I feel strangely excited for Kakarot, after all these games with different stories a return to Z sounds alright

The action in Dragon Ball is unironically better than Super at the very least and those "slice of life" elements are actually forced into Super even more than they were in the filler addled DBZ

i liked Yamcha's base ball episode

DB Superduper was worth it just for that vindication of my homeboy

I am not against Super per se even if I don't like it much and Yamcha probably deserved more than that but at least they remembered he exists.

Dragon Ball is way too simple of a series for it to still be getting the same fucking games over and over again. When ArcSys made a fighting game, it was really exciting, but it got boring incredibly fast because 99% of Dragon Ball characters do the exact same fucking things. Dragon Ball's already been surpassed by other battle shounen, yet it's still fucking here, like some retard spouting off about how Bruce Lee would be a UFC champ if he were alive today, when he wouldn't.

Only One Punch Man has come close to being better than DB, other than that... what?

Naruto? Bleach? Ranma?

lmao

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You saying Bruce Lee couldn't be a MMA champ is just as valid as the spergs saying he could, just letting you know,.

Just play Budokai 1.

DB will keep getting games whether you like it or not, kek.

Naruto and BnHA are as good as Dragon Ball. One Piece and Hunter x Hunter are a million times better. I feel bad for anyone that watches Dragon Ball after One Piece.

>Retelling of Z
How many times has this happened? At least Xenoverse had some changes to the main story, as tame as they were.

naruto and bleach were way more interesting than dbz even if they went full retard. Ironically they both sort of went the dbz powerlevels route which is what fucked up everything

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It could've been a return to DB. I wanna fight Roshi. I wanna fight Tao. I wanna fight Tenshinhan. I wanna fight Piccolo and Piccolo 2.

Could have easily made a definitive 3D dragon ball game but nope another rehash

>People are disappointing with how retarded they made Goku in Super
Oh boy, Z fags are going to drop the fuck out of this game.

it’s clear they should have made a mass effect but prequel Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz if they wanted an actual rpg without having to worry about story canon that much. could be fun to play the villain

There are hundreds of anime’s better than Dragon Ball

They are cuteeee

>the complete story of Goku
>it's the same exact retelling of Z that we've had for the billionth time in a row
>doesn't even start at the beginning of DB
why

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I unironically think dragon ball is probably the most influential manga that actually has it's own identity. People having problems with the pacing should honestly stick to the manga.

I was hearing on another thread it's going to start in the 21st world tournament but it's a quick tutorial all the way to the 22nd world tournament but you don't get any XP. I think he said 2-4 hours.

Cuz modern anime is shit.

>10 years from now we will still have remakes of DBZ

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I feel like no fan would complain if Yamcha came back strong as fuck and contributed to a major battle in some way. There's no reason to do this to the characters

i hope it ends at cell

Because then Toriyama would have to create a major asspull to give humans some new power boost only just now unlocked when literally everything says that Humans are really weak as fuck.

Naruto is unironically good. It only falls flat towards the middle/end of shippuden.

its funny how Toriyama stopped giving a shit about Dragon Ball, once Cell died.

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>There's no reason to do this to the characters
Toryiama basically made the power scaling incredibly stupid in DB to the point where it's absurd that anyone not named Goku or Vegeta could keep up. Although Toriyama is also a hack so he could come up with whatever reason he wanted

I mean hell the ToP was a great chance for lots of minor characters to shine, since the conceit is that they're fighting LOTS and LOTS of people. Meaning there's a chance there's weaker fighters in all the universes that can match them, without having to worry about the powerscaling. Just have yamcha fight one of Universe 2's mooks on equal footing.

Nope, it looks boring and thoroughly uninteresting. Enjoy your rehash garbage.

WORLD TOURBAMENT saga was going to be fun. But no SHIT-KAI HAD TO FUCK EVERYTHING UP

Toriyama said he enjoyed writing the highschool arc more than the Buu arc itself, kek. Looks like he just wanted an SoL.

I don't think that's true. I think he was just getting back to his weird and wacky roots with Buu saga. It was sort of his swan song. Honestly it looks to me that he had more fun making that arc than making Cell with all of its mid-arc course corrections. Not that the Buu saga is devoid of that, but it feels more like Classic Toriyama.

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I actually wouldn't mind that compared to the actually Buu saga. The school portion was pretty comfy for being like 2-3 chapters.

buu arc just feels like hes doing whatever the fuck he feels like, since hes pretty much bored of the series/has made a fuck ton of money, to me.

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Would have been great if it started from Dragon Ball and the combat started off more martial artists based with no teleporting, flying, or ki blast then slowly adding them in as it progressed through the series and making it the usual Xenoverse combat.

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>another game that ends after the frieza saga

>once Cell died.
Before that user

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It's the fate of all shonen to be destroyed by their own premise.
Except One Piece, somehow.

Bulma used to be such a semen demon. What happened to Dragon Ball women? Now they are scrawny bobble heads.

too much work, heres your shitty z goku wanking even though he was barely on screen during z

he still put in a lot of effort, imagine drawing this fucking thing for so many damn chapters. jesus christ.

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I used to have that impression, but when I reread it in the manga, I dunno. It's got this charm to it. I honestly like DB taking itself less seriously. Sure once Buu hits the scene it's just one non-stop escelation of an indestructible enemy, but I feel like a lot of the characterization in that arc is really good. Mr. Satan is written really well, Goku's written pretty well and so is Vegeta. It honestly does feel like the peak for a lot of these characters, both in terms of interactions, story and humor. I never would've thought that Vegeta would be a perfect straight man to Goku's nimrod, but seeing it in action in the Buu Saga just felt right. (Though I will say Super's kinda made it overstay its welcome)

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Yeah, I can't blame him for getting tired of the series when he put out insanely great art and really well composed panels week after week after week.

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This is also the man who made SSJ just so he wouldn't have to Ink Goku's hair.

honestly im surprised he didn't get rid of cell's spots in his final form

And also the man who stopped making Sand Land because he didn't want to draw a tank anymore

>Dragon Ball mainly appeals to die hard fans and anime fans who like slice of life elements over action
how can a person be so wrong? besides the eternally memed driving episode nobody gives a shit about the slice of life.

