appears!!!" for each of his costumes. Imagine one for each of the koopalings.

There is a lot of people in this world, they are all born stupid and take a long time to learn, you should be designing things in a way that leads their barest perception to a desirable state in order to make it unnecessary for them to go through the difficult process of changing their view of the world.

It reduces the FE roster people complain about.
Note that no one complains that Olimar has an Alph costume or that Bowser junior doesn't have alt colors, but people still main specific koopalings.
It also curbs redunancies in movesets.
>Lucina isn't just marth without tipper, lucina is now interchangeable with marth, like Roy and Chrom.
That being said, I believe echoes can easily be assimilated as costumes across the board.
But what you said is true. Echoes are not a problem, the only "excess" FE character is Ike.
>He steps on Ganon's heavy sword hit territroy and Cloud's big sword territory.
>His games sold like shit and nearly killed the series
>Nobody recognized him before Brawl.
He's more of a Smash character, than an FE character. So, I guess that's his reason for his continued attendance.

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Reminder: It's canon that she uses her body to strategically detract and stun enemies.

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Marth, Roy, Ike, Robin, and Corrin all have distinct movesets. There is nothing wrong with having 5 fire emblem characters, and echoes realistically aren't hurting anyone.

Now that's strategy!

3 of them at Max should be in, the rest cut. Could’ve/should’ve had based polearm axe and mace characters in their spots instead.

I would agree if three out of the eight weren't just Marth clones.

Robin represents mages in the series and the weapon degradation mechanics also actual tactician works to an extent.
Corrin represents Manakettes.

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Drop Lucina
Drop Chrom
Add Hector
Add Ephraim

add Master Knight Leif for true representation of FE as a whole

Now that really sizzles!

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>Robin represents mages
>Uses a sword

>Corrin represents Manakettes.
>Uses a sword

If you want to represent Manakete, why the fuck wouldn't you pick Tiki? She canonically appears in three different games, which coincidentally are some of the most popular games in the series, actually fights like the traditional Manakete archetype, every other female manakete in the series were based on here, and even has an adult form in case Sakurai doesn't want a loli in Smash.
But no, let's choose Corrin the """manakete""" who uses a sword and who's dragon form looks nothing like other manaketes.

People complain because they think Lucina or Chrom stole their most wanted's spot in the roster, not realising that clones and echoes take considerably less time and effort and are really just a bonus.

Coming off Awakening's success, Smash 4's base game selection of Marth, Ike, Robin and Lucina was the perfect representation of the series at that time.

Everything after that was well-intentioned, but ultimately not handled quite right with hindsight.

Drop Lucina and Chrom and convert Roy to an echo fighter

Corrin was the definition of a shill pick in smash4 similar to Roy was in melee. At least they partly put more work into her and made a pretty interesting character that reps manakettes at all even if it's not the entirety of the moveset.
The word "sword" is a nitpick because Robin's levin sword feels and acts really different from the normal swords.

the character is already there, what's the point of cutting her out now?

>I want less content
There isn't an alternative to those options, Master Chief would not be in the game instead.

>The word "sword" is a nitpick because Robin's levin sword feels and acts really different from the normal swords.
Also feels and acts really different than any other FE mages since they don't use swords.

WOW
Look at this, I just fixed permanently Fire Emblem's representation in Smash

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Pretty fucking based

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>Not Marth, Hector, Ike, Black Knight (echo), Robin, Lucina (echo)

Why are Hectorfags like this?

>echo
Unless you meant alt skin, see pic related

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If Robin waved an actual lightning bolt around in melee range you would literally not complain.

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>brainlet slotnigger
It's essentially the exact same effort, but with the ability to tweak minor properties and have a full set of alts.

Two character representing Awakening is too much. Should have been Marth Ike and Robin.

I just think it's sad this is most people's exposure to Fire Emblem. It's a game about unit diversity and using different weapons to counter other weapons. Seriously, if they removed Lucina and Chrom and replaced them with Hector and Ephraim it would work better.

