Learn Japanese to enjoy fine Japanese media

Wasei eigo is the bane of my existence. You don't know what hell is like until you realize that ペプチド is supposed to be peptide.

where do take the japanese pill i wanna learn

Learn English first.

itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html

>step 1: go to DJT
>step 1.5: read the fucking guide

>he didn't know
youtube.com/watch?v=l6R0gc8pnmE redd white is great

Step 2: ignore everything else in /djt/

How is the Phoenix Wright anime? Does Phoenix have half the personality he has in the games? He seems like such a dime-a-dozen straight-laced anime protag in all the clips I've seen.

I'll be honest, I thought he was supposed to just be an ignorant American up until the part where you're grilling him in one of your 尋問's and Naruhodo is like "yeah buddy, you're Japanese too..."

it's not great. everything is really rushed and is full of QUALITY moments. but it's fun to hear what everyone sounds like and shu wrote a new case for one of the filler eps that was pretty ok, so it's not the worst I guess

oh huh, yeah I assumed he was an expat businessman or something. interesting

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Yeah, with the American-tier wordplay コナカルチャー, the name that appears like something a dumbshit American might have found amusing because of the chosen Kanji 小中大, and the fact that he himself bitches about Japanese being difficult due to his time spent in the States.

Would have been a little more interesting if they'd have just run with that.

Him just being a huge fucking westaboo is pretty funny too desu

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Either way, makes him being guilty equally satisfying.

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If Donald Trump were a Phoenix Wright character and got his own hands dirty.

It’s still really bizzare that this is what we ended up with for the live action movie. Everyone else was pretty good, but then you get weird emo redd white

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First season is pretty meh and botched the delivery of a number of otherwise hype moments from the game including 1-4. Second season did a much better job at adapting things, but they sucked the wind pretty thoroughly from the reveal of Godot's real identity relative to the games since it's very unsubtly teased about halfway through the season.

>小中大
Someone explain this to me.

"Small Medium Large"

That's why I asked. I know what his name means, I

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>learn Japanese to enjoy all the niche hentai manga
>End up falling in love with the culture, food, and people.

I did not sign up for this...

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The trilogy lets you choose from several languages you dont need to play it in jap
unless you want to then thats fine too

Gotta understand how the wordplay of the Japanese names in this series work.

成歩堂 = naruhodo = "right" or "indeed"
矢張 = yahari = "of course" or "naturally" or "as expected"
千尋 = chihiro = is a little more complex as it literally means "great depths" but in Chirio's literal case, also plays on the fact that during her "尋"問/Cross examinations, she will press 1000"千" different ways to get someone to slip up, as she is famous for.
真宵 = mayoi = 迷い = being lost, doubtful, having indecision (as an aside, also "unable to achieve spiritual enlightenment), which considering her sister bites the dust and she's a naive spirit channeler in training, makes sense. And the Kanji don't really come out as anything terribly interesting, "true evening" if you wanna read it that way.
御剣怜侍's name is just too badass for a normal person to have.

And then the rest of the people will have names like
小中大 = little big small
宇在 = uzai = annoying (possibly also, 宇宙's 宇+在 to imply that this dude "lives in space" because he's such a weirdo)
狩魔 = karuma/karma = hunting demon/spirit/etc

Basically, I feel pretty bad for the localizers having to deal with this series, and am forever impressed with the outcome of at least the first 3 games.

>御剣怜侍's name is just too badass for a normal person to have.
Explain this one

"sword cleverness"

御剣怜侍 = mitsurugi reiji
御 = honorable/honorific (often, you'll hear shit like o-samurai-san, o-hanashi, o-negaishimasu, this character is that O, appears in other ways as well like GO in go-riyou, go-ran, go-yukkuri)
剣 = sword. straight up fucking sword.
怜 = wise
侍 = the literal character for SAMURAI which is typically read SAMURAI when on its own.

It's the equivalent of naming your kid something like Courage Wolfe.

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Based Edgy

I fucking despise katakana.
The way nips adapt foreign words phonetically is infuriating.

Is the OP joke that puns in Japanese work badly or is he talking shit about ace attorney I’m trying to decide if I should be triggered

I got used to it a long time ago, but every now and then certain ones still annoying me. French rendered in Katakana feels like witnessing a crime.

>Lemon is レモン
>Lemonade style softdrink became ラムネ
I genuinely hate every English inept retard who coopted English words into moon. They're the hardest words to understand in Japanese by far.

>pheonix
>personality

The pic in op is just talking in bad English, written out in Japanese characters.

OP is mad because that character is using english words.

He's talking about the fact that Redd White sounds like an absolute westaboo in Japanese. He likes to speak in Japanglish.

>Looking for duckfat online
>Search all combinations of 鴨脂肪 and get nothing
>Finally figure out I needed to search カナールオイル
I hate the nips so much.

My fucking sides

There's definitely a right and wrong way to do Katakana shit, but I sometimes wish Japanese would try and utilize the thousands of Kanji they don't use and assign entire foreign words to them or something for the sake of making shit more readable.

I know Ateji is an even worse cancer, and nobody wants to learn even more Kanji, but I fucking hate when a single word takes up half the dialogue box to convey almost no meaning.

Good uses of Katakana include:

- Character hears a word they don't know or understand, and "say" it in Katanana which marks that fact (which also gives the reader a chance to learn how to say the word if they didn't know the word too)
- Robots speaking
- in works with limited or no kanji, using Katakana to denote "big" or otherwise "usually kanji" words to make sure you don't mix them up with the rest of the surrounding Kana.

actually that's about it.

The dialogue in the games is extremely flavorful. If you think otherwise, you're long overdue for a replay.

>Learn japanese
>Get triggered by katakana
>Realize you don't actually know anything and are trolling on a underwater basket weaving forum
I'll give you points for Ace Attorney though, AA could always use more threads

>Realize you don't actually know anything
I've been living in Japan for years. The hatred of them using butchered English because it sounds cool to them instead of using their own words that already exist is something you only gain from having lived here and using the language daily.

>is something you only gain from having lived here

Nah, it's annoyed me for years and I still haven't even taken a trip to Japan yet.

>tutoring my friend in Japanese
>every time he runs across new katakana words like セクハラ or リストラ he always says “wtf they don’t have a word for that??”

Every time I have to explain that they do but they like the sound of the English word better. But those hilarious Japs just love to borrow words and then shorten them

>Nah, it's annoyed me for years
New dimensions will be added to your hatred if you ever live here. A coworker said pinchi hitta to me, and when I told them to just say 代打 they said they didn't know that word.

>セクハラ
You can pretty much add hara to everything. I've heard things ranging from acahara (academic harassment) to nioihara (smell harassment).

I already hate myself for learning a fuck ass ton of kanji that I was told "nobody uses" because I figured it wouldn't hurt to learn more of them, and it's honestly not that difficult since they're usually super obvious.

Had a friend tell me that he's been alive for 40 years and has never seen the kanji for くすぐる (擽る) and that he didn't know how to read it when I sent it to him. Politely asked me to "use kana only for words with difficult kanji or very limited meaning/usage."

Gotta play by their rules, I suppose, but it's kind of pathetic that even people who should know the language can't even say they know it at times.

>代打
>literally substitute hitter

I really love how logical *most* Japanese words are once you know a lot of kanji

Well just like most English speakers besides people who studied it wouldn’t be able to tell you why most grammar is the way it is or what certain words mean, lots of Japanese people just “know” the language but never studied it in depth. I’m sure some people from other countries know English way better than I do and could teach me a lot even though I’ve spoken it my whole life

That doesn't even faze me anymore. I have friends who read a lot and play a lot of fantasy games, so I just talk to them about it or ask them questions about difficult kanji. There are always words they'll say "Just use kana" for, though, no matter how well read they are. Some of it's for good reason. If you write 兎に角 instead of とにかくin a text message, you'll come off like an absolute twat.

You're aware the English games are rewrites, right?

It's obvious they took liberties, even without seeing Japanese script. But it's not like they wrote the games from scratch, right?

I always wonder how many of our beloved 90s classics had butchered translations.

If you enjoyed it, then it must not be butchered.

"Professional" translations might as well be writing from scratch, innumerable games have been glossed over and given a translation that "works in english", destroying characters and themes.

>How is the Phoenix Wright anime?
Bad. Japan sucks at adapting mystery VNs. We've seen them fail with Danganronpa and Umineko, and they failed with Ace Attorney, too.
>Does Phoenix have half the personality he has in the games?
Exactly half.

>If you write 兎に角 instead of とにかくin a text message, you'll come off like an absolute twat.

>TFW reading something that's supposed to be old Japanese and you keep seeing 此れ and 此処

Always weird to see words that are basically only ever written in kana written in kanji.

As a kid I enjoyed watching a puppet count to 10, I don't believe that version of me really cared about any words presented to me in any form.

All of them.

That's only for literature or games with old settings. No one does that in daily life.

Probably a lot. I've only played a handful of 90s games in Japanese I think. Mostly FF, DQ, Chrono Trigger, some Marios... Okay, little more than I thought. But yeah, a lot had issues.

not having iconic music made this unwatchable for me.

I'm not really interested in what a turbo-weeaboo has to say on the matter. "Muh accuracy" is inferior to a dynamically written script. I don't know if you've noticed, but Japanese in anime and manga is bland and flavorless, frequently repeating the same phrases and reacting to events in precisely the same way. Most protagonists can be copy-pasted into any other plot and you wouldn't know the difference. Things aren't better just because it rigidly recreates the way it was written for Japan.

