Why doesn't literally every game use Vulkan? Every game that I've played that supported it ran like an absolute dream...

You don't seem to either.

It's not?

There is literally no good reason that Vulkan isn't used. Reasons include:

- Old game engines
- Developer incompetence and familiarity with DirectX

That's it. There's literally no other reason someone would use DirectX12 over Vulkan, except for them being retarded or a Microsoft employee.

Also Google Stadia will require game developers to make their game run on Linux and use Vulkan.

It's still relatively new and not many programmers know how to work with it. Meanwhile, DX devs have been accumulating experience for years. Hopefully Vulkan keeps growing through the years and more games get support. The list of games that are planning support for Vulkan is longer than the list of games that already support it, so things aren't looking too terrible for the future of Vulkan.

it's called vulkan because the earth will be engulfed in flames before it gets more use

you would know what's wrong with opengl if you ever used it.

You need a much bigger investment with it, and you're unlikely to be doing better than opengl drivers do unless you intimately understand it. Vulkan's stateless though, which is always nice.

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>10 lines 20 of 30 code

What the fuck does that even mean

>he never did Basic

>low-level API requires more lines of code than high-level API

Pretty much a given, much in the same way that a lower-level programming language like C++ requires more work than something like, say, Python. However, for resource intensive programs, C++ is still used because it gives much better performance. So really, if devs are ready to use C++ over other languages when developing game engines and games themselves because of performance benefits, they should be ready to use a low-level API as well.

slower
on windows AMD drivers suck so hard it's unreal

>on windows AMD drivers suck so hard it's unreal

Elaborate. I haven't had an issue with AMD's drivers in years now. Nice quads by the way.

OpenGL > DirectX > Vulkan

Fuck AMD

Imagine being this assblasted lol

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Nvidia cards benefit from Vulkan too, you literal mongoloid.

based zoomer

yes, and microshit is allready affraid of it, which is why they released pc gamepass and removed vulkan support from every game on their store.

I'm technologically retarded, but I noticed a bunch of my Steam games got some Vulkan update. What is it? Some graphics thing?

nvidia is about 300% faster in opengl in windows compared to amd
for example if you want to run pcsx2 opengl plugin for the best accuracy you need an nvidia gpu

a graphic rendere like dx and opengl which main purpose is to increase your fps.

It's a graphics API. Think of it as the middleman between the game and the hardware. The more efficiently this middleman does his job, the better the performance of the game. Most games use DirectX, which is another graphics API. OpenGL is another one.

I wish more emulators started using Vulkan. It's the sole reason RPCS3 became so good in under 2 years.

It's not easy to learn Vulkan, even for a programmer that already knows OpenGL or DirectX.

Vulkan (and DX12 and Mantle) require significant graphics programming skills to be used effectively. Like, if you don't have a dozen of crack engineers chances are your performance is going to be worse than what a single DX11 programmer could crap out in a tenth of the time.

So it's only worth the investment for companies that can afford very big teams, are making engine middleware, emulators (cause they're a fringe case adapting machines and need more fine-grained control than dx11-level APIs can offer) or are just super huge graphics programming nerds.

Basically, Vulkan is a very serious and excellent alternative to DX12 (which shares the same problem) but not to DX11, and most DX12 presentations will start by telling you it's only worth the switch if you're specifically doing a thing where DX11 is falling short.

Most teams are using middleware engines anyway, so vulkan support will happen naturally through UE and Unity.

>try vulcan
>game is glitchy
I don't get it

playing DirectX windows games on linux with wine and dxvk at full performance

Do you have an Nvidia card? I've read a few reports of Vulkan-related issues on Nvidia cards, but only in some games, not Vulkan supported games in general.

Nvidia card and DOOM

dx12 would be equally as good if devs weren't lazy shits and actually built a proper dx12 supporting game. 99.99% of all ""dx12"" games are just dx11 games with a dx12 wrapper and that's why most of them run worse in dx12 compared to dx11 due to extra overhead.

The state machine. Needing to bind an object to the current context every time you want to use it is clunky and makes multithreading nearly impossible without hacks or vendor specific extensions. Because of this most OpenGL applications just do all GL stuff in a single thread, and expensive operations like compiling shaders will necessarily cause brief freezes as you can't do anything else while that's happening.