That's the worst part of all of this. If it's indeed a "goku" game. You're gonna want some pre-Z stuff cuz Goku's kind of never around. And even when he does show up he tends to job and need backup after a while.
>Dead for most of saiyan saga. Does good for a while and then gets aped and is out of the rest of the fight
>Gone for most of the freeza saga. Does good for a while then gets Body snatched and needs to be put in a healing chamber.
>Gone for most, if not all of the android arc. Has a heart attack fighting 19 and the next person he fights is, I shit you not, perfect Cell. And then he decides "nope don't want to fight him" and then he dies later.
>Is dead for most of the buu saga. Has a midlife crisis fight with Vegeta and then shows Buu the super duper cool Super Saiyan 3. Then he goes back to heaven for most of the arc, shows up at the end to finish it off.
I mean it works OK for a manga. But if I'm playing a game I want to actually play a character who's...part of the story. I'd rather be KRILLIN in a dragon ball game. At least that guy's always around in some capacity. If you want a "Goku" story, He's ALWAYS around in Dragonball.

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Nah, the pre-Cell games filler and Gohan at high school are great

also z goku is a horrible character for the most part. least kid goku is endearing.

>since hes pretty much bored of the series/has made a fuck ton of money
If anything that describes the cell saga more given how little resistance he put up against the editors.

Granted it's not a confirmation but there's this

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don't worry. One Piece will follow.
compare pre timeskip to New World.
the redflags are basically smashed on your face.

is it so hard just to make a game in the db multiverse where you start on a different planet? Xenoverse had the right idea

>Frieza was the main villain during his own saga
>Came back during the Cell Saga
>Came back in a couple of movies
>Came back in GT
>Came back in Super in a fucking movie and the final arc
>Now we have a game where we get to see the story of the saiyans and Frieza again

You know I used to like Frieza quite a lot but after all of this it's just getting fucking tiresome. Why the fuck can't they give a game to the original Dragonball, you know the fucking manga where adventure is the main focus, and stop sucking on Friezas dick.

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fuck DBZ Kakarot, give me DBZ The Great Saiyaman instead

Attached: saiyaman.gif (280x285, 893K)

It’s literally just due to good character design. Toriyama has a great unique style. Same with Sonic. All his games are shit but he looks cool

i wonder if they're gonna do other episodes or not, maybe a broly movie or cooler episode

>it's just going to be xenoverse without a character creator
sasuga Bamco

blame Japan and NuDB being soulless

I love that fans like myself are getting a game dedicated to the original run of the anime. Its a love letter to the og fans. The gameplay and title are amazing.
I've been sophisticated with super and fanfic level content for years.

I still remember when Xenoverse was being hyped with all-new possibilities and scenarios but it ended up with you just appearing at the last second to fight the bad man right away and set things back to normal.

I thought that it would be cool if you had to pick up the pieces and continue instead. Like, what if in a timeline Goku never made it back in time to fight Nappa and Vegeta so you have to train with Tien, Krillin and Yamcha to fight the Saiyans. Then you could learn some of their signature moves like Spirit Ball, Tri-Beam or Destructo Disc. Fuck, what if Yajirobe trained and kept up with the others, that could have been cool.

At the very least Gohan and Vegeta should be playable to cover for when Goku is not present.

Masako already beat ya to it kid.youtube.com/watch?v=bmr4J92f5q0

Also why THE FUCK is Raditz not in Fighterz?!

reminder, that this game has orchestrated Kikuchi tracks

Suffocated**

because the first like 2/3 of the manga is comedic hijinks that don't translate well to a video game and the rest of it is tenkaichi budokai which we already have games out of or goku fighting king piccolo's minions and then king piccolo and then regular piccolo

Hopefully it'll at least have a better framerate than FighterZ.

one piece is the same shit it always was. Only difference is there's more characters and haki got rid of the cheap invulnerable bullshit some fruit users had

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They skipped over my part again didn't they...

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Have no fears. We'll have the same story for years.

good, it was the worst part of dragonball

>Goku trained his tail when he was 14 yo
>Raditz didn't train his way into his mid 20's

Is Raditz worst Saiyan?

fpbp

>inb4 she is one of the secret post game bosses.

That was because of his editor, desu.

I wonder what that arc would've been like if 19 and 20 had been the main antagonists, though.

>even more rehashed dragonball shit
>no mainstream bleach game since 2003

A Choose your own adventure dragonball story would've been amazing. But unfortunately that's not what bamco was peddling. Just balls to the walls weird shit. But instead it's "oh you have to fight Freeza except he's now just a little bit stronger than he was in the correct timeline...I guess. And we just didn't see the Time Patroller flying around in the background when watching the anime.

Super, Xeno, whatever else is fanfic level garbage.
Very glad to see a swan song to the classic Z saga.

goku and raditz both came from the same low class family of saiyans and while goku essentially became greater than just his lineage in large part because of his training and adventures, raditz didn't have that kind of upbringing and was limited by the saiyan culture
the implication is that saiyan culture was hampering the saiyan's true potential, this is also evidenced by just how much stronger vegeta becomes over the course of the series

He's talking about dragonball, not Z

Because Raditz is not interesting. He simply doesn't stick around long enough to have any long lasting impression outside of just being the harbinger of more to come. It's like complaining that you can't play as Tambourine. Or Android 19.

Hmm, Goku, Gohan and Vegeta playable with other party members would actually be pretty alright

if it goes to cell, the piccolo vs 17 fight will be fucking based

Raditz was actually a shitter by saiyan standards.Vegeta and Nappa didn't even want to bring him back.

Gundam is influential on a level dragonball can't even dream of.

>no new Hironobu song ever
fuck

they made a dragonball game for wii and nobody bought it. nobody cares about dragon ball, only DBS fans are buying DB games these days

No, Tarble (Terrible) is worst Saiyan. Vegeta's mega manlet little brother that is only ever brought up in a movie and DBS.

Raditz probably never even knew about the tail being a weakness since he probably fought weak trash aliens and no one near his level that could threaten him or even catch up to him and strike his tail.

>Raditz is not interesting
sounds like some stupid underage nigger didn't watch dragon ball growing up

I actually bought that game as a kid BECAUSE I was a DBfag. It sucked. I haven't touched it in a decade.

toriyama forgot about him, then made a copy of him in another universe, kek.

One piece unironically

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>shittier art
>"huhu WACKY" and kinda wholesome instead of funny and wholesome
>terrible pacing
Haki gives Oda time to breathe and that way he avoids writing himself into the corner. I accept this.
doesn't mean that Oda hasn't begun to lose his knack around the time-skip.