Hector's the most popular non-Smash FE (fighter/assist) character. Nu-Emblem also blows and we want some good shit from one of the best eras of FE.

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>with the ability to tweak minor properties

Dark Samus, Richter and Daisy would like to have a word with you, they are the exact same

Sakurai literally admit they are rosterfiller
He said something like
> The reason why they are so many fire emblem characters is because they are easy to make and "strategic"

Also this fuckers dig a hole for future sword characters like the DQ guys
Fuck fire emblem, they are the entire reason the anime swordfighter meme exist in the first place

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Don't get me fucking started. Richter and Dracula or Richter and Contra Dude would've been worlds better.

Except the concept of removing echoes and replacing them with full unique character has been proven again and again to be unfeasible. It's literally the law of equivalent exchange.

>cutfag
Why not just add Hector???
Literal retardation.

Too much clutter and useless characters that add nothing and that nobody wanted
This isn't MUGEN

There isn't, but they should really not add the latest FE shill character, that's what I'm tired of. I'd rather them pick a character that's been liked for years for once.

This is taking the metaphorical shit and making it into something else. Nobody will miss R63 Marth and Marth with half a shirt.

I feel like these people are just actively looking for shit. They can't see the forest through the trees. Why should some random npc get in over the main character of a game in the turning point of the franchise, because them using a sword IN ADDITION to magic violates their purity as representation of the "mage" class.
Imagine if pokemon had autistic fucks asking for there to be reps for every single type and no dual types, but even then pokemon types are more likely to have actual gameplay implications moreso than whether somebody's disjointed hitbox looks like a sword, an axe, glitter or hands transformed into black jaws by kirin dna.

Richter's fire is considered physical, Dark Samus' up smash can hit people easier, before Sakurai went full retard because daisyfags are shitters her turnips had a more neutral knockback growth.

Marth's english voice

Smash is large enough for anyone character could be anyone's favorite.
I wanted Chrom, and a lot of people in Japan did too, how is that no more valid than anyone else's wants?
Because MUH EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE DIFFERENT?
Then why stop at removing the Fire Emblem clones and semi clones?
Why not remove, Luigi, Ganondorf, Lucas, etc?
It's genuine retardation, and hypocritical.

Get rid of Roy and Chrom. Keep Marth OR Lucina. Bring in a lance user, bow user, ninja, or mage.

I actually can't get used to his Japanese voice anymore. His English voice is actually really fitting.

>I wanted Chrom
Stopped reading right there
Fuck you and fuck eveyone who wanted him in, what a fucking waste

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>this level of mad
Must suck that your pick didnt get in user.

Do you actually think making the 3D model of the character is the hard part? We have no idea how many echoes equal a full fledged character and from what they've implied it's astronomically easier to make some of the simpler echoes (i.e. Lucina, Richter, Chrom) than real ones.

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Chrom is just Marth with a gay shield and only half a shirt. If they wanted an Awakening rep, Donnel has loads more personality and can use Lances. Fire Emblem has other fucking weapons, you know.

No, I think making a good character is the hard part. Marths 2-5 are just lazy.

marth is iconic
lucina and robin get a pass because awakening literally revived interest in fire emblem
roy is also iconic
ike and corrin are fun
people wanted to see chrom in because he was in robin's final smash and felt cheated out of a spot in the roster

i have nothing against them and people who say there are too many don't realize there are twelve mario characters and nine pokemon. series with big character rosters and lots of titles with individual representatives of said titles get lots of representation. even castlevania got simon AND richter.

>ten Mario characters, two clones*

holy based

HOLY ANIME SAMEFACE!

Going by that logic, there are now only five FE characters and two clones. They're individual characters at the end of the day. Different reps from different games in the series.

>Fast strong characters with little endlag and a disjoint that ensures you can't get a hit in edgewise.
>Oh also lol you tried to attack me but I countered and now you ded LEL KEKAROONIE!
I don't care how easy these fucks are to beat. They're a pain in the ass and not fun at all to fight against. Fuck 'em.

And I've suggested making them not be clones. By replacing the clones with proper representatives from FE8/7.

Learn to outrange them then.