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Yeah I know no one does that in real life, I'm just saying it's always weird to see them in kanji. They were used so much in Fatal Frame III that I actually learned to recognize them though. The writers of that game had such a fascination with old Japanese that they even took a note from Fatal Frame II which was written normally in that game, and re-wrote it in old Japanese in the third game.

Imagine the puppet was actually counting DOWN from 10 in the original Japanese. Do you really feel like you missed out now?

Sure, bland moments in english could be attributed to them being bland in japanese, but more than likely the actors had no direction whatsover and simply read their lines. Just listen to SH2 vs SH2HD (Ignoring the games with truly TERRIBLE english va's). HD had no direction, never acted out a single scene of SH2, and read their lines exactly as they were told. Does it make a good translation? Yes, they read the lines correctly, that's about it.

I remember when I was a freshman in college and we were learning to read katakana and our Japanese teacher (who was fresh out of college teaching her first class ever) thought it'd be really helpful if she wrote a bunch of Japanese words in katakana and had us guess what they were. Most of the words were pretty normal and we were able to figure them out without too much trouble. Until we got to シェープアップ. No one in the class had the faintest idea what it was supposed to be and Ms. Kishi kept trying to pantomime it to us by do various exercise moves. This only confused us more which only encouraged her to get more and more desperate with her pantomimes. Finally she gave up and wrote "SHAPE UP" in English on the blackboard which caused everyone to go "ooooohhhh...wait what?" Eventually we figured out that it means to get in shape which caused everyone to break out in laughter while imitating Ms. Kishi's hilarious pantomimes.

Yeah I get annoyed by the amount of shit translators get. There are a lot of bad pro translators, most definitely. But there's a lot of changes in localization that makes sense that I see people complain about. I always assume they haven't known Japanese that long yet or just don't think about natural sounding translations, because there was stuff I saw when I was new to the language and said "But why would they change that? That's stupid" too, but several years later, most of them working in translation officially and unofficially, I understand a lot of changes I see in localization, even if I don't always agree with them.

So was he Donald Trump? I mean really. Was he?

>alcoholic

Nope.

What the fuck? Did they not get the rights? Watching Ace Attorney without "Turnabout Sisters" playing is something I don't want to think about.

I like how "feminist" means "ladies man" in Japanese.

He was the typical american businessman, if you attribute him to Donald Trump it's because you see him as the typical successful businessman

I'm sure you've actually read a lot of manga and haven't just read 10 or 15 popular shounen battle series scanlated by incompetent ESLfag translators.

Never played it. Last thing I played in ye old moon was Sekiro.

You'll learn to guess a lot from what they could maybe sound like in English and the context they're used in. I knew what コスパ immediately the first time I heard it.

I know right, this shit is happening a lot.
They would prefer to simply write down the pronunciation of the English word in katakana rather than create their OWN word. and there is no fucking way to comprehend the word without "DUDE JUST MEMORIZE IT"
Learning modern Japanese vocabulary is like you are learning a broken ass English vocabulary without combination and derivation.
I don't get it why they create so much trouble for themselves. Is it just because it sounds so COOOL

In my textbook there was a whole section on words that are borrowed from English but have different meanings. Someone who is ナイーブ (naive) is sweet and uncomplicated, プリント (print) is a flyer, バイキング (Viking) is buffet but also means Viking, etc

See
They have their own word but they like borrowing words because like you said, they sound cool. I think you’re overestimating the difficulty of understanding the words though. For every 10 new katakana words I encounter only 1 or 2 will I have to look up to be sure of the meaning

>I'm sure you've actually read a lot of manga and haven't just read 10 or 15 popular shounen battle series scanlated by incompetent ESLfag translators.
I like how you didn't actively deny what I said. Japanese is not a rich language. Sure they have 5 ways to write the same damn thing, but it's not dynamic when spoken.

I'm just curious how much Donald Trump contributed to the archetype of the American businessman

Is that Kira

>I knew what コスパ immediately the first time I heard it.
Generally wasei eigo is much easier to understand when spoken than when written, at least for me. Also, I have 2級 in the jlpt now and I used to watch a lot of 笑い番組 so I'm pretty good at picking up meaning from context.

>I like how you didn't actively deny what I said.
There's plenty that I like and dislike about the language, but we both know that my assessment of your manga knowledge is spot on, and that you don't know a lick of Japanese. No, reading about the language in the internet and looking at anime subs doesn't mean you know the language. So tell me, why would I try to have a real discussion with you on a topic you know literally nothing about?

I personally like how you singled out that response
Read his book (everyone will tell you he didn't contribute to it though)

>language is so cumbersome that even the Japanese hack off bits of words when writing and you end up with incomprehensible nonsense

Imagine if we started saying shit like ViGa instead of video games.

>Japanese is not a rich language. Sure they have 5 ways to write the same damn thing, but it's not dynamic when spoken.

I used to play Japanese games in Japanese *constantly*. I did this for like, 6 years and lately I've started playing in English more often, and I've been wondering if that's one of the reasons.

Imagine if we said vidya instead of video games, boy that would be wild haha, just crazy lmao!

>successful businessman

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Fuck off faggot

Keep up the passive-aggressiveness weeb.

What should I have responded about to the guy commenting about a specific example? I read what he said, I just didn't have anything to add. How about the guy agreeing with me? Should we just keep going back and forth agreeing?

No one but Yea Forums spergs say vidya.

I mean it really only happens when they borrow words from other languages so wouldn’t it be those languages that are cumbersome? Unless that’s what you meant in which case I apologize. Loan words in Japanese is basically that skit from the Office with “why so many word when few word do trick” and I can appreciate that

Youknow Forsure is a good name
so is Clever Swordege

Imagine if we just turned can not into can't that'd be like the downfall of the west I better wash my penis

You shouldn't respond, you should do some research on your own beyond shonen manga

Look up ゲハ.

>You know nothing about this topic and have nothing worthwhile to say
I know you don't know any moon, and now I know you don't know English. Which part of that sounds passive to you? You're an idiot.

I took Chinese in college and I sucked at it because of shit I had during a semester making me miss Chinese for a year and general laziness. If I've already done prepwork for 汉子, am I set to learn Japanese?

What makes it cumbersome is that Japanese has a much more limited palette of syllables that they use for words so when they borrow words from other languages they often become frankensteinian monstrosities and so Japanese people often come up with ways of shortening loan words that sounds really strange to westerners.

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>mayoi = 迷い = being lost, doubtful, having indecision (as an aside, also "unable to achieve spiritual enlightenment)

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Imagine not playing the Ace Attorney games in English.

Arguing that because the original script is of questionable quality that it deserves to be rewritten and "improved" is the exact garbage mentality that gives us shit companies like Treehouse and 8-4.

>HMM YES, GLORIOUS NIPPON, I won't let baka gaijins speak ill of you!
Suck my dick.

>know nothing about Japanese
>use English wrong because you're retarded
Are there any languages you actually know?

No it doesn't. Rewrites can be justified if the rewrite is actually BETTER. Accuracy for accuracy's sake misses the chance of having the best script you possibly can. If you think you can't possibly do better than average anime writing, you aren't very ambitious.

you're a non-argument NIGGER, the board quality would improve if you stopped posting.

Treehouse gave us the Paper Mario games as well as Mario and Luigi, though. People only shit on them because of Fates.

There you go again. Where did I use English incorrectly, retard?

To be fair, in localization we got "Dead Mann".

>I don't care about the actual work
Fuck you.

Not that guy, but I think you misunderstand. When you translate, you will get stuff that sounds like shit. If you're translating academic documents or battery manuals or something it's not as important, but it's very important in entertainment translations to sound natural. Any decent translator attempts to strike a good balance between accuracy and sound natural. That's just translation. It's a far cry from chucklefucks like NoA or Plus Alpha changing entire lines or characters "Because I can, lol!".

>some madlad is actually playing AA in japanese
Neat.

The anime has
>Objection!
>Cross-Examination Allegro
>Pursuit ~ Cornered
>Steel Samurai
>DL-6 Incident
>Steel Samurai's Ballad
and that's it. The rest is original compositions. I don't think the second season added any new music from the games.

>post non-argument
>get non-argument back
Whoa, way to cut to the root of the problem. Selective vision jackass.

>Rewrites can be justified if the rewrite is actually BETTER.
Thinking that the rewrite is better is entirely subjective and again this is exactly the sort of mentality that produces companies like Treehouse and 8-4. I don't think X rewrite is better, but you do. I might think Y rewrite is better, but you don't. Who gets to say who is right?

Or fuck, it was "Deid Mann".

When has rewriting something been better, and who was it better for? Casuals who don't give a fuck about the series? Why do you think people fan translate in the first place?

>Reminder to follow the ultimate guide

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外来語(gairaigo 'words from outside' 'loan words') still gets me from time to time and I've been learning for years. I came across this one earlier today- バックシャン (bakkushan) I thought I was having a fucking stroke. Clearly the first word is the English word 'back', but what the fuck is the second half? Was it English? I'm a native English speaker and nothing I could think of would fit. After spinning my mental rolodex for far too long and looked it up, and of course! It's fucking German: schön (beautiful). You use it when you want to talk about a woman that looks good from behind and it carries a connotation that she might not look good from the front. It does get irritating when they mix loanwords into each other, but I don't believe no matter how many years I study there will always be new slang and colloquialisms that make no sense to non-natives. Such is life.