I HOPE WE DO FROM DRAGON BALL TO SUPER

how old is he anyway? I think his latest song is the new OPM opening with JAM Project?

According to the Xenoverse devs, sometimes you're just straight up not allowed to use the DB content when your focus is Z. I don't get it either.

which one? i didn't even know the wii got a DB game besides the BT3 port.

It wasn't even his editor, but his former editor Torishima Kazuhiko, his editor at the time was Kondo Yu. So in theory he didn't had the authority to force Toriyama to make any changes, but in traditional japanese politeness fashion, toriyama hasn't never said clearly what really happen.

haha you a funny guy user
you get Z

There's all the stuff Goku does while dead.

>Ranma
Better than all of them

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Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot
(Raditz - Frieza)
Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot II
(Mecha Frieza - Perfect Cell)
Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot III
(Saiyaman - Kid Buu)
Each game has movie DLC based around the time periods.

>3 tournament-focused seasons in DB
Those barely take up part in the story compared to all the traveling. Advance Adventure even had the right in that regard.
The other user is stupid to consider early Dragon Ball as slice of life though, as if everything involving Red Ribbon and Piccolo is only comedy.

i wonder if that guy could've saved the buu arc

How long can a game about the Raditz to Frieza storyline be? It's about Goku, who beat the shit out of Nappa, Recoome, Jeice and Burter like they were made of paper. Plus he shows up after Dodoria and Zarbon, so that's what, like 3 actual threats and Ginyu? What the fuck is the point?

Power creep has basically led to most of the Strawhats being utterly useless. Like, why the fuck don't Robin and Brook not have fucking haki? Meanwhile, Luffy's going through power up after power up.

He's not. He's Goku's brother which is interesting but they don't do anything with that. His fight with Goku and Piccolo is good but honestly not as memorable as all the other fights in that arc. Honestly I can't think of anything in particular that he did that warrants making an entire character out of him for a fighting game. Nappa at least ran a train on 5 people for half the arc, resulting in 3 of them dying, two by suicide and one by his hand. Raditz's fight is just not nearly as memorable as things that come later and since he's in such a small part of the story it doesn't feel like there's any point to making him a whole character in fighterz. It's one thing in something in Xenoverse or Tenchaichi which is just over simplified button mashing but all the references and fighting system arcsys uses for Fighterz seems too in depth for such a minor character.

I hope this game will have this track
youtu.be/7c15m_h6DGg?t=201

I’m not an incel faggot who plays every cash-in, so getting the definitive vidya take on a classic story is alright by me

>after all these games with different stories a return to Z sounds alright.

do you know how many Z games there are motherFUCKER

>naruto
>bleach
Hahahahaha you have the same taste as a 2008 scene kid

The funny part is, as a series it was just dragon ball from beginning to end in japan. The only one who separated them into 2 parts was Toei. And even then it's not like they changed studios so I have no idea why it'd be legal issue.

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I wasn't sure how to feel until I found out Launch is in it

By the time of the Buu Saga Toriyama had a third editor that didn't give a fuck about bossing him around, and that is why the buu saga is a lot less "serious" than previous DBZ arcs.

>Raditz's fight is just not nearly as memorable
You know it took the two strongest people on the planet, who were moments ago mortal enemies, and one had to sacrifice himself to kill his own brother and entrust his rival with his son? It's literally the first time Goku dies, nigger.

Maybe it has something to do with Kid Goku specifically, because the reason they brought it up was in regards to why he wasn't in the game. It's why they gave GT Goku a lot of Kid Goku's moves.

Don't buy that at all. They don't use Dragon Ball because it's not as globally lucrative as Z shit.

I feel like at this day and age more people know what the plot of DBZ is from playing the games than they do from watching the fucking show.

>I feel bad for anyone that watches Dragon Ball after One Piece.
I did that and i honestly don't see the problem at all.
In fact, Dragon ball simplicity allows it to be way more accecible to the casual audience, while One Piece and it's 80 volumes and overarching stories is a nightmare if you didn't start reading it early.

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They should get whoever did the gacha game to do the music, this is some Budokai shit

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Then again, why did they give Kid Goku's moves to GT Goku instead of just giving us Kid Goku? It's a story about time travel, it's not like they can't just shove him in.

from what i've been seeing, Superkiddies have been shitting on OG DB/Z a lot.

>Breath of the Wild but instead of shrines you stop to watch an epsiode of Dragon Ball Z

Yes. And literally everything you said was about Goku and Piccolo. It's a great Goku/Piccolo fight. But that doesn't really have anything to do with Raditz, other than him being an obstacle. He could've been Broly or Jiren for all the difference it makes on THAT front.

Revenge of King Piccolo
youtube.com/watch?v=__PnQuuV0X8

opening song by Hiroki Takahashi, who also performed Makafushigi Adventure, the OG DragonBall opening
youtube.com/watch?v=sDGUJgk9pTE

the fuck, i have never heard of this game. guess they didn't advertise it?

Raditz was the antagonist that forced Goku's death. Are you brain dead?

I never really watched DBZ outside of a few episodes when I was a kid, but I got the plot from playing Budokai 1.
Didn't get around to actually reading Dragon Ball until a few years ago

it looks like ass

it's a mix of no advertisemend and not being DragonBall Z
there is another DragonBall game, which is on GBA, it's a really fun sidescroller
youtube.com/watch?v=FRmZQeyCQV0

I know people who like Z but like to shit on DB, but no one who likes Super and doesn't like the original(s), sounds like shitposters.

My problem with Revenge of King Piccolo is that Advanced Adventure exists, and is basically the same game but with a lot more of content.

On a related note I picked up Figherz and I'm kind of amazed at how accurate and fun the dialogues are in the story mode, who wrote them?

Yu Yu Hakusho
Hunter X Hunter
Gash Bell
One Piece
Kinnikuman
Shaman King
Hokuto No Ken
Sakigake Otokojuku

Forgot the link youtube.com/watch?v=ipMLv2mR2Us

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>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot
(Raditz - Frieza)
DLC: Bardock The Father of Goku, Movies 1-4
>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot II
(Garlic Jr. - Perfect Cell)
DLC: Movies 5-9, Plan to eradicate the saiyans (original ova, not the remake), The History of Trunks
>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot III
(Saiyaman - Kid Buu/ Uub)
DLC: Movies 10-13
>This would be the ultimate love poem to the classic animated Z era.