I wouldn’t mind it if chrom and lucina were alts for marth and roy, like DQ hero. I’d have liked Corrin better if we has a newcomer in Ultimate and not a literal who when we has announced. Literally least hype newcomer and reveal of all time.

he was*
God damn I’m illiterate

Patrician taste, user.

If you remove all the clones to create one unique character I would take that over a bunch of clones anyday

They're never going to not be clones though.

he*

Ftfy

What's worse is that Daisy has her own slot and whatnot while having literally no differences to Peach (aside from voice and effects and win anims) while Alph is stuck as an alt costume. If they're gonna do shit like that then fuck give Blood Falcon a proper slot then.

Oh god, they all have the same face. Chrom just has slightly smaller eyes and the females have lipstick.

Then group them under one character like whoever from Dragon's Quest. Make room for Ephraim and Hector, who at least are different weight class and weapon choice. I literally couldn't care less about Chrom, Lucina, or Roy. At least Robin is different mechanically.

That's dumb logic, pick them up yourself
>Fair and Nair
>Safe to spam
They're hardly safe to spam, they're easy to punish on shield

Falchions can't do shit against projectiles other than literally to wait. good Mewtwo and Samus players eat them for breakfast.

I use the superior Ike skin.

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But Lucina and Chrom have actual differences. Its not just a costume.
Your arbitrary definition of differences doesn't apply here.
Why not just keep it the same while adding 7 and 8 content?
What difference does it make?

I like Hector, but you'll have more luck praying for a new game with a main MAIN lord or an MC who uses axes by default. No reason to remove Ike too.

None. I just think it's a fair trade is all. Oh and the "differences" are laughable. "She's like Marth but for babies"

at this points echoes don't mean shit. Half the echoes are the same down to frame data, and the other hand are marginally different to the original

I guess from his perception if everything was the same and they just added "more deserving" FE characters then there really would be an unusual amount of dev time and money being put towards Fire Emblem, which isn't completely wrong. Slot aren't a thing that can be filled, but there is limited time for them to make things for the game and more complicated things take more time and work while stuff like Lucina and Chrom take way less. That's why they are okay.

To be fair, being made for casuals who can't play the way it was originally intended is an excellent way to represent the game she's from.

Having different kill percentages is more than enough of a difference.

How do I stop getting pissed while playing Smash? Be it FE characters I just can't deal with, or any other thing that curb stomps me, I just get tilted. I don't throw or punch or break shit, but I do get royally ticked off. Hell I even know I'm gonna have a hard time since I play Ridley but I still stop having fun at point since he just can't do much sometimes.

It sucks cause I'd like to get better but I'm at this weird point where I can beat casuals without much trouble but get utterly floored by anyone who knows their shit. It's like if I could just accept I'm gonna lose I'd not be that ticked off since it'd give me more reason to keep playing Ridley, ya know? Yet:
>combo'd to 60
>then another
>smash
>dead
>beesting them until 180
>feels like forever to get a kill
Though that doesn't really have anything to do with getting pissed in of itself. I just wanna have fun dammit.

git gud

Luigi is a terrible example, especially in Ultimate. People have wanted Ganondorf changed forever. And yeah honestly Lucas doesn't need to be there.

You got me there. All I liked about Awakening was Donnie and Gregor.

Remove girl marth, dad marth and fire marth then buff marths tipper a lil.
There, fixed.
Id like marth to be unique in his ability to counter too but that's asking too much with a roster this big.

While I'm talking out my ass, I wish lil macs counter worked like Bayonetta's witch time, even if it'd be a step down in his survivability.
I wish links passive projectile immunity had limits, maybe his shield could break just like BotW ;^)

Time to tip the scale!

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Just keep Ike, Marth, Robin, and Corrin

I don't get your mentality. What makes you think that Chrom not being in the game would mean that anything else would have made it in in his stead. He was clearly in because he had a model ready and to functionally mirror Lucina in that he doesn't has Roy's hilt gimmick.

Just out with it: what sort of obscure character with little known background did you want with in. Maybe if you cry hard enough someone will draw a wojack of it.

