So i've been getting into Hollow Knight (thanks Game Pass), as a sucker for a good Metroidvania i was keen to see how it compares to the greats (which IMO are Super Metroid and Ori). So far it seems decent enough but holy shit there are some deeply annoying game mechanics in there for reasons i can't understand. Primarily the map thing. So the game restricts proper map tracking and progress until you pick up a few items, which seems dumb but they are early enough in the game that it wasn't a huge deal. But the kicker is you need to find the map maker and buy his map for each new area you encounter before you can see yourself and the areas you've covered. And it's getting right on my tits. For me the joys of Metroidvania's is exploring the world, but that exploration is only enjoyable when you have a reference point for where you've been and don't need to worry about taking the "wrong" route. On multiple occasions now I have happened to go deep into an area and not come across the map guy. Meaning exploration is essentially constantly hamstrung by the lack of awareness about where i am or how far i've gone. It's super fun when you die as well and have to try and remember how the hell you get back to that area without a map to retrieve your Geo and sort out your magic capacity.
So i've been getting into Hollow Knight (thanks Game Pass)...
I appreciate being made to navigate on my own for a bit, I never found it to be a problem. It's a pretty controversial mechanic though.
Also the game map doesn't update until you sit at a bench. Just... why? There's few times i've ever wanted to be a PC gamer to mod a game but if i was playing this on PC i would immediately find a mod to get rid of this.
I guess after hearing all the hype about HK being a top class Metroidvania i'm surprised at how much of a slog it is. It's especially rough having just finished Guacamelee 2 which was not at all interested in dicking the player around with arbitrary restrictions and just let you have fun.
You can buy the map in the main hub if you missed him in a certain area.
Guess what zoom zoom, back in the day we had to draw our own maps in games, so HK devs giving us both options is actually a pro, not a con.
Where? I got a memo from the map guy so I went up top but didn’t see any options to buy the maps I missed from the store owner
>It's super fun when you die as well and have to try and remember how the hell you get back to that area without a map to retrieve your Geo and sort out your magic capacity.
This, but unironically. It IS genuinely fun to use your memory to get around. Getting by without the map, is some of the best parts of the game.
The map mechanic makes the world so much more immersive and makes you feel like you're lost in a bleak landscape, like you have no hope. If you always just know where you have to go all the time and know what you're supposed to do, it loses a lot of its appeal as a game.
????
if you really do play metroidvanias then you shouldn't have any problems with the map maker
I feel the same way, OP. The map mechanics drive me up the fucking wall, but it's pretty good otherwise. I'll still probably make my way through the entire game.
I quite like hollow knight it makes my pee pee tingly
Dude, just take note of your surroundings. It's not that hard. And even if you make the wrong turn, so what? You had an adventure.
To me this map finding thing seems to be a way to artificially extend the game that by the looks of it is already large and expansive enough to not need that kind of padding. So i've decided when i enter a new area to just look at a map online and guide myself straight to the map maker so i can get on with the enjoyable parts of the game and minimise the aspects of it that i find shitty.
By the time I did the flower quest I pretty much had the entire map memorized.
Playing for the first time and it's honestly really easy to find the map man. He is generally in the early part of an area and as long as you can remember a couple screens it isn't hard to look for him, also his humming and paper trail make it easy too. If you're putting time into exploring everything you shouldn't miss him really. I do agree that having to rest on a bench to update your map is annoying though, but when you die it automatically updates and you can see your ghost or whatever.
Yeah, I know. I'm enjoying the game and it's really fucking good. Just one of the mechanics I may have changed. No big deal.
I'm still going to beat it.
Motherfucker, how hard is it to remember where you've been? I don't understand. Is your brain broken? You can't remember simple patterns? You can't look at a room, leave, come back, and remember it's a room you've been in before?
It's the worst part of the game by far, the amount of time I wasted aimlessly lost was insane. Luckily I bought this on Switch, can't imagine playing this sitting in front of a big ass TV lost half the time.
One of the shops, the one with the qt wife.
You know you can enter the bouses... right?
>getting casual filtered by map mechanics
Never gonna make it.
the game is slow going and nothing all that special at first, besides the voice acting and writing which is above average throughout
once you load up on charms, and start fighting some real bosses, you'll get people think it's fucking exhilarating
I'm convinced that these posters are zoomzooms
I just can't do it bros, I'm too much of a casual. Got filtered hard.
The game's incredibly slow start is something I hope Silksong gets fixed.
overrated shit
I also don't like the map stuff
>Xero
Come on, he's a bit more painful with the separated platforms, but he's not Markoth or Radiance tier
This is my Hall of Gods. There are many like it but this one is mine.
I had a few gripes, but yeah the map is the one tht made me drop the game, it's unnecessarily inconvenient for the type of game it is. I can be okay with needing to buy the ability to draw the map on your own and having to get to a resting area to update the map, since you're checking it in real time, but you should not have to find the cartographer to be able chart an area to begin with
Yeah that’s the one I went to. Maybe I missed the option in her list or something.
I don't think that's the case. Because I've known their kind since I was little, and into adulthood. I still see them on twitch. Late 20s to 30s. Hairline receding. And crying about the map mechanic in Hollow Knight. Or crying that Dark Souls doesn't have a map at all. I don't know what's wrong with them. it's like whatever isn't in their immediate vision ceases to exist.
Eh, I just started too and I'm loving it. The map thing annoyed me at first, but I'm starting to really like the adventure of being lost and trying to find the cartographer. The fact that the map doesn't update as you go along is still pretty annoying, though.
Haven't played much Metroidvania's (only Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow, and Super Metroid to be exact) so I don't know too much about them, but this seems to be living up to the hype
The map is garbage, i fully agree with you on that, its annoying how it wont update unless i go to a bench. I hope the sequel cuts these annoying things out the game
/threads/hollow-knights-weird-map-mechanic-is-driving-me-insane.123756/r
Whoops, ditch the r at the end
Are you proud of me?
Based and Godpilled.
I really hope silksong has a Hall of Gods too.
Someone please fucking fly to Adelaide and get me Silksong already.
>fly
I can walk. The spiders will probably get me before I make it though.
man why do you all need a fucking map to hold your hand everywhere you go
explore a bit, get lost, find new stuff
i went into deepnest right after beating the mantis lords and with no flashlight and went fucking deep and had tons of fun
>he didn't accidentally fall forty stories into deepnest and have to crawl back up with no map and half the recommmended upgrades, all in the dark surrounded by spooky skittering
absolute kino
I wonder if we'll ever get something like that again considering we're going up in Silksong instead of down.
It's kind of disorienting because Fog Canyon is one of the earliest areas and you're expected to enter and leave without finding Cornifer. I remember going through the same few rooms a million times because I was convinced I missed something.
I don't remember how early the area in the treehouse stream was, but I swear I read somewhere that Hornet's going to start with the dash.
Consider this. In Hollow Knight you need to beat Hornet first before getting the dash. In Silksong you already have the dash when you fight Lace which is basically the "Hornet" of the new game.
So it's safe to assume that you're getting that shit real quick into the game.
I just started this game myself. And fuck I love it so much! The map mechanic is a little weird but I got used to it fast. Pretty much bought everything at the hub and I feel like I’m nearing the end of the game. Just trying to figure out how to get passed those weird black barriers in that weird bubble map area. Just got the ability to double jump and swim in the acid water. Lot of back tracking to areas of the map that I couldn’t get passed until now.
>this is an extremely early game boss