>Japanese Advanced Adventure has Makafushigi Adventure as title screen
I wish music licenses weren't a bitch back then
youtube.com/watch?v=uTJyKHdxx0E

Goku dies every season, nothing special about that

Also an important thing to note: Japan fucking HATED GT. You think it gets a bad rap here in the west? Over there it basically killed the franchise outside of videogames. To this day it's considered by Japan in the top 10 biggest mistakes the anime industry made, up there with the Shuffle! anime in creating otaku rage. So why would you use the GT version of Goku in your games instead of Kid Goku unless for some reason you couldn't use Kid Goku?

The west unironically saved DB because its insane popularity over here convinced Japan to bring it back from the grave until Movie 14 happened which was Toei officially saying they're going back full time.

It was his first death.

>tfw you will never play an action rpg centering around a balance of deep melee mechanics and classic fast paced dbz bullshit with a character customized oc and their story leading up to the destruction of planet vegeta

why live. i just want to feel like a dirty monkey man on a trail of constant destruction and conquest across an array of alien planets with my saiyan bros

youtube.com/watch?v=tlfZX612yts
literally better than the shitty DBS ost composer, and he just makes music for a phone game.

>not Dragon Ball Z: Trunks
>not Dragon Ball Z: The Great Saiyaman
>not Dragon Ball Z: Mr. Satan

For a game like this it literally can't get any better than Dragon Ball. Goku is most of the time on an adventure encountering new towns, people, and situations or breaking into a Red Ribbon facility. There are also those blank spots where Goku goes off adventuring alone and a timeskip happens. Literally perfect for coming up with new adventure and quest.

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Is this a porn game

Did they censor the special beam canon again?

it should be DBZ: Future, for Future Gohan/Trunks' stuff.

I don't play mobile games, but I really appreciate the BGM in Dokkan
youtube.com/watch?v=UnInU0y37Hc

>up there with the Shuffle! anime in creating otaku rage.
Wait what was wrong with it? Granted it's been like over a decade since I've seen it but it seemed like just a normal harem show.

>no proper Seven Deadly Sins game

>what is Advanced Adventure?

cannon

That had absolutely no consquences and gave him an excuse to train

Nappa did want to bring him back, and his proposal for Earth was to bang all the human women to create half-saiyans while he and Vegeta ruled as kings because he was impressed by baby Gohan. It's just that Vegeta talked him out of it, and said they should use the Dragonballs to become immortal instead.

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This is how I know you're underage

>because the first like 2/3 of the manga is comedic hijinks
Why do people keep saying this? Yes, Dragon Ball was more comedic back then, but there was a ton of action too, the combination of both is what people liked in the first place, comments like this only targets you as someone who never actually watched/read Dragon Ball other than Z and beyond.

Alternate histories and what-ifs would be so cool if they could actually fully commit to it. But they never fucking do.

This, I hoped it was an action RPG like they said it was, it's actually just a fighting game again with shitty looking combat and tiny maps filled with nothing. Flying animations also looked extremely janky and it looks more like it's just going to be all story elements handled in cutscenes, really don't see why they're calling it an RPG

Yes, but that's not interesting on its own. Tambourine is the guy who killed Krillin, who is one of the main characters. I'm not demanding to see him in the game. I'm talking about raditz, purely as a fighter. Purely from a fight perspective, is not interesting enough. He has generic ki blasts, that one cool midair donkey kick he gave Piccolo and Goku, and maybe a few other thing, but off the top of my head I can't remember ANYTHING noteworthy he did other than get hit by gohan, get his tail grabbed and get caught in a full nelson and die violently.
Compare to Nappa who did that cool hand wave that left an exploding crater in the ground, or that upwards point thing he did before that explosion attack, Or even the mouth laser that killed Piccolo.And even HE had to have Saibamen added to his moveset to keep him interesting. And I'm pretty sure he was around for 3-4x as long as Raditz and 3x the body count as well. (Not counting Yamcha since he got saibamanned (Granted Chiaotzu and Tenshinhan killed themselves trying to kill him.) Raditz just doesn't have that same amount of content, and I'm honestly surprised even Nappa managed to make it in.

>Most people don't give a shit about the Buu Saga
Fusion was the hottest shit.

They took the sweet girl next door character and turned her into a yandere. And it wasn't even something hinted all show, they just did a massive swerve and introduced it around like episode 18 of 24. This was not the case in the original VN when every other character in the show was portrayed accurately.

You think those photos people post of them destroying their idol disk or something is out of anger? These motherfuckers in Japan could simply grab a ramen cup and cook it with their rage.

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You're right, anyone who cares this much about Dragonball Z is underage

there were no consequences. The literal first thing they suggested after he died was to bring him back with the dragonballs until he told them to wait a year. It didn't matter until the 2nd death and even that stopped mattering eventually

isn't this more of a beat'em'up game in that case?

Or Dragon Ball Z: Mira
(Japanese for future)

>being this retarded

>Bleach
Yes, outside of that fullbring shit.
>Naruto
Just about as dumb, but Shippuden started out good.

Nah bro I wanna go fishing and do all these quest while my son is being held hostage or my allies are being killed

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Will they let us diverge and fuck up the storyline like that one SNES RPG?

>bring everyone to Namek, nobody dies
>keep Vegeta alive on Namek and kill Frieza, he turns SSJ and becomes the hidden final boss

Seriously, the second arc is the 21st budokai which is just nothing but fighting. Then is the red ribbon army which is basically goku going on a gauntlet through different locations, then the 22nd world tournament which is another nothing but fighting arc, then King Piccolo which is also just lots of fighting and then Piccolo jr. another tournament and y'know what that means (lots of fighting).
Sure the first 2 arcs have plenty of comedy but it's not impossible to write gameplay around them, especially if you're making an RPG. Have a level where you just take down red ribbon headquarters. That shit would be fun as hell.

it's Mirai

comfy

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>meets snake queen
>trains with King Kai
>Fights Pikkon
>???
What the hell else does he do?

>inb4 they add all kinds of ways to diverge and break off from the original story like posted, adding new scenarios and completely blowing all the complainers out of the water

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King Piccolo Arc is pretty dark all things considered. I mean it starts with Krillin, a well established character dying, then Kame sennin dies as well then Piccolo fucking kills the dragon, there is no turning back, those guys are dead for good. Piccolo gets shit done and doesn't fuck around.