>Vulkan is shunned by the industry at large.
you have no clue what you're talking about

This guy gets it. It'll take a few more years until we see a migration to either Vulcan or DX12.

It's the middleman between the game uses to get stuff to your screen. The current big-dick graphics API is DX11, but there has been a huge paradigm shift with Vulcan and DX12. It used to be that these APIs did very little work and that the specific drivers (which are basically the middlemen between the API and the hardware) were gigantic, bloated pieces of shit that had to do a lot of stuf that has barely anything to do with rendering anything. As a result, writing drivers is an absolute nightmare and they STILL crash constantly to this day.
Enter Vulcan and DX12. They do a lot more work than previous APIs, forcing the guy that uses that API to think a lot hader and causing the code baloon up in size on that end. We are talking 300 lines of code to render a triangle to 1800 lines of code to do the same thing. However, the benefit is that drivers can be slimmed down, a lof of optimization can be done on the API side and porting everything becomes a lot easier because you can rely on the API more.

Not that guy but care to elaborate?

Vulkan has a future for sure, PS4 uses Mantle which was I think the precursor to Vulkan so next console should use it too
dunno what xbone used though because I remember it having 2 whole cores dedicated to their shitty supervisor OS

The biggest problem Kronos faced was that they were slow as hell while Microsoft silently backported a ton of DX12's feature set to DX11, made it easier to access while started offering the Xbox support team to PC devs. DX12 is more of a future set for upcoming tech like Raytracing and variable shader usage now. While with Vulkan its either "Git gud" or hope AMD will spend the money to send out a squad of engineers to help implement VK while it is also falling behind on feature set. VK was the promised land when MS was a shambles but once MS got their shit together again. It's harder to justify the expense when DX 11 can go very low level and has a 24/7 support team.
Even Stadia probably won't give much of a boost to support since it's a forked version of Vulkan designed to hit a fixed spec. Switch uses Nvidia's internal revision of Vulkan but most devs ship multiplatforms on direct X. Vulkan launched on the back of the sentiment "Microsoft won't get their shit together". Turns out Microsoft did and why ship Vulkan when even DX11 is low level these days?

ps4 uses GNM.
both the ps4 and xbox dedicate 2 cores to the OS.

>PS4 uses Mantle which was I think the precursor to Vulkan so next console should use it too
PS4 uses a Sony internal fork of OGL called GNMX that had Vulkan features before Vulkan. So really unlikely they will use it and concentrate on their own fork and internal tech.

amd doesn't bother with vulkan anymore they heavily market dx12 because of their partnership with microsoft. all the MS games like forza horizon 4 runs massively better on amd than nvidia. expect upcoming games like gears 5 and halo mcc to run way better on amd in dx12.

GNMX is a directX wrapper but its not low level. they use GNM as their low level API. if you want to see an example of how shit GNMX is look at the DmC port to ps4 earlier this gen. literally doesn't even have AF.

With the MS support behind DX12, Vulcan is pretty much dead in the water. It'll take a good while before people will start migrating, but if the choice is between two roughly equal options and one has a dedicated support team and both Nvidia and AMD pushing it, Vulkan has no legs to stand on.
Shame.

At the moment Epic and Unity have more influence in pc game dev.

Where the fuck is Source 2 for public, GAAABEEE?

>Why doesn't literally every game use Vulkan?
they will

>Does Vulkan have a future as a serious alternative to DX?
No, not an alternative.
The dominant ruler. People will be using Vulkan either exclusively, or to run DX games better.

>With the MS support behind DX12...
pfftAHAHAHA!
DX12 is the new DX10. Fucking dead on water.
It\s even more embarrassing now that they themselves revealed that there\s zero reason why DX12 would not work on Windows 7, not to mention DXVK12 is already happening and further rendering Wontworks 10 obsolete.

>Vulkan has no legs to stand on.
Yyyeaah... except these little firms called Valve, Bethesda, Intel, Croteam ... etc. Not to mention just about every single emulator dev is quickly migrating to Vulkan.
And yes, even GPU manufacturers are getting behind it.

>At the moment Epic and Unity have more influence in pc game dev.
So it's fucking nothing. PC games aren't going to decide this, the market is way too small when compared to consoles. Or even fucking cellphones.