Th-thanks.

It's cool to see more Ridley players, but believe me he has worse matchups than sword characters. It sounds more like you need to shake up your game plan when fighting them even if it means playing a little lame sometimes.
That's kinda the trade off of maining a midish tier character instead of using them as a counterpick for certain matchups. You shouldn't give up though playing and getting good at unusual characters like Ridley is rewarding and gets respect from people you meet locally.

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Corrin is not needed, we do not need a character from every fucking FE game. As much as I like Ike, I wouldn't tear up if it was just Marth +

Precisely what I said.
Even if I don't care for them they are a unique playstyle, I just wish they looked better.

Here's another one
>>>Ridley
Play a lot of characters, not just Ridley.

And here's my personal tip: Got to Smash, set the stocks to something high like 30 or 50 or so and fight against a level 9 computer. Focus not on killing it, neither on doing flashy and useless twitter combos but rather on approaching and attacking without getting hit yourself.

I wish she'd scale my tip.

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Here's the thing, this particular game's gimmick was: everything is in. So Marth all the way up to Lucina and Robin were confirmed. Chrom was just reused assets up the ass. Now look at the series hisoty with FE
>Melee: Marth + Shill Lord
>Brawl: Marth + Shill Lord
>Tr4sh: Marth, Ike + Shill Avatar and a glorified color scheme
>DLC: Roy as part of the "characters from the previous games" pack and Shill Lord

Yeah Melee and Brawl had it right.

>Gay Marth
But that's all seven of them.

>Level 9 CPU
don't do that unless you have horrible internet. Computers teach bad habits because whether or not stuff works on them totally different than stuff that will work on a humon beeing.
Go online and completely ignore your GSP and win loss rate or even better meet people locally. Watch tourney footage of characters you want to play and think about what those people are doing when and why. Mechanically smash isn't very difficult so a lot of tech can be replicated without needing to be as proficient as a pro.

>shill avatar
How is adding a character from a successful game released 2 years ago a "shill"? Neither is Ike, specially compared to a character from a game that wasn't even released and another that wasn't released in the west yet.

My advice is to go for the ledge.
It's best to fly away from the hit, off the stage and ledge grab, it's often the safest way for ridly to return to a neutral situation, also don't forget you can side b without going into freefall.
Repeatedly trying to turn around a combo you're in will quickly remind you that you're playing a big purple beach ball, just ledge and try again.

>angry
Just savor the times you pirate rush someone while off stage and bail just before you plummet off screen with them.
Or when you bail sooner and they stage spike. (My favorite)
It's feels like surviving ganoncide.
Better when your opponent gets enraged feeling like you gave them a cheap death and they get reckless.

Corrin, Lucina, Roy, and Chrom were not fucking necessary

>Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin
That's the roster right there, no need for reverse-tippers and "Marth but with stupid consistency that makes the clone objectively better"

While we're at it, Doc Mario and one of the Links can get fucked too and Ganondorf can get a slight moveset update to take him even further from Captain Falcon.

Yeah I'm maining him no matter what. Swordies give me trouble but a good bit of the upper half of the roster does. If I could keep from getting tilted I'd play better too. Might just boil down to mind over matter and consciously keep from getting ticked.

Think Banjo Kazooie would be a good secondary for a Ridley main, from what little we saw from them?

Level 9 computers are bad to learn person-to-person battle habits like reads or mixups. Level 9 computers, however, have frame perfect movements and are great for refining your own technique if you already know what you are doing yourself.

In this case what you should learn and refine is being safe, approaching without leaving yourself being exposed and drilling that into your own muscle memory.

This might come as a surprise to you but you can actually go out and purchase a game several years after release, and a company will still get money for it. Shocking, I know.

Is he mid? I see so many claim he's low and shit. If some consider him mid maybe a few buffs could really help him out?

Guys you won you have banjo what else do you need?

Going with that logic, basically every character that isn't retro counts as a shill pick.