>but it's not impossible to write gameplay around them
In Dragon Ball they go around meeting a lot of people and doing favors for them which easily adds to the rpg flavor, if someone could make a workaroud like that with Z in the Legacy of Goku games, the original should be even more easy.
By the way, does anyone have an opinion on the DS Origins games?

Funny how 2 of those are anime filler.

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meant to reply to

>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot
Main story: Raditz - Frieza
Bonus story: Bardock the father of Goku
DLC: Movies 1-4
>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot II
Main story: Garlic Jr. - Super Perfect Cell/ Trunks frees the future.
Bonus story: The History of Trunks
DLC: Movies 5-9, Plan to eradicate the Saiyans
>Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot III
Main story: The Great Saiyaman - Kid Buu/ Uub
DLC: Movies 10-13
>Fixed

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Looks like shit from the gameplay

>There's an Origins 2
Oh shit, I had no idea. I just tried out the first game not too long ago.

BGM: Disturbed - The Game

I don't care what anyone says, Dragon Ball is a product of its time. It'll never be as good as it was during the 80s and 90s.

Because Dragonball stories from the 90's to today are all fucking garbage

>DOUBLE SUNDAY

Why not the Cell Saga? It actually has characters other than Goku doing cool shit (Vegeta, Trunks, Androids 16/17/18, Tien, Gohan, Piccolo)

Wait for the next game. My question is: WHERE IS BURST LIMIT 2?

>forgetting hell and the ogres

I rather have a new original story. I am tired of the same starting arcs every time a new Dragon Ball game comes out.

fusion is such a shitty concept that the show constantly tries to contradict itself to keep characters from fusing or the fusion being indefinite or 30 mins.

Basically they could take care of most antagonist if they fused together. But the show writers know that it would be anti climatic for them to do that and take away from each character's individual struggle , personal strength and growth.

All the characters other than Piccolo are shit compared to Goku

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>omg same old freiza arc? so boring
>wtf is this deviant art original made up shit? Give us the old story
You guys are huge faggots.

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money

Radditz has a new attack
twitter.com/Lythero/status/1138897939085090817

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I liked it initially, but it got real boring within 8 hours. I don't like grinding that much. Why the fuck did I have to get 7 dragon balls for a fucking haircut?

>hottest shit
>Fusion always loses due to the fighter being retarded, aside from Gogeta in the Broly and Janemba movies

>Garlic Jr.

Non-canon and actively contradicts the Raditz portion of the story.

Gotenks is my favorite character in the series, so I'm a bit bias. Didn't Vegito lose on purpose, though?

What the hell do you even expect? A game centered around boring as fuck, deviantArt-inspired Super? I don't hate GT but there isn't much there and no one likes it. So all that's left is Dragon Ball which is less about action and fighting but would fit better as an adventure/platformer game.

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If they gave videl - A person with NO moves character slot , they can give raditz who's been a much more impactful character, a slot

Bend over and I'll show you a huger faggot.

>deviantArt-inspired
>I don't hate GT
Most plebian post in the thread

>Watch a gameplay demo
>Wonder why in the fuck they're starting with the Raditz saga with gameplay that looks like this

youtube.com/watch?v=bXRU9P6dhr0

I mean,the engine is clearly made for the titular Vegeta.Frieza,Cell and Buu battles. That grand big ass dwarfing beam shit is strange coming from Raditz.

Attached: くそ.png (1280x720, 744K)

>that music
kino

All officially released content is canon.
Continuity issues exist, its something fans need to accept. Filler is great, deal with it.
If you want 'true canon' read the original manga run.

twitter.com/Anamaze_/status/1139230799457390592

>Raditz fight
>Goku flying

wrong outfit too

It's unironically just 2 generic ki beams fired from the hands and given a name. At least Saturday Crush has a unique arm movement in firing it.

>Android 18
mhm?

I've grabbed Raditz' tail in like 10 different games now. Who really wants to play through the Z story AGAIN.

me, but i ain't paying for it this time

Bandai routinely try and gauge fan reception for these things. It's a miracle DBZF even happened desu, this looks like they're finally adapting the visuals of a "Raging Blast 3" like that French fan/community manager was drafting up years ago. They always pick a shitty dev or create a flawed fighting system with these battle-sims though.

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so is terrain damage finally persistent or not

>implying that pic related isn't actual deviantArt trash, moreso than Super Saiyan 4

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>Double Sunday
>Saturday Crush
>Saturday Crash
>Shining Friday
>Vacation Delete
>Weekend
>Exciting Year
>Weekly Special
>Day Crush
>Dynamite Monday
>Black Monday

>Now Cyclone Monday

Who gets to decide these names for these games?

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I would kill for a complete kid goku open world dragon ball game like this.

The world feels so much bigger and more alive in early Dragon Ball.

Wtf would be the point of making a game based on the anime and excluding all the filler because a handful of faggots have a hand picked head canon on the series. They may as well make a game based on the manga if that were the case.
Goku learning to drive is also "not canon" by your evaluation... But ill be damned if it isnt included.

someone actually made a pink goku before super ever did

>pink
>fag
Kys 40 yo boomer
Literally one of the best villains in the franchise

I bought xenovese blind thinking it was like every other 3D DBZ game I ever played and was actually fucking pissed it was some OC time travel patrol shit

>tfw you were expecting a sequel to buu's fury

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nope, doesn't look like sweeping beams do anything either

>Alien using earth days to name his attacks
Definitely strange.

goku flew in dragon ball

>If it's indeed a "goku" game
It's a "Kakarot" game, and Kakarot wasn't a thing before Raditz arrived, so sadly it technically is the starting point for his story based on just the name.

At least he had some boss as fuck attacks.

dont forget the combat being a downgrade of raging blast 1/2

On Nimbus. Otherwise he propelled himself with beams. He never learned Bukujutsu until he got to King Kai. That's why he runs down Snake Way the first time, but flies back to Earth.

it's a special move, faggot. deal with it

The last 3D DBZ game I played was one of the PS2 titles in like 2005
Legacy of Goku 2 and buus fury are both great though

Not him but when's the last time you've watched GT? I did last year just because I thought "how bad can it be", and I wasn't prepared for how fucking DULL the show is. The parts that are trying to be Dragonball fail to be funny and quirky, and the parts that try to be Z have no good fights. There is one decent fight (Goku vs Nuova Shenron and by extension Goku and Nuova Shenron vs Eis Shenron), but aside from that they're just plain bad. And it's just filled with subpar writing and terrible animation the whole way through.