You'll probably do better if you try to enter your Japanese classes without any preconceived notions you got from studying Chinese. Japanese uses 漢字 very differently from Chinese and the meanings for characters has diverged pretty significantly over the years. Knowing Chinese can help some when learning new vocabulary, but a lot of times it can be a false friend.

>花火
SOUL

>ファイアワーク
SOULESS

NoA can be very good, but it depends. They're pretty bad at times, and were especially bad in the Wii U days. They've been better for the last few years, but even in BOTW they removed all references to body weight (two I remember being the Hateno tour guide saying he needs to go on a diet and the guy who asked you to donate to a Great Fairy saying that she must be slim and beautiful) because someone an oversensitive fat person might get upset.

I'm not advocating throwing out the entire plot. But flavor text can definitely be improved upon for English speaking audiences.

Yeah, but you got to keep in mind they're translating for the pissy western audience. They're a business first and foremost, of course they're going to try to avoid controversy whenever possible. BotW isn't a 97 for nothing.

See, the problem is you are operating on some assumption that the original is the best something can possibly be. Obviously that's often not the case. Casuals? What are you implying here?

I told you that you know nothing and have nothing to contribute to a discussion. You called that passive-aggressive. There's nothing passive about that. You're an idiot who doesn't actually understand the English words you're using. So let me ask again; are there any languages you actually know?

>Any decent translator attempts to strike a good balance between accuracy and sound natural
Tone IS part of accuracy. ESLfags think that Japanese into English is only accurate if it's blocky and unnatural, but if I character speaks natural, normal Japanese and you make them speak awkward, stilted English then that's just as inaccurate as throwing in random memes and jokes that don't exist in the script.

>People only shit on them because of Fates.
And Xenoblade X, and #FE, and Fatal Frame 4, and Animal Crossing, and whatever else they fucked up that doesn't immediately come to mind.

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That's still a rewrite and whether it's an improvement or not is entirely subjective.

I've resigned myself to my fate with the loanwords. I just hear them then tell my coworkers get their own fucking words.

>hating bad localizations means you hate Japanese culture
Nani the fuck?

That's not "fucking up", that's just some dumb joke made to poke fun at purists like you. Fucking up would be a translation/localization so bad none of the plot elements get across.

>Tone IS part of accuracy. ESLfags think that Japanese into English is only accurate if it's blocky and unnatural, but if I character speaks natural, normal Japanese and you make them speak awkward, stilted English then that's just as inaccurate as throwing in random memes and jokes that don't exist in the script.

I hope you understand that I don't support that. I was talking only about when stuff sounds unnatural and needs a little (or a lot) of playing around with. You should absolutely do your best to maintain characters, speaking styles, etc. It's the tone and the information that matter, not the words specifically.

What the other guy said. You just completely misunderstood what was actually being complained about. If these chucklefucks in localisation were making any attempt to preserve the original intent of the line there wouldn't be a problem. But they're not doing that when they throw out the original completely to replace it with what they think is better and change the characterisation as a result.

Oh, I see. You're splitting hairs and harping on the difference. I guess you need whatever you can grip onto in this argument so you can feel like the winner. Saying I don't know the language isn't really an aggressive insult. It's tame, a backhanded statement without outright calling me stupid. So sorry to break it to you, it was very passive-aggressive. But you gave that up pretty quickly. I guess insulting grorious japan gets under your skin in short order. Keep fuming. Japanese is bland, and you aren't cultured just because you learned it so you could watch your animes without subs.

He means they wrote an attack on translation critics in lieu of just fucking translating the source material

>Fucking up would be a translation/localization so bad none of the plot elements get across.
Or, you know, rewriting an entire dialogue of character interaction with
...
...
...
...

Someone was very mad when he wrote that.

If I recall correctly, the original text was just him comparing a translation to the original language for the fun of seeing the differences, not bitching about changes. If that's not bad localization, I don't know what is.

That most people don't give a fuck about the dialogue so there's no reason to accurately translate what's being said, the audience can't fly into a rage at a few words on the screen and they should do everything in their power to avoid that. Beyond that, Voice actors should simply read the script, and not give a fuck, just read it as they think it should be read. Another example: 95% of the English VA in puyotetris

Yes, but if it's more appealing to audiences abroad, that subjectiveness is worth the effort, or else people just don't latch on. If everything is subjective, there's nothing left to argue, we're both technically right.

>I hope you understand that I don't support that
I was expanding on what you said and venting about shitty ESL translators, not arguing with you.

>You're splitting hairs
>Say something that's completely wrong
>"That's wrong, you idiot"
>"Stop spliting hairs!"
You're so fucking stupid.

No, I understand that completely. I just see a lot of people who don't know the first thing about translation and they think if it's not completely literal, it's bad. Maybe I did misinterpret the post.

>Fucking up would be a translation/localization so bad none of the plot elements get across.
Hm.

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If you read more than a few words, you'd understand. I guess that's why you prefer Japanese, you can't read English.

A "natural translation" is not the same as a rewrite tho

Yeah, I know. I think he's overreacting.

I understand Treehouse has at times removed conversations, like in Fates, or gone a bit overboard with the censorship. Nowadays, they seem to be more lax with that stuff, I don't see much reason to doubt them. But that's just my opinion, I tend to prefer rewrites that make dialogue more fun, like early JRPGs and parts of the AA series.

It's part of his schtick and kinda funny. It's also the only person who does that

I know it's not worth mentioning because MONEY but the majority of the video game audience does not deserve being catered to and should be wiped out

What the FUCK was wrong with X's translation? You're a nigger.

Good catch, he reads the first sentence then responds based on his worst assumptions

See, now you're arguing for localisation to suit a different culture instead of actually translating the material. Localisation like that is entirely contrary to translation.

Yo mr. moon rune man, there's something I always wondered: how the fuck did the whole "muffler" misunderstanding work un japanese? They had to butcher it pretty hard for German and I assume other languages too, so I'm curious.

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>Courage Wolfe

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

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Seconding this, I'm really curious too.

was that the game where they removed the boob slider for some bizarre reason?

Yes, only medium sized boobs allowed.

Yes, along with a bunch of outfits entirely while other outfits had additional clothes added to them. But the localisation itself was Treehouse's typical shit full of rewrites for no reason, the setting be damned.

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>He's mad at the name of mechs being changed.
This is the most non-issue thing I've ever seen anyone complain about, holy fuck.
Was that still part of the Japanese X? I'm not sure. Either way, that's an overall localization issue, not a translation one. A fucking stupid decision, but we're talking about translation.

Clearly naming a giant robot a "Doll" in English sounds kinda dumb. In Japanese it may be a cool, exotic word, but in English it just doesn't fit well considering everyone thinks of Barbies whenever they hear about a doll. "Skell" is a much more dynamic and aggressive word.

>the game is so hard that most players don't know about the final boss, and only a small handful of the players that know about it have even attempted it.

Attached: 2c248f552d097134b377d8caa9a67169_cropped.jpeg.jpg (717x552, 94K)

It's sad how many bad translators work as paid translators. I'm going to claim that I am one of the seven Lords of Translation or anything, but I do care about translations that are accurate and sound good. As others have said you have to sacrifice one for the other sometimes, but I do what I can. But some just don't care. I used to work in a manga company, and one of my duties was to perform TL checks on works. I'm never heavy handed about it and basically never pull rank or anything to get my way. I don't want to stifle other translations or anything, I just help out. But there was this one woman who thought I was this really strict guy who wouldn't let her have any fun because I told her to stop making shit up just because she felt like it a few times. She came from another company that didn't give a shit how she translated as long as they got something in English, so I guess I was a real pain in her ass.

Nah I'm with the weebs here. You should commit suicide if losing an internet argument on an anonymous imageboard triggers you this hard.

>This translation is perfectly fine!
>I'm asking about translations that I personally don't agree with!

>get told
>samefag this hard

you're literally saying
>we're way too fucking insecure about our masculinity, so we need to change the name "doll"
with different wording

Ask me tomorrow, I'm just about to wrap up the 4th case and according to googling, this is from 蘇る逆転 so will report back with more info.

I've heard that one takes like fucking forever to finish though, so depending which "day" this testimony occurs on it may take time.

My first post ITT faggot. Accept that you are a shitstain and stop posting forever.

All I'm saying is Skell sounds cooler than Doll.

The robots in Daemon x Machina are called Arsenals, that's a cool as fuck name. It'd be lame if they were called Dolls. Would you name your giant robot Doll?

>not an original IP post
Now I know you're lying. Oops, did you not know we can see those?

Attached: 1538813636885.gif (480x270, 424K)

The translation IS fine though. Seriously, who get's mad over the name change of mechs?
>He has to turn this into an argument about "masculinity"
Sad.

my sides are in orbit. I'm just imagining them scrambling for a good comeback. A+.

>All I'm saying is Skell sounds cooler than Doll.
see
it's not supposed to be cool, dude

They're called dolls because they're humanoid puppets sized differently to actual humans. And so are the humans you play as in X.

I don't see why not, the name gives a lot of ideas about what they actually are, Arsenal doesn't make me think of anything but a weapon, which works fine for that series but why would it work for every setting?

"My first post ITT" as in the post you replied to by calling samefag was my first post you actual fucking retard.
Do you enjoy being blown the fuck out, is this what's going on here?

>losing meaning and obscuring purposeful foreshadowing is "fine"

I think it's a bit too on-the-nose, but I understand your point.

If you accept the mechs being nothing more than mechs than you really don't give a fuck about any metaphors and should enjoy the game for what it is.