Their obscure literal who character from one game

in order from left to right:
sword, sword, sword (but FIRE), sword, sword, sword (but MAGIC), sword (but WATER)

Oh god, a game that is a mashup of multiple characters is trying to expose new audiences to new people to sell more games? how dare they

Who can stay
>Marth/Lucina - I don't care which but only one can stay
>Roy
>Ike
>Robin

Who can fuck off
>Marth/Lucina - one of them has to go
>Chrom
>Corrin

Who should be added
>Anyone with an axe (as long as they aren't from Awakening or Fates), preferably Hector
>Anyone with a spear (as long as they aren't from Awakening or Fates), I don't care who

No more down+B counter moves on any new FE reps. If you have it, you can keep it. If you're new, you need something else.

There. I fixed the FE representation.

To be fair his games are widely considered by FE fans to be the best of the series though. That, and he is massively popular in the mobile gacha game.

Personally when I feel like that I've found success in stopping whatever I was doing and being to focus on lobbing single fireball and the group of three fireballs.
It not only nickle and dimes you more damage than you'd expect but people tend to get impatient against that and rushing in very sloppily. Lots of people try to respond with just jumping over it but because Ridley can act relatively quickly after shooting fireballs you can catch them with raising fair and you should continue to look for more damage like that from there.
A tip for the group of three fireballs is you can easily and consistantly learn the timing if you hold B just until he raises his wings in the air. The charge up for that is very fast for what you can get out of it and for the amount of space they control.

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Please do.

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Only if the game is still in print or sold digitally through official channels.

>Roy is iconic
Fuck outta here

and in the day and age of ultimate that is the case. The only characters whose game or can't be purchased right now that I can think of are Snake, Duck Hunt and Lucas.

He's absolutely mid if not slightly lower of mid.
His neutral is unironically great, but he has really awful disadvantage mostly due to him being the size of a superheavy but not being even close to the weight class of one. His recovery also has pretty apparent obvious flaws and his airspeed is worse than I feel like it should be.
His only truly bad attack by design is down air which is not bad all things considering. If they improve the hitboxes of a couple of his attacks like making up tilt fit the animation and scooping better from behind and in front of him like it looks like it should he's strengths would be a bit more obvious, but he really doesn't need too much.

>DQ characters take up 1 slot
>FE characters take up 4 slots

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Edelgard!

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I'll give it to him. In the contex of Japan, much like DQ Hero, Roy is pretty darn popular for he's the first of the GBA era of FE games.

>nine

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>nine

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A. this is an unfair comparison because the 4 Heroes all take up the same slot
B. This is barely true. Marth and Lucina have the exact same moves. The only difference is the tipper. Roy and Chrom also share the exact same moves, with the exception of their Up+B (which Chrom stole from Ike) and again, the only difference is the tipper.

Echos were honestly a mistake. As somebody who wanted Daisy, even I will admit that she shouldn't have gotten a slot. She should have just been an alt, especially because they updated her to be exactly the same as Peach. The FE echoes should have been the same. Alt costumes AT MOST.

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FE is not even comparable to DQ. FE was fucking C tier until it hit it big with Awakening, even in this "scope of Japan" bullshit you're pulling

I meat how in the west DQ is very literal who but in japan DQ is very big. In the west Roy is just a smash character, but in the west Roy, and Binding Blade as a whole, is very iconic within the series. Binding Blade to them is what FE7 is to us, pretty much.

I'm pleased Chrom is in smash because I like him and think he's a fun character.

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Lets just say for instance
There was just one "SLOT" that was grey and just had the letters FE on it where you cycled through every fire emblem character in the game like you would cycle through alt costumes and pick them there.
That would fix all your problems. Can't you see you're making up the problem in your head stemming from the way you compartmentalize things?
There is pretty strong evidence that prove the 4 DQ character costumes take about as much work as most of the FE cast in smash while the FE cast offer at least seemingly small gameplay differences to justify picking one over the other when you start getting bored with the one you've been picking.

You guys do realise the Fire Emblem reps are some of the most popular Smash characters? Outside of us super nerds they're likely the most celebrated smash characters.