Why'd it have to shit bros?

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Don't forget the best name in the series:
>Milky Cannon!!!!

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I loved this game, even though the translation shit itself.

god this really was the worst case of Bamco/Spike
>draw up the idea for a super cinematic fighter
>reshade models like manga
>people eat it up because of a last minute create-a-character reveal
>combat is LITERALLY dictated by whoever rock-paper-scissors the hardest, can't even deflect beams if you don't have the ki
>the ki blast-teleport glitch got turned into an actual gap closer mechanic because they couldn't think of anything better
massive disappointment, at least the OST was good.
youtube.com/watch?v=s52uCLlrWiw

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It's a glorified rock paper scissors simulator with less depth than the mobile games.

He's only retarded in the DBS anime because it airs on Sunday morning in Japan. He's made dumber because DBS is a literal children's anime. DBS Broly, thenlast two DBZ movies, and the DBS manga feature a more mature Goku since they pander to a wider audience than Japanese school kids. If the DBS anime were to return in a different timeslot, then expect Goku to behave differently.

god what the fuck were they thinking. it looks amazing, but it doesn't have BT gameplay. Idiots.

The whole Ginyu squad is named after diary products, so that at least fits.

>have your fans vote on the name
>slip one option with "tenkaichi" in there
>it wins by a landslide
>still dont get the memo on fans wanting a true BT4/RB3

I'll reply to you because you're a Gotenkschad. Yeah, Vegito lost on purpose because he needed to save Goten, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo from inside Super Buu. He didn't want to risk them being completely erased as parts of Super Buu if he won.

>massive disappointment, at least the OST was good.
Agreed.
youtu.be/HbIUpHJenws

>when's the last time you've watched GT?
Some time before BoG to get caught up with all of DB at the time

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This. Why the fuck did it not play in a similar style to BT/RB?

he flew against piccolo and raditz he didn't fly going to king kai because there was no rush

The Baby arc was the lowest point in ratings the entire DB franchise has ever been, and for good reason because it's pretty terrible.

He learned Bukujutsu before the 23rd world tournament. It's literally the big linchpin that allowed him to win was that he was hiding that he could fly the whole time. So yes he COULD'VE flown, but he wasn't very good at it at this point.

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Even Burst Limit gameplay would've been better.

I always saw the justification as "he can fly, but at that point the nimbus moved faster"

Is another game like Sagas possible?

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>RADITZ
>BORN ON A MONDAY
>SHIPPED OUT ON A TUESDAY
>TAIL GRABBED ON WEDNESDAY
>VIOLENTLY PENETRATED ON THURSDAY
>NOT BURIED ON FRIDAY
>NOT WISHED BACK ON SATURDAY
>COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN BY SUNDAY

You're already seeing it, user. I'm proud.

Scuffed game, tons of fun playing coop with my bro.

yeah that's why he used it back on earth and when he saved gohan

Me too.
Fighterz had to add GT Goku

If you ever told me in a vaccuum that the guy we're looking at here is supposed to be Goku I'd call you a filthy liar.
Also I love how this is pulling double duty of not only shilling the Gallick gun, a move Vegeta hasn't used since the goddamn saiyan saga, but also doing a great job of not looking a fucking thing like it.

How many times have Nozawa and co. recorded early DBZ stuff now?

Yeah he just didn't have the raw power t traverse a planet by his own power. Of course by the end of the Freeza saga he does just that in a moment's time. Pour Somersault cloud. I bet it misses being usefull. Now it just sits in Goku's attic next to the Nyoibo and his tail.

I'm not. I love DB but I can only play through the Saiyan and Frieza saga so many fucking times. It's why I liked FighterZ because at the very least it went for an original story.

I'm still fucking mad. The worst part is, he has enough Kid Goku in him that I really want him. But he's so COMPLETELY GT Goku I'd just get bad paying $5 for him. It's such a mixed bag.

This is the biggest thing.

>Main character is actually a dumbass that just gets his powers without even working for them

Yeah its totally good if you can relate to a lazy retard

The art style looks a bit like Shintani's, looks like DB is doing something good now.

This honestly looks to me like they wanted to make another Dragonball Xenoverse type game but since they've done that so many times that people are sick of it they decided to market it as an "RPG" which just results in more of the same but this time we put numbers coming off of opponents when they get hit so that makes it an RPG I guess. I mean it looks fine, but calling it an RPG is like calling xenoverse an RPG. I mean it's technically true but I don't know why you'd market it like that.

I mean, Luffy's powers suck, on their own. Being made out of rubber is a shitty power if you don't know how to use it, as we see with the flashbacks of him as a kid. It just results in stretch limbs, tripping over yourself and having limited control of your movement. I mean Spiderman got his powers by accident and no one's shitting on him for it.

>replying to bait
Don't encourage them.

because spiderman isn't as boring as luffy he literally is just a dumbass retard

Problem is. The game is most certainly only going up to the end of Frieza.

Mexican Reconquista soon. Choo choo. The train has no brakes.
youtube.com/watch?v=7o3ZMomtw-M
hooktube.com/watch?v=7o3ZMomtw-M

>1. Gohan is a disappointment

at least its a realistic game

I'm surprised that nowadays there's a lot of games dubbed in mexico and latin america in general, including some based on anime like Naruto and Saint Seiya, yet modern Dragon Ball games never got that treatment.

This can be applied to Jiren too you dumb fucking idiot

>Masako already beat ya to it
Not going to watch it, but I'm sure he ripped off Break Through the Limit.

>even I don't know what this is

Kinnikuman

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Only Americans don't like GT because they got a shitty dub
Watch the Canadian version it's awesome

Absolutely one likes GT, not even Japan, that's the one thing most of the world can actually agree with americans regarding Dragon Ball.

Name 10

What?!?
I have to play as fucking Goku instead of my own custom created character?
What the ever loving fuck

mexicans love GT

>mexicans
>people

elige uno, paco

Only the stupid ones
>inb4 that's all of them
Yes, probably

Are you retarded, user?

Yuri on Ice

>a return to Z

motherfucker Z is all we’ve been getting since the dawn of time. its people like you who will never allow this franchise to move forward, fuck you.