Recently I learned MGS2 had butchered translation. To the point that at a few points his now famous catchphrase, Kept you waiting huh, got translated wrong a few times such as Were you waiting long?

>If you read more than a few words, you'd understand.
How stupid are you? You didn't argue against your blatant misuse of the word passive once. "You don't know what you're talking about and have nothing worthwhile to say" is not passive. I never said it was aggressive. If you could actually read English, you'd know this.

This post: Is not an original IP in the thread. It could not be your first post in the thread. You are a liar, and were caught in the act.

Attached: 1543454480177.jpg (500x375, 49K)

>the amount of shit translators get

This'll never end. A complete translation patch was recently finished for Fire Emblem Thracia 776, and a select few people still bitched about muh sanctity of the original text or whatever nonsense.

Attached: useless mage tries to read.jpg (517x600, 69K)

But piloting Skells literally comes after the mims twist. Sure you see them before, but they're just fucking mechs.
>This game shows humans in robot "dolls" just like how the human soul is inside a robot, that means this game is smart
They're just mechs, bro. Name change or not, they wouldn't be different to the millions of other mechs I'd see in media.

An example that has never been done in English is Goku from Dragonball. In the Japanese Goku is a super hick that isn't able to speak formally ever. In English he should sound like he came from the Blue Ridge Mountains. Instead he just sounds like a random dude from Fort Worth.

>Japanese kana are all pronounced the same!
Second favorite beginner meme, right behind "kanji is the hardest part".

Supposedly MGS1's translation was heavily altered by NA Konami to sound more "natural" in English, and Kojima got pissed. That's why the sequels have such weird language sometimes.

I don't know what you're referring to because I mostly see people complaining about garbage rewrites that shouldn't exist.

Attached: haha, that's our rean.jpg (1709x388, 266K)

Again, not caring about the the meanings put in place by the devs is fine, just enjoy the game dood, no need to wrack your brain.

why must learning japanese by yourself be so hard to just do
should i just cave into the autistic weeb in me and take japanese classes

>I'm just imagining them scrambling for a good comeback
It's not aggressive enough that they need a comeback. They just raff at my anguish. What's funny is when I get angry in moon and they tell me "Wow, you're really starting to sound like a Japanese person" so I switch to swearing at them in English.

What am I looking at?

>lies
>calls me a liar
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Either way please stop using this site.

A lot of people complain about things that are fine, but they don't understand the changes, like when a character says something that doesn't match the Japanese text word for word, but it has the same tone.

explain your stuff user, not everyone will get the reference

a professional translator shouldn't just worry about "what sounds cooler" or "this sounds lame" but in conveying the meaning, both overt, and the implied meaning set forth by the work they are translating.
The way professional jap->eng translators act is unheard of when you look at other language translators. When my country's brought some of the books of terry pratchett, for example, a great effort was made to convey the jokes, references, and everything else.
Meanwhile, eng-jap translators act super cocky saying "yah I pretty much rewrite everything I know better than you nerds lol get a life lmao"

>Supposedly
There's no supposedly about it, Jeremy Blaustein (Baldstein?) outright said that's what he did in multiple interviews, like the Hardcore Gaming 101 one, where he mentions that he made up the on-site procurement terminology, and the team knew Mei Ling shouldn't have a Chinese accent but gave her one anyway to make her voice stand out. So MGS1 is an overly liberal localisation while MGS2 is an overly literal one.

Goddamn, still putting up the act when you were caught red-handed. That's determination. Or idiocy.

Sorry, I thought you were trying to do some sort of dig at me not appreciating "the deeper meaning" of Skells. Those kinds of things don't bother me, in fact if they can be implemented well then that's great, but in cases like these where they don't seem to serve any deep meaning, I don't like seeing people bitching about "butchered" translation where it doesn't matter.

Ok, hope I'll be able to catch it. It's just so weird to me that it happens to work perfectly fine in english. That had to be planned in advance by the nip writers, right?

>hurr I don't care about the meaning I just want things to sound cool hurrr

Reminds me of Zupon

You misunderstand, they serve a deeper meaning, and you are a retard. I wish only death upon you, have a good tomorrow.

>explain
I just showed it to a Japanese coworker and they don't fully understand it. Don't try to think too hard about it. Just know that people pretending Japanese doesn't have tonal shifts or pitch changes are retards.

MGS2's translation is mostly good, though, GW's final speech being a particular highlight. MGS3 and 4 have much more stilted dialogue.

It's Japanese pitch accent, which is kind of like where you place emphasis in words in English.

I fucking knew it that the original game doesn't have all those "haha"s.

are you trying to say kanji isn't the hardest part or what

I read some stuff about problems in 1 were things like "it's not a (japanese kanji word for robot) it's a mecha"
But accidentally translating the main character catchphrase in a sequel is all on the translator fucking up.

It absolutely is not, and anyone saying it is is a fucking retard who knows nothing about Japanese.

>MGS2's translation is mostly good, though
But user, it has a handful of mistranslations, so this means the entire thing is complete shit and the translator is a hack who doesn't know any Japanese and Blaustein is a God who should've done the entire series.

then what IS the hardest part?
starting?

>but in cases like these where they don't seem to serve any deep meaning
But it did serve a meaning, and they changed it anyway, to something that sounded cool instead of just preserving the meaning. Are you retarded?

>Meaning is pointless because it doesn't serve to enhance your understanding of the work.
The mechs being called "Dolls" is pointless to me, and just seems like a way to go "ohhhh this game is smart!" When they call back to it later, when in reality it doesn't really mean shit. You guys ever see the movie "The Lovely Bones"? It tries to reincorporate almost everything it fucking shoves in your face. "Oh the dad talked about scale-models and in the afterlife there are some you can see, this move is so clever!!!" It means absolutely fucking nothing, and serves no purpose. I probably wouldn't care if the name was kept as "Doll", but I personally prefer "Skell".

This bullshit right here is why the localization needs to rely with it's own jokes.

Also fuck the japanese division for trolling the localization with Monstrous Turnabout and Turnabout Storyteller

I am determined to make you understand how much of an insufferable cunt you really are.
You think this is a place where you can just say whatever and everyone else is supposed to just take your word for it?
That was literally my first post in this fucking thread, other people who understand how these tools work would get it but you're just too fucking dumb apparently.
Maybe you are such a faggot that multiple people want you gone, did you consider that?
Obnoxious endless replies to anyone and everyone who rightfully calls you out on your bullshit is just garbage and so are you. Stop posting.

Limited phonemes combined with they penchant to abbreviate and omit as much as humanly possible.

I mean, "We've managed to avoid drowning!" and "E.E." are still a thing, but the script works well enough.

MGS3's in particular I thought had pretty bad moments, particularly The Boss's speech and motivations, though that may just be on Kojima's writing

You keep acting like a retard thinking I'm going to change my opinion about you being a retard, why is that?

Are you trying to say outright mistranslation is better than loose localization?

>The mechs being called "Dolls" is pointless to me
>to me
Key point. Just because you don't care or you don't think it was that smart doesn't change that the author chose to implement such things purposefully and the localisation fucked with the author's intent by changing it.

youtube.com/watch?v=jYApK42Stzw

Ḑ̵͙͇̠͈̺̩̭̣͙̀̆͋̌̒̇̒̽͗̀̌̃̋͂͘Ŕ̵̢̢̻͉͍͈̩̦͇̻̳͔͕͖͆Ị̸̮̬̯̦̻͇̏́Ń̵̜͉̫̼̻̑̀̓͑̑̇̐͌̿̋͘͝͠K̷̢̧̛͉̜̪̬̀ ̸̧̨̡̮̟̱̬͐͗́̔́̉̎̏̓͛̉̚͝Ḇ̶̘̝͕̟͉̭̬͔̿̀̐̑͗́Ë̷̹͓̟̳́̈́͂̉̊̓̈́̏̎͛̃̚͝Ę̶̧̛̛̗̤̝̹͚̤̏͌̌͌̿̔͊͒̑͘͜ͅR̶͓̗̮͚̻̈́͗̉̓͋̈́͆͒ͅ

>I am determined to make you understand how much of an insufferable cunt you really are.
That much is clear if you're willing to pretend to be multiple posters agreeing with yourself. It's dishonorable though, to want something so badly you'd stoop to any means.

Oh, and you can see original IP's with Yea Forums X, since you don't seem to comprehend how I can know this. I'm not just making it up that people can see when you lie.

President Trump*

>Basically, I feel pretty bad for the localizers having to deal with this series, and am forever impressed with the outcome of at least the first 3 games.
Yeah but then they also do retarded shit like pic related.

Attached: dr hotti.png (1419x963, 182K)

Not to mention that the Japanese word for "Doll" literally means "human shape"

Omission is only difficult if you're a brainlet who isn't aware enough to infer meaning.

Lalilulelo is an interesting change made in translation too.

>Niiku means meat
>This is the kanji
>Because the package has Kanji in it
>It sounds like Nick
>If you Katakarize your name, it's basically Meat and people will call you meat

Fuck the Nips, holy shit

Proper grammer and how to use it to form a conversation without sounding like a complete retard

You should start slipping them fucked up English words and pass it off as 'slang'. Although then you'd be directly contributing to the problem at hand. I've thought it over. You should do it. Maybe in another ten years I'll come across a particularly odd loan word and I'll know, it was you.