Why even bother learning Vulkan or hell even OpenGL when there are engines like Unity,UE4,etc. that do everything for you?

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>brainlett - the post

Yeah, the big bonus of using Vulkan is also Linux/Mac support with no effort whatsoever. Fuck DirectX.

If someone wants to make a game he is just going to waste his time on this shit.

Vulkan is significantly more low level of an API than OpenGL, which means it needs much more work to implement a graphics backend in Vulkan. Competent developers will be able to get more performance out of a Vulkan backend, but way more people are familiar with OpenGL.
Are there any higher level APIs built on top of Vulkan at this point? Haven't kept up for a couple of years now.

DX10 was stillborn because it was made with the worst version of Windows made since ME that got a backport of 11 anyway.

>Valve
Yeah, look at all these games they are releasing. All these releases and their ongoing efforts on the Loonix market are sure to shape the industry.

>Bethesda
Hearty laugh. Also, Bethesda only got in on Vulkan because of AMD... which puts its weight behind DX12 now.

>Croteam
My fucking sides.

Again, DX12 has actual support for when something goes inevitably wrong and both Nvidia and AMD pushing it, what the fuck does Vulkan have?

>Doom, Wolfenstein, Rage 2
all use the same engine
Vulkan benefits arent big enough to justify everyone switching over to it yet

>Yeah, look at all these games they are releasing
Yeah, let's ignore this dominant release platform that has a built-in DX-to-Vulkan player.

>Also, Bethesda only got in on Vulkan because of AMD
[citation needed] + so what? They already released the first Vulkan only game, and solidified it as a heavy weight alternative to DX.

>My fucking sides.
Nice arguments.

>DX12 has actual support
Yet no games.
But sure, if you want to kill your projects by making them into Windows Store exclusives, be my quest.

>free
>open-source
>open platform
>literally performs better than DX
>can be used to "translate" DX games

>not big enough benefits

>what the fuck does Vulkan have?
the potential to kill the hitler of companys

That's not all these graphics APIs are used for.
And if you're a studio about absolutely pushing the max performance you can out of the given hardware, something tells me Unreal Engine 4 and Unity isn't the best route to take, despite the optimizations and improvements over the years.

sony?

sony, epic games and everything else is completely harmless vs microshits history.

sony are the worst company to ever enter gaming. if it wasn't for microsoft we wouldn't even have pc ports because sony were trying to lock developers into their shitty consoles.

Microsoft's gonna extinguish the competition.

>in the same way that a lower-level programming language like C++ requires more work than something like, say, Python

This isn't even true though. Modern low level languages can be more expressive than something as simple and limited in terms of abstractions as python.

Yes, this guy gets it. However it's important to know that the way vulkan achieves threading is by making your code MORE responsible for state tracking. So it's great that you can make lots of workers that build up command queues and send them to the Vulkan layer independently but as an engine developer it's essential that YOU make sure this won't cause race conditions and trashed rendering from incompatible workflows.
For instance, an user asked a while ago why console games often use dithering instead of real transparency and it's basically because of this. They don't use vulkan but they used a similar style of API much earlier. Transparency requires ordered draw calls which means additional concurrency tracking. Dithered opaque pixels can be done arbitrarily. This is an example of what we mean by DX/OGL is "easier".

Considering Microsofts wild incompetence, they are at best the Mussolini of companies.

Knowing microsost they'll propably hire assains and use the gates cash to buy a "get out of jail for free card"
who cares about gaming and ports, you have no clue about microsoft.

Linux, yes. Mac doesn't do vulkan, it has Metal. But to be honest they are similar enough that making a metal version of your vulkan renderer isn't the worst punishment to inflict on a developer. In an emergency you can use MotenVK which translates vulkan to Metal at runtime but maybe spend the extra week to make a real metal engine.

>who cares about gaming and ports
>gaming board
>thread about gaming technologies

fuck off back to your pajeet board if you want to complain about things other than games.