Why the fuck do you think they add so many? It's fan service and people love it. Get over it and brace for more.

Chrom should never have happened, but the rest are a consequence of the "everyone ever" gimmick for ultimate. It's a little grating, but not THAT bad.

Future titles should probably only include one of Marth/Lucina/Roy/Chrom. Everyone else is sufficiently different. If all future FE inclusions are at least as different as Robin I'll be happy.

More FE is fine as long as that doesn't just translate to "more Marths". Robin is great; Corrin and Ike are fine.

>There is pretty strong evidence that prove the 4 DQ character costumes take about as much work as most of the FE cast
No, there isn't. The majority of the effort comes from animating the models and building out the attack properties. That's not to say that creating the model isn't also a significant effort but in the case of the four Heroes, they only had to do the animations and attack properties ONCE and just apply it to the four models. With the FE echoes, they had to do animation and move properties for EACH model because there are slight differences to them. It almost might have been MORE work because they had to still make sure the hitboxes were the same despite having subtly different animations.

Do you actually think they identically remade the hit boxes and hurtboxes for Lucina and Marth? No, they are almost entirely reused assets and skeletons with some of the damage values changed. That type of work is usually the first thing modders do because of how easy it is.
Dark Samus took more work because even though it's attacks share the same damage and launch values as Samus most of the animations are unique. The extra work that Dark Samus and Ken received were worth it but Lucina didn't need new animations made from scratch so they didn't do that.

Roy and especially a Ike should be removed. Imagine selling less than 1 mill and making it into Smash. Disgraceful

God female robin is so fucking cute

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That really is the take away from all this.

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its the only thing of substance to come from this thread

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It's hilarious you keep screeching and farting about relevancy when Sakurai himself has told you to go fuck yourself.

No complains here.

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Why do I fuck up when blocking with him? I feel like I get punished when I block an attack. Hell even when I land an attack at times.

The major problem is all the goddamned swords. For a series that extremely heavily relies on weapon triangles and types Sakurai completely ignored it all.

That's because every main character in the franchise with few exceptions use a sword, and said exceptions missed the window.

I'll gladly take all four of them if they change them around to actually be different.

They can wield other weapons, can't they?

Depends on what and where you're hit. Your fastest out of shield options are up smash with the hitbox starting behind Ridley so use that if they cross you up and your second and most consistent our of shield option is of course your natural air which is one of his most varied tools. Don't feel like you need to punish every attack that you block sometimes it's better to wait and watch the other player or use your plus frames to reposition yourself.
Even if an attack is unpunishable on shield that doesn't mean you can't counterattack. Use all your tilt accordingly to attack where the other player thinks it's safe to land after attacking with a "safe on shield aerial".

They "can", but it's not like Lucina carries a Prf. lance around.

>Roy is a clone (Who isn't treated like a clone anymore cause Melee) and first real shill character
>Lucina is a one of character who got in because of right place right time syndrome and is just vanilla Marth
>Corrin is a disgusting character, most blatant shill, ugly design and a literal Mary Sue from a game not even the fans liked. If you like Corrin, you are a footfag or butter dragon
>Chrome is a clone of a clone who got in because nips have awful taste

Roy, Lucina, Corrin and Chrom were a mistake, the others are fine. I dont want them removed, but everything about their inclusion is dumb.

Roy came from a fucking unreleased game, it had no place in smash, even if you were to argue he was an easy clone, there were other character who actually had a game and were popular that could have been clones, he was just thee because of Sakurai bias

Lucina should have been a costume, there is nothing about her abilities that give her the right to be her own character while guys like Alph and the Koopalings were costumes, the "easy marth" excuse doesnt apply because you could have done the same to the others, again FE bias.

Corrin inclusion is just as bad, if not worse than Roy. Corrin came from a game that was only released at japan, and for a very short period of time, it was DLC and had a complete unique moveset unlike the simple clone Roy. The biggest bias of them all possibly.

Chrom was just a backlash for a smash4 traile that Sakurai itself created, had he not shown up in the trailer no one would have asked for him, it would be like showing Dixie in the Krool trailer and not adding her to the roster. Fan requested, but the request itself was fabricated.