But it didn't serve a huge meaning, the mechs were shoved in your face the whole game, and it wasn't a subtle kind of foreshadowing you can take out of it. All it is, is you going "ohhh they're called "Dolls" because it's like how humans are inside of dolls, like how they're soul are in the mims". It doesn't heighten your understanding of the game, or make it seem any deeper.
>haha ur a retard cuz i said so
Fantastic argument, you really got me there.
>Author's intent is important
Only when it matters in making something good. Again, I wouldn't have minded if the name was kept to "Doll", but "Skell" just seems better overall. And sacrificing some random bit of reincorporation that means jack shit is fine. What, are you telling me it was super deep and was totally worth keeping in the game?

To be quite fair, it's an E10+ game made around the time Hot Coffee and moral puritanism was at an all-time high. I don't really blame them for raising red flags - especially since they tried to keep with the joke that Hotti is a pervert.

I'm saying that a faithful translation with some mistranslations is better than an unfaithful localisation full of blatant rewrites.

>Oh, and you can see original IP's with Yea Forums X
Yes faggot, of course I know. Everyone fucking knows, everyone but you. That's what I meant when I said that you don't know how to use it.
Yea Forums X doesn't alter reality after all you just don't understand how it functions.

Ask me how I know your frame of reference if simple SoL stuff where your definition of omission is "They leave the first person pronoun out of sentences."

The problem isn't so much the change itself as the utterly retarded explanation behind it where they act like Hotti is supposed to be some hilarious comic relief in Japanese and not just a creep to them too.

Is it fun acting like an uneducated retard and thinking anyone will take you seriously?
Real answer only, please

I feel like its too late for me to learn japanese. I already went through my weeb phase and watched all the essential anime. All anime out now sucks and isn't my taste, so that wouldn't be a motivation.

>But it didn't serve a huge meaning, the mechs were shoved in your face the whole game, and it wasn't a subtle kind of foreshadowing you can take out of it. All it is, is you going "ohhh they're called "Dolls" because it's like how humans are inside of dolls, like how they're soul are in the mims". It doesn't heighten your understanding of the game, or make it seem any deeper.
That's completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that the author did it on purpose and thus it shouldn't have been changed for the sake of sounding cooler.
>Only when it matters in making something good.
You thinking it isn't good is your own subjective opinion. The same could be applied to any bit of writing you liked in any game.

I just teach them English swears and slang. I teach one of my friends the many ways we can use the word "fuck" in English, so when talking to other people about lessons I give her, she refers to me as "Fucking Sensei". I don't have the heart to tell her the connotation that carries.

I literally can't undertand the boxes thing

Not him but I have done shit like told Japs itadakemasu means rubba dubdub thanks for the grub. I've also told them the slang for pretty woman is waifu.
I don't like it when Japs try to get free English lessons off me.

Ask me how I know you're an insecure faggot who has never actually spoken to another person in Japanese and just learned/is learning it to read porn.

What's the source for this?

Best scene in the Anime and Game.

Ask your English teacher, not us

Red is the proper translation, orange A, B, and C are proposed rewrites, white is the rewrite they went with.

>Weeb on a chink basketweaving forum criticizes billionaire who accomplishes more every waking second of his life than he will ever accomplish in 80 years of living

Contain your salt.

Well, there are a couple connotations for that but one of them is definitely going to be foremost in people's minds.

capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/11/21/localization-and-ace-attorney

>I-I know that! Everyone knows that! But you don't know it!
What are you doing? What are you even arguing? I'm pretty much done mocking you anymore, it's slowly becoming concern at watching you unravel like this.

Attached: 1529382291443.jpg (232x260, 8K)

Thanks

It's not "a hilarious comic relief", it's "making fun of pedos by pointing out how creepy they are", from what I gathered. The issue is that, in America, this joke wouldn't fly as well because of the cultural differences between the treatment of pedos in jokes.

Shit, the entire joke in the JP version is basically Phoenix going "what the fuck, no" to Hotti.

Capcom's Blog where they go over some neat stuff. Also includes translated interviews and a magic card show from Shu Takumi (in different articles by the same author).

capcom-unity.com/zeroobjections/blog/2014/11/21/localization-and-ace-attorney

I've lived in Japan for years and speak Japanese all day every day. You're mediocre Japanese skills aren't impressing anyone, even if you made a friend you chat with on Skype, or have vacationed here.

>daddy gives you $100 million
>"""accomplished"""

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FUCKIN'

>It's not "a hilarious comic relief", it's "making fun of pedos by pointing out how creepy they are", from what I gathered. The issue is that, in America, this joke wouldn't fly as well because of the cultural differences between the treatment of pedos in jokes.
>Shit, the entire joke in the JP version is basically Phoenix going "what the fuck, no" to Hotti.
Yes, and the problem is that they're under the impression that Phoenix going "what the fuck" is meant to be some prime Japanese comedy instead of just him being creeped out by Hotti the same as any westerner would be.

You've yet to make any real argument against me being an "uneducated retard". If you really want to go that route, you should've pointed out that I used the wrong "their" in one of the replies, then you really would've really gotten me! Anyways, stay mad that you have to pretend to be some kind of an intellectual.
>author did it on purpose
If people aren't going to find it deep, then I'll prefer a better sounding name. Sure, you're an asshole for changing the guy's original intent, but as a person playing the game, I literally only care about quality. And you say it's subjective, which I understand, but you didn't answer my question, which was: Did you find it super deep and worth keeping in the game? Would it have heightened your experience by keeping that in? I believe that there is subjectivity in what people find deep or not, but at some point there is a line that once crossed, people can agree that it doesn't mean shit.

Your an idiot.

no, I give up sensei. I can't do it anymore. Even you stopped studying and moved back home.

Can someone help me understand a bit of Phoenix Wright?
Why does Phoenix go 待った! ?
Wouldn't 待って!Make sense? Explain this to an idiot please.
Also, why 異議あり! ?
異議 is objection, so I'm assuming it's something along the lines of 異議あります。But that seems like a weird shortening.

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I said real answer, please stop deflecting and just answer the question

Matta means matte if you're yelling it. That's it.

Oh I see. I actually find A more disturbing than the original japanese

I can't give you a real answer, because I don't believe any of the words you've said about me, and I won't unless you provide me with a convincing argument.

Why do we yell objection instead of "I have an objection" in English? Same thing.

>If people aren't going to find it deep, then I'll prefer a better sounding name.
That sort of logic can be applied to anything to justify any change. You may as well argue for removing foreshadowing from a mystery novel because people wouldn't pick up on it.
>Did you find it super deep and worth keeping in the game? Would it have heightened your experience by keeping that in?
"Super deep"? No. I did think it was a nice touch, but that's all, and it's probably all it was intended as. I do however absolutely think it was worth keeping.
>I believe that there is subjectivity in what people find deep or not, but at some point there is a line that once crossed, people can agree that it doesn't mean shit.
Where do you propose that line is drawn, exactly? We don't agree on this, so how do you decide?

>I don't understand
Have it one more time then. I hate stupid faggots like yourself that can't ever accept that they were wrong on this anonymous imageboard. When I think of the kind of person that would act this way I am beyond disgusted. I'm telling you this so that you'll understand why I've been shitting on you for the last half hour or so.
Die in a fire and the board improves considerably. Also you cannot interpret simple Yea Forums X information and that's fact.

youtube.com/watch?v=wVHRj83wkqQ

The word they chose does not carry the meaning intended. The way we are meant to view the "mechs" has changed, and because of that we view the tone of using them differently.
Now answer me why you act like a retard in this manner, is it for fun?

I thought their point was that Japanese comedy uses this a lot as a punchline, whereas America doesn't. Granted, I know little about the topic outside of what I read there.

Thanks.

For 異議あり I thought 異議ある would be proper short form but obviously languages dont always abide by the proper rules etc.

>Don't you like dolls...?
>No way! What kind of nut do you think I am!?
>tfw dollfag

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Ari just means presence or existence. Don't overthink it. That's how they say some things.

I'm sure the average passerbyer who wanted to weigh in on a random post cares as much about shutting a random poster down as you do. And not someone with real investment in the argument. There are so many ways to prove you are a liar, and yet you persist. You didn't even have an insightful post. It was just you getting triggered about a post saying "suck my dick."
How you could get so deeply angry from that is baffling. I've been spending most of this time marveling about how weirdly invested this you are.

when I played Chrono Trigger you had to give the dude on the bridge and the mayor (?) in one of the quests en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotlet_schabowy
I still have no idea what's in the original, probably pork or beef or something

Uh I don't know much about japanese but when they use the stem of the verb it usually seems to make it into a noun.

Kind of like how in English we say Objection, which is the noun, not the verb.

Wait, he says... Do I look like a waiter?

Who the fuck do you think you are selfishly deciding what is and isn't a good use of katakana? Get your head out of your ass asshole.

The retarded grammar rules.
>Words ending in る are ru-verbs (except when they aren't)
>Words ending in anything else are u-verbs (except when they're ru-verbs)
>All u-verbs can end in any u sound and there is no rule for this so you need to learn the verb form of every single word and memorise it

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I got the same epiphany learning the language myself. Although I do think some things change are a bit questionable, but other times it makes sense why a specific thing was changed. That is why I started calling people retarded if I tell them why x is changed and when people were sperging over Catherine Fully Body Localization edits when journalist kept saying things were mistranslated on purpose to change transphobic lines because they never dabbled in learning a thing about Japanese.