>using microsoft gamepass, or playing any game from microshit store requires to get an account
>using those forces you to install the windows version they want
>installing this the version automaticly installs unwanted apps
>once you're registered with microsoft you'll "allow" them to constantly track whatever you do, your whereabouts etc
thanks for saving gaming microsoft

That's a popular sentiment, but speaking from experience pre-baked engines are just a different kind of time sink. If you give a good programmer the information they need up front, they will batter out the code no problem. It will take a while to design and test your renderer, model loader, sound engine, animation system, controls, etc. etc. but the end result will be something tailor made to exactly how they work and what the game needs.
Unity/UE4 give you all that up front BUT now instead of coding, the programmer is trying to get up to speed with YEARS upon YEARS of SOMEONE ELSE'S CODE. So development is in fits and starts. You get a player running around a map with most of the shaders working, 3D audio working, controllers working... but none of the logic. Then 2 weeks later they have 3 different false starts trying to figure out the "right" way to get the logic to work because sometimes applying force to a physics object causes it to phase through collision planes and it's just something you need to know and how to work around it...

First they need to Embrace and Extend.

I dont get why people complain about epic games spyware when windows is a trojan horse,

This list looks small, no?
pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DirectX_12_games

Doesn't always provide benefits for Nvidia, that's incorrect. DOOM runs great with OpenGL, and all Vulkan does is introduce stuttering. Probably just implemented poorly.

Here's vulcan.
pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Vulkan_games

As long as the documentation is good, working with a premade engine takes an absolute fraction of the time it would take to build a new one. You are at least aware that there's more to an engine than just putting triangles on the screen, but the amount of time it takes to make an engine, including all the things you mentioned, a sensible way to deal with threads, a good underlying data management system (since this will eat most of your resources) while also documenting everything so you know what the fuck is going on six months down the road AND THEN making all the tools to actually have a good workflow to MAKE the game is eyewatering. People always forget that part, getting to just drag and drop shit around is a godsent to game making.

>Half of them are decades old games that are [hackable]

Let's be real here, we are probably going to skip to DX13, when they just take the lessons learned from 12 and Vulkan while Vulkan is still trying to implement features DX12 already has.

Too much work for the developer, even if it is better, the market has shown people will take the ez route.

This is the fatal flaw with Vulkan, DX12, Mantle, Metal, and any other thing like it. DirectX 11 and lower, and OpenGL are, in a way, like Java. Higher level programming that because there's more information available to the driver and less low level control nvidia get to micro-optimise specific workflows to work the best with their cards.
But vulkan passes much of that work onto the developer who is naturally not going to micro-optimise for a 1060,1070,1080,2060,2080,Titan X, etc. etc.
The problem is DX11 and OGL3 were dead end technologies. Remember AssCreed Unity where shit just didn't work and Ubisoft had to explain that theywere at the physical limit of draw calls that could be issued by DX11 and faster CPUs weren't going to fix it, only a new API would fix it.
The new API has drawbacks. So what you'll find is newer video cards will be designed with vulkan in mind and will eschew off the wall designs in favour of more consistent designs. Whether this will be good for the industry going forward I don't know.

there is nobody "partnering" with devs and publishers to use vulkan because it's an open standard. on the other hand you have ms who not only has the inertia of DX but also controls a large share of the developer market through their visual studio products. combined with their cash reserves, this gives them a lot of leverage to convince devs to stick with DX even though it is an objectively worse long-term strategy. you can tell who is taking bribes from ms by looking at which publishers are using or experimenting with vulkan vs those who are all-in on DX12. the DX12 list are all the usual suspects of greedy AAAs

like AB for example. they are rewriting the renderer for wow but have a special deal with ms to use a proprietary backwards-compatible version of DX12 that works with older windows. why the fuck would either party bother with this kind of shit? it's obviously a better choice for blizzard to use vulkan instead to ensure future support for old windows. and why would ms bother backporting DX12 just for one game that isn't even theirs? well, the obvious answer is that ms wants to bribe blizzard to use DX12, and blizzard said they would do it only if they can keep their win7 user base. so that's how we got this weird deal happening.

I think it's more a matter of devs that really give a fuck about the tech make vulkan releases, than vulkan being intrinsically better than dx.

>Total War: Three Kingdoms uses Vulkan

huh, maybe that explains why it's so incredibly better optimised than Warhammer and Attila.

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test

because
>engines take a long time to develop
>it's extremely fucking verbose
>most developers are really fucking stupid and can't handle low level concurrency that requires manual memory synchronization
>the games industry does not pay well enough to employ those that can
>it's extremely fucking verbose
weirdly comfy to use though, best API