Saint Seiya
If you ignore everything but the original story

>DBZ action adventure game following the standard sagas
I couldn't give less of a shit if I tried, and I've bought a stupid amount of DBZ games over the years

Only Dragonball game I played is Revenge of King Piccolo so this will pretty much pick up where I left off
hahahaha suck it losers

Good. That's the end of Goku's character arc and as close to kino as Z ever gets.

the first fat buu fight was the end of his character arc where he rightfully wanted the next, living generation to take over and stop relying on dead people. Then the fans cried and he's regressed ever since

Frieza is insanely popular in Japan, I swear I saw more frieza merchandise there than Goku
Frieza plates, frieza shirts, frieza trash bins. I'm not even joking. Look at this shit, why does it exist?

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hes fucking dumber than he was as a kid now

>Dragon Ball gets 5000 games retelling the same story over and over
>most other series can't even get a game, let alone a good one
I hate it

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they're actually starting to not like Goku as much anymore, they're all turning into Friezafags, thanks to Super mainly.

i don't want it to move forward, honestly, it should've stopped at cell.

I didn't say ANYTHING piccolo related there for some reason, and hardly any Vegeta. Seems like Frieza is the most popular character with Goku behind him.

Make the other series you want an international phenomenon, that may help them.

Based Kinnikubro.

The biggest issue is that fucking Cyberconnect 2 are developing it, but there's ZERO trace of their trademark balls to the walls animation

That's the thing they are good at. They can't make good gameplay, their entire gimmick is fucking fantastic animation. See webm and these

youtu.be/fclqwb0Wysw?t=35
youtube.com/watch?v=y-PudD1UrvU

So where the fuck is it?

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I really wish Asura's Wrath wasn't a videogame.

I wish I could buy FighterZ season 2 pass again. I don't even play the game anymore, but I would buy it all over again just to see rosterfags seeth again.

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>Cyberconnect 2
They really should just make a new .Hack//

dragon ball games really get the short end of the stick when it comes to animation.

FighterZ is the only good looking DB game

>1. Gohan is a disappointment
Only because Hackiyama made him that way
>Manga sales peaked during the Cell Games Saga
>TV ratings peaked during Great Saiyaman Saga
Gohan was a draw

It makes me sad how much Bandai Namco hates Dragon Ball and yet love GT. The Xenoverse DLC was just an omen, then when they chose GT Goku over Kid Goku that just confirmed it

One of the only good things from GT. I’ve always liked this design

his character arc ended at Cell, too bad i can't say the same thing about Dragon Ball itself.

Holy shit, I looked it up and you weren't lying.
But everyone always says that Gohan wasn't popular, why did they lie?

Piccolo+Gohan = best dad & son duo

Gohan was set up to be stronger than Goku. Something something kindness is the real strength.

>Japan hates GT
>Despite that it was initially supposed to end on Baby, but it got renewed due to it's popularity
>Despite Dragon Ball Heroes leaning heavily on GT content, to this day
>Despite 2 out of 4 of Dokkan Battle's anniversaries being GT themed
[X] Doubt

superfags hate the cell arc for some reason, they're really vocal on twitter and shit

how many times have you watched Goku turn Super Saiyan and fight Freeza on an exploding Planet Namek now in your entire life

i can't even count that

Finally some good fucking post.

that's like counting how many breads I've had

I don't care. It's part of what manliness is.

fucking loser

I am fine with this because the LoG1 was a piece of shit and this is the 3d version of that.

Piccolo dies. But everyone else can be saved, to die against Freeza with one attack that is.

imagine bowlcut gohan turning super saiyan on namek, that sounds fun

>complaining about a retelling when we had nothing but what-if garbage for years
don't play it if you don't like it

Super Goku Den 2 had some fucking insane divergence possibilities
Like Gohan being raised by the Saiyans and destroying Earth in one of the bad ends
Freeza managing to get immortality in another
And so on

most of the what-if stuff they pick sucks honestly

WFT!? I love Nappa now.

fucking cuckgeta, got based bald bro killed for no reason.

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we had whatif shit since ultimate tenkaichi
they can't fuck up a fucking retelling unlike the garbage that is db heroes

It's Jump Force-tier combat.

db heroes is the most retarded shit i've ever seen, recently gohan went super saiyan 4 out of nowhere, for the second time, kek.

>That Gokuden 2 for the SNES where if Piccolo fails to kill Raditz but kills Goku, Gohan will murderer Piccolo and join the saiyans to destroy Earth because he goes crazy

They could take ideas from that game. I wouldnt be surprised if SS Gohan was an option since that game had a lot of different endings

xenoverse picked the most boring what-ifs, that game sounds a lot better in terms of that

thats exactly why you can't let namco do their own shit
they need to be hold on a fucking leash otherwise they do dumb shit

Going full retarded is kind of its charm.

>that ending where Tenshinhan kills himself to trap Piccolo Jr with the Mafuba because Tenshinhan knew who Piccolo was just by looking

Hell, I tried to look at a list of the different endings but it seems nobody bother with that. That thing of being forced to restart the game from the 23rd tournament every time you reach an ending really sucks, especially around the namek part.

I stopped playing X2 before those updates with new story mode, but the base story of that game was boring as fuck, pretty generic.

When the fuck are we going to get a modern game like the best DB game there is: Budokai 3. Just give me solid 2.5D fighting, basic RPG elements, a nice fat roster and the usual DBZ story all in 1080p and 60fps and I'll be happy.

>The manga
>The colored version of the manga
>In the anime at least three times in two different dubs
>Budokai 1
>Legacy of Goku
>Xenoverse 1
>Xenoverse 2
>Fighter Z
>Teach's streams
Too many goddamn times honestly

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The game would suck because no Yamamoto music.

there's probably a listing for it in Japanese, they tend to be pretty obsessive about this shit themselves
it's a shame it hasn't aged all that well but around the middle of the PS1 era in emulators the game was still impressive

No, seriously. Tell me how Raditz, Goku's brother, is not memorable?

But you can play as fucking 17, EVEN WHEN HES ALREADY IN THE GAME, and a million goku forms

I just want a DQ Builders type game but in DB universe

Arcsys tried to pander to Super when fans wanted OG DB, movies, GT reps too.
The funny part is that Raditz was in that 3DS arcsys and people thought he would be in Season 1 for that reason. I hope he is the next game though, as Roshi and Mr.Satan

>smug Krillin

Why he had to change? That Charlie Brown design was the best

Death is a humbling experience.