Attached: 1559378188060.jpg (267x411, 31K)

English has a ton of weird grammar rules too, you just learned them as a kid so it was pretty intuitive. My native tongue is Spanish, I learned English at a young age so I don't have any problem with it, but a lot of my peers have trouble learning all of the weird little grammatical idiosyncrasies English has.

I've been studying Japanese for three years at a university, and I feel like a complete fucking idiot with no grasp of the language. How well are other anons with that long of experience doing?
I'm going to spend 4 months in Japan at the end of the year and I'm super nervous. People speaking fast and sentences that stack on grammar points kill me. Any tips?

Attached: 1454957253427.jpg (550x512, 41K)

Verbs in English are pretty simple, since 99% of them are taking the word and appending -ing to the end of it. I don't think there's anything in English as retarded as Japan's verbs.

There are many faggots like yourself all over the board. I'm just venting on you. If you don't like it then stop acting like such a cunt.
When you only defense is that I must be samefagging and there's no other way to explain this then you know you've fucked up somewhere.
It is strange and unusual to aggravate random passerbys and you've done it. Congratulations.

>at a university
That's your problem.

>Any tips?
Be prepared to ask people to repeat themselves slowly, and then be prepared for them to switch to broken English.

Geg that is beginner shit. You can tell if something is a る verb or う verb by looking at the vowel before the る. If it is a え or い it is usually a る verb, with only a few exceptions that are common enough you'll just memorize them like 帰る

>That sort of logic can be applied to anything to justify any change. You may as well argue for removing foreshadowing from a mystery novel because people wouldn't pick up on it.
Removing something based on people not picking up on it is dumb, if it adds to the experience, even on second read-through, it's fine. My issue is that in this case, it doesn't mean anything. I picked up on it instantly, and it didn't mean anything in the end.
>I did think it was a nice touch, but that's all, and it's probably all it was intended as. I do however absolutely think it was worth keeping.
To me, it didn't feel significant enough at all. In my opinion, having a better sounding name over something that tries to have significance which ends up not being very important. If they were going to end up naming the Skells something stupid, then the change wouldn't have been worth it. However, as it is, the name's fine.
>Where do you propose that line is drawn, exactly? We don't agree on this, so how do you decide?
Firstly, we have to determine what's achieved by the change, and as I've outlined previously, the change in this case provided a better final product. Secondly, we have to determine the significance of the foreshadowing/symbolism/allusion. And in this case, all it serves is to draw a parallel between mims and Skells, which I don't find to be very significant at all. In fact, if you wanted to draw parallels between these two things, I feel like it'd feel more meaningful on the player's part if it wasn't heavy-handedly telling you "hey they're called dolls, they're important". It feels too much in your face. I can give you an example of cases where I find symbolism done well, if you'd like.
I'll send a reply to you in a sec, the one for you combined with my reply for the other fellow reached the word limit.

Are your "friends" fluent in japanese?

If the translator thinks they can do better they should make their own fucking game (or book, manga, whatever).
No one gives a shit about what the translator thinks of the text, they haven't bought the translation to see the translator's story, they've bought it to see the original rendered in a way that is understandable to them.

But a name won't cause me to perceive mechs differently. You can try to humanize the mechs, but at the end of the day they're still mechs. Unless the purpose was to dehumanize the use of mims, and to say that they're as souless as mechs. But I doubt that's what it's going for.

user, you've been behaviing far worse than anything I've said or done in this entire thread. You've been raving at me this whole time about how I should die and suffer and burn and commit suicide. And you think I'm the one actively a detriment to the board? Really. Really?

I'd been self studying for about three years of which only one year was particularly productive before I went to Japan last month. I quickly realised that I was finding it incredibly difficult to talk in Japanese since I hadn't done any practice of it so what I did know didn't come to mind when I needed it, and I didn't know some basic things like how to ask for food at the restaurant or taken away. So my advice would be to make sure you know basic things you can expect to run into like that.
Language aside, GPS fucking sucks in Japan, map apps were unreliable as fuck while I was there, so don't rely on them much.

Sorry, peers should be in quotations, not friends

>with only a few exceptions
There are a lot more than a few.

It was frustrating, at first but when I learned about spaced repetition and how t use it proficiently I am having a lot more fun learning Japanese and am going to play AA1 in JP when I'm done via English. The way language is used is no different than learning anything else. When I got that epiphany, I felt like I can learn just about anything if I want and with the right tools.

JP Grammar rules aren't that bad, although I do feel bad about japs that has to learn step by step, because English Grammar will be a pain for them.

>You can tell if something is a る verb or う verb by looking at the vowel before the る.
Except for the exceptions, yes. And the far bigger problem was not knowing what the verb form will be for the u-verbs. Ru-verbs are the easy ones.

Okay but why do you refuse to answer the question?

Sorry, I don't know Japanese so I've no idea about its grammar, though I've heard it's hard. I was mostly talking about those grammar rules in English that people forget when learning that make their sentences look awkward and wrong. I don't have any examples though so I could just be talking out of my ass.

And no, my friends all speak Spanish.

>No one gives a shit about what the translator thinks of the text, they haven't bought the translation to see the translator's story, they've bought it to see the original rendered in a way that is understandable to them.
You're about to trigger all the "professional" translators who take themselves too seriously and think they're real writers.

>you only gain from having lived here
Cute, but pretty much everyone who learns Japanese comes to hate the language and its dumbass loanwords. You really don't have to live live there to know how annoying it can be, but I guess if you want to delude yourself into thinking all that money spent was worth it then go ahead.

Ah, fuck, I deleted my response to that when I originally tried to shorten it for the word-limit, but then forgot to add it back when I made a second reply altogether. My response to that is that I still don't see myself as a retard, despite the genuine argument you've provided me with, so I still can't properly answer that question.

>No, I don't have any experience living in Japan and as such have literally no idea what the fuck I'm talking about
>but let me tell you about your poor life choices
You're stupid.

Replace your use of English with Japanese and realize how dumb that post was

Yeah the University experience is good for having fun and meeting people with similar hobbies but not very conducive to learning.

The best I've ever been at Kanji is right now since I've been using Anki for three or four months. Studying in class was fucking worthless. I just need to grind sentences and listening, I guess.
I'm very prepared to ask people to go slower though, kek

I think I'm pretty confident on my basic stuff but if I've studied for three years and I'm going to spend some extended time there I'd hope to have real conversations.
Surprising with the GPS bit. Every youtube video I've seen about Japan recommends using google maps and such for navigating the trains, etc.

Spaced repetition, as in Anki? It's what I've been using for Kanji and it's very helpful. I think I should pick it up for vocab and sentences and such.

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>Removing something based on people not picking up on it is dumb, if it adds to the experience, even on second read-through, it's fine. My issue is that in this case, it doesn't mean anything. I picked up on it instantly, and it didn't mean anything in the end.
You have literally been arguing that it was fine to remove dolls because it wasn't important and people wouldn't pick up on it.
>In my opinion, having a better sounding name over something that tries to have significance which ends up not being very important.
The name sounding better is also your opinion.
>Firstly, we have to determine what's achieved by the change, and as I've outlined previously, the change in this case provided a better final product.
In your opinion, which I disagree with.
>And in this case, all it serves is to draw a parallel between mims and Skells, which I don't find to be very significant at all. In fact, if you wanted to draw parallels between these two things, I feel like it'd feel more meaningful on the player's part if it wasn't heavy-handedly telling you "hey they're called dolls, they're important". It feels too much in your face. I can give you an example of cases where I find symbolism done well, if you'd like.
Again, the significance isn't important. What was important was the author's intent. But thanks for making it clear that this is really all just "my opinion matters most" so I can stop reading your stupid fucking posts.

>And you think I'm the one actively a detriment to the board?
Absolutely you piece of shit. I don't go off like this on people often if that's what you're trying to imply.

The rewrites about the Black Knight's story in Radiant Dawn made the story far less retarded, but I still disagree with it being done at all, because the same mentality that produced those changes is what resulted in the garbage we got in Fates.

There really actually aren't that many exceptions, at least among commonly used words.
What do you mean what the verb form will be?
>All u-verbs can end in any u sound and there is no rule for this so you need to learn the verb form of every single word and memorise it
makes it sound like you think any single u verb can use ANY of the u sounds at the end. That isn't the case. Each verb ends in a single u sound. Like 遊ぶ ends in ぶ. Are you just saying you don't understand conjugation?

>and meeting people with similar hobbies
No it's not. University Japanese courses are full of low powerlevel SJWeebs who will never learn Japanese.

>tfw better at communication with all the nonsensical sounds in japanese than real words
I don't even know the real word for excited and just say doki doki and other dumb shit. Baffles me how they can figure out what I'm talking about. Especially when I say shit like Japanese hair is very fuuwafuuwa and my hair is poyapoya.

I'm just making the point that the languages we learn as kids also have their difficulties for other people. Spanish has a ton of weird shit that even I don't understand but use everyday.

What part of this conversation warrants all that you've said here tonight? Do you even know?
Go rethink your time spent here in this thread making this board an intensely shitty place while also claiming I'm the one being a detriment. While pretending anything I've said warrants flying off the fucking handle as long as you did. The hypocrisy is fucking astounding.

Absolutely based WAKUWAKU poster

Great job completely missing the point of my post. Impressive.