FE according to the fans has a ton to offer like spear users, axe users and mounted fighters, so the fact all of them with the exception of Corrin just use a sword is a bad representation of the series, and along that, gives FE, a series that until a few years past was small, more fighters than Zelda or other major series which just until recently had much fewer fighters, like DK or Metroid. It was favoritism and chance, there is plenty of wrong with them, but we have to live with the mistakes made, Ultimate is great for bringing everyone back, but if smash6 simply isnt able to accomplish the same, the ones mentioned above should be at the front of the chopping block if one is necessary for time and budget restraints.

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Girls in casual comfy clothing is one of my favorite things.

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Thanks man, I'll try to keep this in mind. I need to work on getting as much damage as I can when I land something. Sure I fair after an attack when I can. Compared to how easy he is to combo and the damage he takes it feels like I'm not outputting enough myself. Well compared to overly good players anyway.

>bias
I don't know if I'd call a literal advertisement "bias"

Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom should just be one character instead of 4

FE has several classes and characters and the roster for them is made of 5 pure swordfighters with robin and corrin showing how fun they could be otherwise

Nintendo should collab with French Bread and make a Fire Emblem anime fighting game

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Just compress them down into alt costumes and it'll be more tolerable. Even if that only brings the series down to 4 reps.

Feel confident in Ridley's damage output. He doesn't have a ton of natural "combos" outside of real basic followups and strings like downthrow/downtilt into forwardair or even sourspot nair into forwardtilt or fireballs into dash attack.
What I mean is Ridley's individual moves are high damage on their own. Focus more on getting single hits and capitalizing on where the other player tries to escape to after you hit him and be ready to occupy that space with your own hitboxes. If you go to the right place at the right time they just fall into hit after hit and in gross amounts of time they are at high percent damage.
I'm also not even covering edgegaurding which he's great at.

Nice.

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I would be ok with this if it weren't for lucina and chrome.
chrom especially.

>adds nothing to the game
>unironically using this reasoning on a game with 70+ characters

>next smash game comes around
>dev team trying to shrink the roster
>start with Fire Emblem
>Sakurai busts down the door
>says to give Roy and Lucina and new, entirely original moveset, and to get rid of Chrom
There, we fixed the biggest issue

Still better than Sonicfags crying that OW THE EDGE and his other shitty friends aren't in as full characters. They're such sore losers, it's funny.

Fire Emblem in smash is absolutely fine, it's one of Nintendo's biggest IP's at the moment
what im not okay with is the fact that they all use swords, there's no archers, lance users, stone users, axes, spears, 100% tome users, horseback riders, staffs, nothing. it's really monotonous how they all have swords

Female Robin is not canon though.

Robin and Lucina are the better ship, faggot

Isn't that incest?

This is it, exactly. Give us Hector or Tharja or Ephraim... Something!

Lucina Chrom And Roy become like the hero and become alts for Marth, leave Ike, robin, and Corrin because they're nothing like the four Marths and that way we only have four FE reps, which means they could add more unique ones.

no? im talking about Male Robin

>Remove Ike
Imma say nah, he's literally the most popular lord. Regardless of what you think. And fire emblem was dying before his game, it's still fucking dying.

to add on to this, i also don't mind the FE roster as is right now, you don't need to cut characters, because doing so wont make other more unique characters appear. just add someone unique like Anna. plus i hate cutfags

There's nothing good about them either

The echo stuff would be fine if other series had echoes

Make Lucina into a Marth costume and remove the dumb tipper mechanic since it makes her better than Marth, cut Roy (a shill character from an unreleased game, adds nothing new), Chrom (Marth #4 is not needed when Awakening already had TWO characters) and Corrin (another shill character from a bad game) and you got the perfect FE representation.

Make a different unique newcomer instead of Corrin, make a different semi clone instead of Roy and make a different echo instead of Chrom. Marth (series mascot) with a Lucina alt, Ike (very popular Lord) and Robin (reps the most popular game) is all FE should have.