And I'll be disappointed again when there won't be a hole in the both of them.

so........arena fighter again?

First off, him being Goku's brother comes up so little it's understandable if you just forget it, like the fact that Vegeta has a brother or Bulma has a sister. Secondly, because the battle against him only lasts a few chapters and ends with him dying and basically never getting mentioned in the series again.
He is memorable for being our introduction to the concept of saiyans and him appealing to Goku to save him before betraying him. He's memorable for his hair and his iconic saiyan armor and for kidnapping Gohan. He's memorable for indirectly causing goku's first death. But his fighting style and techniques themselves...on the whole are pretty unmemorable. And his role in the story is just sorta glossed over in hindsight. I'm not saying I dislike him or even don't enjoy the fight. But in the grand scheme of things he's not a character that's super interesting in terms of a fighting game.

how come the portable dragon ball games are always filled with love? ultimate butouden has one of the most ambitious ds games around and Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu's fury were amazing

>pander to Super
Super was still the newest thing when the game was released, of course there would be characters from it, but even then the base roster only has 2 characters exclusive from it (3 if you want to count Beerus), and honestly if you made me choose between any of them or Raditz, I would choose them. Would gladly replace any of the extra Gokus with him though.
In any case, it was obvious there would be more from other stuff as dlc unless you were a canonfag, though as much as I dislike GT, there clearly were more interesting choices from there than small Goku, mainly Shinron.

He wasn't. People only like him because of his Sunday to Saturday ice cream beams in the games.

>Replace Goku's clone with Raditz
people still do this
>Goku
>goku super sajajn (Kuririn muerto)
>goku hermano
>goku negro (rosado)
and so on and so forth, i still would like to see Raditz, He is Goku's bro after all he deserves something

Boku no Pico's better than Yaoi on Ice.

Seems like you remember him, user. Techniques and fighting style mean nothing with everything else youv'e mentioned other than not knowing Double Sunday. "Raditz is not memorable" is a fucking joke. He really is because he kickstarts the rest of Dragon Ball Z.

That's like saying the marvel universe is more influential than Dragonball.

Obviously, it's a entire universe of stories, but Gundam doesn't have a single overarching story as good as Dragonball.

Plebs, Legend of the Blue Wolves is where it's at.

>People only like him because of his Sunday to Saturday ice cream beams in the games
nice implication faggots. got any facts to back that up?

I can't find a single character in One Piece that is cool. Everyone is drawn goofy, talks goofy, and not a single aspect is cooler than "He wields 3 swords, isn't he cool?"

All of that would be forgivable, but the worst part of One Piece is that it doesn't have a single villain who's intimidating. When you try to make a Giraffe scary, you're wasting your time. At least with Dragonball you supposed to laugh when Vegeta humilates a clown, you're not supposed to take those characters seriously and they aren't a serious threat either.

Mihawk is a fucking badass. From his introduction he is known as someone you shouldn't fuck with.

>but Gundam doesn't have a single overarching story as good as Dragonball
I'm a fan of both franchises, but the original Gundam series, most of the Universal Century, and everything related to Amuro Ray are easily a better story than the whole of Dragon Ball.

I didn't really care for the Origins games, myself. Advanced Adventure was kino as fuck, though.

I was thinking of Season 1 with Super/BoG/RoF which leads to Blue Goku, Blue Vegeta, Beerus, Black, Hit, Zamasu, Vegito Blue(fuck Blue), Ranger 17, then Jiren, new Broly and Gogeta Blue(again fuck Blue)
Base Goku and Saiyan Vegeta should have been left for a revision or a later season. Blue Goku and Vegeta had to be fucking installs like Golden Freeza or Ultimate Gohan.
So yeah, I would rather have first some other characters like Raditz, Roshi, Mr.Satan, Janemba, SS4 rep, Omega Shenron or the 4th star, Pikkon to give more variety to the game. I even wanted OG Kid Goku at first, but then there were too many Gokus for only 2 seasons which made me think Arcsys would leave him for later, but no, it had to be the GT rep of all things.

You must be a young gun, I played Budokai 1-3, Legacy of Goku 1-3, and Budokai Tenkaichi 1-3. Im good little homie.

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G Gundam exists.

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Cirno is my friend!

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That episode was great.

Mihawk, Enel, Crocodile. People like Big Mom, Kaido, BB, Whitebeard, Shanks and Kizaru are the type that you mess with their mood you are fucked and you may forget if they look or sound goofy.

9 is mai waifu

Well my main argument was that he wasn't a good pick for fighterz. And I still think he wouldn't be.

Some early villains like Kuro or Arlong looked threatening enough too.

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He has as many techniques and skills as anyone else, user.

Smaller scale, more dev time, more concentrated dev team. I wish we just got that 3d Legacy Of Goku that they were gonna release alongside the GBA version.

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I mean G Gundam was my favorite Gundam anime, but stop bullshiting user.

G Gundam is shounen to the max and I love it

It's hilarious how people are eating this "Dragon Ball going back to it's roots" shit up. For starters, Goku didn't even know how to fly when he fought Raditz.

Forgot about Arlong. Arlong was just insane against humans but a bro to his crew. Kuro seemed fine until he snapped because his crew was a piece of shit, except for Jango.
Alvida was also crazy for the common person

He did, but that was a time that flying would waste energy for him and it would be faster to use the nimbus.

Arlong was the point of if you didn't like One Piece at his defeat then you never will. His antagonism should spark a fire in you.

Read the fucking thread dumbass.

It's hilarious how people don't know dragon ball history and act like they know what they're talking about. For starters Goku knew how to fly when he fought Raditz.

I dunno how you guys aren't pissed about this. Revisiting the Z series up to probably the Cell Games is the equivalent to going back to Green Hill Zone. It's so played out and boring.

Sagas didn't deserve the hate it got. It was a buggy mess, but it had some neat original ideas and had some fun moments.

He didn't fly around the whole fucking time against Raditz like shown in the trailer and mostly he stayed on the ground.

Green Hill Zone being a starting area is more than fun,

speak for yourself, super arcs were awful

What did I even think when clicking on this thread

I know what you mean. For me it was Usopp arc, everything from the speeches, Usopp telling stories to Kaya, Going Merry and "what are you talking about? just get in already"

Good man, Usopp, even if he is portrayed as a coward, is the epitome of manliness and Oda knows it.