>You have literally been arguing that it was fine to remove dolls because it wasn't important and people wouldn't pick up on it.
No? My argument was that even if it is picked up on, it's still not important. It's super fucking obvious to pick up on, but it doesn't mean shit in the end. You don't gain anything from it.
>The name sounding better is also your opinion.
Take away the "meaning" you claim it has, and most people would agree with me on this.
>In your opinion, which I disagree with.
Something not meaning shit isn't really something you can disagree with, mate.
>Again, the significance isn't important.
Then what's the fucking point? It doesn't do anything for the work, and it can be taken out and nothing would change. As proven by the translation.
>What was important was the author's intent.
When his intent doesn't mean shit, it's not important at all.
>But thanks for making it clear that this is really all just "my opinion matters most" so I can stop reading your stupid fucking posts.
I've given objective reasoning as to why I think this way. In what way is it all "my opinion"?

>, at least among commonly used words
That depends on your definition of common.

What kind of University doesn't provide Japanese teachers and native speakers to practice language?

>Surprising with the GPS bit. Every youtube video I've seen about Japan recommends using google maps and such for navigating the trains, etc.
As a base for finding routes maybe, but don't expect it to be reliable. I don't know if it's from the tall buildings in Tokyo or all the people, but the GPS itself would constantly be fucked and regularly point to several blocks away from where I was. The actual directions system didn't update at all, and I have no idea why because it always worked fine back home, but in Japan it would never advance past the initial overview when starting navigation. And beyond that it would constantly give bizarre train routes with incorrect fair information and bad estimates of travel time, like it would often recommend doing transfers with bad directions from station to station when you could just stay on the first train to get to your destination instead. And it also would give me and my friend completely different route suggestions for going to the same place at the same time.
Basically Google Maps is fucked in Japan, so familiarise yourself with the train routes near where you're staying and where you want to go.

There are more exceptions to pluralization rules in English.

>completely missing the point
Your comparing two experiences, one of which you've never had, whereas I've gone through both. Explain what your point was and why you're not an idiot without making assumptions about something you've never been through, or desperately attempting to make things up about how or why I moved here.

The point is moot, it's common sense for anyone over the age of 15

Not the guy you're crying to but stop arguing. You're both equally retarded.

Softbank or Docomo? I have the exact same problem with gps and have been suggested it's cause I use Softbank instead of Docomo.

>Spaced repetition, as in Anki?
I don't use Anki since I find it a bit boring. it's a lot more fun using the language via Twitter with other japs and watch gameplays.

English is a language built in exceptions. It's not a good measuring stick.

Everything went better than expected.

Is it THAT hard to have a localization that keeps the meaning intact while still maintaining flow? I know there's sometimes some tricky cases but it seems like the whole dilemma is just a smoke screen perpetuated by hacks who couldn't cut it with their own stories so they leech off the stories of others.

Okay. meanie

You guys are doing the lords work.

If you get past the retard filter first one or two classes you're left with a good group of people, at least in my case. There's two or three people in my current batch of classmates I'd consider particularly embarrassing to be around.

We have Japanese-native teachers obviously but all the conversation/language practice is done between students which just leads to goofing around. Required, that is. People, myself included, speak with their friends and such to practice but the system could be better.

Thanks for the heads up

I've tried browsing 2chan but it's really difficult with all the slang and such. Still, very fun.

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It is when you already speak English. Stop complaining about exceptions, it is literally easier than a language you already know. No excuse.

I'm making it an intensely shitty place just for you faggot. Just because you got into an argument with two other dudes who then stopped responding to you when you started shitposting in reply.
I'm not into that at all and I've got time to spare so now you'll be getting shit constantly every time you reply to me, in some lame attempt to save anonymous face, which was what triggered me in the first place.
Just shut the fuck up when you have nothing to say, really. It's simple.

>makes it sound like you think any single u verb can use ANY of the u sounds at the end. That isn't the case. Each verb ends in a single u sound.
You've somehow managed to draw a strange conclusion from what I said. If you could use any u-sound for a verb that'd be easy. The problem is that each verb has a set sound and you need to memorise that. Every ru-verb ends in ru (exceptions aside), that's easy. But u-verbs don't have a rule for them.
話す ends with す, 聞く ends with く, 泳ぐ ends with ぐ, 遊ぶ ends with ぶ, and so on. The problem is that you can't tell what the verb forms of any of those are intuitively like with ru-verbs. There's no reason for 話す to end with す instead of ぶ or む or ぬ, it just ends with す because that's what it ends with and you need to remember that. And so for every u-verb you need to remember on an individual basis what u-sound their verb form uses, which is fucking insane.

Thanks for understanding, Spic

Here you go user

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>daddy gives you $100 million
>turn it into several billion

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Stop assuming things.
I said that everyone experiences the fucktarded use of borrowed words that the Japanese use. You can get a full understanding of just how retarded loanwords are regardless of whether you live there or not.
Now calm down.

But I was never complaining. I just pointed out that there are plenty of exceptions.

No idea, I was using the hotel's provided smartphone instead of buying a SIM for myself, my friend was living there so I don't know who his provider was. As far as the routes go though Google would have the same problem even from wi-fi.

I'll give you points for capitalizing it

DUAL DESTINIES SUCK

>practice is done between students which just leads to goofing around
I see, that is similar to my university but we actually have to be able to answer teacher's question in Jap, since the second year all the grammar lessons were taught in Japanese only by a native. Also we get to meet Japanese people of the same age that are on the student exchange.

>You can get a full understanding of just how retarded loanwords are regardless of whether you live there or not.
Except you can't because you're not getting the full gamut that's used in day to day life in Japan. You're getting a tiny taste of it. Again, you're a fucking retard with no point.

>Stop assuming things
Sorry, who's the retard who assumed I'm here wasting money?

learn Chinese first

Bruh what are you smoking.
>There's no reason for 話す to end with す instead of ぶ or む or ぬ, it just ends with す because that's what it ends with and you need to remember that.
That's like complaining about needing to remember that the word speak ends with k. No, you just remember the word speak.

Filthy acts made at a reasonable price

True, seriously what the fuck is wrong with /djt/? Everyone there acts like manchildren. You would think something that requires effort like learning Japanese would repel manchildren. Going to DJT is like stepping in a time machine and going back to middle school.

Damn I must have really hurt your feelings, huh?

What a retarded comparison. In this case the word is 話, You already remember the kanji for it and the reading of that kanji. "Speak" isn't the verb form of the word, "speaking" is. And in English every verb that comes to mind is made by taking the base word and appending "-ing" to it. In Japanese every verb is made by taking the base word and appending an u-sound to it, except the specific u-sound is a complete mystery, which is where the problem is. It's adding yet another layer of memorisation onto a system that already requires one additional layer of memorisation over English, since English doesn't have kanji to separate the meaning from the reading.
>B-But you need kanji because of homonyms
Completely beside the point.

What you need to realize is that learning Japanese is not that hard. I feel sorry for people who make a career out of the language thinking that they're doing something which requires effort equal to real artists, scholars, etc. I guess DJT is full of people who simply regret ever starting learning.

>Oh shit, he's right, I am pulling assumptions out of my ass
You tried.

does nobody know japanese, are you kidding me

>he fell for the isolated kanji study meme
It sounds to me you don't understand the language enough. The choice of sounds is not arbitrary, language is about using sound to convey a message. "It ends with that sound because it ends with that sound" Is a completely valid reason, as if it were to end with another sound it would have a different meaning. That is how language works.

not all the puns are going to be winners

Are there any other games similar to Ace Attorney? Jake Hunter was alright, but only one game was localized.

Sure, you can have the honor of knowing you won an internet argument, I don't really care.
I just hope you eventually realize that having access to the internet is more than enough to immerse yourself in a language, bear the full brunt of it, and get the full gamut. The year I spent living there was great and all, but hardly necessary.

>Wanted to learn Japanese so I can watch Japanese videos and play games in the raw language proficiency
>Ended up wanting to become a translator since I'm not good at anything else and can possibly make extra money off of it
>Slowly regretting it since I started to understand everything and see people act retarded saying why x is changed and other translation options while trashing translators because they're on the outside looking in

I wanna go back.

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I couldn't become a translator even if I tried. Keep doing what you do.

Danganronpa.

>The year I spent living
And I'm sure you were actually fluent, working in an all Japanese environment and truly believe that one year gave you a good grasp of life there. I can tell you're bitter about wasting money on your little trip.

only an anglo problem

Yup.

>In this case the word is 話
No it isn't. Kanjis are not words. When you speak Japanese you don't draw kanji in the air to convey your meaning.

Yeah, I'm sure creating an media and real estate empire that carried him to the presidency of the strongest country on the planet was just dumb luck.

Like he just tripped and poof, he was in the oval office. Cope harder. Imagine being so insecure that you can't admit that the president of the united states has accomplished more than you.

Danganronpa failed itself, that was abundently clear when the anime that wasnt adapted from anything and written by Kodaka himself was one of the most abhorrent piles of shit. The DR1 adaptation was god awful, but lets not pretend DR3 wasnt even fucking worse.

Here I will list some words I will NEVER understand.
一応
大概
微妙
アピール
More to come when I can remember them.

This is the ultimate irony.
Some butthurt "translator" using her job to bitch about fans criticising her for ignoring the source material and injecting her own shit.... BY ignoring the source material and injecting her own shit

My Japanese teacher actually told students it's IMPOSSIBLE to speak like an actual Japanese because pronunciation is too difficult.

Japan sucks at adapting games into anime in general, name 5 6/10 or higher video game to anime adaptations.

I thought Kodaka was just supervising DR3 because he was working on V3 at the time

The Etrian Odyssey and Dark Souls animes are good.

So he speaks with a lot of katakana as his thing but when he gets in a pinch, his "speaking" goes back to a regular mix of kanji and hiragana?
Is that his deal?
If correct, it reminds me of some brainwashed enemies in a mario rpg. To show that they're not themselves, they only spoke in katakana.

watch more anime

you have brain damage.

Yeah, pretty sure most of it was Lerche's fault.

If that's what it takes.

Probably.

Even if he did with how absolutely abhorrent it turned out on basically every level he did a shit job at that.

I've been putting together a list of Japanese games and their difficulty.
For those that have played Ace Attorney about how difficult would you say it is to understand compared to some of the other games in the pic?
Harder than Fatal Fram? Or in between Yakuza and Fatal Frame?

Attached: japanese games.png (1736x3920, 1017K)

Which one is Etrian Odyssey?

Made in Abyss.

>burgers are still in
every time

>be spic
>it took me like 5 years to be able to watch a burger movie without subtitles
>i still have trouble understanding music lyrics
I'm not even going to bother with japanese.

Final Fantasy kind of depends on which entry you're talking about. FF1-3 are probably just as hard as dragon quest, it's the later ones that are harder.

Would the note read better as something like (V-IX) instead of just (Pre Voice Acting)?

Yeah, though I haven't played 4 specifically. 1, 2, and 3 at least have very little story to them.

Where would you put Rance?

Ah thanks, I never really thought about it that way

Ok. I'll leave Final Fantasy at the same level as Persona and change the note to specify 5-9 instead of any of the pre voice acting games.
Not sure. Would be happy to put it on there if someone that played it in Japanese has some input about how it compares to the current games on their.

E.E. was the name of the ps2 CPU retard

>try learning moonspeak
>get stuck on some arbitrary kanji for no reason
>too stubborn to skip over them
>too lazy to learn other kanji alongside them

>how's the anime

S2 last couple of cases are 10/10.

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Nier Automata is a 6 if you actually read through all the text of the reports and stuff. Kingdom Hearts is a 3. You should specify LoZ doesn't include the first few since they have extremely little text. Sekiro is a 5 or 6 depending on how hard old Japanese vocab is for you and if you're more concerned with word useage versus grammar.

You seem like a bitch, user. You're taking mistakes other people make and making them your own problem just so you can act superior and bitchy to everyone else. Just because you know Japanese. Translators deserve to be shit on half the time because even in a professional respect they're shit half the time and a lot of the time the changes don't make any fucking sense.

I can't tell if you're being fictitious but if you aren't you're proving my point

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Thanks. Been wanting to fill in the level 6 area.
Will people around Level 3 be ok with the Kingdom Hearts cutscenes not letting them read at their own pace? Doesn't seem like the language is that hard with the main difficulty being keeping up with a native speaking pace.
Have you played Ace Attorney or Rance in Japanese too? I am thinking of putting Ace Attorney at level 6 or 7 because of the wordplay but still letting you read at your own pace.

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>lets not pretend DR3 wasnt even fucking worse.
It wasn't. DR3 was so bad, it was good. DR1 was just bad.

The language in KH is piss easy, and voiced cutscenes are super easy to follow unless you're an idiot who's only practice comes from reading VNs.

>Have you played Ace Attorney or Rance in Japanese too?
Nope.

>voiced cutscenes are super easy to follow unless you're an idiot
Or Donald Duck is talking. That fucker makes no sense in every language.

Thanks for the input.

Oh I was 100% just reading subs. His voice in moon is fucking stupid.

What incredible pedantics that continue to completely avoid addressing the point.

At first I thought that was Nick Rekieta.

Those we have lost...

They the same cases as the games or new?

WHATCHA NAAAAAAME

uhhh herro i am nipponese man rooking to rearn enrish does anyron have guide to engrish prease yes frank you

Traitor Trump*

I'm surprised treason hasn't come up in a Wright case yet.

>shows up
>instantly becomes a meme from the first line

How can one man be so based?

The anime covers all the cases from the original trilogy (which means no 1-5) and has one original case, I think.

Do you know what japanese people call a stroller? They call it a ベビーカー . A baby car. Take a look: jisho.org/search/stroller

If you were translating something from japanese to english, and you came across someone saying "Baby car", would you leave it as "Baby car", or translate it to "stroller"?

It's the same thing. "Doll" sounds cool to them, it sounds fucking stupid to us, so they localized it to something that sounds to us the way "Doll" sounds to them.

WTF Phoenix

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Obligatory.

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There's 1 anime original in S1 and 3* anime originals in S2. 2 of those S2 originals are just 1 episode originals that expands on the backstory. I think Shu worked on the originals as well.

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16 is legal

He's basically a bigshot business man who speaks in English to sound fancy.

The English translation shows this off by making him speak Spanish and a ton of made-up words that sound grand (since that's basically what he's doing).

I don’t know if he worked on all of them, but I know he wrote the train case

OP here, really tough to gauge where Ace Attorney falls on the difficulty scale as the grammar and whatnot isn't particularly difficult (at this level, you should be able to take pretty solid stabs at anything you don't know anyway) but the main difficulty just comes from unknown vocabulary, which will sort itself out fairly fast as it's usually repetitive OR some other character doesn't know the word and has someone explain it to you (with readings).

I haven't played Yakuza or Fatal Frame, but I want to say it's probably lower than both based on what I know. I want to rank it on the same level as the text-based Final Fantasy games, but at the same time the game really does ask for a little more in terms of reading comprehension. Probably then, higher than final fantasy, but lower than Yakuza/Fatal Frame.

Again, it's really just the vocabulary, which, if you're actually able to tackle a game like this in the first place, is something that you'll figure out and within a few hours have most of the game-specific shit down.

Just stick it in Level 4 and I think that's OK, if you're gonna say Persona is equal to Final Fantasy, then this belongs alongside them.

i only want to learn japanese so i can understand the dialogue in JAV pornos.

Same.

Truly /ourguy/

a noble act really

That surprisingly sounds like it is a lot easier than I expected. Ace Attorney kind of has a reputation of being very pun and wordplay heavy and being very ingrained into the language requiring the heavy localization we get.

Difficult to translate and difficult to understand are two completely different things.

Try Finn Wolfhard

Would you say it is also more difficult than Persona?

私の日本語が悪いです
助けてください

Right, but being pun and wordplay heavy doesn't always mean it'll be difficult. Just means you may miss jokes here and there, which is OK, because normal people do that even if they're fluent in a language.

The real question is, can you understand enough stuff to pick out inconsistencies and produce the correct evidence/provide right reasons for why? The attention to detail necessary ramps up and probably isn't always obvious even if it was in your native language.

Persona has a LOT of weird vocab that you probably won't see very often ANYWHERE unless you read quite a bit of stuff. But, it's just vocab, and you get used to it just by seeing it. Phoenix wright has the advantage of most the genre-specific vocab being stuff you may have seen before in the news, like 逮捕、殺人、弁護士、法廷、被害者、容疑者、and the like.

Persona is probably harder in terms of vocab, but again, Phoenix wright typically demands more of you in terms of applying your understanding of the language. It's hard to say. I want to say that Persona is still tougher though due to words.

>Phoenix wright has the advantage of most the genre-specific vocab being stuff you may have seen before in the news, like 逮捕、殺人、弁護士、法廷、被害者、容疑者、and the like.
P5 has all of those as well.

>Google Maps is fucked in Japan
It's all that Christopher Poole fella's fault.

>Persona is probably harder in terms of vocab, but again, Phoenix wright typically demands more of you in terms of applying your understanding of the language
Thanks for the input. That's an interesting way to compare difficulty. From your words I am kind of leaning toward Phoenix Wright being a higher level, since Persona lets you read at your own pace and looking up any vocab you need versus applying understanding and needing to use your knowledge of the language.
What do you think about putting Phoenix Wright just above FF and Persona around the same range as Yakuza? Kind of showing that just grinding vocabulary and looking up words might not be enough but now you have to start applying your knowledge of Japanese?

Well shit. Now I am going do think moooooooooooooooot everytime google maps fucks up for me.

Pepuchido? Sounds like Pepchid.
Why not ペプタイド?

it got even more fucked up recently
toyokeizai.net/articles/-/283815

I feel like AA would only be a 3 because of vocab.

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>utterly obsessed with shallow glamour and glitz
>bizarre manner of speaking
>president of a large corporation
>corrupt to the bone

bros...

Nice Muteking reference.

youtube.com/watch?v=JjfvDRa8Dg8

To clarify, Kodaka only wrote the ending(final episode). Lerche had to make a plot that lead up to that ending, so the blame falls on both.

He also turned down an OVA for the DR1 kids just to make sure DR2 fans didn't feel cheated out of their anime.

Source: kamase-megane.tumblr.com/post/153504419222/dr3-spoiler-warning-heres-a-post-kibou-hen

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>Kodaka only wrote the ending(final episode)
Is that supposed to be a defence when the final episode was the worst part of the entire thing? Naegi is built up the entire time as the Hope who will save everyone and he does literally nothing.

>Why not ペプタイド?
Because Japanese and the people who made it are fucking stupid.

No, I'm saying Kodaka and Lerche are both shit writers.

>I have done shit like told Japs itadakemasu means rubba dubdub thanks for the grub
Bless you.

It works exactly the same. Muffler means マフラー (mafuraa) in Japanese.

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>You guys ever see the movie "The Lovely Bones"?

I had the misfortune of watching it when I was bored one day.

It remains as the most unsatisfying movie I've ever seen.